Something I forgot to touch on in the video is how much all of this ALSO sucks for the Developers. You know, the people who actually make the games. Imagine spending ~5 years of your life building something from the ground up, only to have it abandoned, and erased from existence by your Publisher because it wasn't making enough of an ROI. If you want to shut things down and spend your money elsewhere, sure, I get it. Business is business. But to Thanos Snap it off the face of the planet? What a bummer for all those involved in creating games.
@ninochaosdrache3189
Жыл бұрын
It's hard for me to feel sympathy, since those devs are also the ones who don't finish their games properly before release or miss to give their game atmosphere, immersion or fun gameplay. For example, it surely wasn't Andrew Wilson who decided that all maps in BF2042 need to be large, open plains without any cover or that the Specialists must have cringy dialogue. And if you start working at AAA studio, you should know by now what negative sides this has.
@allthatishere
Жыл бұрын
@@ninochaosdrache3189 I get what your saying, but to pin all of the blame on the developers is also pretty silly.
@skylerfreeman1173
Жыл бұрын
@@ninochaosdrache3189 Pretending as if developers arent just cogs in a machine ... a very corporate large one at that. Yea they have some responsibility (like a wendy's worker making a sloppy burger) but lets not forget WHY these things happen: Crunch, deadlines, layoffs, scope creep, changing focuses, design bloat, etc. Theres just too many variables to be able to NOT have sympathy. Do you think developers WANT to ship unfinished games the way they do? No, but realistically 'shit happens' and theres little they can do about it.. And then we have our beloved indie devs
@allthatishere
Жыл бұрын
@@skylerfreeman1173 You make really good points, and I can't help but remember the development hell Anthem went through. Upper management had the genius idea to make their developers use the Frostbite engine for that game... an engine that was originally made to support the Battlefield series. They struggled having to spend so much time trying to retool the engine to support an RPG project.
@handsomebear.
Жыл бұрын
Yep, _too much_ focus on ROI is the death of creative passion and quality products.
@pongo-7111
Жыл бұрын
Abandonware laws need to actually become a real thing for preservation and consumer protection.
@samgoff5289
Жыл бұрын
That wouldn't change anything because it wouldn't make sense to keep a game server running with 100 people worldwide playing...if a game is dead it obviously can't be maintained
@PhenomRom
Жыл бұрын
@@samgoff5289 let the fans maintain it then
@leoleo1035
Жыл бұрын
@@PhenomRom And let them get a hold of intellectual property? That's not how the world works. It would be amazing, but it just won't ever work.
@ninochaosdrache3189
Жыл бұрын
@@leoleo1035 You can have player operated servers, like BF3&4 had.
@allthatishere
Жыл бұрын
@WhY So SeRioUs? Naruto ninja storm series?
@MahalGC
Жыл бұрын
Hopefully in the future live service games are legally required to go open source after they've sunsetted for a period of time, as it is a shame that there's passion in fans to keep a game alive but the original devs can say no to it for any reason. Or every game should be like Valve games, where you can feasibly host servers of your own regardless of Valve's availability.
@TheRealOAFs
Жыл бұрын
Imagine how good gaming would have been for the last 6 years if they went open source
@Shatteredstarful
Жыл бұрын
It is impressive what communities do for things like private servers. Heck the City of Heros Homecoming thing has done so much for the game for example and thats all not NC soft.
@level12lobster8
Жыл бұрын
@@Shatteredstarful You mean City of Villains right? Villains > Heroes
@1IGG
Жыл бұрын
Lol? The lobbyist have 0 incentive to lobby for that, so it will never become a law.
@MahalGC
Жыл бұрын
@@1IGG True, after all no one wants to put time and effort on changing/removing daylight savings despite many people wanting for it to be removed.
@theritchie2173
Жыл бұрын
"Piracy is almost always a service problem, not a pricing problem" - Gabe Newell.
@samgoff5289
Жыл бұрын
@@Efnolwhen your mom goes to bed get in her purse, find the credit cards and get some free points
@samgoff5289
Жыл бұрын
@@Efnol yep. They give free points in exchange for some random numbers, how cool is that!
@pranze3484
Жыл бұрын
Yeah, and the same goes for other supports, people download mkv of the blueray they bought so they don't have to watch unskippable advertisements, which is a big finger to consumers
@lycanwarrior2137
Жыл бұрын
Ironically, Steam helped pioneer DRM since according to their own EULA you don't actually own the games and that it can be revoked at any time from what I've heard others say.
@Sephiroso.
Жыл бұрын
@@lycanwarrior2137 Yea, you lose access to your steam account, you lose all the games you "own" in the steam library
@roughknight5370
Жыл бұрын
I thought for the longest time I wanted to play grand multiplayer games like WoW, SWtoR, and ESO after experiencing Halo 2 multiplayer as a teen; and after dabbling in all of them as time has gone on, I found myself most content with playing Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 the last year. I don't have much time nowadays, but putting in 200 hours into a 20+ year-old franchise and playing at my own pace while knowing there will be an end is euphoric.
@tim57564
Жыл бұрын
make sure to give baldurs gate 3 a try, early access has been fantastic so far!
@indictmntt
Жыл бұрын
ESO has always been enjoyable for a single player experience
@billyelliotx
Жыл бұрын
Why I've started turning back to retro games. Plenty of games and console systems I've missed over the years. Plenty of good games to choose from. And at the end of the day, I own the game on my shelf. I can pop it in (as long as the media doesn't degrade or hardware doesn't die) and play the game. No online needed, no daily logins, no microtransactions. It's great.
