The correct 455 Pontiac bore and stroke dimensions are 4.151" bore and 4.210" stroke. Great video!
@harryking4007
3 ай бұрын
Yes thank you that is correct . I was going to ad that fact also.
@fiream773
10 жыл бұрын
Thank you for posting this. As a lifelong Pontiac person, it amazes me how many people who don't even own a Pontiac want to argue with me over the whole "Big Block" thing. For those utterly preoccupied with size, there's "Large Journal" 421-455 and "Small Journal" 400-down referring to the 3.25" or 3" crankshaft journal size. I've given up trying to convince the Big/Small guys on Pontiac V8's - let 'em flaunt their "knowledge". Apparently, Pontiac made it so simple it's confusing. Couple points on the video: 421 was made through '66 and optional in full-size cars (Catalina, Bonneville, Grand Prix). There were Super Duty (VERY rare and expensive) and H.O versions made as well. Also, the 350 H.O. of '68-'69 is probably one of the most underrated Pontiac performance engines ever produced. It used the Ram Air III cam, heads, intake and carb and due to its lower reciprocating weight, was a much freer revving engine than the 400. It's downfall was a lack of promotion and timing - cubes were king when it was introduced. Had it come out around '71, things may have been very different. Another important fact often overlooked by non-Pontiac people - Pontiac V8's are NOT high-revving horsepower engines! They are low revving TORQUE engines. Pontiacs respond much better with relatively conservative cam selection and 3.90 or lower gears. I've gone 13.83 @ 102 mph in a 3,800 pound, 400-powered Trans Am with 3.23 gears.
@davecalvo6418
3 жыл бұрын
What a great video, I'm a huge Pontiac guy and I have a 301ci (blown from my TA) and i replaced it with a 1968 400 HO and this engine is ballsy as hell!. Many people refer to the Pontiac engine as an "Intermediate" block. I will say that the RAM AiR IV (if you can find one is a rare engine with many custom parts like the heads which are round port and the forged cranks which are 4 bolt mains along with other upgrades and they went like hell but super rare. I think they only made 580 or so. The 455 cu engines both the HO and later the Super Duty engines had relatively low compression 8.4:1 to meet new emissions laws but made gobs of torque and were some of the best high HP motors Pontiac made in the early 70's I'm sorry you had to deal with that knucklehead claiming they made a big block, he is obviously clueless.
@danielboone72
4 жыл бұрын
You are absolutely correct about the Pontiac blocks. The 421 was produced from 1963-66. (1962 for racing) The 421 was an option to the 389 which was standard on the full size cars.
@MrLostonej
7 жыл бұрын
hey how about doing one on Pontiac heads. .the good the bad...thanks.
@doomman700
3 жыл бұрын
Wallace racing has a nice list of them
@kukamungaphobia924
2 жыл бұрын
KRE warp 6 ram air V heads the best of the best.
@dutchylt
2 жыл бұрын
@@kukamungaphobia924 what do you base this on?
@alanmeyers3957
4 ай бұрын
@@kukamungaphobia924smoking crack, everyone knows the big block 455 head is the best.
@letitrest4662
4 жыл бұрын
The only bad thing about the larger displacement Pontiac engines is that they have relatively short connecting rods, for the amount of crank stroke they have. Translated, cylinder wall side loading, and wear, which leads to oil burning after about 60,000 miles. Other than that, they are torque monsters. In fact a Pontiac regular production car had a Road and Track Magazine record for 0-60 mph. It was a 1963(?) full size Pontiac, with the 421 tri-power setup. The Pontiacs and the big Olds engines made lots of torque. Both were prone to burn oil as they built mileage, compared to others.
@russbonneau9152
Жыл бұрын
that's interesting to know about the sideloading. are the 455's immune from that?
@nicholaseliasson2308
6 жыл бұрын
Appreciate such a brief, yet well-detailed video. God bless you #MakePontiacGreatAgain 🇺🇸
@LasthourET
10 жыл бұрын
This is the first step I go to when I want to know something ! Best channel
@Myvintageiron7512
10 жыл бұрын
Yes pontiac made an overhead cam inline 6 way ahead of its time
@stevecobratei8538
10 жыл бұрын
two different versions, the standard OHC 6(2bbl) and the Sprint OHC 6 (4bbl and bigger cam).
@Two90west
9 жыл бұрын
i wanna clean up my engine bay with a little shine, do you have any info on companies with air cleaner and valve cover kits in chrome for a 265 pontiac, or will any one fit from a 350 on up to a 455
@Myvintageiron7512
9 жыл бұрын
HMM Id look on ebay
@jonmac155
7 жыл бұрын
"Firebird indeed came with a 250 cubic inch OHC inline six known today as the Pontiac "Cammer." The Cammer was the brainchild of John Z. DeLorean when he headed Pontiac's advanced engineering team in the early 1960s. DeLorean wanted to build a sports car powered by an advanced inline six, and he tasked engine designer Malcom McKeller with creating the motor." - Road & Track
@Myvintageiron7512
7 жыл бұрын
That is correct I am planning on building one of them in a video sreies
@robertt6327
6 жыл бұрын
Great blog! It's encouraging to see a guy that knows what he is talking about, Thank you.
@mercmarc
9 жыл бұрын
The 428 and 455 blocks had larger crankshaft journals than the smaller cid engines. So I suppose a more accurate description would be small or large journal blocks.
@jackmehoff4613
7 жыл бұрын
Correct. Except you forgot the 421 had the large journal too.
