How many torches did he tell him to light? How many heads does Scylla have? He knew exactly what would happen
@felixhenson9926
27 күн бұрын
He knew way back, as soon as he said "but Scylla has a cost" to the siren he knew exactly what was required to get past her.
@TheAtomicViking
Ай бұрын
My biggest takeaways is Eurolychus caused men to die due to poor decisions or judgement, while Odysseus actively chose to kill six of his men as a sacrifice to scylla.
@tibbreaa3463
Ай бұрын
I agree. Eurolychus lost men because of mistakes or through unintentional consequences of his actions. He never set out to lose those lives, it happened because he lacked forethought. Because of this many lives were lost. Every life that was lost because of Odysseus was thought out and planned, so that only the least amount of lives was lost. Odysseus knew that people would die, so he made sure the rest survived so that it was not in vein. At least until it comes to everyone else and his wife. He will always choose the path that leads to his wife.
@anamarijahrastovec3148
Ай бұрын
Yes, but he was explicitly told to not open the bag and to not kill the cow, while Ody didn't know that the cave belonged to Polyphemus and that Circe lived on that island. Eury knew he shouldn't have done what he did because he was told beforehand. Ody sacrificed men knowingly only with Scylla, and never once before
@TheAtomicViking
Ай бұрын
@@anamarijahrastovec3148 yes I am aware, that is why I said his poor decisions and judgement, versus when odysseus actively choosing to sacrifice his me. . it's why the crew says how are we supposed to trust you now, since he willingly sacrificed some of them.
@anthonymarchetta8796
Ай бұрын
I think this oversimplifies Odysseus's choice. To be clear, the obviously moral thing would be to tell the truth. But Odysseus wasn't just looking for an excuse to kill six people. It is literally the only way for him to get home. And - I know this is controversial - to be honest while the choice was clearly wrong after the incident with the wind bag I can absolutely understand why Odysseus wasn't willing to trust his crew with this information about Scylla. It was the wrong choice, but completely understandable and I don't think equivalent to cold-blooded murder. If Odysseus had a way home that wasn't Scylla, he clearly would have taken it.
@anamarijahrastovec3148
Ай бұрын
@@TheAtomicViking the crew actively disobeyed their captain and their king, if I was Ody, I would've done the same thing because how can he trust them after they caused the deaths of 550 men
@cr3617
Ай бұрын
You missed this in Scylla, but Ody specifically asked Eurocup to hand out 6 torches to 6 men, so they would become targets to the monster. There is a difference between lives you lose by accident or as part of a mission, but Ody purposely sacrifices his men since he seems to know that Scylla has 6 heads: "But Scylla has a cost" in Suffering. The crew realizes in Mutiny that their captain no longer has their best interest in mind.
@Mattothy
Ай бұрын
Eurylochus typo. Hah
@cr3617
Ай бұрын
@@Mattothy That's what he's called him in other videos 😆
@Mattothy
Ай бұрын
@@cr3617 oh lol!!!
@skyephoenix801
Ай бұрын
Enough people are talking about the 6 torches, but here's an interesting theory to add to this. Everyone had beeswax in their ears during Suffering. No one actually heard the conversation between Odysseus and Siren Penelope. Meaning no one heard "But Scylla has a cost." They mostly knew they were going to Scylla's lair because a) Ody would have steered them there and b) The song begins with "The lair of Scylla. This is our only home." But I don't think the crew knew Ody was just going to make a sacrifice. They probably thought he had a plan to fight on through that may or may not have caused some of them to die. It's the realization that Ody is willing to just hand them over without a fight that causes them to turn. I mean, would you follow someone who is only using your life as currency to get what he wants? It's a massive departure from getting through 10 years of war at Troy without losing a SINGLE soldier. Polyphemus and Poseidon can be seen as mistakes, but the intentionality with Scylla opened their eyes that their king and captain no longer cares for them and their wellbeing.
@cr3617
29 күн бұрын
Oooh! That's a great point! I didn't even think about the line "The lair of Scylla ..." being a line he is singing to his men about why they are going through here. The crew totally would not have heard the conversation with the sirens. Mind blown.
