I think this goes to reenforce that we need to not judge everything on the same grading scale. Both style have their own perks and uniqueness
@forgottenrelics1197
2 жыл бұрын
exactly
@moosesues8887
2 жыл бұрын
Ninja battles and dogfights, they are hella different
@SteadiedMoney
2 жыл бұрын
Ayo you off a perc too?.
@bwaynetheappal6564
2 жыл бұрын
Dragon ball can still wipe the floor with Naruto
@amuroray9115
2 жыл бұрын
DBZ reuses animation so much more and looks more stiff to me. I say this as someone who grew up on DBZ. No offense to anyone
@DUDEGUY-de4zt
2 жыл бұрын
I feel so emotional thinking of the thought and energy people put into for a 3 second action
@orbboom6119
2 жыл бұрын
Animation truly is one of the peak inventions of human history. Such an ardous task but makes some of the most visually beautiful experiences we can have.
@kubikim
2 жыл бұрын
@@orbboom6119 Boy am I in love. I want to make animation my wife.
@dairyqueenrestaurant8800
2 жыл бұрын
@@orbboom6119 Word!!
@nightlydata2181
2 жыл бұрын
Both styles are hella fitting for their respective shows and this vud shows that. Also smart doin a comparison with DBZ & Naruto to help ease the transition to other series I'm excited for more
@forgottenrelics1197
2 жыл бұрын
Agreed! And yeah I thought it would be a good way to mark the transition, somewhat of a conclusion of Dragon Ball Z's action style while venturing into different series.
@bk-sl8ee
2 жыл бұрын
@@forgottenrelics1197 so your are telling me db can even get better!!!!
@forgottenrelics1197
2 жыл бұрын
@@bk-sl8ee huh?
@Snaggums
2 жыл бұрын
Excellent breakdown of these animation philosophies. As a kid, I was huge into DBZ, but fell out of anime around the time Naruto came around. Later, I discovered some of the fight scenes from Naruto, and was blown away by how fluid the fights were, and how well choreographed everything felt. I couldn't put words to why I thought it looked so cool, I just knew it was different.
@JustAsh001
2 жыл бұрын
Tbh i am at ep 53 of Naruto the animation at this point it not that great compared to what dbz was showing in earlier episodes like the battle with raditz and goku vs vegeta but idk i haven't seen the full series yet but at this point dbz is definitely looking better for me
@aplotholesfiller8827
2 жыл бұрын
@@JustAsh001 Ehhhh, i would say certain points of Naruto are definetly superior to the best animated DBZ moments, the last Zabuza episode, Sasuke vs Orochi or Rock Lee vs Gaara are waaay better animated than most of the DBZ figths. The artwork is usually less polished in Naruto tho, mostly because the desings are more complex, (just compare Goku eyes with Narutos)XD. The two are good tho.
@Ultraoileduptoshi
2 жыл бұрын
@@aplotholesfiller8827 lmao dbz fights are way better the animations in naruto were so bad
@malekat8539
2 жыл бұрын
@@aplotholesfiller8827 how you can say that the character designs are more complex... good lord Animation wise. Can't tell, but It's preference to me there.
@kategutib2772
2 жыл бұрын
i mean cmon now comparing db to naruto?? bro db fights literally is as fast of the speed of light
@hawshimagical
2 жыл бұрын
one thing i really loved about dragon ball animations is the environment. other than land destruction, some cuts would focus on plants, animals, or weather, making things feel atmospheric. a great example of this in naruto shipudden was the infamous naruto vs pain fight. although its criticised for taking the character distortions to the extreme, it really blew me away at how grand and worldly it felt. it tries to be the best of both worlds, and it was actually the first animation that really got me to notice the concept of different animation styles at all.
@trevinodude
2 жыл бұрын
Personally I always thought the more extreme character distortions in the Naruto vs Pain fight truly sold the speed at which they were moving, especially with Pain being more on the defensive and forced to flee more from Nine Tailed powered Naruto’s grasp.
@hawshimagical
2 жыл бұрын
@@trevinodude yeah, such a big difference from the typical character brawl
@HassanAhmed-rf9xr
2 жыл бұрын
@@hawshimagical its so unique im really glad they did that.
@HassanAhmed-rf9xr
2 жыл бұрын
@@trevinodude yeh goes to show how scared pain was. The focus was on the speed in which pain was trying to escape.
@chineseducksauce9085
Жыл бұрын
@@HassanAhmed-rf9xr Pain wasn't scared what are you talking about? 😂
@straightjacket308
2 жыл бұрын
Naruto's fighting styles are hypnotizing while Dragon Ball Z fighting styles really emphasize the weight behind the technique. I do love the detail that goes into the "Flow Animation" though! I honestly can't choose one that's better since both are just as good but also are so different. I can see the force that you referenced to with the Sasuke vs Orochimaru fight! Absolutely beautiful!
@sasukenagashi57
2 жыл бұрын
WHen I was younger I always use to call the highly animated naruto episodes back then "weirdly drawn" episodes because they always were very few and in between and always looked vastly different from the rest of the series. Fucking loved those episodes
@jimbosam
2 жыл бұрын
Glad to see you are venturing into more anime, would love too see more types of these videos. Anyway keep up the amazing content💯💪
@forgottenrelics1197
2 жыл бұрын
More to come!