@mercmarc
7 жыл бұрын
I forgot about the 421. I guess because they're not as common.
@terrypetty9822
6 жыл бұрын
And short or tall decks.
@maxxmasson4263
6 жыл бұрын
youre right I believe the 421 also had the 3.25 mains and the other blocks had the 3 inch journals
@1575murray
3 жыл бұрын
@@maxxmasson4263 The 421 and 428 are less common than the 455 because they were only sold in the larger cars since GM had displacement limits on the popular intermediate cars which made up a lot of Pontiac sales in the 1960s. I used to see a lot of Tempest/Le Mans/GTO cars with the 326/389 or inline 6 engines but not nearly as many larger cars back in the day.
@michaelstrafello8025
4 жыл бұрын
I remembered this at my firs job in 75 I worked for a Chevy dealer and I asked a seasoned mechanic that use to work for Pontiac and all he said was they are all the same there is no big block
@72troy455
6 жыл бұрын
1973 SD455 engine probably has the most potential out of the Pontiacs. Just needs some compression and a big cam.
@broski6627
5 жыл бұрын
midnitesquirldog1 fr? I would like to hear more bout that
@jessiesimpson316
5 жыл бұрын
The SD was the best overall design but smog killed it, the 1970 455 HO was the best of all factory 455's because it was the only non smog year 455.
@bluesman7475
4 жыл бұрын
The sd 455 was made in 73 and 74. There was no converter until 75. I had a 74 sd455 I bounght new. The cam was the same as a ram air 4... best cam ever in a pontiac motor. The problem was the exhaust system. The muffler was sideways between trunk and back seat. By removing the factory exhaust, adding hooker headers and thrush mufflers .. you gained 100 hp. I changed the gears from 308 to 372, added a b+m converter and shift kit and removed the plate from he hood scoop to make the ram air functional. The car would run 12.20 s all day long.
@mitchelmcgarry1718
8 жыл бұрын
100 percent right I'm 30 been restoring Pontiacs since I was 17 all motors are the same platform for the most part always loved the brand easy to interchange parts thanks for calling it out
@BADD400
9 жыл бұрын
The 301T block is stronger than the 301 naturally aspirated 301. There are some people in the 11s-12s look at the 301 garage forum. great vid.
@gmccrarygm
3 жыл бұрын
so this is probably the main reason I hear the term "large displacement" being used for Pontiac engines in all types of other videos and media on the subject? makes perfect sense now. Thanks for the info!
@originalpunkSxE
9 жыл бұрын
Great info man. I'm a Pontiac guy myself, and I've had a couple of the engines you talked about, including a couple 301s and the lowly 265. It's true they were turds, but most Pontiac parts (including heads) would bolt up. Because of the shortened deck height, however, once new heads were on there was no intake in the world that would fit. If you want to build one, find a 400 from '67 to '73. The later ones went through some lightening and therefore lost a little strength. Great engine though. I have a 400 now and even stock with a 2bbl it still moves
@archittt1
4 жыл бұрын
Exactly. Unlike other manufacturers, Pontiac didn't need to design new blocks to get more power, They got it right the first time right out of the gate.
@zanevanderhulst4301
5 жыл бұрын
So my logic says that a 455 will fit into the same trans am as a 301, correct?
@sierraridgereaper
3 жыл бұрын
Yep..
@tomcherry7029
3 жыл бұрын
The 301 is a short deck so it the 265, it look like the block that you marked as a 350 have the larger mains which should be the other wat around . The 421,428 and 455 used 3.5 inch mains the rest used 3.0 inch. So there is a short deck , and a larger and small crnak bearring Pontiac.
@bryanguthrie-ej1fb
4 ай бұрын
Yup
@bernieladoucur8516
4 жыл бұрын
Thank you for the information on these kinds of engines. I am going to be working on a friends car. He is the same mind set as that viewer that thought of big block. I am not a Pontiac guy or even a Chevy guy but I will help him out. I am a ford guy building a 460 ford right now and I will be sending it out to the machine shop to get all ready. If you have any tips for me on that or maybe things to watch for from the machine shop that would be great. Thank you again for sharing.
@allenblackman1459
7 жыл бұрын
You are right, No big no small, just different bore & stroke. The only differences being internal
@roddprice9704
5 жыл бұрын
Great video. Could ve mentioned 421, 428 and 455 crank journal diameter being 3.25" versus 3" for 400s and smaller as a dimensional change internally but keep up the good work.
@enthusiasticpaunch
2 жыл бұрын
My Dad had a couple of 64 Tempests, one with a 326. I got this talk when I was young because I remarked unknowingly that it was "probably the same" as a 327 Chevy. Hah. I remember one car had no front end and he got it home at night with a couple flashlights and magnets.
@derrickodyes1934
8 жыл бұрын
good info yes no big and small blocks but we refer to them as big and small journal. Being 3.00" up to 400 and 3.25" for 421 428 and 455. Big journal engines had excessive friction drag so hot ticket is to turn a big journal crank down to 3.00" and fit into a small journal engine essentially stroking it. All rods are the same 326 to 455 but pistons varied
@w41duvernay
7 жыл бұрын
You are now better off getting a Butler performance stroker kit for the 400 3" main and stroking it. Pontiac magazine had a bit of a controversy over turning down the crank size of a 455 crank to fit the 3" main size.
@timothyheller2580
5 ай бұрын
Sir you are absolutely right about pontiac engine's I have a. 030 400 in a 79 transam runs awesome
@timreichert9982
6 жыл бұрын
The stroke on the 455 is 4.21", you said 4.00".
