Absolutely one of the best Vortex videos made. When Ryan is quiet and all ears, you know whoever is talking possess an encyclopedia of knowledge in regards to bullets and ballistics. I could listen for another hour. Great job guys!
@ronws2007
Жыл бұрын
Dang it, you beat me to it. A couple of humble guys learning a lot of stuff. Awesome.
@JamesM-l5g
6 ай бұрын
I totally agree but most are not hard to beat.
@bobbymabe2313
2 жыл бұрын
Bullet selection is the number one mistake hunters make. Then blame the caliber for poor performance
@jl123ist
2 жыл бұрын
I've heard people complain about the .270 winchester in that way. I even heard a guy say that a .270 wouldn't kill a deer, but I've never seen a whitetail that didn't die quickly if not instantly after being hit with a good quality 130 grain .270 soft point.
@johnkeisterelquattro2553
2 жыл бұрын
Very VERY well said Bobby!!!
@davidtolley1374
2 жыл бұрын
You're not the real Hank Hill.
@Huckleberry_Hunter
2 жыл бұрын
@@jl123ist I’ve killed over 20 Texas whitetail with a Hornady 130 gr 270 win. Ranging anywhere from 50-315 yards. The damage I’ve seen has sometimes made me think the 270 is overkill for whitetail. I haven’t had a chance to test on mule deer or elk yet, but 270 Win is a helluva deer killer..
@jl123ist
2 жыл бұрын
@@Huckleberry_Hunter I agree, it is a fantastic deer killer. I killed two 100lb does with one shot from a .270 win 130gr winchester soft point they were perfectly lined up with each other and both dropped instantly.
@nicolekarres9675
2 жыл бұрын
Excellent discussion that covers the interaction between physics and physiology. Hats off to Mark and Ryan for the questions.
@VortexNation
2 жыл бұрын
It was an informational one that's for sure! Thanks for tuning in!
@cs7285
Жыл бұрын
Another one of these is needed! Thanks for all of these podcasts
@peterhorton5217
2 жыл бұрын
IMO an Excellent Podcast .. So many things were covered in terms of BallisticsPerformance and it was gr8 to get confirmation of what to use when and where and reconfirm uses for the different projectiles ..From this Podcast it helps to better identify Key facts that Hunters need to be aware of when chosing their desired Bullet. Projectile Placement is the precursor to Projectile Performance on Target. Velocity Determines Perforamnce up to the Maximum Distance that the Bullet is designed to Kiil at. ie Anything below that Number is where the projectile wont Mushroom/Open up and do it's Job properly in the Hunting arena. The more i read and watch these types of information sharing today as Hunters we need to realise we must as hunters and shooters understand how and what the projectile Will do--- out to your max hunting range whatever that maybe..it doesnt matter if it 100y or 500y Still each one has optimal range it will perform at some(Projectiles) more thans others. Their are a myriad of options today and it on us to get it right Thanks again i feel better informaed to make good call on my Ammo
@AlaskanBallistics
Жыл бұрын
Funny how The hornady says that you want 2 to 3 feet of penetration and don't want jacket core separation, but they still produce SST and ELD-X which shatter at close range
@maccaspope2275
Жыл бұрын
If you used a heavier bullet at a lower velocity maybe you wouldn't get such problems.
@4739-g9c
Жыл бұрын
Sst is not intended for hunting. More for self defense is my understanding.
@maccaspope2275
Жыл бұрын
@@4739-g9c Except plenty of people use them successfully for hunting
@danielrobey1759
Жыл бұрын
They’re definitely rib cage bullets up close but once they slow down a little they get more penetration. There’s a website based out of New Zealand that has a ton of great information about the ballistics of various cartridges and they talk about using a candle to anneal the ogive, (specifically the sst)really simple process and you only have to do a few bullets for hunting use. I’m going to give it a try.
@peterconnan5631
2 жыл бұрын
I think this is a video every hunter should watch. Thanks. One question: where can I find the design velocity range of specefic bullets published?
@hutehund9519
Жыл бұрын
Jayden is a treasure trove of knowledge, and much like Ryan, explains complex details in a way that doesn't confuse laymen. Great podcast.
@bnscholet911
Жыл бұрын
I literally watched this five times, super informative podcast! So valuable, please set up another with him
@REDNECKROOTS
Жыл бұрын
The eldx come apart bad up close. Shot 3 deer wtail, at 30,55,75 yards. I did kill the deer every time but no exit wound at all just blew apart after 6inches. And it was a slow gasping kill. I wasn't impressed. Def need a bonded option . Cx don't shoot good outa my gun. I now use federal terminal accent. Those things are hammers. Best I've seen ever!
@uberfalcon1965
Ай бұрын
Like he said, it's a contradiction to work up close and far away. Tradeoffs.
@hutchinsoncaraudio9234
2 жыл бұрын
Love the podcast! Really cool to see both companies working together to make an info-packed and entertaining podcast. I still would love to see a podcast about big-bore rifles and cartridges sometime!
@VortexNation
2 жыл бұрын
Teamwork makes the dreamwork!
@michaelgarrow3239
2 жыл бұрын
My grandpa said “get as close as you can- sonny, then get 5 yards closer.”
@ronladuke7235
2 жыл бұрын
The old spire point 129 in 264 win mag and 139 in 7mm Rem mag,I have seen lots of white tail and mule deer taken cross canyon shooting at 400 to 600 yards back in the 70s and 80s. Bullets recovered were usually on the off side hide perfectly expanded. On the other hand I have shot deer at close range and had three exit holes nasty destruction inside!