@jumbojohn890
2 жыл бұрын
Lookin back it seems Masumoto loves animating sasuke gettin beat up
@BIGDEX71
2 жыл бұрын
FINALLY!! An intelligent individual speaks on this subject. A real contrast without all the idiotic power scaling trying to prove who's the greater character when they don't even belong in the same universe. Great video.
@Waqas_Khan02
2 жыл бұрын
I hate these powerscaling video
@IriaChannel
2 жыл бұрын
Always disliked flow school style, but once in awhile it's fun to watch do to the inherent creativity in the approach. I think at times it strays way too far from model sheets and basic anatomy. The kanada school is more my style with its powerful keyframes.. and I feel it worked so well for Dragon Ball because it really emphasized the power of the characters. The animation style really matched the narrative, with things being explosive and hard hitting. As someone who's done combat sports for almost 30 years, we try to purify our technique so that each punch and kick has perfect form, with no slack or slop.. when I watch Goku fighting in Kanada style, it feels like a masterful martial artist who's drilled the same technique thousands of times and perfected it. An interesting thought exercise is to imagine Naruto and Dragon Ball reverse their animation styles. I have a feeling each show would've been less impactful, because the animation styles for each really matched their narratives well.
@tiltedxfn3635
Жыл бұрын
Never read a more factual comment. Props to you, couldn't of said it any better.
@runbaa9285
2 жыл бұрын
I think it's important to distinguish that Naruto, at its core, is a martial arts flick with supernatural elements. Dragon Ball may have started that way, but it has since evolved into a superhero flick with martial arts elements, especially in DBZ and DBS. Naruto sells more on the movements hence the fluidity, while Dragon Ball nowadays sells more on impacts, hence the bombastic nature of it all. If we equate it to a more Westernized example, if there was an anime based around a cosmic-level Marvel characters like Thor or Sentry, Dragon Ball's style of animation would suit it more (I know there was that card anime thing Toei made, but it's really more of a merch-ad type of show). Someone like Spider-Man would probably benefit more from the fluid style of Naruto.
@mechajay3358
2 жыл бұрын
I'll say that Naruto's flow school animations are more unique compared to Z's. Though that doesn't take away from Z's Kanada type of a animation.
@broken75.20
2 жыл бұрын
OG Dragon Ball has a even worse animations than Z.
@Crow-st5rl
2 жыл бұрын
That's because Dbz was made in 90s and Naruto in early 2000. Studio pierrot did a great job at animating the messy Naruto manga. Toei also did good for it's time but when you watch og and z now, it's terrible aside from some scenes and the original music(not that crappy falcouner music). If we're talking about manga only, Og db got better choreography than Naruto, and Z portion of the db manga obliterate's both Naruto and og db in terms choreography, paneling, fight's etc. Db manga is a masterpiece (specially the Z portion) and you should definitely read it.
@philswift8793
2 жыл бұрын
@@Crow-st5rl I was bout to agree but then you dissed falconer music
@Dayz671
2 жыл бұрын
@@Crow-st5rl What Faclouner music is awesome the hell you talking about? That music gave me chills. Especially when Vegeta, came in the final Kamehameha vs cell.
@turkeysgotmorecloutthanyou
2 жыл бұрын
@@Crow-st5rl you’re comment was good until you discredited the faulconer ost, you’re opinion is now invalid
@Lill0fD
2 жыл бұрын
This channel did make me appreciate the Kanada style a bit more than I did before. I am grateful for this, but I am excited to see more Flow School stuff as well, since that's always been more of my favorite form of animation.
@hattoripool1533
2 жыл бұрын
These fight scenes must have been a pain to draw back in the day
@forgottenrelics1197
2 жыл бұрын
Animated fights still are. A lot of the animators mentioned still use paper and pencil.
@aagamer43
2 жыл бұрын
Let’s be honest we both know their still awesome (most of the time)
@craigime
2 жыл бұрын
very nice breakdown... sad to say i don't know many of these anime apart from the well-known ones like akira and yu yu hakusho
@AliHasan-tm9vi
2 жыл бұрын
I am a dragon ball fan but I think Naruto has better animation
@DWD9753-m9z
2 жыл бұрын
When it come to fighting style naruto wins.
@succumbtosorrow
2 жыл бұрын
Naruto is superior hands down
@anlexaify
2 жыл бұрын
I like how this is more of a breakdown of the two different and distinct schools of thought instead of a comparison. Great stuff as always.
@sharingansasuke5
Жыл бұрын
It definitely shows that naruto combat feels *agile* due to the emphasis on fluidity and motions while dragon ball feels *powerful* due to its emphasis on key frames. Fitting for the depiction of ninjas vs raw martial artists in my opinion. Great video again!
@seankkg
2 жыл бұрын
I always liked when the colors got muted and the shading suddenly looked a lot less detailed in Naruto. That probably sounds negative but I actually liked that look. The big action scenes always had that and I thought it looked nicer than the average anime look the other scenes have.
@JoshKaito
2 жыл бұрын
Great video! It's so interesting to see where all the "best fights" people reference come from. Your intro hit me in the Aussie schoolyard nostalgia. I was always more of a DBZ kid and remember even thinking that Naruto ripped off Goku's style when I first saw that orange+blue combo.
