Yep. The mechanical puzzle in Elden Ring is far more interesting than in previous souls games. I have been playing since DS1 but nostalgia won't blind me here.
@Ontos99
6 ай бұрын
Yeah I agree and can't wait for what Miyazaki has in store for us in the DLC
@makia3
8 ай бұрын
This is coming from a guy with 400 hrs on ER and I’ve also played all the other games in the series and whilst I agree with you on your points you don’t realize that the game actively discourages this play style. How they discourage it 1: they hide the posture bar 2: playing aggressively makes bosses pull out harder to learn combos 3: high damage for most players/casuals who haven’t played actually difficult games and think that souls games are the hardest games out there go touch nioh 2 and find out what high damage really is. 4: they shower you with items encouraging players to play with summons, or spells/incantations or use broken weapons. All these things make players think the bosses are bs because they are allowed to pass the challenge without learning anything through the broken builds and summons. How I’d fix this is I’d put a tutorial in the round table that teaches you about these mechanics explicitly for example a boss that will only die through posture break and riposte attacks or a boss that teaches you that you can jump over boss attacks or a boss that teaches you about positioning based combo branch points and I’d also add a posture bar to encourage the play style I could go on but you get the idea.
@Ontos99
8 ай бұрын
there is a reason why From soft didnt "force" aggression as a gameplay mechanic unlike Sekiro. Because it doesnt fit all playstyles. Most magic builds cant work with this system. Elden ring primarily rests on "freedom" as its philosophy so showing the posture bar would mean it is making some builds less optimal by "alluding to posture breaking and aggression" and unlike in sekiro, they would absolutely not make bosses "so tedious" to kill like sekiro without aggression because that would go against said freedom and pigeonhole the player to use specific builds. As a result they have found the middle ground. Passivity enables the player to beat the boss BUT reduces the fun factor and battle takes waay longer. But if you do posture break, you are being more aggressive, kill the boss faster and enjoy the rhythm more. The reward is that mechanical enjoyment. And this is not something newcomers are expected to do. The variety of builds are there for these people to experiment and create their own fun with minimal pattern recognition or however much one desires to decipher the pattern.
@Ontos99
8 ай бұрын
But I also understand what you mean. I plan to upload more videos like this, subscribe to be notified!
@makia3
8 ай бұрын
@@Ontos99 Because it doesn’t fit all play styles doesn’t mean it’s well designed nor is it a good defence because most people play pure melee anyway and they don’t even need to add a posture bar they could have just added melee specific tutorial focusing on posture break.
@JoseViktor4099
5 ай бұрын
I might believe you have a point on saying that ER doesnt have a poor Boss design, instead the issue is tutorial management. That said, showing the posture bar would incentiviced an "correct" playstile that isn't really the point of ER Imo. Is just a fun and effective playstile, but if It was the correct they would had deleted all the spells, sorceries, miracles and everything not related to a melee build, like Sekiro did. The real issue I find is how similar ER is to DS3 on a surface. Really, make a photo of both without hud and ask how many people would think is the same Game. I feel that the real issue is that ER failed to say that playing like on order Souls games is not viable. And teach the mechanics they can use sort of like AC6 . I mean, every dungeon easy to find could teach you something.
@makia3
5 ай бұрын
@@JoseViktor4099 they could incentivize that play style whilst keeping everything else in. All they really needed to do was add an optional tutorial to teach players how to play pure melee. And I’m not saying the game needs a posture bar because once you’re playing for posture break you can sense when you’re about to break a enemies posture.
@GodWarsX
3 ай бұрын
I've always enjoyed Joseph Anderson's content, but his Elden Ring video (specifically boss mechanic critiques) may be the most off the mark he's ever been. It had a drastic impact on the discourse and general opinion surrounding this game.
@Ontos99
3 ай бұрын
I also really enjoy Joseph Anderson videos except for his Elden Ring one
@highlightermarca-texto3281
9 ай бұрын
I think Michael Zaki's biggest "mistake" was letting people cruise through the whole game with how easy it is to get overpowered gear, while simultaneously not doing enough to teach the new combat design. Like Sekiro was such a drastic departure from Souls, From decided to partner with Activision because they knew how to write better tutorials, and they didn't want players getting confused. It doesn't seem like they placed that much thought into Elden Ring's tutorials. The tutorial cave basically just teaches you basic controls, but doesn't do enough to communicate how important diversifying your moveset is (compared to DS3's roll+R1 meta). There isn't even any demonstration that you can use jump to avoid low attacks I don't really know how it could be done with FromSoft's usual vagueness though. Only idea I had was making the boss of the tutorial cave take very little damage from regular attacks, but massive damage from criticals, and they do the Margit thing where they combo cancel and jump away if you roll in the "wrong" direction, but with much simpler moves than Margit. Because while I agree with you that Margit is a great tutorial boss for the game's mechanics in theory, the lesson 90% of players took away is that this isn't a skill game and they should just go away and come back when their numbers are higher. ALSO a suggestion if you keep doing your club run, I suggest picking up throwing daggers. I've done a RL1 run with and without daggers, and with is so much more fun. You can always avoid the awakward stare down bosses have by throwing a dagger and immidiately rolling their followup.
