Thanks for watching the video! Please let me know what I got right, what I got wrong, and any of your opinions on the points made. Links in the description for those who want to view the Commentaries themselves. Likes (or dislikes), shares, comments, and subscriptions would all help me out a ton. My Twitch: www.twitch.tv/emerdareloth40 Discord Server: discord.gg/v8JJ8tqr. Thanks, -Dareloth
@wikipediaintellectual7088
2 ай бұрын
6:17 Bro, why do you bother with Elevenlabs voiceovers when you can read like this? If you want to use AI so that it sounds like the original actors, I'd recommend using an option that "covers" your readings with their voice profiles.
@JayMannStuff
Ай бұрын
How to translate Daedra and Aedra easily: did they assist in the creation of Mundus? Yea or nay? Yeadra yes, Naydra nope because Daedra didn't. 😂
@kris-zw5hx
3 ай бұрын
He just entered "showracemenu" in the command consol
@LimpRichard
3 ай бұрын
He changed his race by altering his soul with mehrunes razor.
@owenrobson5617
2 ай бұрын
That implies he achieved Chim, in which case, he wasn't very good at being a god.
@lottatore
2 ай бұрын
lol
@vitriolicAmaranth
Ай бұрын
@@owenrobson5617 CHIM isn't the console. It's a philosophical concept heavily inspired by Kirkbride's research on Buddhism and Theosophy (it's almost exactly moksha/nibana/nirvana, contrasted with damma/dharma, the rules or "wheel," Aurbis in the language of Elder Scrolls, to which ordinary mortals are bound; one of the esoteric secrets of Buddhism is that it preaches adherence to the dharma but also strife against samsara, the dharmic cycle of rebirth, and kamma/karma, the volitional change of cause and effect, to achieve nirvana) that sort of vaguely and superficially resembles a player using the console, because like using the console it allows one to transcend rules of the universe to which others are chained. That one blog about CHIM being the pause menu and command console and creation set did so much damage to Elder Scrolls lore discussion.
@averyn34
18 күн бұрын
@@vitriolicAmaranth Im pretty sure most people know that its a meme to compare CHIM and the console.
@RancorousSea
3 ай бұрын
It's kinda crazy how the beginning of the game is the Emperor getting stuck by a rando cultist in a sewer. You have to respect the hustle from a bunch of jobbers.
@RancorousSea
3 ай бұрын
also between ESO and Fallout 76 I think Todd Howard has a vendetta against MMORPGs, you know it's bad when 76 is the "better" one bc the combat is lifted from fallout 4. Why couldn't they just do that for ESO so confusing tbh.
@theemerdareloth
3 ай бұрын
@RancorousSea They're different styles of games all together. I like ESO, but they've really lost their direction over the years. Their DLC release schedules have driven that game to new lows.
@gobbo1917
3 ай бұрын
I always wish that the man that assassinated the emperor was like a named cultist, maybe like the right hand man, and would serve as a boss to hunt down before you actually hunt down Cameron.
@LifeDrain001
3 ай бұрын
@@gobbo1917wasn’t he Camoran’d s brother or whoever that appears alongside his sister in paradise?
@theemerdareloth
3 ай бұрын
@LifeDrain001 Ruma and Raven Camoran are Mankar's daughter and son respectively. He mentions them in the Commentaries, but I felt no need to include that in this video. The guy at the beginning is just some dude, but I believe he has connections to Sylus from Skyrim if I'm not mistaken. Slyus mentions something about his ancestors participating in the assassination of Uriel VII.
@RancorousSea
3 ай бұрын
I wonder if Dagon was giggling as he was writing the first Gnostic Bible and throwing it to Nirn like Ryuk.
@theemerdareloth
3 ай бұрын
Hahahaha. He was probably kicking his feet and twirling his hair while he was writing it.
@tristanwallen5225
3 ай бұрын
@@theemerdarelothnah you’re funny asf, I gotta follow for the great lore videos too
@Warpded
2 ай бұрын
This comment gave me the best mental image.
@themiband0598
2 ай бұрын
technically not gnostic because the material world is real and not created by an evil demiurge but yeah lol
@PosthumanHeresy
2 ай бұрын
@@themiband0598 If you ask the elves it sure the heck is.
@quint3ssent1a
3 ай бұрын
It's kinda hard to appreciate Mankar from what little screentime he got, but dude surely is an achiever. His "paradise" and the fact that he replicated daedra's reincarnation in Oblivion after their death on Nirn is very impressive.
@theemerdareloth
3 ай бұрын
He's a very interesting character. Oblivion does not represent him very well.
@prophetedubaroque5136
3 ай бұрын
Truly fascinating, if only mehrunes Dagon was ever portayed as having a shade of nuance in the game.
@ninjakalla4361
3 ай бұрын
The tortures in Camoran's paradise were meant to make the cultists spirits the same as daedras who fear no death or torment like mortals. It was no punishment but part of the process to refine them into true immortals who care nothing for what happens to their body since it will be reborn, just like the daedra. It seems in the game like no one really explained this to the cultists or they just really hate the process which anyone would. Eventually going mad and then reforging their spirit into something that's the goal, something that's been tortured enough might take years.
