Damn it Undone, you're too good for youtube, love this video!
@hiflyer53qwc
5 жыл бұрын
agreed!!!
@dylanjamesfilms
4 жыл бұрын
Second that
@cameraconspiracies
5 жыл бұрын
Makes me want to film in 24p now :)
@geraldundone
5 жыл бұрын
As soon as you do, I'll switch to 30p just to mess with ya.
@elcasanelles5806
5 жыл бұрын
you need to find the perfect camera first....
@laudankirk6168
5 жыл бұрын
Find a good camera but spend on a better lens. ;)
@blammo8208
5 жыл бұрын
@@geraldundone lol got em !
@bryanauer
5 жыл бұрын
LOL love that you watch Gerald too. Just know that on this platform, 24p is missing the mark! You need to start a 3rd KZitem Channel called "24p Conspiracies"
@GermanViking
5 жыл бұрын
I can't believe that I've been following your channel for more than a year and I missed this video... You just answer my biggest questions about those F***ing jitters I have with my 24p footage. Thank you bro.
@geraldundone
5 жыл бұрын
Glad to hear it! Thanks for saying so. Cheers!
@murillomr7
4 жыл бұрын
The same here!! So it's not my gimbal, or my hands shaking?! Why nobody told me that earlier. Maybe after you Gerald!! Thanks a lot!
@PatrickN.
4 жыл бұрын
I will second that! If it weren't for Undone, we all would be still SO frustrated! Nobody but him explains this for some reason.
@robwasnj
5 жыл бұрын
Videos like this make youtube great, thanks for taking the time to enlighten us in such a clear concise manner along with visual examples. Very well done!
@djepodjepo
2 жыл бұрын
The only thing that is not explained: how do all the ‘cinematic’ shooters (24fps) combine their footage with 60 and 120fps. Are they switching continuously and do they know before editing what framerate they will use. Because for me, sometimes I decide only in post if the shot is realtime or slowmotion. That means that I have to shoot at at least 60fps. But if you shoot 24fps default, that is hard because I cant combine those… what are your thoughts?!
@kasperdalkarl
3 жыл бұрын
Nice video, thanks! And it all gets weirder when we in Europe generally use 25p and 50p.
@PapeSan
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you for everything you’re doing for us Gerald ! I would gladly pay if someday you have online classes or ebooks ;)
@newgame909
3 жыл бұрын
He sells merchandise 😉
@diman4010
5 жыл бұрын
Thank you! Thank you for providing me the video, that I can share now with "filmakers" on KZitem instead of trying over and over again (with no luck) raise that 24 fps judder problem. Your video is the only one on entire KZitem which explains almost all disadvantages of messing up with ramertes. Trust me, I tried many time to find some decent one with no luck. Just a bunch of bullshoot about "dreamy look" of 24 fps which is not the same "dreamy look" that we have with a cinema projector, at all... But did I miss something or you really didn't mention that 60 fps footage conformed to 30 fps timeline has not the same amount of motion blur as 30 fps footage (in case of using 180 degree shutter rule for every frame rate of course). But, anyway, please keep shooting in 24. Your content looks perfect at 1.25x speed, which is 30 fps ;) Man, I really think that your channel is one of most underrated channels on KZitem now, but you are killing it! Keep it up!
@remektekmedia6641
5 жыл бұрын
Excellent video with great explanation demos. However you forgot that a large part of the world has PAL and 50 fps, so we shoot at either 25 fps or 50 fps. Your explanations are easy to adapt, so I am very glad I watched your video. Thanks a heap.
@erdemphotography5976
5 жыл бұрын
30P - 24P (80%) 60P - 24P (40%) 120P- 24P (20%)
@davidck2456
5 жыл бұрын
cant you just drop 120p on 24p timeline? I mean, 120 is evenly divisible by 24 (120/24 = 5). So you just use every fifth frame.
@FLYRTA
5 жыл бұрын
Then just shoot in 24fps if you want it at 1:1 speed. If you want 5x slow then use 120fps
@supakul.4487
5 жыл бұрын
@@davidck2456 Yeah you can, just keep in mind that your Shutterspeed will be much faster at 1/250 instead of 1/48 or 1/50. That results in less motionblur and can look "skippy" on your 24p timeline :)
@HuyRebel
4 жыл бұрын
Supakul. So not double shutter When higher fps?😁
@louisrodriguez1608
4 жыл бұрын
If i have 24fps clip on timeline and 30fps to slow motion, i need to slow at 80%?
@The-Logician
5 жыл бұрын
Great job. I hope this video brings you another 5000 subs by itself..... this should be required viewing by the way.
@worldaviation4k
2 жыл бұрын
Question: i put a 120fps aircraft video on timelime. Then added a pilot/tower audio recorder separately and lined it up to where i hear the people talking to coincide with when the aircraft exits the runway and the speech. Its correct at the last 15 minutes end at least for 10 mins but when i go to the beginning it seems to be like 5 mins off.
@marcgambardella5681
2 жыл бұрын
But what framerate timeline did you drop it in to?
@saravanapriyan9634
5 жыл бұрын
I always wonder why my 4k 30p stutters ! Thanks for the video. Now I get the science behind stuttering.
@dunnadidit
5 жыл бұрын
I fully expected you to say... “today’s video is going to look different because I tied my hair back”
@geraldundone
5 жыл бұрын
Hahaha! I love it. Kinda wish I would have done that and then said, "Nah, just kidding, it's because I'm shooting in 60p!"