@forgottenrelics1197
2 жыл бұрын
I was the exact same haha, Sasuke's blue and white fit as well looked like it was ripped of Vegeta's Buu arc unifrom palette haha
@gkalaitza2183
2 жыл бұрын
Huge props for mentioning Gosenzosama Banbanzai's and Utsunomiya's historical importance in the creation of the "flow" school and the emerging realist approach. Shows some really deep knowledge DB seems in a particular place historocaly where the it couldn't, due to its designs , due to decline of the kanada style and due to the concentration of talent in ovas, emulate a more pure kanada approach like idk Urusei Yatsura .But also the more realist flow approach wasn't mature yet and would be until after YYH. So it had to create it's own visual language in order to keep up interesting presentation by combining some Kanada principles, bunch of dezaki limited animation tricks, some Hokuto no Ken visual language , strong art and line/shadow count and making the best use of each teams talent and focusing on the shots and cuts that really matter. I wonder about something like Shida's krillin vs goku fight in DB 096 tho. If the spacing and timing was a bit less pronounced and more even and it stayed mostly on 2s with some 1s it would have fit perfectly in Naruto style wise. Of course no smears and instead action lines and some looped strikes but still. It feels ahead of the curve for 1988 in regards with distinct choreographed h2h from a wide neutral shot and without quick cuts . Wonder if it was due to some real life action movie influence Shida had at the time or due do some other older scene he saw and was inspired from
@forgottenrelics1197
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks and that's a really great point I didn't consider, also a nice summary of Dragon Ball Z's action! The Kanada style while not dead, was definitely in decline by the time of Dragon Ball Z. What I find ironic is that it's the time period when many of the series' Kanada-style animators were most present. Part of that is just due to timing with Hisada and Tate getting promotions during that period and Cockpit coming on but it's still quite an interesting time period in history for that style to be present. Also, an interesting point about Shida and he definitely popped into my head while writing this because his approach is quite unique. He seems to have that focus on motion like a flow animator, but his way of going about it is quite different of course. I do know one of the animators that inspired him in his early days was Kazuhide Tomonaga, but like many at the time, he too was a Kanada fan and stylistically a world away from Shida. It would definitely be great if one day we could get more info on Shida's influences during that time period :)
@gkalaitza2183
2 жыл бұрын
@@forgottenrelics1197 oh yeah I remember him mentioning Tomonaga on Twitter. And tbh it could actually make sense stylisticaly. Tomonaga was Kanada adjustent mostly in the 70s when they worked together on a bunch of super robot shows and had a friendly rivality. In the 80s and after tomonaga worked a lot with miyazaki on Future Boy Conan ,and on Cagliostro he basically he combined that approach with his own sensibilities. I would assume the work that impacted shida was Tomonogas mostly non Kanada 80s lupin and miyazaki work and most likely also his work in the Galaxy express 999 movies considering their popularity with animators . Other than that I wonder of he was influenced also by people like Takashi Nakamura , Koji Morimoto , shinji otsuka and maybe even Tomonori Kogawa that had their own non kanada energetic approaches and drawing styles in the early and mid 80s that a lot of animators liked. Also one last think is that weirdly I feel modern shida is more kanada adjustent than back then despite the 1s spamming. His effects shapes especially feel solidly in the kanada family and have gotten more angular amd bold
@forgottenrelics1197
2 жыл бұрын
@@gkalaitza2183 I feel like an idiot now haha, as soon as you mentioned Galaxy express 999 Tomoaga's name clicked. From memory, I also do believe it was his work with Miyazaki like on Castle of Cagliostro that inspired Shida so you are definitely right. In regards to his modern work you may have something there, I haven't closely studied Shida's work for some time but I can definitely see the similarities in shape design. But especially in how they take sort of a liquid form in one sense, it's not exact, but the core principal is definitely similar.
@DankMayogetsnogirls
2 жыл бұрын
Yes, I was just thinking of Naruto and DBZ's differing animation philosophies yesterday. Glad you were the man to make an in-depth dissection of them!
@bk-sl8ee
2 жыл бұрын
Same
@shane_edwards
2 жыл бұрын
Goku solos… oh you mean animation wise.. yeah goku still solos
@egganegga
2 жыл бұрын
Can we just be peaceful and says they both have great animation
@shane_edwards
2 жыл бұрын
@@egganegga it’s a joke homie
@Muken385
2 жыл бұрын
@@shane_edwards dbz is below mid
@thelegendarymarioman8461
Жыл бұрын
@@shane_edwards jokes are meant to be funny tho
@HalvoDraws
Жыл бұрын
in terms of how entertaining a fight is to watch for me personally, id have to side with naruto's style of action animation i much prefer the loose yet impactful choreography showing a sense of intensity and speed to their fights keeping the viewer at the edge of their seat as opposed to the more static fight scenes in DBZ
@grantwilliams93
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for not just talking about Norio Matsumoto when you covered naruto. I'd love more naruto videos covering all the sakuga fights throughout.
@broken75.20
2 жыл бұрын
I think i prefer DBZ fights only for this reason. I have never seen an anime show impactful hit as good as DBZ except Hajime No Ippo. I also always loved Repeated frames when used good, for exemple Goku vs Frieza or Goku vs Cell. You add to that the grittiness of the 90's style and amazing Kikuchi soundtrack that i always preferred to Naruto's one, DBZ fight stay on top.