@TheEDCTribe
2 жыл бұрын
Incredible episode. Jayden is an incredible wealth of knowledge.
@danielthompson3837
2 жыл бұрын
Great episode!!! SO much knowledge. When is Hornady coming out with the 6.5 Grendel ELD-X???
@ElderGuy729
2 жыл бұрын
I would be happy if they would start factory loading the Grendel SST again!
@dariangerardo2
2 жыл бұрын
i’m waiting for it also!
@dariangerardo2
2 жыл бұрын
@@ElderGuy729 i’d be happy with that also! ELD Match works but not as good as the SST’s
@jonathanmitchell3733
2 жыл бұрын
Loved the way you started this podcast. How do animals die (in hunting scenarios)
@MrHf4l
2 жыл бұрын
Hornady thinks the ELDX is a much more capable bullet than their customer’s do….
@jacobmullins3644
2 жыл бұрын
I'd rather use the eldx than a hammer
@samdunn5985
2 жыл бұрын
Everything was so well explained in this video. Thanks for the efforts made to simplify things down, much appreciated. I feel like I learned a lot from this video. Love the podcast. Sam
@VortexNation
2 жыл бұрын
Happy to hear that you enjoyed it Sam!
@DuckersAI
2 жыл бұрын
I hear if you just get a Nosler Accubond or Accubond LR all your issues just go away… and its fact checked true
@Kross8761
2 жыл бұрын
to add to his quote near the end "the technology advancements mean we constantly have to reevaluate what's possible" I'm curious to see if direct metal laser sintering (metal 3d printing) can be used in bullet design similarly to how it's used in suppressors and similar things where you can get internal geometries that were previously impossible with normal manufacturing processes and techniques. I think it's still going to be a long time before it's viable on a large scale, but imagine if you could have a CX bullet strategically "weakened" internally in a manner that would allow it to still hold together at higher velocities, but be capable of significant and reliable expansion at lower velocities.
@bullhunter20jw33
Жыл бұрын
I will give a little constructive criticism. Take this for what its worth. I have a few concerns about Hornady's ELD-x bullet design. It is FAR from what can be considered what you call "the perfect" hunting bullet. First, this long range hunting craze is not for most hunters. 500 yards is probably the longest range most hunters can comfortably shoot. With many high powered cartridges, these new cup and core bullets with thin jackets and a small "interlock" have relatively terrible short range performance in comparison with old tried and true "bonded" or "partioned" bullets. When these thin jacketed "interlocked" bullets encounter dense bone and tissue, these recovered bullets have been found to have completely shed the bullet core with little to no bullet penetration. Many times requiring a follow up shot! I am waiting for the day when Hornady actually follows through on their promise on the "perfect" hunting bullet. Bullets like the Nosler Partition, Swift A-frame, Speer Grand Slam, Federal Terminal Ascent, Nosler Accubond, and yes Hornady Interbond (discontinued?) are all bullets that perform perfectly at short to mid range distances and arguably at long ranges, because of well designed bullet shanks, or cores bonded to the jackets that keep some weight retention at all distances. Many hunters want to see weight retention in recovered bullets that give good penetration. I am leary about using ELD-x bullets for big game animals like elk and moose, given its proven terminal performance. Its very disappointing given Hornady bullets are the most readily available bullets to the consumer, at prices closer to half that of its competitors. Its obvious that they target consumers like match long range shooters, and use great marketing schemes to sell mediocre terminal performance cup and core bullets. Please go back to the drawing board and give me a copper barrier in the center/back of the lead core or bond the core to the jacket, to stop complete core/jacket separation like the ELD-x shows to do. You pretty much had it with the Interbond, but never offered it in any real diverse bullet/weight offerings. And now you cant find any on shelves.
@ukwan
2 жыл бұрын
One of the most informative and well presented videos I've seen on ballistics so far, what an interesting person, as someone who works as an engineer in another field this is fascinating, so many parallels drawn from my perspective.. I'd love to have heard more about how varmint bullets vary from the big game constructed bullets and how they work in detail as that's more my thing, especially the 17HMR which is a Hornady developed cartridge.. Maybe another time?
@VortexNation
2 жыл бұрын
We can absolutely add that to our list for the future! Thanks for tuning in!
@ronaldbertin9455
Жыл бұрын
I reloaded 162 SST IN MY 7 WSM AND SAW SOME FLAWS , NOW WE LOAD 162 ELDX , VERY Happy with results.
@jeffkelderhouse6354
2 жыл бұрын
Spot on gentlemen, and thanks to Hornady for their great products.
@peterpoel1019
Жыл бұрын
I’m a Midwest straight wall hunter. I’m shooting .350 legend 180 grain power point. I’ve read conflicting opinions if this should be a 150 max vs 200 max round. Academic as most shots are sub 100 yards. Love the accuracy of these rounds
@bobgyetvai9444
2 жыл бұрын
Long range hunting is also destroying much of the overall packages we carry to hunt with . Scopes are a primary example of this tragedy . MOST dont need a See Mars scope . Yet the market is flooded with them . All development is geared for those Sales !!! Thats Tragic . Its refreshing to hear the ELD-X is a good all around advancement of bullets near and far ability . BC is a benefit even for shorter range hunts . Energy and Line Of Sight Preservation of Flight are both beneficial to shorter range hunters .