@TheGravityShifter
Жыл бұрын
Still lots of games to enjoy today from the modern era. Retro is great but doesn't mean the only good things exist there. It surprises me how many think going back to retro is the way to go as if there's not countless smaller studios trying to keep gaming as a passion alive.
@Roggor
Жыл бұрын
There is over 40 years of gaming to choose from, far more than anyone could play on their lifetime. You don't need to put up with garbage modern gaming business practices. Reject modernity, embrace tradition.
@SuperHns
Жыл бұрын
yeah mate I also hooked up my PS2 (which was new bought in 2013 btw, LOL Never used), to a nice CRT TV and have been playing a lot of classic PS2 games on it and man maybe is just my nostalgia but I get a smile on my face playing those games.
@SuperHns
Жыл бұрын
@@TheGravityShifter yeah sure but 90% is the same model, same bullshit on modern games, and as he said, you get a disc but you download such a big patch, if they decide to kill that service your disc is useless and the game wont be playable, while I can pop in my snes/ps2 games and they work
@gabeznl3591
Жыл бұрын
@@TheGravityShifter Going back to retro is totally better to me, lol.
@VideoGamingSociety
Жыл бұрын
As a developer myself I understand really well how much blood & sweat goes into every software project, especially HUGE ones like AAA games. Sadly, what you end up with is your years of hard work being used by the business like a goddamn toilet paper... Seriously, fuck corporations man!!! 😡😡😡
@MalikATL
Жыл бұрын
I mean if you want your game to do real you gotta sell out just saying. imagine making a game for years just to have none one playing it or make barely any money from it.
@ninochaosdrache3189
Жыл бұрын
@@Efnol Because we still give them money and validate them in their actions.
@mattd5240
Жыл бұрын
@@Efnol Corpos don't see their customers as people, only as an obsticle to our money.
@brunomenezes9011
Жыл бұрын
@@ninochaosdrache3189 This is not going to stop. Ever.
@scabby.knees99
Жыл бұрын
The problem with games that hypothetically never end is that once people dedicate their free time to one or two, they never have enough time for a new live service game. There's simply not enough market share for the majority of new live service games to profit without insane levels of marketing and funding
@scabby.knees99
Жыл бұрын
@The Rotten💯 Definitely
@Assassin5671000
Жыл бұрын
Well they are more gamers now then ever before and at least 10 times more then even 10 or 20 years so it makes sense that they would try now more then ever to make games like this. But if they focus on managing to retain let say 30k-100k they probably will have more success
@scabby.knees99
Жыл бұрын
@@Assassin5671000 Sure, there might be ten times as many gamers now than a decade or two ago, probably even more, but it's irrelevant when a handful of games now have ten times as many players as the games back then. The point is, Even with more players, it makes no difference if practically all of them end up playing the same few games anyway.
@scabby.knees99
Жыл бұрын
@@Assassin5671000 To retain even 30k players would be considered miraculous for live service games that aren't part of established franchises. To attract that many players in the first place would make targeting a niche audience out of the question, and would likely mean making a game in a genre that meant competing directly with some big name games. That would also mean the target audience of this game would already have spent time and possibly money on the games being competed with, so would be difficult to poach barring exceptional circumstances; and this is all without considering whether the quality of the game and the frequency of its updates is enough to keep people coming back.
@MangaGamified
Жыл бұрын
Hello! have a bright and beautiful day! 🌅
@underthemayo
Жыл бұрын
I've never known this pain because I've always been so single player focused, but I know are millions out there that play these kinds of games and while it is sad to see them lose support, they should at least leave behind infrastructure for the players to continue. And if they don't, seeing players do it themselves and then suing them is so disgusting.
@ARStudios2000
Жыл бұрын
Eeeey, Mayo! And I concur.
@slightlyaboveaveragebutaverage
Жыл бұрын
@Carl Gunderson Likely for in-game purchases, DRM, updates, etc.
@lrinfi
Жыл бұрын
You soon will, no doubt, as the model has invaded even the single player gaming scene. Just try to buy a new game that's not being developed by an indie company that doesn't require an online connection to play and ts filled with such things as "news updates" (i.e. straight-up advertising). And, of course, brace yourself for the Fallout 76 brand of intentionally misleading marketing claims, e.g. "And, yes, of course. You can play this [multiplayer game] solo." (Brackets mine.) A sleasy and insidious "trend", it is. Not a very becoming look for the gaming industry or any other, which is exactly from where the gaming industry inherited it.
@SuperHns
Жыл бұрын
the sad part is, you forgot to mention probably, IN the past PC games used to have dedicated servers, that you could rent and would keep a game ALIVE, but for some reason the publishers take it on their own to host servers and force you to log in with them, so they can just pull the plug and your product will become useless.
@jeffboy4231
Жыл бұрын
for no real reason too? both of these don't really change the money they make (only thing they care about) and just makes it better for the people that like these games. especially, there could be a chance that the game just randomly picks up in hype because some random dude played it and people start playing again, and then the devs could easily start updating again and such. like it's literally a foolproof plan??
@Oni1975
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for highlighting this issue. This has actually been a long time coming, since the early days of MMOs at least. I don't know what the long-term solution is (there are many possibilities) but the current environment is extremely anti-consumer, so buyers need to be very aware of what they are spending their money on. Anything that requires a server-side connection to play (even if it's just a DRM check) is likely busted once that server is shut down. We've seen this already in game modes no longer available in games. Technically, you can take this one step further with game venues like Steam and the Epic Store--we're in age right now where consumers don't actually own what they paid for--just because it's software. Shifting game delivery to online from physical shifted all the power into the publishers' hands.. Federal law is severely behind on pretty much all facets of the online economy, so gamers need to watch out for themselves, especially in the days of $70 releases.
