The junction near Stafford is Colwich, not Colton, which is south of York.
@NetworkNewsUK
Күн бұрын
Well spotted, clearly a slip of the tongue on my part!
@mr.afrikaans1747
Сағат бұрын
@@NetworkNewsUKyou need to shutdown your channel now… it’s the only way to redeem yourself! 😂
@Hahlen
Күн бұрын
Spending more money to build something worse would be very on-brand for Britain
@markiliff
23 сағат бұрын
Yep. There's never the money to do things right but always the money to keep sick assets in intensive care forever
@heinkle1
2 сағат бұрын
@@markiliffit’s a great recipe for structural decline
@jonathanfreyone526
Күн бұрын
Scrapping the European loading gauge is ludicrous, makes more sense to leave it even if the trains are going to be slightly slower but achieve the same traveling capacity.
@TheHoveHeretic
Күн бұрын
Absolutely agree. Abandoning slab track is another retrograde step. Why are UK decision makers incapable of learning from the catalogue of idiotic missteps which have plagued the British rail network since Day One?
@chrislyon7147
23 сағат бұрын
@@TheHoveHeretic It is becoming apparent that many of these decisions are mode for short term financial manipulations rather than the stated objective of providing utility.
@peterwilliamallen1063
22 сағат бұрын
Where in the plans of HS2 has it ever been mentioned officialy that the line was going to be built to UIC Gauge or Berne Gauge, I have watched every officail vidio put out by HS2ltd and there has never ever been a mention of, it has always been said that it is being built to the UK loading gauge because no European train will run on HS2, no train service from HS2 will travel to Europe and if HS" trains were built to UIC size they would not be possible to operate on the WCML to Liverpool and Scotland. It is a case of Chinese whispers where by some one in the past mentioned something and now people think it was going to happen. In the UK we do not require our loading gauge built to UIC standards, all it means is slightly wider bodied and higher coaches. So no the UIC Gauge on HS2 was not scrapped but never enversaged to have been the case.
@peterwilliamallen1063
22 сағат бұрын
@@TheHoveHeretic Slab track is never used exept in tunnels, to cosly to fit all along the line and difficult to maintain, when ordinary concrete or steel sleeper rails when are reqired to be replaced are just lifted out in situ and replaced in a couple of hours.
@AnUntitledPicture
19 сағат бұрын
All about the short term, not thinking of long term :/
@eldrago19
Күн бұрын
The longer we put off developing a high speed rail network, the longer it will be before those benefits start to accrue.
@vinniechan
23 сағат бұрын
To be honest I'm very sceptical we could ever recoup the cost of a high speed rail At least it needs to be a UK wide network that includes Scotland otherwise the scale is just not worth it
@nade5557
23 сағат бұрын
@@vinniechan That's exactly the thinking that got us here. Building infrastructure for perceived immediate profit instead of for it's actual purpose. The benefit to GDP from various factors will be significant outside of raw operating profits. But I wholeheartedly agree about integrating Scotland in. The entirety of the UK is sorely lacking competent high speed rail
@MrMakeDo
22 сағат бұрын
Genius!
@lostcarpark
21 сағат бұрын
I could accept limiting speed to 300kmh and ballasted track, but building to UK loading gauge would be a massive wasted opportunity. Being able to run high capacity double decker trains from Manchester at some future date would be a game changer.
@nomadcarpenter8549
16 сағат бұрын
Yeah that seems like a massive own goal that couldn't be easily undone.
@eldrago19
Күн бұрын
In an era where our rail network is already painfully prone to extreme weather, and when climate change means that is only going to get worse, building ballasted tracks as opposed to slab tracks is sheer madness.
@jgcondron
13 сағат бұрын
Voiding on slab tracks is difficult to fix.
@barvdw
8 сағат бұрын
The Dutch, who built their HSL Zuid, might disagree. Because it's so sturdy, it's also a lot harder to correct mistakes, and they have made some engineering mistakes which have lead to speed reductions on key parts of the line, from 300 km/h to at one place 80... Chances are, they will have to rebuild from the ground up. That said, the main reason is their terrible soil, the track has shifted 8 cm at that spot, that's the reason for the speed restriction.
@josephharrison8354
Күн бұрын
Of course, the main reason why it's silly to recommend British loading gauge is that before too long, the equipment and expertise being used to construct Phase One will be freed up. What kind of sense does it make to commit to plans which would lead to - for example - the TBMs being useless?
@MancAlB
23 сағат бұрын
One of the only policy decisions that makes me feel physically angry. Such short-sightedness is unbelievable, and the level of ignorance displayed by central government to transport anywhere north of Watford is simply staggering. We need to build these lines, and soon, or the UK will fall even further behind our European neighbours
@barvdw
8 сағат бұрын
Not just north of Watford, reducing HS2 to OOC is absolute madness, it's like amputating your thumb, you loose half of your dexterity.
@Beni10PT
23 сағат бұрын
People do not understand the benefits of making something right the first time, specially on nationalwide infrastructure that is going to be used in the future
@nicolasblume1046
Күн бұрын
This proposal would be far worse than the original Hs2 proposal.
@JSmith19858
17 сағат бұрын
Fairly typical for Britian over the past century. Start out with a good idea. Try and cut corners and fudge bits to save money. Those cut corners then end up costing you more down the line so the project has to be scaled back to stop costs spiraling. You then end up with a worse end result that costs more than just doing it correctly in the first place
@EisenbahnenBw
16 сағат бұрын
Nonetheless it would be highspeed rail against no highspeed rail
@nicolasblume1046
13 сағат бұрын
@@EisenbahnenBw it would be better to just continue the hs2 Services on the existing network towards the north (as planned) and safegard the northern extension of hs2 to build it later
@barvdw
8 сағат бұрын
@@nicolasblume1046 how long can those safeguards stay in place? I'm not British, so I'm sure it differs, but in Belgium, all planning permits and permits for eminent domain are time-sensitive, if you don't start building, you might have to redo the whole planning permission procedure again. That would be an argument for building _something_.
@qjtvaddict
4 сағат бұрын
@@JSmith19858they never recovered from WW2 😅😅😅😅
@HandiTransport
18 сағат бұрын
To block the possibility of running European guage trains is plain stupid. This means that the UK would be blocked from buying off the shelf high speed trains from the big European manufacturers and even blocked from buying secondhand trainsets. The cost savings aren't worth it. That said any savings from running at a slightly slower speed (300kph) are probably worth it as the short route probably has only a short distance able to be run at the higher speeds and the associated time saving probably doesn't justify the extra energy usage.
@barvdw
8 сағат бұрын
Agreed, especially as even those lines where there's a theoretical maximum speed of over 300, the commercial speed is generally limited to 300, as the extra operating cost is hardly worth it. That operating cost goes up exponentially... 300 to 320 seems to be the sweet spot.
@Rick2009h
Күн бұрын
Clearest explanation I’ve seen on this topic.
@Carlos-im3hn
Күн бұрын
Great overview and current status of HS2 and NPR, with many details. Thank you .
@NetworkNewsUK
Күн бұрын
Thank you! I put quite a lot of effort into this video so it means a lot!
@universaltrainsstudio8534
Күн бұрын
This is an amazing overview of HS2 along with the current news with amazing graphics! Well done and thank you so much! 😁👍🏻
@iwfgb
Күн бұрын
First time I have watched one of your videos and I thought it was excellent - clear, precise, very well presented, no unnecessary music etc., and intelligent. Very well done.
@NetworkNewsUK
Күн бұрын
Thank you, glad you enjoyed!
@BedeTeeton
Күн бұрын
Construction really should have started in Leeds, there would be an immediate re-invigoration of northern industries
@NetworkNewsUK
Күн бұрын
Construction started on phase 1 first, as the southern section of the WCML is the area that was predicted to reach capacity the soonest. However politically it would have been a lot harder to cancel if they'd started building the Northern legs first, so I don't disagree with your assessment.