@danielrobey1759
Жыл бұрын
It’s the short mag craze all over again…. It’s about selling rifles and optics. I will say that at least these newer rounds like the 7mm pro have something to offer unlike the short mags that were as much hype as anything….
@GermanHunter
2 жыл бұрын
This must be one of the top 5 podcasts done by Vortex Nation! Great content, so interesting!
@JamesM-l5g
6 ай бұрын
That was a great video! Thanks ONE QUESTION I specifically would have liked to have heard is at 1800 and 1600 fps what is the actual average expansion size or amount (%) in 10% ballistic gel? What does Hornady consider sufficient expansion, so to actually call it “expansion.” Is that expansion consistency the same across calibers and or weight? Ok, that was two questions. Nonetheless, great video.
@johnnash5118
Жыл бұрын
The name of the cartridge doesn’t determine the effectiveness of bullet terminal ballistics; for example, saying “a 270 is a great deer rifle,” or “a 260 is a questionable elk rifle” is without merit, as there are too many variables. Either cartridges are adequate as long as distance and target mass are considered. That’s where bullet selection becomes the deciding factor. Quick kills require cohesive bullet composition and sectional density to evenly distribute bullet penetration and expansion through bone and the target’s vitals without destruction and contamination of the edible soft tissue; thus, too little terminal energy or too much terminal energy must be considered. Shoot a deer with a 270 at 100y with a 130g FMJ bullet and figure on losing meat on the other side, but with a 130g monolithic or partitioned bullet, the controlled expansion will limit collateral damage. I carry the ELD-X for velocities under 2400fps and Nosler Partitions for over 2400fps with my 260AI for deer, and with my 7SAUM for elk; and yes, I occasionally hunt elk with my 260AI for hunts 400y or less with 140g partitions.
@jjgriffin3275
Жыл бұрын
he says that jacket and core seperation is a bad thing. then why do their sst and ftx bullets do that ? so they make bad bullets that he himself is bad!
@vernehambone3590
2 жыл бұрын
Ryan, We’re you loading 130gr TTSX? Be honest!
@dgreenapple
2 жыл бұрын
A number of smart reviewers have been saying that the ELD-X is not great at very high velocities on near shots -- that is, it works better at slow velocities at long distances. The comment was that it literally explodes at high velocities. In the video, he says that it will work from 30 yards to 800 yards. The commenters don't agree. Would you address that short distance high velocity scenario please?
@kylefreeman1131
2 жыл бұрын
I don’t hunt with the ELD-X anymore. I’ve shot two deer, one around 50 and one around 70 yards. Both times the bullet failed to expand. I had pencil holes on each side. One shot hit both lungs and one hit the heart. I also know of others who have hit deer and never found them. Now they could of made a bad shot, but given my experience I lean toward the bullet failed to do it’s job.
@norton218
Жыл бұрын
I shot 4 elk with a 200gr ELD-X from my 300wsm from 250 yds out to 550yds the cores separated from the jacket every time and required multiple shots to put them down. They all were died with the first shot technically but I keep shooting if the animal is still on its feet. Not one bullet exited. I switched to copper bullets and rarely recover a bullet now.
@archeryhunter86-
10 ай бұрын
The problem is they are starting its effective use by the range. He even said it himself, it is dependent on velocity. It will work at 30 yards on a slower catridge like a 308 probably. They should list what the max velocity it is ideal for. The problem is people are trying to create a long range setup and use the ELDX bullet but then push it fast to try and increase that range which in turn makes it less effective at a close range shot.
@jonathanmitchell3733
2 жыл бұрын
Have you ever noticed how different bones break in unique ways. Thats why I never shoot on the shoulder or the front leg. All those leg bones break like porcelain, pieces shooting all through the good meat. Whereas ribs kind of break like wood or branches, it kind of just splinters and cracks out of the way of the bullet. Theres also less meat around the ribs to waste.
@Brayden11877
2 жыл бұрын
8mm mauser train still chuggin
@joebob4609
2 жыл бұрын
7.62x39 come on guys..
@ronws2007
2 жыл бұрын
There is always an AK guy somewhere. :-)
@mishasumi6827
Жыл бұрын
I like their bullets, but I learned to hate their company leadership who picks and chooses freedoms. Government dealings have made them rotten.
@denisleblanc4506
2 жыл бұрын
I hope the next evolution in bullet design has to be something to replace a lead core in a bullet. I know that monolithic bullets have become pretty good specially in very high velocity loads, but in many calibers, they can't replace the old cup and core bullet. They are just too long for the weight. If they could design a new material for bullet cores that would be the same hardness (or softness) as lead but without the toxicity in could become a game changer for many hunters. To me that would be a big game changer. It would have the same effective maximum range for many existing cartridges and would be applicable to many more calibers.
@Dale37
2 жыл бұрын
Definitely a top three favorite podcast you have done.
@treasurestatetarantulas406
10 ай бұрын
I’ve had jacket core separation every time with the eldx and have even lost an animal with it. I see these guys really push the eldx like they been hired or something…
@cs7285
Жыл бұрын
Hornady/Vortex pods are what we need more of
@garypowell9006
9 ай бұрын
Mark asks thoughtful excellent questions. Thank you Mark.
@MrHf4l
2 жыл бұрын
Sounds like the new buzz word is “legacy”.