@sindrimyr5351
3 ай бұрын
I have been hearing about this theory for years and I really like it. Also perhaps the fact that this part was omissioned was part of it? Perhaps they had to go through the Agony in fullest, to truly be rid of all mortal weakness, through pain. Maybe if they knew they would be more prepared? Maybe it would muddle the process? Hard to say. But I really like this idea.
@baryony
2 ай бұрын
@@sindrimyr5351 I'm not sure if it's just a theory. I vaguely remember that there was an in-game source that mentioned something like that.
@PosthumanHeresy
2 ай бұрын
Interestingly, that's how Hellraiser works.
@KranPolo
3 ай бұрын
What I’ve never bought into is the idea that Mehrunes Dagon, as Prince of Change and Revolution, would install a world order wherein the faithful are “set above all mortals” forever. It seems antithetical to his sphere and nature to desire that outcome.
@Spacecoreinspace
2 ай бұрын
i kinda imagine it wouldn't be permanent, and he'd back the underdogs when they'd inevitably rebel, maybe keeping it in a revolutionary loop but also: dagon thinks that nirn belongs to him, right? he may just be so pissed about not getting nirn that he's acted outside of his normal nature consistency whenever it's in the picture
@greyborn2213
Ай бұрын
Honestly I've always seen the idea Dagon cultists KEEP ON GETTING that they're gonna be the ones in power when everything is said and done to be something they just sorta... insert. Putting words in Dagon's mouth. Like he (dagon) is like "We will topple the tyrants and lay low the current order" and the cultists are like "To set us above all mortals then, right??" "..." "To set us above all mortals then... right????" Whereas in reality any reality where Dagon wins would just be a constant turning cycle of rebellions with no true rulers.
@dabash1039
3 ай бұрын
You Absolute Legend. I can't believe how detailed and original this lore dive is. You know you're deep in the rabbit hole when you get redirected to adult entertainment sites. Your voice acting is brilliant, btw I want that Mythic Dawn mug!
@theemerdareloth
3 ай бұрын
I'll have to start up a shop haha.
@carolynr570
3 ай бұрын
39:29 if you check mythic dawn commentaries 4 and vivecs sermon 28 (and a couple other sources uesp cites) it says that the magna-ge created mehrunes dagon to put an end to molag bal’s and the dreughs tyrannical rule over lyg. He is “the razor”, imbued with hope to cut down molag bal. Dagon’s whole thing is not just destruction for its own sake, but for revolution, which is why mankar Cameron is working with him specifically to “free” the mundus.
@theemerdareloth
3 ай бұрын
I don't believe we ever get a mention of Molag Bal, specifically in the Commentaries. Rather, he's referred to in the Sermons of Vivec, which, again, are both by MK. We get a reference to a city called Malbioge in the Commentaries, which could be taken to be a city of Molag Bal's (similar naming structure?). Definitely makes sense though. Mehrunes Dagon has many spheres, not just destruction. Would've been a good thing for me to bring up, nonetheless. Thanks for the comment!
@UmbraDiSol
3 ай бұрын
Consider that Lyg isn't a real place, but more like a stain on the backside of the map of tamriel.
@Raycloud
2 ай бұрын
I think an interesting twist for a future TES game would be the Thalmor dominating Tamriel and Mehrunes Dagon becoming a patron of the player who assists in overthrowing them.
@donutlovingwerewolf8837
Ай бұрын
@@Raycloud now THAT would be an awesome twist and a nice change of pace.
@mithras223
3 ай бұрын
I went to Gaiar Alata and all I got was this lousy eternity of suffering and pain.
@McHobotheBobo
2 ай бұрын
Not eternity, just long enough to steel you for rulership 😈
@ShadaOfAllThings
2 ай бұрын
Nymics are fucking cool as an aspect of TES lore and I'd love someone to go in depth on them. From swordsmen who learn the true names of their blades to wizards trying to understand an aspect of magic so hard they learn a nymic
@drewgoin8849
2 ай бұрын
I have only played "TES V: Skyrim", but I dig the entire series' deep lore. I, too, would enjoy a video that analyzed Tamriel's hidden underworking. The vanished dwarves harnessed reality's tonal architecture. Yokudan refugee bands trained and fought using the Shehai, or song-sword. Nordic heroes toppled armies with the power of their voices. It's really fascinating stuff! musical tones are implied to play a fundamental role in the world's makeup
@mindtrait0r879
19 күн бұрын
It brought me immense joy to see you show an excerpt of the page I wrote on Adjacent Places, many thanks and an excellent video!
@theemerdareloth
19 күн бұрын
Thanks for being a part of the community!
@andythedishwasher1117
3 ай бұрын
Honestly, that's a sick mug. Well played.
@theemerdareloth
3 ай бұрын
Thank you! I was very proud of how it turned out.
