Most of the time, it's better to have a great ending to things, than chewing them for years and realize they've lost their flavour.
@ericstorm8277
Жыл бұрын
But people like to chew tasteless stuff. Look at all those FIFA, CODS and all those games that come back every year with small to no changes
@discipleofdeath2517
Жыл бұрын
@@ericstorm8277cough sheep cough
@ericstorm8277
Жыл бұрын
@@discipleofdeath2517 yeah, I could have wrote that. But, with time I realised that they *DO* enjoy that kind of content. They have fun. So I stopped judging them, and go looking for some Indie game that can satisfy my gaming addiction
@discipleofdeath2517
Жыл бұрын
@@ericstorm8277 Yeah... It just pollutes a lot of the pool with these awful trends seeping into other games.
@rasmie8858
Жыл бұрын
@@ericstorm8277 People play FIFA because they love soccer. It's the format that keeps player playing those games rather than things like story or gameplay elements. That's why people will grow out of watching things like wrestling but you'll never see a soccer fan grow out of watching soccer. FIFA's number is purely because there is no other choice on the market due to how the brand is licensed. I say this from experience because I'm a basketball fan who is stuck with NBA2K products because nobody else can make a basketball game. If these games had multiple competitors like Battle Royale format did, they would not have anywhere near the negative connotation that they do
@zardzewialy
Жыл бұрын
This video reminds me of the "good ol days" when TotalBiscuit used to make these long deep dive videos talking about specific issues that are currently haunting the gaming industry, current problems with game dev, with game media etc. That's actually great, thank You Force for taking the time to make a video like that, I truly appreciate that kind of content and people who take that time to make a video that is not just something quick and easy to make for maximum views and clicks. I know these deep dives are usually less profitable for the content creator, which makes me appreciate it even more. Again, thank You! :)
@FROSTB4NE
Жыл бұрын
I miss John, he was such a good force for the gaming industry. I grew up watching his content as a kid, very sad what happened to him, but he fought that cancer with everything he had.
@IGniTo100
Жыл бұрын
Man, I would love to hear TB's thoughts on the current day gaming affairs. That man really knew how to put things into perspective.
@ggs4869
Жыл бұрын
force was part of totalbiscuits network company or something way back then. sp no surprise.
@Zectifin
Жыл бұрын
@@IGniTo100 something tells me he would very.....cynical
@zardzewialy
Жыл бұрын
@@ggs4869 Oh, ok. It doesn't change the amount of effort needed and my appreciation for it though ;)
@ZeroBankaiKing
Жыл бұрын
The greed is just out of control plain and simple.
@Ashenwolf888
Жыл бұрын
Very true. The fact there are still no laws around gaming development baffles me.
@lordrevan571
Жыл бұрын
It's also the fact that between the three of us, one of us will have a favorite game and go "Lol idc ill just pre order bro." and when you multiply that by however many people bought the game, you start to understand just how easy it is to lie to retards.
@SwSAS1786
Жыл бұрын
The greed is out of control because we(the players) keep feeding into the greed. Why would these companies stop their business model when it’s hugely successful? It’s not going to stop until we start speaking with our wallets.
@spdrmn34
Жыл бұрын
@@SwSAS1786that is very true. Gamers need to push for better sequels/expansions instead of season passes.
@Dajova
Жыл бұрын
@@SwSAS1786 tbf, the main reason these predatory systems and whatnot is so spread is because of markets like Korea and China. The mobile market there is like 5 times bigger than anywhere else in the west. It's way bigger than the PC market. And now where you can play PC games on mobile (and vise versa), it's gonna get even worse, unless something drastically changes.
@2fast4dad
Жыл бұрын
I think a big issue with live service now is that for most games we are getting worse content but it costs more. Whether it's cosmetics or expansions I feel like the content we are getting tends to be far worse than anything we've had before.
@vogelbert7082
Жыл бұрын
*cough* destiny... *cough*
@moon9light
Жыл бұрын
I honestly don't know the frame of reference on "getting worse". Worse than...what? We complain about almost every game now, so I feel like we are allowing the popular discourse now -- which is to shit on stuff -- to lead us to make assumptions. I feel like game design isn't improving as much as it should, but getting...worse? No, I don't think so, I just think our expectations have increased with the potential size/scope of games nowadays, and thus it's a lot more possible for us to be disappointed. I have tons of fun with games, and my younger self did not have the experience to see flaws in older games because I was so happy to play them. If games suck now, most of us would be playing older games. We're not. We're playing newer games, for the most part.
@Toymachine2207
Жыл бұрын
I agree. Today we have amazing tech to pull off some amazing games. Yet, we get shallow half baked mechanics but the cash shop works....... I think there is a serious compensation issue where the devs themselves aren't being paid well. Mean while the managers climbing the corp. ladder are making the significantly more money, become out of touch and hold all the decision making power. My perfect game was FFX. Besides the obv advanced features from FF9, this game had CONTENT. The devs planned for their diehards to complete the game and grind out all the extra bosses and ultimate weapons. We have NEVER had content like that in a game, let alone an RPG, since then.