@Ontos99
9 ай бұрын
One thing about using throwables that is creating an issue in my lvl 1 run is that I enjoy the mechanic of making sure posture bar doesnt reset. Throwing a dagger means Im adding pressure to the posture bar. Im sure it is fun tho I might try it after this. I want to show how posture breaking often is feasable with a low reach weapon like club and thats all you need! In fact I have mastered Crucible knight evergoal club lvl 1 no parry recently and defeated him literally enjoying the experience so much that Im baffled why more people are not talking about how amazing that evergoal is. I also enoyed him a lot in my 1st playthrough but this time I've realized how amazing he is on a profound level. Playing him with a club is so different than a claymore. Either that or i've mastered him more than my 1st playthrough
@Ontos99
9 ай бұрын
So that CK analysis is coming showing my beginner to mastery process. It was so enjoyable for me. I hope you look forward to it. That will be the next video! Click the bell to not miss it if you are interested
@highlightermarca-texto3281
9 ай бұрын
I already subscribed :) Looking forward to it@@Ontos99
@Maceyoshiman
6 ай бұрын
It's great seeing more Elden Ring analyses from informed players. A lot of people really don't understand the importance of positioning and aggression in this game. My only complaint with ER is I feel it does a poor job of teaching the player how to properly play melee only. I did a parry/dagger run and loved it, but my God you really need outside information if you want to excel at the game. Trying to master the bosses _just_ through trial and error is agonizing because you can't really tell what you can parry. If it wasn't for ThingFishy's parry tutorials I probably wouldn't have been able to beat Melania and the other elite bosses.
@Ontos99
6 ай бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it! I hope you look forward to my lore videos as well. Are you interested in it?
@scotaloo77g73
8 ай бұрын
1:41 This is not a mindset issue, it's the game's fault. It's easier to defeat a boss than to learn their branching attacks and find extra punish windows. If the game's boss design only becomes fun after replaying the entire game and going out of your way to learn every minute detail of a boss's moveset, the design is flawed. Basically no one is interested in going through the whole game with an "experimental mindset" because to most people, it's a massive waste of time since they aren't interested in optimizing bosses. Even the ones who defend the boss design didn't do this on their first playthrough. Nasu did all bosses RL1 no hit. He knows how to play the game and where the openings are. He still complained about the boss design just like anyone else. It's just flawed.
@Ontos99
8 ай бұрын
Allow me to address the first part. I want to make it absolutely clear that I've played elden ring mastering 80-100% of moveset of all bosses in my first playthrough extremely low vigor until the final boss rush section (Maliketh onwards + Malenia - I've increased it around 45 vigor as those two bosses started to even push me to my limits first playthrough) so I was having incredible fun even the late game and I was impressed how Malenia forced my hand to increase my vigor. Maybe other people played it OP their 1st playthrough and thats fair! The game makes it very easy to get OP via stats around Liurna onwards. But that wasnt my experience knowing how these games work. Another point, there is no such thing as 'going out of your way to learn the boss moveset'. This is how these games are (in my opinion) meant to be played. Not by brute force. Elden ring is EXTREMELY demanding in terms of boss AI complexity and aggression. Regardless of how easy or hard the game gets in relation to your build. These guys are relentless. Finally making a no hit run doesnt mean you will exploit every weakness and posture break the boss as much you think. In fact, a no hit run makes sure you wont look for the harder to execute punish windows or 'initiative aggression' at all since you want to get a 'clean' run without risks. A no hit on the SAME level of aggression I've utilized with Margit on my final 2 runs here. Now THATS very impressive. In fact, to make my point clearer, I've just defeated the Crucible knight evergoal club lvl 1 in a way I'd describe as 'with style' and I've watched about 15+ 'no hit run' on this guy and none of them even remotely created an engaging and aggressive rhythm in the name of 'punishing only the safest windows and running away'. RARELY did they posture break the Crucible knight without parrying (no one even plays this guy without a shield because of his aggression) wheres in my run (which I'll upload in 2 days to my channel. I hope you look forward to it) Crucible knight was on his knees EVERY 9 seconds. Club LVL1 no parry. I'm not sure who Nasu is (I'll check him out now tho) but doing all bosses RL1 no hit doesnt mean he created an engaging rhythm LET ALONE reliably posture broken all bosses which is where the fun lies. Anyone who plays a boss for a very long time can bait out a few moves for safe punishes. I hope you look forward to my Crucible knight video uploading soon. Meanwhile I'll check out Nasu and let you know my thoughts.
@Ontos99
8 ай бұрын
I've found Nasu. He only has 1 video 4 hours long no hit playthrough. I've watched the boss sections and he is using insane OP magic attacks to smoke bosses. This has nothing to do with learning the boss patterns. Let me know if he fights Margit or Crucible knight rl1 with a club for instance and I can compare it with my playthroughs to give you a sense of what I'm talking about. Cheers!
@scotaloo77g73
8 ай бұрын
@@Ontos99 Statistically no one learned the bosses movesets on their first playthrough, what you did doesn't represent anyone at all. Most people just progressed and never got stuck on a boss to the point where they had to learn absolutely everything in order for them to win. That's not brute forcing, they still had to learn how to roll most attacks. Nasu doesn't upload all of his gameplay and his video about spirit summons, the one where he criticizes the boss design, shows some clips that obviously prove the guy knows what he's doing. I wouldn't call landing a hit mid waterfowl or walking into Maliketh as he attacks playing safe and not being aggressive. He said he did all of them hitless at level one and I believe his video has a small Maliketh clip that shows a RL1 club build.
@Ontos99
8 ай бұрын
@@scotaloo77g73 Let me watch that no summon video first before telling you my thoughts to not misrepresent his arguments
@Ontos99
8 ай бұрын
Go to the 5:34 mins in his 'Spirit summons are not the problem' video, he shows his Crucible Knight's play a little bit. For instance that play might look aggressive but it is not. You cant posture break him like that. Ever. I know because I've mastered him a few days ago and will analyze him and show you guys how I think about the fight. By the way I have seen no hit runners on Maliketh for instance who play EXCEPTIONALLY well with multiple posture breaks per phase and no hit. So it is not like this idea is new. The problem is without exploiting all weaknesses, you can't access its deepest mechanics which Fromsoft EXPLICITLY rewards you with a posture break. There is a HUGE difference between 1 posture break in a boss and 6 posture breaks (which is possible with +0 weapon RL1). The former means lucks was on your side and the latter means you know how to answer all attacks IN A AN AGGRESSIVE way. NOT passive. Thats why I put such high emphasis on posture breaks. It is teaching you 'how' the fun arises. You DONT have to do it (unlike in Sekiro) but if you do it, then you create an incredible flow state. A flow state I want to show you with my Crucible knight analysis which will upload tomorrow night. Subscribe to not miss it. I'd like to get your thoughts on it.This will be the most comprehensive CK analysis on youtube. I'm still watching Nasu's video btw. Just wanted to write this first. @@scotaloo77g73
@elsv99
7 ай бұрын
My problem with ER is that it took me beating the game 3 times and beating malenia 3 times each time with a less op build and watching KZitem videos like this before I (on my 4th run) understood how to approach the bosses... The lesson margit taught me on my first playthrough was to over level and not be agressive unless I wanted a quick knife to my face.
