Thank you for all of the support everyone. I want to reevaluate my points on the weapon wheel segment. I feel I was too harsh and dismissive in regards to the mechanic so expect a separate short video where I go over it again.
@darkslayer5079
2 жыл бұрын
For those of you unaware: Dante in DMC5 has around 150 completely separate moves that ALL can be accessed at any moment thanks to the his Style Switching and weapon switching mechanic.
@motivatedbyvergildantenero2315
2 жыл бұрын
Dfook that's amazing I'm curious about how much Dante has in DMC3 though that game has a lot of potential when in freestyle.
@cobaltordinaire5219
2 жыл бұрын
*and pro players use at least 70% of said moves*
@johnfkennedyinanopentopcar8976
10 ай бұрын
What the shit that's 105 moves
@silentsmokeNIN
8 ай бұрын
@cobaltordinaire5219 so true. I consider myself a dante pro, at least comparatively to what I've seen on youtube, and I can confirm lol. I know all of his moves andI have used all of his moves, but never in a single session. I'll play for whole month and be like, "oh yeah I forget to use that anymore." Lmfao.
@devilmaqim
6 ай бұрын
@@silentsmokeNINhow, i use just 20/30 or 40 Dante moves lol
@greatsploosh8069
2 жыл бұрын
I never knew this was even an issue, I was under the impression that the whole point of style switching was to give you all the tools you need at any moment. It's way too fun and unique of a mechanic and shouldn't be removed. That being said, you brought up a good point with dmc4 that I never noticed before where most of your key moves are on the style button.
@randomt800kiddo2
2 жыл бұрын
same here, people just love complaining that they can't essentially sleep with a sword and wake up a samurai lol
@jf_paes1589
2 жыл бұрын
These people probably would love if DMC dropped the lock-on+directional controls for dial-a-combos. They would have all their moves accessible on just the melee button, even if to get the desired move they want, they'd have to input a 4~5 button combination.
@theysaidimasian9766
2 жыл бұрын
just people complaing they cant pull off those donguri moves as they please
@hwanniggles187
2 жыл бұрын
@@theysaidimasian9766 thats stupid. that man has like over 2000 hours on the game. of course he has mastered the skill of style switching
@chsi5420
2 жыл бұрын
New people yell the loudest, like you said, most people hop into these games thinking that should be able to pull off donguri combos without any prior training, it can take years of playthroughs in order to even get a feel with certain characters, especially Dante, due to his insane kit which is even further expanded in 5. Once you get good at style switching mid combo, you still have to option select what you'd want to do next.
@absolstoryoffiction6615
2 жыл бұрын
I've only master Rebellion and Ivory & Ebony in DMC5 with Style Switching. Vergil and Nero on the hand... Are much easier to master in hind sight. V?... ... ... It feels random sometimes, even though it isn't. Since it's based on the positioning of his summons.
@2slowpoke929
2 жыл бұрын
@@absolstoryoffiction6615 Huh I can't hear you over -AWAKEN THE NIGHTMARE- *SSSSSS* RANK the sound of my V mastery!!
@junior1388666
2 жыл бұрын
I've been playing since dmc1 and style switch is very uncomfortable to me. Maybe bc I play on Xbox. Idk if a ps4 pad would make it better
@EBKDanteMustDie
2 жыл бұрын
i love style switching and wish dmc3 switch would have been released on ps4 from the jump. however 1 thing dmc3 and 4 were missing was the void from dmc5. that limited the room for practice in previous games especially since each game has different weapons.
@absolstoryoffiction6615
2 жыл бұрын
@@EBKDanteMustDie DMC3 originally was supposed to have Style Switching but the PlayStation hardware at the time couldn't handle it.
@HikaruBaskerville
2 жыл бұрын
I never would’ve thought this was such a talking point till now. I always saw switching as it’s own art form with how a lot of players use it. And having tried a lot of stuff myself, it’s a lot of fun~
@Picmanreborn
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah I thought everyone loved it. I think they have to be trolling
@ЛюбенИванов-ш7ц
2 жыл бұрын
its not..only people who complain are the band wagon dudes. I can just make DMC 5 Dante into DMC3 Dante and go with my day. Those dudes complain for the sake of it
@HikaruBaskerville
2 жыл бұрын
@@ЛюбенИванов-ш7ц so they’re bitches and incels. Got it
@Acyris
2 жыл бұрын
Style-switching just might be my favorite gameplay mechanic in any game ever. I'm a huge fan of customization in video games. That's why I loved styles when Dante was able to customize his playstyle back in DMC3, but part of me has always wanted the ability to freely switch between them at any time. I skipped DMC4 as I only had a PC and PS2 at the time, so it wasn't until DMC5 that I was able to experience style-switching. Man, did it not disappoint. What I love about it the most is the amount of gameplay variety that it offers on-the-fly. Most games with a customization aspect require tedious menu navigation before you can change your playstyle. Style-switching allows one to play to their strengths and overcome weaknesses without breaking the flow of the game. The individual styles already offer great utility on their own, but being able to switch between them at any time increases that potential exponentially. It makes Dante extremely powerful and versatile without resorting to simple stat boosts. Combine that with an arsenal of destruction, and you've got the most overpowered Swiss Army knife ever.
@JustGency
2 жыл бұрын
DMC4 is on PC, though. Hell, special edition's only actually new content were the new characters, everything else were features that already existed exclusively on PC in the original.
@Acyris
2 жыл бұрын
@@JustGency Let me rephrase. At the time, I had a very weak PC that barely ran any games. It wasn't until 2017 that I could afford a new PC, and DMC4 wasn't at the top of my list back then.
@morgannyan2738
2 жыл бұрын
@@Acyris I could run DMC 4 on my shitty laptop from 2007, how can a PC not do it for you?
@Acyris
2 жыл бұрын
@@morgannyan2738 I don't remember specifics, but the bottom line is I didn't go out of my way just to play DMC4 at the time.
@EBKDanteMustDie
2 жыл бұрын
i liked lighting in dissidia nt because she reminded me of Dante how she can switch between magic and melee. Too bad there was barely any single player content and definitely not offline vs mode.
@keitafowler7626
2 жыл бұрын
As a relatively new DMC player, I never would've thought that people would find a way to criticize style switching. I remember how insane it felt to play DMC4 Dante and realize I can use any style at any time, that blew my mind
@Mechablizz
2 жыл бұрын
When I finally got to Dante in my first and only DMC game (DMC5) I thought that style switching was the coolest but the most daunting thing. Yet, I was excited to spend hours in the void getting slowly better and opening up new possibilities through nothing but my skill alone. It's truly a feeling I may never forget.
@morgannyan2738
2 жыл бұрын
Nothing is perfect, maybe play the other games to find out why people criticize style switching.
@absolstoryoffiction6615
2 жыл бұрын
@@morgannyan2738 Not really... DMC1 had Menu Swapping. DMC2 had none of weapon swapping beyond Alternate Weapons. DMC3 was limited by the hardware at the time, when it originally was supposed to have Style Switching. DMC4, DmC, and DMC5 are the full fledged ideas about Style Switching. In the end, players are complaining over nothing. They should play Nero instead. He's a more traditional action character.
@riatorex8722
2 жыл бұрын
It's because the fans can never be satisfied with anything
@riatorex8722
2 жыл бұрын
@@morgannyan2738 No. I've played the other games and I still enjoy being able to switch styles on-the-fly
@ReZoura
2 жыл бұрын
This video blew me away. It’s all factual. I want to say I was one of those people that never knew anything about the mechanics of DMC & how complex it is. Chasertech educated me when I tried arguing a point that had no weight to it. He is one of many amazing combo artists out there that can teach you so much.
@Revolthell
2 жыл бұрын
You know during DMC5's reveal and release aside from all the stupid stuff you did you never gave me credit for all the DMC5 NYCC 2018 stuff you reuploaded as well right: kzitem.info/news/bejne/zqeLto55jaqoqY4 It was never your "game skill" we complained about, it was your character and refusal to own up to stuff. Please keep continuing to be better!
@ReZoura
2 жыл бұрын
@@Revolthell I will gladly give you credit buddy!
@ReZoura
2 жыл бұрын
@@Revolthell your channel name is in the description & pinned comment on the video. Let me know if there are any other videos that you’d like me to give you credit on.