@ninochaosdrache3189
Жыл бұрын
And that's why I stick to console, retail or GoG. Nobody can take away my game, if I still have the disc at home.
@orbbb24
Жыл бұрын
@@ninochaosdrache3189 If the game is designed to look for a server connection before being playable, a disc won't fix that.
@allthatishere
Жыл бұрын
@@ninochaosdrache3189 Just because you have a disc doesn't mean the game is everlasting. I still have my physical copy of "MAG" on PS3 and the game is unplayable; can you guess why? The servers for it were shut down back in 2014.
@speed3414
Жыл бұрын
@@ninochaosdrache3189 theorically they can program online checks even on the disc, Xbox One was going to do this, PS4 had something similar before they patched it, some games like GT7 can't be played offline even of you have the disc, and let's not talk about discs that only work to download the games and games being broken at launch Physical media is just another way to store the files
@frontline989
Жыл бұрын
Man I really do think this is the most important issue facing the gaming industry today. Not enough people talking about this. There needs to be legal action to make things change.
@1IGG
Жыл бұрын
Gaming industry consists 90% of idiots who spend money in shitty mobile games. They couldn't care less about the tiny core gaming niche.
@squaeman_2644
Жыл бұрын
Live service games are like devs telling you you're allowed to play a product you purchased when the product isn't a service, but a good. You should own that copy, it's like apple bricking old phones so you have to purchase a new one...
@Centrioless
Жыл бұрын
This is like asking for any online services to never end. Its just not gon happen. I can assure you there will never be a legal action for this matter
@Indigo_Gaming
Жыл бұрын
Always nice to see a fellow Evolve fan. There are dozens of us! *Dozens!*
@comet.x4359
Жыл бұрын
any game as a service shutdown could easily be solved by making servers open source and letting people run them privately. or games as a service could be done like deeprock where people host their own servers anyways
@TheRealOAFs
Жыл бұрын
Death of live service games doesn't = death of greed. Greed was what killed live service games
@jmmywyf4lyf
Жыл бұрын
Games as a Service was absolutley born of greed. MMO was a genre all its own. Majority of live service games today, had to be deliberately designed with services and monetization in mind. They had no need to be built as a service, instead of just as a complete game.
@ninochaosdrache3189
Жыл бұрын
Nah. Life service is an inferiour product compared to complete games or paid DLC.
@TheRealOAFs
Жыл бұрын
@@ninochaosdrache3189 definitely
@LordBathtub
Жыл бұрын
It's not the death it's the bubble bursting and the genre finding its actual, consistent player base
@memetic_hazard
Жыл бұрын
I love games like Monster Hunter and Dark Souls where you can always play offline and get 90% of the gaming experience but playing online can offer you more. Sure, the servers may eventually shut down (RIP Dark Souls PtD Edition) but the fundamental game will still be there. According to your definition they are technically live service because they do continue to get updates for some time - DLC for the souls games and free content updates plus MTX cosmetics for MHW and now MHR. So I'm hoping that live service games in the future will be more like this than the turds we're currently flooded with.
@MangaGamified
Жыл бұрын
Hello! have a nice sunny day! 🌅
@MangaGamified
Жыл бұрын
And those updates are getting fewer and smaller in between, and sell expensive passes to give the illusion of saving money. And the next update they sell season pass II instead, alongside the new content that's only purchasable directly or the new season pass II. Why there's so many sub definitions of live service? from the base word live, it's alive cause someday it can be dead, like shutting down the server.
@smug_slime
Жыл бұрын
@@MangaGamified I'd say every game that needs to connect to servers is a live service games, this includes every games that need patches, games that have DRM like denuvo and even every game that you download from digital store from consoles and PC.
@MangaGamified
Жыл бұрын
@@smug_slime Why everyone always go literal philosophical? like when people argue it's P2W, other people literal philosopo that you don't win when you pay, no matter what is explained, they had decided and picked online-only so it wont get pirated and won't get played when they plan to make a sequel. Insurmountable games in mobile that doesn't really need online-only but decided it won't run w/out data cause it won't load ads if there's no data. This fact will only be more and more prevalent as you grow older, the only thing the game needs ISP/data for is when the time updates and/or DLC download are needed. There are games that can be played 99% offline like dark souls but can also be updated with a DRM like Steam. I'm not one of those ignorant people, the consumer engineering use of the term live-service, it's the political version of online-only, like how the military uses "neutralize" instead of "killed". Or Propriety Software instead of Paid Software. I should also teach you that F2P games are rampant cause there are
@smug_slime
Жыл бұрын
@@MangaGamified why would anyone go literal philosophical? because it's fun really, at least for me it is to some extent and because it's fun I'm gonna add some of your points. Not all F2P are P2W, it depends on case by case. One example that I'd use is genshin impact, you don't need to pay a cent to be good at the game and you can definitely go through the game with free character and there no one to compete anyway. I'd go so far to say that if you are whaling on genshin you'd have worse experience playing it compared to F2P player especially now with the new character dehya. Most if not all ad supported only mobile games can be played offline, it's not as many as you think. Even steam DRM can be annoying when offline because you need to run it first online then you can use it offline. It is more affected on steam deck. checkout "Steam Deck on an airplane could be better." by MetalJesusRocks to see what I mean, I'd love to give you links but it might get me shadowban instead. For F2P whale ratio to have
@Redbeardflynn
Жыл бұрын
Fantastic video Force. I think this is the fastest I've ever caught one of your uploads. I'm glad you mentioned some kf the games that have done it well like everquest and wow alongside some of the more nefarious failures
@Redbeardflynn
Жыл бұрын
@WhY So SeRioUs? Have you tried Temtem? probably the closest you'll get for a while.