@peterwilliamallen1063
21 сағат бұрын
Oh give it a rest, for what reason should HS2 have started in Leeds of all places, the soul purpose of HS2 is to relieve congestion on the West Coast Mainline from Crewe to London Euston via Birmingham allowing more capacity for freight services on the busy winding southern section of the WCML from Crewe to Euston via the Trent Valley route and speed up WCML Inter City Trains.
@verygoodbrother
18 сағат бұрын
@@peterwilliamallen1063 It should have started on both ends
@peterwilliamallen1063
16 сағат бұрын
@@verygoodbrother It has, it is being constructed from Birmingham North to Lichfield and Manchester and South towards London and from London North and in between, it was the last Government that stopped it being built from Manchester
@verygoodbrother
15 сағат бұрын
@@peterwilliamallen1063 Hopefully it restarts
@TheMrChugger
Күн бұрын
We're such a joke country at times man...
@TheFrogfather1
Күн бұрын
The proposal to build to UK guage is imho very short sighted.
@bfapple
Күн бұрын
It’s not a decision, just a recommendation. Bear in mind that the report was prepared by a consultancy who firstly wants to get “a boot in the door”.
@TheFrogfather1
Күн бұрын
@@bfapple Sorry, wrong choice of words - I know it's a recommendation. I hope it's not followed!
@TheHoveHeretic
Күн бұрын
@@TheFrogfather1For a second there, I thought 'short sighted' was the intended poor choice of words. I was thinking of something rhyming with "rodding meticulous"!
@philjameson292
22 сағат бұрын
Even if the EU loading gauge north of Birmingham was used, it means that HS2 trains can only run to Liverpool and Manchester but not anywhere further north As far as I am aware under the original HS2 then UK spec trains would have to be used for London Glasgow routes, even if they used HS2 tracks up to Birmingham or Manchester etc
@peterwilliamallen1063
22 сағат бұрын
There were never any plans to use the UIC European loading gauge other wise HS2 trains would not be able to go to Liverpool, Manchester or Scotland as they would of been out of Gauge for the existing UK rail network no mention other than building to the UK loading gauge is mentioned in HS2 ltd Video's plus why do trains ned to be built to the European loading gauge when these trains are not planned to go into Europe.
@seanmoulton4793
20 сағат бұрын
The lack of plan of solving the capacity issue in Crewe is always going to be an issue. A new Platform 13 is needed for Manchester - South Wales services to ensure trains don't have to cross each line. Dual tracking between Crewe and Alsager, and electifying between Crewe and Chester is needed - but Crewe station as a whole needs serving in order to boost connectivity to the regions and not just to cities
@laurencegale2763
Күн бұрын
Meanwhile in Devon, the nearest electrified rail is 60 miles away....
@johnharrison6808
23 сағат бұрын
I've been in Devon, I've seen the paved tracks you call roads, investment in railways is the least of your problems.
@jack2453
23 сағат бұрын
Maybe about time that the UK took the lead from other small countries like Switzerland and Netherlands... capacity, feequency and quality are more important than speed for its own sake.
@Graviton1066
19 сағат бұрын
Such a stupid "solution" to Sunak's insane cancellation.
@jack2453
23 сағат бұрын
The loading gauge issue is important. The other stuff is just shedding the gold plating that got HS2 cancelled in the first place. Time to let go.
@YinandYangandGreen
22 сағат бұрын
Extend HS2 to all major Midland cities and further to Glasgow and Edinburgh. This rail infrastructure will have a life of well over 100 years and will cost less now than later. Britain may also become more forward thinking and positive as a result. Less gold plating of the infrastructure design and build while still attaining 350 km/h speeds should be possible.
@Deepthought-42
21 сағат бұрын
They should have started HS2 at Leeds and Manchester and headed north to Scotland and then south to Birmingham and not bothered paying off the Chiltern nimbies.
@antonycole7761
19 сағат бұрын
i like the sound of most of this, but i think we should still use the Europe load gauge and the concert slab rail; looking at whole life cost
@nevreiha
Күн бұрын
when can we as a country choose to splash out on one thing to futureproof it - just once, instead of cutting absolutely everything. Are we not an important location for business, banking and a couple of other sectors? Where is the money?
@markiliff
23 сағат бұрын
_important location for business, banking and a couple of other sectors_ We voted to end that in 2016
@nade5557
23 сағат бұрын
@@markiliff this guy gets it
@nevreiha
16 сағат бұрын
@@markiliff without a doubt, but please let me have my delusion
@markiliff
14 сағат бұрын
@@nevreiha :-]
@aoilpe
23 сағат бұрын
I tend to agree with the SNCF that speeds above 350 km/h- 218 mph are no longer economic because of the electrical consumption of the trains…
@NetworkNewsUK
23 сағат бұрын
I don't think the plan was to run at that speed regularly. From my understanding, HS2 trains would run at 320/330km/h in normal service, and would only speed up to 360km/h if they're running late and need to make up time
@damiendye6623
15 сағат бұрын
@@NetworkNewsUK you mean like the pendos being cable of 140mph but never have
@NetworkNewsUK
Сағат бұрын
@@damiendye6623 it's similar to that, but the pendolinos don't run above 125MPH because the signalling system *physically won't allow them to*. HS2 trains will be capable of the 360km/h speed, and unlike pendolinos probably will reach it in service, it just won't be done regularly from my understanding.
@dominiccottrill2387
23 сағат бұрын
I argued many times that this review was simply a political trick to throw sand into Sunak's gears and buy time to stop him selling the HS2 land before he get's booted from office. Obviously HS2 should be built as designed. It's good to go, and spades could hit the ground tomorrow. With Sunak gone, the only problem left is to change Starmer's mind.
@nade5557
23 сағат бұрын
Absolutely. Once again it simply comes down to appalling politicians
@matthewturnock8725
22 сағат бұрын
I may be mistaken but didn't Sunak already sell off a lot of the land bought up to construct HS2 phase 2 at bargain bin prices? Which would mean that land would need to be bought up again to be built on, adding even more delays and cost to the project. Of course imo Labour should absolutely just get on with it and get the ball rolling again, but I don't think it's quite as easy as spades on the ground once Starmer decides it's go time
@dominiccottrill2387
22 сағат бұрын
@matthewturnock8725 I think not. He tried to but he was stopped. I could be wrong.
@dominiccottrill2387
22 сағат бұрын
@@matthewturnock8725The design is locked in and finalised. It just needs parliament to pass it.
@kenwilkins8237
19 сағат бұрын
Hi the other problem might be that the country is broke financially, and in other ways.
@Harve6988
17 сағат бұрын
Just reinstate the second leg of Hs2. Alternative proposals are a waste of time, and will take years and years of parliamentary nonsense.
@davidwilliams5942
23 сағат бұрын
The trouble is everything is London centric they should have stated at Crewe and headed south to London it would not have been cancelled then
@NetworkNewsUK
23 сағат бұрын
The southern section was prioritised as that's the section of the WCML which was expected to reach capacity the soonest. However, it would have been politically more challenging to cancel if they'd started with the Northern sections!
@davidwilliams5942
23 сағат бұрын
@@NetworkNewsUK London is a monster that gobbuls up all the money and then still wants more
@peterwilliamallen1063
21 сағат бұрын
HS2 is like any large construction like a Motorway, they never start in one place, if you ever came to look at HS2 construction, no Stations other than London OOC are being constructed at the moment, the builders are constructing all the tunnels, viaducts, bridges and track formation from Birmingham going North to Handsacre and South to London and from London progressing North and in between, so no they are not starting in one place, it is not London Centric as the HQ of HS2 ltd the people building HS2 is in Birmingham City Centre not London and if it had of been started in Manchester it would not of been as far constructed as it is now.
@teafanatic8452
Күн бұрын
auto shenanigans mentioned! great vid man!
@andrewwatson5324
17 сағат бұрын
If hs2 can't be resurrected as intended, at least keep the Loading gauge to allow trains to go further north, the track can always be upgraded later.