@OzziesLittleFroggie
Ай бұрын
Just to clarify if the island is myth accurate…that’s Helios island. Helios is one of the few Titian to be spared because he fought with the gods in the war against the original titians. those cows were special to him I forget why but they’re immortal which is why the blood is yellow like gods blood. Because he’s a good Titian when the cow was killed he called for Zeus. So Zeus was coming to avenge the cows death 😅
@clesilver220
Ай бұрын
Helios isn’t the only titan who fought on the god's side, there is at least his sisters Selene and Eos as well as Hecate
@animeentranced1130
29 күн бұрын
I believe he threatens Zeus to go down and take care of it or he would take the sun to the underworld.
@OzziesLittleFroggie
29 күн бұрын
@@animeentranced1130 could very well be... I'm a bit rusty on the myth 😅
@rivendells_shona
Ай бұрын
A little Greek mythos trivia: the “blood” of immortal beings (gods, monsters … certain cows) is a golden something called ichor. Also, on Scylla: so in this version, the sirens tell Ody the only way home is the lair of Scylla, at which he balks and says “but Scylla has a cost” (one life per head). In the various Greek myths, ships trying to journey from the lands of the giants and monsters back to “civilization” had to pass through the traps of either Scylla or Charybdis. Scylla typically took fewer lives; in the Odyssey, it was Circe who advised Odysseus to go by way of Scylla to minimize collateral damage. Charybdis was the one whose whirlpool was so powerful that Poseidon himself could not save anyone from her clutches. Taken together, Odysseus is choosing between one sailor per head vs the entire ship… vs remaining in the lands of monsters. Now, Eurylochus is an odd one. Technically it’s Ody’s fault that Poseidon was hunting them down in the first place. So Eurylochus’s opening the bag was just a bad judgment call (and an actual sign of incomplete trust from the get-go). I wouldn’t consider him responsible for the lives of the 557 that Poseidon took. That said, his gut instinct is to “raid” the island of the lotus eaters (this was typically a very violent act carried out against innocent people). He evades Circe because he clearly doesn’t trust a free handout… but he’s willing to abandon his “friends” that she transformed. He opens the window bag despite Ody telling him what it is (and any seasoned sailor would know that 9 days of perfectly favorable weather is nothing short of a miracle, so the proof was in the pudding-or bag, as it were). So… at the very least, there is some inconsistency in Eurylochus’ thinking. I can give him the benefit of the doubt that from his perspective, the men Circe transformed were as good as dead , so there was no point in going back for them. But it’s wild to me that he’s so quick to assume command after telling Ody “if you have all the power, you take all the blame” and then his first act in command is to decide, “you know, we’re never going to make home, so we might as well just have a grand feast of divinely-owned cow before we embrace our inevitable destruction.” Clearly, there are warnings to be received in both his and Odysseus’ character arcs. I feel like I keep editing … Zeus (Gr.) /Jupiter (Roman) is the king of Olympus and god of skies and storms. Helios was the Greek titan of the sun but he eventually got merged/absorbed into Apollo, (who was the Greek god of poetry, prophecy, and plague) in the Roman era. The “head” God of Mesopotamia was also a sky/storm god named Anu; his crown and cult eventually passed to his son Enlil, god of the air. So strong Zeus parallels but not as much with Helios.
@FlippMusic
Ай бұрын
@@rivendells_shona Hades 2 coming out soon!!
@MrSlothJunior
29 күн бұрын
Also, "If you want all the power, you must carry all the blame!" is not a logical counter to someone rightfully pointing out that you would have done the same: "Yeah, I would have done the same, but since I was not the one in power to do so, I am innocent and they're guilty enough to be stripped of their power and agency." I can understand that he's emotional. I can understand that the he and the crew are unable to trust Odysseus after that. But there's not much rationale about their actions and arguments. If Eurylochus would have done the same in Ody's position, he's not really mad at Ody. He's just mad at the circumstances.
@flanny701
Ай бұрын
after the cow dies there is a snippet in the original poem that shows helios went to zeus to seek justice for the cows' deaths and if he didnt give it then helios would take the sun to the underworld.
