Whenever I go into a negotiation I always remember the saying "you can Shear a sheep many times you can skin him only once"
@MsElijah16
4 жыл бұрын
Ben Nunyour what does that mean?
@terrysullivan1992
4 жыл бұрын
True, but you can't eat wool and a perfectly cooked lamb roast is delicious.
@psidvicious
4 жыл бұрын
@@MsElijah16 I think the implication is more in line with the fable of the ‘Goose that laid the golden eggs’. If you slaughter the sheep and get a few meals out of it, you’ll be ok in the short run, but if you’re patient and just continue to shear the sheep season after season, you will be better off in the long run. [presumably selling/trading the shorn wool for an adequate amount of food instead of a one time feast]
@MsElijah16
4 жыл бұрын
psidvicious fair enough I get it
@FootballerUSA
4 жыл бұрын
I would love to hear Mrs. EC speak about her life experiences, especially concerning the stresses and blessings associated with a blue collar family. On the same note, from anyone's perspective, what are the struggles of raising a family and maintaining a relationship with a spouse while worrying about money, or working overtime, etc.?
@kmagnussen1052
4 жыл бұрын
My wife and I worked out a standard operating procedure to bust high pressure sales. As soon as they stated a time limit like sale ends today. We would tell him that we had a three day rule where we always took three days to analyze the deal. Then we put it to the sales person could you extend the sale three days, ask your boss? If no, we would leave. Most would extend the sale time just for us. That told us they would surrender the high pressure high ground. This was also used to avoid impulse sales.
@royreynolds108
4 жыл бұрын
Good advice. Wish we had done that on several occasions.
@firemanj35
4 жыл бұрын
Lesson I learned trying to be good to friends/people saying they are on hard times. My Pops told me stick to your guns your quality of work will get you return customers. Always do your best, don't cheapen yourself.
@SamuelLarsonAdventures
4 жыл бұрын
Anyone else love when Scott says “automobile”?
@jeffputnam8554
4 жыл бұрын
Understanding the cost of running your business, market trends, and as Nate said, "Street smarts doctorate" which could be implied "emotional IQ", and mortality all factor into the equation. Once you learn how to read people and personality types and understand that the ratio of 50% success in getting new clients you bid work for is acceptable, business management did become less stressful. We always tried to exceed expectations and keep new clients by providing quick service, and good workmanship and material. I never did try to hide who I was or cared what others thought about what I drove, nor did I ever quite working in the trenches when I had employees. I loved the challenges of being in business and now that I am retired I miss it but don't need or want the challenge anymore. Keep the videos coming guys.
@matsherwood6277
4 жыл бұрын
My dad is a great salesman/ negotiator. Thankfully I've picked up on that pretty well I think. A good negotiation really seems to center around good people skills and a strong backbone. A willingness to walk away always helps.
@roccoconte2960
4 жыл бұрын
I learned to get up and walk away from those kind of people , you will never win and they will agravate you to death, i always give people the best deal i can and make a descent days pay and everbody is happy.
@kengamble8595
4 жыл бұрын
I've always looked at it being a good negotiation when BOTH parties can walk away with a FAIR deal! Thanks for sharing and take care. 👍
@royreynolds108
4 жыл бұрын
True.
@ac170
4 жыл бұрын
I liked Nate's comment on coming into a negotiation as the underdog rather than trying to seem more than you may be. When buying, negotiating on the attributes of a item of service is often just inviting an argument, whereas no-one can tell you you can afford more or less. When selling it is a process of exploring what the customer wants, and making sure that you have covered both the things they identify, and those things they want or need but have not identified upfront. Only when you have those needs clear can you even begin to talk price. We have been in equipment distribution for a long time, and someone is always cheaper. The challenge is to be better in your product, and execution. Repeat business is our bread and butter.
