Somehow, Seth took the tired trope of "what if gay/trans was the norm and straight/cis people were seen as bad" and made it work in the context of an alien civilization. Don't be fooled into thinking this is anti-trans/gay rhetoric. This is very much meant to be an analog for for how trans people feel.
@Briselance
6 ай бұрын
Made it work? The Moclans force transition at birth. I am still wondering how they reproduce.
@ehtresih9540
3 ай бұрын
They lay eggs @@Briselance
@xavierescano4559
3 ай бұрын
you have it the other way around lol, considering topha was forced to transition at birth.
@justataco1776
3 ай бұрын
@@xavierescano4559 Hmm, let's see, someone being forced to adhere to a specific identity that they're unhappy with by a bigoted society and being demonized by family members because she wants to follow her own identity? Yeah this is very much a pro-trans story. Only difference is the script is flipped, but it's still ultimately a story about someone's identity not matching with what society deems as "normal"
@DeathnoteBB
3 ай бұрын
It’s more about intersex people being given surgery
@johnwang9914
2 жыл бұрын
To a certain extent, most people have felt this way especially during puberty. Question is can it be addressed.
@IRMentat
2 жыл бұрын
Good role models, time, physical & mental activity plus a whole heap of peers/confidents to share experiences with. Puberty is the natural biology awakening in a body that’s taken over a decade to grow to the first phase of maturity. Sadly most of these are lacking in modern education. Low-effort tasks, sloppy support and pushy-tutors who encourage the vulnerable to medicate to dampen their fears seems to be the current fad/trend.
@johnwang9914
2 жыл бұрын
@@IRMentat Keep in mind that society, culture and media from the first pink for girls and blue for boys are immense pressure to push the child towards adopting their birth gender regardless of how they actually feel. Is it good role models to say you are just your physical birth gender or a good role model to look at how you actually feel regardless of what others including social media say... Puberty is obviously change and everyone feels out of place, it's sorting through that without the pressures of society, culture, parents and media especially social media or even the concept of belonging to anything at all that matters. The therapists need to demonstrate that it may not just be dysphoria as they may be assuming from the media they receive, that it may be many other possible factors for how they feel and gender reassignment may not be the solution and some gender reassignment measures are permanent, however it also can't be denied that there is naturally overwhelming pressure to just accept your birth gender to begin with. I certainly believe that the guidelines for diagnosing dysphoria are either just insufficient or being ignored by too many but correcting this problem is not by pushing the premise that your physical birth gender dictates your mental gender. If a child told me they were depressed due to gender dysphoria, I would first ask where did you learn that term, then I would ask how did they feel before they learned the term and what might be the cause if they had not known of dysphoria. I would also stress that serious problems often are from the interaction of many problems not just one so what else might contribute to how you feel and if you could address the dysphoria, what else might still be an obstacle. Would addressing the dysphoria solve the other problems or enable you to address the other problems, can you address the other problems first to see if addressing the dysphoria is even necessary... The last thing I would say is to look at some masculine or feminine role model and say see how happy they are, those polarities only encourage the view that you have to be one or the other and hence the belief that you might be the wrong one as you're not as happy as those "role models".
@jakethepillowsnake5302
2 жыл бұрын
I think you're missing the part where she said she had been depressed basically her whole life. Many people feel lost and depressed during puberty, but by the time topa hit her teenage years, she felt that way so long was on the verge of attempting suicide.
@johnwang9914
2 жыл бұрын
@@jakethepillowsnake5302 No, I didn't miss that at all as I only said especially during puberty, I wasn't denying longer term concerns. There are still many who have had concerns about their gender identity often from when they were toddlers, the concept if transgender is a spectrum after all. The question is whether or not it is necessary to take the extreme actions needed to match the extreme polarization expected by culture as after all it is a spectrum. Of course, in this story, it isn't simply being on the spectrum that is the concern but that she had been forcibly altered surgically without her permission or knowledge. Really this story caters to the questionable believe that everyone id naturally polarized in their gender identity at birth. Though it does explore our societies current difficulties in accepting transgender individuals, it's also a mockery by implying there was an extreme polarization from their physical characteristics at birth. Our society expects polarizations to the extremes of the spectrum and encourages it from our first clothes, our first toys and even how the nursery room may be decorated whereas even if nature does tend towards polarization, it's far likely to be less than what our society expects and hence feeling a bit out of place with one's gender identity for much of your life is most likely not that unusual.
@jakethepillowsnake5302
2 жыл бұрын
Extreme actions is really vague term. Anyone with gender dysphoria should consult with their medical practitioners to determine the best course of treatment. How extreme that is depends on how severe the dysphoria is and what's right for that particular patient.