@mhzque1304
5 жыл бұрын
what if i shoot 25fps and drop into a 24fps timeline, will there be any effect even thought is 1 frame different?. Thanks for the information about frame rates.
@Nick-yo1te
2 жыл бұрын
seriously, just want you to know that there are people out here that are so very thankful for your in depth reviews, breakdowns, and info. You are a godsend to the community. We look forward to every video and tweet you put out, because we push hard to be professional and have a professional understanding of our equipment and how to use it, and you save us time, and effort, which in turn saves us money.
@MarfoogleTV
3 жыл бұрын
You are a freak Gerald! And the only freak I watch. Is thier any video you have NOT done? Rhis was so incredibly helpful
@lugail46
5 жыл бұрын
Oh wow this is actually the sort of stuff that could get in handy in the future and i really didn't expect this i kinda watched this because i was bored and this seemed abit interesting but it's very interesting good job Gerald!
@wellinspired4657
5 жыл бұрын
I have a question in terms of shooting dance videos. The pans aren't as fast so I shoot in 60fps but drop it on a 24/25fps timeline. Im going for a music video aesthetic, but the videos uploaded on youtube tend to be pixelated than before uploaded. Should I just have a 60fps timeline? and does youtube not like PAL (25fps), which is why youtube pixelizes the videos. There is still a lot for me to learn and this video was really close for me to finding out the answer.
@apxph6245
5 жыл бұрын
Bro, thank you for clearing up the 40% speed for 60 fps, this helped a lot.
@chrisbrockhurst
5 жыл бұрын
Found you from Dunna Did it! You have some crazy useful videos Gerald, great work sir!
@geraldundone
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks, Chris! I'm happy to hear they're useful. Glad you came over. 😃🙏
@CeriousProductions
5 жыл бұрын
I honestly had no clue Panning speed was a factor. I've had a few 60fps clips that had a little stutter and I never knew why... But this explains it all. Thank you So much for this video.
@geraldundone
5 жыл бұрын
My pleasure! Thanks for the comment.
@salvadorvizcarra769
6 ай бұрын
Mire usted. Dejémonos de tonterías. Las imágenes videograbadas con una cámara, en el formato 4K, solamente se pueden apreciar si las vemos en un televisor de plasma de 75' a 90' pulgadas. Si queremos ver nuestros videos de 4K en un televisor más pequeño o, peor, en la pantalla de una Laptop, se van a mirar horrendas. En estos casos el 4K no funciona. Sale contraproducente. Ahora bien, si acaso queremos videograbar nuestros recuerdos de turismo, en 1080p, o en 2K... ¡Perfecto! Eso resulta sobradamente conveniente. De hecho, no se puede distinguir la calidad entre una imagen 1080p y otra 2K. Son lo mismo. Y se aprecian con tremenda calidad tanto en una TV de plasma normal, grande o enorme. Por otra parte, los videos tomados en una resolución de 720p, son buenísimos. Solamente un ojo profesional y entrenado puede distinguir un 720p de un 1080p, incluso hasta de un 2K. Finalmente: En todos los casos (720p, 1080p, 2K o 4K), es recomendable hacerlo en 30fps o en 60fps. Sólo se debe usar el 120fps, si acaso se está filmando eventos de movimiento rápido: Una carrera de autos, o de caballos, un juego de baloncesto o de futbol o de tenis, etc. En mi caso particular, yo filmo mis paseos turísticos en 1080p con 30fps. Usar una mayor resolución, en mi caso, NO aumenta la calidad en las imágenes y si en cambio, agota el espacio útil de mi tarjeta SanDisk. O sea que, los 1080p con 30fps (o incluso con 60fps), son más que suficientes para todo.
@benjamindegroot8314
4 жыл бұрын
I've been shooting in 24p my whole career for no reason other than "it looks more cinematic", but I often run into the stuttering issue that you talk about with moving shots. Your insight on what happens when you view 24p content on a 60hz display was new information to me and you may have convinced me to change my standard frame rate...
@MrRoskoPeko
Жыл бұрын
Same!
@djentlover
Жыл бұрын
Yeah, I don't see the point of using 24fps if you're not producing mainly for cinema. 30fps or 60fps is the future.
@xj3130
3 жыл бұрын
10:45 The 24p footage on 24p timeline 100% speed looks a bit smoother than 24p footage on 60p timeline 100% speed. But why is that if this entire video is 60p?
@fjodorf7341
5 жыл бұрын
tfw when you’re on a european 50hz display and even the first "smooth" video is stuttering... can’t get it right for everybody!
@alex.muntean
4 жыл бұрын
I am on a Macbook Pro and it stutters on 50Hz and 60Hz display refresh rate...
@vladoperic236
3 жыл бұрын
I have this problem right now. I am editing a music video where the singing scenes were shot in 25fps. As it is a music video, audio is very important so my base frame rate HAS TO BE those 25 fps. But I have some drone shots that were shot at 30fps. And when I divide 25/30, I get 0.8333333333333etc. So NOT a whole number (or whatever the mathematical term is), so there isn't really a percentage in which I can slow it down to be mathematically correct. I tried the interpreting footage option in premiere pro to a 25fps, but I still don't have smooth motion. I really don't know what the best option is in this case.
@colbewells1487
Жыл бұрын
You sir have just helped me with one of the biggest issues I've been facing as a newcomer on the video scene, and one that has been impossible to explain to other people as to why it looks bad when looking for help. Thank you!
@akushon_kamen
3 жыл бұрын
What if, i crank up my shutter speed to 1/125 on camera, will it compensate the jittery movement on the footage when i forced optical flow on 30fps to 60fps on post editing process?