@z06doc86
4 жыл бұрын
When hiring a tradesman for a particular job/project, it is far more important to me to have a job skillfully performed with excellent craftsmanship than getting the cheapest price. I will gladly pay more for a superior outcome versus nickel and dime negotiating tactics and getting an inferior result. If you are lucky, you get what you pay for. If someone exceeds my expectations, I generally show my appreciation with a few unexpected $$$ on the side. Quality work is hard to come by these days. Thanks for your excellent videos! The spec house is looking great.
@MattsAwesomeStuff
4 жыл бұрын
Storytime: I have a friend who buys and sells a lot of stuff. To someone who does it often (every week) versus occasionally (like a garage sale) it's a measurable amount of time. You don't want to sit on everything for weeks to milk every penny. Sometimes he just doesn't want to put that much effort in. Sometimes he wants a quick turnaround. He picked up an RV for cheap at auction, then went to resell it. His ad said something like: "$8500 firm. $11000 OBO." $11000 was probably a fair price, $8500 was still a lot more than he paid but was a great deal to anyone who's not hustling and finding the best deals all week long. Buyer asks to see it. Okay, friend sets time aside to meet him. Buyer drives it around a bit, likes it. Negotiation time. Buyer says "Well, how about $7500?". Friend says: "Nope. Price is $11000 now." "How about $8000?", "Nope. $11000". "$11000? You said $8500!". "It was $8500 firm. You want to make an offer, I'll start at $11000". Buyer grumps around, says "Fine. $8500". "Nope. Price is $11000 now. You've wasted my time. Now I'll wait for the right price." Buyer throws a fit and leaves. As friend tells the story, "He was still mad when he paid me $11000 for it the next day."
@royreynolds108
4 жыл бұрын
Cool story. Buyer could have had it for $8500 but because he wanted to dicker, he wound up paying $11000. My wife and I were on a trip in Mexico, just across the border, and were looking at things in shops. I saw a pair of silver earrings I thought would look nice on her and she would like so I asked the lady if she would take $3 less than was marked and she said yes. I paid her and she told my wife "He bargained for them" which was a complement. I did not try to go half or less but I figured I could ask and it worked. We had been told they like to bargain.
@candace3676
4 жыл бұрын
Love the summary of Jordan Peterson's child-rearing. Brilliant. Thanks for summarizing a bit of the Rational Optimist. I needed to hear about that book today.
@steveuible5915
4 жыл бұрын
Great podcast as usual. I love your banter. There are tons of books and materials on negotiation, but the best I have ever seen is from The Black Swan Group. Chris Voss is the CEO and is a former hostage negotiator for the FBI. His book “Never Split The Difference” is a must-read.
@janderson8401
4 жыл бұрын
What .scott said about both sides being willing to deal with each other a second time is Adam Smith’s enlightened self interest in a nutshell. My dad was not a negotiator. When he bought our first new car he went to three car dealerships, Ford, Chevy, and Plymouth, told the salesmen what he was looking for, and that didn’t think there was a nickel worth of difference between the three makes, and he would be buying from whoever gave him the best price. A week or two after buying the Ford, he got a call from the Plymouth salesman, who said after learning he had lost the sale,”Why didn’t you come back to me, I could have beaten that price.” One of my mentors in contracting who also did a lot of buying and selling of real estate and antique cars would often say that a thing is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it. One last story. A neighbor of my parents had a reputation for hiring contractors and only paying 90% of the agreed price. No contractor ever seemed to want to work there twice. My uncle Art noticed that finally a contractor had done two or three jobs for this customer. Art asked him if he was getting paid in full. The contractor said no, Mr. Cheapskate was still holding back 10% and writing paid in full on the memo line of the check, but after being burned the first time he adjusted his mark-up so that he actuall got paid more than he would have.
@carpentry1205
4 жыл бұрын
Man, this podcast nails it. Thank you, The Essential Craftsman, his family and production team. This is honest, objective, fantastic content and appreciate this very much.
@Gnarmac2k
4 жыл бұрын
The best class in my MBA was on negotiations. Biggest take away for me was the idea of a BATNA (best alternative to negotiates agreement). Negotiations are always easiest when you know in the back of your head you have a great alternative. Something else I heard that I think is basically right: a fair negotiation is when both parties walk away feeling slightly ripped off. Not ideal but it’s been true for me many times.