@NoNeedNoGreed
Жыл бұрын
@@Toymachine2207 We really reached a point where triple-A game studios and publishers jumped on a complain-train to talk shit about customers loving Baldurs Gate 3 and how "you shouldn't expect that kind of quality from us"
@victorb5
Жыл бұрын
I was going to leave a comment expressing this exact sentiment. As he mentioned with WoW, that initial year added content that Expanded the gameplay in unique, interesting, and enjoyable ways. Now it seems like many live service games' "new" content is just reskinned versions of previous content to me. The focus feels more and more to be on making the impression of having Lot's to do with the new content, but then after a minimal amount of engagement it turns out the systems/gameplay is just skin deep with the purpose of keeping me engaged with their live service payments.
@gregarious1119
Жыл бұрын
Great overview of live service model. One small (but also kinda big) point I would have added, when talking about shops and premium currency, when you want to buy an item from said shop, you cant simply buy the item. You have to buy enough premium currency to buy the item. So if the item costs 1,200 coins, you go to the shop, they dont sell 1,200 coins. They sell either 1,000 or 2,200. So you can't ever buy the item for it's listed price, you always have to spend more than it's listed price.
@Khotetsu
Жыл бұрын
And then you have some left over currency, which is meant to incentivize you to spend more money on more currency to buy something else.
@NoNeedNoGreed
Жыл бұрын
It's a highly predatory system, and sadly we're not seeing any consequences for it except in a few individual cases here and there
@GlitchedVision
Жыл бұрын
there's another part to this psychological trickery too, if they actually displayed and charged real money values for items then people would know exactly how much these publishers think their time is worth and the results would shock many of them into not even playing anymore. They have to keep the objuscation going so that even if you do buy that fancy new skin you then have currency left over that you ehter have to spend more to get rid of and probably still wind up with extras or save so you can grind out the last little bit of currency to get a second item after like 3 months of grinding. They want all the money in the world and failing that, they'll settle for 100% of the world's attention span.
@probablythedm1669
Жыл бұрын
Turns out gameplay designed to inconvenience you into want to buy to skip the inconvenienve, predatory pricing, FOMO, and deliberately obscured prices leads to recurrent spending and then people need to justify that spending by playing, tempting them to spend more, leading to way more spending than to simply sell the game once. They deliberately design the game to be worse to make you spend, and that's when I take my money and go elsewhere. I'm not interested in buying a solution to a problem the developer made to sell me the solution, it's pure enshitification of gaming and I want no part of it. I never did, and never will. Live-service = not for me. I don't enjoy any game made worse to sell me in-game tat. I grew up playing games where playing the game got me what now costs me $19.99 a piece. Why would I ever want to contribute to that?! It's literally paying to make the games worse! 😒
@gregarious1119
Жыл бұрын
@probablythedm1669 exactly. This sounds like a joke my old programming instructor made one time. And that is, if you want your customer to keep coming back to you, so that you can continually "optimize" the program you made for them, just put in a "do nothing" loop. A piece of code that literally runs, but does nothing, just to take up memory, and then over time, adjust the loop to do less and less. Again, it was a joke, but the concept i think is similar. Games are designed with bs and then the customers are sold the solution.
@masoodvoon8999
Жыл бұрын
People forget what a huge impact mobile gaming has had in the last 10 years. There was some monetization and subscriptions in the past but businesses have to sell to their investors the fact that kids are shelling out big $ on their phone games before they come to them with their live service PC business plans.
@geddybear9108
Жыл бұрын
I think the biggest issues with live service in the current day is the lack of quality and desire to make a good game. When LS games first came about they had from an objective POV had to get it right, it had to be a delicate balance between monetization and content which also sat behind an engaging game. The problem is now with most LSG's feels hollow, the content usually isn't deep, the gameplay cycle is repetitive and uninspired, yet the cosmetics or battle passes gatekeep either the actually good looking cosmetics or the best content for the game always seem to suggest the base content purposely is a downgrade. It's a vicious cycle and whilst I don't like people losing their jobs, I'm actually glad this predatory monetization practices have sunk some studios. I'd rather have inspired and creative titles pushing the medium as opposed to greedy corporate heads simply wanting a paycheque.
@MarioLeCarre
Жыл бұрын
Real gamers don't really play a lot of live service games as much as they used to in the past. But on the other hand, casual gamers love them, and there are more casual gamers than real gamers. lol
@DragonFang253D
Жыл бұрын
We need something that makes it legal for player run servers of abandoned games but cant be monetized by players.
@snowythesnowball182
Жыл бұрын
I remember being super excited for Darktide, and then saw that while we didn´t have all of in game features to customize weapons, we did have a fully functional cash shop. After a week a realized it was a rushed out game and a watered down version of its predecesor launched just to justify selling skins.
@pedroj3432
Жыл бұрын
Thats not a good example. First, its a fantastic game with excellent gameplay and Vermintide released in a worse state. Also, there is no pay to win in Darktide. That being said, the game releasing with a fully functional cash shop with skins and yet many broken gameplay features really left a bad taste
@matrixcom69
Жыл бұрын
@@pedroj3432 It's a great example and I see what you are. You're obviously an invested player and you cringe at the fact that people shit on your game.