@nicksmith9513
3 ай бұрын
Now THIS scratches my tism real good
@dylanbell268
3 ай бұрын
Remember, Dagon is not just the prince of destruction, he is change and revolution. This is why Dagon targets the status quo, why his artifact, mehrunes razor, changes reality itself. I think that the paradise is as it is because Dagon is not attempting to create a new status quo, he is seeking to destroy the current one. The Dawn members don’t understand this and thus are tortured, they sought power from being downtrodden. Dagon also allows you as the player to enter paradise and kill Camaron, thus destroying the potential new status quo created by the Dawn.
@theemerdareloth
3 ай бұрын
Yes. I've heard the take before that Dagon did kind of win in the end anyway because the Oblivion Crisis and the disintegration of the Dragonborn Emperors completely destabilized Tamriel (lots of change and revolution).
@prophetedubaroque5136
3 ай бұрын
@@theemerdareloth Dagoth, the prince of shaking things up, honestly one of the most interesting deadra with a lot of potential even if sadly he is a lot of time portrayed as just, the big red devil dude of destruction which is so sad. For me it's so fascinating a deadra prince that a lot of people in marge of society would prey to because there unsatisfied with the status quo but on the long term will never truly satisfy anyone as what's interesting him is not the cause or the after of a revolution, but revolution itself. In a sense I see him as a god of time in a sense (I know there's already a god of time in akatosh) because he is a force that will never allow the world to stagnate, a force that seek change, not for the sake of a better tomorrow but for the sake of change itself. Sorry for the long reply that just repeat itself but I really like dagon and i'm really sad that the elder scroll didn't do justice to the deadra prince. Hell perhaps one day the player could seek Merhunes as an ally as he could be a very interesting ally in due time, but one that will never stay an ally.
@KitsuneYojimbo
2 ай бұрын
@@prophetedubaroque5136Bingo! It's why, after learning his lore, Dagon, to me, comes off as the epitome of Chaotic Neutral. He's very fickle, yet when it comes to bringing change to the world, Dagon doesn't really care about what kind of change you bring to the world with his power, so long as you can pique his interest with your plans and have the means to do so. Especially when you compare Dagon to some truly evil Daedra like Molag Bal
@prophetedubaroque5136
2 ай бұрын
@@KitsuneYojimbo Perhaps one day we will see more of its potential... One day...
@dylanbell268
Ай бұрын
@@prophetedubaroque5136 you are exactly right, and i think that him being the prince of change is why Mankar ultimately failed. Camaron wanted to bring the stagnant merethic era back by converting tamriel into the lorkhan realm again, and by reverting time. Dagon is dependent on time to cause change, and so he allows the player to enter paradise and overthrow Mankar.
@randymarshislorde
2 ай бұрын
I REALLY want to believe the razor theory is correct, and the fact that mehrunes razor was potentially able to essentially 'slice' someone's identity into pieces, allowing them to make a new one, is one of those obscure and infinitely complex things that makes me absolutely LOVE TES lore. Those esoteric and vague things like CHIM, mantling, the various realms, and so on; they are all things i could listen to lore about for hours and hours
@anonymone453
3 ай бұрын
You do a pretty good impression of Terrence Stamp's accent and cadence for Camoran
@theemerdareloth
3 ай бұрын
Thank you
@atnasingetnamn2887
3 ай бұрын
I got so fuckin' giddy seeing this vid; the Mythic Dawn could've had such potential, and I love delving into it like this.
@theemerdareloth
3 ай бұрын
They're so interesting and under-represented in Oblivion. Hope you enjoyed it!
@BestPokemonTrainer1
27 күн бұрын
Excellent videos, I think the academic approach of looking through a historical lens has been quite refreshing in lore/theory videos. The way you lay your claims and evidence have been awesome.
@MultiSpeedMetal
3 ай бұрын
Ok, I'll join if I get the sick bound armor.
@theemerdareloth
3 ай бұрын
Not being able to acquire that armor in-game is criminal.
@weeaboobaguette3943
3 ай бұрын
Everyone : Oh no ! The dragonfire is dying ! Scalibois : Oh no ! We can't colonise hell fast enough !
@vitriolicAmaranth
Ай бұрын
The way it sounds when stated bluntly is badass but in the context of saxhleel lore it just kind of makes sense. Argonians are wild beasts that were warped into sapience by the Hist, meaning they mirror the Hist's attitudes, and they are strongest near the Hist, which can change their bodies to suit the situation. The Hist are a colony organism with a hive-mind, appearing to be trees, that have colonies all over Oblivion and originally came from Sithis or the void of Oblivion itself; Collectively, they sound a lot like an extra Daedric Prince who (like Sheogorath and Mehrunes, who are odd even by Daedric standards by their very natures) transcends a lot of the rules that bind other Princes. This is reinforced by the fact that while every other race "changes places" with their enantiomorphs along with their gods who do the same at the end of each kalpa (nords swapping with altmer, Mara with Nocturnal, etc), the Hist and Redguards are unique in that they each have ways of hiding outside of the world during Alduin's/Satakal's eating, allowing them to return with cultural continuity- Thus the only truly and consistently Anuic race is Redguard, and the only truly and consistently Padomaic race (or deity) is Hist, and by extension their followers, the Saxhleel (called Argonians in the current kalpa, after the name of the place where they live in the greatest numbers). With all of that in mind, the Argonians invading the Deadlands is like the Dark Seducers invading Mania or something- Not exactly normal, but not exactly surprising or impressive either. It's just conquest by one Daedric faction against another.