@tonydanzl
4 жыл бұрын
It also helps to know (or remenber) who you're negotiating with. For instance, when selling your service or product to a "Used Car Dealer" , come in high on your initial price. They ALWAYS will feel the need to talk you down ! And in my experience, Doctors and Lawyers (people with money who know the system)seem to be the ones with whom you need a strong written contract & more money down/up front . They seem to love to "re-negotiate" or push it to court collection process AFTER the job is completed .
@CoDCharlie1
4 жыл бұрын
At 1:35 you basically quoted the economic "law" of trade, which states "both parties expect to benefit from a trade or will not do business with each other"
@jonathanmaness9815
4 жыл бұрын
I highly recommend the book Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss. Would love to hear your thoughts on it!
@TheBeowulf55
4 жыл бұрын
Really good conversation! I'm a longtime subscriber of the essential craftsman and started watching these too they're great of course. I really enjoyed getting to know more about Nate's real estate activities in AZ. I think a whole episode on that would be really interesting (apologies if you've already done it) and I know it could make another interesting video series that I would definitely watch too. Thanks for the wisdom
@ryanfields5181
4 жыл бұрын
I really enjoy the conversations, keep up the good work y'all!
@chrishykey4996
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah T T
@KyleStanulis
4 жыл бұрын
Please more of these style of pod casts. Learned so much from this!
@KITLEVEY
4 жыл бұрын
For me it comes down to reading people and knowing the value of what we are talking about. I don't worry about not coming to terms. Sometimes it goes down and sometimes it doesn't.
@stpittard
4 жыл бұрын
I can appreciate how I interpreted Scott's description of a negotiation about a construction project. I'm a software engineer and it is quite often unattainable to agree accurately upon a complete specification at project onset that both parties don't anticipate refinements. While software, by definition, is malleable - it can be blessed due to ability to quickly refine - it can also find it's implementers enter into a perpetual cycle of re-negotiation. What typically occurs is the incremental product is presented to the client who becomes increasingly aware of just how malleable the change process is. If respected by both parties what changes incur, it works well. Otherwise, not so much.
@matthewhall5571
4 жыл бұрын
Scott Pittard hence the classic old saying: If builders built buildings the way programmers programmed programs, the first woodpecker in existence would destroy all of civilization.
@stpittard
4 жыл бұрын
@@matthewhall5571 I hadn't heard that one but quite very appropriate.
@dabeamer42
4 жыл бұрын
another programmer here...if I had a proverbial nickle for every time I heard "how hard would it be to ______" (whatever change to the code that just popped into their head)... Or "how much work would it be..." And like Scott said he was, I think that programmers by nature want to please people. How hard? Not very...I can do that in a half-hour. Do that a dozen times, and you've got a lot more than 6 hours worth of work. "Scope creep" is the ugliest reality in our business.
@carlislehendersonthethird7799
4 жыл бұрын
I just jumped into and subscribed to EC2. Fantastic “sub-channel”. Recommendation for the book club- The Millionaire Next Door. Might have the wording wrong on the title but it’s a solid piece of literature. Read that years ago and thought it was a bunch on nonsense (Mostly) until I a banker. Definitely plays into one of your more recent podcasts about living/operating within your means. That book is loaded full of crazy insane real life stories from millionaires about people and their money and this banker’s husband can tell you they are all stone cold facts.
@davidmorse6168
4 жыл бұрын
Thanks for being real! It's refreshing. Always look forward to your next offering.
@MattsAwesomeStuff
4 жыл бұрын
Nate: The cumulative effective on your approach to others, of being pushed around in your past, will result in a weakened, self-sabotaged position. You could fix this internally, to try to counteract the effect of the subconscious and continuously redefine for yourself who you are and how you want to behave, or, you could fight it upfront externally against those that push you around. The former is more difficult. The latter is more enjoyable. But the latter has a secondary benefit, it makes the world a better place. So many people are so timid to avoid conflict, that the arrogant often have their way with others. And like a alleyway mugger, each successful attempt emboldens them to treat more people this way. Having a deal fall through because they nickled and dimed you is going to have them holdin' the bag, so to speak. It changes their behavior and makes it easier for the next person they deal with. You don't need a camera, and there are other cameras out there. I say let this owner sulk.