@scottmcgehee2933
4 жыл бұрын
The way you differentiate the smaller cubic inches vs the large is by calling them small journal or big journal. I believe 421 ci on up is called large journal. 400 on down small journal. I'm not sure what journal means though. I have heard of it referenced like that thru the years
@Tomahawk455
9 жыл бұрын
I'm so glad you made this video. There are some ignorant people out there. The only thing i saw wrong with the video is the 455 actually has a 4.21 inch stroke, not a 4 inch stroke. I have a 455 and I love it! Pontiac's are torque monsters.
@ramairgto72
9 жыл бұрын
As cool as it would be to have a 455, the crank mains are bringing it down. A 400 with the bore and stroke on the small crank is the way to do it. Less friction, better oiling. Whats the 455 in?
@Tomahawk455
9 жыл бұрын
Go to my page and check it out. Its in a 80 Trans Am. I understand the 3" main is a better performer under rpm. But my engine makes plenty of power below 5500. I have no issues. I utilize the long stroke to make gobs of torque.
@dutchylt
2 жыл бұрын
Also the 400 was made until 79, not 78.
@jimroy969
2 жыл бұрын
78 was the last year. Around 8000, 1978 400 ci engines were mated to 4 speed standard transmissions and stock piled. These were installed in the 1979 Trans am .
@hydroy1
2 жыл бұрын
@@ramairgto72 YOU understand grasshopper. You can wind up a small journal 400 four bolt main Pontiac ( AKA WW stamped Ram Air 4 ) with a aftermarket forged crank & rods waaaaaaay beyond any 455 with a forged crank & rods and the power is more than enough with a 400 to pull more horse power because the 400 cranks are so heavy that they really turn on AFTER 7,500rpm !. This is why the ultimate Pontiac motor of them ALL if you get rid of the factory cast crank & rods and use a forged crank & rods is the tunnel port Ram Air V 400 even out doing the 455/421 Super Dutys by alot. ( I never thought I would even find anyone but ME that knew this!)
@libertycosworth8675
9 ай бұрын
Good video - just one thing - as others have noted. The 455 stroke is 4.21" not 4.00". The 455 was oversquare - in that it's stroke was longer than the bore. It was the first Pontiac V8 to be built as an oversquare engine. This makes the 455 unique among the Pontiac engines, and also unlike the other similar 3.25" main journal engines, the 421 and 428 which were were both undersquare, with a 4" stroke and 4.094 and 4.121" bores respectively.
@Myvintageiron7512
10 жыл бұрын
The 301 Pontiac was a complete terd don't waste your time
@pavielleevans2553
9 жыл бұрын
my 301 runs pretty damn good
@pavielleevans2553
9 жыл бұрын
Lol your opinion but I'm not saying its better I'm just telling my 301 run pretty good that's all
@jbncnow
8 жыл бұрын
+Myvintageiron7512 But the 301 is durable as hell its just not very strong, i had a buddy who had this ole le mans and it had 300,000 miles on it, it was no speed demon but it did last as long as you change the oil regularly.
@pavielleevans2553
8 жыл бұрын
Thank you jay bradley it's done the job so far so I have no complaints
@bishai
8 жыл бұрын
+Pavielle Evans My dad drove a '77 Buick LeSabre with the 301 Pontiac engine ("Y" code in the VIN) which he then gave to me. It wasn't quick, but it was smooth as butter and very reliable.
@Kevinegan1
5 жыл бұрын
I had a Pontiac big block 350 engine that I rebuilt at my high school back in 1979. I know he said that there has never been a big block Pontiac engine but when I removed the slant 6 out of my $150.00 1969 Firebird and then tried cramming in that 350 with headers in its place, I could have sworn that damned Pontiac 350 block doubled in size. The closer I got to the car the bigger that block got. I finally got it in there. I bought the 1969 Firebird from an ad in the paper (no internet back then). The man selling it was an airline pilot. It was listed in the paper for $150.00. Turns out that one of the exhaust valves had burned causing the Slant 6 not to run very good. When I went to pick up the car the owner (the pilot) was not there but his daughter and wife were there. I gave them a check for the $150.00, got the title and drove it home. Two weeks later I get a check in the mail from the pilot. In the letter, he apologizes for his wife and daughter, saying that they over-charged me for the car. Along with the letter was a check for $75.00. I was 16 then. When I was 18 wound-up getting rid of the car and regretted for over thirty years. Then I did some looking around and located the man that bought the car from me. He was going to restore it but never did. My 1969 Firebird has been sitting in a field about 100 miles away for the last 30 years. I told the man that I really wanted to restore it. The following week the man delivered my Firebird. He didn't charge me for the car or the haul. I checked archived vehicle registrations and the car is still under my name.
@19211265
5 жыл бұрын
Excellent 👏🏻 well said!!! Finally some one who knows what he’s talking about! New subscriber👍🏻
@danielboone72
4 жыл бұрын
People who argue and criticize about trivial things like this, need to get a life! You are correct about Pontiac motors! And YOU sound like a real expert on these things! I've learned a LOT about motors, and you explain things very well. Thanks! Keep up the good work!
@warrennelson5133
8 жыл бұрын
Many thanks for doing this video. I'm an engineer and had a 1967 GTO when I was in school from 69 to 72. Unfortunately it overheated and blew up in 1973 and I had to find a replacement 400 for the car. It was difficult at the time because the crank shaft rear bearing for the Munci 4 speed I had was different than the automatic so I learned more than I wanted to know back then putting the engine back together. Today I have a restored Eldorado I take to car shows but can't tell you how many times I've had this discussion regarding the Pontiac block sizes especially with guys that have a 455. Many insist that the 389 that they put in the GTO in 1966 was a smaller block than the 400 for 67. I think in the future I'll take an IPad with me with the link to your video.