@tusslemania
5 жыл бұрын
officially my favorite resource for valuable cinematography information. i swear its like you read my mind on topics I've been contemplating. brilliance as usual gerald
@geraldundone
5 жыл бұрын
Awesome! I'm glad to hear that. Thanks for saying so. 😃🙏
@Navs_Music
11 ай бұрын
Can someone clarify on this question: In sony A7iv we have recording frame rate & shooting frame rate. If I set the rec.frame rate to 24 & shooting frame rate at 60 fps does is still cause some shoppy footage in 1080P 24 timeline? I'm confused here & hope someone can reply me on this. Thanks in advance!
@TheCruisinCrew
3 жыл бұрын
Man, you really demystified these frame rate issues for me in this video! I always thought my camera or editing software had bugs because I couldn't seem get smooth pans even with a gimbal... I will do some more tests with slower pans and frame rate settings!
@kostasrestas
4 ай бұрын
what % speed duration i need for 60fps to slow it at 25fps properly ????????
@JeremyRatzlaff
5 жыл бұрын
Wowsers. I have no idea how you do it, but you just made something that I've known intuitively for the past ten years suddenly make sense to me and it feels amazing. Cheers to this incredible channel of content.
@geraldundone
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks for this, Jeremy! That's a great compliment and I really appreciate it. Cheers! 😃🙏
@Wonderfield
3 жыл бұрын
wooow. was 9.9k likes and i clicked and hit 10k!! hahaha , i feel special :D awesome vid btw!!
@przybylskipawel
3 жыл бұрын
Great content! And what about 25p/50p? I am from EU, we have 50Hz mains here and to avoid flicker from artificial fight sources I use 25p. How should I deal with movement? Just by using 25p timeline? Would it be detrimental to the look of the footage on 60Hz displays?
@tomastuoma
2 жыл бұрын
Pretty much everyone on Europe uses 25p. 24 is for Americans, and not something you should think about unless producing content for american cinema.
@branbroken
2 жыл бұрын
@@tomastuoma id clarify slightly. Yes 25/50 is european PAL standard. But US uses 30/60 NTSC not 24. Both of these are TV standards. 24 is the cinema/film standard and is used worldwide. Ironically 24 was chosen for film purely as a comprimise of cost and just enough motion to look natural, and now its stuck just because thats what people are used to. Just look at how much people were annoyed at the hobbit when it used 48 and complaind it didnt look right.
@GraphicMill
5 жыл бұрын
Well Done!! Gerald, you’re putting out excellent material!! You nailed a huge issue and explained it perfectly! I’ll be sharing this one for sure. “All Right” 👍
@geraldundone
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks a bunch! Happy to hear that. 😃🙏
@380stroker
5 жыл бұрын
Is that you Fred?
@mihaelagimlin
5 жыл бұрын
I've been looking for this information for a while and finally found it in this video. Huge thank you!
@markchen4381
4 жыл бұрын
Hey Gerald, could you cover a comparison video of 23.97 fps and 24 fps. Is there a difference? Why should we choose one over the other? My fuji Xt3 has the option of shooting both. I normally choose 24 because it's rounded off and it's what is often spoken of in the industry. But honestly I cannot tell the difference between the two and it has always been a topic that needed clarity and cannot seem to find a video on KZitem that covers this clearly enough.
@elcasanelles5806
5 жыл бұрын
You have a way on making videos that are useful to me. Well that came out a bit narcissistic but you probably know what I mean.
@geraldundone
5 жыл бұрын
Haha. That's a good thing! I'm glad they're useful. Thanks for saying so. 😃👍
@DavWoe
5 жыл бұрын
What's about 25fps timeline?
@bjrndyresen147
5 жыл бұрын
I soo like your content. You just cut through all the clutter and misinformation out there. For someone who works as a developer, I really like how you are so well-researched on the subject and presents it in a methodical and scientifically way.
@geraldundone
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks a lot! That's really kind. I'm glad you're loving the content. Cheers!
@MrTRA504
2 ай бұрын
60p all the way ! 😁 you just need a gaming pc to edit 😉
@EposVox
5 жыл бұрын
Ayyyyyyyyyy
@djepodjepo
2 жыл бұрын
So in this video can we interpret 23.98 and 59.98 as being 24 and 60?
@Albovsky
3 жыл бұрын
Well, as far as I know for FCPX users you can use Optical Flow option while mixing frame rates on a timeline. It basically creates new frames in between in order to make footage as smooth as possible.
@NirnBootMod
4 жыл бұрын
Unfortunately I have a problem where my crappy B Cam only shoots 60p and my A Cam is 23.976... so I just have to deal with it looking horrible until I get a new B Cam, because I can't slow down the footage due to the nature of the project. I am wondering which Time Interpolation I should use for the 60p clips though; frame sampling, frame blending, or optical flow. I tested all 3 and can't really tell a difference... maybe because the B Cam is a camcorder with shitty footage.
@jairolcalvomunoz
Жыл бұрын
Could you solve it? I have a similar problem. I have 3 different clips with 3 different frame rates, 23.976fps, 24fps and 25fps. The clip in 23.976fps is drone footage from a DJI Mavic Air and the other 2 are from a BMPCC 4K
@laudankirk6168
5 жыл бұрын
Oh my gosh, I want to just give you a cyber hug from here! I made a huge newbie mistake of filming A roll in 24 fps, and then experimenting with 60 fps with my B roll shots. Went to edit and had such bad quality of lagging (thought it was my computer at first). This helped me fix my errors when bringing footage into the timeline and I learned a valuable lesson on why all frame rates need to be similar. I also did some fraction/percentages with 24fps/60 fps to slow down footage to 40% in my 24 fps timeline- not perfect but I will make it work. Thank you so much. A time waster for me, but a lesson I will not forget! Thanks for posting great teaching content.