@Redbeardflynn
Жыл бұрын
@WhY So SeRioUs? I haven't played it yet but watched a bit and it seemed fun.
@Wolf_Spark
Жыл бұрын
I had a small discussion with my friends on this topic, when we talked about the future of Genshin Impact. That's a game where the devs plan to have it up and running for at least 10 years. And we where debating if the game dies in 5 years (doubt it with how much money they make) how are we gonna still play the game? From what we've seen, the game seem to have stored all the files in our PC, and the only way it knows what characters we have and what's our current progression in the story is by connecting to Hoyoverse servers. Kinda how some devs let you download the full game off Steam and only when you pay for said DLC, do you have access to it, even tho the DLC is already on your pc. Basically a game like GI should be quite easy to transform in a single player game (it pretty much is) that stores the progression, unlocked characters/weapons and levels offline. I'd hate to see the day the servers on that games shut down and we never gonna be able to play it.
@Akabane101
Жыл бұрын
Hi, Force. I should just quickly mention that you can still play Evolve, as it's currently available to play thanks to utilizing steam's servers and peer-to-peer connectivity. It just requires that you've owned the game before they shut it down. I just figured I'd mention it, as you said you'd be happy to go back and try out Evolve at least once more. Hope this helps. Thanks for amazing gaming related news and content as always.
@Akabane101
Жыл бұрын
@@paradoxxor7770 Oh, that's very cool!
@DishonoredSkull
Жыл бұрын
@@paradoxxor7770 You can play with a digital copy so long as you had if before or GameShare, you can still play multilayer with people. I still find matches on Xbox
@ThommyGunnGaming
Жыл бұрын
Great Vid force, awesome breakdown, I think of many of those games, like Friday the 13th, that when it lost support, it made it so players could go Peer to Peer and continue to play together. I don't see why they can't do something similar. Also, the ending had me cracking up, as you were putting on the sweater, i was getting Mr. Rogers Neighborhood vibes, lol, was waiting for you to change your shoes and walk out of the room lol. Have a great weekend!
@1IGG
Жыл бұрын
Lol? Even if we disregard copy right laws. Why would a publisher want you to enjoy something for free instead of milking the ever living piss out of you? Look at angry birds. They removed it from the play store because people were playing this instead of their MTX heavy other games.
@ThommyGunnGaming
Жыл бұрын
@@1IGG that's a free to play game, I'm talking Paid to play, like F13 or Babylon's Fall, as mentioned in the video (I thought it looked like crap so never got it) but, those we should be able to continue to play with some friends. Free to play games, if they drop, was never mine to begin with imho
@xenobreak1160
Жыл бұрын
Angry Birds was $0.99, not free.
@ThommyGunnGaming
Жыл бұрын
@@xenobreak1160 Gotcha, I've never had to pay for Angry birds, always been free from Play Store, even right now Angry Birds 2 is free. I don't buy mobile games only play free.
@xenobreak1160
Жыл бұрын
@@ThommyGunnGaming All the other Rovio games are free, with in-app purchases. None of these games were doing well yet Angry Birds 1 was still selling really well. So Rovio removed it from Play Store and told customers to play their other games instead. It's still on the iOS app store though but they renamed it to Red's First Flight. It's #2 on the iOS app store right now behind Minecraft 😅
@RyanS406
Жыл бұрын
Technology is very much a double edged sword … we have the ability to get patches to fix unintentional or overlooked issues but publishers also push out unfinished trash because of that ability.
@not0mrh
Жыл бұрын
I cannot play games with daily missions anymore. It's mentally exhausting for me, because I have the tendency to need it "all" when playing. Now, i'm sticking mostly to offline games or games with wireless co-op to play with friends.
@user-lz5vh9bb5w
Жыл бұрын
I absolutely despise live service games, especially the ones with "battle passes" and other FOMO-like design systems.
@boyoferos
Жыл бұрын
Marvel Heros was my child hood. I haven’t heard that name in ages
@carlosreyesf19
Жыл бұрын
It also happens to games that are still alive but got incrementally updated over time. Even if the game itself is still accessible, we will never be able to revisit previous versions of the game.
@ravendelacrux
Жыл бұрын
Wild star was so unique, even FusionFall mmo was closed even if CN wasn’t caring about fan proyects, until rumours start spreading and kill it. As I say, a game has a red flag in their studio if it’s sustained by the art department which draws us in again to discover new wallpaper, cinemática and character in front of a hidden hyper monetised or badly designed gameplay.
@tonnymiller123
Жыл бұрын
grew up with the commodore 64 where I could get 500 free games on one single tape..those were the days.
@ItIsMeJamesE
Жыл бұрын
Epic Games store gives a free game every week... more in December , other platforms give some out also. Plus the increasing library of free to play games what is the difference?
@ninochaosdrache3189
Жыл бұрын
@@ItIsMeJamesE That he owned his Commodore games and said games didn't try to nickel and dime you or required you to be online all the time.
@Arashmickey
Жыл бұрын
Always happy to see a spotlight on games preservation.
@nicktomilin383
Жыл бұрын
Saw Evolve on the Thumbnail so I clicked. I loved that game, even tho started few months before they shut down the servers. Still wanna play it again, at least locally with some friends. Such a shame.
@aaronko3480
Жыл бұрын
The plot twist at the end totally blew my mind. Well played, good sir. Well played.
@t3chfx13
Жыл бұрын
I saved so much money on gaming from 2005-2010 only playing WoW and when I did decide to pick up a 360 and PS3 I had so many games to play and most were pretty discounted by then it was great. While I like SP games typically there is maybe 3-5 a year I enjoy and given playtime is usually 8-20 hours for most I end up with the majority of the year without anything to play if it wasn't for Live Service titles.