@skyephoenix801
Ай бұрын
@nomeddeus2730 I heard it was the opposite, but it's hard to tell. He mainly helped the Trojans, but he also didn't really get involved until Achilles, after being slighted by Agamemnon, asked his mom (the godess Thetis) to help the Trojans so that he can get payback (Agamemnon was enough of a douche that this could be justified). His mom is the one who asked Zeus, who then started helping the Trojans.
@FlippMusic
Ай бұрын
Learning more about the story of this song after this run through was really eye opening. Remember! This is just a blind play through 😅 Don’t hurt me! We are ALMOST caught up to the wisdom saga! ONE MORE!
@LynxD007
Ай бұрын
Love how heated you got with your reactions! Getting into the music and the story blind is great, baked in with music theory-chef kiss!
@BusinessVoid
Ай бұрын
Don't forget to pin your comment lol
@jagson9
Ай бұрын
Here's something you may have missed. In Scylla, Odysseus said specifically to light six torches. And six people died. He intentionally sacrificed those men. And what's to say he wouldn't have sacrificed the rest of them.
@Grimclouds
Ай бұрын
To specify thus song highlights how Ody had been failing his men, thats what the crew viewed his past actions as (failing but trying his best for them) vs in Scylla where he sacrificed them and made Eurilocus choose who held the torches (make Eurilocus unknowingly choose the sacrifices)
@MrJoeyWheeler
Ай бұрын
In "Suffering", Odysseus says "But Scylla has a cost", meaning he knew that sacrifices were necessary. Then in "Scylla", the main lyric is Scylla saying "we must do what it takes to survive", and she shares a moment with Odysseus going "we are the same you and I". Thus, from the lyrics alone, without animatics or stage directions, you can still infer that Odysseus truly did sacrifice those men - especially since he also refuses to deny the accusation.
@mehmeh8403
Ай бұрын
I can't remember where i read it but it was a line saying "id rather die to the explosive wrath of a god then starve to death by hunger". It's just a quicker less painful death
@ShyyGaladriel
Ай бұрын
We picked out a “survive” recall in the horse and the infant Zeus says “a vision of what is to come cannot be outrun can only be dealt with right here and now” then in survive, Odysseus is singing “my brothers, the rest of our fleet they wait at the beach and if we’re defeated they’re good as dead”, and then here mutiny Eurylochus sings “some island, the first one we found it’s bursting with cows just roaming around begging us to eat. So much meat, and hunger is so heavy.” !!! In each instance some sort of survival is at stake. So exciting.
@MrSlothJunior
29 күн бұрын
Oh, I hadn't noticed the one in Survive. Has Jorge given an official statement about the connection between the three? They do all have a "You need to deal with this situation right here and now."-theme.
@damionwatson6711
Ай бұрын
Hi there, to clarify several things. Apollo in the Odyssey is not in fact the sun God. He and Helios are interchanged quite frequently, but in the Homeric Odyssey and Illiad, Helios, the Titan is the Sun God. The cows while immortal, do not age or catch disease, can be killed and Helios is very protective of them. The main reason is due to the fact they cannot reproduce, so if one dies, they are gone forever. He threatened Zeus, saying if Zeus did not deliver justice for his killed animals, he would take the sun to the underworld and shine it among the dead, letting the mortals to starve and freeze to death.
@skyephoenix801
29 күн бұрын
@@damionwatson6711 I don't know if it factored into Helios' decision to get Zeus to fix this, but Zeus is partially to blame for the death of the cow(s) in The Odyssey. Ody and crew were stranded on the island for a month because of Zeus (I think he took the wind away). In Epic, we're unsure how much time has past after Ody was knocked out nor if Zeus had anything to do with it.
@fbiuzz
8 күн бұрын
@@skyephoenix801No. It wasn't Zeus' fault. Poseidon was the that stranded them and sent storms so they couldn't get off.
@skyephoenix801
8 күн бұрын
@@fbiuzz I think Poseidon is partially responsible for Odysseus landing there, but not being trapped there. Wouldn't Poseidon want Odysseus in his domain so he can deal with him? What trapped Odysseus and his men was a lack of favourable winds for over a month. One thing Zeus was regarded as was the sender of winds. It might just be a lack of involvement (I don't think he told the winds NOT to go) but the main factor of Odysseus on Thrinakia was the lack of wind. That falls under Zeus' domain...even if only loosely...which could be enough for Helios. Granted, Helios probably would still have made the same threat just to get Zeus to act regardless of Zeus' responsibility in the matter.