@armedweiss5531
2 жыл бұрын
I feel like the combo mad videos made by the community over the years has given a good chunk of series newcomers an unrealistic expectation of these games. These games have a lot of systems to master and if you're gonna become a master, you have to put in the time to figure out how these games click. Just jumping in expecting to get those insane triple S combos all the time is just setting yourself up for failure, just progressing at your own pace is all that should really be needed. Style switching is just another system that needs to be taken into account for 4, 5, and the switch port of 3
@ChaserTech
2 жыл бұрын
I 100% agree with this. People really expect to learn combos all willy nilly when it takes time to do so. Lmao I wish people learned more on taking their time with getting better at these games tbh.
@jofelchristianbasilio3982
2 жыл бұрын
@@ChaserTech Because all of the people complaining about this wants the game to hold their hand while in reality games like DMC require some skill to be effective. There are just some games where you need use your brain to play, the game doesn’t need to change it’s identity to accommodate the player the player need to find a game that suits their own needs. Devil may cry is basically an action game with fighting game inputs the combat is meant to be stylish and Dante is the poster boy of the franchise his style system sums up the gameplay also the players complaining want all of Dante’s moves to be with Dante instead of his styles the flaw with that solution is that’s the thing that they’re whining about they’re mad that Dante is too hard but if you take his styles away then you would have to memorize all the button combinations to do each move his styles make it easier to remember.
@blackeva1
Жыл бұрын
The Combo Mad video's often have rebinded inputs from their styles, to put less used things like DT/SDT on the D-Pad, and they practice/plan them out for hours/days, so yeah, its 'very' unrealistic for regular/new players to try and replicate them.
@JKamron-1
2 жыл бұрын
It's weird how accessibility and optimization is a hot topic for the DMC community given how open-ended the base game asks its player base to be. On top of what the game deems as successfully understanding the mechanics, like how orb count plays a role in how well you rank or how different enemies can weigh and thus be juggled. I never knew this was such a big issue.
@OliverKlozzofff
2 жыл бұрын
Had no idea this was a topic even up for debate in the fanbase. The amount of variables you have through style switching and all of the different devil arms is what makes Dante in 4, 5, and modded 3 such an engaging character to control and mess around with. Reaching mastery or even basic competence of that depth is really satisfying. Why would anyone wanna do away with it?
@irvingchr8357
2 жыл бұрын
I don't think that those people are considered "fans". I mean, if you really like DMC games, style switching wouldn't be a problem to talk about 🤷🏻♂️.
@absolstoryoffiction6615
2 жыл бұрын
Remember that DMC3 was supposed to have Style Switching if the hardware at the time, wasn't limited.
@jinxact532
2 жыл бұрын
@@absolstoryoffiction6615 the switch port has style switching until today I didn't know style switching was a issue I thought it was awsome 4 was my first game but j mostly played swordsman it took me 100 years tk beat dmc3 cuz I only stuck with one style j enyoed jt nonetheless in 5 I got combo heavy and and spent hundreds of hours to just get good with dante I'm only 15 so take that as u will but the dmc series has been one of favorites and unpopular oppninon 2 isn't that bad actually
@OniLink977
2 жыл бұрын
Style Switching is in the Nintendo Switch port too
@absolstoryoffiction6615
2 жыл бұрын
@@OniLink977 DMC3 Style Switching is Switch exclusive. You'll need a Mod for the other platforms/PC.
@dragonwell7747
2 жыл бұрын
Personally, I find switching weapons (or styles) as central mechanics to games really cool cause of the rhythm element they introduce to a game. At least that’s how I view their implementation. Somewhat related to DMC, DOOM ETERNAL and ULTRAKILL reward you for switching weapons often, with the former even requiring you to do so. I can see how „being forced“ to switch could be unsatisfactory to some, but personally I feel it adds another layer of depth to a game that gets you into a flow state quicker.
@absolstoryoffiction6615
2 жыл бұрын
Always remember... You can beat DMC5 with just Stinger on Dante's part. The complaints have no merit since it's a failure to understand these kinds of games. Like those who think From Soft should add an easy mode to Elden Ring.
@WaifuRuns
2 жыл бұрын
Fantastic video chaser love to see this kind of content for dmc
@riatorex8722
2 жыл бұрын
Eyy didn't expect to see you here
@hughjanus8922
2 жыл бұрын
I suck at DMC combos, but it feels good to learn even one combo that resembles a pro move. People just like to be rewarded without any hard work.
@absolstoryoffiction6615
2 жыл бұрын
That's the jist of it... They don't deserve what they don't even try to do. A hollow victory from a worthless effort. The ironic thing is... This isn't even about Accessibility, so that excuse is dead in the water. But I suppose no effort is effort to those who fail and cannot stand back up...
@kin4386
2 жыл бұрын
It takes a hell of a long time to get used to, but once you do, you'll be styling without trying. And that's.. Kind of the point. These games aren't meant to be easily accessible to newcomers. It's meant to be difficult to learn. That's why pulling off sick combos feels so rewarding. Because it feels like you've earned it through learning the combat. That's why it's one of my favourite games.
@vadandrumist1670
2 жыл бұрын
I would say these games actually are meant to be easily accessible to newcomers, but its more of an "easy to learn, hard to master" situation. After all you don't need to be a style-switching pro to beat the game even on higher difficulties, you'll just not be getting the the best scores.
@kin4386
2 жыл бұрын
@@vadandrumist1670 Nah. I would definitely say that for the majority it's very hard to learn. There are always exceptions, but for the most part the unique movement and combo schemes of DMC have always been difficult to get used to. You can always see that when watching new players pick it up for the first time. Jumping around missing combos and not knowing how to start or end combos. That's how basically everyone starts out.
@vadandrumist1670
2 жыл бұрын
@@kin4386 I think we're just operating under different standards of "learned" then, since what you said can apply to players that beat the game on normal and higher difficulties while still making those mistakes. Even if they're completely incapable of switching styles/weapons mid-combo they can still have learned the basics. You don't even need to style or weapon switch at all, and it's that which makes DMC easily accessible. The skill ceiling for making the most of the game's functions is high, but the skill floor for just being able to play the game is low.
@kin4386
2 жыл бұрын
@@vadandrumist1670 Not really. These games have always been difficult in terms of actually defeating tough enemies for newcomers too. Especially 3.
@vadandrumist1670
2 жыл бұрын
@@kin4386 Difficult, yes, but nothing newcomers can't adapt to, and once again not difficult to the point where you need to be particularly skilled in many of the game's functions to surpass. Ironic that you bring up DMC3 though as that game didn't even have style switching originally.
@tamizaki6724
2 жыл бұрын
To me style switching is what makes Dante so fun and yes even if he didn’t have style switching he would still be fun but it adds so many different ways to play Dante and you feel so free while you are playing as him and me being a console player I hope that they add breaker switching to Nero into the next DMC game if it ever happens because he gets so repetitive at points
@fefega
2 жыл бұрын
As a relatively new DMC fan, as in, just played DMC5 for the first time this month. Dante's style switching is fucken sick, I wish more games would do it. You could only so so much moves with a single attack button, adding another + the directional pad is a smart move.
@synysterdawn8913
2 жыл бұрын
I honestly don't get it when people say that DMC doesn't have a dedicated dodge button when jumping has invincibility frames, and you can jump as often as you like whenever you like.
@Ze_N00B
Жыл бұрын
My only problem with style switching is the under-utilisation of it. Imagine a weapon who's properties changed when you switched styles. Like a sword that turns into a great sword when you use Royalguard and has attacks that use the gauge, and turns into a dagger when you use trickster, letting you perform speedy attacks to combo with the style's trick action, or turns into a spear with gunslinger, giving you longer ranged stabs. The summon swords in 5 are my favorite addition simply because of their properties change with your selected style, giving the style keys more use than just changing what your trick action does.
@Halaa_
2 жыл бұрын
DMC is incredible because of the freedom and flexibility of the characters. I couldn't possibly imagine thinking to myself that the game should have LESS options. If you want an action game with a limited moveset there are plenty of games out there.
@TheBatosai
2 жыл бұрын
I've been a massive fan of DMC series since 1 on PS2. I never heard of these style complaints lmao. Silly Billy, they just need some motivation to learn there's nothing wrong with being stylish 😎
@riatorex8722
2 жыл бұрын
Because the so-called "fans" will always find something to rant about
@darkslayer5079
2 жыл бұрын
Regarding the topic of weapon wheel, I would not be against its implementation in the game ONLY IF it was something optional that you can turn on and off in the options menu. I feel that for newcomers of the series and players with disabilities who might find going through the entirety of Dante's arsenal just to select a single weapon it might seem as a hindrance and a detriment, but as far as advanced players are concerned, it is the most consistent way to play the game at the pace with usually engage with. So, I believe there's an argument for it being there, but NOT at the cost of being a feature you have to put up with and drag the pro players down. Someone also mentioned the option of assigning/customizing different inputs to the skills you have, which I think could be a nice addition and wouldn't affect the way in how top players play. Any thoughts on that?