@PokeyMeansBusiness
2 жыл бұрын
I really wish Super was animated the same way as Z. There's been so much lacking in comparison to Z but it should be easier to animate in the digital era
@derekfurst6233
2 жыл бұрын
Hey big fan. Do you think if super returns it could ever use a "flow school" style or is pose-to-pose too big a piece of it's dna
@forgottenrelics1197
2 жыл бұрын
The flexibility of Shintani's designs (assuming he's given that role) would allow for different approaches such as that. So depending on who works on the show you may have little moments which adhere to that school but overall I can't see DB's standard action style going away. Although again depending on the staff list I wouldn't be surprised to see it modified and modernised, such as in DBS Broly.
@mcsonicsimpson
2 жыл бұрын
Oh man, dangerous topic Or at least it used to be, I don't know if kids are still fighting over which one they like more
@forgottenrelics1197
2 жыл бұрын
that it is, just hope people have the patience to watch through before commenting haha
@gohan7926
2 жыл бұрын
In terms of action, choreography is the most important thing in a fight. If you choreograph anything correctly, it looks good. The problem Dragonball has that Naruto avoids is the lack of dynamic posing between impacts. If the lead up to the impact is lacking, then the impact itself lacks weight to the audience. It’s simple Chinese film tactic. Display the before, impact, and follow through. DB is REALLLYYY good at doing one of those things. Naruto is good at doing the before and after, which is what matters more in my opinion. The more fluid the animation, and the less static and reused binational you have, the more the audience feels like they are watching two humans and not action figures.
@forgottenrelics1197
2 жыл бұрын
Partially disagree. I believe what your referring to when you mention "the lead-up" is the animation principle of anticipation. The little compilation at 10:33 is a good example of that at play, so I wouldn't say that is something Dragon Ball was lacking.
@GeteMachine
2 жыл бұрын
Dragonball really goes in and out when it comes to that, Super doesn't do it at all but DB"s best fights are usually when they have good choreography. Like why the SS2 Goku vs Kid Buu fight, was easily better than the SS3 Goku vs Kid Buu fight. Or why SS3 Goku vs Super Janemba was so good. Because the rapid speed of repetitive punches people associate with the series only works in short instances, but when its relied on, thats when fights look bland and feel like they don't go anywhere. Naruto doesnt prioritize super speed, so it always has well mapped out choreography. Especially in fights with Rock Lee or Sasuke. Now Super is pretty much just explosions at the "AATATATATATA" meme.
@TactileTherapy
2 жыл бұрын
@@GeteMachine Dont agree. The kid buu fight is good and has great choreography, but there are plenty of better fights in the series even without having the best choreography. The Freeza vs SSJ fights i believe even highlighted on this channel come to mind. One sequence had the worst art but the fighting and animation was so fast and fluid that the kid buu fight seems to crawl by comparison
@forgottenrelics1197
2 жыл бұрын
@@GeteMachine Nah fights like SSJ2 vs Kid Buu was the exception to the norm, Dragon Ball Z had plentyyy of "ATATATA animation" with a reliance on storyboarding and direction to pull the wait. If you go through Super you'll likewise find nice cheropgraphed fights and plenty of bland ones. I'm really unsure how Super somehow is the one exception. www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/30016 Goku Black/Zamasu vs Goku and Trunks www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/36489 Krillen/18 vs some fox dude www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/24196 Freeza vs Goku www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/47778 Jiren vs UI Goku www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/47783 More of Jiren vs UI Goku
@gohan7926
2 жыл бұрын
@@forgottenrelics1197 Glad you replied! I was referring to the 70’s and 80’s style of Chinese action films that inspired Dragonballs fights. Those movies had a tendency of telling a story in the middle of a fight by using the three steps I mentioned. Lead-Up, impact, and follow through. A lot of Dragonballs fights do the impact and follow through REALLY well, but the small interactions, the lead-up, between those large impacts is lacking in terms of animation and fluidity. In the video, and after going back and watching some of the best fights in the series, I noticed reused animation and smear lines being overly abundant. It’s not a negative, nor does it make the scenes any less than a Naruto fight, but me personally would rather see every blow be blocked and every move have purpose.
@The_Endless_Sponge
6 ай бұрын
Rockstar Educator! Subscribed. Could you do a case study on western action animation? In the DC Animated Universe, there were many japanese studios that worked on Batman: The Animated Series, and I’m pretty sure Superman: The Animated Series. Either way, thanks for your time; looking forward to more content.
@trevinodude
2 жыл бұрын
As someone who has been a fan of both Naruto and Dragon Ball Z for pretty much all of my life, it’s amazing to finally hear about the different approaches to each series fight scenes. Both Naruto and Dragon Ball has captivated me time and time again with their amazing fight scenes but one always seemed more fluid and the other more structured and rigid, and it’s nice to finally get an explanation for that. It’s amazing how different schools of thought can still turn out to have equally amazing results for vastly different reasons. Animation is far more interesting than some ppl give it credit for.
@e1622zelda
2 жыл бұрын
I will say that Naruto did sacrifice detailed characters that morphed a bit too much in order to convey the insane amount of movement in the Animation sometimes. . Love them both in different ways.
@HassanAhmed-rf9xr
2 жыл бұрын
can you name a few?
@mrme.484
2 жыл бұрын
@@HassanAhmed-rf9xr the most popular one, naruto vs pain.
