I guess so long as the current per cell is not too high then cooling will not be an issue. For the original pack they probably figured the cells needed air space for cooling as there were a lot fewer of them.
@de-bodgery
2 жыл бұрын
Dead air space is a great insulator and a lousy conductor of heat. Double pane windows have a small air gap between the glass panes that acts like insulation. The spacing between the cells does not help them cool better. It makes them cool worse. My packs are tightly packed together cells that are bonded together with thermal glue so they can transfer their heat evenly across the entire pack and hopefully to the outside better. *** And yes...stay within that magical 60 amps on the factory pack and it is unlikely it will get very warm. I didn't mention this in the video, but they used .15mm nickel and I use that on only very low amperage packs. For something like even the factory pack, I would have used .3mm nickel. It all comes down to the heat losses in the interconnecting nickel and minimizing them as much as possible. I have some nickel plated copper strip. This will get those heat losses even lower than the .3mm nickel. I have a single roll of it and not enough for both modules in the new pack. I would like to use it on this pack, but since I have 15 rolls of .3mm nickel, I'll probably use that since I have so much of it. The last 2 module 20S pack I built is almost the exact same capacity. I kept nickel heat losses to around 20 watts total across both modules at 100 amps. That's pretty low. In incandescent bulbs, 20 watts all packed into a tiny hot filament barely makes the glass bulb warm.
@alibro7512
2 жыл бұрын
@@de-bodgery Agreed that without a fan blowing the air gaps are only insulating the pack. I normally use honeycomb type plastic cell holders which are a good compromise. On my last build I used 0.15mm 8mm nickel but used a lot of it. Every cell had two current paths to the other cells or if that wasn't possible I used two or three strips welded on top of each other. I also spot welded at least four times for every connection. This was for a 1500W controller so it was ample in my case as it was nowhere near the current you will be drawing.
@de-bodgery
2 жыл бұрын
@@alibro7512 Did you use .15mm becasue your spot welder couldn't handle thicker nickel? The spot welds are another source of resistance and losses. I too use many welds on each cell. I weld each location of nickel 3 times or 6 spots. I also weld deep as I can safely go without blowing through the cells. All of this is to mitigate the spot weld resistance as much as possible. Your method does a decent job of current carrying...just use lots and lots of nickel.
@alibro7512
2 жыл бұрын
@@de-bodgery You got to love KZitem. I answered but it deleted my message. I used a Malectrics spot welder which can weld up to .25mm but I happened to have plenty of 0.15mm x 8mm solid nickel strip as I was selling it at the time on ebay.
@de-bodgery
2 жыл бұрын
@@alibro7512 I forget who now or what they said, but that happened to someone else for another video I recently posted. I liked what they posted and I got an email notification about it. I wanted to respond back and their post was not there! I don't know why youtube does that sometimes. I had a guy accuse me of deleting his posts in my videos like 6 months ago. I know for a fact I didn't do that! I look at what others say as equal value to my own. I might not like what they say, but their opinion is still their opinion and I don't want people deleting what I post. *** I think I looked at the Malectrics back when I was looking to replace my POS Suunko with something worth having. I ended up buying a KWELD. It can weld probably .5mm nickel...not that I have ever tried. Like a year ago I had some 1/16" thick steel sheet that I needed to bond together. Steel has much higher resistance than nickel so I figured my KWELD ought to be able to handle the thickness. Sure enough...1/8" total thickness of steel spot welded just fine.
@Galanty
Жыл бұрын
Can you share size in measurements dimensions of original pack and dimension of new pack?
@de-bodgery
Жыл бұрын
Do you have a City? Measure it yourself. Otherwise, this isn't going to fit something else.
@tau2751
2 жыл бұрын
20s is 84v not 82v unless you are only charging to 4.1v for cell life which is understandable that pack looks awesome I want to do a similar pack for my DT thunder Can I ask what dimensions the tub is? As I'm.pretty sure the thunder uses the same one
@de-bodgery
2 жыл бұрын
Yup! There is no point charging to 84v or 4.2v per cell. Ever look at a discharge curve for LION cells? Even 4.1v is barely worth it.
@Vmaxfodder
Жыл бұрын
@de-bodgery what about 24s vs 23s the limited x is 23s?
@Jaykilla1981
6 ай бұрын
I test rode it and it only did 30mph. The settings were on high. I weigh 180lbs. What was wrong?