@OBSZIDIAN548
11 ай бұрын
I primarily shoot factory Hornady and Barnes, I am not impressed entirety with the ELDX at closer ranges. But at medium to extended ranges the bullet has shined for me. For all ranges and game the Barnes TTSX has been the go to
@nj-bz8pv
2 жыл бұрын
Maybe Hornady can talk about the terminal aspects of the Jab they forced on people
@milboltnut
2 жыл бұрын
keep gravitating back to the SST's I can't beat them.
@LiveSteven
2 жыл бұрын
Are you saying over the eldx?
@jonathanmitchell3733
2 жыл бұрын
Right tool for the job also applies to the sciences applied to the ballistics. The moment the Bullet strikes the animal, you have to start using Biology, and not just Physics.
@stormiewutzke4190
2 жыл бұрын
I think you should make this one a series if possible. I feel that internal balistics doesn't get talked about enough and should be a much bigger factor especially when choosing a rifle for hunting. After some unexpected bullet failure I am switching to premium bullets for deer as well as elk. Hornady is the only brand I have good availability for and what I have seen of the gilding metal monolithic bullets requires higher speeds for them to open well. Monolithic bullets are becoming a popular premium option but I think many don't think about the fact that if they had favored heavy bullets for penetration in the past they still probably want to step up lighter both do to the increased length but also needing that higher velocity at impact. Since they are going to penetrate better anyway higher speed will make for cleaner kills. For those who are realistic about their range many larger bores are actually going to make for the best option since do to the way internal balistics work they are going to give the highest velocity with the least amount of powder volume and shortest barrel length. Many magnums actually are loosing much of their advantage with short hunting length barrels anyway. The weight of the powder column along the jet affect of smaller bores is going to give them higher recoil to actual muzzle energy compared to the same energy produced by a larger bore and smaller case. What seems important is to keep the highest energy over the expected range and to pick a rifle that fits that in the weight and recoil a hunter finds best. This new long distance shooting trend has helped to make very light bullets be the popular thing but I think for many they struggle to see the whole picture and often pick a round based off of fewer factors than they should. It would be great to see more information get out there especially now when people are starting to realize that there is more to it than just how fast a bullet leaves the muzzle. With the right factory support something like the . 350 Rem mag using copper bullets in the lighter weights would have made this a fantastic elk rifle out to 300 yards but at the time it wasn't really ballanced enough with the factory ammo available. I think it would be great to get this information more mainstream since the average hunter doesn't sort through white papers and look for expansion studies at specific ranges although KZitem has gone a long way to improve this.
@jwg7993
11 ай бұрын
Amazing, NO NOTES! This is all in his head! Wow
@mattkempfe
2 жыл бұрын
Sub-X would have been nice to hear about. Is there a way you guys can hit that one up?
@aaronwilcox6417
2 жыл бұрын
Hey Hornady. Modern high b.c. bullets are fine and all but please offer more of those legacy bullets again. I use your 30 cal 220gr roundnose bullet. Those are really good even to 300yd. Excellent. Also we need more 338 cal 250gr and please make bullets for the 348win available.
@bullhunter20jw33
Жыл бұрын
Aaron Wilcox Exactly. Hornady needs to offer a Nosler Partition/Swift A-frame style cup and core type bullet that keeps some weight retention on short to medium range bone/heavy tissue type shots, with an advancement in bullet profile design. The new Federal Terminal Ascent bullet has done exactly this. Which is why you cant find them on a shelf anywhere. The ELD-x has proven to completely shed its core with violent expansion and little to no penetration on these types of shots. Terminal bullet performance matters more than anything else on hunting bullet design, including ballistic coeffecient. ELD-x bullets are target bullets on steroids. Nothing more.
@JackFrostTheDeerHunter
2 жыл бұрын
Great discussion...do you have a good reference guide that gives minimum velocity and still achieve proper expansion for Hornady bullets? I am interested in the SSTs and the ELD-X for deer in 30 cal guns.
@hornady
2 жыл бұрын
Minimum expansion velocity with the SST is 1800 fps. The ELD-X is 1600 fps.
@Aerosith
2 жыл бұрын
What is the minimum fps for expansion in cx bullets in a 308?
@EdAb
2 жыл бұрын
@@Aerosith In the following video they stated that the minimum expansion velocity for the CX bullet is 2000 fps. kzitem.info/news/bejne/mHqatIyqn4mWiqw
@leeturner3143
2 жыл бұрын
The GMX (now CX) is my deer hunting bullet of choice. Accurate across calibers and no lead bits in the meat. That said, 2000fps at impact does little more than dislodge the plastic tip. My tests (not scientific enough for most) suggest these bullets need closer to 2300 fps at impact to expand SUFFICIENTLY. There's a difference in "expansion" and proper expansion. Great bullets but not long range bullets due to higher impact velocity requirements. Check the expansion tests at various distances on the Frontline Rejects KZitem channel.
@archeryhunter86-
10 ай бұрын
@@hornadyWhats the maximum velocity to prevent early breaking apart on the ELDX?
@DavidJones-lw2lp
2 жыл бұрын
Absolutely epic, thank you guys for this. I could watch a 10 hour version quite happily! 👊🏻
@VortexNation
2 жыл бұрын
Happy to hear it! Thanks for being a part of Vortex Nation!
@daveodo4315
2 жыл бұрын
I’ve used hornady bullets on coyotes, wood bison, grizzly bear, black bear ,caribou and Yukon moose. I’ve always had great results with hornady bullets.