@cr3617
Ай бұрын
In the Odyssey, Eury isn't just taking the cow's life out of hunger, but its a calculated decision of either dying slowly by starvation without any control over it, or having a say in it and maybe being smitten quickly by a god. Plus if they did survive, they could maybe ask for forgiveness later.
@ShyyGaladriel
Ай бұрын
I don’t blame either Odysseus or Eurylochus since both are complex characters and I love them both. They’ve both made bad decisions and this saga really is the suffering saga.
@Zach2003
Ай бұрын
The easiest way to pronounce Eurylochus is to imagine the sentence "you really cuss" while saying it
@thefollower89
Ай бұрын
Is not the same the men Eurylochus got killed wasn’t intentional while Odysseus deliberately told him to light six torches to distract Scylla
@felixhenson9926
27 күн бұрын
Eurylochus and the crew acted rationally imo. Regardless of mistakes Eurylochus might have also made in the past, Odysseus actively knew 6 men would have to be fed to Scylla and was okay with paying that price without informing the crew. He was happy to pay for his journey home with the lives of his men.
@dramma_dog9973
28 күн бұрын
It’s not about how he scarified 6 men it’s about how HE odysseus someone who wasn’t even willing to kill a monster who just killed his best friend killed 6 of his crew i don’t think he is liking the new person Odysseus is becoming
@arthurzackaryabrin
29 күн бұрын
actually, the sun god mentioned here is Helios, who then sends Zeus, the king of the gods and the god of sky, thunder/ lightning to deal with the people who have pissed him off by killing his sacred immortal cattle
@jakerengaming3560
27 күн бұрын
So the Greek Sun God was actually Helios. The idea that Apollo was the Sun God didn’t come around until Roman times. Zues is the God of the Sky
@stiletteleray1326
Ай бұрын
Imo the crew had every right to mutiny. Ody selfishly chose which 6 men to sacrifice instead of discussing it with the crew. Greece was very influenced by democracy and if you weren’t a good leader you would be replaced if not necessarily stabbed and tied up. Tyranny existed but was popularly frowned upon.
@legitimatemedicine
Ай бұрын
I agree. I think, in a way, it's on Odysseus that the crew was losing faith in his judgment in the first place back with the wind bag. Unquestioned obedience isn't exactly a virtue, and Odysseus basically commanded Eurylochus to do just that in Luck Rins Out. It's on him that he continued to make questionable decisions afterward and willing chose to value their lives lower than his own.
@nutelasaur9453
Ай бұрын
Would they have understood or cared that the sacrifice to Scylla was the only way to avoid Poseidon? Not to mention once Eurylochus fucks up and kills the cow, Odysseus takes charge and tries to save the rest of his crew. Again. Like every other time. It may be Odysseus's fault that Scylla is the only way, but Eurylochus is absolutely not blameless
@stiletteleray1326
Ай бұрын
@@nutelasaur9453 I’m sure there were older ppl or ppl with no family or STARVING willing to be the sacrifice. 🤷♀️ no one is blameless but Odysseus is the captain. Again, Greece was VERY heavily influenced by Democracy. Maybe held a vote if not 6 ppl were willing to step forward. This attitude tho is clearly selfish pride. We can all relate to the ~desire~ to get home but becoming a monster to me is without a doubt the losing way to do it. Odysseus himself is a “different beast” as the crew already recognized.
@stiletteleray1326
Ай бұрын
@@legitimatemedicine and he didn’t once take a chance asking someone else to watch the wind bag while he sleeps. Since Polites left Odysseus doesn’t trust anyone of the crew imo and that alone gives the crew reason to doubt him.
@sb-lx2dt
Ай бұрын
I agree- but I also think that Eurylochus had no right to lead it since his reckless act of insubordination directly resulted in an even larger loss of life.
@Stratos134
Ай бұрын
There's 2 big things you didn't catch which makes this story make more sense: 1) Ody knew what he was doing. What did he do when he found out Euro opened the bag? He ordered him to light six torches, for Scylla's six heads. 2) He learned about Scylla during the song Suffering, where everyone had beeswax in their ears. So the crew had no clue where they were going into nor what awaited them (Euro never calls Scylla by name for example), only Ody knew. Loving your videos, you got yourself a new subscriber!
