If grims gave you 370+ base items or a level 4 blessing item for carrying 2 - I’d 100% carry them.
@NathanFerYou
8 ай бұрын
Heck, if they gave me a flat amount of plasteel per grim I’d be okay with them (would much rather yours). My problem is they are so unworthwhile. Dockets are nice and all, but Scriptures already do that. Grimoires just feel punishing for the same lame reward. Now giving me extra plasteel at the end of the mission, now you got my attention.
@fluffywolfo3663
8 ай бұрын
@@NathanFerYou concur'd with both of you. If the goal is "carry an item all match for rewards," then why not make the rewards... _rewarding?_
@Jenkkimie
8 ай бұрын
I think another problem with grims is that there are not always enough missions to go around. This is partially because the playerbase is already small enough and you might not necessarily cause too much division. At the same time though this also forces players to pick up grimoire missions just because it's the most appropriate difficulty for their skill level assuming no grims are picked up.
@razzyrazberries
8 ай бұрын
This is why they worked in Vermintide. The bonus dice rolls for better rewards. In Darktide it's just "here have 1000 more dockets and some EXP that's worthless because you're max level and doesn't contribute to anything".
@cyberleaderandy1
6 ай бұрын
The only benefit i see to them is the penances thing you get an additional bonus fee for and that can mean some better kit but otherwise i tend to leave them.
@jasziegl8983
8 ай бұрын
Grims should give a second emperors reward per grim with a high chance of purple and gold. In vermintide it gave you a whole extra dice roll if I remember correctly. There was a tangible reward we could see and experience, not just slightly more xp and gold reward.
@zacattack32441
8 ай бұрын
Not an extra roll, but improved the quality of the chest.
@SubOptimate
8 ай бұрын
If someone is really invested in that 16 book melk challenge they probably shouldn't look for them in _auric_ missions.
@prich0382
8 ай бұрын
Exactly, it's more doable in normal Damnation
@DarkCatfish
8 ай бұрын
Exactly this, case closed.
@TheChaos791
8 ай бұрын
All is said here !
@jlstudio1050
8 ай бұрын
Please whoever has a hard-on for the Grimoire melk, stop doing them in Auric!!! I only encountered one of you and you did it in HIGH INTENSITY HUNTING GROUNDS.
@sarbjotbrar610
8 ай бұрын
people who grab grims on auric missions r probably very good at the game and want it to become harder for an extra challenge@@jlstudio1050
@garylin6641
8 ай бұрын
The main problem of the book is there’s nothing satisfying for carrying a book,player would rather just win the auric malestorm mission . Maybe spawn a unique boss and give everyone a temporary boost as a reward which makes it more fun.
@nemesisnidhoggr1468
8 ай бұрын
oh yeah! like a side quest. Like an makeshift altar somewhere on mission where you bring grim and use it to summon some boss to fight. Problem is - it should be at the end of the mission, because you need to find grim during the mission. So maybe before final room? Would be cool, like that idea.
@hecc7906
8 ай бұрын
What?
@astrovarius543
8 ай бұрын
@hecc7906 hUuH??
@thunder2434
8 ай бұрын
This is the best Idea I've seen of fixing this!
@hecc7906
8 ай бұрын
@@astrovarius543 This is some fortnite type of shit, all they gotta do is give you more dockets and/or some plasteel
@prich0382
8 ай бұрын
Grims in Vermintide 2 were an early to mid game way to grind gear, once you get good, play Cata and stack Deeds/Twitch mode or just play modded, there is no reason to grab Grims when just playing Deeds/Twitch mode can just as well provide you with Chests and it's also more rewarding, or juat play modded and have whatever you want to play the real fun stuff where you don't need to grind at all. In Darktide, I don't like how Grims take away a block of health BUT ALSO then slowly corrupt your health further over time, I wish it was like Vermintide at least where it's just a block of health.
@leozaboudi8005
8 ай бұрын
The corrupting part is the worst. Also, not all classes are treated fairly : because they corrupt a flat amount, and not a percentage amount, squishy classes get the bad end of the stick while ogryn maily shrug it off!
@Mr_Giggles
8 ай бұрын
Vermintide didn't have any way to combat corruption but in Darktide there are multiple methods. A single zealot with the right perk would negate the corruption ticks all together. It's really not that bad and would be even easier with the changes mentioned in the video.
@prich0382
8 ай бұрын
@@Mr_Giggles Well it did, Grim resistance whatever it was called on your trinket, 33% I believe which was necessary for Book Runs, and Warrior Priest himself had 100% resistance
@lykonic1763
8 ай бұрын
This. Precisely this. Not only do grims in Vermintide 2 have less of a penalty to Darktide, but they have more of a direct reward. Even on a fresh account, on a character that's still not level 30, grims just aren't worth the extra penalties imo. The penalties need lowered, the rewards need increased, and there should be a balance between the two to make it a challenging yet rewarding side objective that doesn't cause such a rift on whether to do grims or not amongst the team or even greater community. Like, scriptures are fine, because it just means you can't carry a box - at least half my games, I end up not finding one to carry, so that's fine. And the rewards are a little smaller to match the pretty much non-existent challenge of carrying them to the end - the only challenge sometimes is finding them really. I just really hope that Fatshark can continue to improve this game until it gets to or even somehow surpasses Vermintide 2 in terms of fun and quality. I still absolutely adore V2 and it's one of my top 3 games of all time. I want Darktide to make it to that spot in my heart as well. And aside from the more important things like more content, fixing some bugs, improving poor optimization (settings and performance wise), and going over some of the weird balancing of certain talents and such, fixing the grim issue is a good step towards that long term goal.
@ranciusclay
8 ай бұрын
me and my friends used to do grim runs even in legend/cata cause of the extra challenge. plus the jump puzzles for some of them were actually fun to do
@nuggs4snuggs516
8 ай бұрын
I think making it a separate mission is amputating what only needs a bandaid. If you, for example, only made the flat HP loss apply to the holder, with the rest of the team still getting the ticking corruption, it would be much more manageable for those who aren't looking to pick up grims. Or you could make it only the flat HP loss, with no ticking corruption. If the curse was less impactful, I don't think people would complain as much. Then again this is reddit, so they'd just find something new to complain about, like QoL mods or something
@masterxmadoobler5100
8 ай бұрын
Darktide and Destiny 2 community venn diagram is a circle
@melobeloslate
8 ай бұрын
booooo boring i want a new challenging and rewarding game mode! but i still think the problem remains as your team can still toss by all having their HP clipped
@Derpartment
8 ай бұрын
I agree with nuggs here
@Logan-tw7wv
8 ай бұрын
The subreddit blowing up over this has been hilarious to me. My take, before even watching: Grims aren't rewarding enough for the risks, but I recognize that while I may have quickplayed into the mission, someone may have *explicitly chosen that mission* for the grims. If someone says they need them, cool, but if no one needs them, no one needs them. I won't leave a grim-grabber to die, but I don't think it's wild to hope for some critical thinking around when you should discard the grim if the mission's going poorly for everyone.
@Incarna_
8 ай бұрын
You're asking way too much of people if you're asking them to think. Don't you know that common sense and critical thinking are for plebs?? >->
@wilhelmpaulm
8 ай бұрын
it's usually new players that are assholes when it comes to grims in auric
@cyberleaderandy1
6 ай бұрын
Absolutely agree. I saw one yesterday as a psyker on the investigation mission on level 4. I left it as it was hard enough as it was. Additional corruption we didn't need.