@aaronhumphrey3514
Жыл бұрын
Here's a thought: maybe the people hating on live service games aren't generally the same people playing and spending tons of money on live service games. Maybe they are sick of live service games taking up the majority of development funds in the industry thereby preventing more traditional games from being made.
@kosmosXcannon
Жыл бұрын
One of the reasons why I loved the return of AC with AC6. FromSoft is basically one of the few big developers left that still develop games the old way. I actually love the fact that I can actually feel like I finished a game in a reasonable amount of time. I value quality over quantity. I rather have a short engaging game than to slog it out on a game designed to eat your time. Which is why I have always hated the arguments that games need better graphics and playable time. Better graphics probably eats significantly into development time on top of chasing and reworking in trends. The more playable time while sounds awesome, kind of incentivizes lazyness by padding gameplay, much easier to do if the game is sandboxy or designed like a mmo. I feel one of the reasons these live action games have so many people playing them besides reasons like FOMO, etc are that people kind of get into a routine. Once that routine has been broken it is significantly easier to actually quit the game. You kind of saw this with movies after the pandemic.
@alexsRudd
Жыл бұрын
Hey man, I appreciate what you said regarding Fire Fall as I was a dev at the studio. You words struck home with me, and I agree with a lot of your points. Keep being awesome.
@firun2635
7 ай бұрын
Hey, just wanted to say that I really, REALLY loved Firefall. It was something truly special and it's one of the very few games (that never were) that I really miss. I didn't follow the drama, but I understand it was bought by a Chinese publisher, was ruined by MTX and then abandoned. I played it early on and I really loved the vibe and overall feel of the game. I very much appreciate what you guys did there, and I would love to play it again!
@kajtekbezmajtek
Жыл бұрын
The problem with live service games is that devs think it's okay to underdeliver content on launch and add it after launch. The game should have as much content as normal games and then expant upon those games with money they get from us in a form of cash shop/season pass, etc, but the devs becoming more greedy and lazy nowadays. Just look on Anthem and D4.
@Zacban
Жыл бұрын
This. Some games you don't really wanna play until 6 months after launch
@Gamebent1
Жыл бұрын
The proliferation of live service games are why I became much more interested in board games, and I'm actually happy about that! My policy is to never spend money on microtransactions, and I avoid live service games as much as possible, but like you said, "you can't escape them."
@iamArahad
Жыл бұрын
While i 100% agree, i also believe that greed is the issue, no matter how good the game is, once the devs become greedy, it'll be ruined.
@permeus2nd
Жыл бұрын
2:32 oh the irony of talking about longest lasting while having wild star on screen, im sure this was unintentional from Force but its way too funny.
@WeasyMac
Жыл бұрын
It's always important to differentiate between actual meaningful content that matters and just skins. Because some games focus mainly on cosmetics and that's a big problem.
@VictoryHand
Жыл бұрын
Damn what happend to the games industry. 😢 when you lay it all out like this it really puts it in perspective. I dont really want to think how much ive spent on these horrible tactics. I really think if there was an easy way to track across bank acounts and stuff to see the ammounts spent and what the money could have been used for vs what you actually got. Pixels that are probably no longer accesable.
@Pandrawrr
Жыл бұрын
I didn't know that Force Gaming was also a carpentry channel, he really hit the nail on the head
@maniacal1870
Жыл бұрын
Live Service Game's success stems solely from Eastern gamers. Gaming is more than just a hobby in countries like China and Korea, it is a coping mechanism. Plus, what else are people supposed to spend their money on? They can't vacation or roadtrip like we can in the west, they can't raise big families or pick expensive hobbies like boating or sinking money into cars. It's the cheapest, easiest method that their governments have found to keep them stable and complacent.
@CalmConcept
Жыл бұрын
My biggest gripe with the battle pass system is their expiration. The one thing Halo Infinite did right was implement permanent battle passes imo.
@Khotetsu
Жыл бұрын
I agree. This is the biggest sin of battle passes to me, and I absolutely hate battle passes to the point where the introduction of one sours me on a game and makes it less appealing to play. They're grindy as all hell and a company saying "Pay us $15 to work a second job and if you miss a few days you lose what you already paid for" is not something I want to engage with.
@chadbear8759
Жыл бұрын
That’s how the pyramid schemes work now in gaming, the original battle pass was to get you use to battle passes. And then it spirals from there. You just gave them an inch they are taking a mile.
@CalmConcept
Жыл бұрын
@@Khotetsu agreed, I dropped off Destiny for this same reason.
@jamieschreiber3278
Жыл бұрын
I have to nitpick at some points, it wasnt "live service" that began updates/fixes/dlc, it was simply the internet. And for over a DECADE devs were updating, bug fixing and adding addition content long long before any term or idea of "live service game" came along. And now in current day, the term is very loosely defined. Most "non live service" still provide updates,fixes and dlc. This video , and I dont mean to be harsh, sounds like a young kid who heard a story about how gaming got to this point, and not a person who was there or even actually looked into the subject in any real depth.