@NARFALICIOUS
5 жыл бұрын
Gerald, sometimes I see B-roll where it looks normal speed, then slowed down mid clip. like a reverse speed ramp. im guessing they had to use 60 or 120 on a 24fps timeline. how could they do this without getting the jutter? did i not notice the jutter?
@geraldundone
5 жыл бұрын
It depends on the camera movement. If they moved slowly or didn't make many camera moves you wouldn't see the judder.
@KevinFedde
5 жыл бұрын
Don't know if anyone else has commented about it yet, but I think that I prefer using the "interpret footage" method of slowing down, only because it still allows you to apply post-stabilization to the footage in an easier way than just using the "speed/Duration" dialogue box. Doesn't matter too much if you don't need warp stabilizer, for sure, but for some clips even 1% can add a lot without making it look weird.
@DavidRodriguez7
5 жыл бұрын
Can't you just nest the clip and then just as easily add the warp stabilizer to it??
@DavidRodriguez7
5 жыл бұрын
@witless X Correct! Do you consider that as a bad thing?
@segatronmedia
Жыл бұрын
kzitem.info/news/bejne/kZCgs4V6nGOaZoY& can somebody tell me why this 24P film footage footage looks just fine in this clearly edited in 60P video
@JaronLatona
Жыл бұрын
Good example, would like to know as well.
@phildoodler2199
5 жыл бұрын
That was interesting. I've learned something here.
@Hazardteam
4 жыл бұрын
I dunno why but i always got 'lagy' (or 'delayed') 60 FPS with Davinci Resolve when i try to make quake videos (what recording to TGA image sequence 60 FPS) It's very noticeable for me, compare to TMPGenc video mastering works for example (that has much smoother FPS with same image sequence, but.. can't do color grading well with it :( )
@gyasis
5 жыл бұрын
You have been putting out some of most o informative info on KZitem....seriously. Many, thanks. Now I can reason out what frame rates to assign to my memory presets and when to use them
@EL.BARTON
3 жыл бұрын
So, if I have some footage in 23,976, some footage in real 24, and one drone shot in 29,976 and I wanna do one video with all of these footage, what can I do for smooth result? What timeline and export fps settings do you recommend? Thanks a lot.
@jairolcalvomunoz
Жыл бұрын
Could you solve it? I have a similar problem. I have 3 different clips with 3 different frame rates, 23.976fps, 24fps and 25fps. The clip in 23.976fps is drone footage from a DJI Mavic Air and the other 2 are from a BMPCC 4K
@samtang
5 жыл бұрын
In order for my brain not to explode. I had to reduce the playback speed of your video. Thank you for adding so much value to KZitem and the earth in general. I'm learning so much on your channel man! Never stop undoing ❤️
@larbueno
Жыл бұрын
I'm with you on this. Gerald's brain works so FAST and somehow his mouth keeps up!!!
@WorldTravelingCouple
5 жыл бұрын
Many thanks Gerald. I am a bit confused in FCPX with option for 24p vs 23.98p, which is the better choice?
@arantesFilms
5 жыл бұрын
Nice tutorial. Thanks
@GeraldBertramPhotography
5 жыл бұрын
How about that shout-out from Hugh over at Three Blind Men And An Elephant! kzitem.info/news/bejne/z6WssIauh4GAiXo From one Gerald to another, you are killing it man!
@geraldundone
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks for looking out! I went over to Hugh's channel to say thanks. And thanks for your comment as well. Cheers, Gerald! 😃🙏
@stellaq3306
5 жыл бұрын
Very, very excellent info Cheers heaps 👍
@BeauHannamGuitars
2 жыл бұрын
Instead of slowing 30fps down 20% in a 24fps timeline, would speeding up 24fps 10% AND slowing down 30fps 10% work better (smoother)??
@avalanwa
5 жыл бұрын
This guy ups my game, everytime. #UnDone
@ISRAADVISUALS
4 жыл бұрын
Pls reply to me I was a editing a music video which was shot entirely on 60fps. So i edited it on a 60 fps timeline..but i want to get the cinematic 24fps. If i choose to export my final sequence in 24 fps will it affect my audio sync? Will anything bad happen? Looking forward for your reply thanks
@CristyandSal
5 жыл бұрын
Thank you for this, you did such a great job! You explained it in a clear and concise manner that finally made sense to me.
@MattEldridgeFilm
5 ай бұрын
Am I lost? Its a great video but why are we relating it to panning speed and saying we need to change our pan speed to account for different frames rates? You're always going to be panning at different speeds depending on your subject which is ever changing. I'm confused why we had to bring pan speed into all of this lol.
@oneeyedphotographer
5 жыл бұрын
PAL and 50, 25 FPS? Most of the world doesn't use NTSC,
@kostasrestas
4 ай бұрын
yeap ! what % speed duration i need for 60fps to slow it at 25fps properly ???
@TheMattJames
3 жыл бұрын
PLEASE do a video on shooting in 60p and editing on a 24p vs 30p timeline. SO many people do this but there is not a SINGLE video out there highlighting this...!?