@de-bodgery
6 ай бұрын
Trapezoidal controllers and small battery capacity
@v_tha_sapien5742
2 жыл бұрын
Man, I'd love to see a break down of a limited Battery. I hear that there's a big difference between discharge rates on samsung vs LG batteries? I'm not sure of the name of the cell, But I remember hearing somewhere online that samsung batteries give higher current outputs but lower range and the lg cells in the limited is the opposite, longer range, slower speed, acceleration?
@v_tha_sapien5742
2 жыл бұрын
Another speculation about the storm limited battery is that it's not pushing its true power?
@de-bodgery
2 жыл бұрын
@@v_tha_sapien5742 Pull your battery and send it my way! I'm in Colorado. I'll take it apart, analyze the cells, BMS, construction quality, etc. I love doing tear downs of stuff! After I'm done, your pack will still work, but I'll have to take is apart at least part way to see how it is constructed. It's your pack, so it would come back to you after I've exposed its design details. I can't speak for other packs since I haven't seen them, but the City pack is pretty limited. It's possible the LTD pack is much beefier and capable of a lot more current delivery, but then it might not be true either. Friday, I pulled a Futecher pack. The BMS had died, but the cells are still OK. I should make a video about it. It's another limited use pack. If 2 packs is any indication about all the others, then they are all built to quite close to the maximum specs that Dualtron states for their scooters. That's not really proof of anything however. *** Charge and discharge rates for all cells is usually quite different. You'll see this on their manufacturer spec sheets. Discharge might be 3C and charge might be .5C. If that's a 3000mah cell, it means you can discharge at 9 amps per cell, but only charge at 1.5 amps per cell. LG, Samsung, Sony, Panasonic, etc...they all have a wide variety of cells. Some will have much better discharge rates or better charge rates or more or less capacity. You can't just make a blanket statement that "Samsung cells are better than LG" or whoever. This is hardly the case! Compare 2 cells with very similar specs from each manufacturer and they will probably perform almost identically. I'll use cells from any of those companies with high levels of confidence. What matters most is the cell capacities and discharge rates....not Samsung vs Panasonic vs LG. It's the combination of discharge rates and cell capacities that define range and pack amperage and that can be done in a hundred ways.
@v_tha_sapien5742
2 жыл бұрын
@@de-bodgery ok, good to know!!!!! Thanks for the insight. Man, I'll definitely keep that in mind!!! Then, you can make a video on it. That'd be sick. Then, us average consumers can have an understanding of it's true performance.
@de-bodgery
2 жыл бұрын
@@v_tha_sapien5742 you'd have to send me your pack with the knowledge that I'm going to take the covers off it.
@v_tha_sapien5742
2 жыл бұрын
@@de-bodgery ahh yea I know. You have to take off the cover. There's a Russian dude who did it on a limited battery. But of course, I can't understand a damn thing he says. It was brief too. He did a small review on the limited long ago.
@Vmaxfodder
Жыл бұрын
hi , I m building a 24s 9p x 2 pack with samsung 50s batteries with 2 fardrivers ND84530 controllers . can you tell me if 50s batteries are any good? theyre 5000mah and 35amp disch. 260amp each motor. any thoughts?
@de-bodgery
Жыл бұрын
I've never used this cell. Samsung has a good reputation so this cell probably performs well. If you haven't bought cells yet, molicell has gotten really solid reviews and wide support.
@Vmaxfodder
Жыл бұрын
@de-bodgery you are a national treasure! Be careful out there riding scooters! Love the video contents! If you're in the market for hub motors? UU motors has some freaky cool motors up to 8000watts . But it is hard to find the real site thanks to the nanny state internet 😕.
@de-bodgery
Жыл бұрын
@@Vmaxfodder Ever try a VPN? I haven't been without it since 2019. I'm on VPN 100% of the time. Most often I connect to a USA location, but then there are times when I connect to other countries to get around the internet monitoring in the USA. It's also great for keeping spying eyes like the NSA off my traffic!
@de-bodgery
Жыл бұрын
@@danrivera634 You would also be upgrading everything else too. It's not rated for 82v.
@danrivera634
Жыл бұрын
I like to buy the Dualtron City also but, concern about the battery not lasting as much as it suppose to. After listening to your explanation i like to know how much will it cost me to buy 2 battery for my dualtron city. I live in New york. How much will it cost to ship it related to weight
@de-bodgery
Жыл бұрын
You should ask Dualtron, not me.
@user-em7uz3pc4z
2 ай бұрын
Can you build me a battery for my Kugoo g booster ?
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