@Ontos99
7 ай бұрын
I can see your side of the argument for sure brother. I must be in the minority where I realized this is "the fun way" to play (for me) literally the first encounter with Margit as a wretch in my 1st playthrough. And what an experience the entirity of ER was with this specific mindset. I still dont think an open world game can rival that 135 hour blind 1st playthrough until Fromsoft cooks Elden ring 2. Even then, Im not sure. Well dragons dogma 2 is right around the corner. Im actually very interested in that franchise and will dive in day 1 and give you guys my 1st impressions. I hope you look forward to that. If you subscribe and click the bell, you would get a notification for it. Cheers bro. At least you started learning its deeper mechanics in your 3rd and 4rth playthroughs. Thats not something many people can do on such a long open world game
@stradify1
9 ай бұрын
Nice video, totally agree with every point. Also notable is that everything here is applicable to basic enemies, too. Rather than "waiting your turn," learning to attack through the enemy's attacks with proper timing and positioning is so satisfying. Once I learned that posture breaks are the secret sauce, I became obsessed with seeing how efficiently I could accomplish them
@Ontos99
9 ай бұрын
Thank you! Im really excited to hear your thoughts on the run that started at 14:01. That was so much fun. I hope you also enjoyed the final run I showed humiliating Margit. It is just incredibly satisfying to calculate the correct combinations of attacks in between combos and mastering his moveset to such high level of aggression that the boss doesnt have time to consolidate and is on his knees every 6 seconds. I feel like most people are not quite aware of this deeper enjoyment of Elden ring.
@jackalkhan5676
9 ай бұрын
The only reason I was able to beat Melania was because I had a naked gutz cosplayer fight her for me. But that dude taught me that anything is possible.
@Ontos99
9 ай бұрын
I'm jealous! Let me solo her next time ;) my club and underwear should also do the trick I think
@indigo_ssb
5 ай бұрын
strongly agree, extremely based take. the only counterpoint i feel to what you're saying is that this playstyle is really quite difficult and maybe even demands TOO much from the player. each boss requires a pretty extensive level of mastery to defeat this way to the point where it feels suited to challenge runners and people who are willing to spend many attempts per boss
@Ontos99
5 ай бұрын
I agree it is very challenging!
@iamdoom9810
9 ай бұрын
Tbh, I get the sense that people play this game like as if it's Dark Souls III 2, in the sense that they only value posture breaks as much as they did in that game. If a boss had a critical hit as a reward for a poise break, cool, maybe I get to pull 1 off per fight. But they totally blindsided when the other half of the combat takes from Sekiro, and as such, you have those expectations on you. The AI, just like in Sekiro, has been tailored made to get you into a certain dance of how to approach each boss. It'll punish you for doing it wrong and reward you if you come at it with more than one approach in mind. I think FromSoftware could have made this tonal shift more apparent in the tutorial, but it is what it is.
@Ontos99
9 ай бұрын
Yeah. I've recently finished my Crucible knight evergoal lvl 1 club no parry attempts. Currently starting to make its analysis. I dont want to spoil it but I had INSANE fun with this boss. I already enjoyed it my first playthrough but this challenge run made me appreciate SO MUCH more and i cant wait to show you guys how underrated and fun Crucible evergoal is. I hope you look forward to it. I kept actual moveset analysis to a minimum in this video to take a more general stance. But we'll go actually in depth in my following videos into movesets and punish windows. I hope you look forward to it! Click the bell to be notified. If you liked the aggressive play here,you dont want to miss that analysis
@jakesmith997
8 ай бұрын
Every defense I've seen of Elden Ring boss design doesn't address in my opinion the worst offense of the game: the sheer damage output of the bosses of the last third of the game. Once you get past Leyndell, it feels like player choice in progression goes out the window. There's exactly one "correct" vigor level, 60, and even then you die in fewer hits than you do in their other games at BASE vigor. And you can't offset this by customizing your build, because after 60 the returns are piss poor and near nonexistent. It felt like at that point the RPG aspect became an illusion and Fromsoft just wanted to make an action adventure game with a set playstyle.
@Ontos99
8 ай бұрын
Hi Jake! I have played the entirity of Consecrated Snowfields at 25 vigor. So obviously I dont agree with this take. See when you learn the pattern of the boss, not getting hit is a fun gameplay mechanic that adds a challenge as I have shown you in these last 2 Margit runs. Im not saying the damage numbers dont get higher. However I was always playing the game like this anyways. For me every area was like the final area of the game. Dying in 1 or 2 hits. I'd agree with you that it makes sense to increase vigor a little bit for the final boss rush mode that starts with Malenia and Maliketh onwards. Thats definitely fair. But the snowfield haligtree or any other location is completely doable and fun on 25 vigor. As thats how I played it. The late game difficulty spike is basically a way of saying "I hope you havent been relying on stats only' by Miyazaki imo. It is most people's play style that got them to 45 vigor in mid Liurna and the rest of the game just requires 10 hits from common enemies and 6+ hits from bosses to die. (Until late game) Thats why dying in 2 or 1 hit in the late game felt so unforgivable. Yet thats how I played the entire game. Forcing me to master many of its mechanics, aggression and patterns of bosses before defeating them. So I wouldnt say 60 vigor is a requirement for late game at all. And I might talk about this at some point. Thank you for bringing it up.