@xoire9754
Жыл бұрын
It didn't "sacrifice" anything - it is an objectively positive style choice that is lost on anime poindexters who think they understand art, but have really just arbitrarily decided to fixate on something to project the idea that they have some expertise on a subject in which they really know nothing about. Every idiot on KZitem cites the Pain fight, animated by a legendary figure in the industry, which very well may be the best work he's ever done. For some reason, people seem to think that these were animation errors that they were too lazy to clean up. Hearing people pontificate on that fight is like watching a group's reaction to a joke that they didn't understand - everyone scrambling to point out the flaw in someone's reasoning when they were actually being witty.
@e1622zelda
Жыл бұрын
@@xoire9754 wow, jezz dude. Yea the pain fight looked great, and pausing inbetweens is dumb, lol. pain just happens to have some of the funniest in between shots ever. that does not take away from the amazing animation. By sacrifice I mean haveing less detail in order to make it easier for the animators to convey movement for certain parts. I am an Artist and Animator btw lol. Also Animation and 3d modeling degree. Classic 1940's disney, hana barbara era, fletcher, 1980's Anime classics, ive seen em all. Also they were on time tables when making Naruto like most anime, that also effects the amount of detail. If they would have paid the guy good and given him more time, the pain fight would have looked twice as good as it already did.
@Myday_145
2 жыл бұрын
I always thought this, that dragon ball z’s animation was kinda stiff and naruto’s was flexible and a bit smoother. Anyways great video!
@egganegga
2 жыл бұрын
It’s probably because dragon ball z sometimes trades style over animation .
@Myday_145
2 жыл бұрын
@@egganegga yea, I thought that too. Probably just stiff cause of the design of the entire anime
@UnifiedEntity
2 жыл бұрын
DBZ tended to actually keep consistent character modeling in its animation. To me that was for the better as it suited it.
@The_Man_Who_Sold_the_World.
2 жыл бұрын
Omg, I've been wanting to see a video like this for a long time!
@amped-_-509
2 жыл бұрын
Breh DBZ fans are actually bias as tho
@turkeysgotmorecloutthanyou
2 жыл бұрын
And so are naruto, all anime fans are biased
@nazarenomilohanich4883
2 жыл бұрын
This was a super informative video, definitely one of your best! One of the things I love the most about animation is how it can allow for such drastically different approaches to the very same actions depending on the people behind it. As someone looking to get into the industry one day, I cannot thank you enough for putting into words the large differences between these 2 equally awesome approaches to action animation. Now I feel like I understand quite a bit more of the basics that go into designing an action sequence (with a certain style), plus theres some cool animators you showcased that I want to look into more into myself lmao Also, its really fun to see your takes on other shows besides DB as well, looking forward to whatever franchise you decide to tackle next
@forgottenrelics1197
2 жыл бұрын
Yesss it's exactly what makes anime so fun is the variety in stylistic approaches (at least for me lol). I'm happy the video was useful!
@EnoYaka
2 жыл бұрын
I love both styles
@forgottenrelics1197
2 жыл бұрын
same :)
@eazybaby5094
2 жыл бұрын
This was so interesting and explains why YYH, Naruto, and others are visually some of my favsq. I love DBZ, but must admit that imagining it in the flow style is dream like
@diegobarreto3010
2 жыл бұрын
The flow style kinda happens in Dragon Ball Super and I dont think it fits DB very well. That is why DBZ still feels more impactful on every punch and that is what made it famous.
@eazybaby5094
2 жыл бұрын
@@diegobarreto3010 idk, cuz Super: Broly was more flow, and was fire for it 🔥
@GodkuRockwell1294
2 жыл бұрын
Lmao you had zyzz in your video 0:04
@davionfowler2393
2 жыл бұрын
My boi great to see another vid 🐐🫱🏽🫲🏾
@terrydubuisson4209
2 жыл бұрын
I've never watched Naruto, but how you explained it's animation makes me want to watch it
@dbog5214
2 жыл бұрын
You won't regret it. (Part 1 that is).
@SuperVegotta
2 жыл бұрын
Dont listen to DBOG you might enjoy everything or you maybe wont. But dont worry , Part 2 is excellent aswell! I would even prefer it but i Love Naruto in General. Give it a try , its really great Overall!
@HassanAhmed-rf9xr
2 жыл бұрын
Even up until Boruto to a point I liked. This was when Boruto just came out and we got the OLDER Kawaki v Boruto. The summoning arc was the first notable thing for me (the class president was it kumine ?). After that some sick scenes but overall decline.
@Apexcellence.
2 жыл бұрын
You should search up Naruto Filler list before you do, there’s episodes that aren’t part of the story
@draccuzer
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, Naruto in general is a pretty good show provided that you skip the fillers. The fillers are just too damn awful so I suggest you find some guides or list of filler so you can skip it.
@JRDNCAT
2 жыл бұрын
Really like this format and style of video! Would be awesome if you could cover more Naruto and 90's Hunter X Hunter!
@forgottenrelics1197
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks and I'll definitely be getting to hxh 99 soon enough 👀
@p0mf47
2 жыл бұрын
I preferred, kanada style more, like animations used in studio trigger
@panhow
2 жыл бұрын
Dragon Ball Z animation tend to look stiff compare to Naruto, but a lot of detail were kept. I think this is why most fan animation of Dragon Ball look so off to me since they add flow into it.
@e1622zelda
2 жыл бұрын
Great video! Your gonna hit The algorithm eventually and be in the millions!