@allyspeedruns
13 сағат бұрын
One of the main concerns Andy Burnham had with HS2 being scrapped is that the capacity was mostly wanted, not necessarily the higher speeds. I still think we shouldn't settle for any BS downgrades. The country invented rail. Why can't we act like it? It's pathetic. Tax the billionaires, give them the ultimatum to pay their fair share or leave the UK with their businesses. Then we'd see some proper infrastructure.
@8492946able
Күн бұрын
HS2 must be fully built Both eastern and western legs must be built NPR must be fully built
@wilsonfamily1762
2 сағат бұрын
fantastic and clear analysis 👍
@bobbster504
12 сағат бұрын
German here: Building a high speed railway on ballasted tracks is an absolute no-go! The airstream of high speed trains cause stones to blow up, which could result in severe damages. I think the approach with lower speeds is not that bad. The stations are relative close to each other, so it might be more (cost and energy) efficient to travel at a lower speeds (250 km/h or less like in some areas in Germany) than accelerating and decelerating again. Also lower speed only make sense if they lower the cost by avoiding some tunnels and bridges because the route doesn't have to be that straight anymore.
@barvdw
8 сағат бұрын
And yet, the Belgians did it, the French as well... There are drawbacks, but it does work. That said, ICE is limited to 250 in Belgium because of their more aerodynamic form where Eurostars can run up to 300 because of the reason you mentioned, but of all the cost-saving measures, it's one I can get behind.
@exercept-mn7sw
7 сағат бұрын
Roughly half the "high speed" railways in Germany, in pure kilometres of track built and upgraded, are 200kph (i.e. the same 125 Mph max speed already found on much of the ECML and for pendolinos on the WCML, indeed for any trains on subsections thereof). Slabbed track also involves extra expertise and equipment per metre of rail, in particular for dampeners. Ballasted track also might work comparatively better in wetter climates, though research is still somewhat inconclusive. But the advantages of slabbed track diminish with reduced max speed, research suggests. I think lowering max speed to 300kph while keeping the land acquisition for 360kph geometries, and using a mix of ballasted track and slabbed track in more troublesome places like where high-speed points are located, would be a real cost saving. But the loading gauge shouldn't change.
@Clickworker101
Күн бұрын
At least build the leg to Manchester
@normhanson981
Күн бұрын
Wonderful , detailed video , better than the bbc panorama program. Thanks.
@NetworkNewsUK
Күн бұрын
Thank you very much! I confess I haven't watched the BBC programme yet, but I've heard it's pretty one-sided and relies on a lot of misguided or outright untrue information!
@damiendye6623
14 сағат бұрын
@@NetworkNewsUK not quite it shows what really happens in government and the DfT about lies. It also shows how much the nimbies added to the overall cost.
@UK.RoadsCyclingandTransport
Күн бұрын
You've gained a new subscriber, very clear video thank you
@TheHoveHeretic
Күн бұрын
Two, actually! 🙂
@NetworkNewsUK
Күн бұрын
Thank you very much 🙏 To be honest I'm blown away by the response this video's received, as I seem to have gained ~100 subscribers overnight which is absolutely insane and far more than I've ever got from a single video before (either here or on my main channel)
@ljones5
26 минут бұрын
Found my new favourite KZitem channel
@TootlinGeoff
14 сағат бұрын
We're still not getting the Eastern link. It's needed just as much.
@dernwine
14 сағат бұрын
Going for UK loading gauge is inane. It's hamstrings any future developments from HS1 and 2.
17 сағат бұрын
Don't be confused between commercial speed and maximum speed. Most of europe high speed tracks have a commercial speed of 300-320 kph but their max speed can reach 360 kph.
@DrMJT
22 сағат бұрын
Build without the Key segments to interlace with WCML... and people will be socially nudged to demand it. :) Ballast NO. Changing tunnel dynamics... such as making the bore holes smaller... WTF?? The Cost to TBM a 7m bore is same as a 17m bore... it is just a larger cutting face on the TBM. The extra concrete (made with reuse of spoil) is insignificant cost-wise. IF a PPP is the way to build, use it to build. The PPP can always be purchased out later or a bankrupted lender to become a freebie. This is a PR Social Nudge... an introducing the idea/concept into the minds of the Public. Now it is out in the public domain, it will be easier to get people and this 'lack of vision' government into motivation gear. Yes vastly disappointed as this is the first labour govt in the past 100 years who LACKED a Vision, Direction, a Destination for Socio-economic future in legislative objectives.
@jonathanfreyone526
Күн бұрын
They seem to have left out the Euston connection, that doesn’t make sense.
@NetworkNewsUK
Күн бұрын
Because the plans were never formally "dropped", the government just pulled the funding for it (this is why I showed it as grey on the map rather than deleting it entirely). It is still the intention to proceed with Euston, but we'll just have to see whether the new government is able to find the money (either directly, or with the help of the private sector)
@jonathanfreyone526
Күн бұрын
Another thing is that by reducing the load gauge and subsequently reducing the diameter of the tunnels, you wouldn’t be able to reuse the Tunnel boring machines and tunnel lining factories used at the HS2 sites. The infrastructure used to manufacturing them could not be reused, the whole point is to standardize the infrastructure throughout the railway lines. What they should really focus on is standardizing all the viaducts and bridges to cut down costs. There’s way too many variants of them along the HS2 routes. This is an engineering project t not an architectural project.
@mikehindson-evans159
21 сағат бұрын
Thank you for a masterpiece of story-telling and factual analysis. The "new" line will now be Sensible, pragmatic - and permanently gauge-crippled in terms of the kit that can run on the "Connector" tracks. At least the future-needs "Crewe Dive-under Tunnel" can be planned for a future generation, when the "Stafford Bottleneck" has moved north to "The Crewe Bottleneck": I reckon this bottleneck will move northwards at a planning rate of one mile per year - role on 2054! So - welcome to "Grate Britain" where we argue forever and deliver not a lot. Meanwhile, the M6 and WCML are STILL stuffed full! Whilst the population of the UK grows by 800,000 bodies per year...
@andyyu5957
17 сағат бұрын
Why do trains *need* to travel so fast? If I was a business traveller, I am good as long as the train travels faster than the motorway speed limit, and as long as there is a good wifi connection. Resistance is proportional to v², so doubling the speed quadruples the power required. Remember that electricity is not getting cheaper (no more cheap gas imports).
@barvdw
8 сағат бұрын
To compete with flights, because the extra cost is rather minimal, and because faster travel times also mean faster turnovers for both staff and rolling stock. Now, I'm not convinced about +300 speeds, I think 300-320 is the sweet spot, even on lines with a theoretical higher speed, this seems the most common commercial speed, as you pointed out, the operational energy cost goes up exponentially. Also, don't forget that most trains have intermediate stops which eat away travel time, you need to compensate for that as well. I expect electricity to not get much more expensive, as it can be produced domestically relatively cheaply, with wind farms, solar panels, hydro, and even nuclear, once the plant is operational, that is. If it goes up, it will be because of higher demand, not the need for costly gas or oil import.
@lizh-d5266
Сағат бұрын
There was an appetite for developing Cross rail through London, with great and costly measures taken to tunnel around existing structures and already functioning services, but as soon as it’s outside London, it all goes away. Whoever has, to him shall be given….but whoever has not, from him shall be taken away even that that he has.
@EarlofSalop
3 сағат бұрын
I’m excited for the HS2 tickets to be astronomical in price
@jammiedodger7040
11 сағат бұрын
The railway network needs to be built to the scale of 1960.
@BlackcloudRailways
43 минут бұрын
Having trains with continental loading gauge means they cannot run beyond the new lines, across the Pennines or northwards to Preston and beyond. Passengers wishing to travel abroad can change trains at Birmingham. It's hardly difficult. As for the extra speed, set off earlier if you want to get there sooner. The whole point of HS2, NPR and this Midlands/NW link is to relieve congestion on the existing rail network, speed is a secondary consideration.