@ashezarrine
3 ай бұрын
Damn, the algorithm finally did right by me with recommending this video. Amazingly done man, definitely gonna sub and watch more of your stuff! Nothing better than an incredibly researched Elder Scrolls deep dive like this; keep it up. I feel like this channel is about to blowup!
@josephpercy1558
3 ай бұрын
Quality video! Solid take on Mankar Camoran. Shame he didn't get more screen time in TES IV. In my opinion, he's the best villain in TES series because of the quality writing and charismatic voice acting, particularly his Gaiar Alata speech. Opportunity was wasted, however, because it could have been so much better.
@GrrumpyPants
3 ай бұрын
This is only a thought, I have no evidence to back this up, and there may in fact be information in the lore that contradicts this. What if Mehrunes Dagon was in fact created by the Magne ge in lyg, but they created him using either the corpse or Nymic of Lorkhan? This would explain why they are both the Daedric Prince of change, and why Mankar is associated specifically with Dagon and not any of the other Princes. It would also make Dagon, quite literally, heartless. This could explain his somewhat brutal nature, despite the intentions of the Magne ge when creating him to reclaim mundus.
@David_Alvarez77
2 ай бұрын
I was just wondering that myself. What if Mehrunes Dagon is the centerless living/re-constituted corpse of Lorkhan/Shor?
@Zegathra
Ай бұрын
20:35 Or it's a lie. Being contemporary with Tiber Septim is a propaganda tactic to make them seem more important by association.
@levifowler7933
Ай бұрын
@@Zegathra this is also a fairly common thing to do throughout history for your ancestors
@mahiganti
3 ай бұрын
The Dareloth Commentaries of the Mythic Dawn
@theemerdareloth
3 ай бұрын
I though about naming this video: "Dareloth's Commentaries on the Commentaries on the Mysterium Xarxes," but it doesn't roll off the tongue quite as well haha.
@keythealien
3 ай бұрын
I forgot Camoran stated Dagon would "remake" the world. The amount of times some star-aligned halfwit saved the world from its apparently natural kalpar (calpar? Calpa? Kal...) recycle is getting kind of outrageous. I'm an Alduin apologist at this point. Jagged brother was just the final boss of nature when Sean Bean stopped Dagon from doing Dagon shit. When do we just, you know, let the world end? It's the only way to "bring the Dwemer back" probably, too. Is the Dreamer in a coma at this point because of how long this current cycle is? Where's the philosophical "can we/should we" regarding the world-ending threat of the week? TES6 is just gonna be TES4 and 5 in a new location with no new commentary on anything, isn't it? Honestly, at this point, I'm sick of saving the world. Where's my RPG choice to just let it happen? Maybe I wanted to join Mankar Camoran... like who doesn't want to follow the guy who basically made his own Daedric realm? That's crazy. You know what? You've convinced me. I'm joining a cult.
@AnotherDante
Ай бұрын
*BASED*
@boothefuzzyhamster3815
18 күн бұрын
Whether Lorkhan was the betrayer or bettayed is usually the key distinction between Anuic and Padomiac religios in elder scrolls. We hear the Anuic one more because the Aldmer had the oldest written records on the subject. I think the 'skin of gold line' refers to the orignal tales of these Aldmer, as they would have the first people to claim and write down that Lorkhan was a betrayer. Also, the Scarab is simply used in numerous elder scrolls sources to refer to Lorkhan.
@blairdurward4324
3 ай бұрын
I think he WAS onto something, Dagon clearly has more going on than we originally thought, far from right about everything but changing to an altmer and wearing the amulet of kings, the tools he discovered certainly worked. I’ve never believed all Daedra are evil, pretty Dunmerish on that, but Dagon was NOT in my list of positive Daedra.
@theemerdareloth
3 ай бұрын
I agree! I like the view of Daedric Princes not all being evil. Things aren't as interesting in a black and white world.
@wasserruebenvergilbungsvirus
2 ай бұрын
Khajiit also don't view Daedric Princes as categorically evil, neither do Argonians (they have their own thing going on with the Hist, and Sithis who is neither Daedra nor Aedra). Really this whole notion of good Aedra vs bad Daedra seems like something imposed by the Empire on other cultures with much more nuanced views.
@ribbityray5381
2 ай бұрын
This is an excellent video and so detailed and well constructed. I’m thankful to have gotten this in my feed. I’ve been recently replaying Oblivion and this is just what I’ve been looking for. It goes without saying, subscribed.
@Merlin_Ambrosius_1100
Ай бұрын
For the idea that the aedra are “weak” or “silent”, i always imagined it was because they’re spread out across mundus as the elements and natural laws and as such can’t spare the resources to speak directly The daedra, however, aren’t bound that way and as such can spare the attention/resources to appear directly
@공상가-t3c
3 ай бұрын
very well put together, enjoyed
@theemerdareloth
3 ай бұрын
Thank you!