@jtcLIVE
8 ай бұрын
I would argue that the main issue with grimoires in darktide is how disproportionately it affects the macrogameplay element of the entire game. Grims spawn in semi-random places throughout missions which forces you to search for them for potentially prolonged instances, indirectly encouraging you to split with your group in a team based game. The more time people spend away from their group the more likely they are to get killed in an unrescueable spot, and while this is avoidable by searching as a group you cannot ever anticipate or expect a group of 4 random people to have the cohesion and teamwork required to do that - That level of teamwork in quickplay is an exception, not the rule. Grims lower everyone's flat HP by a specific amount, but also continues to tick everyone's HP down even further which strongly impacts everyone and not just the grim holder, but more importantly disproportionately effects players depending on their class. Ogryns are effected less by the grim debuff due to their healthpool and can operate at a near full capacity for a long time - Psykers and Veterans will feel the debuff much stronger and quicker and will have to play a very different game pretty quickly. Compare the above to how vermintide did it - Guaranteed memoizable spawns that allowed players to get them quickly and minimize time away from your team, and a flat HP drain that effected the entire team but also a lock on your potion slot that only effected the grim holder and not anyone else. I think the main reason people gripe at grims is how much more difficult it makes the entire game for everyone, rather than it being more skewed towards the grim holder. I think moving the HP decrease over time effect to only penalize the grim holder would make people much more open to the idea of grims. Changing their spawns to make them a bit more predictable would also help alot, too.
@effive7817
8 ай бұрын
Honestly if the team is aware enough to retreat instead of engage, four players splitting up before hordes/encounters is actually very fast. Problem is if 1 or 2 players are searching the whole map, they'll be gone so long searching 80% of the map alone it delays and increases danger. Even without mods you can see people literally walk over plasteel and not grab, or open a box and leave it there. Makes it harder on my loot goblin tendencies when my loot goblins boys arent online.
@williamtaftt
8 ай бұрын
i think the crux of the issue was missed a little bit at the beginning part of the video; the problem that the community has with it is that a random player on the team suddenly has the power to exercise their agency on the entire team and the rest of the team doesnt have any way to stop them other than just letting them die like they did in the original reddit post. saying that anyone loading into a grimoire mission should have the right to pick it up because theyre just exercising their agency only really works as long as that agency only extends to themselves (which in the case of grimoires is not true). I think the best, and probably easiest way, for fatshark to fix this issue is to only have grimoire corruption apply to the player holding it. they could even leave the rewards the same, and it would still make picking up grimoires much more worthwhile, just because theres less risk involved with it; a low risk, low reward situation, versus how it is now, where its a high(ish) risk, low reward scenario.
@yondeefeedz
8 ай бұрын
Amen 🙏🏻
@ammon260
8 ай бұрын
I think this is incorrect for a few reasons; 1) It's a team game, everything that affects one member affects the team's output. For example, one person leaving the match makes the game more difficult for everyone, even if nobody is being directly debuffed. 2) There have always been multiple ways players can negatively affect the team beyond grims. Taking more ammo than they should, blowing up barrels, taking medicaes, aggro daemonhost, meme builds, etc. Players always have and always will have the power to sabotage a run, either on purpose or on accident. This issue, however, is far more avoidable...simply dont queue into auric grim if you sincerely dont want the possibility of someone picking up a grim. It's that simple. Quickplay in, check to see if it has grims, if grims, leave, re-queue. Easy. Some people think it's fun to have an extra challenge, and that's not up to anyone to decide what "fun" is. Tldr; let people have challenge/fun on the maps that are literally designated as such. If you don't like it...go to literally any other map.
@williamtaftt
8 ай бұрын
@@ammon260 the difference is that someone accidentally taking an ammo pickup or taking a medicae when they shouldnt is not an active debuff to the rest of the team. its not optimal play, but it normally doesnt significantly reduce the odds of being able to finish the mission like grims can. any player wanting to be malicious by intentionally taking all of the ammo drops or trying to blow people off the maps with barrels is obviously going to be able to do that, but grimoires are an "intended" way of playing. Its just bad game design when something thats an intended way of playing is having to be compared to someone trolling for the sake of making an argument about what players should be able to do to be clear, i dont disagree with the sentiment of "if you dont want to play with grimoires, dont play grimoire missions" or "just dont get hit and then the corruption isnt an issue", but the possibility of quick play queueing into these missions means that sometimes you just are going to be stuck into a grimoire mission and youd rather just deal with it instead of sitting through multiple minutes of loading screens
@sleepygryph
8 ай бұрын
Vote to kick the player, on one mission the guy was an ass the entire way, picking up the grim we asked him not to, overextending, and aggro'd a DH after asking him not to. So we finished the level and then right before the end, voted to kick him. Zero XP, Zero Materials, and Zero grims for him. The system for dealing with players like that is already in place it's just not being used
@ammon260
8 ай бұрын
I'm comparing the two because trolling/being bad/griefing vs. grabbing a grim are all parts of the game that make the mission more difficult. The intended purpose of grims is to add challenge for a small reward. Yeah, the risk/reward is pretty skewed and should probably be adjusted. It's literally what the intended purpose is behind grims, though, and griefing players going for that intended purpose is kinda shitty tbh. You can't avoid the trolling, dameonhost spawns, bad play, etc, but you can avoid grims without affecting other players' experience of how they want to play the game. I think what bothers me so much about this whole thing is that the solution non-grimmers have to take is so so simple and easy (avoiding those missions or leaving), but they'd rather coerce/grief other people simply playing the game as intended. The game makes grims easily avoidable, and consciously not utilizing what the game gives you to avoid grims, and instead griefing the people that DO want grims, is again, kinda shitty. Grim players have no alternative if they want grims. They have to play grim missions. Players who do not want the extra challenge/skewed risk reward can simply go to ANY other map. While I agree grims tend to add more difficulty than a bad teammate (not always the case tbh), it's literally a part of the game people can easily avoid. It's super controllable.
@AnomalyTea
8 ай бұрын
I have never encountered toxicity in this game except in exactly one scenario, where I VERY consistently encounter it. That toxicity is when players DEMAND that I pick up a book (either a scripture or a grim, doesn't matter), and are willing to hold the run hostage until others are willing to comply, even if it means leaving supplies behind. Naturally, this happens more when there's a party of 2 that are the book hunters, as they can prevent any kick vote from passing. This happens with a remarkable consistency any time I happen to quickplay into a mission with books on auric damnation. It's obnoxious that I have to give up the quickplay bonus just because of toxic assholes that will ruin the game with their temper tantrums. IMO Fatshark needs to remove books entirely until they can rework the whole system.
@silvershots12
8 ай бұрын
I think the key issue was people picking them up on auric missions, where enough special modifiers already exists. Grims make those missions nearly impossible, and the culture I've found on auric is people in ignoring the grims entirely because they dramatically increase the likelihood of a wipe.
@duffath
8 ай бұрын
I think if they didn't penalise your plasteel collected on a wipe that would take the sting out of it a bit. Think you only keep a third of what's collected.
@GabbeMan123
8 ай бұрын
imo the main problem with grims is that the reward you get from them just isn't worth it at all. more exp is completely usles ones you hit level 30 as is more dockets. if you got more materials for them and scripters id do them every time. i did all tomes and grims in vermintide basically exclusively, because there they ment something, in darktide they dont.
@AndroidA258
8 ай бұрын
picking grims arent worth the trouble, theres literally no point in them, just like daemonhosts, picking grims in auric without asking is literally griefing...