@vexxama
2 жыл бұрын
I’ve been there. When I was a teen to now. Some days still I’m not happy. Not sad or depressed, just not happy, like I’m detached from my own life. Topas reasons were specific, mine are more vague, but like topa here it helps to talk to others. Gain perspective, see new viewpoints, seek support. Being alone often makes things worse, and the people who care for you will never see such worries as a burden
@akashshetty5112
2 жыл бұрын
This dialogue is so emotionally powerful. ❤
@CheshireCat-cm1si
Жыл бұрын
Kelly would be such a good mom.
@LGranthamsHeir
Жыл бұрын
Topa surely grows up fast, just like her alter ego Alexander Rozhenko
@franciscorui
Жыл бұрын
I think I would've been a better idea to have Topa's actor be a guy then have a switch at the official change.
@i.cant.sleep.anymore
Ай бұрын
I love Topa 😢
@uchihaitachi181
2 жыл бұрын
I wish this plot had gone on longer, but it feels a little…rushed(?), this should have been a multi episode long plot thread exploring what else could have been causing Topa to feel this way. Just hear me out for a moment, Cmdr. Grayson sortof assumed at face value that it was Topa feeling a gender dysphoria and not looking at likely other external factors. We know from what we have seen of Moclan society and from what we have observed from Klyden and Bortus we can make inferences of external factors. Bortus and Klyden don’t appear to have the healthiest of relationships having gotten into several verbal and physical altercations with some level of frequency. That could be a factor in Topa’s unhappiness and feeling a lack of belonging should she have been more pacifistic in personality compared to her more combative parentage. Moclas comes across as a fairly aggressive, nearly xenophobic species akin to the Cardassians of Star Trek. Now if this is a natural state of their overall makeup then being more accepting and comfortable around females than your typical Moclan, considering she’s spent her life in and among other females it could be a sortof “missing piece” and thus leading to her unhappiness. We should have seen maybe family therapy sessions, little hints that while this X factor could be the root cause it is ultimately proven not to be by Topa’s reaction or enacting something that’s more typical among Moclans. Before culminating to Topa’s discovery of her true self as a female, maybe seeing some sort of old film/cartoon or story she read for the pieces to fall into place for herself, like Bortus after watching Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer.
@stephenfarthing3819
2 жыл бұрын
Very interesting theory - and it fits most certainly, many of the facts. The Moclans have a very male orientated viewpoint and that is certainly not dissimilar to the Cardassians. Females are considered a aberration and whilst I don't hold any admiration of this. It is a myopically challenged view. Females are just as capable as males. And this has followed up through Orville. Topa is not comfortable with his existence. And like Hitchhiker Guide to the Galaxy. Has found that 6 X 7 does not equal 42. And the disparity is 7 X 7 instead which comes to 49. It's been that disparity that Topa finds unsettling. Hence his unhappy state of mind.
@PariahRonin
2 жыл бұрын
Well yes the plot is rushed - topa was a baby 2 years ago Orville time- now Topa is a nearing adulthood…
@uchihaitachi181
2 жыл бұрын
@@PariahRonin You misunderstand what I mean, I mean specifically how Topa felt like she was missing a piece, of herself before discovering she is female and not male.
@PariahRonin
2 жыл бұрын
@@uchihaitachi181 except for that you'd have to make her a series regular to have the ongoing plot - Topa isn't.
@uchihaitachi181
2 жыл бұрын
@@PariahRonin Not necessarily true, several characters in other shows are considered main cast/regular but aren’t always around. Garak only became a regular around late season 3-season 4 of Deep Space 9 but had his brief episodes in the earlier parts of the series, he was relegated to guest roles before Garak really had meat to offer. You wouldn’t even have the make the episodes congruent, spread them over the season or maybe 2 seasons as a guest star appearance. Actually a better example would be Kassidy Yates, she was guest in seasons 3 and 5 and was bumped to recurring during 4 and 6. The point I’m trying to make is Topa wouldn’t need to be around all the time for this story thread to be an interesting and more thoughtful experience, introduce the idea early in the season, sprinkle between 2-4 episodes where it functions as an A plot for one or two and a B plot for one or two, then culminate in maybe a two parter towards the end of the season. Admittedly I have to concede, modern televisions series have seemingly given up on the 25-30 episode seasons where a lot of this could be spread out a bit more. My preference for the Topa storyline would require a far longer season than most networks seem want to commit to.
@dragon22214
Жыл бұрын
She could feel that are body wasnt the one she was mesnt for and unlike reality the viewers know she is right
@raymondedge8889
7 ай бұрын
A good argument for not changing the natural gender of our children.
@leonardo899
2 жыл бұрын
I remember depressed when I was a teen. I also remember being very suggestable as a teen. I'm sure glad I'm not a teen nowadays. Some idiot would tell me that I was depressed because I was born in the wrong sex, and I would be stupid enough to believe it.