@sealer1675
3 ай бұрын
On the bright side it isn't that difficult to reach 60 vigor with sheer number of levels you get
@Slaughter_Hill
2 ай бұрын
@@Ontos99terrible take. So because you can do it without getting hit, that should be the base difficulty. Try harder next time.
@Ontos99
2 ай бұрын
@@Slaughter_Hill I think this DLC was a tastement when "the late game" difficulty becomes the entire game, most people can only progress the bosses with mimic tears. Not that I have ANY issues with mimic tears (I have also used them occasionally) but I have options. I know I can sit down to learn a moveset very well and almost hitless a boss with aggression. I know what to do and all i need is practice. Thats the sort of learning process many people were not aware of and thats where 90% of late game or boss criticisms came from when it comes to Elden ring. Once you learn what to do, feel free to summon for all bosses if it feels more enjoyable to you. Having that option is so important. You are not pigeonholed or forced to rely on chance or gimmics JUST to be able to progress. Thats what Im talking about.
@guillermosolacorral597
8 ай бұрын
Absolutely yes to everything you say in this video. This needs way more attention. I've been saying all this since the CNT times, to the point where I wrote an article in which I use some of the same exact quotes you use in here; but you said everyrhing in a way more precise and ellegant way. Props to you!
@Ontos99
8 ай бұрын
Thank you. I was personally sick of people unfairly 'criticizing' Elden ring's combat mechanics without posture breaking a single boss in a reliable manner, meaning little to no aggression and deep pattern recognition. I've spent quite a bit of time making sure my arguments are solid in this video and I'm happy to this day as I was able to express my overall thoughts really well even tho its views are fairly low. I'm happy you liked it and thanks for the comment. In fact, I have analyzed Crucible Knight evergoal moveset and made hopefully a good video like this one. It is on my channel. I think you might like that a lot if you enjoyed this one. Please subscribe to the channel as well to be notified of my future analysis videos. Let me know your thoughts :)
@guillermosolacorral597
8 ай бұрын
@@Ontos99 Already subbed, I was bingewatching your lore series haha
@guillermosolacorral597
8 ай бұрын
@@Ontos99 Btw, I have a YT channel where I posted some ER boss fights, and Crucible Knight happens to be one of them. Here's the video, in case it might be helpfull in your analysis kzitem.info/news/bejne/pn6YuZemiaNqYIYsi=NoUsWjDvVZzydn_h
@Ontos99
8 ай бұрын
Welcome to the community! I reply to all comments and please let me know if you have any questions or want me to clarify on anything on my lore videos. Enjoy!@@guillermosolacorral597
@tristanneal9552
2 ай бұрын
Liked the video! I'm wondering - does the game ever actually reach you how to stance break? Because unlike guard parrying for instance, I don't remember a tutorial on it and i think if I hadn't seen it in a video i never would've know what I was missing.
@Ontos99
2 ай бұрын
@@tristanneal9552 There is 100% a tutorial pop up in the cave of soldier of godrick in the begimning of the game. In general although Fromsoftware talked about the mechanic for sure, it can be slightly more rewarded or at least have a tutorial menu to make sure you can review it again. A lot of.people dont remember it and missed it. I know what you mean or why you are struggling to remember
@nacorcarmonablanco4414
8 ай бұрын
There are a few issues with bosses but the main problem is in the char mobility. Its archaic and has too long recovery and wind up windows (for many weapons and attacks). Balance is also bad, difficulty can be broken easily with many builds, overleveling, and summons. Still, awesome game no other game dev studio has been able to top yet in this specific genre.
@Ontos99
8 ай бұрын
I agree! For instance I love God of war Ragnarok combat but after playing it, I have realized how less organic its enemies and mechanics feel in terms of AI and repetitiveness when compared to Elden Ring. Not talking about build variety. Just the way combat on a high level playing and enemy movesets feem. That sense is what sets apart From soft's magnum opus from other devs and games imo. Also if you enjoyed the video, please subscribe to the channel as Im currently working on a video I think you might really like. I hope you look forward to it. Let me know your thoughts in the GOW and ER combat differences I alluded to. As I like both games so much and regard them as one of the pinnacles of melee combat in gaming. They are still very different in a certain sense
@Ontos99
8 ай бұрын
Also, I have a RL 1 run of Crucible Knight on my channel. I checked your channel just now and you just might like how I defeated him ;)
@nacorcarmonablanco4414
8 ай бұрын
@@Ontos99 Nice and fun video. Indeed GoW has one of the best TPA (third person action) combatplay, and I would score it higher than ER because of it combat loop is more refined and fluent. ER tops it regarding bestiary and overall level design though. The videos in my channel are examples and tests of an ER mod Im working on. It changes many things and It throws out of the window some of the classic souls design features (like attack commitment) so it will not be the cup of tea for everybody, specially souls hardcore fans, but imho it improves the combat loop by a lot. I will watch your next videos, cheers.
@Ontos99
8 ай бұрын
@@nacorcarmonablanco4414 Good to hear you liked it. Let me know when that mod comes out. I want to give it a shot. Cheers!
@sammywatokohom172
2 ай бұрын
0:20 gotta hate muscle memories
@sewnmind1786
Ай бұрын
8 months on from this video and I think the various Anderson clones are getting worse.