@chrisleggett685
2 жыл бұрын
About 1992 I had a 2 door,69 Chevelle I put a 2bbl 283 in,had a 3 on the tree and 3.08 gears. A fella showed up with a trans am with that turbo 301. All he could say was how fast a turbo made his car. So we went to an empty street to race. My 283 ate that 301! We are talking car lengths at the finish line lol
@72troy455
6 жыл бұрын
I remember seeing a RAM AIR 5 303cid in a drag car that made over 650HP. It revved 10,000 RPM. Hell of a engine.
@lifebiker105
6 жыл бұрын
had a 77 TA. pulled out the 400 put in a 1972 455 SD. stamped on block. that motor was FUN. Would wrinkle the Tires. hahaha.
@richardstrach6104
6 жыл бұрын
Olds and Buick did same gig a different way...no big or small
@cdglasser
3 жыл бұрын
Wrong. Buick most certainly had a small block (215, 300, 340, 350 cubic inches, 4.24" bore spacing) and a big block (400, 430, 455 cubic inches, 4.75" bore spacing). These block families share almost zero parts in common. The Buick V6 was derived from the Buick small block V8.
@bmck9097
4 жыл бұрын
This guy blows me away. Awesome.
@tomcherry7029
3 жыл бұрын
This guy needs to do his home work on Pontiacs.
@Formulabruce
7 жыл бұрын
Great Vid, and thanks for taking the time to make it! I will add this: Like Chevy, Pontiac made Small and Large journal Engines. People ask me I just say My Engine is a large Journal Pontiac Engine. I think, in an effort to put a Pontiac 455 Above a SBC, the "big Block" montra was expanded upon.. But maybe the Large and Small Journals is just too much for simple minds to grasp?? dunno.. just some thought. Keep up the good work!
@johnthompsonjr8257
Жыл бұрын
The internals makes the difference for Pontiac, Rod length 6.6250 for 326-455 blocks /stroke 3.7500 for 326-400 blocks/ 421,428 have 4.0000 stoke 455 has 4.2100 stroke and 3.2500 main journal . 326-400 has 3.0000 main journal . Looking at a pontiac block on the outside , you want know what size til you see it stamp on the block, check the numbers on the block or take off the intake to see the numbers stamp inside 00 (400)50 (350) 55 (455) . Pontiac all sizes into One Block !
@harryking4007
4 ай бұрын
Im also a devote Pontiac man.but i live by only one combination of Pontiac that never came from the factory......the high compression 455 with the ram air 4 camshaft 70 to 68 no.16 D port heads Supa killa! Of ford mopar or chevy!!! The ram air 4 455 ...the greatest!
@Myvintageiron7512
10 жыл бұрын
The Pontiac engines are in between the BBC and SBC size wise although the 455 has similar bore/stroke combo the casting number on the block is the best way to ID it
@andrewpipitone1572
Жыл бұрын
It is amazing how many new Pontiac lovers there are today. In my neighborhood people were into Chevys Fords, and dodge. There were only a few of us that had firebird. I had a formula 455 block. 4sp. I dove many other cars but this was the most fun and looded gorgeous in my eyes. Lol they say beauty is in the eyes of the beholder lol Well now there are alot of beholders 😂
@Myvintageiron7512
Жыл бұрын
I have always had a soft spot for Pontiac's I've done just about every engine from 301 to 455 strokers The Pontiac Engines were one of GM's better V8's Olds and Buick also had great 455's The Buick made to most TQ and it's very light, but the 455 Pontiac had the best HP rating
@stevens9762
6 жыл бұрын
Thank you for this video,I've been saying this for years
@voodoochild661
8 жыл бұрын
love this i was just about to write a comment about how there isn’t any differences for the most part. the only way pontiac could have a big block is if you race NHRA because anything over 400ci is considered a big block. great video!!
@mooch514
8 жыл бұрын
That's when gm and their divisions had their own engines. The good old days.
@johnpaulhickey2028
6 жыл бұрын
Thanks for a great video. I would like to see the same information about the Oldsmobile and Buick 350s and 455s.
@glennmanchester1568
5 жыл бұрын
Olds and Buick are the same way as Pontiac they all have the same block olds has one Buick etc they all share bell housing patterns bop. They called it
@nicholaseliasson2308
6 жыл бұрын
Appreciate your well-detailed video. God bless you.
@tomstulc9143
10 ай бұрын
Had a 68 GTO 400 HO. Bucket seats hurst gate shifter . At about 90 k had to bore it 60 over to clean up the taper. Added a bit bigger cam than factory. It was rocket ship. Brother had a simlar LeMans same color. It was a a tire burning delight also. My 400 was hard on crank shafts. I didn't know about nitriding crankshafts at the time. Brother in law had a 63 Bonnievile with a 421 4 speed HO belueve it had three duces carb arrangenen but not certain. Older brothers had a 66 temoedt with yhe 0verhead 6 sn three speed a yire burner also great ho to weight ratio.