@derekrosecrans1361
4 жыл бұрын
This skill is absolutely priceless. I just under bid a job. Not going to be the end of the world, but dang it hurts and lessoned learned.
@thomasanderson6008
4 жыл бұрын
I just had a bunch of landscaping done, and the person I hired was lowest bid for first stage, and they bid $700 & that was under bid for 4 guys working a 12 hr. Day at my house and hauling away truck load of debis, and cleaning up, next 2 bids were $1800 & $2600. But because they did great work at a great price, I had them bid the next 4 stages, which are much more expensive and profitable portions of the project... and im going to use them, and I have recommended them to several friends and will continue to.... so they either broke even, or smaller margin then they expected for a family business... but they will make up for it with repeat business, and referrals
@jphickory522
4 жыл бұрын
Good job Tom. That was the right thing to do
@michaeldougfir9807
3 жыл бұрын
Along with other work I have been an arborist since the 1980s. Pricing: my work has always been hard to put a price on it. Both of my wives have said I do not charge enough and that I give too much away. I really want the clien t to be happy. Both by the quality work and the good price. I get repeat customers regularly. But now I need another sprayer tank and more chemicals. I have yet to find the balance.
@jasonswoger410
4 жыл бұрын
Q&A with Nate and Vladimir
@RayWilliamJohansen
4 жыл бұрын
When I give estimates I do my best to be on time, smell nice, be clean, and to listen to the customer. I do my best to ask certain questions, look at the owners home and pick up cues as to whether this person takes short cuts, whether or not he is on a budget and his personality.
@spenmac
4 жыл бұрын
@Scott, do it buy the camera but only when the price is less than than Nate was going to pay. And then tell the guy he should have sold it to Nate!
@calebmattix391
4 жыл бұрын
Nate handled that like a boss!!
@martinl2930
4 жыл бұрын
Just subscribed to this on Apple Podcasts! Thanks guys and keep up the good work.
@jum5238
4 жыл бұрын
My brother is one who WILL. NOT. take a loss, and will whittle everything possible out of you... even to family members. And he sells used cars, and there have been times I needed something in an emergency (daughter wrecked her car and needed something immediately to get to work), and the vehicle was falling apart and not road safe. And he takes advantage of others when they're desperate by putting them into loans that are predatory in nature, to where they drop payments after a few months, and then resells the car again... and again... And I've just learned to stay away from him. And he occasionally offers to do something for me... but... I'm always wondering where the knife is going to come from and where it will land. What strings are attached... And I hate dealing with him in any aspect of life, because that's just the way he rolls. I honestly don't know if he's capable of anything difference, because he HAS TO WIN. And you know... I don't think he's very happy. He thinks he is, but... man, he has the local municipality after him for several different things, and he defends himself in court because he's too cheap (and by now, pretty experienced) to hire a lawyer. He has to do everything himself. This is a great topic, and I'd like to hear more about Nate's friend and his methods. (Vladimir) And I think a GREAT part of that topic should be the cultural components of negotiating. I get that Scott take pride in his work, and has stated his desire to please others, and setting a higher price helps him accomplish what he needs, and takes care of himself. But there are some in different cultures where haggling is a way of life, and is quite expected, and to Nate's point in this situation... know what YOU'RE willing to pay for it, or get for it, and stick with it. Be flexible, but not desperate. And don't change the rules. I'm with you guys. I've had things misrepresented to me, drove a ways and found out it wasn't worth what the agreed price was. I've also had a few car sellers try to unload cars with serious engine problems to me, and I've learned to not bother to negotiate. Point out what the problem is and walk away. It's not even worth negotiating with people who weren't honest to begin with, and they won't possibly come down in price enough to be worth the headache to fix the deficiencies. The price of peace is immeasurable.