@J0hn029
15 сағат бұрын
Agree with most of the comments. You're all sensible. For an addition, I would recommend a link from the bham flying junction to the MML towards Tamworth and derby. Electrify and upgrade MML to Sheffield, Nottingham, x country etc
@NetworkNewsUK
15 сағат бұрын
Hopefully something like this gets considered because it would be an immense waste of the flying junction not to do something with it! Could also significantly reduce the journey time to Sheffield and provide some capacity relief to the southern section of the MML even if not as much as would have been provided under the original HS2 scheme.
@SilverScroll
Күн бұрын
It is incredible how short-sighted the plan is if examined with even the slightest bit of scrutiny compared to the original plans. One can only hope some of the more nonsensical "cost savings" will be rolled back upon further examination.
@NetworkNewsUK
Күн бұрын
Like I say, this plan doesn't seem to be based on any engineering reality, but rather is a political tool to try and get the line built.
@chrislyon7147
23 сағат бұрын
The gauge issue is a big mistake. But quite why we,as a nation need to have a faster service that what appears to be a standard elsewhere in Europe. Please tell me this isn't simply national chest inflating?
@NetworkNewsUK
22 сағат бұрын
The reason a lot of European high speed lines are slower is simply because they're older. Most modern high speed lines are built to a higher speed simply because it makes sense to do so that the line is futureproofed. In the case of HS2, it was the alignment which dictated the speed rather than the other way round. Once the planners had decided on an alignment which minimised impact on the environment and surrounding villages, it just happened to be very straight, allowing for higher speeds!
@MrBubba59
Сағат бұрын
It will probably end up a diesel railway limited to 125mph. The UK doesn't seem to be able to afford electrification anywhere else and electricity for traction is made to be so expensive that the freight companies have to revert to using sluggish sheds.
@mentallysensible
13 сағат бұрын
I get the impression that the critical flaw with this plan is that it follows the logic of HS2 itself, which in itself seemed critically flawed. The design seems to work on the principle of there being three places that need a line drawing between them (London Euston, Birmingham and Manchester). The middle area is network is neglected, leaving the second class cities/towns in the middle (Stoke, Coventry, Wolverhampton on the West Coast, and before cancellation Nottingham, Leicester, Derby, Doncaster, Wakefield on the Eastern leg) without direct connections into the "system". It also completely ignores the potential for through services that aren't going to finish on the High Speed Network, but could still prospectively gain something from journey time savings of using short - medium lengths of High Speed track (eg. Cross Country services - if they were to use the HS2/this proposal, they'd hit Curzon Street and not be able to go onward to their current end points - at most they can go Manchester to Crewe at which point they have to use the slower track options and the same was true before the Eastern Leg was cancelled - they'd just have to use the existing network and aren't considered in the plan). Really the targets of any plan should be: * Existing stations on the WCML should see no reduction in service frequency or the journey time of services to either Manchester, Birmingham, London Euston or locations North of Manchester. Without intermediate connections allowing High Speed trains to stop at intermediate places on their way up/down, it seems to become less viable for these stations to receive as many London/Manchester/Birmingham services - classical services running on the old track become immediately uncompetitive/make less sense, and places that currently get a service by being conveniently positioned on the WCML and being key stops by virtue of them being reasonably populous and "in the way so we might as well stop there" essentially risk becoming disconnected. * High Speed rail should serve as many current secondary stops; ie. locations served by Avanti at current, so Stoke, Macclesfield, Crewe, Stafford, Stockport; as possible, so as to spread the benefit as widely as possible (links to the previous point). This is probably a natural consequence of the previous requirement. If Stoke, as an example, was on the High Speed tracks, it could have the same or more frequent service than it has at current, and have these services be significantly faster. The space between Manchester and Birmingham is not a void that only contains Crewe and other cities and towns deserve to reap the benefits of improved connectivity as much as is possible. Perhaps in some cases needing it more so than locations that are more independently prosperous like Manchester. Not saying that Stockport, as an example, needs to be directly on the tracks, but there certainly should be an exit/entrance point for services to do things like Manchester >[Existing Tracks]> Stockport >[High Speed Tracks]> London Euston or Manchester >[High Speed Tracks]> Crewe >[Existing Tracks]> Stafford >[Existing Tracks]> Birmingham >[High Speed Tracks]> London Euston * All existing long distance journeys that go between Manchester, Birmingham and London should be able to take advantage of higher track speeds to reduce journey times, not a limited subset that are specifically going from Manchester to Birmingham without going on to another destination so as to extend the connectivity advantage further afield. Thinking of CrossCountry services mainly here, this would allow the South West and Bristol to have some benefit of improved connections to Manchester and the North thereof, spreading the benefit wider than just Birmingham, Manchester and London). Curzon Street needs to have through platforms connecting to lines South of Birmingham or there needs to be an exit point that allows Cross Country trains (presumably ones which can run at the higher line speeds) to use New Street and High Speed tracks. Also thinking of the current Avanti services that go via New Street and then continue northwards (eg. Glasgow, Edinburgh, Blackpool North) which could not be delivered as through services and then become far slower and/or less viable than their counterparts that can zip up bypassing Birmingham and/or continue to Euston on High Speed Track - Curzon Street's status as a terminus makes these services impossible to deliver as through services using the network South or North of Birmingham. Of course with just the Manchester and Birmingham Metro Mayors involved in this, everywhere else is likely to be ignored. And likely to their detriment.
@bright-side-news
Сағат бұрын
Great video mate
@joegrey9807
14 сағат бұрын
I would think that if/once it's been approved then various aspects would be revised. "Having worked through the proposals in more detail we can construct to the European loading gauge at comparable costs, but with long term savings of having double deck trains with lower weight per passenger,..." Or something like that. The other points - how difficult would it be to rebuild using slab track, and what physical characteristics were being planned that will reduce the top speed, and can this be reversed later on? Avoiding the tunnel at Crewe, and PPP are less worrisome
@57bananaman
13 сағат бұрын
Good, informative video but I think that the notion that people going to "Central London" won't be happy if the line doesn't terminate at Euston is totally overblown, Euston Station isn't really in "Central London", it's on its northern fringe. The new HS2 station at Old Oak Common will have a direct connection to The Elizabeth Line which actually DOES go through "Central London" so anyone heading down from Birmingham etc. wanting to go to Oxford Street, Holborn or The City would change at Old Oak Common irrespective of whether the line continued to Euston, as would those heading to Heathrow Airport, Canary Wharf, Stratford or anywhere else along the Elizabeth Line or the lines it connects with. Old Oak Common is also very close to The Central Line and the Bakerloo Line and Overground at Willesden Junction. Not going through to Euston isn't ideal but it is by no means as bad as some make out.
@davidwatson8292
44 минут бұрын
Changing the plans will cause huge delays and higher costs. Just build it as it was originally designed
@RalphFreeman-ok5of
23 сағат бұрын
Sounds like a typical "British Solution" we set out to design a cheetah and end up with a camel. Most of the proposals to save money result in a second class railway. Short term gains with long term consequences. P.S What is it obsession with top speed? If it takes 15 mins less to get to Manchester what do the passengers do with that 15 minutes that is so important? The HS125 proved a resounding success so a top speed of say 150 or 175 would be adequate IMO.
@nade5557
22 сағат бұрын
The obsession with top speed is it's comparison to current rail networks, e.g. HS2 is expected to cut ~30 minutes off a journey from London to Birmingham for example. Which would be ~ 1 hr 30 min rather than 2 hr. Not a particularly large change. The more time saved on journeys, the more sense it makes, including just 15 mins. 1 hr 15 mins starts to seem significant compared to 2 hr using the aforementioned example
@mikehindson-evans159
21 сағат бұрын
I am firmly of the view - and always have been - that the need is for capacity on Britain's railway network. Higher speed is a bonus and kills off internal air services - which is what the Greenie Nimby crew seem to want.