@TBullCajunbreadmaker
4 жыл бұрын
I'm 67 years old and I knew about this Pontiac block thing before I ever got out of high school. I have always said that if you want a really dependable, strong, and capable engine that puts out a lot of horsepower without all kinds of mods to it, all you have to do is drop a Pontiac or Oldsmobile 455 engine into whatever you are running. I have always advocated the power of the 455. One of the best engines ever made. When I turned 18 years old I became a professional transfer driver for all of the dealerships in the southern region of the U.S. I drove just about everything you could imagine that ran on tires, sometimes short drives but sometimes many, many hundreds of miles all without stopping for anything except for fuel and pick up food on the go. It was one of the most enjoyable jobs I ever had and I was lucky to get the job. My biggest asset was to never open the trunk and keep my mouth shut if I had to open it and see what was in it. I also was never late and always on time. People would be amazed at what can be put in the trunk of a brand new Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight or Delta 88. The Buicks were about the same room size. Those 1970s model cars would really run through some miles and never strain those big 455s with the big ass quadrajet 4 barrels.
@MrRotaryrockets
5 жыл бұрын
Heh... I have a.. Big Block Pontiac... But it's a 396 BBC Stuffed into my 1968 Fire Bird..my kid Brother bought it for my 70 th Birthday .. when I was leaving High School I bought my Home room teachers 2 year old 1968 400 HO. 4 speed car . and every once in a while my younger Brother would miss the school bus and my mom would ask me to drive him to School and like always we would always meet the bus on the way there of course some were along the road we would have to Pass the bus and get my Brother to school Early...He loved that ride..I built it up,then drove it for 2 years then sold it to Finance my Trip to Europe in 1972..I always regretted selling it it was a Sweet car..
@PhilLaird
7 жыл бұрын
My 301 in my 81 Trans Am was a poor excuse for an engine. I ended up dropping a 455 in and it was a torque beast. 1981 was the first year they used a computer chip in the Trans Am and it was almost impossible to tune the car.
@snowman231968
4 жыл бұрын
In a little lighter car (GP) the 301 wasnt as bad...3200lbs vs the TA 3600lbs
@theeoddments960
4 жыл бұрын
brian r on paper maybe but the 301 is just a poor performer wit weak internals
@HeadFlowInc
10 жыл бұрын
Pontiac engine families are "Small Journal" ie 326,350,389, &400 main journal diameter 3.00" and the "Large Journal" 421, 428, 455 main journal diameter 3.25" NOTE: The 455 has a 4.21" stroke not the 4.00" in the video. I'm not 100% clear on whether the 421 was large or small may need to verify. I omitted the 301 because it was a worthless offering... lol Agreed there never was a Big Block or Small Block Pontiac...
@angelasmith8604
8 жыл бұрын
i think your 455 specs are wrong.
@Mebob2001
10 жыл бұрын
some people think they know everything... haha but that lession 350 head's! i really loved that!!!
@easleyautobodyeasleysc7375
8 жыл бұрын
421 Pontiac engine was built for several years,last one 1966,considered,to be Pontiac's best factory production engine of all,lots of history ,INC:the first NASCAR to go 150 on track,only half second slower than Ferrari,on test track in 1965, also,this 65 Catalina,4,200 pound car,was tested a 0-60 in just 3.9 seconds!!!! dyno tested 485 hp at the wheel !!!! this engine was the one to beat !!! soon came the 426 Hemi the 427 Chevy, the 427 ford ,Buick 430 ,Olds,455 rocket ,,NO SUCCESS !!!
@jessiesimpson316
5 жыл бұрын
Not true but the 455 was the best, only thing that killed the 455 was smog. 1970 455HO was the only good out of all the factory 455 only due to being the only non smog year for the 455 and was a faster engine than the 421. The RA 5 for all its versions was the best factory pontiac ever built. But no way the 421 was better than the 428 when they were the exact same stroke but the 428 has a bigger bore and the heads were designed differently in 1967 to improve performance. 👍
@harryking4007
3 ай бұрын
Yes the pontiac blocks are the same except rhe 301. The 301 block is only block different from the rest. Because the 301 has the shortest stroke of the 326 to 455 you can't interchange the other cranks to the 301 or vise versa.
@immanuelstrong8923
3 жыл бұрын
o yeah and you need to modify the block by grinding away some .so as you can fit a larger crank in there.
@billyjoejimbob56
11 ай бұрын
The one size fits all engine block sure stimulates discussion... years ago! Looks like the ultimate combination is an aftermarket 4 inch stroke forged crank with 3 inch main journals in a 400 Ram Air IV block with 4 bolt main caps, bored .030 over. Did I get it right? Here's a puzzle I still can't figure out: GM had four divisions each build a 350 cu.in. V8. When Pontiac engineers were done, the result was a 354 cu.in. engine (do the math) with a bore size that no other Pontiac V8 ever used, sold as a 350 engine for more than a decade.
@rickyhildebrand114
7 жыл бұрын
I refer to some as large displacement. You should also include in your discussion ,How to identify certain blocks by castings,and related markings such as Super Duty (SD)and the "Mountain" casting that's is located by the distributor on the "Larger Displaced" 455. as well as performance features such as the forged rods that were standard on early 60's models.
@Formulabruce
7 жыл бұрын
Journals, small and large Journal..
@stevearsenault4898
6 жыл бұрын
I agree the blocks are the same size externally , but i think you should have mentioned that the 455 HO block was reinforced in the lifter valley and other places that i can't for the life of me remember right now Lol , Love your stuff keep up the good work ! Oh yeah if you live in Canada you may remember the 400 American , It was a Pontiac 400 , but you were right about where it came from but so did the Chevy SB 400 ! Lol
@roberteiler1560
6 жыл бұрын
The only production 455 with reinforced lifter galley was the 455 SUPER Duty.