@thegoodguy729
Жыл бұрын
If only Hornady would start manufacturing 6.5 Grendel with their ELD-X bullets, I might think they really care about hunters. ELD match bullets are a poor hunting bullet yet that is all they have produced for the Grendel for over a year.
@stevendeatley4878
Жыл бұрын
I love Hornady 150grain spire points for my old 30-06.i loaded a ton of them back in the 1970s,with my dad.i still hunt with them.i have several ammo cans full .they are excellent for hunting deer and black bear .I trust Hornady bullets.
@Weatherby406
2 жыл бұрын
Iv been saying this for a long time. Velocity does matter. Guys shoot the 6.5 Creedmoor at game at 1000 yards and the gun doesn’t have the speed to open up the bullet. I’ll stick to Weatherby cartridges were I can get proper bullet expansion 300-400 yards further than standard cartridges.
@wildweasel6898
2 жыл бұрын
People are shooting game at way too long distances. I saw a guy on youtube shoot an elk with a 308 at 1000. The elk eventually died but it's so wrong.
@Juliamalave8989
2 жыл бұрын
First off, no one should be shooting an Animal at 1000 yards with a 6.5 creedmoor. I don’t know anyone who has. I personally would not take game at 1000, no matter the cartridge.I like to keep it 600ish and In. Velocity correlates with the cartridge size, powder volume and not the gun opening up, not sure what you mean by that. Length of barrel can give you an extra velocity increase about 100fps per 4 inches of barrel length, and the opposite for shorter barrels.
@atomicwedgie8176
Жыл бұрын
Hunters shoot 400yds and closer. Retards/non hunters shoot beyond 400yds...for bragging rights, I guess...sigh
@masonmcneill3969
2 жыл бұрын
Love the CX
@skfloutdoorsspringkingsfal7539
2 жыл бұрын
I understand this is your expert field and you know way more than me. But I’ve never seen a double lung hit deer live for hours much less days. Maybe I understood it wrong. I’m not criticizing I just wanna know and learn. I’ve seen a single lung deer live for a long time before death but every deer I have double lunged has never made it outside of 100yds.
@bosque1999
2 жыл бұрын
Just heard that BTHP bullets don't expand; is that also true for shorter ranges & higher velocities, say 100 yards or less? If so, seems like terminal performance would be about the same as FMJ? I'm using 6.5 Grendel, 123 gr. Thx.
@johnkeisterelquattro2553
2 жыл бұрын
So now I’m curious….. those SST type of bullets that are all a solid metal, the grooves that I’ve always wondered what they were for… now I know it’s for giving room for material to peel off and in to…. But now my question is…. Do those grooves get fully filled up with material so then once the projectile leaves the barrel…. It would now have a “solid” side (AKA: the grooves filled in fully) so that it would be more aerodynamic?? This was an AMAZING episode!! Many thanks y’all!! And I can’t wait to bring up kind of ballistics gel they use there with all those “what’s it do in gel?!?!” Type of idiots that naysay ANYTHING that isn’t shot into standard soft gels.
@terryslaton5582
2 жыл бұрын
SST bullets are cup and core lead. CX is the new monolithic with groves. The grooves reduce pressures since the monos are longer for weight.
@johnkeisterelquattro2553
2 жыл бұрын
@@terryslaton5582 OK. Regardless, my question is the gilded metal ones that have the groove in them, the Hornady guy here mentioned that those grooves are to allow space for any of the gilded metal to fill in to when traveling down the bore. So my question is, “Do those grooves completely fill up with the gilded metal and basically create a smooth sided projectile then once it leaves the muzzle?”
@terryslaton5582
2 жыл бұрын
They allow the copper cut by the rifling to go into the grooves instead i
@johnkeisterelquattro2553
2 жыл бұрын
@@terryslaton5582 I get that, as I stated in my comments. My question is….. Do the grooves fill allllllllll the way up with the cut copper, and then in a sense create then a smooth sided projectile with no grooves in it.
@bullhunter20jw33
Жыл бұрын
@@johnkeisterelquattro2553 No, the grooves are still intact and also designed in a way to create less aero drag after the bullet leaves the bore. Hornady explains this in one of their own videos.
@cristianespinal9917
2 жыл бұрын
I only hunt woods, so I'm not much of a practiced long-range shooter, but I can say that I love the Interlocks and V-Maxes in my rifles and the XTPs in my handguns. All of those have given me good accuracy and consistency in my handloads. The 140 .277" Interlock is the only one of those I've taken game with, and the buck trotted 15 yards on a double-lung shot before laying down to expire -- great performance.
@craigbenz4835
6 ай бұрын
So why has Hornady discontinued all of their bullets that I actually used? I'm pretty disgusted with them. On a positive note, my most memorable Hornady bullet performance memory was a quartering toward me doe I shot at 50 yards with a .30-'06 using a Hornady 180 gr. RN at 2580 fps. It entered the shoulder and exited forward of the hip. My most disappointing Hornady performances were from the .358" 200 gr. SP from a 350 Rem Mag at 2650 fps at 60 yards on black bear. One bear was never recovered, and a second one only had no exit wound or blood trail. When I found it there was only a little blood coming from the nose. I switched to the Sierra 225 gr. SPT at 2700 fps and have had no problems. One last Hornady story. I shot a buck at 70 yards with a Hornady .323" 195 gr. SP from an 8x57 at 2510 fps. The first shot hit the neck and dropped it in its' tracks. The bullet missed the spine, the deer got up, and a quartering toward shot dropped it a second time with complete pass through.