@robertelkins5928
17 сағат бұрын
Do you really not understand the link between speed and capacity? The number of trains able to run on the line at once is determined by the speed of the trains and the length of the line. Quicker line speeds increase the capacity of the line to a point. But the higher speeds also reduce journey times, meaning an individual train can carry more passengers when viewed over a longer timescale. Think of it like this; train A takes an hour to travel from London to Birmingham, and train B takes 30 minutes. This means in the time it takes train A to travel from London to Birmingham, train B has travelled from London to Birmingham and back to London again, and thus has doubled the capacity just using a higher line speed. It's not rocket surgery
@Da_Big_G
12 сағат бұрын
It is debatable if a European loading gauge would ever be useful, since the HS1-HS2 link was cancelled at an early stage, meaning there will be a gap of under a mile stopping European-gauge links to Europe.
@exercept-mn7sw
7 сағат бұрын
The land acquisition part and planning geometries are one of the first things to be decided and it's best to stick to what phase 1 has been designed to, even just for fleet commonality reasons. With the move to ETCS signalling, it will be easier than ever to get the best value rolling stock from around the world on the better loading gauge. Also the double-deck trainsets as used in NA and continental Europe would be a low-cost, high-gain benefit for passenger capacity.
@user-zh9kc7tw4n
Сағат бұрын
Why build a smaller railway tunnels and bridges is just insane.
@soj_89
15 сағат бұрын
The British loading gauge bit is the only bit which I think ruins the proposal. Other than that, it's just a slightly slowed down HS2 phase 2
@plantsmgee
18 сағат бұрын
wouldnty it be amazing to get the train to paris, or berlin. or link with the other parts of the uk like gibraltar?
@johnharrison6808
22 сағат бұрын
Other than loading gauge, seens like the best made of a bad position.
@johnburns4017
14 сағат бұрын
Manchester, or its metro area does not necessitate scarce funds for only that region, which is also currently well served, while others are ignored. Manchester is no second tier city like Munich, Chicago, Milan, Barcelona, etc. HMG is not that daft to do such a politically suicidal thing despite the issuing of the none-HMG/DfT Burnham/Higgins comic book. It is very nice here on terra firma, come down. All we need is: *1)* a Stafford bypass, *2)* upgrading the more direct Stoke-Manchester line, keeping Mcr trains off the WCML entirely. Stoke also benefit, *3)* reuse the nine mile Macclesfield-Marple line to add capacity bypassing Stockport, *4)* have direct/express to Liverpool & Mcr, 300m trains, *5)* Make WCML 4-track from Crewe to Weaver junction. What is not to like?
@jonathanwilliams9697
20 сағат бұрын
For the amount already spent on HS2, they should just build it in full. What difference does an extra 50 billion make when you've already spent 100 billion?
@qjtvaddict
4 сағат бұрын
Replace phase 2b with maglev and send it to Scotland but send the southern portion of the new maglev to Bristol and maybe Plymouth too now those cities are linked to the overall HSR network
@REDARROW_A_Personal
8 сағат бұрын
My view of this that HS2 could have been viewed as a strategic asset, because if need to we could use it to transport military hardware such as tanks and armoured vehicles. Something we haven't done due to the Challenger Tanks being larger than the UK loading gauge. This could be paid for by the defence budget in part. If we did this we could move forward in the long run establishing new defence industry along the route.
@NetworkNewsUK
21 минут бұрын
Well that's an interesting take that I've never heard before!
@JamesBrown-zu8iv
22 сағат бұрын
Most use single-deck will use as many they will. The only does one concerns; is require less 5,000m Height with on rail track of the train, additionally will few or some use new Double-decker trains [not re-use BR class 4DD] on primary few routes if possible (not many though as rural branches)?
@peterwilliamallen1063
21 сағат бұрын
People keep going on about why has HS2 not been built to the UIC gauge ( Berne European Gauge) because there is no requirement for it as no European train services will travel past London for a number of reason's first being the cost and time of catching a train from Birmingham/ Manchester to Paris/ Brussels, in both cases it is cheper and quicker to fly these routes from both Birmingham and Manchester Airports and the argument of time when you get to France of the difference of arriving in Paris Central by Train or Charles Degaul Airport by Plane is out weighed by the quick flight but the fact the businesses are not always in the Centre's of Paris or Brussels so whether you arrive in Paris/ Brussels City Centre by Train or Charles De Gaul Airport as per France by Plane you still require transportation to your place of Business in the outskirts of Paris, the next problem is that trains that use the channel tunnel are desighned with special safety precaustions so if the trains fail inside the Channel Tunnel they can be evacuated quickly and is te reason only Eurostar and Eurotunnel trains are the only trains that trvel between the UK and France and Duetcher Bahn the German State Railway have been trying for some time now to operate from Berlin to London via the Channel Tunnel but their trins do not meet the safety requirements, plus HS2 is being constructed purly as a domestic hispeed passenger Railway Line
@NetworkNewsUK
19 сағат бұрын
HS2 is still being built to European gauge. The plan was that on completion of the full network it would run with "captive" trains built to European loading gauge which would have been more spacious inside and potentially cheaper to build due to being an off-the-shelf design. Building the Birmingham - Manchester section to British loading gauge would limit the ability to run such trains in the future. In terms of through services to the continent, you're right to say that many journeys would be easier by plane, but there will still be people who prefer to get the train for environmental reasons, fear of flying, or wanting to work while travelling (WiFi on planes can often be quite patchy). The potential for night trains to use the line is also not something to be scoffed at. Whilst building British-sized trains capable of using the channel tunnel is not impossible (it has been done before with the 373s), it presents an extra barrier to any operator wanting to run such services. The main point though seems to be that it's short-sighted to build the line to British loading gauge, when it likely wouldn't save that much money, but severaly limits flexibility in the future, whether that's for international trains, or just for the ability to use an off-the-shelf train design for the line!
@peterwilliamallen1063
19 сағат бұрын
@@NetworkNewsUK You are like a lot of people who have listened to Chinese Whispers on this subject of if some one says something by the time it gets to the 6th person it is the rule, Unlike your self and many others that keep giving ideas on HS2 I actually live in Birmingham at the heart of HS2 construction and work on a Railway having Railways as a hobby and have followed the construction of HS2 from the start and no where has it been mentioned in Railway Periodicals, HS2 ltd Video's or local press that the modern Construction due to cost will be built to UIC European Gauge or connected to HS1 in London, all this was thought about in the very early days but like every thing else was dropped due to cost, the tunnels have to be slightly larger with a form of fluted entrance and exit due to the proposed speed of 250 MPH to prevent a kind of sonnick boom as the trains enter and leave the tunnel's but the trains are being built to the UK loading Gauge so they can operate off the HS2 route and again there has been no official information of building just "captive HS2 Trains" due to cost and waste of time as the HS2 route is just a high speed domestic line bypassing the existing southern Section of the WCML as tis failed two upgrade attempts and will be operated by Avanti West Coast trains the operator of the WCML and will operate both lines. Travel from the UK to Europe was tried ut in the 1970's using class 373 trains and it failed so it will not start up gain
@NetworkNewsUK
18 сағат бұрын
@@peterwilliamallen1063 You're right that a connection to HS1 was planned but later dropped, and that the tunnels have to be larger to avoid a sonic boom, but a quick google shows that the line very much will be built to continental loading gauge (it would be madness not to) and was planned to use captive 400m trains. The reason you probably haven't heard about it before is because it's not the sort of thing they share on their socials as it's too 'technical' for the majority of the public to understand (or care about), but here's an official document from 2018 confirming their intention to use 400m trains built to European loading gauge: assets.hs2.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/30143637/CS883_K-Train-Types_web.pdf
@andyyu5957
17 сағат бұрын
You also forgot to mention that no link is planned between HS1 and HS2, so European trains will not be able to get on the line anyway. (By the way, I personally think this is a bad omission because it limits HS1 to London.)
@NetworkNewsUK
17 сағат бұрын
@@andyyu5957 yeah the plans for the link were dropped quite a while ago. There are other barriers to running international trains too, such as the need to construct customs facilities at all the stations served by international services. The point is that we shouldn't limit our ability to run such services in the future. We don't know what we're going to be demanding of our rail network in 100 years, but we should leave options open!