@IwinMahWay
Жыл бұрын
You missed halo 3 bruh
@FedoraKirb
Жыл бұрын
I’m not sure where Dragalia Lost falls since it was F2P with optional micro-transactions, but I miss the game so much. It was incredibly influential to me as a both a game designer and a writer, and the fact that it basically just doesn’t exist in any official capacity really stinks. Pretty much EVERYTHING could be played in Singleplayer besides the Alberian Battle Royale, so why Nintendo and CyGames don’t just do one final release baffles and upsets me.
@Adephx
Жыл бұрын
I'd argue that from the point of preservation, expansions, reworks or just patches are a major issue too. Most games become unrecognizable at the end of their lifecycle, compared to what they were at the beginning.
@mythos4
Жыл бұрын
You said “…. Paying the product that they played for.” I did a double take… hahaha
@ThunderKat
Жыл бұрын
Imagine the day we have too many game developers and someone comes with the idea to revive older games, polish and put them back into business with improve features and all that.
@darekpower
Жыл бұрын
Good vid, though genshin is one of the few games not crashing, infect still gaining players, 62mill monthly last time I checked, so it's funny you use it as one of the examples when it's doing so well. And has actually used player spending to triple the size of the original game. I do hope they do make it publicly available when it does die. Though it's going strong for 3 years, and I highly doubt it will die anytime soon unless the game royally screws up.
@DaimyoSexy
Жыл бұрын
Asheron's Call was such an amazing MMO even by todays standards. The fact that they had an entire Patron system where the tutorial of the game is literally another player helping you, giving you hand me downs, and as you level, they gain some of your XP. It created a healthy community and gameplay loop where players would literally show you secret dungeons etc.
@chitin122
Жыл бұрын
Part of the reason I only play peer to peer games or single player only games, indie games often don't have the balls to pull this kind of scam and think that its worth 70 to more than a 100 dollar up front price and we should be thankful for it. The other scam that needs to be addressed in the courts is these companies putting their games on extreme sales like 75% or higher off a few short months before announcing ending their service. If it was a clearance sale or something at a physical store it would make sense but this is nothing more than robbery for vaporware in reality.
@R3TR0J4N
Жыл бұрын
whenever the game has "online-only", high chance it replicates what Chinese market titles does best.
@randyg280
Жыл бұрын
I hate MTX and GaaS. It's a shame that so many kids grew up in an age where the greed was normalized, they don't know to fight against the greed and anti-consumer tactics. I do think they should patch live service games that lose support to no longer require a connection and offer players the ability to play with friends via P2P. Speaking of private servers, I'd totally play a version of Destiny 1 that started from launch all the way to the final content patch. D2 just isn't for me. For Wildstar, I wish NCSoft would give someone else the rights for it, they're just sitting on it.
@em3sis
Жыл бұрын
This video lays out exactly why I moved to the table top gaming market.
@MangaGamified
Жыл бұрын
Hmm reminds me of those what I call physical fads like Beyblade, Tamiya, Fidget Spinner, etc. Any cool table top in mind?
@em3sis
Жыл бұрын
@@MangaGamified magic the gathering, Warhammer, Infinity, stand alone board games i.e. blood rage, res arcana, root etc. There is an ocean of RPG tabletop content these days. It's not perfect because it brings different challenges (storage, damage, theft etc) but the even when Games workshop stops making Warhammer, I'll still have my books and my models and my friends can still all play.
@squaeman_2644
Жыл бұрын
@@MangaGamified I've gotten more and more into board games. There's great games like Root, or Terraforming Mars
@Jerry_quesoso
Жыл бұрын
Back in my awkward teenager era with no access to a good PC nor latest consoles I used to play some Live Service games (in this case, gacha games) on my phone. The thing is that not long ago I got a reality check, I tried to check on those games for the sake of nostalgia and you know what happened? The games are completely INACCESSIBLE. It made me realize how horrible this business model can be in the long run by both users, devs and a preservation standpoint. The stuff you got, the money you spent, the hard effort invested by the devs, all lost because the company higher ups don't care.
@touchtablet3364
Жыл бұрын
Very good video, thank you for sharing your research and contributing to our learning about the video game industry. Lots of encouragement and happiness for you, thank you from France!
@RuneKatashima
Жыл бұрын
Listen, I jumped to 9:30. I've heard this argument before. It's ultimately pointless and designed to rile gamers up. Life is a series of esoteric experiences. Ever go to a concert? Lotta money that is. Ever go to a convention? Comic Con? A Fan Fest? Even more. You don't really get to keep anything from those things other than other goods that you also buy there. Sometimes you get a wee goodie bag, but the bag isn't worth the price of admission. But you paid for it, and you keep nothing... except the experience. The memories. And any friends you made along the way. I have MANY physical games I can no longer access now in my 30s due to parents either getting rid of them or an "accident" or accidents. In a few cases, outright stolen. Whether you can keep your game or not is ultimately unimportant. Just make sure you enjoyed yourself. Because if you didn't, THEN your money was truly wasted.
@JohnJohnson-rf9xc
Жыл бұрын
Searched the comment section for 10 minutes trying to find this comment. Especially when it comes to purely multiplayer games like counterstrike, league, etc.
@Marinealver
Жыл бұрын
This heralds the 2nd AAA Videogame Industry Crash... And I welcome it!