@Ontos99
Ай бұрын
@@sewnmind1786 I'll make a Shadow of the erdtree boss vid soon. Sorry for the wait. Focusing on the lore
@ay9lx
3 ай бұрын
How can you seriously defend a boss as being "fine" when it takes you multiple hundreds of attempts to get "comfortable" with the move set? In my opinion, the game is a big failure at catering towards the crowd of players that A) want to play solo B) dont want to abuse mimic tears, jumping attacks and dual wield bleed weapons etc. C) dont want to spend hours to learn a single boss I think I speak for a large amount of people here when I say this game just doesn´t offer an inbetween, it´s either way too easy or way too hard, depending on how you go into a boss fight. On that note, I really dislike some modern FromSoft design choices. Huge AoE type moves that hit the entire arena, multi-hit combos out the ass, holding the swing just a second longer than what feels natural, all so the player gets shit on. In my opinion, FromSoft gameplay devolved into this twitch reaction action combat and it´s just not fun anymore. They ought to drop the RPG elements entirely and just properly balance their games, it´s not like "builds" matter anyway if you can just grind levels until you have every stat at 50
@Ontos99
3 ай бұрын
I personally can't be happier with the design decisions Fromsfotware has taken with Elden Ring. If you don't want to spend hours learning a boss, you can use many tools at your disposal to deal with it. Make up your mind. If you want to learn the pattern, then just learn the pattern regardless of how long it takes. You don't want to do it, use summons or whatever the 'meta' weapon is. There is no in between. There actually never was in any souls games. It was just that the previous souls games were much easier in comparison to Elden Ring
@ay9lx
3 ай бұрын
@@Ontos99 The other games aren’t balanced around players abusing crutch mechanics (absurdly powerful ashes of war, mimic tear, etc.). Elden Ring isn’t difficult at all if you play it a certain way. My issue lies with the fact that the traditional solo melee (dare I say intended way to play? A basic knight char has been the poster boy since day 1) play through difficulty is completely fucked if you choose not to use said crutch mechanics Good on you for being such a gamer though
@ilikuyo
3 ай бұрын
Great video 2:32 honestly I found the game not so fun also with prioritizing posture break play-style, every boss takes too many tries to learn it that way that it becomes such a frustrating experience. I like sekiro more because while it wasn’t as challenging as elden ring I think it hit a sweet spot of fun and hard
@ilikuyo
3 ай бұрын
Only in my 4th play through i understood most of the bosses, but now with all the knowledge I have of the game mechanics i think the dlc will be more enjoyable
@ilikuyo
2 ай бұрын
Update: it was indeed more enjoyable for bosses like lion puppet / rellana / midra / messmer / romina But god the final boss is an awful experience I hate how inconsistent er bosses can be
@frozen_potato6957
Ай бұрын
You and loopine are a breath of fresh air i was going crazy when people said the bosses have no openings and non stop combo
@Ontos99
Ай бұрын
Great to hear. I also like Loopine's takes a lot! Very similar to how I perceive Elden Ring's gameplay and Miyazaki's vision. Real fun to master. Check out my blind Rellana gameplay up on the channel if you haven't already
@frozen_potato6957
Ай бұрын
@@Ontos99 will 100% check it out currently am playing and listening to your latest video
@John-rn1nm
8 ай бұрын
Ngl I hated most of Elden Ring's bosses. But now, Elden Ring has become my favorite game even surpassing Bloodborne. Nothing's more satisfying then getting consecutive poise break or making the perfect parries.
@Ontos99
8 ай бұрын
Wow. That is great to hear. The satisfaction of posture breaking a boss in an aggressive manner doesnt get enough attention it deserves and isnt talked about enough in the community. Both this video and Crucible Knight analysis is an attempt to remedy this. If you wanna see more analysis like this from me, please subscribe and let me know your thought on my crucible knight video as well. Cheers
@MarkerMurker
8 ай бұрын
I think dynamic bosses like these are... Impressive, but not intuitive. I'm very glad you made this video because it's important to have information from people who understand the game they're talking about. I'll have to test this stuff out. Lies of P so far has my favorite bosses
@Ontos99
8 ай бұрын
Hi Marker! I absolutely agree that this is not 'intuitive'. In fact, if this was intuitive, I wouldnt be making this video as it would be self evident to everyone else. Elden Ring is one of those games that is 'easy to learn'. Super quick to just pick up and play. But EXTREMELY complex to master its subtleties. The exact opposite of sekiro as that is hard to understand initially but relatively easier to master when it all clicks. I'm currently in the process of finishing my essay on Elden ring combat on bosses, cheesing and gatekeeping. I'm going to upload it tomorrow evening. I want to hear your thoughts on it actually so click the bell icon to be notified immediately. I dont want you to miss it as I plan to also talk about Lies of P soon and cross-reference it on how I think about its combat in relation to what Elden Ring offers on its mastery. Subscribe, let me know your thoughts and I hope you look forward to tomorrow's video. It will be worth the wait.
@Ontos99
8 ай бұрын
I dont want to spoil too much on my upcoming videos but yes. I also enjoy Lies of P quite a bit. I played the game with low expectations and I was blown away big time ;)
@Ontos99
8 ай бұрын
Also I just checked out your channel. I have a Crucible Knight Analysis video on my channel since you played him as well, you might really enjoy that video as I go deep into its moveset and show people my process of understanding him. He is an incredible boss.
@tavishdegroot5127
4 ай бұрын
I think youwy described the bosses perfectly - they're "overdesigned" . You only "get" them after like 100 playthroughs. The bosses still are well designed and follow the rules ( not malenia), but they're too overdesigned unlike sekiro where you "get" it more intuitively. I get both sides completely.
@Ontos99
4 ай бұрын
This is a good video but I think I'll condense the ideas better in my boss tier list video coming up soon. I'll even address that "Malenia doesnt play by the rules" video you probably refer to. It will be an insane video. I hope you look forward to it
@HeyTarnished
3 ай бұрын
His observation is kinda correct, but I think he draws misplaced conclusions, I don't fully agree with it since I can make the same arguments when comparing a boss from DS3 like Nameless King VS Artorias for example, NK is way more complex, much harder & requires more aggression, not gonna say NK is overdesigned compared to Artorias so therefore it's an issue, ER just made the learning curve much lengthier which increases replay value & dynamism, and there's nothing wrong with learning a boss, you'll always get destroyed or partially beaten your 1st playthrough against most bosses in these Souls games, so IDK why there's a sudden entitlement towards ER's bosses that they have to be easy & predictable like DS3/BB bosses or else they're bad, unfair and somehow "breaking the rules" (whatever the heck that means), I think it's got to do with people from the Souls community thinking they mastered it all when they no-hit all bosses in DS3/BB & then got kicked so badly in Sekiro & Elden Ring so they felt like they were betrayed or something, because let's not forget, back when Sekiro & ER released, they got the worst of it, people were lamenting their boss designed, it's all a really funny & weird phenomenon honestly, but now these 2 games are praised the most for their combat & bosses.