@JamesEtallaz
11 ай бұрын
Great video! Just food for thought: one of the main reasons early live service games were made was also to counter piracy that was getting out of hand in the early 2000s. Back in the day, you could copy/burn your CD game on your x52 speed CD burner and then make several copies of the solo game and resell or share them with friends. Live Service became a solution to this, but now it's gone too far I agree. One solution would be for the regulating entities to force game developers to include a solo campaign of the game at launch, regardless of the genre. Players should at least be able to play with bots in whatever game they purchased whenever the online players are long gone. This was actually the case in earlier games. Warcraft3, Medal of Honor, Age of Empires, etc all had a solo campaign, as well as online battlegrounds/skirmishes with other players.
@jeremyn4397
Жыл бұрын
The receipe for a sucessful live service game is pretty simple. Make a game that is fun, first and foremost, then charge a monthly fee to continually update and expand it. Include no additional charges, except maybe a pricetag on large expansions, but that tag would be cheaper than a full game. You know the way we use to do things back in the early 2000's....
@MAVP5
Жыл бұрын
This is a great take, also we should not only focus on the bad games, we give them too much attention for free, I can think of some games that have great Live Services but are rarelly talked about how good the Live Services are. Like make a video with TOP 10 Live Services Games, for ex Guild Wars 2 has one of the best MMO Live Services, sure they don´t make billions of profit but they stayed true to their formula and they are doing better than ever! So when companies talk about how they cant do this or that just point them to games like Guild Wars 2 and how they still manage to do full expansions and free monthly content for over 10 years and with quality and with honesty... In the end is just that companies can make 120% profit and they could stay like that for years but they want every year to make more, 200%, then next year 200% more than last years, then next year 200% more than the year before, so on and so on.. it never ends
@JDReC100
Жыл бұрын
"make a video with TOP 10 Live Services Games" yes please. All i hear is how bad live service is (and other doom and gloom stuff). i rarely hear people talk about actuallly good LS games (and how they are good)
@ondrejmarek1980
Жыл бұрын
time to bring the coop business model to game development? not sure how well it would work in this industry, but worth considering
@mirage1857
Жыл бұрын
Force I just randomly remembered your weekly MTG Duels videos you used to upload back in the day. My ex wife and I used to watch them together. She even decided to try playing two headed giant with me because of your videos and even killed us once when she pointed a fireball at our face and we died lol.
@TheBaneofRed
Жыл бұрын
You had me till “I’m so glad to play starfield” 😂😂
@federalcheesegrater556
Жыл бұрын
Currently playing Sleeping Dogs again. Played it once before in like 2014. It feels soooo much better than any Live Service game to just jump in, do whatever you want and then save and quit when you're done.
@Speedhaak
Жыл бұрын
I recently installed WoW Classic for the Hardcore realms and man... it makes me sick to see how much these types of games have changed in the past 20 years. I'd rather play this than any of the new 'Live Service' games and like you say, so happy to have some very good single player 'consumer' first games to play along the way.
@genesises
Жыл бұрын
it hit me over and over again playing wow hc how insane it is that almost every mmo since wow's release tries to copy wow, and still the game in its 20 year old state (kind of) is still the most fun mmo out there. i thought it'd be mostly nostalgia, but here i am still playing every day despite having a full time job and limited hours.
@AlexLusth
Жыл бұрын
I mean, it all depends on how you quantify success. If: Money earned + playtime is our metric, then yeah. Player fulfillment and enjoyment, looking at a lot of gamers nowadays, apparently not that much.
@InJeffable
Жыл бұрын
I'll try to make an analogy. McDonald's is incredibly popular. People eat there all the time. That doesn't mean that it's good for the people who frequent it, nor does it mean that it's a quality establishment. Just like McDonald's food, live service games are designed to be addictive. I've experienced this myself with Rocket League. I spent hundreds of hours in that game before finally quitting it a long time ago. The competitive nature was too stressful and was taking a toll on me. On top of that, I was spending money I shouldn't have been spending on cosmetic items (not a huge amount, but enough for it to be a concern). Rocket League had its hooks in me for a while, and that included feeling compelled to try to get the latest and greatest cosmetics. For me, comparing a single-player game to to a live service game is like comparing the escapism of a good book to the escapism of a recreational narcotic. Both are popular in their own ways, but only one has the considerable downside of being destructive on a personal level.
@Aarimous
Жыл бұрын
I feel like this constant bombardment of system designed at getting more money has lead to me play less a less games in recent years.
@joshp2080
Жыл бұрын
I am 100% with the "starfield and BG3 are goin to keep me busy for the next few months" life. I am also excited to play cyberpunk phantom liberty. I shelved cyberpunk until this specific update and am very optimistic
@eligreg99
Жыл бұрын
No Lords of the Fallen or Lies of P?