@absolstoryoffiction6615
2 жыл бұрын
Full Controller/Key Board & Mouse customization is fine... But sadly... Players will still complain for their own incompetence...
@ZX3000GT1
2 жыл бұрын
Not everything has to be catered to the newcomer/disabled though. There are other games to play, don't stick to 1 and then complain.
@beelzemalle
2 жыл бұрын
Great video. I think the barrier to entry got lowered significantly in DMC5 (e.g. with Dante's Air Taunt) , which is honestly a great thing. However in DMC4 it is completely understandable for a first time player to find so many tools of Dante locked behind styles to be extremely jarring. I did too! I think they streamlined the weapons too much in the transition from 3 to 4, like you said, because they wanted to incentivise people to actual switch styles and not stick with just one they like, as many players did in DMC3 back then. That however isn't a fault of the system, but of its implementation as you already stated.
@Revolthell
2 жыл бұрын
Agreed with regards to rose taunt it's such an important tool that having it on a universal function makes life so much easier for people.
@Zero0mtk
2 жыл бұрын
I think the other issue probably is that the first stage you play as Dante in DMC4 has the more annoying puzzles and mob enemies, making the adjustment extra jarring. I mean, even after playing DMC3 like crazy, the first stage of Dante felt very punishing haha
@GuntanksInSpace
2 жыл бұрын
Definitely my experience in a sense. I was so used to just sticking to a style that when 4 dropped the "okay you got ALL THE STYLES NOW" when Dante came to play, shit was very jarring indeed!
@obijuankenobi3814
Жыл бұрын
The two main problems of style switching imo fall into these 2 categories 1) How accessible is it for new players? 2) How are they balanced in terms of between each other and against enemies? So for that first question, I think DMC3 with style switching mod shows how the games should be balanced for Dante's styles. Where each style can be used by itself to 100% beat the game, you aren't even forced to swap styles and no enemy or boss in the game is biased against certain styles. Every part of the game was designed in that way, so when you add style switching on top of that, you don't feel like you're nerfing yourself, you just open up a huge amount of gameplay possibilities. DMC4 however, target nerfed all the styles to compensate for style switching being implemented. What this resulted in is a FORCED style switching for players, which makes the game not nearly as accessible to new players. New players should be allowed to stick to 1 style to effectively play the character, and then as they play and get used to it, expand their repertoire with new styles. The DEFAULT balance position should be 1 style, that prevents this problem. Then for the second question, you can't let a certain style become more or less powerful than the others. Every style should be equally balanced when compared to each other with equal pros and cons. Royal guard has immense damage, power, and survivability with the trade off of requiring precise timing and close range. Gunslinger has long range moves with multiple enemy target abilities and charging guns and such with the trade off of doing lower damage to melee attacks. Swordmaster is the same just with vice versa power, more powerful melee with less powerful guns. Trickster keeps you at a basic moveset but allows you a lot of mobility and safe dodging. Each has pluses and negatives but none of them should be specifically better or worse than each other. This allows players to pick a style they like, focus on learning that style, and not feel like they're "nerfing" themselves because they chose a specific one. The balance of this is very hard to do, but I think they did a fantastic job with it in DMC5 tbh. Every style feels great, they all fit their purpose, and none of them feel like a clear cut winner or loser. DMC4 however definitely showed this imbalance. Royal guard and Gunslinger were 100% less powerful than Swordmaster and Trickster. Royal guard felt unfinished with dreadnaught and chip damage on normal blocks and taking forever to charge the royal meter, and gunslinger moves either just did no damage or were very niche examples like Pandora's missile battery.
@barombolobombolo1501
Жыл бұрын
Nah
@hanstelgotto8549
2 жыл бұрын
Massive clickbait, I didn't see Todd Howard once in this video
@Revolthell
2 жыл бұрын
This video fucking said everything I've also ever wanted to say, and the way you articulate all the comparisions and seeing the footage actually together weaves such a strong argument. Personally I do feel if some people really benefitted from no Dpad use they can use custom setup not only on Steam but in later PS5 and Xbox One consoles now. Hope this great video just a first in the way to come!
@_Rndom
2 жыл бұрын
I'm new to the dmc series and I really enjoy style switching in 5, it's so unbelievably fun and even though I'm not that good, learning style switching to a certain degree made Dante my favorite character to play as especially when I'm in the flow zone
@Questar_Valdamar
2 жыл бұрын
Hey guys? If y'all are having trouble staying airborne, E&I have always been amazing tools for remaining skybound. Rainstorm in DMC 5 and, to some extent, 4, is our mightiest successor to Air Raid. I know 4 has the flying missile battery on Pandora, but f*ck the flying missile battery. Also, Cerberus' Aerial spin attack (lock on forward attack) is the stairway to heaven. Easiest JC in the series. Balrogs aerial punch is also easy to JC and makes you look like a dbz character. You can even bounce between punches and kicks for increased style here
@EinDose
2 жыл бұрын
The problem with styles in DMC3 is that only one style has a tool as basic and essential as 'the dodge move'. Experimenting with different styles was absolutely terrible because of it; the thing you have to give up is so baseline essential for gameplay, especially if you're doing something like, say, learning a new gameplay style. It's actually a big reason I liked DMC3 the least out of all the PS2 DMCs; it felt like it was actively depriving me of potential fun by giving me tools that I can't use without taking away something I need to even have a chance of surviving. Style switching fixes that problem as much as it reasonably could while making sure the moveset isn't overly complex. I'm fine with it.
@classicslayer456
2 жыл бұрын
I really wish they kept the the wall run and surfing on the demons mechanic in the later games.
@motivatedbyvergildantenero2315
2 жыл бұрын
So you like DMC2 better than DMC3? or is it removed by default?
@EinDose
2 жыл бұрын
@@motivatedbyvergildantenero2315 you won't believe me, but I genuinely did prefer 2 to 3. (1 was better than both though.) I find comparing them kinda weird, though. I'd describe 1 and 2 as 'doing their best at being a thing that isn't fully realized yet'. There just weren't really action games like that before, and they hadn't fully realized how much of that old Resident Evil skeleton should be shed yet. So it's kinda hard to dock them points for not being better than what they are, they were basically sailing uncharted seas. Hell, DMC2 started work before DMC1 was even finished, so a lot of its orphaned ideas were literally implemented blind; they didn't know what people liked about DMC yet. That nascent finding their way has an appeal of its own, there's some unrefined gems there; DMC1 basically feels like an early Resident Evil with action combat instead of survival horror elements, and I love it as that. But DMC3 instead comes in at the point where the genre is starting to solidify, so its mistakes actually DO feel like they were within the devs' power to avoid. At that point not only were the previous DMCs in the wild, but imitators and competitors were, too; they should've been able to recognize things like 'the dodge move is pretty indispensible'. Basically, I enjoy DMC1 and 2 for what they are, and what they are isn't quite a character action game yet. But DMC3 is undeniably a character action game... and it's pretty bad at it.
@motivatedbyvergildantenero2315
2 жыл бұрын
@@EinDose I disagree about DMC3 being a bad action game, but at the same time I respect your opinion no one should bash anyone for enjoying another game more than the other considering I can relate a bit since Dark Souls 2 is my favorite in the Dark Souls trilogy yet it's the most hated game in the fanbase of fromsoft.