@krazyfrog
5 жыл бұрын
As a fan of the 60p aesthetic, I wish more people used it on KZitem. The only time I can tolerate 24p is in movies that are projected in theaters because it's being displayed correctly and it contributes to the look we have come to associate with cinema. I don't get why KZitemrs use 24p though as most of the content creators produce nothing that's particularly cinematic and the odd frame rate means there are 3:2 pull down issues on standard 60Hz displays. I liked the look of this video despite the higher noise (which I didn't really notice). Would kinda like to see all future videos in 60p.
@geraldundone
5 жыл бұрын
Great points. I think for me I'd probably meet you in the middle at 30p. It helps with a lot of the issues, but doesn't have as many efficiency downsides to 60p. And it will work nicely on the web. It will take some getting used to though. As with anything. 😃
@finnillson4808
5 жыл бұрын
Here are my thoughts on this. Take them with a grain of salt. I believe cinema has done a really good job of selling the whole 24p looks more “cinematic” than anything else. But a lot of it is perceived because we are told it’s more “cinematic”. If they decided 30fps (instead of 24; they used 24 to save in film costs) was the standard for cinema people would associate seeing in the theater and it would be the “cinematic” frame rate. The opposite is with sports. 24p is considered junk and everybody wants 60p and they don’t complain about the soap opera effect at all because that’s what people think sports “should” look like. But then, there are the folks who say 24fps has a physiological effect on our brain and this and that about dreams and what not...it gets kinda crazy. I prefer 30 most of the time and use 24 when I want to impart some kind of extra, dreamy cinematic feel for artistic reasons (also 30p doesn’t have much data burden over 24 anyway). I don’t get the whole you must shoot 24 to be cinematic. No, you should cinematic scenes to be well....cinematic as long as you stay under 48fps is a good rule of thumb. Anyway rambling rant over.
@aLgProduction
5 жыл бұрын
Lol
@SCrowley91
5 жыл бұрын
You should really watch the video he linked, it gives a REALLY good explination of why we probably won't ever see 60p movies; in short, it's more expensive, more time consuming, more storage, and doesn't really offer any solid benefit. On the other hand, I'd aruge that 24p will become much more enjoyable as 120hz displays become more common, because, contrary to what this video said ALL it has to do is just... not update the screen 4/5ths of the time. It's basically a perfect playback, which was actually part of the reason for choosing 120hz, since it's the smallest framerate that both 60p and 24p divide into. (and it helps that US power is 60hz) The bigger issue is that, right now, only the GH5, (and cameras based on it, like the G9 and GH5) and XT3 can film in 4k 60p, AT ALL. And even on these cameras, you give up something for it; Panasonic cameras can't do it while doing autofocus, (IIRC) plus you give up the 4:2:2 option to do it. That means that only a very small percentage of people can even shoot it to begin with. That's ignoring the fact that it takes more than twice as long to process and upload. Plus it's more storage used up, and all of that for... very little gain to the majority of people. You'd have to buy a specific camera, and give up certain features, (autofocus/subsampling for the Panasonic or the full-width sensor readout for the XT3) that make it a huge pain, even if you had all the processing power and storage in the world. Most people will choose 10bit, 4:2:2, or 4k over 60p. In fact, I'd say nearly everyone on KZitem would or already has. When every camera has 4k 60p, you'll start seeing some people using it, but by then, there's a decent chance that Sony will have released a 8k or 6k camera, based on the sensors that they've announced. Even though I think anything past 4k is really REALLY pushing the limits of actual perception, I still think many people will choose that over the higher framerates. Higher framerates will be saved for use as slow-mo, as they are now. Again, I recommend that you watch the video by Filmmaker IQ, it gives a VERY strong breakdown of all the reasons why it's unlikely that 60p will ever become the norm for anything other than sports.
@MatiasRispau
5 жыл бұрын
@@finnillson4808 Is not that you should listen to what they say about using 24fps as a rule, you can shoot a film in any frame rate you want. For cinema DCPs now support a lot of speeds. For me personally it comes from a place i'm used to, have worked in that frame rate for years since film, and i like the feel. I'm not saying all that thing about feeling like a dream, but 24fps(or similar like 30) are more stroboscopic, less "real" and i think what it makes it suit better for fiction/drama, because it doesn't feel real, and maybe (just maybe) it improves the narrative experience. but it comes all boil to the type of content you wanna make, maybe you want to do a more "realistic" and visceral approach to war, then maybe 60p could enhance the experience. My point is, its a matter of choosing the right "look" for the type of content and feel you want to transmit.
@guerrerosdigitales
4 жыл бұрын
@Gerald, so you shoot your KZitem videos at 60FPS? I heard many youtubers suggesting we should use 24 since it is more cinematic, but to be honest I don't like it as much for your type of videos. Another youtuber says 60 is much better although most ppl are not use to it.