@EC2
4 жыл бұрын
These are some great points - thanks for sharing Ju M!
@psidvicious
4 жыл бұрын
Reading the description of your brother kinda saddened me on the one hand, but on the other hand made me very thankful that my relationships with my siblings is nothing like that. I would be at a loss on how to deal with that. But I have to assume you’ve figured out how to work in that kind of family dynamic. I guess the positive spin to that is, whenever you have to interact with your brother, you know right from the word go, from experience, who you’re dealing with and that he likely doesn’t have your best or even fair intentions in mind. So he might as well leave the ‘sheeps clothing’ at home.
@jum5238
4 жыл бұрын
@@psidvicious it is sad. And basically, I'm cordial, aloof, and let him talk. I try not to offer up anything where there is any vulnerability. I don't say much about anything I'm going through as brothers should. Zero trust. And I stay out of his business. (I have no respect for him as a person, or his ethics.)
@usdpaulp
4 жыл бұрын
This was a great episode.
@TheKenstarr
4 жыл бұрын
That book sounds interesting! I've read the Origins of Virtue (also by Matt Ridley) and I really enjoyed it and recommend it
@dominosgarage
4 жыл бұрын
Love your guys' podcast. Keep it up. I just wish that they were longer.
@rustyshackleford5060
4 жыл бұрын
Keep up the good work!
@scullerlmt
3 жыл бұрын
Best negotiation....both people think they've gotten the best or at least a very satisfactory deal. Win/Win
@firemanj35
4 жыл бұрын
Great job guys
@MrDerekmoney
4 жыл бұрын
Add a soda into any deal with Scott and i think you've got a deal
@jackcorwin2906
4 жыл бұрын
If your price is too high, your story is too short.
@knotbumper
4 жыл бұрын
The age old conundrum: The customer wants the most for the least and the contractor/supplier (of anything) wants to provide the minimum for the most. That is why I only worked with the tools, and never became a contractor. I was and still am a terrible negotiator, my wife does all the negotiating and does it well. I roll over too easy.
@psidvicious
4 жыл бұрын
Some people ‘live’ for the negotiation. Not me. I’ve known ‘that guy’ that Nate was describing at ~3:00 and I’ll typically walk to the other side of the street just to keep from having to pass them by. I consider myself ok at negotiating, when it HAS to be done, but I never relish the thought of it. Let’s call it what it really is - The word ‘negotiate’ is really just a nice way of saying ‘argue’. I guess that’s why driving a vehicle for 10 years is not unusual for me. The up side to that is, after 10 years I’m ready to fork-out cash for another vehicle, saving me money in the long run. So my aversion to arguing actually makes me the winner!
@rmc8152
4 жыл бұрын
Great topic.
@BenAlvarado1959
4 жыл бұрын
I am not a Negotiator, and I don't like it when a Salesman tries to sell me something as I do not like listening to a Sales Pitch. I expect Real and Honest information about the product and that information made easily available to me, not Sales/Marketing B.S. and I expect a Fair price up front not someone trying to sell it to me for the Highest price they think they can get from me. If I am selling something then I am going to list it at what I think is a fair price for both myself and the buyer and I expect the same when I am buying something. I've been in the Pro Audio and AV industry for over 40 years, back in the 80's I left the first company I worked for and for a number of years contacted installation and service of audio systems. When I would provide quotes I'd have some that always wanted to try to get me to come down on price or throw in something extra at no charge. At first I'd find myself giving in trying to keep work. Most of the time I would regret giving in, found that most of those jobs just really where not worth having been done due to the extra time, stress, nearly always complained about something and slow to pay final bill even though they got more than they where paying for.
@lpcc4010
4 жыл бұрын
Brought to you by Pepsi!
@diffperspectiveok
4 жыл бұрын
I think Scott would agree with Steve Farrar's book Point Man though it wouldn't necessarily fit your channel topics.
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