@joshp2080
Жыл бұрын
@@eligreg99 it's funny you say that, because all I have been playing since Lies of P released is Lies of P!! The game is amazing and i shelved everything else. I didn't expect such a great game ! Lords of the Fallen wasnt on my radar til today but i will def add that to the list! Watch me struggle @ unknowmi.ttv
@misguidedharmony760
Жыл бұрын
Would anyone like to start a protest with me? Nothing big, nothing grand, no huge message or harassment of game devs, just a simple solution, stop buying unfinished games, live service games and games from big companies that like to abuse it's employees and players. And i mean just like cold turkey, this fomo setup is addictive and bad for the health of thousands of people and frankly, our wallets just aren't big enough anymore with how expensive gaming has become
@willfullyinformed
Жыл бұрын
The players that make up the majority of players for live services are 1.) Many players like myself don't want/like live service games, but we like the game underneath because it's decent or good. BF 2042, for example, but we play them because there aren't any/or good AAA alternatives, and we want to get as much as we can out of them. 2.) To your beginning point, people are addicted. We know the predatory practices in many of these games are literally and purposefully actually designed to be addictive, grabbing a million or 2 of those players isn't that difficult for companies with unlimited marketing budgets. With both of these points combined, including yours, these are more than enough reasons to have these games at the top but they definitely don't represent people actually wanting live services, but rather want to just play the games' at their core; it's almost like that monopoly feeling on electricity, you don't feel you really have a choice if you want to enjoy that service. A small/immediate example of this is Battlebit vs Battlefield, people are tired of not having other options to go to, and as soon as another option is available that's REAL, fair, and not full of microtransactions, live services, etc. a huge portion, and in some cases, the majority, flocks to it. Great video, I appreciate the thoughtfulness in this topic! Cheers
@Shire_Commander
Жыл бұрын
whatever tick is happening in the back of this video is absolutely mind racking
@Catholicdragonslayer
11 ай бұрын
One nice thing would be if publishers released the server binaries for free for games that have a multi-player component (not really MMOs, I'm thinking more like the Battlefield games, SW Battlefront, etc.). Similar to how Valheim, Minecraft, or a good number of the Valve games allow you to self-host multiplayer servers. This could extend your MP enjoyment well past the point where it's financially viable for the publisher to host the servers.
@rileymcphee9429
Жыл бұрын
The biggest problem I've always had with live-service games is this agreement that I never stop paying for a game I never own. Nothing exemplified this more than Blizzard knee-capping beloved private servers who were offering a game version they refused to, only to re-release it years later and force us to pay $15/mo to continue playing it. That pretty much swore me off live service games.
@dracuhl8342
Жыл бұрын
I honestly think that MOST things with live service games are fine. The only issues I have are with the loot boxes, "premium" currency, and required online connection specifically for single player games. If those 3 were removed I would be fine with the state of live service games. I should not "have to" gamble to get what I want. That $200 jhin skin in League? Take it out of boxes and throw it in for a flat price. The price should also not be "hidden". Stop making me do math. If you make me do math I'll have to think for once which will make me tired and I just won't buy it. And single player games shouldn't require online connection. There is no upside for me. I don't care if Billy pirates the game. Don't punish me for his theft.
@charlesqbanks
Жыл бұрын
People will play that which is the most aggressively marketed, and live services focus on that more than other game devs because they continue to market themselves well after their games release. Simple as that. Popularity is often manufactured by marketing. It is standouts like Vampire Survivors that can make it on word of mouth alone.
@kosmosXcannon
Жыл бұрын
I might be the minority here, but I actually prefer the feeling of completing a game and moving onto a new one. Which is why I typically like FromSoft games. Games like AC 6 is like a breath of fresh air. I don't particularly like playing a game that overstays its welcome. I don't get the feeling of actually finishing a game because there is really no end by design. I also feel like content and how it is added feels like it pads the game and gets you into a routine of playing the game, like doing dailies.
@fartloudYT
Жыл бұрын
there is some irony to be found in the fact that this video contains a lot of Division footage from the evil Ubisoft, and yet by comparison it only has cosmetics in the shop.
@urchinsify
Жыл бұрын
Live service is not the problem... It's just a tool. Live service extended and added to the life of most popular games today. It is in many ways a good thing.
@Nolexyn
Жыл бұрын
The statement you made in the first 2 minutes about mindless hamsters running on a fomo wheel chasing the next dopamine hit is most definitely the case with live service games
@BagtheTea99
Жыл бұрын
Where did you find that old OLD Halo trailer clip? I remember they showed off the needler and it had brown bolts and not pink/purple.
@LionUnchained
Жыл бұрын
I'm really surprised that Ironmace's new title Dark and Darker wasn't mentioned in this video. Honestly the gaming story of the year in terms of developers pushing back against the unethical business practices of these corporations/conglomerates. Regardless of whether or not the gameplay is something you're interested in, I think it's important that people pay attention to what's happening with Ironmace and their battle against Nexon. Developers are obviously fed up with these practices too and it's awesome to see them take a stand and put out a game with the original vision against all of the odds. They took a huge risk and are poised for an incredible victory for developers and the industry at large. The narrative should include developers as well, and I think that these ones are specifically worthy of being included in this topic.
@pedroj3432
Жыл бұрын
Agreed. And Dark n Darker is a fantastic game to boot
@ggs4869
Жыл бұрын
what, dnd is a barely working buggy game beta with a 36 euro entry and a cash shop.