@DelvingDeeper
5 жыл бұрын
Hey, Gerald. Just a quick response to the recommendation you made. I went to the video Filmmaker IQ made and found plenty of flaws in it which I think you might be interested in. I'm speaking from the point of a cognitive scientist with about 23 years in gaming (most of them on high - not the highest though, never went pr0 - level of competitive gaming) who also happens to be interested in videography/making youtube videos and the technology behind it. I know it's a long read but I hope it interests you. Oh and I just copy/pasted it so it's not directly addressed towards you xD... OR IS IT?!?! *TUM-DUM-DUM-DUM* Also your video is as always a great watch and a food for thought! TL;DR: About 40% of their video is rubbish from a scientific POV. I have no problems with 24FPS but I found more than a few problems with your arguments there and your line of reasoning. 1st. There are plenty of studies that have proven that frame rate is perceived at a way higher rate than 24/30 or for that matter 60 and humans do react to it. And how would you quantify if there is an actual reaction or not? Through video games of course as that would eliminate what you called a meth induced excitement. Just to name one study off the top of my head - "On frame rate and player performance in first person shooter games". I was part of (both as an experimenter and a participant) two additional studies but their focus was entirely different. However they never got published, first and foremost because not all cognitive studies made by students are worth publishing and second and most important, because the speed at which a particular frame appeared was a factor that ultimately destroyed the persons hypothesis. Frame rate can and is perceived at a higher rate than what we usually consume. In fact our reality constantly tests us on that. 2nd. You said in Myth #3 that motion pictures were meant to be experienced as a "fluid motion" and not still frames and then went on to say in Myth #7 that higher frame rate provides an OBJECTIVELY smoother look but then went on to play semantics with the word "better" and "objectively". How would one rank in order which is better? Through subjective experiences. How are objective truths about our perception extrapolated? Through a collection of subjective experiences filtered through a scientific method and put through statistical methods and replications. Now... If we come back to point one or for that matter your claim that higher frame rate is smoother it's only logical to go one step further and claim that 60FPS is BETTER than 24FPS in at least one aspect for example. You really need to hash out these logical discrepancies in such videos. It's easy to spot on and quite dishonest from intellectual point of view whether intended or not. When it comes to your argument of preference. 24FPS has historically been a standard and "suffers" (not really as we all enjoy it) from what is known in the scientific community as "reinforcement of perception". There are plenty of studies about that phenomenon about most of our senses and some even go further about things such as inference etc. Look it up! 3rd. And I know I’m going backwards but in Myth #4 (not even going to say a lot about how the claim is “Higher frame rate has health benefits over 24 fps” and you then follow up with the logical fallacy that people watching 24 FPS didn’t experience adverse effects… this is not how “benefits” work. If you are not doing push-ups, your chest muscles won’t magically shrink unless you are tied to a bed and never use them at all, but if you DO push-ups they will get stronger. Not sure if I conveyed my point the best way but it’s not that important either)… Anyways in Myth #4 you claim that Trumbull’s team are not scientists and there isn’t a mention of study groups etc. Barring the fact that you barely provide any evidence for the claims in this video, as far as I know when it comes to such “studies” made by Hollywood companies (or at least funded by them), they usually focus on questionnaires as well as the data they gathered and very rarely publish their findings. Now I know that it’s a wild claim to jump from what they tested to “HFR is beneficial to your health” (they also never made that claim, YOU did and again it is a flaw of your own logic) but at the very least it begs the question “Is HFR more exciting to watch?” to which the answer is probably yes. At least from the explanation of how it was conducted it seems they did actually have control groups (hence the different frame rates), the equipment used was adequate (I was a cognitive scientist so take my word for it, especially since you seem to struggle with pronouncing the name of some of it - I am not making fun of you, just pointing out the fact that you probably lack the knowledge of what this equipment measures and how it operates). And last but not least when you file a patent such as this it is reviewed by a commission that must have experts in the field. If this patent was approved, that gives these statements at least some credibility although replication is a must for sure and I personally could not find the study or “replicants” (did you catch the ref.?), or for that matter the patent information. As I said though… Your logic is deeply flawed there. Also… That joke about meth… I know it’s meant as a joke but it has nothing to do with any of the things you said before that and when you are using it to actually “diminish” Trumbull’s statements it lands really flat especially when you take into consideration that THERE IS as I stated a mention of control groups and methodology. What you managed to accomplish there was to shine a brighter light on the fact that you lack basic understanding of how a scientific study is conducted or if that is not the case “dishonesty” which imo is worse. Just something to think about. Now… This post is getting quite large and you probably will never read it so I will stop here. If you do read please note that it wasn’t written with ill-intent although part of my remarks had teeth. However I do feel very strongly about some of the topics you brought up and the way you tried to pass some of your claims as “OBJECTIVE” truths when they were anything but that. Last but not least when you are making claims such as "How quickly we respond to visual stimuli:" followed by age, etc., probably links or at least mentions of the studies would be great. I know it's a bit nit-picky since some of these have been replicated quite a lot and should be common knowledge but still. If you are making a video that tries to be "scientific" and educational (which based on the category you placed it under it should be) you need to act like it IS a scientific video => References!
@geraldundone
5 жыл бұрын
Hey! Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I appreciate your in-depth analysis. I understand where you're coming from. I agree that their video isn't perfect and some of the arguments are definitely weaker than others, but I do think his reasons for 24p staying are pretty compelling and that's mostly what I tuned in for. Overall, I just found it to be an interesting video that tackled a lot of the common arguments. I do agree with you, however, that higher frame rates are definitely perceptible beyond what was given credit for. I'm basing that on my own experience. As far the "health benefit" factor, I'll defer to you, because I have no credentials to be speaking on that subject. Also, thanks for the kind words about my video. Cheers! 👍😃
@DelvingDeeper
5 жыл бұрын
@@geraldundone One of the best arguments for 24p is actually one provided in your video and it is the one about noise reduction. It isn't about processing power anymore as higher FPS doesn't hit performance as hard as resolution for example. Obviously on a production scale it is different but the advancements in computing have been much larger than the advancements of what a sensor is capable of. And I'm not sure this is something their video touched upon so another point for you ^^. Also glad you managed to read through my short-story there xD and keep it up. Oh... and I'm sure a lot of people appreciate your engagement with the community so keep it up! It's really refreshing to have a conversation with the creator.