@Ontos99
3 ай бұрын
That 'is she unfair' video has a single key flaw he didn't take into account which I'll address in my Malenia part of the video. I even compared Sekiro and Elden Ring to demonstrate how Miyazaki is not regressing but actually going forward with those fundamentals. He is trying to improve and flesh out the mechanics of Sekiro here and I'm kinda sad these Joseph Anderson videos are completely destroying overall public perception on elden ring combat design.
@HeyTarnished
3 ай бұрын
@@Ontos99 So true, agreed with everything, can't wait for your future videos, take all the time you need.
@tavishdegroot5127
3 ай бұрын
@@Ontos99 i would agree, but.. malenia... but fire giant... but foreskin duo
@Auvisome
6 ай бұрын
😂play more games
@alter6243
8 ай бұрын
The only thing I really disagree on is that the combat is better than Sekiro. The combat in Sekiro is so much more refined that comparing the two honestly isn’t fair.
@Ontos99
8 ай бұрын
I understand that perspective. It is a matter of personal taste. I enjoy dodging focused gameplay way more than parry-focused ones. That doesn't mean Sekiro was bad. I've mastered the combat in that game just like I did with Elden ring and really enjoyed both while preferring the latter still. I respect if someone likes Sekiro more.
@alter6243
8 ай бұрын
@@Ontos99Great way to put it. My only problem with the combat in Elden Ring is that some weapons are so effective at what they do, it can harm a very well designed fights. This mostly applies to magic, bleed, and high poise damage weapons. At the same time, that does give Elden Ring so much more replay value. So overall it is a good thing. I definitely have the same opinion as you that the dodge focused combat is so much more fun. It was one of the reasons I liked Lords of the Fallen more than Lies of P. Both are great games, but Lords of the Fallen really gives me that DS1/DS2 feel that made me fall in love with the genre. Keep up the great content!
@Ontos99
8 ай бұрын
@@alter6243 Well I dont want to spoil the theme of my next video but since you mentioned those games and talked about OP weapons and its effects on elden ring, you'll REALLY enjoy my next video essay. I actually want to hear your thoughts on it now as Im gonna release it tomorrow evening. Please click the bell icon to be notified immediately on release and let me know your thoughts on my take. Also i plan to talk about lies of p at some point. So I hope you look forward to it.
@Ontos99
8 ай бұрын
@@alter6243 by the way is your name "alter" a reference to alter ego in psychology? Let me know :)
@alter6243
8 ай бұрын
@@Ontos99That is super dope! Can’t wait to see what you talk about. You just earned yourself another sub. I’ll make sure to let you know what I think!
@darknecromancer4046
9 ай бұрын
Well yes but i still despise Elden beast .
@Ontos99
9 ай бұрын
Dont forget the Fire Giant, the bane of my existence!
@highlightermarca-texto3281
9 ай бұрын
Fire Giant is a cool boss, just held back by his awful arena@@Ontos99
@aayushdasgupta9754
8 ай бұрын
Honestly I am an Elden Best sympathiser now. Yea the problem is how bad he is for a low vigor run. Otherwise his openings are absolutely massive, and attacks are just delayed, which is something ER has taught u to deal with since the beginning. The Elden Best is essentially a victory lap on a casual no summons run. I realized a lot of people hated Elden Beast, since Radagon can easily deplete Healing resources, causing them to trip up on the Elden Beast fight which has numerous lingering and AoE hit boxes. When one has summons, one tends to miss many combat techniques ER teaches you, and Elden Beast teaches you to execute those techniques, since the AoE hit boxes of Radagon and Elden Beast just annihilate your summons. Just my personal opinion. Elden Beast is easy when u get good with Radagon. TLDR:. Elden Beast forces you to get good with Radagon and forces you to deal with Delayed attacks, AoE hitboxes and Lingering hit boxes.
@Ontos99
8 ай бұрын
@@aayushdasgupta9754 Well similarly I didnt like elden beast in the slightest but I can see how it can be fun now. It is still a better fight than Fire Giant. That boss is horrendous :D
@aayushdasgupta9754
8 ай бұрын
Yea, I hate ankle biting. Can't see any of the stuff he is doing. FS should zoom out the camera for these giant bosses.
@victorprati7908
9 ай бұрын
Great playstyle specially if you lean into strength and colossal weapons but please do keep in mind that some setups are so optimized in breaking posture that you can enter in a loop where the boss can't do anything and imo it's an equally bad approach when you don't even have to engage with the boss' attacks. I realized it when playing with dual wielding poison daggers I wasn't getting posture breaks like I did in my Zweihänder run and I felt it. On the other hand the poison chipping away Margit's health bar while I endured the gauntlet made feel pretty good landing those dodges and occasional parries with a dagger. But that's the beauty of Elden Ring and its variety of playstyles.
@Ontos99
9 ай бұрын
Yeah I agree! I was a collosol sword user for the majority of my 1st playthrough in elden ring, tried claymore here and there, but now that I've played with a club for the first time seriously, I actually enjoyed its rhythm a lot. I'll experiment with even more weapons especially in the DLC.
@Ontos99
9 ай бұрын
I wouldnt say a club is particularly optimized for breaking posture by the way unlike collosols. I have also similarly broken posture with a claymore really well. It is not really about the weapon as much but the careful analysis of boss weaknesses and finding the appropriate level of aggression you can muster as a player without getting hit or not losing complete control. I could agree that dex weapons can be harder to do this with. You've said poison daggers. I havent used them for any boss, nor have I used much DEX weapons on any boss seriously, so I'd have to experiment to be able to say aggression works just as well on DEX as it does on STR weapons.