@ladonmccabe
3 ай бұрын
I think Mankar being an Altmer has less to do with his actual lineage, and more to do with gameplay. This way he can be tall (and more imposing), and he does have a darker complexion that bosmer typically have
@nickcurrie_
3 ай бұрын
Agreed. I think that’s why too: because had they been honest, Mankar would’ve been one short guy instead of one tall guy.
@KestralKuthule
2 ай бұрын
You know the thing about cultists, they get told so many lies that their "truths" are rarely fact. You don't need to make excuses for Bethesda if you consider that in the real world flat earthers exist. Sometimes people are just wrong.
@couldntthinkofacoolname9608
3 ай бұрын
Iirc, Dagon was created to overthrow the Dreugh, both as a prince of hope and revolution. That doesn't make him "Good" though, as hope for something Different doesn't always lead to things becoming better.
@theemerdareloth
3 ай бұрын
Yeah, it's definitely very ambiguous.
@sethharris813
3 ай бұрын
A theory I've had about Mankar and his bosmeri ancestry: he was able to discover and alter his protonymic because of his bosmeri heritage. What are the bosmer famous for? Shapeshifting! Using Mehrunes Razor to manipulate the usually uncontrollable shifting that bosmer do via the Wild Hunt.
@Kaewin5510
Ай бұрын
Your impression of mankar is actually really good.
@theemerdareloth
Ай бұрын
Thank you!
@omegagilgamesh
3 ай бұрын
THANK YOU!!! For, like, almost 20 years, I wondered WTF "protonymic" referred to.
@JD-du5wn
2 ай бұрын
I remember reading a piece of lore that states the Altmer believe they are the closest remnants to the Et’Ada that became mortal races and only that race. Maybe that’s why Mankar Cameron appears as a Altmer after using Mehrunes razor to change his Nymic. As they are the closest thing to a mers secret/true name
@JD-du5wn
2 ай бұрын
Maybe I’m super wrong but who cares I’m high af I love elder scrolls
@justyce_yt
2 ай бұрын
I'm glad these video exist 😵💫 I'm not sure if I could do this research myself
@davatho
2 ай бұрын
Thank you. I've pondered on Mankar's character for decades, he just didn't make any sense. It's great to have some concrete answers now.
@JCarter87_
2 ай бұрын
This quenched my thirst for a deep delve into the Mythic Dawn! Thank you! Oblivion was my first ES game and Mankar Camoran was just so enigmatic I truly wanted to know a more about the lore behind the cult!
@Falkriim
Ай бұрын
I love the Mythic Dawn. Always wished you could’ve joined them (I know you technically can if you leave the shrine early enough)
@Priceluked
16 сағат бұрын
I wish Mankar could have been a character which reoccurred and showed up outside of the two times we see him. It would have been better for players to interact with him a few more times and to listen to his words more. I think lots of players don’t even speak to him in Paradise and just attack anyway.
@Hirohitorunguard
3 ай бұрын
This video was so well made.
@fitz7231
Ай бұрын
I just want to let you know I really enjoyed this video - really well done, and really piqued my interest. I wonder how Camoran's twin children fit into how he was remade, especially since I believe they have some interesting lore of their own?
@theemerdareloth
Ай бұрын
Thank you! Mankar refers to ravens throughout the Xarxes, which is his son's name, and he mentions his daughter, Ruma, whose name is something in Ayleid, I believe.
@fitz7231
Ай бұрын
@@theemerdareloth Master Dareloth! How lovely! Honestly - this entire passage from the Commetaries about Ruma is chilling and compelling at the same time: `Falter now and become one with the wayside orphans that feed me. Follow and I shall adore you from inside. My first daughter ran from the Dagonite road. Her name was Ruma and I ate her with no bread, and made another, which learned, and I loved that one and blackbirds formed her twin behind all time.` I love how this is written - horrifying, fascinating - and I can take quite a few different meanings about what Mankar is actually saying here. Did he remaking her, or is he speaking about creating Raven to love instead?
@theemerdareloth
Ай бұрын
@fitz7231 Yeah, it's definitely open to interpretation. It's even possible he recreated Ruma, this time with a nymic, and with her came Raven. We also do not know anything about their mother, so are they like artificial creations, Daedra, etc...?
@Araedi
Ай бұрын
In all likelyhood Mankar Camoran was able to use CHIM which would explain not only his looks but the quote as when you use CHIM you change not only the future and presant but the past as well which is why Cyrodiil isnt a rainforest in ESO Tiber Septim reshaped the land using CHIM so just kinda makes sense that Mankar could too
@Mecceldorf
3 ай бұрын
In Egyptian mythos, a scarab is a powerful symbol among all the people, an icon of wealth and fortune to the middle class and a seal of power and authority when used by the high class. It was commonly associated with Khepri, a scarab himself who arose to divinity from a ball of dung and represented the rising sun (not necessarily the full sun itself) and the act of creation itself in emulation of the universal creator. Tamriel ae Daedroth, Tamriel is Daedra(/oth), Scarab ae Aurbex, likely Scarab is Universe (aurbis). In continuing with the sermon, Mankar reasons that aedra lack the divine spark, authority, or royalty in itself to rule the universe as a godhead, they are not truly gods under this definition. Kirkbride likely had CHIM, the syllable of royalty, on his mind in this context, the act of mortals attaining divinity through a meta understanding of the dream they inhabit, using the trials of Lorkhan and the mundus as a stepping stone to find the godhead, which Vivec was accredited with accomplishing, and Tiber Septim/Talos likely came to understand as well.