@yoannbelleville7763
Ай бұрын
Remember how Odysseus told Eurylochus to light up six torches ? It was to mark six of his men to serve as bait for Scylla. He sacrificed them on purpose so that he would live. He also said in the siren's song that Scylla has a cost, meening he knew full well what was going to happen. Comparatively, Eurylochus did indeed cause the death of far more of their men but it wasn't on porpuse and he at least doesn't make excuses for it. One could also argue that the responsability is shared since it was Odysseus who drew Poseidon's anger by sparring and needlessely revelling himself to the cyclop. As for the Circe part, Leaving men for dead is bad but it doesn't compare to purposefully putting them in arm way to save yourself. He wasn't exactelly wrong either. Were it not for Hermes's literal deus ex machina, Odysseus would have died withought saving anyone. I'm sorry, but Eurylochus is in the right here.
@thomasdwyer1690
27 күн бұрын
he knew exactly what would happen, he was never in anyh danger because he didn't have a torch. He made 6 men have 6 torches for scylla's 6 heads as a sacrifice.
@turntechRavager
29 күн бұрын
In Suffering Odysseus mentions he knows Scylla has a cost, six stomach heads, six sacrifices as payment for passage through her lair. When his friend admitted to the Betrayal in Scylla, telling him to light six torches ensures him and his five favorite men will be the sacrifices. In some of the Scylla animatics you can see him realizing only people holding the torches are being eaten. Also "Who do you think he'll send" like the Cyclops, the sun god went and cried to Daddy
@pockyhunter187
28 күн бұрын
Helios isn't Zues' son. But he is a petty bitch. Basically, all the gods go to the God of Judgment for issues like this. He basically told Zues, you deal with them, or I'm just staying in the underworld and keeping the Sun down there.
@Mairilik
Ай бұрын
I think a strong argument can be made for why much of the death, and even the actions of Eurocup, can be placed on Odysseus, leading to the crew taking taking Eurocup's side. While Eurocup opened the bag with the storm, the storm was only really there because of Odysseus' choice to act out with the cyclops. Of course some culpability needs to fall onto Eurocup, but Odysseus also made the choice to not "keep your friends close and your enemies closer," which led to the entire crew's distrust. And if we even go earlier in the musical, he made two speeches about how he would keep the entire crew alive and no person would be left behind. Now with this choice to actively sacrifice six men, it shows Odysseus' hypocrisy.
@alexispincock7409
28 күн бұрын
As far as I understand, it was either choosing Scylla’s lair or Charybdis. Scylla was the sacrifice of 6 men to save the rest (because 6 men and 6 heads, one man to distract each head of Scylla) and Charybdis would have just killed everyone.
@rhianbeam1766
Ай бұрын
Nick's anger at Eury is so funny lol
@thearisthotle4686
Ай бұрын
The whole point of Monster at the end of the underworld saga was that Odysseus was finally letting go of his humanity, and taking in those lessons that Poseidon and Athena were trying to teach him. He no longer cares if they have to sail through dangerous waters, he no longer cares if he has to kill babies to make it home to his wife. He is becoming desperate and will do anything. In Suffering, the "cost" of going into the lair of Scylla WAS the men he would have to feed to satiate Scylla so he can get home to his wife. In Scylla, when Eurylochus says "youre quiet today" and Odysseus says "not much to say" its because Odysseus is silently carrying the guilt for what he is about to do, before having six of his men light torches. The reason Scylla could be saying "WE do what it takes to survive" "WE"RE both lonely demons from hell" and "WE are the same you and I" is because she is recognizing what he is doing with the 6 torches, and basically accepts his offering.
@thearisthotle4686
Ай бұрын
(Also God of the sun in greek culture is Helios, they just SENT Zues to punish Odysseus and his crew for harming his cattle)
@Peek-aboo624
Ай бұрын
To explain the mutiny from my perspective, the reason why Eurylochus would have fought Odysseus is because, if Ody is willing to sacrifice 6 crew members, how much more would he be willing to sacrifice hence the “there is no price he won’t pay”. Also something to be noted in Scylla Ody tells Eurylochus to light up 6 torches to narrow his chance of dying, meaning he knew what would happen. Sorry for long narrative explanation.