@stevearsenault4898
6 жыл бұрын
Robert Eiler yes I just looked it up , SD IT IS !
@robi1nz
10 жыл бұрын
Interesting stuff on pontiacs stateside. However there are two other sizes that were made down under, but not however under the pontiac name. They have the name Holden, in 253 and 308. Your explanation of them being all the same size block is interesting because there a companies in oz that can turn them into a whopping great 535 ci. Holden when it started life back in the 40s or there abouts. Received all of its tooling from pontiac. Which is why the late model gto and g8 were aussie built
@anthonysantillo1358
Жыл бұрын
Never knew that about the blocks.
@christopherkreider1875
8 жыл бұрын
Well interesting two things should be clarified, 421 and higher engines had Large Journals for Crank, whereas 400 and below had small journals. often this is why the confusion comes up. Big/small. Secondly 265 and 301 Engines were manufactured with Thin wall construction and are not the same block, just lift one stripped weighs less than 150 lbs, where as all regular Pontiac blocks were approximately 168 lbs. the reason for performance issues on the 265/301's had to do with smog and intake manifold issues the Number 7 runner is kinked heavily for the EGR blocking almost any flow. that is all for now. My Baby is a 1972 Trans AM 455 HO.
@69GTOby1
10 жыл бұрын
Thaaaaank you! Nothing bothers me more than ignorant people saying the have a "big block" Pontiac 400 or 455, as like you said, they're all basically the same dimensions and overall size. The only justification for people saying that is that the 265 and 301 production engines were, in a sense, smaller due to the lower deck height... But that's it. And most people claiming they had a big block don't even know about the 265/301 or their respective deck height, lol. More people need to watch this informative video if they want to talk about engines other than Chevy.
@madpauper
6 жыл бұрын
Just a couple of things I think deserve mentioning. After I think 67 the block is the GM B.O.P. medium block as in Buick , Oldsmobile, Pontiac. There's a huge differences internally between pre-B.O.P. and post-B.O.P. mostly in the cooling jacket and oil passage routing. Another cool thing those super duty blocks everyone wants well they are no different than the hdz towing blocks available in the station wagons back then also that same block came in Buick and Oldsmobile as well. Granted the heads aren't hipo on those but that heavy duty block is.
@jeffreymayer8550
Жыл бұрын
I realize this video is 9 years old, shocked in just now seeing it. I still try and explain the Pontiac block to people.. Most of the time to no avail. There is one thing you are slightly off, you can get more out of the 301 turbo than you and others classically believe. It can be built and will hold up. As well a 400? No, but I've seen it be stroked and put down 11s at the track in an Indy Pace Car. I believe the motor was done by Butler.
@gr8gary4895
3 жыл бұрын
I need to point out on one issue, 265 and 301 are not the same as the rest of the Pontiac family they are a short deck design based partly on the 303 , the rest of the family is the same dimensionally from 1959 up. but the big bore engines 421, 428 and 455 have large crank journals 3.25 opposed to 3"
@jamesperry3654
6 жыл бұрын
All pontiac V8 engines that I have seen have all been the same except for bore, stroke, and journals. They also have the engine size cast into the side of the block in big numbers. No guessing what size engine you have. Easy to build. Lots of torque. The wide V shape of these engines make header installation a pain in the assets. If you finally get them on, try not to melt everything under the hood.
@Myvintageiron7512
10 жыл бұрын
Yes that is true about Olds but deck height was never a factor in big and small block chevy has a tall deck and short deck 454 both BB engines Ford has a 289/302 short deck and a 351w taller deck all small blocks
@motorheadhorsepower6395
8 жыл бұрын
There was 180 hp 200 hp & the 220 hp which brought factory chrome valve covers
@scottlambeth
7 жыл бұрын
There is a shop out there making parts for the turbo 301 pontiac now (TTA performance).... all 80-81 blocks were the same, and stronger than previous years (higher nickel content). With many of his add-ons (exhaust upgrades, turbo upgrade, water injection, more boost, etc...) he made near 320HP, and 504 ft lbs. You can't really make this engine run without boost though, or a lot of money and custom machining (that's been done too).
@utooberblooper
6 жыл бұрын
easily $20,000 ++++ to make 500 ft lbs on a 301 if not more and very unreliable,instead get an ls and spend that much,it would make 750 horsepower or more and get 25 mpg for the same money.if im spending big bucks its gonna be on big cubes,aluminum heads,block,forged crank,rods,0.575 lift cam ,6 bolt mains and roller valvetrain.
@gldeagle1
9 жыл бұрын
I noticed you talking about the 350 Pontiac having some performance versions , I was wondering if one if those were the 350 for the ventura , the one I had was a torque monster ,and yes iv had the same conversations with idiots saying there's a big block and small block Pontiac
@polymomen
9 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the info. i love your channel!
@ramseyirizarry3071
7 жыл бұрын
thanks 4 the video I didn't know that they were the same size block.good info
@edvisme
6 жыл бұрын
Besides the obvious ALL Pontiac V8's of that era are the same casting. Differences of each engine were cubic inch (bore, stroke, deck height.) There are casting differences of the V8 Pontiac. Engine mounting locations on the block, I.E. to remove a 400 Pontiac and stick a 428 back into its place will not just fall into the same foot print. Different engine mounts/fabrication will be required.