@Will-kp1iv
9 сағат бұрын
Honestly I'd rather they just restarted the 2nd leg of HS2 with some investigation into the cost overruns.
@jamesturner6339
17 сағат бұрын
It's typical of UK governments - the motto on infrastructure spending seems always to be "every expense spared." Build it cheap and let the next generation worry about its inadequacies. Just like "smart" motorways - we don't really need those hard shoulders, now do we?
@mubzytv
49 минут бұрын
I used to think whats the point of HS2 as it was marketed at getting to London quicker and we have issues with trains in the North. But once I heard it was to alleviate congestion on the WCML, I believe we need it or an alternative solution to it. Manchester to Birmingham is very congested
@NetworkNewsUK
43 минут бұрын
Yeah the PR department did a rubbish job of explaining the benefits of HS2 in the early years. The truth is that the biggest benefits of HS2 will be on the existing network, not on HS2 itself!
@Sam_Kings
19 сағат бұрын
Why are we incapable of building anything for the future?
@andyyu5957
18 сағат бұрын
£8 billion is spent every year housing, feeding, and educating "asylum seekers". Coastguards are welcoming them at the half way point in the Channel, they get to stay in nice hotels and anyone questioning the status quo are jailed for hurty words. And they want to save a few billion pounds by not building the second phase. Someone has got their priorities the wrong way round.
@JohnIvel_brant
2 сағат бұрын
very good
@mr.afrikaans1747
Сағат бұрын
Midlands? Birmingham isn’t the Midlands… There are dozens of towns and cities outside of it, many, many miles away that make up “The Midlands”.
@TheFirstConcorde
Күн бұрын
The loading gauge issue is particularly mad when you consider platform heights. Are they proposing to maintain HS2’s 1,115mm high platforms, or build the British standard 915mm? How would a 20cm gap between train and platform factor in with PRM and accessibility considerations? That suggestion alone would suggest that the person writing the report doesn’t understand what they’re on about.
@NetworkNewsUK
Күн бұрын
The decision to go with a platform height higher than the national standard for HS2 was so baffling that I have a whole video dedicated to it! In terms of what this new line does, it only has one intermediate station (Crewe) where it will share platforms with existing national rail trains, so therefore using the standard 915mm platform height. As for the Manchester/Liverpool stations, it's hard to say, but I imagine it will be done based on an assessment considering both -HS2- MNWRL and NPR.
@TheFirstConcorde
Күн бұрын
@@NetworkNewsUK While yes the decision to design higher-than-standard platforms appears odd, I think it’s a reasonable deviation in order to ensure step-free access which may not have appeared possible when initially designing HS2. While Crewe will be the only shared station, I don’t think it would be unreasonable to suggest that as a part of any upgrade it receives dedicated HS2 platforms built to 1,115mm to maintain step-free access. Ultimately, while odd, it doesn’t need to conform to national standards as HS2 services, even on the legacy network, could be timetabled to justify dedicated platforms. My thoughts on the gauge suggestion are that it’s fodder to be done away with. There’s just no way that anyone, even the hilariously-inept DfT, would agree to build two halves of a national high-speed network to two different (and significantly-so) loading gauges.
@peterwilliamallen1063
21 сағат бұрын
That is easily over come as was on the Eurostar sets, when the doors open at a different height platform all what happens is the Steward/Guard pesses a button and a small step operates
@TheFirstConcorde
9 сағат бұрын
@@peterwilliamallen1063 a step, though, isn’t step-free. PRMs would still require assistance from staff instead of being able to independently board the train (as should the goal be).
@peterwilliamallen1063
2 сағат бұрын
@@TheFirstConcorde Due to the animal a Railwy is you won't on the main rail network always get step free entrances to trains and people in wheel chairs do get assistance at stations to board and alight trains
@jammiedodger7040
11 сағат бұрын
Ballasted track works great if you use good high quality British Steel which should be renationalised. Also use high quality wood for the ballasts.
@exercept-mn7sw
7 сағат бұрын
nowhere uses wooden sleepers anymore, not least because the preservatives to make them last that long are basically too carcinogenic, and prestressed concrete sleepers are far better and less maintenance-heavy overall.
@NetworkNewsUK
19 минут бұрын
Ballasted tracks definitely have their place, but no matter how high quality the steel is, they will always require more maintenance than slab tracks, and on a railway used as intensively as HS2/MNWRL will be, they end up being more expensive in the long run!
@nbarrett100
20 сағат бұрын
So we spend more money over more time for slower trains to fewer destinations?
@DemonofChaos264
17 сағат бұрын
As someone who lives in Golborne, the cuts at 5:01 were really frustrating for everyone here. We have been told earlier this year that they plan to build a train station for real this time, but nobody believes them.
@vinniechan
23 сағат бұрын
There is no doubt our rail system needs an upgrade and wr need better and cheaper interconnrctivity But im not sure if high speed rail is worth it ay all At least it needs to be UK wide to make it big enough
@NetworkNewsUK
23 сағат бұрын
The justification behind high speed rail (at least in GB) is less about speed and more about capacity. Express trains eat up a lot of capacity from north-south mainlines because there needs to be a large gap in the timetable so they don't catch up with slower regional/freight trains in front of them. The plan is that by moving them to a new line, it frees up capacity on the existing network for more local, regional, and freight trains. The increased capacity could then be used to lower fares because of supply and demand.
@ninomanci3742
Сағат бұрын
Why are we even talking about moving passengers at a faster speed? There is little demand for this from most ordinary people. Surely instead we should be looking at a freight line with rail heads that can move goods around the country and to the ports more efficiently? This would also take many trucks off our road system and reduce the need for the mega trucks we increasingly see. With slower speeds the track would no longer have to be arrow straight, thus avoiding demolition and blight to heritage sites and reduce removal of ancient woodlands.
@NetworkNewsUK
Сағат бұрын
The WCML already provides a very good north-south freight line and is where all the existing sidings and distribution yards branch off. The problem is it has limited capacity to run freight trains as there's too many intercity trains using the line. The point of a new express line is to move those intercity trains off the existing line to create more capacity for freight. The designers optimised the alignment to include minimal disruption to villages and environmentally sensitive areas which also had the benefit of being very straight (the alignment dictated the speed rather than the other way round). Worth listening to the interviews with Andrew McNaughton on Green Signals and How to Build a Railway (both linked in the description) as he describes it much better than I can and was actually involved in the design process!
@Clickworker101
Күн бұрын
Include ects ftw
@NetworkNewsUK
Күн бұрын
Any new high speed line would include some form of digital signalling (ETCS or similar) as it's physically impossible for drivers to see signal aspects out of the window when travelling so fast!
@mikehiggins4079
20 сағат бұрын
Ignoring the obvious cost. Could sections of the 'ballast' track be replaced with 'slab' track at some point in the future?
@NetworkNewsUK
20 сағат бұрын
They could, but it would be enormously expensive and disruptive to do so, likely requiring the line to be closed for weeks!
@davedave6404
19 сағат бұрын
We pile cock-up on cock-up starting with Beeching. Short term interference from politicians with a time horizon of 5 years to try to please all the conflicting interests or sabotage groups more likely. Our tiny country needs projects of this scale. It's also about the desire of politicians to build monuments rather than efficient future proofed infrastructure. Mainly a view held by many, including me, is that their education is in humanities, law, accountancy, media studies, politics, sex lives of tadpoles in the 16th century etc. Very little understanding of all branches of Engineering, mirrored in the short sighted single issue voting records of the great British public. Grow our own qualified folks and reduce relying on consultants who give the answer they have been paid to give, and give planners legal powers to just get on with the F'ing job.
@ABTrainsYT
Күн бұрын
11:00 Can’t we just use Class 373s? They ran on the ECML once before which I think it’s British loading gauge, then they got sent over to HS1
@NetworkNewsUK
Күн бұрын
It's definitely possible, but many of the 373s have been scrapped now and the rest will likely follow at some point in the future as they're getting pretty old at this point! Of course, new trains could be procured to British loading gauge, but it's generally easier for operators such as Eurostar to procure off-the-shelf stock built to European loading gauge, as it's usually cheaper to do so.