@ZingoBananaa
3 ай бұрын
I think "oath breakers" refer to Magnus and the Magna Ge, who fled Mundus soon after it's creation without having completed their "oath" to it's creation like the Aedra and Ehlonfey
@RKGrizz
Ай бұрын
What a great video. I would count myself among those who find his arguments at least a bit persuasive. Much of what he says seems to be supported, at least in theory, by the structure of the creation myths.
@chloe-historyandgames
3 ай бұрын
wth you're only a small channel? this is amazing stuff!
@theemerdareloth
3 ай бұрын
Thank you! The best way to get the word out and grow the channel is by commenting, sharing, subbing, or liking, so much appreciated!
@sunflower_ace
3 ай бұрын
Only 18 minutes in so maybe this is said in the video but... Oh shit, if only daedra are known to have nymics and Mankar Camoran was able to change his Nymic, that kind of gives a lot of credence to his idea that Nirn is a daedric realm and mortals are the daedroths within
@theemerdareloth
3 ай бұрын
Very cool observation!
@James-rm7sr
17 күн бұрын
Given the torcher going on in Mehrunes Dagon's realm, I would feel safe to say he isn't a good guy. It is basically Hades trying to get control.
@Bongwater33
3 ай бұрын
Great video, very interesting topic!
@theemerdareloth
3 ай бұрын
Thank you!
@orangeposting
2 ай бұрын
I think it's worth mentioning that the Camoran Usurper was also associated with a deadric prince, Molag Bal. Supposedly Molag Bal even being his father. Which, complicates the Mankar situation more. Then supposedly Haymon's mother was a breton, which would make Mankar half bosmer, quarter breton, quarter daedric prince. Just to make it a bit more confusing if you want. It seems like maybe that's Daggerfall instruction manual stuff though. Still he had an army of daedra and undead so he was definitely doing something. Also the stuff about Mehrunes Dagon being made by the magna-ge, I wonder how that would then relate to Mehrunes Dagon being the leaper demon king. Though looking into that, I thought some of it was in the lessons of vivec but I'm only finding Kirkbride posts about it so I guess leaper demon king is less substantiated than I thought. The biggest pillar I think doesn't work is the fifth one. As from what we know the inhabitants of Nirn are descendents of the ehlnofey. Not daedra created by the daedric prince of Tamriel, but et'ada stuck inside of Nirn who lost immortality over time. There really isn't any sensible way I can think of to connect humans and elves to Lorkhan's life. Though there is the interesting fact that the aedra couldn't destroy the heart of Lorkhan "But when Trinimac and Auriel tried to destroy the Heart of Lorkhan it laughed at them. It said, "This Heart is the heart of the world, for one was made to satisfy the other." So Auriel fastened the thing to an arrow and let it fly long into the sea, where no aspect of the new world may ever find it." That does kind of make it sound like Nirn really is Lorkhan's realm. I wonder if there's anything in the idea of Nirn being Lorkhan's realm, but its inhabitants not being his?
@nataliewolf683
3 ай бұрын
Thank you sm for finding and compiling all of this juicy lore into an awesome video- I’ve always been fascinated by the Mythic Dawn and Camoran, and this definitely tickled the tism 🔥
@ravendelacour1917
3 ай бұрын
Mythic Dawn is the Left Hand Path for Tamriel.
@artemisarrow179
3 ай бұрын
I’d like to see Celia Camoran make an appearance in TES VI She’s mentioned in the Thieves Guild quest about receiving an Elder Scroll
@theemerdareloth
3 ай бұрын
The Camoran family definitely needs to be explored more.
@DaytonaRoadster
Ай бұрын
>makes his own plane just to make it his personal gooncave
@mischiefcal
20 күн бұрын
I really like patriciantv's theory that Mankar used the razor to open the race editor
@unmitigateddisaster3793
Ай бұрын
I don't see the Elder Scrolls Cosmology setup as being necessarily a counterpoint to the idea that Nirn is functionally a plane of Oblivion. This setup would be how the universe is viewed FROM Nirn, with Nirn at it's center and everything else revolving around it. It's the only perspective we get and the only one the player needs. It could easily be that the universe appears in a similar way from every other Plane of Oblivion, with that plane at the 'heart' and the other ones around it in the periphery. Since the Elder Scrolls is a magical universe rather than one of purely physical logic it may not be a valid assumption to assume that the 'physical' setup of the universe from Nirns perspective is necessarily the 'only' or 'true' one.
@Biskmut
3 ай бұрын
This is great. You have a new sub.
@theemerdareloth
3 ай бұрын
Thank you!