@victorprati7908
9 ай бұрын
@@Ontos99 definitely aggressive playstyle pays off in the majority of builds even without posture breaks. Like you said Margit teaches this lession damn well.
@Ontos99
9 ай бұрын
Margit is an amazing teacher!! We all are his pupils! I'm going to do a lvl 1 run of Crucible Knight in that evergoal. It is pretty close to the beginning area. Similarly with a club probably. I really love that fight and I want to show everyone why it has a great flow with a new weapon I have never tried on him. I hope you look forward to it! @@victorprati7908
@victorprati7908
9 ай бұрын
@@Ontos99 looking forward for sure! Man that crucible fight has a lot of things that can be said about like finding punishing windows in between his attacks, jumping over attacks, guard-countering the end of strings, parring of course :P, heck even guardbreking his greatshield is possible if you build properly. I remember being stuck on him for over an hour like an idiot cuz I thought my starting class lvl excuse of a tarnished was enough to beat him before I giving up🤣. The flow of that combat is so good with delayed attacks, proper spacing and timing not to be "heal punished" and a bit of gambling I like to do when he is edgewalking with his guard up I jump R1/R2 just to trigger the shield bash and occasionally being sent flying when he does it preemptively and it never gets old 😁. Honestly I had a harder time with this one and Margit fight than with Godrick. Happy holidays my dude
@HeyTarnished
3 ай бұрын
Absolutely phenomenal video, I agree with everything! Those KZitemr "critiques" really changed the perception to a very concerning degree, we have a lot of people loving the bosses, because I think they're the best in the series by far when optimize, bosses in ER attack so often that you have to study them at a much deeper level than you would with DS3 & BB bosses, yes ER bosses are harder & require much more nuance than before, they no longer have anywhere near as many "safe punishes" as previous Souls titles (there are many still), and there's nothing wrong with that, I feel it's mostly similar to Sekiro in someway, just because From Software adds a bit more complexity to bosses doesn't mean they're unfair, are there some few questionable or bad attacks in Elden Ring bosses? Yes there are, like in any Souls game.
@Ontos99
3 ай бұрын
My next video will address this and will be 40 mins long Elden Ring boss tier list video. Giving my memories and thoughts on almost all the bosses. It is my next upload. I hope you look forward to it. Currently working on it. Should release it before the DLC.
@HeyTarnished
3 ай бұрын
@@Ontos99 YES! I am looking forward to it, subbed to your channel!
@zadig08
9 ай бұрын
Video proves that pure STR builds are, in fact, easy mode. Thanks for the great content!
@Ontos99
9 ай бұрын
This gameplay is only possible due to aggression. Whether you use STR or DEX is irrelevant. Charged attacks and jump attacks along with constant pressure on the posture bar will do this even with daggers. And this aggression is only possible after learning the moveset quite well which took a few hours.
@zadig08
9 ай бұрын
@@Ontos99 I know, I was just joking for all the STR is the pure way to play people. Any style is legit and I prefer STR for the stance breaking mechanic specifically. I find it hard to play dex without status build up cause I don't know how to beat any of the bosses without some serious bonking 😅
@Ontos99
9 ай бұрын
Haha agreed!@@zadig08
@stephenmachado6400
8 ай бұрын
You’re fighting Demi gods not undead berserk sanity lost type enemies of dark souls. These bosses show you how it would feel like to have all odds against you and it is the most satisfying thing conquering them like learning a dance with a known nemesis
@Ontos99
8 ай бұрын
Yeah I agree! It is so much fun to decipher their complex directional moveset and find their non telegraphed and narrow punish windows.
@Ontos99
8 ай бұрын
I'll speak more on the bosses and abalyze their movesets very extensively showing their punish windows as very severe misinformation regarding this game's "unfair" combat mechanics and bosses are echoed in the community. I aim to fix that with these videos and show how the punish windows are there. It is just that it requires a lot of skill to exploit. but not impossible many people are also like me. Exploiting the punish windows. They just dont upload and talk about it like I do. Mainstream criticism of this game's bosses are as misguided as it gets in my eyes. Er bosses are absolutely incredible for the most part. Please subscribe and stay tuned because another boss analysis is on the way. You dont want to miss it
@Liam4Dead
9 ай бұрын
Your content rate is incredible, and the content itself maybe my personal favourite for Elden Ring. Really great job! I couldn’t click subscribe any faster.
@Ontos99
9 ай бұрын
Thank you! Im currently editing an incredible lore video as a preparation to something more interesting down the line. Think of it as a foundation to understabd the night of the black knifes. But I dont want to spoil it too much just yet. I hope you look forward to it. Im also contemplating doing different boss analysis of other than Margit. Especially Malenia since people have lots of issues with her and it would be nice to address these arguments from my understanding as well. Let me know if this is a good idea. I can sprinkle these in between my lore videos. Because lore videos take an extremely long time and effort to make.
@Liam4Dead
9 ай бұрын
@@Ontos99 Absolutely on board with that. The content has been excellent and the analysis of the bosses today was a Christmas treat! It's inspired me to go back and try to game using your approach instead of brute forcing. It sounds like a fantastic idea to continue the boss analysis things, as you did today. Your content is fantastic so far, and look forward to hearing more from you.
@Ontos99
8 ай бұрын
@@Liam4Dead Hey Liam. You doing all right? I have uploaded the Crucible Knight analysis video. I havent heard from you a while.