@LionUnchained
Жыл бұрын
Games retail for $50-60 None of the cash shop items impact gameplay, I think this is an appropriate hybrid approach. (See how they handled the feedback on bard/warlock being behind paywall) If you would see what Nexon wanted to turn the game into it was egregious and the risk the founding team members took to protect their game from the suits was legendary. And I'll go ahead and quote my first post: "Regardless of whether or not the gameplay" @@ggs4869
@EskiZagra
Жыл бұрын
It is not the live service nature of those games that is the issue; it is the bad practices associated with them. Season passes, microtransactions, incomplete games, day 1 patches, looooong alphas or short Betas etc etc. Back in the day, they shipped them at least complete...
@HadouGun
Жыл бұрын
For me I think with how much they are monetising gaming as Gamers we need to make sure we are financially ready to even have enough to play games at all, like we need to be financially secure before we spend even an extra cent, $25 skins in games, that's an hours worth of work for most people.
@stuartjackson4774
Жыл бұрын
unpopular opinion- i really loved anthem. i had every class with an endgame build, and i had every achievement, and every legendary to play around with. the first big update wasn't incredible, but it was still fun to try and beat your own score a few times, and the min-maxers were a bit toxic
@select20
Жыл бұрын
I had been feeling the same way these past few years. I had been logging in daily, or lets say 5 times a week, into live service games since WoW released. It had become my go to method to relax. With the release of Starfield, my daily logging in has been broken. Since Starfield released, I haven't logged in any of live service game and like you, I am so sick of them. Thankfully I have a ton of games to play to fill the time, Starfield, BG3 and AC6 to name a few.
@nippijuju
Жыл бұрын
Live service “updates” are same rehashed content with a new coat of paint. The problem is people are geared to naturally be competitive with no patience and gambling of some sorts. With that companies know whats best to make them money the most without caring of “customers.”
@ThePlayBucket
Жыл бұрын
The amount of people that make all sorts of arguments in defence of these kinds of things due to sunk cost fallacy is a very simple way of proving the Casino comparisons
@Nadan_Odanado
Жыл бұрын
It might just be me, but vids like these are feeling more like a conversation (that I sit and listen to) rather than a scripted essay...kinda cool tbh.
@oskartholen7081
Жыл бұрын
I feel as if I don't really mind live service as much, however I don't like this version we are having now. Because frankly its exhausting. Being met with offers, and deals and things to close down before getting to the game each time I log in. When I first got into WoW i was met with epic music and a mysterious login screen, followed instantly by the character screen followed by my adventure. It was all awesome. I am no longer surprised if a game throws 3 deals at me and reminds me of the battle pass each time I login. Some even is worse and gives me a deal right after every time I play a match. You can see this quite well with hearthstone if you compare the launch to today. And that game has always had a fairly problematic business model. I more often than not stop playing games today out of exhaustion rather then losing interest or not finding the gameplay to be fun.
@kobrraful
Жыл бұрын
maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan, you had to hit me with the Firefall memories. dammit Force, got me right in the feels and it's not even 10am yet where I'm at
@MagicManICT
Жыл бұрын
In regards to communities that have set up emulation servers for games that have shut down, particularly Star Wars Galaxies and Warhammer Online, haven't the US courts ruled that as long as a company has shut down such a game, they are effectively giving up some of their rights to trademarks/copyrights, and that as long as those running the servers do not try to earn a profit off of it, the company that holds the rights to the IP can't shut them down? I know I read something about it on the site for the SWG emulation community, but dont' recall the details.
@TastyTatorTots
Жыл бұрын
He’s only 9k from 1mil! Love this for my favorite content creator on KZitem! Hell yeah dude, you deserve it
@MetalPhantomX
Жыл бұрын
As a gamer, I am personally insulted and ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTED by the whole FOMO AND GOTCHA systems, as well as, p2w games. So much so that these days i have almost stopped playing games cuz I am sick and tired of being bombarded by these disgusting practices
@crboxRTS
Жыл бұрын
Live service were supposed to bring a revenue stream to the game after it's release with the intent to invest a lot of that money into developing new content. In reality they just pocket most of the cash and make minimal efforts to create new content / new mechanics or anything creative at all. Just spitting out new assets with almost no thoughts behind it. The idea of Live service in games wasn't a bad one, until you factor in corporate greed.
@paganlark7037
Жыл бұрын
I really appreciated this video. As a developer at an AAA studio on a live service game, I get kinda demoralized by a lot of the creator content about live services. This video took a nuanced view of the topic. I wish I could just be making deep story-driven, character-driven RPGs like Baldur's Gate.
@muzamilnabinadroo
Жыл бұрын
I think Sony maybe digging its own grave with the 10-12+ Live service games they're trying to ship into the market I think Sony is expecting most of their Live service games to not break successfully into the market and that's why they're trying different genres. Nevertheless not a risk less adventure.
@Enethriel
Жыл бұрын
1 thing I keep being baffled about: How the hell has CGI improved SO LITTLE since 2004? My main reference points are the Blizzard Cinematics and the LotR trilogy. ESPECIALLY the LotR trilogy. It's like Peter Jackson hired alien employees - I'd say employees from the future, but the future is now and work ethic SUCKS ASS compared to then. Literally 99% of CGI in movies even from 2023 is worse than what we see in Lord of the Rings. One explanation is that the quality of workers just declined significantly since then, which I'm pretty certain is the case. Still WTF, it's been 20 years forfucksake.