@josephcola9662
7 ай бұрын
I think the whole Grimm issue boils down to two things: A lack of agency for the people who didn't pick it up, and people being punished for the actions of another person. Realistically speaking, short of a vote-kick or deliberate sabatoge, there is literally nothing to stop someone from picking it up, even if half the team is against them doing so. Which then boils into the second problem: someone who explicitly wanted to avoid the Grimm is now losing a chunk of their HP and taking constant corruption because someone else decided to ignore their own opinion. I really think that the corruption should just apply to the person who picks it up. I feel like people would be WAY less salty if they weren't punished with corruption and continous health loss because someone else did something that they themselves just didn't want to do. Edit: on missions where I *definitely* don't want someone grabbing a Grimm, I've taken to picking them up myself, and then IMMEDIATELY destroying them. You still lose health, but destroying them at least removes the corruption and prevents someone else from grabbing and keeping the thing.
@WickedWombat-13
8 ай бұрын
It's 100% a waste of time and effort and adds an extra factor that can lead to a group wipe. If they actually changed loot rolls like in previous tide games it might be understandable. It was always common to ask first in VT2 and you can just leave if you're the only one that wants to do the grims. This is the video game version of the shopping cart scenario, if you're rude and making poor choices don't complain if you get left behind.
@JasonJoestar
8 ай бұрын
I don't bother with them and always change contract. Give us incentive to carry them to the end when EXP and Dockets really does nothing anymore once you have god-rolled items.
@daftartifex4476
8 ай бұрын
It was common decency in vermintide 2, to ask if anyone wanted to do grims. Ask first, it is that easy If they gave a better chance of good item rolls or more money/resource multiplier it would be worth taking them. Still, ask first
@garylin6641
8 ай бұрын
True, we’re just here to killing heretics and time,not carrying a book to make our mission more difficult.
@prich0382
8 ай бұрын
Grims were basically a low to mid game grind way to obtain gear, once you reach Cata, stacking Deeds and maybe Twitch mode, you never do Grims as the rewards from Deeds/Twitch can be just as good and more satisfying.
@Mr_Bambini
8 ай бұрын
I really disagree with “exercising your agency”. This is a team game that requires teamwork, and that’s an incredibly selfish way to look at it. Picking up a grim at higher difficulties does nothing but work against you and your team. The risk does not justify the reward.
@florentdonnet7825
8 ай бұрын
I'm really into increased enemy spawn from grimoires.
@thatguygrey
8 ай бұрын
don't drag the team down in a heresy or damnation game, if you NEED the books, do it in a level 2 or 3
@henryviiifake8244
8 ай бұрын
07:44 I completely disagree. Both parties cannot _both_ be correct at the same time. In the first situation, the person joining was asked not to pick up the Grimoire and _did it anyway._ In the second situation, the team that was already there picked up the Grimoire _before_ the new player joined. In the first situation, the person joining was inconsiderate and, in my opinion, deserve the blame for adding extra difficulty to the mission that the existing players were trying to avoid. In the second situation, the existing players _already agreed_ to get the Grimoire. It was the person who joined that threw their proverbial toys out of the pram and ruined things for everyone when they could simply leave and join a different game if they don't want to play with Grimoires.
@nemesisnidhoggr1468
8 ай бұрын
"adding extra difficulty to the mission that the existing players were trying to avoid." So... skill issue, yeah? If you trying to avoid extra difficulty - then be better?
@Flopdoodle
8 ай бұрын
In the first situation, the players should not have picked a Grimoire mission. Case closed.
@henryviiifake8244
8 ай бұрын
@@Flopdoodle "If you don't want to get hit by a car, why drive?"
@mattlabelle39
8 ай бұрын
if you do the grim/script contract youre wrong anyways. why am I gonna do like 12 missions to get 16 books when I could just do like 3 to get plasteel and diamantine?
@mattlabelle39
8 ай бұрын
but also, NOONE GETS LEFT BEHIND. even if theyre rude.
@iKorv1n
8 ай бұрын
I think I prefer a little less overthinking on the matter. Turning it into a new form of content is a fine idea and all, but it's really making a meal out of what is a small issue. Simply put, I don't think corruption from picking up a Grim should affect the entire team, but just the holder. Problems I foresee with this: expecting certain characters like Zealots and Ogryns to be the dedicated book bearers. Grimoires currently don't hit Ogryns as hard as everyone else given their natural wound increase and the level of health/tankiness baked into their kit. I like to think that I'd be happy to do that for my team while playing one of these tankier classes, however, if it only affected me. No skin off my back. I just think that if it was a personal burden, then it would take pressure off the team and make it less of a consensus issue. If *you* want that Grim, *you* better be ready to buck up because it's *your* problem. This might still aggravate some people. I expect them to bend over backwards to find blame for a mission failing no matter what, though. I think the main problem is the current iteration punishes people for not having planned for this very niche but *serious* modifier of difficulty. No one really runs Grimoire Resistance when quickplaying for obvious reasons. It's a waste if there's no Grimoires, and if you're picking missions specifically for the book weekly, why wouldn't you pick Scriptures (even if on a lower difficulty for that matter where people are much more likely to cooperate). It's not that it's too much to ask, it's simply logical. I see the book weekly as an entirely selfish reasoning for forcing Grims on a team that does not want them. You didn't need to keep that weekly, you didn't need to do it on some of the hardest modifiers available without everyone's approval. Of course, it's on whoever joins who is in the minority to excuse themselves. Also, the only reason it affects the entire team from a design point of view is because that's how it was in Vermintide. It is a holdover from previous games with the only innovation on the subject being that it is *even less rewarding but an even harder detriment* given the constant ticking away of health until the point of leaving *everyone* on one wound. This was not the case in Vermintide. You still got one chance to get revived, and curse resistance was a natural contender for everyone's kit when playing on Legend (T4) because it has a low opportunity cost. Grimoires were omnipresent on every level, and there was always a solid chance someone wanted them because there was literally no difference in loot between Legend and Cataclysm (T5). Cataclysm was just for the fun of the difficulty boost, unlike Damnation in Darktide, which comes packed with pretty serious benefits over lower difficulties. The bottom line for me is that currently picking up Grims is meaningless. The level of difficulty they bring does not equate in any meanginful way to the reward you get, so Grims either simply need to be nerfed like this or the reward needs to be buffed, if not both. Dockets aren't an important, rare resource to farm for as Aurics already dump boatloads of them into your wallet (only important to people who play Brunt's slot machine, really, or for switching Melk's Contracts, I guess), and XP farming becomes negligible and more of a pointless status symbol for people using True Level. It is just a detriment to the entire team that someone can choose to force on others at any time, others who sometimes could not have prepared for it without taking a chance by wasting some very valuable curio slots.
@nicholasjohnson6279
8 ай бұрын
would love new missions that shake up the premise of what we need to do in a mission. The special category for assignments has so much potential. one could even think about it as the story mode for the game. I really hope they don't remove missions from it, and instead keep adding more so that we eventually build a library of narrative missions the help flesh out the story.
@emonkhan1443
8 ай бұрын
Making it harder and harder isn't the way to go. let me make some changes to your idea. we can keep the special assignment. just making it harder is lazy and no one will want to waste too much time on it. so let's make it actually interesting, lets make a new grimoire-specific map for better balancing. on top of that since it will be looked behind lv 30, giving more experience is just a waste. I would say rather than that it would give weapons with a base modifier of 380. on full completion aka with the grim, you get a weapon with base 380 and a lv 4 blessing that you didn't have. and if you complete the hidden lv (dat requires you to finish with grim first) then you get weapons with 90% or 100% modifier limits instead of 80% and these weapons would be fully gold. and bosses would be plague marines instead of just spamming plague ogryns like lazy bums. this would be harder but they can reuse the assets for future stuff so it would be fully worth it.