@TheInfiniteAmo
15 күн бұрын
Camoran being depicted as an Altmer is probably supposed to represent something similar to the Chimer in-engine. Notably in 'The Changed Ones', the Chimer/Velothi were changed by Boethiah, and of course the Dunmer later took their gray-skinned form from the influence of Azurah. Basically, if Mer are in some sense descendants of Aedra, they can also similarly become the "children" of Daedra. Maybe this is a Merish analogue to Mantling? Consider that Boethiah and Azurah changed the culture and thus naming convention of their Chimer and Dunmer, Dagon changes the nymices of his Mythic Dawn cult, and Talos was Tiber Septim was Hjalti Early-Beard. Very telling, if Camoran was an 'equal' to Dagon and the player is mantling Sheogorath/Jyggalag... As for the Skin of Gold, the conflict happening in the Morrowind backstory and MQ is a shadowplay of the Monomyth in which the Tribunal are the Aedra, Dagoth Ur is Dagon and the Nerevarine is Lorkhan. The Chimer have skin of gold because they are emulating the Aedra, who have true Skin of Gold (sunlight or magicka). This shadowplay is interesting because it suggests a relationship between Lorkhan and Dagon similar to that between Nerevar and Dagoth Ur. Given that Sheogorath/Jyggalag rules over two demi-planes, the idea of Lorkhan/Dagon ruling simultaneously over Lyg/Tamriel is interesting. Tamriel with its towers is to the rest of Nirn as Vvardenfell with its tower is to the rest of Morrowind.
@SHDW-nf2ki
2 ай бұрын
Me as a 12 year old playing Oblivion for the first time: Oh so Mankar is right about the cosmos, but his methods are why he's evil and must be stopped. Everyone else: *multiple decades of study, research and desperate attempts to prove it*
@alasdairmoles9845
Ай бұрын
Is it possible Mantra Camoran was a shezzarine / avatar of Lorkhan? It may explain his longevity and perhaps why he can wear the amulet of kings as Tiber Septim (who had dragons blood) mantled Lorkhan to become Talos. Also it may explain why his followers see him as an equal with mehrunes Dagon and how he changed his appearance using the razor (Lorkhan is affiliated with change after all). Of course he would hate the Aedra for betraying Lorkhan as they destroyed him, and his respect for the Daedra as owners of planes, as he may be with Mundus / Tamriel.
@walnzell9328
2 ай бұрын
Mankar really just said Meridia's plane of Oblivon was Coldharbour. Bros clearly on drugs.
@CherriPicking
Ай бұрын
I think it's obvious that Cameron was used as a pawn by Dagon, but the idea that Lorkan was in fact a Daedric Lord and Nirn his realm is interesting in and of itself. Who knows, maybe it's lies with a sprinkling of truth, the Elder Scrolls is basically just a couple dozen unreliable narrators in a trench coat anyway
@yoloyoloer6503
3 ай бұрын
Peak mythic dawn lore
@allgomesareevil6121
19 күн бұрын
Really liked the format and telling of the lore. Sure, you will come to it at some point, but a topic suggestion The Dark Brotherhood 😇🙏🙏
@Hero_Of_Old
3 ай бұрын
Cameron's speech is probably my favourite thing in TES.
@ChrissieBear
Ай бұрын
This video has converted me to the Mythic Dawn. TAMRIEL AE DAEDROTH!
@justinmacdonald2102
2 ай бұрын
Personally i would have chosen a deadra lord thats more lets say agreeable, maybe with a more chill plane of oblivion but sure mehrunes dagon....
@irisinthedarkworld
2 ай бұрын
this is a great analysis, it's really refreshing to see some new and well-substantiated information and opinion in this space by the way, i think camoran is trying to appear as an ayleid or aldmer rather than an altmer. it would be consistent with his desire to go back to an older state of mundus and his appreciation of ancient elven architecture
@DoctorTooploop
Ай бұрын
seems like mankar looking like an altmer could have been explained more easily by having one altmer parent with some dominant genes instead of all the above
@TreeBeardNero
15 күн бұрын
Who voiced that intro? Sounds exactly like the voice actor for the Prophet of Truth in Halo 3
@jesusthief4420
3 ай бұрын
Very glad I've found your channel. I really like the way you've done this video, hopefully a lot more to come 🙏
@vampirecount3880
Ай бұрын
Mythic Dawn looks like the name of a typical cult of Tzeentch in Warhammer 40k.
@aztecgoldmontizuma
3 ай бұрын
Well I’m convinced. Where do I join?
@adrianaslund8605
Ай бұрын
To be part of it. You must want to "enter your mother". Mankar Camoran says that entering paradise is kind of like entering your mother. I don't know how he got so many people invested in his cult with that.
@bigdaddydons6241
2 ай бұрын
Honestly the joke of you confusing Mankar and Michaels names made all of this make more sense to me?
@supershikoku
Ай бұрын
This is one of the best Oblivion lore videos I've watched! I know I'm late to the party but I just wanted to say what a fantastic job you did here. There's so much interesting stuff beneath Oblivion's jank.
@Netist_
2 ай бұрын
pronouncing an IRC channel with "hashtag" is killing me
@theemerdareloth
2 ай бұрын
@Netist_ IRC was a bit before my time, sorry haha.