@WittySomething
Ай бұрын
Nope, Ody *knew* about Scylla. Like I said before, when the Siren mentioned her, he says "But Scylla has a cost". We aren't told how he knew, but he did. None of the rest of the crew knew because they couldn't hear what the Siren was saying, and Ody was reading her lips. But remember that Ody tells him to specifically light six torches. Fun fact: He also meant for Eurylochus to be one of the six sacrifices. Eurylochus only survives because he passes his torch to someone else to try and save another man. After that man gets killed, he realizes it was only the men with torches dying. The rest of the crew stops trusting him because instead of actually talking to the rest of the crew and seeing if there'd be any men willing to give up their lives, he just picks six men. He gives them no agency. They realize he only cares about getting himself home at that point, not the rest of them. What gets me is Eurylochus telling Ody he needs to carry all the blame, and like...Ody has? He never tried to lie or pawn off blame for Scylla or anything else that had happened since leaving Troy. He isn't trying to get out of blame by saying Eurylochus would do the same, he's trying to reason with him. Oh also, I forgot to mention: The next lyric in No Longer You is Mutiny. So we had Siren Song, Scylla Throat, Mutiny. The last one you couldn't hear is about the next song coming.
@kikio0529
Ай бұрын
I feel like this is the part of the musical where it does benefit if you've read the original epic so you can see the differences and what Jorge was trying to do. What are the major things is that the Odyssey was not written to have a modern-day story structure. It was written as a set of songs with Little adventures within this big epic. The best example I can think of in terms of modern storytelling is The Hobbit- each chapter has its own adventure that Bilbo goes through weather it corralled to the main story or not because these stories could have been broken down into multiple different sessions are bard could choose just to tell the story of the Cyclops or of the sirens. This was their form of entertainment for a long time. Not to mention basically a combination of their Shakespeare and their Bible. No one looks at the Bible for a 3 act story structure. And we are not even going to talk about the morals being different. Jorge went through the story himself to make it more flow for a modern audience by making everything build on top of each other and making it character focus with internal conflict. So the route the story Houston planting seeds that this mutiny was going to take place. However with some contacts to helios cows may be needed- a lot of people in your comments sections have brought up most of the points and I don't see the point of repeating it. I don't see people mentioned to that they are stuck on this island for a long time due to storms to the point of starvation. Sorry this is all over the place I just have a passion for ancient history can I find sometimes that context is key😅
@Ajthingsandsuch
Ай бұрын
You're so underrated, I thought for sure you were a channel with like 100k subscribers, it caught me off-guard to see only 1k. I hope you get more recognition
@FangxIggy
27 күн бұрын
Mortius I think mentioned a handy way to help remember Eurylochus' name: "You-Really-Cuss," since he's kinda abrasive in most of his songs. Kinda late now, but you know 🤭
@v1lsxe
21 күн бұрын
So funny how in the last video he called him Eurycup and now Europe 😭
@tammyt3434
23 күн бұрын
Light up six torches... The line kind of stands awkwardly in the scene, forcing someone without your superpower for focusing on instrumentation to notice and remember when Eurylochus mentions six men. Don't ever change, we love your focus and delight.
@katia8136
Ай бұрын
This is the appropriate anger towards eurylochus, but I think you missed that ody did know what would happen. 😅
@memedaddy5664
Ай бұрын
Odysseus knew that the price through was 6 men, he had Eurolychus light up 6 torches, but to be fair losing 6 men to Scylla was a lot better then losing them all to Poseidon, or trying to fight Scylla and losing them all anyways Also glad to see you on the Eurolychus hate train :D
@vailea_arts2741
Ай бұрын
I think a lot of people will say that Athena would be so proud that he made the choice to sacrifice the men because “ruthlessness is mercy upon ourselves” is most likely a sentiment she agrees with. But I disagree because she’s the goddess of war strategy. Ody took the easy way out by sacrificing the men. Athena would’ve been much prouder if he found a way around the situation like what he did with the cyclops (until he ruined it).