@ElseeKay
2 жыл бұрын
the thing about switching to dpad and joystick to access moves : outside of movement and inputting command moves, you don't use the joystick very much. let me give an example. your ground combo for melee weapons is mash the attack button or the sword masteer button. the entire time you're mashing/holding/delaying the attack button you can't do any movement, meaning you aren't using the joystick. this opens your thumb to A) use the joystick to input a command move (back-forward or 360) or B) hit a style switch. in the case where you DID use your left thumb to input the command move, you generally have no left thumb options to go into directly after. you can't do hightime into stinger, you can't do stinger into hightime, you can't do stinger into normal combo. you need SOMETHING in between to link those moves together. it might be guns, it might be jump, you might be put into an aerial combo situation in which case you get access to jump cancel to give you your link. all that to say, your left thumb is completely fucking free to swap styles, just stop gripping your controller like you're trying to squeeze style points out of a sponge. for those saying you don't have immediate access to style moves when you have to style swap, you've literally not touched styles have you? let's say you're in swordmaster and you want to royalguard something, how would you go about blocking that thing? if you chose stop what you're doing, swap to RG and then wait for the attack to come at you, how about we squish those commands together and cut out the waiting : hit RG style and the style button at the SAME time. i know, insane concept here, hitting two buttons at the same time instead of one after the other. so pray tell, where in between mashing attack and hitting style PLUS style-button did we not have access to royal guard? what about trickster? we want to trick up out of gunslinger. jesus christ did you just hit d-pad up while shooting then forward + style at the SAME time. isn't that fucking illegal or something? what about prop shredder? i'm stuck in royal guard! oh my god he's hitting left on the dpad and style while not moving the joystick. what if i want to royal release out of swordmaster : let's use the buffer system and hit back-forward > move our thumb all the way an inch to the left > hit d-pad down + style. oh my god royal release came out and half of the shit we did with our left thumb we did in swordmaster how could this even be possible my mind is expanding at a rate in which my health is in danger. in short, it's a skill issue. if you're constantly attacking, then you aren't using your left thumb for much movement, in fact your default movement in combat should be d-pad up > up+style or d-pad up+style, since if you are using your legs to move around you're not in a situation where you need to style switch. if you want to complain about something, it's how the joystick for camera is on the same side as attacking. it's an important skill to put enemies you aren't hitting off screen by rotation the camera so they don't attack you (also accomplished by going up into the air). (secretly a reason M+KBD is the best control scheme) how about complaining about how swapping through weapons requires memorizing the order you yourself put the weapons in and mashing through that order with your gun/sword swap buttons (it's annoying but how about you start slow and use 2 weapons, and build up to 3 then 4).
@karurosu4121
2 жыл бұрын
as someone who started with 5 i legit fell in love with dantes gameplay. i adore how nice it feels and i did some pretty slick combos for a beginner. i consider dantes moveset as one of my favorite gameplays in videogames just because of how fun it is
@phobos5323
2 жыл бұрын
This video was a treat and I agree 100%. The problem is not style switching but the idea that you need to actively switch styles. This was a perception that was somewhat reinforced by DMC4, but couldn't be less the case with DMC5. There's no situation in DMC5 where you're going to be required to be in one style, just some in which one style is going to be better or worse, and you'll have to adjust if you want to use it. That last part isn't an afterthought though, it's the whole point of styles. They're extra abilities that let you play in a specific way you enjoy; ergo "styles." That's why they don't have their own separate button and why no character besides Dante has them. People get confused because they're very unique functionally, but when you look at things more deeply, that's not so much the case. Neither the styles nor the weapons are designed randomly and they all consider what all of them can do so that you'll never be truly out of options with any given loadout. Combining styles in quick and complex ways is a result of a player's prowess with Dante, but that doesn't mean it's the intended way to play the character. No two people play Dante (or any DMC character for that matter) in the same way, though we all abide by the same rules; and that's why we like this series, that's why even seeing inexperienced players can be engaging. Given that, it only follows that one could refuse to switch styles, or weapons, or only switch to certain things, and still be proficient with the character. And indeed playing that way may be more challenging or more interesting given the situation. Lastly, I want to say that no control scheme or game is "perfect." Like any other human creation, they make concessions that are inherent to what they're trying to achieve. Sure, it'd be nice if I could swing a hammer with my mind, but I would likely need more effort to set that up than to just use my arm, so for the time being, hammers are going to keep having handles. If I occasionally hit my finger while trying to nail something, that won't mean hammers are poorly designed. Similarly, style switching works well given the game that it's in and what it's meant to do. Looking at things in a vacuum, there might be a control scheme that could allow you to do some things with less inputs, but it's hard to call it better simply because it would result in a completely different Dante. And if you don't believe me, you should try checking out this one guy called Nero.
@malafakka8530
Жыл бұрын
Sounds somewhat similar to when people complain about Fromsoft games not having an easy mode (although there are options that make those games easier except for Sekiro). This isn't about the difficulty, of course, but about games adapting to them instead of them adapting to/learning the game. I am not good with Dante at all and it sometimes seems that I will never be able to become even remotely decent at playing with him, but that is mostly just a question of time and effort. And effort is it's own reward, which many people don't seem to understand. I mean, if you don't have the time nor the patience to become good enough then that's unfortunate, but don't blame the game for that. It's not as if you cannot find something else that is better suited to your circumstances. Games who have their own philosophy and identity should be praised and not criticized in that regard.
@riatorex8722
2 жыл бұрын
My first ever DMC game was 5, so I do suppose that I have my biases when it comes to style switching. But now that I've played through all of them (minus 2), I still don't see why people disliked the system so much. It gives room for more flexible, streamlined moves that's hard to pull off, but extremely satisfying once you mastered it. I swear, man, people will somehow always find something to complain about
@vul4ak
2 жыл бұрын
If you want a more concrete example of why movement inputs on guns is not a good enough solution - look no further than Trish in DMC4:SE For the game to discern between you moving and shooting or inputting a direction move for a Pandora attack there's a slight delay during which you have to hold the direction and the shoot buttons. What ends up is that if you do not buffer it out of something, you always have this empty time, during which Trish just fires a single gunshot before executing the move. Is it the end of the world? No. For casual play you'll barely notice it. But it just ends up being slightly janky. Oh and if you wanna talk real accessibility and I mean real proper actual "I can play this game now" accessibility - just include a Game speed option that SLOWS down the game and I am not even kidding. That was already a staple of strategy games in the 2000s exactly because devs knew commanding multiple units takes time to learn how to do it properly. If you can have turbo to speed the game up just for funsies, you can also slow it down just for funsies. Here's an actual example: Using the DDMK mod by Serpentiem you can both increase and decrease the speed of the game. Try decreasing the speed of DMC4 from 1.0 to 0.9 or 0.8 even. Now all of a sudden executing a Guardfly becomes doable without having to break your fingers and learning how to do it becomes a question of first learning the inputs and then learning how to do them fast enough, instead of both at the same time.
@absolstoryoffiction6615
2 жыл бұрын
After the players beat the game on the intended difficulties... Let no road be paved those who cannot stand back up. Otherwise... Is Human Difficulty too hard for people???
@Maitreya-7777
2 ай бұрын
I love style switching in game just by pressing a button and Dante yelling the name of style chosen. I am glad I don't play DMC games on a Console. I play all games on PC which makes it easy for me to play games and switch styles. I have played games on consoles and I can tell you that the buttons are so less on controller that even mathematical concept of permutations and Combinations will fail.
@NotEnder
2 жыл бұрын
I always think how people fall into the trap of how style switching is bad (even I thought reboot's more streamlined controls were better) because its complicated at face value but never realized that this is pretty much the most streamlined controls AND it gives the most options, all it takes is just some time to learn it and all it took me was playing Dante for around a week and I was already comfortable switching between his styles on the fly, and just like you said in 4 its like a trial by fire as players are handed all of his styles instantly and those inexperienced with DMCs combat will lack the flow necessary for seamless switching and out of that frustration they blame the game (not everyone but I definitely got frustrated with it) In the end, style switching is pretty much like learning anything in DMC, and that is Patience and Practice makes perfect
@thatitalianlameguy2235
2 жыл бұрын
They aren't streamlined at all. Holding one button to use a certain weapon SEEMS more streamlined, until you realize YOU STILL HAVE TO SWITCH WEAPONS ON THE DPAD SO THE AWKWARD CLAW GRIP DOESN'T GO AWAY. or else you can only use three of your weapons at a time
@NotEnder
2 жыл бұрын
@@thatitalianlameguy2235 I consider it more streamlined because most of the time the access to those 3 weapons is enough and you will be mostly switching between aquila and osiris, also you dont need to claw in DmC as there is only one type of directional attack and its only for a stinger-like attack and most attacks lock on by themselves (you can also push the stick towards the enemy to assist the auto lock on though you dont need to do this when youre already mid-combo/switching weapons), so the awkward claw grip DOES go away
@absolstoryoffiction6615
2 жыл бұрын
@@thatitalianlameguy2235 Not really... DmC is rather old fashion if you want to know how outdated It's design decision was. And it cuts your options by 2/3rds. Unlike DMC5 where your finger isn't stuck to R1 or L1 just to use a weapon. Granted, DMC4 has an equal problems because counter clock wise cycling doesn't exist for Dante (if I remember). Unlike for Vergil in DMC4.