@pedzsan
5 жыл бұрын
@@DelvingDeeper Hi... can I change the subject? You (Delving) seem to maybe know. The rule of thumb in video is the shutter speed should be 1/2 of the frame rate. Why? It seems like to get proper motion blur, you would want the shutter to be as close to the frame rate (or 1/frame rate) as possible. With today's digital cameras, there isn't a mechanical reason to have the shutter be open just half the time and closed half the time. Has this been studied?
@DelvingDeeper
5 жыл бұрын
@@pedzsan From purely technical point Gerald would be more informed on this. I just watch a lot of videos because I'm curious but I don't have as much experience with actually shooting stuff. I believe he even mentioned it in a few videos before but the general rule of thumb is that the SS should be twice as much as the FR to achieve a normal look, otherwise it either gets "dreamy" if it's below the x2 or it gets like in Gladiator. Perception-wise motion blur has been studied and I could recall at least one article I've read about it but I'm not sure if it is exactly relevant to your question. As it relates to the perception of blur in general and isn't related to movies. There might be a study out there relating to how we perceive motion blur in movies but it would require a really complex methodology. Usually blur studies are done with either pictures (which isn't relevant to your question) or moving bars with added blur at different speeds in order to eliminate any external factors. When it comes to how we register complex images though I'm afraid I haven't read enough on the topic but I did a quick search just now and I wasn't able to find that much. My speculation is... And this is purely speculation with barely any scientific data to back it up other than common knowledge about how we perceive things... It has to do something with a sort of an "before/after-image" effect. Your visual cortex which is essentially located at the back of your brain is obviously spatially disassociated from your eyes (a fancy way of saying it's not right next to them). So try to imagine it as a pipeline. From the time photons hit your retina and reach the visual cortex there is about .1s to .2s. Now… By the time an image gets processed by the brain and you actually “see” an image, another one is already fed into that pipeline but the thing is our brain doesn’t just process the data it receives. It’s actually a prediction machine so it predicts what the next image will be based on the information of the previous one in order to speed up processing in general. If a prediction matches then good. An image is nice and sharp and all is good. That usually happens when there are little discrepancies between Image a) and Image b) (slow moving things) If the prediction is bad then the image gets distorted, hence the blur. Also our eyes do these rapid movements called saccades that are essentially micro-adjustments that would produce a different image than the one before if we were to experience things one image at a time. This usually helps offset motion blur as essentially your eyes never lose track of the moving object in your field of view. Now the time between one saccade and the other is roughly .2s. Not going to get into the nitty-gritty about it all but just imagine these as points on a picture that move rapidly and wherever the point is, that’s where your focus is. So you get a stream if information and then it cuts and goes to another stream of information. Like blinking but we can't exactly perceive it. We have measured it however. Just google saccades . So if you kind of combine these things you get something like this. A saccade would be a dot and the image processing would be a line okay? .--.--.--. Now this is obviously not the exact ratio but a camera does something similar with FPS and SS. So let’s take 12FPS and use them as one unit and it would be a line. The SS is essentially your camera blinking and cutting to stream of information (that’s why we split the 24FPS into 2 units) so it would correspond to the saccades that cut the stream of information from one image to the other. So Shutter Speed would be the dots. And so this would look something like this: .--.--.--. So essentially the speculation is that the x2 ratio preserves our internal ratio. Not sure if I explained it properly or if I even have the right idea (again… this is SPECULATION) but it’s 2AM here and I’m at work and haven’t slept in a while so that’s the best I can do for you xD. Hope it answers your question.
@pedzsan
5 жыл бұрын
@@DelvingDeeper Thanks! You mentioned gaming so I thought you might have some graphics in your back ground. I'm a computer geek and I have friends deep into graphics but I never got that deep into it. Back around 1985 or so, what became Pixar (I think the place was called Lucas Arts? -- I had a friend working there) there was a paper in ACM about motion blur in graphics. So I would suspect that the graphics guys (the guys who write game engines and hard core movie effects engines) would know what their industry uses but it may not be based upon any human perception experiments. You mentioned something I had forgotten (or perhaps mis-remember)... Original movies used 12 FPS to get smooth motion and each frame was flashed twice to get above the flicker rate. Hope you get some sleep... :-) Thanks again.
@vpupkoff
5 жыл бұрын
Screw 60p, I'm PAL user, 25p for ever =)
@msfotostudioo
2 жыл бұрын
DAMN, saved a lot of time with this video! Thanks!
@trinimedia19
4 жыл бұрын
What about true 23.976 on a true 24p timeline?
@dankofilmscz
4 жыл бұрын
So what if I shoot 60fps with 1/50, and than edit it at 24 timeline? Will it looks like classic 24 fps footage?
@mendiviloutdoorstv
Жыл бұрын
Will it make a difference if I render my videos at 1080/30 and a few clips at 1080/60 fps?
@milanchampaneria8485
3 жыл бұрын
No one solved my issue... only you did. Thanks 👍
@verybigheart
5 жыл бұрын
What's the best frame rate for international capability? 50Hz UK/EU - 50/25fps, 60Hz US - 30/60fps. What should I choose?
@PaulSaxbyPhotography
5 жыл бұрын
OK, but what about 25p and 50p footage for us PAL users ?
@zvrkovilenjak7740
5 жыл бұрын
Hi! How can I combine 1080 60fps videos with 4K 30fps videos into one? Can I create one video in Adobe Premiere Pro that will combine 1080 60fps videos and 4K 30fps videos, and that all parts are in real-time? Or in that combination, 1080 60fps must be in slow motion? Thanks! :)
@geraldundone
5 жыл бұрын
What I would do is make a 4K30 timeline, which your 4K footage will work natively in, and then add your 1080p footage and scale it 200% to be the same size as the 4K frame. It should drop the other 30 frames automatically without needing to slow it down. You'll just lose every other frame.