@Vulcanerd
8 ай бұрын
In VT2, with red items, it was always default to pick up grims and books on legend (when I was playing b/c it was considered the farming difficulty) and on cata and above, it was usually at the discretion of the team, but it was usually skipped. I think the issue is that, in VT2, every map has grim/tomes except FoW (omitting Weaves and CWs since they are wholly different modes and they don't have them, of course) whereas your opportunities to pick up grims/tomes in DT are restricted by a (albeit dumb) design which is a topic for another comment. Personally, I don't care if someone wants to pick up a grim. If I queued up in a grim map, thems the risks I take. If grims bothered me that much, my ass shouldn't have queued up in a grim map and I even have the option of leaving if I didn't know beforehand (as is the case of qp).
@Fatpuppet2000
8 ай бұрын
I have an easier solution: In the missions terminal options, add a yes/no option for books and match players based on this.
@paihobbes8680
8 ай бұрын
Exactly. Problem solved. But people love to bitch about things
@jon9828
8 ай бұрын
Splitting the available players into two groups for matchmaking isn't a small change.
@gavinhill111
8 ай бұрын
This whole scenario reminds me of Mann vs Machine in TF2 and how awful the players in it act.
@TheUndeadslayer221
8 ай бұрын
The most worthless low life take on grims that I have seen is a guy ending the game at the last second before the end of the level (this was in vermintide 2, but the point still stands). "Anti grim" individuals are usually toxic these days and frankly, I'm done hearing the whining (yes, I am aware of the motives mentioned in the video). The ideas in the video for fixing grims is good however.
@witchBoi_Connor
8 ай бұрын
Hmm, yes, justifying griefing because it's a game mechanic is fun. Because nah, picking up grimiores when other player(s) are vocally against picking them up is griefing, getting left behind in a fire fight is fair at that point. The other player(s) are making a decision at that point that the grimiore is more of a liability than the grim holder is an asset. If it saves the mission, it saves the mission.
@bigboi7817
8 ай бұрын
Grims are not a must/must not and thats fine for me. I normally see the grim holder go down and then its gone anyway but if you make a good point that the grim is going to cause wipe most holders will drop it. I do think its fun that there is conflict about touching the cursed books as there should be.
@TOOL01-m6b
8 ай бұрын
i think the overall problem with a random taking a grim is the general health of other players. as an ogryn or zealot im totally fine with grims, but when i play as psyker or vet it makes my health go below 50% in a couple minutes. so to kinda fix that a solution might be take % of overall health and not ticks with a specific health quantity, this could be a nerf to ogryns but if the % of health taken by the grim is not that demanding it could work fine for everyone (i don't use health curios on vet or psyker cause i don't see a real use for them on my gameplay)
@troller9838
4 ай бұрын
I think grims should only give the health debuffs to the person carrying it and not the team mates.
@MikeDyson3k
8 ай бұрын
As a Psyker main, fully understand being left behind. The "shove it" was the corruption taking over.
@ToastyMcGrath
8 ай бұрын
They just need to find an alternative to corruption, like causing hallucinations or other lore-friendly distractions.
@theonlymann1485
8 ай бұрын
scriptures are fine mostly, grimores unlike in vt2 you arent expected to carry the grimore specific resistance on the 9 slot available. even then, in darktide it continuously corroupts unlike in vermintide. i think just having a "book", for example, grimores have 2x modifier, on XP and stuff gained while scriptures just give out 30% of the original mission value. so total of 190% if you have all 3 scriptures, and 4x for 2 grimores.
@Acesahn
8 ай бұрын
The real problem is a group making/social problem Fatshark cooked into the game. You don't que up in the lobby, then go in... you que up then get thrown into a lobby or a mission in process. Fatshark made this problem when it could have been avoided with some communication before the match starts.
@VallornDeathblade
8 ай бұрын
I really miss how Vermintide handled lobbies, hanging out in the pub before or between missions, talking strategies, getting on the same page, and then kicking ass. Darktide just throwing you into missions feels way worse in comparison.
@duffath
8 ай бұрын
I feel like secret hard mode would become the new grim problem if something opt-in like that was included. Otherwise its a nice idea, perhaps too nice though. Feel like it could split the player base quite severely.
@doltantebi7400
8 ай бұрын
Helmet cosmetic (very cool)
@TheRealChedder
Ай бұрын
Every game of mine I got players who are role playing. Never really experienced any toxic gamers. I’m sure they’re there but this games roleplayers definitely outshine them😂 On one of my WORST GAMES. The worst that’s happened to me is some guy threatened to take my “rations”😂 I love this community😂😂
@Sorain1
8 ай бұрын
While I might suggest having the creeping corruption from holding one in Grim Retrieval only apply to the person holding it, in general the key point of 'let people choose to deal with it' rings true to me.
@Uggaphat
7 ай бұрын
I've never call anyone out on picking up grims, but there's a decision to be made when I quickplay into a grim mission, because it increases the chance of wasting my time. Hadron already wastes all my time with his anti-crafting. Wouldn't be so bad if the corruption only affected the holder, and/or you got a small scaling damage buff as the corruption increased. I can't carry anyone in Damnation, so I bail from grim missions at the start in case someone does want to grab them.
@LukeGlitch
5 ай бұрын
Something that would be a lot more interesting then its current state it would that when you discard a grim activates a special action on enemies, my idea would be something like i have a grim while playing on Auric Mealstrom or simply Auric Damnation mission and my Teammates are all down and there's just so many stuff going on that to save them you have an option that is you use the grim to idk make enemies think that you're one of them because you used the grim and you have so much corruption in your health giving a chance to save your alies which would make grims actually an valuable option to discard if needed, sure you wouldn't be able to get more rewards? Yes but it would make a good reason to actually carry a grim on hardest difficulties which combine with my idea and all solutions you gave it would make things a lot more interesting than just corruption and more rewards(which is not even that much) maybe my idea is a little absurd? Yes but it doesn't need to be the way i told it could something even better and I'm pretty sure the whole community and devs would find a better solution for this. Very good video man
@BwCquigley
8 ай бұрын
I'll be honest.....Its a carry over habit from Vermintide 1&2.....GOTTA GRAB THE BOOK!!!!
@MakashiOwns
8 ай бұрын
I think you've overbuilt the solution. Split the queues. There's Quickplay (with Grimoires), Quickplay (no Grimoires), and then picking your mission. Done.
@EssaBee
8 ай бұрын
DOOD what brightness do you play on???? I thought you were playing borderlands in the preview.... It's called DARKtide, not happy heretic hunting grounds!!!
@nemesisnidhoggr1468
8 ай бұрын
If you really playing Auric Damnations - you should be considering yourself a skilled player. If you really considering yourself a skilled player - you should know, that even Auric Damnations are easy (i miss broken AI Director, that was throwing Maelstorm level waves on you on Auric Damnations) If Auric Damnations are easy - you should make it a bit harder by doing activities, game let's you to do. Like picking up grims or killing daemonhosts. If you fail to complete Auric Damnation after picking grim/encountering dh - you NOT a skilled player and should consider going back to regular Damnations and practice there. That's my thoughts and opinions on the matter. I dont go and scout every corner for grims. Too busy having fun killing. But if i did stumbled upon grim - i will pick it up. If you crying about me picking up grims - you should be higher than me on scoreboard. If you NOT higher than me on scoreboard - i consider you a deadweight and a hindrence to the team, more than a grimoire is. And i'm talking not from perspective of "pro-player". I'm not that good at the game, my PC hardly gives me 40 fps when hordes spawn on lowest graphical settings, my builds are non-optimized fun roleplay based. And if i, under all those conditions, better than you on scoreboard in Auric Damnation - you dont have the right to tell me that i shouldnt pick grimoires. Get good or die trying. Edit: For those people who tell "grims worth nothing, dont pick them up" - Fatshark clearly aware of lack of rewards grims give. So they will, in the future, fix this problem. And grims will be worth picking up. I will be prepared to complete Auric Damnations with grims, because i have no problem doing it now. YOU wont be prepared to complete Auric Damnations with grims, because you were crying "noo, dont pick grims" in your games and have no experience on how to play Auric Damnations with 2 grims. Hell, maybe people will start using that +1 wound trinket. Wounds get a lot of hate after medstim was introduced
@NeoIsrafil
28 күн бұрын
If a player is risking a full team loss and refuses to stop and most of the team is against it... yes. Leave them or if it can be done, vote to kick. I'm newer, dunno for sure if vtk is possible. It should be team consensus though. If its 50 50.. no grim because that means half your team cant handle it, you're gonna lose. Dont risk loss for a small bonus unless you've got a true majority.