@kelvingarrido7298
2 жыл бұрын
ignoring the fact that removing style switching would mean you’d literally need extra combo inputs to do the simplest thing on the planet…. its extremely efficient, and even tho i dont grind dmc and just play it casually id rather have style switching then needing to go into an inventory or go into a different screen, or need to use combo inputs like its a fighting game just to pull of a simple action in game
@desudesudesudesudesudesu
3 ай бұрын
i like style switching but one thing that felt pretty bad was how nerfed a lot of the style moves were in DMC4 to accomodate for it, it felt bad for casuals
@AegisKHAOS
2 жыл бұрын
Count me as one of several people who didn't even know this was a controversy. After DMC3, I was happy that Dante had access to all of his styles and, though difficult to learn, thought nothing of it otherwise. I didn't know there were people actually complaining about this, though perhaps I shouldn't be surprised.
@flipsvstheworld
2 жыл бұрын
Did not think you would ever come back to talking about DMC related topics. Hell, I did not even know the community had issues and bad takes with style switching. Tbf, I "left" the community years back because all I found was the same 2 crappy memes, pointless drama from casual reddit players, or from "pros" getting into piss spats over who truly is skilled and godlike. But, on the topic of the video, it was very interesting to hear and even see what some people tried to do differently. Even though their intentions were misguided, made it worse, or simply wrong. Your explanation, and your own beliefs on what issues are actually there, for commands and inputs come off solid and reasonable enough to believe. Good shit, Chaser.
@ChaserTech
2 жыл бұрын
Oh nah I'm not done with DMC. I maybe finished with tutorials but there's tons I wanna talk about for DMC in general.
@theftking
2 жыл бұрын
This was really interesting! I gotta say though: anyone who suggests that some specific grip is _required_ to play Dante is full of it. Sure, you _do_ need to employ that next-level stuff to be competitive in over-the-top combo videos, but with enough dedication, _anyone_ can beat any DMD mode/etc as Dante with a normal grip. _Nothing_ in any of the games is so unforgiving that players don't have time to lift their thumb off the stick for a second to switch back to Trickster. Are weird grips necessary to be competitive at the highest level? Yes. However, that level of play simply isn't necessary to S-rank the game, and it isn't representative of the vast majority of DMC players. Most of us aren't even playing the game game as the really-godlike players. Just look at DMC4 inertia; it's one of the most critical mechanics to hardcore players, yet 99% of casuals will complete the game without ever even noticing it exists.
@nelln8245
2 жыл бұрын
It's usually unskilled players who complain about style switching. People who understand the game's mechanics know that style switching is basically irreplaceable, unless you create a controller with 50 buttons that's easy to use.
@JonathanRiverafrickinnice555
2 жыл бұрын
DMC5 Dante doesn't feel hard when it comes to style switching cuz all his styles feel like complete movesets so early on you don feel like you have to switch very often. EDIT: 16:37 ONWARD IS EVERYTHING I MEAN. IF YOU TAKE NOTHING ELSE AWAY TAKE THIS AWAY.
@JetblackJay
2 жыл бұрын
The only problem with Dmc on Xbox is taunting is a little harder it's easier on Playstation especially ps4 and ps5 using the pad for taunts
@ChaserTech
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah I agree with that. Lol When I was playing with an Xbox controller, it felt really weird to taunt. But in PS5 it's so much easier.
@FortuneKOF
2 жыл бұрын
i don't think there is anything wrong with style switching per se, i will say the amount of Dante's Options though are a bit overwhelming and intimidating when it comes to his combos and movement options but eventually i'll get to dante but i am having a lot of fun with vergil haha.
@ChaserTech
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah dude Dante's not going anywhere lol. Seriously just take your time to learn him. Hell, just stick to one style if you need to. Dante can be played however you want so there's no real reason to try to learn everything.
@jeremy123577
2 жыл бұрын
I do agree with this and i think that way o enjoy reboot dante gameplay a bit more because it take some of dante basic moves and simply them and yet you can still have that ability to style how you want to plus they dmc gave you the option to start one combo with one weapon mid combo and finish this another is something I would like capom to being back
@FortuneKOF
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, the Beautiful thing about all of this. DMC is not pvp focused so i am not required to dump so much of my time and energy into rushing to get good with him. as you said, i can take my time and that is what i will do!
@Lin_Eileen
2 жыл бұрын
@@FortuneKOF Have fun!
@dejectedraven5592
2 жыл бұрын
I think the biggest hurdle for a lot ppl is that if they want to play peak Dante they may have to change the controls to use all of his abilities effectively. I taught myself how to claw so I could use the d-pad on the fly and even then I put lock-on on R2/RB, Sword Cycle on Circle/B and Style on R1/RT but the players that don't usually claw have make crazy input adjustments ,especially for 5 since there's so much holding down buttons and such. Its a struggle for sure but I'd still say it's more noob friendly in this game than 4.
@XXNemesisXXXX
2 жыл бұрын
Someone complained about style switching? Sounds like GameFAQs alright. I would have no issue playing with a Xbox pad if the d-pad wasn't garbage. Good job calling out Dark Souls as well because I claw to play without lock-on there yet I don't claw for DMC at all. Those control re-designs really made me laugh. Why not spend that time learning the layout or just not playing Dante in general? xD Having more command inputs on analog seems complicated to do, it's not a 2D fighting game after all and even with those you know how many people still complain about the shoryuken input... No comments on the weapon wheel....lol. Regarding "a dedicated dodge button", it's been the same since the very first game... jump.
@Run-Riot
2 жыл бұрын
Honestly at this point, anyone who wants to get rid of style switching or forcing whatever changes should probably just go back to playing Soulsborne games, games with 2 attack buttons, or whatever the hell Ninja Theory's next game will be and just watch DMC cutscenes on KZitem. Because Devil May Cry is clearly not what they're looking for. DMC is about giving you options, not taking them away. Also, I wanna know what drugs the guy in the comments saying that Nero is easier and simpler than V is on, because it sounds like he's on the real good designer shit.
@TypicallyUniqueOfficial
Жыл бұрын
Idk why it’s such a hot topic lol. It’s been praised since DMC3, and allows you to have the maximum amount of moves possible without having to open a screen and switching the style (like in DMC3). People bitching about it just aren’t good at the game.
@fuckhead0
2 жыл бұрын
anyone who asks for dante to have all his moves available without style switching simply isn't grasping the sheer overwhelming amout of inputs dante has, clear and cut
@mranchovy6003
9 ай бұрын
Late comment, but some poeple are really asking for that? thats ridiculous, DMC would turn into piano simulator
@GUNDAMSTARX
2 жыл бұрын
Absolutely SSS video. I am glad that DMC 5 Dante feels like the best of 3 and 4. The game gives you the option to play however you'd like. On my first playthrough, I played it like DMC 3 to learn the systems and weapons. The next playthrough went more like DMC4, with me using everything at my disposal. Once again, great video.
@SionBarzad15
2 жыл бұрын
Me, a passerby who has only played ever played DMC4, casually, unaware this was a point contention: Alright, you've convinced me.
@thejoyfuldragon887
2 жыл бұрын
i do think it's bad game design that royal guard isn't a single button press but everything else I'm fine with, really. It was more of a problem with DMC4 where you basically had to spam style switching and the moves were extremely fast so there was less time to do everything but in DMC5 the gameplay is a bit slower so style switching is much easier.
@saltandpepper_js
5 ай бұрын
3:43 this. This is the main thing about the DMC Games. People have an idea that the DMC games have a very steep learning curve and that getting to a "good" level takes years and years of effort. I can't speak for everybody, but it was certainly the case for me. DMC meant being very fast and smooth with your actions and buttons. It's kinda like Instagram fitness posts; it's not the majority of people, but if that's all you see, you feel like that's the general baseline. Either way, I started playing with the reboot, because it had simpler controls. I played that game, had a great time, and wanted some more DMC in my life. I took the plunge with DMC3, and after some time with the mainline games (DMC3 and DMC4), I understand that everybody doesn't _have_ to be an absolute combo demon. Everybody doesn't have to be a Jump Cancel master. It's just like any other game; if you're not a casual player, it's sufficient to have a good grip on your weapons and styles and being efficient with your tools. That is quite enough
@espurrseyes42
2 жыл бұрын
It was bad. in 3 and 3SE. When you couldn't actually switch your Styles on the fly and could only switch them by going to a statue. Not to mention certain boss fights being a pain in the ass without a specific Style (good luck dodging Beowulf's feather volley without Lv3 Royal Guard). That and the two bonus Styles, Quicksilver and Doppelganger, not being proper Styles, and just being a singular moves that rob you of one of various halves of Dante's moveset from his proper Styles. Not saying they're bad, but they aren't nearly as depthful as the main 4 and are kinda boring as a result (less of an issue in the ONE version of the game that allows manual switching, even using those Bonus Styles, but I'd still like it if they had proper movesets).