@jerrymartin5100
2 жыл бұрын
I know you are talking to Hornady, and I use the 308 Interlock bullets, never had a deer walk away form it, but the Nosler Partition and Accubond are great killers, close or far.
@nathant3897
2 жыл бұрын
We live in a great time for firearm technology including ammo. I know the first polymer tipped bullets I bought were very inconsistent but now they have them dialed.
@Dale37
2 жыл бұрын
I was talking to a sales guy at a local sporting goods store a couple weeks ago and heard the biggest pile of misinformation I have ever heard. LOL He said the 6.5 Creedmoor bullets are too fast for deer hunting, cause the bullets do not start expanding until after they exit the deer.🤣 I couldn't believe my ears when he said that.
@coreytohme9861
Жыл бұрын
😆How in the world has the .270 been used for so long then?
@thedirtygot9570
7 ай бұрын
My 6.5 RUGER American hates the 143 eldx, but loves the 130federal terminal ascent and 120cx! Hornady must use a 30 inch barrel to get the velocity they want😂
@jeremyshackelford8080
Ай бұрын
Tools and Targets just tested some 45-70 Leverevolution in a Derringer. In clear ballistics gell, IT STILL EXPANDED
@BG-st2dp
Жыл бұрын
Awesome video, super informative. The Hornady ballistician truly is a wealth of knowledge. The ELD bullets are amazing ballistically but I do wish hornady would at least acknowledge the large amounts of ELD-X exploding at closer range/high velocity...
@maccaspope2275
Жыл бұрын
Every bullet had a velocity range that their deisgned to function properly at. It's the shooters responsibility to use the bullet in that range.
@Cowboy.underwater
Жыл бұрын
Yeah, lots of people shooting the eldx are shooting big magnums at max velocity because “long rang hunting” is all the rage right now. The trouble is that physics is a thing, and a bullet that is capable of expanding 800meters down range is going to have trouble holding together when it hits an elk 75 yards away at Mach 3.
@maccaspope2275
Жыл бұрын
@@Cowboy.underwater And the thing is you don't even need a magnum for long range. A slower (2600-2900 fps), heavier, higher bc bullet will have enough range beyond most peoples shooting capabilities, and will work better up close and have less recoil. But unfortunately people think they need the biggest cartridge they can get, then theyre afraid to practice with it cause of cost or recoil, and they can't hit most things well enough to kill with it anyway
@Cowboy.underwater
Жыл бұрын
@@maccaspope2275 Preach
@archeryhunter86-
10 ай бұрын
@@maccaspope2275It would help if the bullet makers would post the velocity ranges the bullet is designed for.
@justinbriggs1514
2 жыл бұрын
I'm confused. According to the ammo library in the Hornady app the 165 gr .308 GMX has a BC of .447. Same caliber and weight CX has a BC of .440. What am I missing?
@denisleblanc4506
2 жыл бұрын
If you look at the drawings on their site you'll notice the longer but narrower hollow cavity in the GMX tipped by a smaller plastic tip. The copper alloy around that cavity is thicker and will tend to open slower. The CX bullet has a shorter but wider cavity meaning the copper alloy around the cavity is thinner and will tend to open more quickly. The CX should deform more at slower velocity impacts (or longer ranges.) As for the difference in BC, it may very well come down to bullet shape. They are still limited by bullet length allowed for their various loads so they probably changed the shape slightly so it would still fit in the cartridges they load (cartridge base to ogive length) and lost a little in BC. Small differences in BC are negligible in hunting. They only become important at very long distances. From a hunting perspective, bigger differences in BC become important at long ranges where you want the bullet to still have an impact velocity sufficient to allow bullet deformation and give you less bullet drift.
@fivex4756
2 жыл бұрын
I will second that the bullet shape is different. At same muzzle velocity the trajectories are different, confirming the different BCs. If you are not using a 4DOF or similar calculator,, at Hornady /support/ballistic-coefficient is concept worth knowing.
@justinbriggs1514
2 жыл бұрын
I was surprised it didn't have a higher BC because Ryan starts a conversation about how good the BC is at about 1:12:20. Made it sound like it was higher than the GMX... but it's not. Lower expansion velocity would be great too.
@denisleblanc4506
2 жыл бұрын
@@justinbriggs1514 I checked on their site and you're right. Almost across the board the CX has lower BC than GMX. This would mean lower striking velocities at longer ranges that probably means the CX will mushroom more quickly than the GMX or has a lower minimum velocity. They probably did this so it would work better on medium power loads.
@dtmelanson
2 жыл бұрын
Just fantastic information. An absolute masters class.
@wayneleonhardt9841
Жыл бұрын
One of the best, and informative videos on the internet! Thanks so much, Jayden!!!
@j.r.6271
Жыл бұрын
What differentiates a bullet 'pencilling' through an elk from the complete ditching of expansion to get necessary penetration on the big African game? If you can get "full" terminal performance on the large game with little-to-no expansion or turbulent deposition of energy, why then do we demonize the same situation used on a smaller animal (not that elk are necessarily small)? On a deer or an elk, we call it pencilling a needle hole and list it as a failure, but on a big animal that is the entire desire? My best guess is, on the larger animals, we are taking them at such a close range that shot placement hindrances like drop and drift are less of an issue so proper placement through the gold sack is easier, therefore we have less need for additional assistance from energy deposition in a situation we otherwise would need, such as a longer shot on elk or deer where we just miss the vitals, but can generate some temporary cavity damage from the sheer velocity versus the elastic threshold of tissue. The large dangerous game example is a close-range back-to-basics form of killing much like an arrow versus the leeway we try to take with expansion at distance to increase range and ditch a bit of recoil because we no longer need as much penetration since our cartridge's penetration already overclocks the required vital depth of the animal, yes?