@madmanmechanic8847
Жыл бұрын
1966 is the last year of the 421 . Pontiac made a special model call the Catalina 2+ 2 you could order it with a 421 tri power with a four speed . I had a chance years ago with I was a kid to buy a 2+2 Catalina 421 tri power with the optional four speed he had the engine and tri power on the bench and the four speed the body was clean I could of got it for $600.00 but as usual flat ass broke I wanted it so bad . I think the production was very low. The 65 / 66 421 with a carter four barrel was rated at 338 hp with 456 ft pounds of torque and the optional 421 Tri Power was rated at 356 HP with 459 ft pounds of torque .
@tommcqueen2840
3 жыл бұрын
I've bled Pontiac Blue for decades. And I've used my share of factory Hi-Po parts. But the aftermarket heads and blocks that are now available from multiple vendors allows for way more power with better reliability.
@nemesisxrox6773
3 жыл бұрын
... u may b a good source for info - did Pontiac stamp vin's on blocks ?
@tommcqueen2840
2 жыл бұрын
@@nemesisxrox6773 Vehicle Identification Number (VIN): The block VIN and the vehicle VIN were the same, but by late 1967 the block VIN was revised. It started out with a 2 (for Pontiac), the last digit of the year and a letter for the assembly plant followed by the last 6 digits of the vehicle VIN. It was located on the front of the block, on the passengers side, at the bottom near the timing cover.
@SabreMetalPanzer
8 жыл бұрын
I get the whole thing about the "big block" and "small block" thing, and yeah they're pretty much the same sizes, but I wonder if they're considered "big" or "small" in an abstract sense due to the crank journals? A little research gave me some information that the 303/326/350/389/400 engines used a 3" main journal, while the 421/428/455 used a 3.25" crank journal. Though it might also be that people generally think that any engine over 400 cubic inches, no matter how it's designed, is a "big block". Even though it's not necessarily true, it's just "big displacement", as evident by the new trend of 400+ci aftermarket small block Chevrolet engines that directly break that conventional rule. I'm a big fan of Pontiac engines and Pontiac in general, and really want to try and build up some sort of big-journal Pontiac into a "sleeper" engine. At least to the guys who have no idea what the heck a Ram Air V top end looks like, especially when the heads, valve covers, and block are painted that blue color. I'm just having a hard time trying to figure out what exactly I want to swing with bottom end-wise. Thinkin' a decent 455 block with a stock bore size (if I can find one) and a smaller 4" stroke crank to make a "poser" .060-over 421-of-sorts (actually about 434ci).
@dutchylt
2 жыл бұрын
Nope. Way too much thought, simple answer, block size, nothing internal makes it big or small in titles.
@DavidR-ub2dp
3 жыл бұрын
I remember the 301 was used on some buick regals of the late 70s there under powered
@MikOU812
4 жыл бұрын
Thank you for your insight. Your right what you said makes a lot of sense I never new or thought of it that way until you explainedi it. Question I have a 301 so I thought was a big block lol, what do you think of high performancing it?
@chrisneilson7221
3 жыл бұрын
Well, it was a big enough block to eventually punch it out to 455 cubes. Try that on your Ford Windsor, SBC, and Chrysler LA motors.
@Myvintageiron7512
3 жыл бұрын
you can actually build a SBC to over 500 CI
@goaheadmakeourdayscooterpe9644
2 жыл бұрын
I guess he's trying to say the blocks are all the "Same Size". And here the whole time I was telling everybody I had a BB 461 in my 67 Firebird. Just kidding 😂
@chrismansker8870
7 жыл бұрын
well you have to admit that the block itself is kind of big lol love my Pontiac. they have one of the longest rods in a production car so rod stroke ration is excellent in bone stock configuration.
@paulfreeman1410
Жыл бұрын
The first car I ever drove with my driver's license was a 72 Bonneville two-door with a 455 my mother got it from my uncle and he ordered it with the highest performance it could have I would hook school and I could fit at least eight kids with me in the car if the door swung shut by accident it would cut your leg off it was so big and heavy but from a dead stop if I punched it it would burn the tires off until I let off the gas it wasn't so good off the line but within 200 ft I blew everything on the road away
@aheroictaxidriver3180
Жыл бұрын
I almost had my leg cut off when someone backed into my car in a parking lot. If I had been a bit quicker to remove my seat belt and open the door and put my foot on the ground... Maybe 20 seconds difference.
@timarnott7515
6 жыл бұрын
I Personally have to THANK you for your "big block, small block" session......as I as a Pontiac builder/afficianto KNOW, its all the same.....and it drives me absolutly CRAZY, when idiots say "big block" Pontiac.....they're just what you said.....8th grade mentality IDIOTS!!!....I HATE IT!!...it ALWAYS spins me up....now, I own a Nunzi prepared bottom end 462, with Kauffman heads at 10.44:1 static.....that produces 600hp/625 lb ft.....pump gas.....KEEP DOIN WHAT UR DOIN, AND DISPELL THE MORONS.......they sadly just dont know.........again THANK YOU for tryin to clear that up.........bet the idiots aren't listenin.....wouldn't be surprised.....I PERSONALLY THANK YOU FOR YOUR KNOWLEDGE, and tryin to help the mentally challenged....nuff said......PONCH POWER RULES!!
@metalbill
4 жыл бұрын
Can I add the 287, 317, 347 and 370 engines also? They were the very early variants in the 50's and also same block size but with different accessory configurations. Oh, and smaller main journals.