@M.G.F427
6 ай бұрын
As a new player to the series, Style Switching is amazing imo, I didn't use it that much in dmc 3-4, but now that I'm going for all the achievements in DMC5 I've come to use style Switching quite a lot and I love it, it's dynamic and let you do more moves.
@blindtreeman8052
2 жыл бұрын
I hate to be that guy, but......... skill issue, cope harder. but for real tho, i always just thought that style switching was the one thing that made dmc's combat as unique as it was. sure stye switching only makes up half(or a third) of the modern games' combat, but it was definitely one of the main things that helped the game stand out. also feels like something the devs were really proud of making, since they added in some absurd game modes that pump HP up by a fuckton, essentially giving the player a bunch of punching bags to test combos out on.
@Wazzen563
2 жыл бұрын
@1:21 lmao, gotta love it when people claim something is bad game design when they've clearly never done any game design in their life. It's just mental gymnastics to rationalize entitlement & being bad at the game. The purpose of style switching is so obvious that I'm astounded some people can't see it: there are physically not enough buttons on a controller to accommodate Dante's full movelist while keeping things reasonable & intuitive. In order to make things fit, they would have to use every possible input permutation whether it made intuitive sense or not, and the end result would feel like a jumbled mess. Even if there were enough buttons, it would still feel like a jumbled mess; just look at the few PC games out there that use the entire keyboard for their inputs. The worst part of all of this is that it doesn't give game designers their due respect. These people are professionals with years, if not *decades*, of experience, and these wannabes complaining on the internet think they know better than them? Game designers spend extended periods of time conceptualizing, testing, & iterating control schemes *countless* times until they eventually settle on something that best fits a game's vision while simultaneously working around concerns related to mechanics design, peripherals, hardware, and user-friendliness. This situation is the equivalent of gun hobbyists looking down on military special forces.
@DoritoGOD2811
2 жыл бұрын
I agree with the sentiment that 4's issue with style switching really stems from the limited moveset of Dante's weapons. But I also think that it has a lot to do with how a player will compare it to Nero's gameplay. A new player will see that Nero can do an aerial combo and helmbreaker with one button, and then when they get to Dante and he needs an additional input to be able to do the same they get confused and complain.
@ChaserTech
2 жыл бұрын
Lol that totally slipped my mind. I forgot all about that.
@absolstoryoffiction6615
2 жыл бұрын
Fighting games: "That's a new player, alright."
@soybajo-kira8585
2 жыл бұрын
I claw grip the controller because I’m weird and find myself claw gripping the controller in almost every game I play even if it’s not a DMC game
@len1802
10 ай бұрын
I didn't knew that Style Switch mechanic was this kind of topic in community, I know it's hard to get used to changing styles while playing, and that people would prefer to only stay in one until they get used to, but saying "bad design" I think it's going far
@B3N_Youtube
2 жыл бұрын
OK, who’s making stupid opinions this time? Honestly whoever thinks that style switching is bad is missing the picture behind the gameplay of a DMC. Let alone playing is Dante
@ryanspencer9602
5 ай бұрын
I personally feel like every style should *enhance* a type of gameplay, rather than forcing you to use a style if you want access to a meaningful moveset. Dmc5 does this well, because all the swordmaster moves feel supplemental rather than necessary. Gunslinger is the same to a lesser extent.
@Root4BeerFloats
2 жыл бұрын
Saw you talking about this over Twitter. So glad you spoke up over it
@AstralMuffin105
2 жыл бұрын
I'm kinda shocked that people ever actually thought it was bad, lol. It's such a fun and unique mechanic. I get that it can be overwhelming at first, but with enough practice, you can do a lot of cool shit!
@AfterlifeGames
9 ай бұрын
This analysis was absolutely incredible. Brilliantly executed. The part where you detail how heavily other games rely on the D-pad was something I hadn't put enough thought into. I haven't changed my mind about Style Switching, but now I can definitely approach the subject with a more open mind. After all, if you're not willing to try and disprove your own position, your argument is worthless. And that's actually the thing that impressed me about this video the most: You don't have a problem with seeing things from someone else's perspective. That's the kinda attitude that makes me say, "Hey. Pay attention to this guy. He's got something to say." This video is Smokin' Sexy Style. All day. 🔥🔥🔥
@bluerose585NC
2 жыл бұрын
Ok I will completely agree that style switching and how they did the style switching is perfect, now for holding down buttons for styles I will admit I play d5nte with most of my styles on the triggers, like u said everyone is different I guess I just don't like having to switch styles with the d pad, in DmC I switch weapons with the d pad so it became second nature in dmc5 for dante, love the different outlooks and topics in this video, a really good way to give people knowledge and a lil insight to what controller set ups and options that r out there much love brotha 💙 LONG LIVE STYLE SWITCHING 😉
@greyalbert9529
2 жыл бұрын
Eh...I'll take it or leave it dsd has shown that you dont need to be in a different style to take advantage of most of the weapons moveset and I feel that you can do the same With some of the guns
@petwisk2012
2 жыл бұрын
I see the same general problem when people try tô find confortable solutions for playing DOOM ETERNAL on a Controller, but at the End of The Day or we get used tô It or Just get a elite controller with 4 back buttons that stay in a more confortable position for style switching Also the same problem happen tô me with the weapon whell in DOOM ETERNAL as i was trying to learn Quick Switch using It, some guys like D3adK3y makes It seen só natural but i just cant get used to It, God Bless Keyboard shortcuts
@absolstoryoffiction6615
2 жыл бұрын
It's a high skill gap... Like Dark Souls... Not every player will achieve motivation.
@LazyJesse
2 жыл бұрын
Ever since the placement of thumb sticks on the front we've been limited by having to switch between the sticks and front buttons. I'm surprised that years after the PS2/Xbox the general masses are seeing the problem with this and releasing third party controllers with buttons on the bottom of the controller. I'm even more surprised that this isn't implemented in the newest first party PS5/Xbox Series X|S controllers. (besides the PS4 back button attachment, remember that?)
@_dekr0306
2 жыл бұрын
IMO, control scheme is just personal preference, consistence practice make one feel comfortable with the control scheme and develop second nature on it. Dead a** I had nearly 600 hrs on reboot, 400 hr on 4, 200 + on 5, and 100 hr on 3, all of them are played with keyboard. There were few times I picked up PS4 to play as Dante since there were some techs I think controller might have better execution. I would say it felt rather strange and unfamiliar instead of ranting about the control scheme in the initial place when I first time used the dpad. After few hour messing around, I could already did some stuff like air star rave (not the consecutive star raves), sky star into rainstorm and regular launching combo that needs sword master and trickster. The most important thing during practice is to analyse important steps in a combo and why / how you make mistake during execution. It will save some time from just brute force trying it again and again until getting the hand of it.
@absolstoryoffiction6615
2 жыл бұрын
I played the DMC games (not the Reboot) back to back before DMC5 launched... And I wouldn't have it any other way. If Dante stayed in his DMC1 state, then he would have been stale really quickly. In comparison to Nero, who is more of a traditional action combat character. Also... There were many moments in DMC3 that I wished I had access to every Style and ever Weapons at once. It's better to open your options than to smash your head against some of DMC3's tough bosses.
@thex8118
2 жыл бұрын
Im using keyboard for dante specifically too, would you recommend switching to controller? I tried it already but clawing felt uncomfortable for me and pressing the dpad took some force. Im asking to see if its worth it to give it another try
@VictorHernandez-vc5zo
2 жыл бұрын
The first time I actually completely went through dmc3 I played the switch version with style switching and full weapon wheel on. Not gonna lie, I have no clue how people loved the game so much without it lol. Imma go through it again the original way, but man it's just crazy to think of how imma play without it. I guess I gotta learn jump cancels better now
@CTStyles31
2 жыл бұрын
Shitters trying to ruin a series by demanding casualization, a tale as old as time.