@zvrkovilenjak7740
5 жыл бұрын
@@geraldundone Thanks. 😊👍
@PowerslideEs
5 жыл бұрын
In a combination of 30p and 60p clips, is it better to have a 60p timeline or a 30p timeline?
@mrsockmonkey1969
Жыл бұрын
The best video I’ve ever seen at demystifying these conversions and the panning rate I had no idea about was a true bonus. I’m watching this every day for a month until it’s locked into my head. Thank you!!!
@ecellis9651
Жыл бұрын
Very helpful. I didn't realize how much frame rates on the timeline frame rates had an effect on the jitters. I think for ease I'm going to vlog in 30
@pedzsan
5 жыл бұрын
(Assuming everything you just said is true) ... I'm surprised at the lack of compute power that the high end editors put into it. For example, smooshing 60p into 24p could be done by computing the inter-frames and creating a pseudo 120p clip and then average (to get the motion blur) groups of 5 frames and end up with what I would suspect would be an extremely smooth 24p result. I'm surprised that they simply drop the extra frames. That seems extremely poor with today's GPUs.
@skAteSMR
3 жыл бұрын
Great video!!! From what you said about standard monitors, does that mean 24 fps timelines are pointless/worse than 30 fps timelines? Do you only get that realistic/cinematic look for 24fps if shown on an actual movie projector??? Thanks in advance.
@oneeyedphotographer
5 жыл бұрын
NTSC vs PAL? I saw some footage intended for US TV on Australian TV the other day. It was gross.
@Dave_Stafford
5 жыл бұрын
At last!! Just followed this logic from camera capture to post edit export and I've finally been able to fix my jumpy pan shots. You legend!
@the24hourlayover78
5 жыл бұрын
Thank you. What an amazing video. You made it very easy to understand and follow. Keep up the great work.
@WildExposures
Ай бұрын
Tell me if I am wrong....I always shoot 60 on average for sports video and if I think I need a killer slow motion I switch to 120....I load my 120 fps video first and then all my 60 and 120 if I slow mo and run normal looks great.....in other words I get great results with keeping it simple.....But I will say this guy rocks......way over my head:)
@avartefilms7346
10 күн бұрын
what to choose in camera: 23.98 or 24? and 59.94 or 60p? and what if to use the "optical flow" in Premiere - can it solve the pan jitter..?
@EMBEVIDEO
5 жыл бұрын
Great video ... again. I normally work with as 24fps timeline. What I noticed: When I edit mixed framerates with FCPX instead of Premiere, the results are much better. Often the "problems" are even not noticable. I tried it several times and the results were always the same. Have you tried comparing editing software with this issue? And regarding youtube: There's can be some lack of quality and a bit of jerkiness after uploading a clip that was just perfect when playing back offline.
@geraldundone
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks! 😃 My FCP game is weak, but I've heard similar things before. My thinking is that a frame blending technique must be applied automatically. But I'm just guessing at this point. If I have the opportunity to do thorough testing, I definitely will.
@123.gaming
Жыл бұрын
dont you just adjust your shutter speed so that you get motion blur? thats what i do it it works great for very fps.
@123.gaming
Жыл бұрын
every*
@PaulKretz
5 жыл бұрын
Great information as always! *Cleared one thing for me* . I'm used to shoot talking head stuff in 30fps (because my Canon cameras have a space-saving mode in 30fps, more on that here: kzitem.info/news/bejne/0qVvyIStaouki2U ) and b-rolls in 60fps for slomo, then bringing it all down to 24fps on render. Now I understand why *30 in 24 doesn't always look good* , while 60 in 24 slowmo is obviously always fine. Thank you!
@matiasrquiroga
5 жыл бұрын
Amazing video! I know I'll be coming back to this once in a while to get things right before starting a new project.
@AnimusInvidious
2 ай бұрын
I guess if combining 24fps and 25fps in the same project we'll have to upsample everything to 600fps for ideal processing and subsequent downsampling. 120 for projects combining 24 and 30.
@avartefilms7346
10 күн бұрын
one more from me) what if to shoot everything in 50p to get the possibility to slowmo where I would decide in the post(for 25p timeline) or just make it 25p from the 50p to get normal speed when every second frame will not be in use?
@maxmeyer6395
6 ай бұрын
I don't quite uderstand why my 240/144Hz monitor will struggle to display 24frames. What's the difference between the "pull down"/showing the same frame multiple times and the "real" look of the display refreshing 24 times. (What exactly is the difference in look and how does it come to be?) I'd love if someone could explain that to me
@JoseSanchezbze
5 жыл бұрын
great video Geranld. Now does the quality of footage whether it's 4k or 1080 p have some formula as well? when using different combinations
@serag6308
5 жыл бұрын
Wow pan rules! Dude you rule!!! I had become aware of problems with the "filmic" framerate that you could not mess a lot with camera panning, but didn't know there was a rule addressing this. Another day, another lesson. Big up man!
@geraldundone
5 жыл бұрын
Cheers! Glad it was helpful.
@Crlarl
3 жыл бұрын
6:07 Pulldown only describes adapting lower fps content to fit higher fps formats. 2:3 pulldown (2:3:2:3, 3:2:3:2, 2:3:3:2) describes 24 Hz to 60 Hz, not the reverse.
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