@ChibiViolin
8 ай бұрын
You are ABSOLUTELY WRONG about quick play "rewards." The sole purpose of the extra resources that quick play provides is to stop optimised resource farming. Characterising them as a benefit given for taking a risks is just flat out WRONG. They are merely a way for the developers to stop players from only picking the most optimal missions for gathering plasteel. You can also see this design philosophy bourne out in the randomised mission board. To be clear, quick play rewards are just another method the developers use to incentivise players away from gaming the RNG crafting system. They are not put there as "reward" for taking on risk.
@remyspierings9848
8 ай бұрын
I always do quickplay mission, mainly because I prefer the randomness. I will never pick up a Grimoire, because I find the risk reward ratio is just too poor. But I usually won't ask people to drop Grimoires, apart from the blight scanning mission on HL18-16? In my experience that mission is an autofail with Grimoires. I agree Grimoires should be a seperate mission excluded from quickplay, and to actually make those missions attractive, there should be much better rewards for gathering grims. A bunch of plasteel and a gold weapon per grim pluss ordo dockets would be nice. Perhaps even some special cosmetics when you have picked up a certain amount. Or how about some blessings from father Nurgle? Say, 10% more health for -5% movement, or more toughness for a slight penalty to dodge distance? Anything Nurgle themed. Overall the blessings should be balanced to be beneficial, so penalties shouldn't be made too severe, more symbolic.
@remyspierings9848
8 ай бұрын
I always do quickplay mission, mainly because I prefer the randomness. I will never pick up a Grimoire, because I find the risk reward ratio is just too poor. But I usually won't ask people to drop Grimoires, apart from the blight scanning mission on HL18-16? In my experience that mission is an autofail with Grimoires. I agree Grimoires should be a seperate mission excluded from quickplay, and to actually make those missions attractive, there should be much better rewards for gathering grims. A bunch of plasteel and a gold weapon per grim pluss ordo dockets would be nice. Perhaps even some special cosmetics when you have picked up a certain amount. Or how about some blessings from father Nergal? Say, 10% more health for -5% movement, or more toughness for a slight penalty to dodge distance? Anything Nergal themed. Overall the blessings should be balanced to be beneficial, so penalties shouldn't be made to severe, more symbolic.
@sarge2115
8 ай бұрын
Overall theyre not worth it. At all. You get plenty of cash doing a basic damnation and you get basically nothing if you lose. Better to take things that help contribute to a mission success rather than a percentage more for money you dont need. Melk contracts? Easier to get a new contract. As far as party dynamics go? I play with 2 other friends, meaning we get 1 random... We 3 never pick up books. Ever. Most of the time when its a Grim mission, the rando will ask. We say no. If they listen? Cool. If they ignore us and pick it up anyway? Or just pick it up without asking? They've become a lesser priority when things might go to shit. If youre taking some artificial handicap or challenge modifier, and you go down? Youre dead. Once youre dead the level gets easier. Simple as. Even solo randoms, I dont grab books. No matter how much its spam pinged, its just not happening. If they gave more rewards for materials? Or maybe +10 overall score for weapons for each book? Or maybe some of the suggestions in the video? Sure. We'll take books.
@soloshottie
8 ай бұрын
I think if we consolidated the pain of grims onto the single person carrying them it would be fine. double the corruption gained from grims, but only affects the player carrying them. then increase the rewards for extracting with it to the tune of high rarity/rating weapons or upgrade materials
@hv4244
8 ай бұрын
I think the benefits of grims get WAY overstated. If you want dockets go for scriptures. If you want to complete contracts just reroll the book one because that's a minimum 8+ mission one. If you want a challenge ---play on a higher difficulty--- Grims are a stupid tax.
@ЮрийОрлов-д5ц
8 ай бұрын
Thank you for the theme. But i think your suggestions are not solving the main problem: loot-progression system. When player just started he really needs exp, dokets and materials so he have some motivation to try teking books(by this term, for now, i mean Grims And Tomes). He needs this all. But at the end exp is just pointless reward, But dokets and materials became less needed. Weapos changes less often and players just spend them less and less. If somebody whants a challange they go at auric and atc. Thats why books now is just useless. Weekly missions is pointless. For my 500h of game i bought some thing for this type of moeny onely a few guns just for "fun" Removing then from game is step backwards. I think devs should make weekly missions payed by aquillas. This could be interesting not onely for beginners but for old players too. So with this you can buy good skin(skins that is avalble now for docets just lame) for your actions and achivements. Not mucth about 2-10(5?) for mission depending on its complexity and additional 10 for all weekly quests. In this situation books became mutch more valuable. Many modern moblie games allow players to earn '''game gold' by playing and many modern pc games borrow some game elements from there. This decision will motivate new players to take risks and holds old players for skin an etc.
@mr.mammuthusafricanavus8299
8 ай бұрын
LOL 2:59 I did that once by accident: destroyed the Grim and the team got incredibly irate with me. - Personally common sense would be to simply ask. My Beef: No Rewards. We need some cooler bonuses/incentive for Books and Demonhost (,I'd like to see a mission that even tells you to go meet an operative and they turn out to be possessed by a Demonhost or just hunt Demonhosts). I don't even get why the books themselves don't give you a bonus like: - Grimoire could enhance damage equal to corruption like it is corrupting the team with POWER! - Scriptures could enhance toughness - Both books would raise the amount of enemies, this can be reduced at anytime by destroying the books
@solarupdraft
2 ай бұрын
I preferred when books generally and grims specifically were in set locations behind puzzles. I think they are a cool optional difficulty slider, but I wish they had much better rewards. I also agree that they should probably be in their own queue, so people can gear appropriately with curse resist curios. Imagine if grims gave you a unique, powerful crafting resource. That would see a big swing in interest in gathering them.
@Kazgrel
8 ай бұрын
- Reroll grim/scrip contract (takes too long since if you quickplay there's no guarantee you get a map w/ them) - I've been running on heresy and damn for better part of a year, so coin is a non-issue - I ignore grims if I run across them (scrips I'll pick up since no penalty) - If someone else picks them up, I'm not even bothered; they're there in the mission and maybe those folks need the extra cash I'm just flabbergasted how end mission rewards in this game are so basic and pointless when you compare DT to how VT2 handled grims (among a LOT of other things)
@notasovietspytrustme4392
8 ай бұрын
Everyone abbreviates it as grim because y’all don’t know how to spell grimwoar
@fredrickwheeler6852
7 ай бұрын
In response to the original inspiration for the video: 1) I don't like grims, but I won't say anything if you pick them up 2) I wouldn't condone the sabotage of an ally who takes a grim (or for any reason, it's a team game) 3) I prioritize picking up allies, so I wouldn't do it myself, but I also wouldn't blame someone else for not picking up someone who takes a grim. If you die with a grim it's destroyed. If you can't stay alive with grims, don't take them. In response to the video: I would absolutely be fine with grims if the rewards were worth it. Plenty of games just fail in 5 seconds because the director had an aneurysm, or because players misunderstand priorities, or panic, or other reasons. I don't mind losing a game here or there because of grims. What I do mind is that when we do succeed we get jack for it. I like the suggestions. They'd improve a lot, and I might even do those missions because they grant a much greater opportunity for reward. I usually just do quick play for the 10% materials reward. I really can't understand specifically queueing for grims, because it costs you the materials from quickplay, nvm having to deal with grims themselves. But i've only been playing a couple months, so I still get a lot of use out of plasteel and dockets.