@mikechance3138
Жыл бұрын
A controlled expansion, consistent bullet, that passes through and through is the most important for me. I need full pass through for a solid blood trail. I need it to perform consistently at 40 yards or 400 yards. The Interlock BTSP, or similar (Nosler Partition) provide that. I hunt whitetail and hogs in deep south Texas brush country, where it's vitally important to anchor the animal where it stands, but if it runs, leaves a well defined blood trail into the almost impenetrable thorn brush. I tried SST's and in every case they failed to thoroughly penetrate the animals and in each case they animal some substantial distance. This resulted in my only lost animal in 50 years of hunting. I've recently purchased Precision Hunter ELD-X's, but have yet to see the terminal performance on an animal in the field. My opinion is that BC is a moot point at reasonable hunting ranges inside 1/4 mile (440 yards).
@bullhunter20jw33
Жыл бұрын
Mike Chance right on! My thoughts exactly! Check out the new Federal Terminal Ascent bullet. Hands down better terminal performance design than any of Hornady's currently offered cup and core bullets. Pushing high BC numbers is a marketing scheme to sell bullets to people who dont understand good terminal performance on game.
@ronaldroehrick4872
Жыл бұрын
BC is relevant until you get past 350 or 400 yards, bullet construction and velocity are far more important in the killing game.
@Blair338RUM
5 ай бұрын
The core can still separate on an Interlock. It’s not a complete mechanical stop. Solids are a poor choice for an opening shot on dangerous game….they just pencil through.
@georgeprice7046
8 ай бұрын
What is the lowest velocity of the CX since i hear speed is what makes the monolithic bullets to open? What is also the lowest velocity for max expansion?
@bobcole9274
10 ай бұрын
I am a year late watching this, so interesting I extended the view time by nearly an hour. Great topic. I wonder if Jayden is able to hunt without all those facts getting i n the way when trigger time comes?
@stevenbekkering4323
10 ай бұрын
Lol. Yeah, in my early years of reloading, I picked the wrong bullet too.
@ditzydoo4378
2 жыл бұрын
The odd bullet out in terms of velocity required would be Barnes "Varmint Grenade". This copper-tin powder filled; super thin jacket will literally detonate even at sub-sonic velocities.
@NorthRiverGuide
2 жыл бұрын
I haven't had that experience. I have a couple recovered bullets at 1900fps shot into pigs with frontal brain shot. The side of the cavity started rupturing and that was it.
@williamjarman7466
2 жыл бұрын
I have Hunted with a 65 PRC with the 142 ELD X. I've killed three Arizona whitetail deer with it. I believe the velocity of the PRC is too high for the eldx bullets. These are small deer and the bullets did not penetrate both sides. I have two other friends one with the 260 Remington the other with the 65 Creedmoor. Both of their cartridges the bullet went through and exited the other side. While they both killed effectively the PRC left a lot of lead and copper fragments in the deer while the slower-moving 260 Remington and 65 Creedmoor did not leave any fragments in the deer. I would prefer to not leave fragments in the meat. Deer I shot with the PRC were at 300 yards my friends experience is probably a similar average distance that seems to be the distance we get them at or further rarely closer.
@Sanquinar
2 жыл бұрын
I wouldn't say that the velocity is too high for the ELD-X, as it still kills well closer in while granting you the long range performance you buy the PRC for, its just sounds like you're getting excessive meat damage. If you're worried about meat damage closer in you could switch to a bonded bullet, or go down in case capacity/caliber and have typically cheaper ammo and less recoil and all the benefits entailed with that.
@terryslaton5582
2 жыл бұрын
Might try an Interlock bullet.
@cabochris100
Жыл бұрын
So why in many vids, the core separates on ELD-X bullets?😮
@BrockOBauma
2 жыл бұрын
Interesting point about the accuracy of bonded bullets. I'd never heard that and thought the piss poor accuracy I got with bonded bullets in my .243 was just a quirk of my individual rifle.
@bobmcmillen4502
2 жыл бұрын
I shoot Nosler ABLR’s in all my guns ( I reload) and they’re all all sub-moa. 30-06, 270, 6.5 prc, 7mm Rem Mag. Very accurate bullet.
@lonecrapshooter6197
2 жыл бұрын
Excellent video, do another down the rabbit holes you touched on.
@Manbunmen65
Ай бұрын
Hornady for breaking in a new barrel. Federal when you're ready to go hunting.
@AlaskanBallistics
Жыл бұрын
The eldx shatters like a Vmax within 300 yards on a caribou bone
@mj23isthebest
2 жыл бұрын
Next time bring up the 6.5bc
@blakelafleurCECOLC
2 жыл бұрын
I might have missed this and I apologize if I did but I have a question about the outfitter line from Hornady…. What powder do they use? Specifically in the 6.5creed but I’d be interested in other calibers as well. I can’t find that info anywhere online. (Don’t have the updated loading manual so if someone can answer this for me I’m all ears) TIA
@blakelafleurCECOLC
2 жыл бұрын
For anyone out there that has this same question…..I called Hornady and asked and their answer was, “It depends on the lot, but most of the time they use H4350. Good to know!