@blackatem1174
2 жыл бұрын
As someone who grew up watching dragon Ball and loving it... I really feel like they need to use less of those rapid punch looped sequences... It's overdone at this point. When dragon Ball first came out I'm sure it was exhilarating and exciting. But if you've ever watched a martial arts movie like Jackie Chan's meals on Wheels or project A. Or the drunken Master sequel. There is so much you can do with fight choreography to create exciting new sequences I would love to see more flow style fight choreography in dragon Ball super to convey what martial arts can be.
@turkeysgotmorecloutthanyou
2 жыл бұрын
Disagree, kanada style complements the martial arts better as you appreciate every attack much more with the stylization and consistency of each attack rather then fast paced complex movements that drown out the moment itself. If dragon ball has flow animation, many acts would suffer from the constant change of pace.
@blackatem1174
2 жыл бұрын
@@turkeysgotmorecloutthanyou Different strokes..I appreciate a combination of both. Kanada done the way dragonball has for 30 years has gotten repetitive to me. every fight is predictabel. 1.the fighter punch fist. 2.punch eachother in to some mountain, rapid punch and dodge loop, Throw a few energy blasts. rinse repeat throw a kick in. I been watching dragonball for 27 years its the same fight every time now. When dragonball first came it was fresh. Its old now.
@turkeysgotmorecloutthanyou
2 жыл бұрын
@@blackatem1174 appreciate the opinion, I just prefer it over the flow style because of how over done it is. I also like how the kanada style helped build up the dramatic aura around the show, because my problem with flow is how goofy it is and how it can really mess with the budget of the show. Kanada may be repetitive if you watch the show for years but it’s so rare now a days that i don’t want dragon ball to stop with it.
@cracktoon_powerscaling
2 жыл бұрын
@@turkeysgotmorecloutthanyou i too like 2 frames being repeated for 30 seconds
@turkeysgotmorecloutthanyou
2 жыл бұрын
@@cracktoon_powerscaling I mean it isn’t just me, most fans subconsciously don’t like the flow style in dragon ball, it’s why super is hated to begin with. When dragon ball used flow style, we got stuff like episode 5 and fans didn’t really get used to it till the black goku arc. 2 frames being repeated for 30 seconds is going to be something used regardless of the animation style. Flow animation is extremely expensive so you’ll get a lot of badly animated episodes before s big fight is coming up. It’s why the average naruto episode looks like garbage in comparison to the well animated fights. Dragon ball got away when it came tot he broly movie, but that’s an exception. I much prefer consistency, direction, art, and intensity even at the expensive of those “atatatatatatata” then cartoonish flow style squash and stretch that probably won’t work as well for a martial arts/ Superman fighting style based show such as dragon ball.
@MegaDrain
2 жыл бұрын
I love the two examples you used of punches were both different scenes of Sasuke getting his clock cleaned.
@Vitioche
2 жыл бұрын
Suprised you didnt mention goku v vegeta, that amazing yamamuros cut
@jackthegreek6092
2 жыл бұрын
I would live to see a Dragon Ball fight by Norio Matsumoto. Simplified models always compliment Dragon Ball anyway and it would be cool to see more realistic martial arts movement.
@forgottenrelics1197
2 жыл бұрын
Same haha, would be so cool to see a legend like that touch the series. And considering Dragon Ball's 2d designs with Shintani have moved to simplicity, they would pair well together :)
@jackthegreek6092
2 жыл бұрын
@@forgottenrelics1197 Seeing him touch something like Tien vs Goku would be a real treat I think. Which one? Yes.
@forgottenrelics1197
2 жыл бұрын
@@jackthegreek6092 Yesss that fight is severely underrated and his style of action would fit great with that era.
@marronromani
2 жыл бұрын
don't worry bro you said the name right 💯
@Ayeato
2 жыл бұрын
naruto easily has better fights
@aagamer43
2 жыл бұрын
Opinion not fact
@AkatsukiClash
2 жыл бұрын
Here we go
@slifer875
2 жыл бұрын
Better choregraphy? most of the time yes, naruto is superior, better directed? both had amazing fights but most were underwhelming, most impactful and intense? dragon ball is superior on those aspects. Story can also elevate a fight, not to mention the placement of the music, both have legendary momments that inspired future animators but both being long running shonen animes meant that alot of the action was mediocre at best.
@SON-AYAKU
2 жыл бұрын
Fights may be another topic my friend and an opinion. However animation is easily won by Naruto.
@Ayeato
2 жыл бұрын
Db fights dont have choreography and animation anywhere near the naruto fights. The highs of naruto fights cant be touched by the highs of db fights. The naruto and sasuke vs momoshiki from boruto is one of the best animated fights ever. Im not speaking on what was impactful or not.
@TheEpicEndermanTV
2 жыл бұрын
God i love naruto animation, i have been inspired to become an animator
@delix787
2 жыл бұрын
Naruto fights hit different than others who wanted real choreograph! 💙😈💙
@egganegga
2 жыл бұрын
Naruto is better choreographed and has more martial arts but dragon ball is more fast paced action
@Kami.Asura000
2 жыл бұрын
Wouldn't say that either, in OG Dragon Ball they still showcased alot comparable choreography and in many cases better martial arts even bringing back a lot of those elements is fights of Super
@crapcase3985
2 жыл бұрын
Naruto is wayyy more consistent with its fight animation. I tried to show a friend the ssj2 goku vs majin vegeta fight and the goku vs buu fight but I had to cherry pick moments because of how much of these fights are padded with repetitive animation. On the other hand, I could sit back with a friend and show them naruto vs pain or kakashi vs obito without really worrying.