@TheRealOAFs
Жыл бұрын
The gaming industry crashed ages ago, it's just these live service games made it seem like that didn't happen
@chocogamer5398
Жыл бұрын
A crash is a bad thing nothing good can come from it
@almightygod87
Жыл бұрын
Literally never gonna happen. Gaming is just too big nowadays
@yungpark6435
Жыл бұрын
@@TheRealOAFs we saw how profitable "cheap" mobile games can be, directly challenging the financial efficacy of AAA-tier games in the PC and console realm
@runbaa9285
Жыл бұрын
I feel like no one talks about the fighting game genre and how the genre basically moved on to a live-service model out of necessity than monetary incentive. The need for patches and additional content to keep the game balanced and alive was one of the reasons why there were so many versions of Street Fighter 2 in the past, for example. Super, Turbo, Hyper, etc, etc. And they were all sold as separate new full-price games, which divided the playerbase, who might prefer the newer or older versions of the same game. Now, new content and fixes just comes as DLC characters and patches rather than new games of their own. It certainly helped in unifying the playerbase of a game rather than dividing it as it did in the past.
@tahirravat131
Жыл бұрын
A lot of the same points as Empress regarding how we don't own our games. She might be unhinged but she's not wrong.
@TeajayWF
Жыл бұрын
From my own perspective, the mobile games market is also full of so called "f2p" service games. Famous examples might be Clash of Clans, Candy Crush, Pokemon Go or Rise of Kingdoms. If you look at the revenue from those games, it is simply insane. I would say only Fifa Ultimate Team might come close from stationary gaming. So basically the amount of money which is spent is way higher than on PC / Konsoles. Mobile Gamers are used to it nowadays. It doesnt come from nowhere, that in Googles Play Store there is an extra label for games who are played offline, namely "premium" games. I think the mobile market yet has not seen too many shutdowns with great impact. but as you said people move on at some point. Thank you so much for your well produced and inspiring content. I would be very thankful, if you keep an eye on this topic and maybe make an update video in the future :)
@cinystarr4657
Жыл бұрын
Oof - this makes me so happy that I never played these service games but it's a total rip to consumers! I wonder why they sue you if you play after they end their service to the game?
@thethrift6392
Жыл бұрын
@WhY So SeRioUs? It already is live service, you just have to pay $60 (+DLC) every year!
@Risenshinenfall
Жыл бұрын
They need to sue to protect their trademark.
@cinystarr4657
Жыл бұрын
@therotten6152 Oh lord,please do not say that!
@cinystarr4657
Жыл бұрын
@therotten6152 🤬🤬😭😰
@Skvalpenotta
Жыл бұрын
Imagine buying a car, then the car manufacturer discontinues that car model, so they come to your house and take it back
@Level-ts7xl
Жыл бұрын
imagine punishing fans for wanting to play your game that you no longer give a shit about
@BreadCatMarcus
Жыл бұрын
Man, the OG Star Wars Galaxies was fantastic. Such good memories with my Bio-Engineer Pre-CU
@Frostycrypton
Жыл бұрын
Skit at the beginning of the video is too relatable. Happens to me every time I watch my favorite Force Gaming videos.
@Otazihs
Жыл бұрын
It's not that our (US) courts are lagging behind, it's that some stand to gain by keeping it lagging behind. The amount of money that is thrown towards lawmakers via lobbying is absolutely the culprit.
@m.b.8282
Жыл бұрын
Valve started this "online games with lootbox economy" trend with lootboxes in tf2. Big companies tried to replicate that but many of them failed so now they returned to making normal games. It was that greedy reasoning that stopped game developers from making good games almost for 10 years.
@miel307
Жыл бұрын
I just wanna see a change in how life service games are threated. Back in the day updates were huge and contained much content. Nowadays we are being dripfed the bare minimum of content, in some cases even less then that. The thing is, we know and sure ashell the studio's know that the amount is they feed us is allmost nothing compaired to what dlcs used to be. And yet, they still keep doing it that day. Also, content used to be playable and refreshing, nowadays it is grindy, boring and mostly its just skins of stuff, not even something new......
@ninochaosdrache3189
Жыл бұрын
Really. And despite of this, there are people defending this practice 🤮
@AcidCortex1
Жыл бұрын
Could be a million dollar idea for a company to be formed that would take on these games, charge a small subscription (or whatever) and keep them running.
@coltonwilkie241
Жыл бұрын
None of these games deserve to stay running. They're all free or basically free now with how cheap they are and they're not worth the time or effort.
@deadcan47
Жыл бұрын
But if it is not profitable for the publisher to keep it running, how would you make it feasible for external entity to make it possible? Considering they would have to purchase the rights to the intellectual property upfront as well to make it available. I doubt there is a business case here and at the end it all comes down to "is it viable financially?". Would be nice if the pulishers would allow fans to run their own private servers, but again doubt it will happen, cause it better to hoard the IPs instead of making them free, just in case you can monetize on it in the future. Just look what happened to the mobile Torchlight. Someone sat on the IP for 10 years with no new content released, and now we got a cash grab mobile game made.
@timd7709
Жыл бұрын
Landmark was the game that really pissed me off. Release it unfinished after they closed all future products, let it live for some months, and then close it down fully, to avoid paying people back.
@drewskivanderbilt2897
Жыл бұрын
Here after it was announced that Rocksteady’s Suicide Squad: Kill the Justice League required a constant internet connection for single player…
@RLHvanDijk
Жыл бұрын
Great to see more and more ppl watch Accursed Farms and Ross Scott, he has been talking about these stuff for quite some time now. But not only that, game preservation in general.
@macmartin86
Жыл бұрын
I absolutely love The Division 1, the story and world was incredible, I will cry if that ever shuts down.
@gabeznl3591
Жыл бұрын
I think the most dumb thing someone would do is buy a online game, even worse, a 60$ online game.