@TheWildeen
8 ай бұрын
with how much 5% 15% etc bonus to material, nobody would be playing anything else besides this. This would turn it into a boss farm that nobody would leave, not the best idea. I personally don't mind grims take it. dont take it. who care. The only problem I find with the argument you made FOR grims is that if you are doing it for the "Challenge", whatever the reason may be, why isnt "antagonizing teammates" factored into the challenge. Your points are pretty well laid out but having unwilling participants in a random game will always be present. You decided to take up the task/challenge of grims on regular missions, you should be ready for teammates who would leave you for dead or more specifically the grim which has now handicapped the team more than 1-2 plays worth of HP. Basically if you take the grim be ready for the challenge and everything it entails, including antagonizing teammates and they leaving you for dead to remove a handicap. Otherwise find 3 other friends.
@willgegg8601
8 ай бұрын
Hilariously, I've never ever run into someone who complained about anyone picking up a book. Just don't do a mission with grims if you don't want to do it. "Noooo, you're doing the thing we all signed up for." You made the choice. You chose the grim modifier mission. It's a listed modifier. It's an objective that everyone benefits from if done. If you can't play your class with all grims held on auric, you chose the wrong mission modifier or difficulty. If you picked quickplay, you signed up for doing anything and everything.
@UponGiantsShoulders
8 ай бұрын
IDGAF, if you are not running a pre-made. Ask if the team minds. Otherwise you are the jerk. Full stop. Simple as. No amount of dockets are worth a wipe. Its a punishing mechanic for almost no reward.
@ktkdj1998
8 ай бұрын
My thoughts on Grimoire and Tome are that they are high risk, low reward. The additional experience points become irrelevant once you reach level 30, and the currency is so small that it is meaningless. To solve the problem, we need to increase the rewards. Simply bring the book to the end of the mission and each member of the team will receive high-quality equipment as a reward. Each Tome gives you 1 piece of equipment, and each Grimoire gives you 2 pieces of equipment. And if you bring everything regardless of the type, giving 2 to 3 additional pieces of equipment will provide more motivation to take them all. Or better yet, give them some sort of ticket instead of equipment. then this ticket can be used at Armory/Melk or Hadron. When you use a ticket in Armory/Melk, you can select a specific weapon type and receive a gold-grade weapon with a high score for that weapon type. This way you can reduce the RNG factor to get the weapon you want. And if you give Hadron a ticket, Hadron will exchange this ticket for a certain amount of crafting materials. Alternatively, it would be great to be able to exchange locked perks or blessings in exchange for a large amount of tickets.
@Observer29830
8 ай бұрын
There is an error in the logic of your defense of grimoire-takers. Your argument seems to be that the players going on grimoire missions and taking grimoires are simply exercising their agency, and that they are technically correct (the best kind of correct) in doing so, and retaliation against this kind of behavior, especially when the rest of the team is against it, is understandable, but wrong. Here is the error though: Grimoire-taking is NOT the main mission objective. It's an OPTIONAL objective, subordinate to the main one - completing the mission. No mission is made with an explicit purpose of getting grimoires. You can run around with them all you want, but unless you kill that Captain or get that crate of special ammo to the Valkyrie, or destroy the contaminant plant, you're not gonna be seeing that Mission End screen. The optionality of Grimoires, together with their negative influence on EVERYONE on the team due to the actions of ONE person, endangering the completion of the MAIN mission objective, is what removes picking up grimoires from being a personal decision, to a collective one. And anyone, who, for one reason or another, decides to pick them up without the consent of the team, deserves what is coming to them. Likewise, the argument about Quickplay players not having a say about grimoires also holds no water. Not just because of what I described above (the optionality of grimoires), but also because they are rewarded for making the matchmaking system easier. Quickplayers are what helps achieve full parties instead of going them with 2-3 bots when you start a mission and nobody else joins. They have as much say in how the mission is run as anyone else.
@ninja_dragon44-35
8 ай бұрын
[3:47 PM] man, we wouldn't have the grim problem if they were treated like say, in Vermintide, fuck dude just put lucky dice in the game too, so Brunt's Armory isnt so trash
@SixXGaming
8 ай бұрын
Melk and the cosmetics store should have dailies (Melk does already) hourly, and weekly options.
@Maximilian_Romus
8 ай бұрын
Grims are too punishing. They were way more manageable in Vermintide 2. There I always took Scriptures and Grims. Always. But in Darktide the grims are too punishing and there is no considerable reward. So i always avoid them while playing T5 Auric. Running them with randos is challenging enough.
@TheChaos791
8 ай бұрын
Books in general are worthless compared to the ones of Vermintide ; You mostly gain XP which for 75% of the playerbase is useless since you are max level, Ordo Dockets are ok but there is so much more better way to gain money without risking a wipe especially for grims, just playing a map with "Ventilation purge" no sniper is more rewarding than these books. In Vermintide 2 getting books and grimoires on Legend difficulty is a necessity if you want to get the better chests and by extended better rewards and chance to get red weapons. Also except pure masochists nobody carry books or grims during Cataclysm games since you get the same quality rewards in the end. In Darktide I tend to think more or less the same ; If i play regular damnation no condition I don't care if somebody took the grims I'll even help to carry the second if someone ask. On the other hand if it's in an Auric mission like STG or tough conditions it's a "No !". I won't kick or say anything toward the carrier but it's not my karking problem, I won't help to take the second, there is easier mission to complete Melk' contracts. It's their burden ; If he live to the end cool, If he dies he tried !
@phillipgrubb2443
8 ай бұрын
Lmao only scrubs can’t easily run with grims. Child’s play. Ps, if you don’t want to run grims. There this crazy button called, leave match. It takes 2 seconds for the group to find some one else.
@porphyrienne
8 ай бұрын
For grimholders: I like the challenge of grims, but if we're losing and i request (not order) them to drop it and they respond harshly or aggressively, I have no qualms about ditchin them. However if its "i'd rather not" or anything other than outright rudenesss, idc what the grimholder is facing, I'm backing them up no matter the odds. Grim etiquette: in the lobby, ask if it's cool to go for grims. if its anything other than unanimous yes, then it is a no. If you're loading into a grim mission, you should be ready for it, but one should always ask. It's really all about courtesy and etiquette. Just be fucking polite.
@milat9287
7 ай бұрын
Think the rewards should just be made more impactful, and make it so that every mission has either scripture or grims to pick up. If we can normalise and even expect full grims in every run in Vermintide, I don't see why we couldn't in Darktide too. I really believe it's just a case of them not being valuable loot. It's not exactly gonna net you an Emperor vault where you'd otherwise get a Merchant or Soldier vault.Would make beacon of purity a more interesting choice to battle the corruption anyways, and if you have worthwhile rewards, I could see people getting disappointed if you abandoned the grim instead
@rmeng3
8 ай бұрын
I just dont pick them up, but i dont begrudge the people who want to pick them up. I would love to pick up Grims or scripts bc it is really fun to hunt for extra stuff. I just have 2 issues. 1) the reward for going out of your way is nothing. The Melk contract can be rerolled practically for free. Extra Dockets? It's so easy to get dockets just by playing the game. 2) theyre so hard to find. Maybe if they were more rewarding i wouldnt mind, but i just dont need more dockets. If i could use scripts and Grims as a currency to get a chance at some uber rolled gear that would be neat. But once i got my good gear, id be back to not caring im sure.