@MarioLeCarre
Жыл бұрын
Real gamers don't really play a lot of live service games as much as they used to in the past. But on the other hand, casual gamers love them, and there are more casual gamers than real gamers. lol
@miothan
Жыл бұрын
A bit part of the problem TODAY with "live service" is that almost all live service games now-a-days chop up their games into pieces and sell them as microtransactions or paid battle pass exclusives, no longer do you get a complete game if you pay 60$, no no no, pay out of your a** in the single player game or else you only get 70% of the game experience.....
@tibi___
Жыл бұрын
He is basically saying that all games that get updates, expansions and that you play online, are live services, which would be categorized as live service games, although some offline games also fall in this broad definition. He is not wrong, just not bringing much to the topic at hand. People are not mad because online games..The problem with live service games is not the live component, but its everything else pretty much. You get single player games that are online only, you get the over-monetization, the incomplete games, the expansions that bring basic functionality that should have been there since day 1, the content hidden behind a cash shop, and so on. A more accurate name for the video would have been around the lines of "How predatory monetization ruined gaming", or something around those lines.
@soldierhobbes1182
Жыл бұрын
If casinos could legally get kids into their doors and gambling, they would do it in a heartbeat. Luckily for them, they found a workaround for that via the mobile gaming market. It's not everything wrong with gaming today but it's definitely a big part of it. As for live service specifically, it definitely started off with decent intentions but just like anything that gets popular, with enough time the parasites get wind of it and begin to ruin it for everyone else.
@Samwise494
Жыл бұрын
What is the constant ticking in the background audio?
@bronloch2920
Жыл бұрын
YEA the the total unavailability of games purchased should be a larger legal issue and the modular monetization of game mechanics to incentivize financial interaction should be a much much larger integrity issue in gaming!
@GeorgeNoX
Жыл бұрын
As someone who mostly plays live service games (MMORPG's and looter shooters mostly) i kind of have to agree that they suck, but interestingly enough even if i play live service games, i tend to play them solo. I guess constant new content is what keeps me playing them. Plus they are not as hardware intense so i can use one setup for them for years without having to upgrade, that is a big plus. However i have to say that at this point i have been wanting to switch fully to single player games because those would mostly always offer better stories and i always mostly play games for their stories and also lately all of these microtransactions in online games have been putting me of more and more
@mortenwheeloftimem2911
Жыл бұрын
Yeah, the 3A gaming industry is all kinds of messed up now, and it has been for years. It's to the point that I'm allergic to the bullshit, so whenever I hear "Battlepass", "in-game store", "live service" and "10 year plan", I Just groan very painfully. Most of the time I don't even want to touch these games now.
@WarframeCrunch
Жыл бұрын
It's no longer a state where GAMERS do GAMES for GAMERS, but now it's just a Business. Business man make people pay for the limits they put in their games.
@firun2635
7 ай бұрын
Firefall! Man, I loved that game. Before things went bad it had such a special vibe and feeling. One of the games that never were that I TRULY miss.
@Glowbox3D
Жыл бұрын
Are you riffing on a script? Bullet points? What your secret; you’re really good at talking. I’m not a fan of the current zeitgeist of trimming every breath and thought-bridge, but your vids are great.
@OrganicJKW
Жыл бұрын
All the WildStar clips made me wish there was a sequel in the works.
@ARIEL-rp3vw
Жыл бұрын
Remmnant 2 is a great example of a great game. No shop but with constant actualitations and you can play offline if you want.
@eligreg99
Жыл бұрын
Remnant 2 has its own issues. Unrelated to the video of course but still a good game to buy
@WARofROSES
Жыл бұрын
People spending more money and time on Live Service games doesn't mean they're objectively good, or better. Most of them are multiplayer and are not story driven games. Meaning they're basically endless entertainment, rather than experiencing the story once and that's it. They're literally designed with retention as the most important concept. People now would spend time on a game that's ever changing rather than a static story or some of the absolutely embarrassingly bad single player games in the past few years. It's not as cut and dry of an explanation.
@hazalad
Жыл бұрын
Somewhere along the way, live service games forgot they also need to be fun to play.
@Hoigwai
Жыл бұрын
They don't just hire slot machine designers. The casino industry spent decades doing live research on patrons across Las Vegas. Smells, sounds, colors, and how often do you need to win to continue playing regardless of how much you lose. Every single thing that can manipulate you was researched. These researchers sold this data and their services to every industry that wanted them. They know exactly how to make your logic centers turn off and for you to run on pure emotion. I'm fried on live service. It takes a lot to get me to try a new one. Diablo 4 is one that I played because I know I can do the story and enjoy it, and be done until an xpac comes along.
@LordJaroh
11 ай бұрын
You know how I know the non-mmo style live service games are full of shit with their monetization claims? No Man's Sky. Buy the game, Continuous, large updates, all for free. No extra microtransactions needed. These companies don't want "enough" money to keep going. They want "all" the money, for the least amount of work.