@Lastbornschwab7
Жыл бұрын
I remember a while back I picked up Battleborn for $5 in a Walmart clearance bin. My thoughts were, huh this is a Gearbox MOBA, why not. It was an impulse buy. Got it home, installed it, booted it up and was greeted by a message that I could not connect to a server. Knew it wasn't my internet, looked it up online and realized that Gearbox cut support for it so it was essentially a 5 dollar plastic brick. So I'll just never get to try it out. This is as opposed to older generation gaming like you mentioned. I can still pull out a ps2 Wild Arms disk, throw it in an old ps2 fat, and play it with 0 problems (a 23 year old game).
@jamesgatts2
Жыл бұрын
you said firefall. i love that game and you for mentioning it. I think a fairly easy solution is that when a company shuts live service down their server data needs to be made available and open source so that private servers can be made. Maybe make it a part of copywriting a live service game that you have to make the server side data available to a holding company/firm that releases it upon service closure. This would lead to a much larger and easier access to private servers for games we miss like firefall but would still make private servers while live service is still active actionable by the games company. could also lead to a site like Good old Games being a hub for private server access. Just a though.
@I_am_ENSanity
Жыл бұрын
Never preorder, never buy day 1, and never purchase microtransactions.
@kiophoenix
Жыл бұрын
MFW there's SINGLEPLAYER OFFLINE game going: "yup, I don't like that people can play our games without paying MORE. Let's Thanos' snap the game from their library!" I've heard of Steam deleting singleplayer offline games from people's libraries at the publishers will.
@sydalg95
Жыл бұрын
Good Riddance to these live service games.
@AtticaBlue1
Жыл бұрын
Heh, you didn’t get past the click-bait title, did you? As it turns out, Force makes the explicit point that LS games are NOT dying and will in fact continue to increase in frequency of release.
@Tyler_W
Жыл бұрын
Taking access to goods from people who paid to own that license is a major private property rights issue that demands to be addressed by the Supreme Court in America, and it's kinda sad that the fact that it hasn't probably comes down to the fact that the way things are now makes a lot of money in our territory, and they don't want to upset that apple cart and make people upset. Rarely do I appeal to what the rest of the world is doing because I usually think that a lot of what the rest of the world does is either stupid or authoritarian, but in this case, the rest ofnthe world is absolutely right on this matter. I don't see live-service games going anywhere either. I just think that what they look like in the future might change with evolving conditions due to various court rulings. Companies will just figure out how to do it differently, hopefully for the better. Personally, I mostly play single player games, story driven stuff, and occasionally a gake I can play with friends locally or online (not with random strangers), and when I do get games thaf have live-service elements, I only get the games that enable you to not engage with that part of the experience wothput penalizing the player for doing so, so this has very little impact on my playing habits. This is still very interesting discussion, though. As for preservation, we seriously need to put a greater focus on preserving gaming history, if not on consoles, at the very least on PCs. Future generations deserve to play the classics that defined the medium.
@XiLock_Alotx
Жыл бұрын
I hate to say this, but this video gives me positive vibes for the future.
@Marinealver
Жыл бұрын
The crash has to come to its conclusion first before it gets any better.
@pedroj3432
Жыл бұрын
Why would you "hate" to say that? Im confused
@cholohd32
Жыл бұрын
The saddest thing is that "games as a service" actually could work well in many cases if the publishers didnt always take the lazy cheapest route while being disturbingly manipulative .. and do it every time.
@Kant3n
Жыл бұрын
The very absence of an end-of-support fallback plan is precisely why Live Service has quickly gone down the reputational path of Online Passes and Loot Boxes, nobody is interested in throwing money into a black hole. There is an organizational cancer that has been eating away at this industry for years. A publisher can't release an annual slate of modestly successful games with an occasional blockbuster. *Every* game must have the mechanics in place to be a recurring money printer or it doesn't get made and who cares if we don't succeed, just cut losses and use that scant bit of income from the players that invested in our release to try it again.
@jusatin
Жыл бұрын
Just another reason why no one should ever spend any money on any f2p, or live service, game. If it’s free, great, use it for free. If it’s not free and you decide to support it, this will be happening to you and you are fine with it.
@nintenx1235
Жыл бұрын
So ATLUS only did so because a certain SMT server literally took their old SMT imagine site made basically 0 changes and used that as their homepage. Iirc they also had a paid model. They did not clarify that they were not affiliated with ATLUS.(the site was literally ATLUS's so it kinda said the opposite) ATLUS did tell them to stop using said site, but they didn't listen. The other fan servers did not receive cease and desists afaik but most still shut down because they were afraid of getting one.
@soraceant
Жыл бұрын
multiplayer games were a mistake.
@KevinoftheCosmos
Жыл бұрын
games-as-a-service was absolutely a mistake, there was nothing wrong with multiplayer games. Many defunct games are still run on private servers everywhere without any legal issues.
@Matt7R
Жыл бұрын
This whole situation really pisses me off, especially because I play Destiny 2 and they have literally deleted the base game and the first 3 expansions.
@justifano7046
Жыл бұрын
Meanwhile Destiny is nearing its 9th year.
@TheRealOAFs
Жыл бұрын
Destiny is nothing to brag about
@MEYH3M
Жыл бұрын
7th* Destiny died in 2017.
@Zectifin
Жыл бұрын
remember when back 4 blood was supposed to be a long term live service game, and it failed because it was bad and then they released a few DLC that nobody wanted, so they gave up and said that the "planned" development had finished and they were moving on?
@DanielDroegeShow
Жыл бұрын
Epic games gets a ton of crap but they refunded all the money I spent on Early Access for Paragon and skins and released the assets for the game for free in the marketplace so another studio could continue development. If I had to choose between playing 1-2 games a year that will eventually die rather than buy a $60 title every month that lives forever, bring on the circle of life. If it was music, you wouldn't be able to reproduce it during the artists' lifetime without their conscent.