@letitrest4662
4 жыл бұрын
I think people may be getting confused by what engine displacement is. Thinking it's the outside dimensions. In fact piston engine displacement is measured by using this formula; Bore squared x crankshaft stroke x the constant (.7854) x the number of cylinders. People stamp larger displacement engines with the term "big block", because they've been hearing that for years. It comes from Chevrolet. The small block(turbofire or mouse motors), and the big block(turbojet or rat motors), and yes they were two different engine blocks. Even among Ford and Chrysler, small block big block don't apply. Big block small block is a Chevrolet thing. Today....... those two terms, don't even apply to Chevrolets. Among v8(Chevy associated engines) I believe they're all some version of the LS engines.
@stevenheise9817
3 жыл бұрын
Thank God! I’ve been trying to tell people this about the Pontiac block since I bought my first ‘68 Firebird. It was the 350 4bbl 4spd with the factory 3:90 posi (limited slip) rear. My buddy totaled a ‘70 Bonneville and I got the 455 4 bbl for $100. Along the way I picked up a tri-power setup from a GTO for $75 and guess what ? I bolted all this together, dropped it into the Firebird and it FLEW. Later rebuilt the engine switched the tranny to a turbo 400 and it would run 7 grand on the tach. I only sold it after twisting that 160 mph speedometer straight down. Ahh the memories I have of wrenching on that car. Thanks again , loved your info
@kevinmanning4880
4 жыл бұрын
This guy is thinking like a Chevy guy and not a Pontiac guy. Outside dimensions of an Engine block don't dictate cubic inches, bore and stroke does. I dare you to do a video where you use a 326-350 block to bore out to fit 455 pistons. It can't be done. Pontiac took a cost cutting approach. Like Jim Wangers said, the outside dimensions are identical. Use the same mold for the blocks, but different main bearing capacity and cylinder bore capacity. They made a small block and big block by using the same mold but different internal dimensions. A real Pontiac guy, knows this. Your misleading people and would be very dangerous advice to a new Pontiac Enthusiast. He would try to build a 326 into a 455, only to find out from the machine shop, his block is ruined and won't get back the needed budgeted money for the build. Stop thinking like a Chevy guy and stop giving misleading advice.
@THEPROSTETHICMECHANIC
7 жыл бұрын
most of what is in the junkyards are the 265,301,350,400 and 455.So what combination of crank,rod,piston,block and heads from these motors is needed to maybe build something similar to that 475HP 303 race motor?
@4-WHEEL-DRIVE
10 жыл бұрын
SWEET , SWEET VIDEO , I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT ARE ALL WRONG WITH THE 455 ENGINE , BECAUSE THEY THINK IT IS A BIG BLOCK THANK YOU SO MUCH SIR !!!!!!!!!!!!
@krhoft
9 жыл бұрын
I know this is an older broadcast yet the numbers do not lie. This is how the GTO was born and was shuttled through not as a 326 but in reality a 389. Same block, same heads while the only difference was the bore and stroke which were still "Pontiac" design. After all the GTO was a sport trim option when it was first introduced. Of course the dealerships knew what was going on and loved it. There was a reason why the 1964 GTO was only available in a two coupe or two door hard top because the Le Mans convertible could not handle the torque of the 389. Engineering the same block and heads was brilliant!
@MarvelousSeven
4 жыл бұрын
421 had only 2 freeze plugs vs 3, but yes, same block otherwise.
@paulacabbo466
7 жыл бұрын
i miss my 67 conv gto with a HO 400 cid 360 hp first car i ever had at 16 the only car that beat it at my school was a 340 dart, but the dart was modified and i was stock only got me by a nose but he got me
@bobjensen7136
5 жыл бұрын
You are absolutely right about Pontiac engines how ever when the factory would run out of Pontiac engines they would substitute Chevrolet engines and transmissions. My parents bought a Catalina that had a small block Chevrolet engine. It was a bugger to get parts from our local independent parts store because they would look it up in their books. This might be the reason why people think that there are 2 different blocks. By the way it was a real pig. Very low performance. Another tip off that it was not a true Pontiac engine.
@theblacksunshineproject3597
6 жыл бұрын
When I bought my trans am the guy told me it had the 455 SD under the hood . I checked the heads and it had the right code . One day I was detailing the engine and noticed the 350 stamped on the side . Come to find out someone they couldn't locate a 455 block so they built it out of a 350 block ... lol
@utooberblooper
6 жыл бұрын
everyone lies,every 350 is a 350/350 horsepower when they are selling it then you find out its 150 horsepower smog engine.if i paid for a 455 sd i wouldn't have left the garage until i saw that stamp and verified the numbers,no fucking way jose.the asshole who i bought my trans am from said it was a 305 H.O,i said are you sure because the vin says otherwise and they only made 25 305 H.O'S in 1986 then discontinued them.everyone selling a car is a lying puss bag.
@theblacksunshineproject3597
6 жыл бұрын
trillriff-axegrinder .. it was built to be a 455 with bore and stroke +.30 over . The machine shop that did the work did a great job . All the internals. We're after market. Has lots of power
@samanthajacob4518
5 жыл бұрын
I have apontiac motor in my 23t bucket built by amos sattler displaces 468 cui built on a 400 block there are no big and small blocks there all the same I grew up working on Pontiacs
@trucking604
6 жыл бұрын
Pontiac blocks are all the same size externally, bore and stroke sizes account for the difference in displacement. Technically they were medium blocks. Same thing goes for Buick and Oldsmobile. Some of the larger displacement Oldsmobile blocks did have a taller deck to accommodate the longer stroke, but still the same engine family as the smaller displacement engines. Ford, Chevy and Chrysler had true small block and big block engine families.
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