@jakethepillowsnake5302
2 жыл бұрын
Topa was born female. But hey, don't let facts stand in the way of taking your shot at gender affirming healthcare.
@pca1987
Жыл бұрын
That happens a lot. Unfortunately.
@henryreed4697
Жыл бұрын
I mean, some teens whom are depressed are so because they feel as though they were born the wrong sex. You can't argue that their own experience with a gender identity crisis is invalid because your own situation was different.
@leonardo899
Жыл бұрын
@@henryreed4697 I agree, SOME kids. But there's a lot sick teachers telling kids the reason they are depressed is because they are in the wrong body. Most kids are facing depression because of reasons completely unrelated to their sexual identity. But there's a lot of perverted school counselors telling kids that their depression stems from them being in the wrong body.
@henryreed4697
Жыл бұрын
@@leonardo899 you're using very emotive language here. Why can't counsellors offer advice to these depressed teens? Surely these teens should explore all possible avenues about the cause of their depression. Offering alternative view points isn't "sick" or "perverted". I must know where you've heard these stories about teachers and counselors doing this, because it just sounds like you're exaggerating the story here if I'm being completely honest.
@kenshindoman9757
2 жыл бұрын
It really is a shame what happened with this show. Season 1 was great. Full of laughs whilst keeping a storyline. Season 2 wasn't as funny, but was still fairly enjoyable. But season 3 seems to be less about being a Star Trek spoof and making us laugh, and more about pushing the whole transgender/gay/LBG...whatever nonsense down our throats. The Orville has really become nothing more than a leftist propaganda piece. There's no entertainment value to it anymore.
@christianhofer5020
2 жыл бұрын
Why does gender has to be a left topic? Of course it is anoying how some groups deal with it (on the right and left side), however it has to be dealt with.
@ravenquinn7774
2 жыл бұрын
TOS- pushed women working in command positions, an at the time "leftist" view TOS- pushed interracial equal workplace, at the time and even currently a "leftist" view TNG- pushed insterspecial equality, intercultural respect, and self identity, all "leftist" views Voyager- ...do i really need to go into it? DS9- is literally about racial (in this case speciest) trauma, dangers of wrongful appropriation, the mutual growth intercultural exchange can bring, the dangers of radicalized religion and oligarchal oppression, etc. all "leftist" views "Star Trek’s political philosophy is rooted in radical liberalism, not Marxism. It’s about radical change, and the abiding potential for radical change, but in a non-revolutionary context buttressed by respect for the rule of law. " "The show’s first draft, titled “Star Trek is…” described the show as such: “A one-hour dramatic television series. The first such concept with strong central lead characters plus other continuing regulars.” The series would feature allegories of contemporary cultural and social issues, making its morality tales that much more cohesive and tangible for audiences. Roddenberry’s world would operate under Roddenberry’s rules, allowing him to make social comments on sex, religion, science, and the ongoing political conflicts of the era. The 1960s were one of the most volatile times in American history, and Roddenberry saw it as an opportunity to provide audiences with something uplifting and optimistic about the future. It had a political agenda, sure, and took a progressive stance beside the emerging counterculture of America’s youth. It was his vision of where he hoped humanity would someday evolve, learning from the mistakes of its past." "“Star Trek” has been many things throughout its 55 years, but it remains celebrated certainly for the anti-racism of its “Original Series” run from 1966 to 1969, which presented the first kiss on U.S. television between a white man (William Shatner) and Black woman (Nichelle Nichols). The very idea of Nichols’ Uhura being a senior bridge officer on the Enterprise was radical in 1966, and when the actress thought about leaving the show, Martin Luther King Jr. himself told her that her role was representation so valuable she should stay. “I think the ideas my father presented in the ‘60s were significant then, and perhaps even more significant now,” Rod said." Like, dude, have you actually watched star trek? or are you just one of the bandhoppers trying to fuck up things because you're unsatisfied yourself that the show challenges your prejudices?
@1917girl
2 жыл бұрын
it's not meant to be a parody of star trek, it's an homage. star trek contained tons of themes that were far ahead of their time, which challenged the viewer. the same can be said of this show. if you choose to be offended by it, that's your problem. you can always just not watch it. it's also not "pushing" anything, it's making you think about it, it's trying to make you actually have an intelligent thought for once, rather than just being drivel to throw on the screen. I'm embarrassed for you. also the topa episode is literally one episode.
@cactash5761
2 жыл бұрын
Star trek has always been leftist and about viewing societal issues through the lens of scifi. From the first episodes of TOS the show has been pushing boundaries about equality and social justice. If you don't want leftist shows don't watch star trek inspired stuff
@havenwalton7206
2 жыл бұрын
Ken, you ever like Star Trek? If you did and posted this? Then you're the reason why we as a species won't have anything near that timeline.
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