@happycompy
Жыл бұрын
Wow. Good on epic for doing right by the consumer there.
@pittkyon
Жыл бұрын
Hey Force! Great content! I love the little acting you did in the beginning, that was quite unusual.
@mikfhan
Жыл бұрын
"This game requires an internet connection." This is what Good Old Games used to be about: "$crew that." We need secondary volunteer matchmaking/master servers. WoW used to require you buy the base game and expansions, so all those players would be entitled to a refund if WoW ever goes bust. Now it is just to avoid being 1 expansion behind.
@Superunknown190
Жыл бұрын
Hard disagree with your last point. GAAS are very expensive to make and expensive to maintain. Old republic was one of the most expensive games made at the time, it cost millions. If these service games keep turning into sunk costs, companies may think twice about sinking all that money and manpower into making an expensive game.
@cyd_hunter99
Жыл бұрын
1:38 "...the game has been shut down, it's servers offline" *shows Destiny 1, a game that is still online and whose servers still get maintenance despite not being old and not the devs focus*
@LM43243
Жыл бұрын
Ironacially the reason Ive stopped playing mmorpgs. Most of them shut down and poof, all your stuff and progress is gone, forever. Even worse are the sp games requiring sp games with mp requirements.
@llortduck
Жыл бұрын
Lineage closed its NA servers in 2011. Thousands of gameplay hours and several hundred dollars basically went down the drain.
@RexyRonin
Жыл бұрын
I think once corporations catch up to this, we will likely see a frequent influx of subscription-based live service games.
@RobStevens64
Жыл бұрын
Hellfire was the expansion for Diablo 1. (And it was an ‘unofficial’ expansion; Blizzard wasn’t responsible for it.) Lord of Destruction was the Diablo 2 expansion.
@runbaa9285
Жыл бұрын
Publishers don't understand that the live-service model itself is a risky venture and not a quick-cash scheme. And yet, they keep shoving devs into the model completely unprepared. A few Destiny and Apex Legends dev have said in the past how the live-service model is a brutal, long-term commitment that most dev teams are just not equipped to deal with. Off the top of my head, the only paid live-service PvE games that succeeded are Monster Hunter World and Hitman. And considering they're the only two lone successful examples out of an entire graveyard of failed PvE live service games, it's not a great look.
@AnythingForSouls
Жыл бұрын
when paragon shut down which was another moba run by epic games when they shut down the servers they refunded everyone who had bought cosmetics which is just a cool thing to do gotta respect it.
@ninochaosdrache3189
Жыл бұрын
They also released all assets for free to be used in fan projects.
@hoshi314
Жыл бұрын
i'll just say this right now : "I don't have a problem with games as service as a concept, it's just the execution that ultimately matters AKA the design of a specific game AKA Case by Case basis" Why can i say this with clear conscience? I have survived dead MMORPGs, dead mobile games, and dead multiplayer games that are the non-MMO kind. Hell even the current beloved games like FF14 will one day die and the question is whether it goes out with a bang or with a whimper. However if we are talking about games preservation then that is a different issue entirely. The current situation just forced buyers to be more aware if not putting many things into scrutiny before they buy.
@SethOmegaful
Жыл бұрын
Ugh, I have no words to describe the disgust I feel when I see stuff like those mentioned in the video.
@UniDeathRaven
Жыл бұрын
Majority of service games lack serious quality. Most of them suck balls. If all service games were just as good as Destiny, they would be alive for decades.
@TheRealOAFs
Жыл бұрын
Destiny is one of the biggest scam games of all time
@UniDeathRaven
Жыл бұрын
@@TheRealOAFs Sure brah, its top highest quality online game after World Of Warcraft ofc.
@billylee322
Жыл бұрын
In the 90s a lot of games got expansion packs, which unlike dlc was almost doubling the content, that would patch the original game
@zid9611
Жыл бұрын
I've this said this before. We should basically have a universal database for programs that go on sale. All programs this includes games. The rules are basically be if a company or person that created it. Sells it but take it down for sell. Then after say set time of time say a year or 2. The program because public domain and anyone can freely use it for non commercial means. There could be exceptions for security reasons or something like that. This would also help stop copyright/patent trolls in tech as well.
@SergioPower21
Жыл бұрын
Wait YOU WERE THE GUY IN THE SUIT all along!?!?!?
@orangeapples
Жыл бұрын
Games as a service fails because they’re focusing too much on the service part and less on the game part. They actively make games worse to encourage you to spend that first dollar. Fun may be just over this wall. You won’t know until you get there and that could be anywhere between $5 and 10 years.
@mind-of-neo
Жыл бұрын
Abolish copyright law and DRM and create media preservation laws requiring companies to preserve their media and not remove it from the internet. Singleplayer live service games ought be disallowed, as the only reason for them to be only accessible online is access control. All multiplayer live service games should have a working copy of them created that can be played alone or via private server after INEVITABLE end of service. It should be ILLEGAL for game publisbers to have agreements stating "this game is licensed not sold to you and can be revoked at any time".
@Mightydoggo
Жыл бұрын
Reminds me on the angry birds game they pulled from the store, because it was tanking on the potential money the other games made. Life service games *can* work, but the more greedy a company gets, the faster the game will die. People play games for having fun, not to get misused as cashcows by random megalomaniac CEOs.
@MasterJazz09
Жыл бұрын
A game having planned post content does not mean it’s a live service
@knowledgegaming8437
Жыл бұрын
Your not buying the game. Your just renting it for a long time. This is true for any online game. It's just a matter of time before it dies. Just remember that before dropping a lot of money in the game.
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