@turkeysgotmorecloutthanyou
2 жыл бұрын
Yes, you can watch Naruto vs pain and Obito vs kakashi, that’s the problem with flow state. Yes, dragon ball does reuse animation at times but not only was it more expensive to animate back in the day, it also doesn’t look that bad. The art style, drawings, and direction compensates and the kanada style helps emphasis each attack which is important in a Superman/ old school martial arts type fighting style. Unlike you, I can watch goku vs vegeta or vegeta vs pui pui just fine since almost any fight in dragon ball is iconic. With naruto, if the fight isn’t major then it more times then not kinda sucks. Naruto vs pain (first phase) doesn’t even have that hood animation, just has good direction and the second half is panned for having way to much flow that you can’t take the fight seriously.
@crapcase3985
2 жыл бұрын
@@turkeysgotmorecloutthanyou Animation being more expensive doesn't suddenly mean I can excuse repeated animation. I don't think DBZ fights look bad but I can't show them in their entirety without coming across something repetitive. DBZ fights being iconic doesn't make them great fights, it just means they're popular. Most of Naruto's major fights have way more consistency compared to dbz. Naruto Vs pain is more subjective, I prefer its 2nd half because it embraces how ridiculous the powerscaling had gotten. Although I would say Original Naruto Vs Original Dragonball is a much closer comparison as I love almost every fight in Dragonball.
@christianbawua-anipah1987
2 жыл бұрын
As much as how fantastic and amazingly informative this video is, there's still a huge misunderstanding among the comments on what the respective schools are. I mean "DBS uSED thE CraPPy FLow sChOOl iN epS 5" what?
@RickAstIeyOfficiaI
2 жыл бұрын
It's basically the same difference between SF and KoF animation
@ultimaweapon6
2 жыл бұрын
This was a very interesting video
@alexlovehall7796
2 жыл бұрын
Honestly this is one of your best edited videos yet, I learned alot of the process, direction and techniques from this video as well as the fact it’s ok to like both schools for different fight scene types. I’d add links to the individual people you’ve covered in the description and other than that, keep up the great work
@forgottenrelics1197
2 жыл бұрын
That's great to hear :)
@Snitzel1
2 жыл бұрын
i'd say there isn't really a comparison between these two. Imo the original naruto and dragonball and the really early Z had their choreography on point. I really miss these cleanly animated fights, where seemingly every jump or little movement was planned and executed precisely. As for example the fight between Krillin and Piccollo or The fights between the Z fighters and Nappa/Vegeta and for Naruto, honestly every Gaara/Lee fight and the fight between Naruto and Sasuke of course in the end. Those were my highlights atleast.
@NIMPAK1
2 жыл бұрын
This is probably my limited animation knowledge talking, but to me Naruto actually looks more Kanada-esque than Dragon Ball. When I think of that style I tend to think of unshaded characters with liberal use of smears, which describes Naruto's animation to a tee. The big difference seems to be the use of straight ahead animation as opposed to pose to pose.
@forgottenrelics1197
2 жыл бұрын
That's fair but Kanada was very conservative when it came to smears and his drawings especially early on embraced rough lines. A world away from the softer drawings of Matsumoto or Wakabayashi.
@tommydesimone6106
2 жыл бұрын
Anybody with good sense would know’ that the only anime that was similar, just as popular and could actually hold a candle to DBZ was HAKUSHO!!!
@Ziyon_
2 жыл бұрын
Goku series Always been my favorite but fight scene was not good..a few of them was great very few..i Always was looking forward to them getting better.. I like how you explained the styles i would like Goku get back to that true anime action martial arts style Naruto anime action is great im not much a Naruto fan..smile But detail action is on point!! I like that alot!
@ryanpreval2206
2 жыл бұрын
please do one piece
@turbotrup96
2 жыл бұрын
This is why I disliked Super's animation-- it focused on fluidity similar to Naruto's.
@santiagomoralesgarcia1802
2 жыл бұрын
Both type of nimation are great because for dragon ball the, guys move in hyper speed and they can fly, meanwhile naruto is about ninja and they move really cool. Now the pillars of those animation are Yoshimishi Kameda (Kanada Style) and Yutaka Nakamura (flow style)
@Static1Bolt
2 жыл бұрын
Would love to see more about HxH and YYH. Super interesting stuff!
@forgottenrelics1197
2 жыл бұрын
Currently writing a video on HxH so it will come sooner than later haha
@Static1Bolt
2 жыл бұрын
@@forgottenrelics1197 You the man 💯
@timinatr99
2 жыл бұрын
DBS Broly movie
@egganegga
2 жыл бұрын
Dragon ball z not super
@egganegga
2 жыл бұрын
@@garouthedemon7401 this video is talking about Dbz not super
@MazingerDestro
2 жыл бұрын
Da flow school > Da stiff school
@Prime_Eclipse
2 жыл бұрын
0 seconds in and I am already predicting that this ends with: "it depends on what you like"
@maxmatthews3443
2 жыл бұрын
Dragonball and Naruto prove that there's not one way to make cool fight scene
@forgottenrelics1197
2 жыл бұрын
Exactly, there are many approaches to action and the diversity in styles is what I love about Japanese animation :)
@JannahSWT
2 жыл бұрын
Deep down we all know is that Goku solos every Naruto Character
@platinumnovawarriorrx20-en57
2 жыл бұрын
cool comprehensive breakdown! it was like a documentary about the animation of DBZ & Naruto, I wanted to play it on the tv while my fam chilled in our hotel room. There was no way to project the image from my phone, rip.