@CyberWoof
2 жыл бұрын
Great video! I agree with everything you said. I think that Dante's style switching and control scheme as a whole is as good as it's going to get. It's not like it's that bad in the first place though but to get into it: Weapon switching is on the bumpers because it allows you to switch while performing actions and moving. It's also easier to press the triggers repeatedly as opposed to the dpad to cycle more weapons. Style-switching is on the dpad because you don't switch styles as often as you do weapons and when you do switch styles, it only requires one press. I get why some people think Dante's style-switching should be streamlined because it is awkward at first and there's nothing like it. However, there really aren't any better alternative unless Dante's moveset is completely redesigned which is probably not going to happen. I strongly agree with having more inputs on the guns and melee weapons as well. I know this video is about style-switching but I find switching between more than 2 weapons to be a bigger issue so forgive me for slightly changing the subject. It does tie into the "style-switching debate" which is really a "control scheme debate" at the end of the day. The strength of the reboot's (DmC: Devil May Cry) control scheme is that it allows you to switch between 5 weapons within 1-2 button presses at most. Angel Mode (LT) and Demon Mode (RT) allow you to switch weapons just by holding down the triggers, letting go switches back to Rebellion and their secondary weapons can be switched by using the dpad which is similar to style switching in a way. The best thing about this is you can switch the secondary angel or demon weapon while performing other actions therefore allowing to instantly use that weapon when you go into either mode without having to cycle. For example, I'm using Rebellion and I want to switch to Aquilla which is the 2nd slot angel weapon. All I have to do is press left on the dpad to switch to the Aquilla and then hold LT to actually use it. Compare that to the original DMC series where Dante can only cycle one weapon at a time. Every DMC where there are more than 2 weapons makes it hard to pull off specific weapon combos due to being limited to cycle weapons in a specific direction. For example, in DMC4 I could rarely pull off a (Gilgamesh) Killer Bee into a (Rebellion) Aerial Rave because I had to cycle 2 weapons within an extremely short time period. It's not an impossible thing to do but it is extremely difficult. The problem is sorta remedied in DMC5 because you can customize the order and amount of weapons you can carry but there still is a limit to what moves you can tie together fluidly. Ideally I'd love to be able to use every weapon from every game at once but that's impractical. Overall I'm happy with Dante's style switching and controls because my only real limit is myself and not the game.
@NarrowSpark96
2 жыл бұрын
I agree with pretty much everything here, but I also want to bring up the DMC3 freestyle mode weapon wheel. I think a wheel might be able to make handling multiple weapons a bit more effective, but not if it was like DMC3. I think the issues with DMC3 are that you have 5 weapons in a fixed position on the wheel and each weapon isn't limited to a cardinal direction. I think 4 would be the optimal number to choose, one per stick direction, and you could rotate through clockwise if you didn't use the wheel by pressing the button. I could see this working with 5 weapons too, but you'd need to have one be unselected as a center weapon (probably default Rebellion/E&I) and flick the direction of the equipped weapon to unequip. The ability to customize which weapons are assigned where would be a necessity as well. (Although the DMC3 wheel doesn't do this, I should also say that the wheel shouldn't slow time while using it to change weapons.)
@absolstoryoffiction6615
2 жыл бұрын
@@NarrowSpark96 There's a better option... Hold R1 + Input for Devil Arms and Hold L1 + Input for Guns. The analog stick weapon wheel isn't as efficient and the cycle system in DMC4 only worked well with 3 to 4 weapons per bumper input or as a full cycle in the case of Vergil.
@NarrowSpark96
2 жыл бұрын
@@absolstoryoffiction6615 I guess I phrased it poorly, cause that's what I was suggesting. You can still tap to change manually, but you hold and flick a direction to change weapons (or otherwise tap the button to shift like past games). That's also how the DMC3 freestyle mode works too, just weirder cause it has 5 weapons and they go at weird angles.
@CyberWoof
2 жыл бұрын
@@NarrowSpark96 That's a really good idea to have a weapon like Rebellion be the neutral with the other 4 being directional inputs. The weapon wheel is a really good solution especially if it's done better than DMC3's. Like you said, the problem with DMC3's wheel was the weird angles. Sometimes I'd flick the analog stick for a specific weapon only to get the one next to it because I was slightly off. My other issue was how unresponsive the wheel felt. You had to hold the weapon switch button down for like a solid second which is way too long for a game like DMC. Doom Eternal has a setting where you can lower the time it takes to bring up the weapon wheel and that felt way more responsive so it can work in DMC.
@S0dapop583
2 жыл бұрын
Dante’s style switching in dmc 5 is the best ever. Idk how or why people get upset that they need to get upset about using the dpad to switch styles. Especially if there is an option to change settings. People could complain about style switching, but being able to style switch on the fly in combos is one of the coolest feelings to ever have and to end with a sin devil trigger finale. Pure awesome gameplay.
@hunter-yb7zk
2 жыл бұрын
all this is valid but the problem with 80% of gamers is if they can't master a mechanic in 20 min of play it needs to be removed because why have it if it takes time to learn
@darthkahn45
2 жыл бұрын
I HATED post game style switching in 4 The idea should be that you switch without thinking or checking that you happen to be on currently. But if you're on Trickster and you hit up you go into the dumb "4th style" Not having to deal with that in 5 was worth the money on it's own.
@Lin_Eileen
2 жыл бұрын
I liked the idea of a 5th supplementary style that is accessed by hitting the style you are already in. t just made sense to me but to each their own I know a lot of people liked the change to not have that in DMC5 and I have to admit it definitely does take a lot of pressure off when you can mash your style switching so much. I really still wanted to have it though cause of how much i liked the mechanic in 4 and thought it could be so expanded upon the idea of having this secret 5th style that can be easily combo'd with any of your styles because it's just a single button press away regardless of whatever style you are in it can be combo'd nicely cause they all can lead into it. if you learn to control your style switching better and not double-triple press the buttons it can be a very rewarding thing to master but I feel like the expectation is a bit too much for most players. It took me like.... years to actually stop switching to darkslayer by accident on a regular basis. That's just kinda too much. I was really hoping V's cane would go to Dante and he would get to use it as the darkslayer sword maybe with different animations cause it's a cane sword. If they decided to do this in the story and have darkslayer be in the game I think it should have an accessibility setting for people who can't be so precise with style switching or just don't want to which makes it play basically like how DMC5 does now.
@DestinySpider
2 жыл бұрын
I feel you, man. It has a lot of uses in 4, but I fucking hate Darkslayer for how unreliable it makes styleswitching to me. ESPECIALLY since Dimension Slash on the ground, while being a cool attack, takes legitimately 3 seconds and is completely uncancellable, leaving your bare ass open to every enemy around. And if you intend to Teleport or Royal Release, the last thing on the planet that you want is for that 5th style to fuck you up by locking you in place for ages
@DestinySpider
2 жыл бұрын
@Stylish DY.D. It is a skill issue, but at the same time... come on. You train yourself to, when you see an attack incoming, hit bottom d-pad and forward circle. When that becomes your reflex to an incoming attack because you wanna get releases whenever possible, it is really hard to remeber that "Oh, I performed a million stab guardcancel just two seconds ago" and actively supress your reflex to hit bottom d-pad. Definitely doable. But learning that certainly doesn't have anything to do with mashing
@darthkahn45
2 жыл бұрын
@Stylish DY.D. Maybe I'm just a spaz but the muscle memory of hitting a style before a certain move sometimes causes me to hit a style when I'm already on it. And having to constantly hesitate and look at what I'm on to avoid this kind of kills the flow for me. Felt like a wall that prevented me from improving beyond a certain point. A point I've far surpassed since playing Dante in 5. No combo god but now at a point that feels like a natural peak.
@JagoShogun
Жыл бұрын
Casuals: I hate how hard this game's layout is, so let me make it HARDER!
@salsamancer
2 жыл бұрын
I never knew that this was a "controversy", must be very niche even by DMC standards. Nero exists for people who prefer a simpler character. He's tons of fun and you don't need to become a hand contortionist to be great at him. I love that Dante has an insane skill ceiling even though I will probably never spend the time to get really good with him. Trickster style exists for a reason 😂
@alfredksdmc1800
2 жыл бұрын
Incredible video Chaser!
@StaraviaXIII
2 жыл бұрын
wait, people hate style switching? i've literally never heard that opinion until now
@theysayisagorilla
10 ай бұрын
Style switching allows u to be godly. If u cant hang, just say that.