@peterwilliamallen1063
21 сағат бұрын
This was an experiment in British Rail Days when the Channel Tunnel opened and they tried them on a service from Manchester to Paris via Birmingham which did not work out due to lack of patronage and the fact the trains were too long for the existing stations, they were then transfered to the ECML and operated for a while from Leeds to Kingscross but again there were logistical problems and were sent back to France where these 373 units were used on the Paris to Brussels services of SNCF/SNCB you can find all this information on Google
@mikehindson-evans159
21 сағат бұрын
And after 30 years, the worst-corroded half of the 373 fleet was pensioned off. The Channel Tunnel is a very hostile environment for steel train carriages (as we found) - and the "wrong kind of snow" in the 373 electric converters didn't help about ten years ago. So, with the "billion-pound per mile" NIMBY-friendly Chiltern Tunnel and others, what are the options - 40-year old 373s?
@ABTrainsYT
16 сағат бұрын
@@NetworkNewsUK It's a real shame and missed opportunity. All these great ideas that pop up, yet no one gets on with it and allows costs to go up 10 times the speed of sound and light put together. I very much love to see Birmingham to Continental Europe services to allow for a variety of routes to run on HS2 like London to Birmingham or Manchester or even Paris/Brussels to Birmingham/Manchester running express between Lille and Old Oak Common, with the London services on HS1 calling at Calais, Ashford and Ebbsfleet. A sleeper could include the tip of Scotland to the bottom of France, maybe Inverness to Marseille? You can decide on that lol
@ABTrainsYT
16 сағат бұрын
@@NetworkNewsUK Whichever way we come up with, we need a high speed line somewhere to not only ease up congestion on the east coast and west coast mainlines, but to also act serious in our competition on modern high speed rail services with the rest of Europe such as France with their TGV and Germany with their ICE. I can literally hear them laughing and pointing fingers at us right now. "Oh look at Britain, they're still stuck in the past with their old Victorian railway system. We on the other hand our modern and fit for the future with our high speed rail lines". D'ya see what I mean? We are a literal laughing stock in front of all of Europe if not the world stage as far as modern railways go!
@DaveSmith-s6e
23 сағат бұрын
The UK tunnel gauge doesn’t make sense. There are 5 cities in the uk with over 1 million people and hs2 sought to connect 4 of them with the ability to link to the European high speed network. Yes, moving uk high speed traffic off the WCML will give a big benefit still, but long term rail access to Europe from northern cities shouldn’t be scoffed at. The speed reduction to 300km/h absolutely makes sense. We do not have the population dispersal to justify the type of high speed used in Japan or China, nor do we have the geography to easily build long straight sections of track to hit the speeds. Going above 300km/h has always been the white whale of hs2 and it’s nice to see the report recognising the ability to have a world class rail system without needing to hit 400km/h.
@peterwilliamallen1063
21 сағат бұрын
No my friend there is only 1 City in the UK with over 1 million citizens other than London and that is the City of Birmingham which has arround now 1.5 million Citizens making it the Second Largest City in the UK and second City, I believe you are getting mixed up between a City and Metropolitan County such as the Metropolitan County of Greater Manchester and the City of Manchester and the speed of HS2 is 225 MPH against the original plan of 250 MPH ( in the UK we do not measure speed in KPH and have never done so only in the Republic of Ireland) do som reserch on UK Cities as I mentioned only one City has a population of over 1 million citizens, Birmingham.
@DaveSmith-s6e
20 сағат бұрын
@@peterwilliamallen1063 by city, I refer to the population density of the surrounding area, not just the city centre. Hence the 5 are, London, Birmingham, Leeds/bradford, Manchester, Glasgow. Leeds city centre for example has a city centre population of 800k people. But the Leeds Bradford area that would be served by hs2 would be a population of 2 million, given the surrounding area has access to Leeds within 15 mins via current rail links. If you want to try spin that manc shouldn’t be connected to high speed rail because the city centre population is under 1 million, but greater Manchester is 1.5 mill then be my guest. But your classification system is waaaaay off. And the class 395s on hs1 are made by hitachi, japan. The spec sheet is in km/h. Just because we stick an imperial Speedo in the train once then arrive in the uk, doesn’t make that the standard at which engineers are actually designing and measuring these things. Those people are working in kilometers I’m afraid buddy. (Ps, the tram system in London uses km/h and the speed signs on the network are in kph.)
@peterwilliamallen1063
19 сағат бұрын
@@DaveSmith-s6e In your article you exact words were " There are 5 Cities in the UK with a population of over 1 millon" but there isn't only one City has a population of over 1 million apart from London and that is the City of Birmingham which at present has a total population of arround 1.5 million and that is not the City Centre that is the total population with in the 150 sq mile area of the City of Birmingham all other UK cities have populations below 850,000 citizens with Liverpool comming about 3rd in size and the City of Manchester has only a population of 580.000 citizens but Leeeds/ Bradford are 2 entirely seperate Cities and can not be counted together and then at the end as usually happens you have mentioned Greater Manchester, Greater Manchester is not a City it is just a Metropolitan County set up in 1971 along with oother metro Councils like the West Midlands, Merseyside and Greater Glasgow and contain many seperate Cities, Towns and Villages with in their Boundaries all with seperate Councils and boundaries, but the confusion with Manchester is the word Mnchester as both Greater Manchester and the City of Manchester have Manchester in their name but are not one of same, so when a Cities position is to be taken into acount it is only the City of Manchester, Salford, Birmingham, Wolverhampton and Coventry that can be counted, so no there are not 5 Cities with over 1 million people living in them only 2 London with I believe 9 million + Citizens and the City of Birmingham the second largestt City in the UK with a popultion of 1.5 Million Citizens and rising. All other Cities in the UK have less that 800000 Citizens living in them and these figures are for the whole area of the said City not just the City Centres. No my classification is not as you put it Waaaaay off as you put it, I live in Birmingham plus do reserch into my Cities History and googled these facts and they are backed by the UK Government as official it is your article that is stating incorrect facts. Google is Greater Manchester a City and the answer is NO, a City can only be called a City when a Town is given the title of City by the Ruling Monache of the UK and the late Queen Elizabeth 2 was the last UK monache to give towns the status of City and Greater Manchester is not or hasn't been awarded City Status and never will as it isn't even a town so does not count, so basically you are quoting incorrect facts about UK cities
@DaveSmith-s6e
19 сағат бұрын
@@peterwilliamallen1063 yes, and then I corrected my exact wording with. ‘By city, I refer to the population density of the surrounding area.’ I then give the example of Leeds Bradford as to why this is important. Yes, Leeds and Bradford are different cities. Well done. But the land between them is flat, densely populated with good transport links, and only 10 km between them. We are talking about trains. If an inner city has half a million people, but 1.5 million can get access to the city within 15 minutes due to living within the cities postcode, do you get that those people are included in the assessment for who benefits from the rail service? Or do you still want to argue over not providing the literal dictionary definition of a city for the comment on a KZitem video? My point still stands. Those are the top 5 population densities in the uk that are all currently served by the WCML, apart from Leeds which acts as the link between the WCML and the ECML
@peterwilliamallen1063
16 сағат бұрын
@@DaveSmith-s6e Well in your scenario you could say that the Cities of Coventry and Wolverhampton having flat Country and only 10 to 15 miles apart are a part of Birmingham but they are not they are independent Cities as are Leeds and Bradford 2 independent Cities only joined together as part of Yorkshire thats all. The 1.5 million Citizens live with in the City Of Birmingham Ciyu Boundaries and have nothing to do with getting to stations . It appears by your writnig it seems you either do not live in the UK or do not know what a city constitutes in the UK, in the UK our system starts with a Hamlet, smaller than a village constituting to a few houses and maybe a Church, pub and Farms the oldest form of living in the UL, next you have villages far larger than a Hamlet with Villiage councils and a fairly large population, as a Vilage Grows it can become a Town which have large population's and civic amenities to suit it's population then in two ways in the UK a Town becomes a City, it usually is if the Church builds a Cathedral in that Town then the Soverieghn of the UK grants that Town a City or if the Soverieghn has a special Jubilee celebrations they can then grant a Town in the UK City Status which is how Birmingham Became a City, it was granted City Status in the 1800's by Queen Victoria having a Church of England Cathedral , St Phiilips and a Catholic Cathedral St Chads and a UK City is made up of a City Centre and out lying Suburbs defined by a City Boundry set by the UK Boundary Commision and Birmingham was expanded in 1974 by taking over the Royal Town of Sutton Coldfield, judsst google it that is the definition of a UK City and if you lived in the UK you would know that, What you are refering to are Metropolitan Counties in the UK which are not classed as Cities or designated as Cities and were set up in 1974 just to look after the Police. Ambulance, Fire Brigades and Transport plus a few roads in their areas and help out local businesses thats all. The only Centres of population served by HS2 are London, Birmingham at the moment and if the two Metro Mayors of the West Midlands combined Authority and Greater Manchester can source the momey Manchester with Liverpool being connected by the existing main line from Crewe and Scotland by again the existing Main Line and the only link between the East Coast and HS2 properly is the Cross Country line via Derby operated by X Country Trains providing train services from Leeds and York to Bristol and Plymouth via Birmingham New Street, all Leeds has is a Northern trans pennine service across the Pennines to Manchester, oh what ever a Dictionary staes about a City, in the UK it is how it has been done for a thousand years, Oh we do not talk in Killometers in the UK only in Miles as when we joined the EU only the Currency changed to decimal and measurin commodities were in metric, but distances and speeds of vehicals were kept in Miles and Miles per hour
@philjameson292
22 сағат бұрын
I just wonder how much money that could have been saved if HS2 had been designed to run at a lower speed? My experience of the original TGV Paris Lyon line in the 80s was that 186mph was fine Why aim for a 250mph track design when its only half that distance from London to Birmingham?