@nivlekhardtown
Жыл бұрын
you finished the game , you went to the game shop to sell the game and get another game , good old days
@camtho7117
Жыл бұрын
57 seconds into the video and I’ve almost word for word said this very thing in multiple debates 😂.
@dxd15-u1j
Жыл бұрын
"The game you just like keeps getting better". That's some copium.
@jimcarrey2866
Жыл бұрын
I think it's just we're getting old. If you take a look at the amount of game people have access to now because they're free, it's insane. I used to have 2 or 3 games a year and I was happy, now there are 10k new games every. Sure, they're really close to gambling, but people can choose to play them or not
@axelstuart2707
Жыл бұрын
"You can't escape live service games". Yes, yes you can. Played the Open Beta of WoW. That was enough. I remember it went on for 2 weeks, I didn't even played that long. After the first week I was like "What the hell am I doing this for?" The grind, the leveling, etc. If it has no end, why start? Played quite some MP games, mostly shooters, because it was fun and there was Progression within me, as a player. I got better, that was fun. As soon as I need some items to keep up, it's over for me. No matter if you can directly buy it or only grind for countless hours.
@Chriscras2
Жыл бұрын
this goes back to the wow xp bar lol, the longer it takes to reach 60 the longer you stay subbed.
@stephenbaker6534
Жыл бұрын
If games sell items that cost real money, it should be illegal for them to show any other currency than what we are spending in real life: dollars, euros, etc.
@housecat_
Жыл бұрын
Always fascinated me how Live Service Games tend to lack the one thing they're meant to do - SERVICE the game. Cutting out content from what would have been an otherwise complete game, just to drip feed it back to players through a battle pass or microtransactions is what happens most of the time, instead of actually impementing new, fun content and building on a complete product.
@GrillerGT
Жыл бұрын
Yikes, the last 'full game' I played was Nier: Automata... since then it's been Overwatch, GI and now HSR...
@cmillertime7477
Жыл бұрын
It's not that live service games are bad, that's an incredibly short-sighted view of things. The issue is that the suits are heavily involved in the industry now thanks to its massive size (more than Hollywood and music combined), which means greed is running rampant. Extreme greed. And, frankly, we as consumers need to take some ownership here, for actually spending our money on the trash they put out. Looking at anyone playing Diablo 4 or supporting Blizzard in any way. Stop that. Control your impulses. No game is worth supporting unethical practices.
@snowballandpals
Жыл бұрын
KZitem meta tends to bandwagon on things sucking in gaming.. live service, monetization, Diablo 4, etc
@stevethompson3964
Жыл бұрын
I watched the first 10 minutes. Yes, I’m that guy who didn’t finish the video. You speak of replaying a video game you have already beaten, as a bad thing. When I originally play a game, I might spend every waking minute trying to beat said game. The second or 12th play through, I’m spending more time savoring the experience. You don’t get that in a live service game. “Starting over” and learning every facet of the game as it was meant to be when the studio sent it out, is no longer a thing. And, that makes me sad.
@GlitchedVision
Жыл бұрын
if you wanna see the right way to end a live service, look no farther than capcom's release of megaman x dive offline. Sure, the game has some problems inherent to its gatcha game design but I think they did at least a decent job of preserving a majority of the experience. A few key things are missing but they are in most cases related to the fact that the new version is completely offline and thus has no internet connectivity at all and the rest was cut to reduce grind which is fair and good in my book. Granted, they could have done a nice thing in giving long time players of the live version some sort of discount but what company even does that these days? If you know what you're getting into before you go in, x dive offline is a solid experience and the right way to end a live service.
@WolfhoundTheGreat
Жыл бұрын
I just want to know what those games are you had in the video!
@CDLightt
Жыл бұрын
ESO is buy to play, has a sub, has pretty extreme pay for convenience, has lootboxes and also locks 99% of cool cosmetics behind the cash shop
@zox101
Жыл бұрын
Dude make Podcast ALONE! 😂😂❤✌️
@benn87
9 ай бұрын
The argument in favour of these live service games is always that you are supposed to play them for a long time. But you can play a good single-player game for just as long if it really hooks you. The problem for publishers, however, is that they can only cash in once on such a single-player game. But I don't really care. The whole Live Service rubbish can go to hell...
@iulixMAXgames
Жыл бұрын
Most of the live service games are really bad but the problem is they are also really addictive so they don't need to be good to be really popular they are designed in a way for people to play them and spend money the same as any vice like drinking and smoking 🤷♂️
@ToyokaX
Жыл бұрын
The reason these games are shutting down is because people are either 1. sick of the constant FOMO/daily baiting to stay in a game despite a thousand other similar games existing, grasping their attention or 2. the player(s) is/are already invested in another live service game and can't split their time between more than one vying for their attention. the solution is to stop making games that are so heavy at the start of their life cycle and instead let players pick these games up over a period of time. Companies aren't trying hard enough to make interesting games, they are just creating overly-designed shopping simulators with a husk of a game attached to it.
@danielcoimbra8652
Жыл бұрын
Games used to be a form of art, not unlike cinema. Nowadays, however, only a few can have such merit.
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