@brutusmagnuson315
7 ай бұрын
I see your points, but the posture meter should’ve been visible. Not only to teach the mechanic and how important it is, but also have extra information to determine player decisions
@simonenot5839
7 ай бұрын
It's not really necessary, after a while you get used to not seeing it and actually start predicting precisely when the posture bar is going to be depleted. Also it is very satisfying to predict when the bosses posture will brake, having the visible bar would just simply take away that satisfaction
@kasp7674
9 ай бұрын
First of all, great video. However I also think you disproved your title's thesis in the opening statements of your video. The issue with Elden Ring's combat was never it's lack of depth and I'm sure a lot of people have presented incorrect opinions of why the game's combat is bad. The issue lies with the fact that it is completely unintuitive. For example, how many percent of players, do you think, knew about jumping over Margit's tail the first time they beat him? I would guess less than 1%. Game design, just like politics is judged by perception and not reality. If a game isn't able to present the reality of it's mechanics to the player, then it is poorly designed. I would like to ask, how many hours of game time did it take for you to get comfortable with the Margit fight? Personally, I would say that, if the answer is more than 10 minuttes, then the game designers at Fromsoftware have a problem.
@victorprati7908
9 ай бұрын
FromSoft games have always been unintuitive. Being in how to dodge attacks, how to complete quests, or even to figure out how poise works lol. It all comes down to experimentation and community discussion. You are supposed to learn from failure, try different approaches, and adapt (basically getting gud lol). Even if it takes hours or days to beat a boss that's NOT a design problem. That's intended. If you don't enjoy this process of learning through trial and error then that's ok but don't call it a design problem.
@Ontos99
9 ай бұрын
In what sense do you feel it is unintuitive? Actually, I've never even considered it would be hard for someone to not jump the tail swipe for instance. I dont mean the execution of it, that can be hard, but more the idea of it while trying to think about how to punish him. And what is great about ER is that it doesnt pigeon hole you into 'jumping the tail swipe' to punish Margit. You can, as I've shown in my 14:01 run, dodge forward into Margit when he tail swipes you. You can dodge it completely unscathed like that as well. So if one has never considered jumping, they can use a souls staple and 'dodge into' it for that swipe attack. There are always multiple ways of punishing and dodging most attacks. I do agree however, that the entire aggressive playstyle is not forced into the player like in Sekiro. Playing the latter without parrying and aggression is a recipe for disaster. It forces you. Same is not the case for elden ring but this fits its freedom reinforcing and open world aspect. They obviously dont make it mandatory to play aggressively (like in Sekiro). Instead what they do is that, battles takes longer and the fun factor gets reduced when one is playing passively just like in sekiro. And a new mechanic is introduced that is just like sekiro where aggression breaks enemy posture. Could the significance of this style have been better communicated to the players? I think this is a fair argument. Just because I've realized aggression is a fun way to play ER doesnt necessarily mean everyone should have in their 1st playthrough no less. With more reinforcement and hints via game design and structure, maybe some sort of tutorial, this can be more clearly communicated by fromsoft. Playing Margit in the particular way I've shown in the last 2 runs of this video has taken me more than 3-4 hours to execute. But it is also true that I'm very familiar with these games and am an above average player. Very motivated to learn and master the movesets. So it can take longer or shorter depending on the person. It is fair to say this could be communicated better. I also see many people playing passively whenever I click on a random elden ring stream. So statistically speaking, people still have a tendency to run away and wait, allowing the posture bar to completely reset. This problem has gotten worse after Joseph Anderson's video. Lots of people started to unfairly attack elden ring (in my opinion) Thats why I wanted to make the video to bring a bit of balance to the argument. Not that elden ring's combat cant be improved on or as you said, mechanics couldnt be better communicated by fromsoft themselves.
@Ontos99
9 ай бұрын
Just like you, I wouldnt straight out say a 'design problem'. This was intentional by fromsoft. They didnt wanna 'force' the aggressive playstyle to players throats unlike Sekiro. And it fits its build variety and freedom themes. If they did it mandatory, many playstyles would significantly turn into so unoptimized and waste of time that it would pigeonhole the player again like Sekiro in specific playstyles. The one thing Elden ring is ACTIVELY refusing to do :)@@victorprati7908
@kasp7674
9 ай бұрын
@@Ontos99 Personally I actually went into the game with the aggressive, fully charged R2, jump R2 and guard-counter seeking, playstyle in mind. I had researched the game enough, that before even starting playing the game, I already knew that, that was how the game was intended to be played. that is not really my issue, though that should also have been communicated better. My issue with the combat design is the unintuitiveness of finding the correct responses to attacks and openings. Nothing tells you which direction to dodge or when to dodge in the case of a delayed attack. Some attacks that seems impossible to jump over can be jumped over, while others that seems to be designed be jumped over can't. The enemies constantly has "fake" openings, or change their moves depending on circumstances. Some enemy attack have deceptively long range, which makes spacing unintuitive as well. Some enemies has attacks at specific distances or after specific attacks that come out so fast the it's impossible to respond. None of these things are fair the first time you see them, and are not fair until you learn them, which in the case of Margit is 3-4 hours, which was around what I expected (I had done the same challenge, beat the Tree Sentinal after about 30 minuttes, but stopping with Margit after around 45 minuttes of not having fun). Personally I don't find unfair gameplay fun at all. Every thing would basically be solved if they just made the game intuitive. Give a clear indication of when there is an opening, don't make the enemy extend their combo with 5 attacks and 2 fake openings, give a clear indication of when to jump over an attack, don't have delayed attacks that come out so fast that you need to learn the timing, establish some "rules" of which way to dodge given a specific attack and so on. None of these thing would reduce the game's depth, it would just reduce the barriers to actually engaging in the depth of the game. Instead of having to fight Margit for 3-4 hours before really being able to engage in a fun manner, have that time be 10-20 minuttes.
@kasp7674
9 ай бұрын
@@victorprati7908 One of the problems with ER is that the game's bosses are so weak while being so difficult to learn, that you usually beat them by dumb luck before even getting close to mastering them. So you basically end up with an experience of never being able fight them in satisfying manner, as they are dead before you even get to that point.
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