@NetworkNewsUK
22 сағат бұрын
In the Green Signals interview that I mentioned in the video (I think it's linked in the description) Andrew McNaughton basically said that the costs of a higher speed are mostly to do with needing more sound barriers than anything else. He also said that if the line had been designed to a lower top speed, the alignment wouldn't actually have changed at all, as it has already been optimised to cause the least amount of disruption, which just happens to give it a very straight route! Since the alignment would be basically the same, the line would cost basically the same!
@philjameson292
22 сағат бұрын
I think the major fact that you are missing with your analysis is: what will be the situation with the current HS2 scope? From what i understand is that HS2 trains cannot run north of Birmingham due to the loading guage and for them to run then all of the bridges north of Birmingham would have modified Secondly there isn't any actual connection north of Birmingham for it to connect to the west coast mainline Hence HS2 is just a glorified branch line HS2 just runs from Oak junction to Birmingham since construction has been halted on upgrading Euston
@NetworkNewsUK
22 сағат бұрын
HS2 trains very much can run north of Birmingham. The trains currently planned for the line are "classic compatible" meaning they're built to British loading gauge. Historically there were also plans for HS2 "captive" trains which would be built to European loading gauge and therefore wouldn't have been able to run on existing lines, but the plan for these trains was abandoned after the eastern leg was scrapped meaning the line would be run entirely using classic compatible trains. Phase 1 does also include a connection to the West Coast Mainline at Handsacre near Lichfield, however work on this has been delayed due to the uncertainty over what's happening with phase 2.
@philjameson292
22 сағат бұрын
@@NetworkNewsUK ok thanks for the clarification. If that's the case then building any alternative high speed line north of Birmingham to UK gauge doesn't really matter Another aspect that I have read is that single length HS2 trains don't have as much capacity as current trains so unless new platforms are built at Manchester then the double length HS2 trains can't be accommodated Hence the north has also a potential issue with reduced capacity
@NetworkNewsUK
22 сағат бұрын
@@philjameson292 that is true. Unless this line is built it will mean that the HS2 trains running north of Birmingham will have 17% less capacity than today. However, if the 400m platforms are built allowing the trains to double-up, then it ought to be significantly more capacity than we see today!
@mikehindson-evans159
21 сағат бұрын
@@philjameson292 Which means that the whole line (including new Manchester Piccadilly capable of handling 400m trains - needs to be built. Otherwise you end up with a sub-optimal outcome.
@philjameson292
21 сағат бұрын
@@mikehindson-evans159 totally agree, plus the development at Euston otherwise HS2 is just a white elephant
@helmutzollner5496
22 сағат бұрын
I thought Rishy has tried to sell off the land of the cancelled track segments, or was that further north?
@NetworkNewsUK
22 сағат бұрын
He tried but failed. None of the land purchased for HS2 has actually been sold!
@helmutzollner5496
15 сағат бұрын
@@NetworkNewsUK Excellent! Very glad to hear that. That would have put the brakes on any future rail improvements. Very good.
@stevesanders6770
22 сағат бұрын
Very much left with the incorrect impression that Andy street is still the metro mayor for WM. Richard Parker won’t be happy with you!
@NetworkNewsUK
22 сағат бұрын
Yeah I probably should have mentioned in the video that he is no longer the Mayor of the West Midlands.
@mikehindson-evans159
21 сағат бұрын
@@NetworkNewsUK Well, in fairness, you did very clearly state "in January 2024". Don't beat yourself up - this is a truly excellent video, stating the case and situation, for which I personally thank you.
@stevesanders6770
20 сағат бұрын
@@mikehindson-evans159 agree, great overview. Wasn’t meaning to sound like a smart @rse 👍
@FranzBieberkopf
22 сағат бұрын
No mention of Tory Nimbyism driving the cost of HS2 into the stratosphere. The amount of tunnels is crazy, and how many of those tunnels are in Tory constituencies.
@mikehindson-evans159
21 сағат бұрын
Did you mean HS1 - as you wrote originally - or HS2?? HS1 is working well and has done since fully opened (and remember that, with Fawkham Junction, HS1 opened in two sections).
@FranzBieberkopf
16 сағат бұрын
@@mikehindson-evans159 I stand corrected-changed
@bertiesworld
Күн бұрын
And so the East side of the country continues to suffer. It's funny, given the same distances, I could travel faster from my house in Somerset to the suburbs of London (just over 2 hours), faster than I can going down the East coast to see my sister (nearer 4 hours minimum). Be that by road or train (train is nearer 5 hours). The East of the country suffers from non existence fast rail and road travel. My own view is that the building work should have started in the middle i.e. Leeds. Train travel to London is already there. For instance, I can travel from Lincoln to Kings X in less than 2 hours. 1hr 50 mins to be exact. Getting to places like Hull etc is another matter. Just needs the means and the will. Unfortunately, in the UK, we are very short sighted. All to do with profit over function for the masses. I'm going to China soon. There I will see where the will and the means really does work.
@NetworkNewsUK
Күн бұрын
I've long been of the opinion that the eastern leg has the possibility to be the most transformative, purely because there's no meaningful 'spine' railway through that part of the country!
@nade5557
22 сағат бұрын
London-centricness is honestly choking the rest of the UK. It's like a tumour sucking up all of the resources
@MrMakeDo
22 сағат бұрын
I’d put money in this not happening
@Cotswolds1913
20 сағат бұрын
The real solution is stop building tunnels over flat f*n ground for heaven sake. The planning law needs abolished, and pass a law outlining a clear process for land acquisition that eliminates the long deliberations and over charging (HMRC or whoever can calculate property site values in concert with another assessing firm), then award the money, with recipients required to accept.
@Cotswolds1913
20 сағат бұрын
Oh and cut the number of bridges by at least half, probably more than half.
@dugowf766
16 сағат бұрын
So short sighted. If you’re going to do it, do it right, and connect it with the rest of the HS system.
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