@egonomics352
2 ай бұрын
It would've been cool if we could've sided with the Mythic Dawn.
@jupiterrising887
2 ай бұрын
Mankar's race is supposed to be Bosmer but he's Altmer because of a hole in the writing. It can be and is that simple. It happens all the time in the game industry. In the Diablo series, the Khazra "goat men" were supposed to originally be demonic creations of Baal, then in Diablo 2 they were actually mortal mutations both man and goat, and then in Diablo 3, oh wait, now they're the results of actions during the Mage Clan Wars but also they're sort of demons too because of Zagraal. This is because the studios that create these games always have way too many chefs in the kitchen when it comes to their lore, so you end up with holes and inconsistencies.
@woddlyoats
Ай бұрын
Actually he looks more like an aylied.
@gaming_bigfoot
Ай бұрын
Good to hear someone makes use of UESP and not the mess that is the fandom wiki that google loves trying to push at people
@Arsynis
2 ай бұрын
He just wanted someone to ask him what's lygma :(
@theemerdareloth
2 ай бұрын
@@Arsynis Lygma Balls
@averyn34
18 күн бұрын
"What is Lyg?" "LYGMA BALLS GOTCHA"
@Jonas_æ
3 ай бұрын
Love the lore deep dives. I’ll keep watching them if you keep making them.
@theemerdareloth
3 ай бұрын
I'll keep making them if you'll keep watching them, then!
@NikitaOnline17
3 ай бұрын
If Mankar Camoran truly has a nymic then is it not both possible that Tar-Meena is correct he wrote the commentaries during Tiber Septim's time and that the was born into the refugees in his new form?
@theemerdareloth
3 ай бұрын
Interesting point. I don't believe that Daedra are literally born in the way that Mankar was described.
@NikitaOnline17
3 ай бұрын
@@theemerdareloth yeah me neither, but I think it's possible he could be a special case somehow. Like some kind of divine intervention on Dagons part, if there's any kind of precedent for that
@Usako2000
3 ай бұрын
Just found this channel, this is a wonderful video, please do more of these on TES topics :)
@theemerdareloth
3 ай бұрын
Thank you! I have a playlist with a few other lore videos you may enjoy!
@Usako2000
3 ай бұрын
@@theemerdareloth Awesome I'll check them out!
@malk4803
3 ай бұрын
Low key one of the best TES lore videos I've seen! Deep cuts and no superfluous fluff.
@whtwolfgames7983
3 ай бұрын
Can't wait for skyblivion!
@ZachBlackforest
3 ай бұрын
Well, I'm convinced. Gonna join the Mythic Dawn!
@theemerdareloth
3 ай бұрын
I heard they have (eternal) life insurance.
@ZachBlackforest
3 ай бұрын
@@theemerdareloth for real though, ya got me wanting to boot up Oblivion again. Awesome video ya got yourself a subscriber
@willferrous8677
3 ай бұрын
Only 45 minutes long? Damn.
@wuki9780
3 ай бұрын
Amazing Video! Loved the Charakter back in my teens! Thanks for the Lore! Keep up the work! I'd love to see a break down of the Gods and their followings! :D
@thebigdork8030
3 ай бұрын
What are your thoughts on Duke of Whale's theory about the Mythic Dawn? I'm paraphrasing but basically he wondered if there was a false populism element to the cult, as most of the cultists are in the lower level of society and citizens feeling abandoned by their leaders enough to join a cult ties into the empire's decline even before Uriel's death.
@theemerdareloth
3 ай бұрын
I've never heard that theory, but I agree. Cults in real life are often the same way - predatory on the disillusioned or ostracized. The Mythic Dawn, in particular, gives people some semblance of purpose in their lives and promises a special place in "Paradise." It really is a very well constructed cult.
@anonim4102
2 ай бұрын
Are there more lore videos you plan to make?
@theemerdareloth
2 ай бұрын
@anonim4102 Currently working on an Elden Ring video, and once that's finished I have a video on the Thalmor coming out in the next month or so. Stay tuned!
@anonim4102
2 ай бұрын
@@theemerdareloth thank you for reply
@feragosmyxixarashtra7948
6 күн бұрын
20:46 One Thing that I believe might be more or less the Reason how He can be Centuries before His Birth is that by altering His Nymic He assumed the Nymic or Part of it of a Previous Person or Entity that *was* actually contemporary with Tiber Septim. So although the Bosmer which would become the Altmer Mankar Camoran was born much later, in a Way a Part of what He would become already existed Long before His Birth. Just saying I don't know if any of this makes any Sense, but this is a Theory I came up with on the Spot. Also what could alternatively be the Case is that this Argonian is just Wrong lol. People make Mistakes or get Dates and Facts wrong sometimes.
@DoctorDoubt
3 ай бұрын
I always appreciate when you bring in Elder Scrolls Legends content to help your theory's. I feel it gives you a unique perspective and evidence. I don't see Lore videos from more established channels referencing Legends very often. This video was so good I just want to add a reminder your still mortal. At 42:42 there's two small typos..
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