@spikeslab5922
8 ай бұрын
The simple answer to picking up Grims is NO! The risk and effort to avoid loosing MAX HP, for some extra exp and dockets is absolutely terrible. If you want a challenge then fine, but in any sort of pubs please for the love of the Emperor NO! (At the very least ask your team before you pick it up). I can not count the umber of times iv lost a run and lost more than half the mission win rewards, just because some zealot with a hammer thinks he can solo the game with a green book. Please do not use them unless you are confident in your abilities, have a really Giga team, and or you all agree to pick them up, because the rewards in general for both scripts and Grims are extremely awful.
@Manlikepegasus
8 ай бұрын
I don’t care about grims, but you know what I’m mad about? The fact that fatshark keeps releasing weapon variants with blue skins, bright gold, green, etc. Why can’t we have weapons that are just simple metal colors, blacks, or silvers? I can’t match any outfits with these weapons, and in turn can’t use them haha 😫. I haven’t used 2 handed hammer or the new revolver ever, cause I can’t match them to any outfit that I want to use them with. Fatshark can eat an old man’s toe for not adding more weapon skins, and also for adding these damn colors on weapons. I don’t need a visual representation to know it’s a variant fatshark, and most people don’t. We ain’t that dumb. Please give us basic gun metal, blacks, metals, silver, etc. type colors on weapons. Stuff that actually matches up with any outfit. V2 had like 5 different skins per weapon, and all were viable in terms on semi realism/color matching capabilities. Now we got a fucking crayola box as are weapons 😫. Anyway, grims ain’t a big deal. I only play auric and maelstrom dam, and I could care less if someone or I picks up a grim for fun. It’s a cool book to look at. If you care so much about that small amount of health, then you bad. Trust me you can go through a whole auric maelstrom dam mission with just a sliver of health. Same thing in v2, as it really just doesn’t matter. I would play cata twitch deeds with friends and pick up grims for fun. That sliver of health is so irrelevant at high levels, so trust me it doesn’t matter. If a rando wants to read, then let the man read hehe
@NiWhomPing
8 ай бұрын
Good video and suggestions. Lately anti-grim is on the rise. I've had my poor psyker run down to 1 HP more times than I would like lol. Mostly if someone asks "Grims?" in the chatbox, it works out that one or two players say 'nah', and that's the end of it. I don't collect grims and dismiss grim contracts from Melk because its not worth it. Extra challenge is ok with a good team but that's just more random chance added to already big risk of carrying grim.
@JohnWick-kb5jr
8 ай бұрын
It only bothers me when I play as my veteran, I don’t buff their health at all. I have 200+ toughness so I rarely lose health, but grimiores take over half my health. This results in my death if I make 1 mistake and go down. I like playing my veteran with default health, with 3 extra stamina and two 17% toughness curios.
@wild4148
8 ай бұрын
This is the type of problem that no matter the change will still be a problem in some way. I think it best to just make a better version of it's current form and keep it at that. I'd propose two revisions: Make Melk's 16 book contract count for team pick up rather than player only pick up. Change rewards from EXP & Dockets to a Palasteel & Diamantine boost and/or boost emperor gift rarity.
@pumkin3405
8 ай бұрын
In terms of "simple" all Fatshark needs to really do is let players choose their own map/modifiers/difficulty to include being able to Solo. Why Fatshark chooses to take steps backwards from what was already in VT2 is beyond me. Then people can solo their own books/grims if they want to. I don't even play Auric missions and have seen plenty of people pick up grims just to destroy them or let the grim holder die on purpose.
@betheguy_posts
8 ай бұрын
Speaking as someone who just picked this game up a week ago, this whole debate is kind of a turn off tbh. Such a heated community debate over what is essentially a diffulcity modifier... I recently left the Destiny 2 community to escape this level of vitriolic infighting. Glad to see its probably just the gaming community as a whole. Your mission idea sounds solid though. Feels like a raid. Sounds fun.
@petrusion2827
8 ай бұрын
How about just simply making grims the way they were in vermintide? The problem with darktide grims is that they will often and rather quickly make it so that you can't get downed even once. Vermintide grims gave you a static max health debuff but you could still get downed, you just had less health and temporary health to work with. If darktide grims just statically decreased your maximum health and toughness without giving you extra corruption I think they'd be in a much better place.
@nexus274
8 ай бұрын
Always ask before taking grims. If anybody says no, then don't touch it. The way grims are currently implemented into the game is obnoxious. Personally, after 2k hours in Vermintide, I'm tired of the concept and would rather see higher difficulty modes than pick up items that nerf the team.
@ClayInvictus
8 ай бұрын
If I hear "player agency" one more time I'm going to puke. I can exercise my agency to pick up grimoires. I can also exercise my agency to leave fallen players behind instead of helping them. Just because the game allows you to do something, it doesn't mean you should do it. And claiming that "it's what it's there for" and "that's what the game intends you to do" is pointless when that part of the game is as flawed and poorly designed as the book system is. The game controlls what you can and cannot do. We as players decide what we actually do. Invoking player agency as an excuse for doing something your teammates ask you not to is like like using your free speech to be an asshole to people, and then complain when they use their free speech to call you an asshole. There should absolutely be a discussion about what is good and correct behaviour in Darktide. But I don't think it should be based on what a flawed part of the game tells you to do. If a game system is flawed players should work around it, not playing into it. Edit: Personally I mostly play Auric quickplay and never care if someone picks grims. For me it's just a dare from that player, "are you good enough to do aurics with a grimoire?", which I'm always willing to accept. What infuriates me is the thought of intermediate players trying to farm resources on quickplay damnation to feed the stupid slot machines, just to get some "player agency" and a wipe showed in their faces.
@starslayer8390
8 ай бұрын
The grimoires in Vermintide 2 are both less punishing and more rewarding. I don't understand why the grimoires in Darktide have such a brutal effect and for so little benefit. This wasn't really a problem in VT2 because most people agreed that the added risk was worth it, and there were better ways of mitigating that risk as well. I mean, if nothing else, you can play warrior priest and flip corruption the bird. As for the "exercising agency" thing, that is a non argument. I can "exercise my agency" by deciding to destroy someone's property, or hurt them physically. There are many ways to "exercise agency" that are considered morally wrong. And so in video games too, someone "exercising their agency" can be anything from them being a good team player, to being a stubborn asshole. An individual "exercising their agency" in a team game can lead to a wipe for the whole team. I would say that makes them directly at fault for the failure of the team, no? If even one person can't handle the extra pressure, you shouldn't pick up a grimoire. You are in a team, you need to act like it. If the team wipes, you get zero rewards. So how does one play a mission with grimoires and actually run the grimoires? Well, currently your options are either have a premade team, or find some people outside the game on reddit or discord or some such to play with. There needs to be a more robust matchmaking system then just the quickplay button. One that lets you set parameters, such as whether or not you're going for grimoires or scriptures. Regardless of all that, the solution put forward in the video definitely works, and is a way to recycle the concept into something cool rather than just dumping it from the game. Frankly though, if they were to decide to just remove them entirely, I don't think they would be missed.
@IroskTheOrc
8 ай бұрын
I miss weapon guides. You could do mark comparison videos? Like how do the different IAGs worked? Obviously theres one thats the best atm, but what niches do the others fill, etc, could be an intersting deep dive
@daemonhunter100
8 ай бұрын
Honestly, just getting rid of the grimoires (for now), I think is the best course of action.