@dragonstouch1042
Ай бұрын
There is no outsmarting Scylla on her own element
@dramma_dog9973
28 күн бұрын
Also Apollo sends his dad Zeus to hurt him after they hurt his cows
@pockyhunter187
28 күн бұрын
It's actually Helios
@n1t-m1n103
Ай бұрын
Ody 100% knew what would happen with Scylla and specifically made sure to keep himself out of danger. Srelisten to Scylla and pay attention to the lyrics, you'll figure out very quickly what Odysseus did. It is different from what Eurylochus did on Circe's island. Intentional sacrifice vs leaving men whom he believed couldn't be saved at the time.
@Dragon32101
Ай бұрын
Uh..yea, it sounds similar to Luck runs out, because as in Hamilton, the songs have reprises.
@princeveggie
2 күн бұрын
This is classic Trolley Problem. What is worse? Killing 500 people by accident (and tbf Ody also had a hand in that one by doxxing them) or actively choosing to sacrifice 6 people. They are all soldiers. They went to war knowing there might be casualties. But its a different thing if my general actively makes strategic decisions planning to use me as fodder. Apollo is the god of light. Helios is the god of the sun. The implications is more Helios went to Daddy Zeus telling on them.
@foamoftheocean
27 күн бұрын
Eurocup ... Euruppa. Love that 😂
@FakeJ0ker
27 күн бұрын
See it's not the losing 6 men part that makes ody wrong in the eyes of the crew. It's bcs the crew didn't know AT ALL that they were going into scyllas lair. Only ody read the sirens lips, so ody basically led his men into death without even warning them and preparing them. On top of that ody was safe in this case bcs only the men with torches were the ones that were killed(as I'm sure the other comments have said 😂)
@yoannbelleville7763
Ай бұрын
To give you some context, in the Odyssey, there was no mutiny but the crew did get stranded on an island with Elios's (the sun god) cows. Odysseus warned his men not to touch them but after many days of starvation, they essentially gave up and decided that even if it drew the anger of Elios, drowning at sea was still preferable than slowly starving to death. They killed an eate the cows when Odysseus was asleep while sacrificing their remains in hope that it would apease the gods. Needless to say, Elios was furious and freatenned to plunge the world in darkeness if they weren't punished. Zeus had to personally intervene to get him to calm down.
@eviehaven5775
Ай бұрын
. difference here between eurylochus opening the bag and odyseus vs scylla is eurylochus opened a mysterious bag that he had no idea would lead to that death vs odyseus knew and chose to end those 6 men which included eurylochus until he handed off the torch at the end of scylla thusodyseus knew he was killing them and chose vs eurylochus was never intended so the crew mutinied. they couldnt trust him to not pick one of them next
@giant_pigeon
27 күн бұрын
I 100% agree with you on eurylochus btw
@giant_pigeon
27 күн бұрын
It's also important to note that while arguing about the cow at first they both are only thinking about themselves. "How much longer must I suffer now" please don't do this I need to get home" neither of them are thinking about anyone else it's all me me me and i i i
@thatguylotus9627
Ай бұрын
The bag was only open due to lack of trust from everyone. Ody is the one who pissed wet hades off. Athena warned Ody he didn’t listen. Plus if they did make land Poseidon would have most definitely wanted to see Ody go back to his wife and child to know who they are and kill em as punishment
@sb-lx2dt
Ай бұрын
Wasn’t the bag opened because the rumor spread that it was “treasure”? Odysseus warned in no uncertain terms that the bag contained the storm and should not be opened. He definitely made the wrong call with Polyphemus due to his pride, guilt, and ignorance of who the cyclops really was despite Athena’s warning. That is most certainly on him. But he also took steps to fix his error by requesting Aeolus’ help, and nearly succeeded, until Eurylochus opened the bag explicitly against his instructions. There is a big difference between recklessly sparing an enemy you think has already been defeated, and engaging in a blatant act of insubordination out of either curiosity or greed. What happened with Scylla is an entirely different matter, of course, as Odysseus deliberately planned to have members of his crew face certain death without their knowledge. Due to this betrayal, it was not unreasonable for them to commit mutiny. However, the fact that Eurylochus led it is hypocritical no matter how apologetic he is, for he should have also faced justice for committing an act of insubordination with a much higher cost in lives.