@11FOXHOUND11
2 жыл бұрын
Honestly the only issue I’ve ever had with style switching was the darkslayer select, I could never get used to that lmao
@Run-Riot
2 жыл бұрын
I'd always accidentally fat-finger into Darkslayer in DMC4, lol
@11FOXHOUND11
2 жыл бұрын
@@Run-Riot i have a bad habit of tapping the style I want to use even if I already have it selected, so if I wanna start a combo with prop/shredder I’ll hit swordmaster instinctively and more often than not get Yamato instead. I was so happy to find that not to be the case in dmc5
@Brandon-ip6wl
2 жыл бұрын
great video, i must say, i love playing Dante in DMC5 the most cause he has so many weapons available, and it is easier to play him and come up with combos than dmc4(much easier to stay in the air), in my opinion. in dmc4 im not a huge fan of his weapons. but also something to note, the Switch version of DMC3 has freestyle mode where you do have style switching and the ability to use every single weapon Dante obtains just like dmc5, and you can even bring up a weapon wheel! glad to see DMC content still being created.
@Brandon-ip6wl
2 жыл бұрын
my bad i didnt finish watching before i made the comment about DMC3 on switch LOL it can be fun tho
@OccuredJakub12
2 жыл бұрын
I think my main problem with style switching is that they just canned the way DMC3 did it and made style moves purchisable with red stones. I like the idea of gaining experoence points by actually using the abilities of those styles and unlocking abilities tied to those styles. There's a mod that added style switching to DMC3 and it makes the game infinitely more fun. However, one problem is that it doesn't allow you to pick a favourite style and for that decision to mean anything. Sure, you can stick to one style, but then you're just gimping yourself for no reason. Plus you would want to switch sometimes. If DMC6 ever becomes a thing, then I'd want 3's experience points system with the ability to style switch, but at the statue checkpoints you can pick what your main style is, and that style will gain twice as much exp when used! So you get a main style that you're encouraged to focus on, but also the option to switch. It would help newcomers feel more welcomed to what is admittedly a pretty complex mechanic. Also, I would make style abilities purchaisable in the shop, but make them VERY pricey, so that it's not worth it to do unless you want some very specific move very, very badly. So you're not completely tied to the exp system if you don't enjoy it.
@TalkingRaven_
2 жыл бұрын
All those suggestions would potentially ease players into the whole breadth of combat, however, veterans might dislike it since having an EXP system would mean you get stuck with a limited moveset for a longer time. IMO the downsides far outweigh the positives because they're going to practically alienate their core fanbase of people who love playing with their whole arsenal while catering to newcomers. The change you propose on that 4th paragraph really doesn't think about the other players. Idk about the others but when I play Dante I'm looking to style switch and not just focus on a single style. That kind of double exp idea would practically force players who want to style switch into just using a single style. Atleast in the current system you can still focus on a single style and spend your red orbs on that one to level up first. Picking a "favorite style" should not necessarily have in-game incentives, sure I usually gravitate to Trickster-Swordmaster and that doesn't have to "mean anything". And picking one style isn't gimping yourself for no reason, tbh the game is easy enough to get-by without style switching and it's just up to player choice of if they want to style switch or not. It's a singleplayer game so what if you're "gimping yourself" that's your choice, and the "competitive" side is speedrunning the game in which the best strat is to sit in Royal Guard and Royal Release or Swordmaster Real Impact.
@suitonsuiryudan
2 жыл бұрын
I thought for sure when you said if you wanted something with a dedicated dodge button was to go play DMC2 lol. Anyway great video that also summarized why I didn't like DMC4 Dante's combat as much, because it was that same annoying feeling when Cerberus/Nevan didn't have Air Hike in DMC3. Universal tools and moves in DMC5 was absolutely the best fix, and now it was all a matter of getting good and use to free form combat in DMC5
@miguelmialichi6367
Жыл бұрын
I played dmc5 and i got the other dmcs from a family member as a bday gift And i did not like how i had to pick only one of them for missions in dmc3
@ru_gamerandotaku2431
Жыл бұрын
Yeah unfortunately to get style switching for dmc 3 is to either play on PC with mods or play on switch
@magnodoros7735
2 жыл бұрын
Im surprised people dont like it. Style switching allows for a really high skill cap
@Cloroqx
10 ай бұрын
That was highly informative. Thank you for taking the time to make this video!
@seatbeltpillows8844
2 жыл бұрын
How many buttons do they want on the fuckin controller?
@toomberrebmoot9244
8 ай бұрын
Bro, I suck at style switching, but seeing all those complaints on Reddit and other forums about how “bad” it is just reeks of stubbornness to experiment. Like, DMC3 Switch has style switching and nobody’s complaining about that? Did players not experiment and master DMC3 Dante to his fullest for 3 years before DMC4 came out? Granted, DMC4&5 Dante have a much wackier arsenal than in 3, but the basics shouldn’t be alienating to those who were seasoned with 3.
@JKamron-1
2 жыл бұрын
The weapon wheel was also not the way. I thought it was just me but yeah. I kind of wish the game would just allow Dante to pick and choose which of the 5 guns and devil arms he wanted and press the button to switch in one direction like in DMC4 and DMC5. I personally would not take Nevan, Ceberus, Kalina Ann, or Spiral Anywhere and only stick with to weapons with air hike and the ability to fire in the air.
@absolstoryoffiction6615
2 жыл бұрын
I prefer the "Hold R1 (Devil Arms) or Hold L1 (Guns) + Any Input" way of choosing the weapons. I never liked the Cycle Select Type in DMC4 since I always tapped the bumpers twice, often. The Style Switch is perfect... If only Nero had the same instead of the limitation he has in 5. There are better ways to fully incorporate any character in a DMC style game. Dante and Vergil are the classic ones. Nero needs a few improvements, and V?... ... ... Maybe an overhaul. He feels too random at time. Especially if you're testing him with infinite DT, where his summons begin to attack on their own with minor inputs from the player.
@FiveFingerOutfit
2 жыл бұрын
Thank god, I thought I was going crazy and everyone was suddenly in consensus that style switching is a bad mechanic.
@Thanos5
Жыл бұрын
i thought the way the reboot did it was a pretty good mix although Dante was missing a counter but he at least had all of his styles to a degree in his regular move set and could deflect most attacks in game by just attacking yourself which was a good addition
@KIAFanclup
2 жыл бұрын
Good video bro! I'm really glad you talk about this. Though I understand the frustration the new player has with the control scheme and combat design that it might be too hard,I sometimes wished the developer would lower the complexity down for a bit because I recently played a game that made me feel like I was playing DMC and it was Assault Spy. I think the control was simple to grasp and that it was possible to pull off some combos similar to DMC but easier (with some elements similar to Bayonetta and MGR, but more like DMC with some moves that look identical). If you don't count some glitches and minor issues such as lock-on and trick up-down mechanics or even the vast amounts of input because of the lack of weapons, I believe it is still the game with good control and combat design that I wish Capcom could implement. But, in the end, it was just a choice for the player, and I don't see the issue with switching styles. You can play the game without changing your style and doing the claw at all, and I practiced it until I could do it freely, but the only disadvantage I see is that I have to do the claw grip and injure my own wrist because my thumb wasn't fast enough for guard fly, sky run, or even inertia rave lol.
@Evil4Eyes
2 жыл бұрын
After all these years why the fook people even talking about this? It’s dmc. Go ham or go broke.
@emilianomerendino3311
Жыл бұрын
I've recently played again Devil May Cry 3 on Aethersx2 and, how much I wished sometime for a switch button
@ru_gamerandotaku2431
Жыл бұрын
There's probably a mod for that lol
@RinTohsaka-dn3lp
Ай бұрын
I played it on yuzu and it sucks 😞
@TheSeth256
2 жыл бұрын
The argument against style-switching is dumb asf. When you're a beginner, you should mostly use one or two styles anyway(usually trickster and swordmaster) until you're comfortably performing all the combos these styles allow. When you're advanced enough using the buttons to use all styles is not a problem. The really advanced combos are too difficult anyway for beginners, and you don't need to use them to complete the game even on DMD difficulty.
@TinyRat4
2 жыл бұрын
Dmc 5 is my first dmc game I'm on my 3rd playthrough rn and I find style switching really fun even if I can't do all the cool stuff I see online. coming up with new stuff on my own with different weapons and changing styles mid combo really satisfying
@Zetact_
2 жыл бұрын
"We need to reduce the D-Pad use" * maps Sin Devil Trigger to D-Pad so that you need to constantly be holding down a D-Pad button to Quad S * I got so used to just repeated tapping to get to the weapon I need that for Freestyle DMC3 I just do that.
Пікірлер: 633