@VortexNation
2 жыл бұрын
An excellent question! Typically, the ammunition manufacturer will use an undisclosed powder in the production line of a very large lot - it is not atypical to find that they'll keep information close to the vest. It would be worth a shot to reach out to Hornady, as they may be willing to relinquish this! - Ryan M
@buckshot2614
5 ай бұрын
Man listening to this guy talk about the causes of death to a deer was painful. It’s like he was trying his best to come up with 1,000 words to complete his essay.
@ActinOut
Жыл бұрын
Loads of great information here. One point I disagree with was the concept that a hollow point will work like an ice pick going right through. I've actually shot a mule deer with a hornady hollow point because I ran into a situation where I brought the wrong ammo box by accident. So I took what I had and made the shot. The hole going in was the size of the diameter of a pencil. The exit hole was the size of one and a half of my hands fully open with all fingers completely expanded, and it was not clean. In between the entrance and exit holes, all tissue was shredded in an expansive manner the further the bullet went through. It was very evident that as the copper of the bullet tore and curled back it was both compressing tissue and cutting it to pieces. I really questioned if it was also tumbling through compressing & cutting as it went. It didn't simply tear through slightly bigger than the bullet in a similar manner to the shape of an icecicle (long & narrow). As soon as halfway through, there was little left of entire organs. The heart, which was only partly in the path, was completely fragmented. As we're most of the vitals. While there was obviously little energy transfer (punch) impact transfered to the animal, most vital organs were obliterated. There were jagged slice tear marks all over the place on all vital organs. Maybe the bullet broke up and became shrapnel, sending pieces everywhere to slice everything up and still all exit creating the large hole. Though we ran into no fragments in processing or eating the meat. Looking from the exit side, it looked like a shotgun blast hole. It was far from a long, narrow icepick wound.
@MrBurdinekl
Жыл бұрын
I enjoy your vids, very informative, but they are really long! Perhaps they could be indexed by specific topic along the timeline??
@MrBurdinekl
Жыл бұрын
Now it is indexed. Thanks!
@craigbenz4835
6 ай бұрын
Bring back the .430" 265 gr. FP and the .375" 220 gr. FP.
@theowenssailingdiary5239
Жыл бұрын
Eldm vs eldx is a draw folks. Close range included.. If you hit a Sambar deer at 30m it IS going to reach the vitals, and most importantly will cause absolute devastation. You can't start with the presupposition that fragmentation of all sorts is bad.. .Do the testing... I only use eldx because I can rarely find eldm. If anybody has ever heard of Nathan Foster from NZ then they would bag the eldm.
@garrychildress1373
Жыл бұрын
I must be behind the times on hunting bullets. A 154 grain interlock from my 7x57 Mauser (loaded to the capacity of the Remington 700 I fire it from) Has killed every deer I've shot it at from 0-400 yards.
@albertlemont5471
11 ай бұрын
My son just took his first whitetail with a 6.5 120CX loaded to about 2950fps 220 yards. This combination is lightning on deer. The damage was contianed completely in the chest cavity without excessive "collateral damage".
@benwallace4581
2 жыл бұрын
When will the SST bullets get the heat shield tip?!
@jjgriffin3275
Жыл бұрын
my questions would have been,.... why brass for cases? why copper for bullets and not other metals?
@Airon79
2 жыл бұрын
So basically what ya'll are saying is : don't shoot the super velocity bullets like 300 WMR , 30-06 , 270 , 25-06 , etc. at close yardage , say under 500 yards , but to use lower velocity rounds , like 5.56 , 9mm , 6mm , 308 , shotguns , etc , etc at close yardage ( from the barrel to maybe 500 yards ) at game . Which makes since since some rounds appear to explode at close ranges . Speaking of shotguns I was not liking that a lot of shotgun slugs are leaded and they appear to leave a mess and since there is a shortage on ammo , in particular for a .410 and I have seen that Hornady sells a 41 magnum round ( Hornady 41000 ) that I believe is jacketed and maybe bonded if that would fit into an .410 shell ? Another curiosity is if the .410 has been downpowered due to it being considered a kiddie gun , I believe 13k psi shell power , if it's possible to power it up to say 20k or 28k ? Which 28k is what I think most shotguns average ? Also was thinking about 28 gauge due to that gauge seems to have ammo on the shelf or atleast bird shot but would an old school .54 blackpowder round fit in a 28 gauge without having to use wads to make up for tolerances or do ya'll make a specific slug say something that is size of barrel which i believe is .55 " ; preferably FMJ'd and bonded ?
@C.Griffin
2 жыл бұрын
Excellent Podcast. Loved every second. Thanks Hornady and Jayden for the great knowledge and information. I would love to see Jayden return. Thanks Vortex, Mark and Ryan, another great show.
@VortexNation
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for tuning in! Glad you enjoyed it!
@C.Griffin
2 жыл бұрын
@@VortexNation all the way from Australia 🇦🇺
@seanprados4829
Жыл бұрын
Yep, that is why I'm not using Hornady anymore. Two of the best bullets in there loaded ammo was Interbond and GMX. 150 grain shots big hole in my 308+30-06
@markcarew6724
Жыл бұрын
Stop lying, Hornady - Your ELD-X bullets consistently have core/jacket separation at most reasonable velocities.
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