@ssbruv
26 күн бұрын
Odysseus knew _exactly_ that would happen.
@ian3523
Ай бұрын
the sun god is Helios, and now he gonna bring his daddy to deal with them
@pockyhunter187
28 күн бұрын
Helios is actually not his son. He is a child of the titans, Hyperion and Theia
@gromigur
Ай бұрын
The point is that actively sending 6 men to death (thats why 6 torches in the video befor) makes him a Monster. Euridicus beeing curious/scare (bag/cerce) were mistakes but at least the crew knows he would not kill them for personal gain. It is rational to not let the person lead that would kill you if it means seeing his wife.
@cahlees3329
Ай бұрын
Odysseus knew what the cost of going through scyllas lair was. He had 6 men hold torches (including Eurylochus) so that they were targeted. He could have told the crew the risks and they could have agreed collectively. None of them could have held torches so that each man had an equal chance of surviving but Odyssues was not willing to take the chance that he might die and not make it back to Penelope. I think thats the ultimate betrayal. Prior to this all risk was shared. Odysseus could have died on the battlefield in Troy or been killed by the Cyclops. HE put himself in harms way to rescue his men from Circe but now hes truly become a monster like Scylla who will do whatever it takes to survive.
@felixhenson9926
27 күн бұрын
Apollo is not and never has been the god of the sun to be clear. That has always been Helios. I dunno why the fandom rly latched onto that idea. Nor is it Zeus, that's the god of thunder, but he is also the god of judgement, Helios demanded punishment, Zeus was sent to deal it out.
@vengefuljester2090
11 күн бұрын
Europe? The sun god they're referencing is Helios. Helios then went to Zeus and asked him to punish Odysseus and his crew. Eurylochus's name is said 8 times in this song alone. How do you mispronounce it after hearing it 8 times in one song?
@felixhenson9926
27 күн бұрын
Half this video is Flipp just having entirely the wrong idea about what is going on lmao
@aquakittykat
26 күн бұрын
Ok, I'm tapping out - I've been wondering for a while but you seem very reactive rather than contemplative? I have a hard time following your logic some times. Eh, good luck either way 👍
@Lucas_Hutchings
19 күн бұрын
Put the blame on Eurylochus's but none of this would have happened if ody didnt run his mouth to polythemus
@FlippMusic
19 күн бұрын
@@Lucas_Hutchings I only know Europe/Eurocup
@briannapadilla7622
Ай бұрын
If you haven't been told already in Roman the Sun God is Apollo and Greek it's helios Zeus appears because if they're portraying the sun god in here as Apollo Apollo is the son of Zeus just like how Cyclops went to his father Poseidon Apollo went to his father Zeus if it's Helios that they are talking about that is thank God he is the brother of Zeus they are almost matched in their strengths so he went to his brother's like if you don't do something I am going to go to the underworld and never come back and everything on this whole existence will die from not having any sun
@gisellparra0420
Ай бұрын
So in my opinion, Eurylocus is completely in the wrong and managed to convince the whole crew that Odysseus was in the wrong. Eurylocus killed more people by opening the wind back and wanting to abandon the whole crew in the cerci saga so ody is not in the wrong he made all his choices for the best of the crew and they took him for granted. And when he finally put his foot down they also took him for granted so there is no winning when Eurylocus totally got the whole crew to turn on ody and not trust him. Also awesome job I can't wait for your next reaction!
@Multi_Fandom_JAB
Ай бұрын
Watching you get upset at Eurolychus is so real like Odysseus saved their lives so many times and the Eury killed so many of them😭😭😭😭 the only ones that were ‘Odysseus fault’ was with Sylla but the other 6 HUNDRED men were most Eury
@whatifieat
Ай бұрын
First
@RainyLS
Ай бұрын
Congratulations
@whatifieat
Ай бұрын
@@RainyLS thx
@robbieg6838
Ай бұрын
First off you’re not wrong. Even though Eurolychus didn’t mean it him disobeying Odysseus and opening the bag got 558 men killed. Second the sun god is Apollo but Apollo is Zeus son
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