@necrobard
8 ай бұрын
A very evil idea for your hard mode "Grim Retrieval". If you die while carrying a grim, you don't just lose the grim, you turn into a deamonhost.
@689999able
8 ай бұрын
Easy fix: Don't pick a mission with Grim's, or if you load into a mission with Grim's from quick play, just leave and let somebody else who wants Grim's or doesn't mind finishing the mission join. It's not rocket science.
@thunder2434
6 ай бұрын
I just realized that why my random teammates tried to kill me with first opening a door and retreating back to hide so I'd be hit alone with a horde was because I'd picked up a Grim. When I beat said horde on my own and told them to not pre-open doors one of them called me dirty words. Water on a duck though. I kept carrying them through to the win regardless, kept saving them and gave them a GG in chat at the end that I got no reply to. The point here though is that this was on a normal grim mission on difficulty 3. Also I'd been carrying them although it was middle of night and I wasn't focused like when I normally play Damnation. Which was why I didn't ask like I normally do. I'll make it a habit of always asking from now on.
@pixelchickenrider9566
8 ай бұрын
There is also the option of making it so people can turn off certain conditions in quickplay so that they don't load into missions with grims at all. Really I think the book contract from Melk should be toned down or the grims removed to actually fix the problem, but if we're talking about minimal effort, which from a company standpoint is probably the most likely to be considered, then just allowing quickplay players to turn off the option of loading into grim games would be an easy fix to part of the problem. It wouldn't solve the issue of people picking grim levels with no intention of picking up books, but it would partially fix the issue and if they ever do add more customization to level choice then that would probably fix the problem as well. I do agree that they will likely have to remove grims entirely to completely fix the problem though unless they're willing to work some kind of extensive rework fix. They just don't offer a good reward and the book contract Melk gives out requires too many books. No one likes running with grims and while polite players will try to help out someone with a Melk contract, others, like my best friend, will cuss them out and screw them over, reasoning that after the 20 to 40 minutes he's stuck in a game with them he will never see them again so what does he care of he treats them like shit. Before you ask, yes, he also plays League of Legends, though I can usually get him to behave himself until after he's had a few too many beers.
@ryukshinigami13
8 ай бұрын
I do the 16 book contract every week, best way to go about it is to just run 2's and 3's if you want to pick up grims without having to worry about what it'll do to your team. On Heresy I'll ask, most of the time no one cares. Damnation/Auric though I don't even bother, unless the team decides to go for them, and if we wipe, we wipe. Just ask and abide by the decision, and if you're on higher difficulties and someone picks one up against the team's wishes and refuses to destroy it, vote to kick, blast their ass off the map with a barrel, or leave them to die. Really don't understand why this is such a contentious issue.
@magnetic_eye
8 ай бұрын
I think I fundamentally disagree with the "it's part of the game, so people can choose it and shouldn't face criticism from other players" argument, because we have things like nonconsensual speedrunning, aggroing too many packs by charging ahead of the group, or intentional triggering of Daemonhosts. These are things that are part of the game, but if you intentionally aggro too much when the group or your build aren't ready for it, will often wipe the mission. Or like with grims and DHs that aren't going down near instantly, adds tons of corruption and thus difficulty at the very least. Like, it's not a good choice in most situations and you deserve to catch flak to do it without the consent or at least warning to your party, and even if you're clutch as hell and never go down, you can get party members killed and then they literally sit there not getting to play, hoping you pull through. I joined a heresy mission where a truelevel 600+ zealot (so easily 1000 hours on that character) charged far ahead with Stealth, triggered a BoN and Daemonhost, and died while we struggled to catch up and kill everything he aggroed. We pulled through and recovered, but no fricking apology or explanation from the fool who tried to solo the mission and made it harder for everyone, and no idea if he was just trying to troll us or get us killed. To make matters worse, my game crashed on the final run to escape of that lengthened match, so i got absolutely nothing for my troubles when a normal run might have already finished 10 minutes earlier without his troll-like string of selfish and bad plays.
@voicecrackdt5412
8 ай бұрын
Picking up grims is much more rewarding in vermintide because it increases your chance of getting red gears with max stats instead of having to rely on RNG to give you a 380 rolls with perfect dump stat, also the max health reduction over time is really annoying, also picking up grims on Damnation is not worth it since half of the reward (Which is the extra XP) is completely worthless sicne we can't go pass 30 anyway, might as well roll extra docket reward perk for curios instead
@riukenavatar8625
8 ай бұрын
I wish people would just read the team before they grab grims. If we're doing well and you grab one, and then we fail, ok sure it happens. But if we were already scraping by and you grab one, you have taken an unnecessary risk. I quickplay most of the time for various reasons, and don't mind getting grims occasionally, but some folks are so dead-set on them they don't consider if the mission will even succeed at all.
@startjim123456
8 ай бұрын
i do not mind grims on any diffculty i just hate the corruption resistance WHY DO ARE THERE 2 TYPES its dum as hell
@MDMMaster1
8 ай бұрын
We didnt have this problem in VT2. Grims are just unworthwhile. Darktide is just stingy overall compared to their last game.
@effive7817
8 ай бұрын
I've specifically left a couple grimmers for dead. Ive only done it in very rare cases where I genuinely believe that player is more useful dead. Despite how meme worthy some hyperbolic examples are, Im being very literal. That rare player who explodes busters on me or team, ignores revives/rescues, deals low damage,takes frequent damage while using every medstation/medkit, and after all of those observed behavior, grabs a grim. Its so rare a player hits all categories, but Ive seen a couple, and won both games.
@Va11idus
8 ай бұрын
I don't like grims, and generally avoid picking them up. That said, I think it's silly to throw a fit about someone doing a side mission that YOU have the full power to avoid. The fact that this is even a discussion exposes a pretty ubiquitous societal entitlement that we as individuals express. If you don't like grims, don't join the mission. It sucks to fail a mission, but you are the only one responsible for joining a grim mission.
@WorldNetExplorer
8 ай бұрын
It's hard enough finding teams willing to pick up scriptures, much less grims. I have been in dozens of rounds now where the team is fully non-communicative and does not respond to text or voice. In my own self interest in completing the contracts, I just don't care and grab it anyway. If they aren't geared to fight grim corruption, they should have said so.
@Yorushima
8 ай бұрын
I'd argue that the grim retrieval special operation proposal's a bit too difficult to be considered by the player base, and making it into a special op like with the Karnak twins would severely limit its usability in the game. I'm not a dev but I'm inclined to assume that if you plan to diminish the frequency of a feature in the game (one that isn't actually poorly received, else everyone would avoid it with no room for discussion), you may as well remove it entirely. (Also, making a corruption mechanic that is separate from the existing corruption mechanic is a disaster waiting to happen so I'd recommend not going there) The concept is interesting though. If it were me, I'd extend "Grim Retrieval" to be a mission modifier with increased rewards, but the difference is that grimoires mitigate/concentrate the level-wide corruption to the players holding it and impose handicaps on them randomly like increased career skill cooldown, disabled blitz, poor block efficiency, and increased aggro (to the point that you are guaranteed to pull a daemonhost unless you dispose of the grimoire). If disposed of or lost due to death of the holder, the grimoire can reappear further into the map to be retrieved but if missed, it won't reappear and the team will suffer the level-wide corruption to the end of the run because it's no longer being mitigated. This would make teams more strongly consider carrying grimoires (otherwise suffer corruption effects) and could justify players building curios focused on corruption resistance if they need to be dedicated grim-holders.
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