@magnawaves
Жыл бұрын
Very pleasantly surprised to learn that the same person did those particular scenes from YYH and Naruto. Those episodes always blew my mind with how much crazy and smooth movement there was, and I'm a big fan of the rounder look in motion. In my own work in the past I definitely stuck to the DBZ style in this video with a much stronger emphasis on very on model key frames and less overall animations. It has been several years since I took art seriously, and videos like these get that old fire burning
@Puff_the_Tuff
2 жыл бұрын
I was just thinking about these twos animation.
@afro_souledits2382
2 жыл бұрын
To me dbz fights are more dynamic and brutal while Naruto fights are more emotional , calculating and expressive of that character
@janbrohal1332
2 жыл бұрын
DBZ vs Yu Yu Hakusho would be a good comparison
@gocool6299
2 жыл бұрын
The thing about dbz fights is that you like it more and more each time you watch heck first time i watched a dbz fight i thought it was repetitive and boring. Until i started watching the show i became a big fan its my favorite anime now cause its a show to enjoy no love drama or depression just full out love and fighting and the villian suits my taste they aren't villians with backstorys they are just evil with no human feelings.
@cracktoon_powerscaling
2 жыл бұрын
No, they still suck
@AlexDaeling
2 жыл бұрын
i was expecting a low quality video when i clicked on this, some fan animation where they fight. but i was pleasantly surprised with this. good video. you're doing great
@emilyfree4732
2 жыл бұрын
This video was uploaded on my birthday.. gonna watch the entire thing
@ThePowerLover
2 жыл бұрын
Fights in DB are like close dance and in Naruto are like loose dance.
@LowellLucasJr.
2 жыл бұрын
In the end...its all about throwing some hands and the awesome animators behind them. Whether its flashy or flowing...both are exciting to watch!
@drewsipherthehedgehog388
2 жыл бұрын
for me personally,this was the most interesting and entertaining video from u i have ever seen
@forgottenrelics1197
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks, I put a lot of time into it so I appreciate that :)
@SuperKamiGuruu
2 жыл бұрын
1:50 what fucking show is this????
@ALq1n_14
2 жыл бұрын
I would love to see you break down the lows and the highs of Black Clover, and what happened at behind the scenes which lead to staff members to work in such harsh deadlines/conditions
@divinicron5454
2 жыл бұрын
Fantastic video as always! What is your favorite Non-Japanese animations/cartoons?
@frankie494
2 жыл бұрын
I wish there was more focus on Boruto's animation because honestly, a lot of the older animations have already been out done in the newer series.
@shirotakeda8401
2 жыл бұрын
Why the philosophy is still the same in Boruto
@theavatar9191
2 жыл бұрын
Imma cry whenever there's KZitem animation breakdown content like this for Avatar the Last Airbender
@ty.phonic
2 жыл бұрын
this awesome. so glad to see you venturing into different topics!
@InitiaLeo
Жыл бұрын
flow school? Do you not know about Utsunomiya Satoru and his Utsunomiya-kei AKA jikanjiku-kei or, if anglicized, timeline-school? That's the school of animation methodology that Matsumoto Norio fall under. Utsunomiya Satoru was truly an unfortunately forgotten revolutionary genius...
@TomFooleryTattoos
Жыл бұрын
Hey, I’m writing this as I get ready for work so I don’t have much of a chance to look through your channel yet, but have you ever broken down the animation for Naruto Shippuden Episode 167: Planetary Devastation (Chibaku Tensei). It’s widely regarded as one of the worst animations from the series, but I’m definitely curious to get an in depth breakdown on the episode! Thanks!
@whatanonsense856
5 ай бұрын
Thank you very much for all the information, and all the artist's names! I got especially giddy when I read the name of Spencer Wan at 9:47 ; one of my personal favorites 😁 That being said, I would very much like to know if I got the name at around 0:42 right: Is that "Matteo Waltz"?
@charlesmaclellan8124
2 жыл бұрын
I wish there was a "Kai" version for the Naruto franchise. I've never actually watched the show before. :/ It looks quite beautiful.
@theavatar9191
2 жыл бұрын
There is a fan made Kai version but you'd have to pirate it 👀
@mounada4098
2 жыл бұрын
I think there is kai, and yeah you either watch the kai or use a filler list
@estesdabestes340
2 жыл бұрын
I watched a cut that was called “naruto- the ocean cut”. You could always try that. I loved it and thought it was super clean. If you have trouble finding it, just look up on KZitem “I re-edited all of naruto for my girlfriend” and you can find the link through there
@InitiaLeo
Жыл бұрын
Also it is called web-kei, not "web gen", according to Yamashita Shingo, and includes only ryochimo, Yamashita Shingo, Kutsuna Kenichi, and any other animator who actually follows the web-kei's animation methodology, such as Watanabe Kenichiro, rather than any self-proclaimed "web gen" animator who merely animates digitally on a tablet while using other animation methodologies.
@shunkun8668
2 жыл бұрын
Could you cover some of Bleach animation as well? I'd like to see you analyse fights like Grimmjow vs Ichigo (part 3) and a lot of other cool ones
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