Part 1 Wokeness Has Gone Too Far ►kzitem.info/news/bejne/2miGsGutkoeQa44 Rest of the abortion debates ►kzitem.info/news/bejne/uJVjrISCpmOropg
@promethiac2641
Жыл бұрын
I think that people are like ummm.. really stupid.. but I like umm.. still have faith they are like.. umm.. still like.. cognitive to important issues and also.. you know.. give peace a chance.. ya know?
@blazearmoru
Жыл бұрын
10 Mins in, you just have to ask a conservative if superman (aka jesus) should have human rights. Superman, is literally an illegal alien, so fucking illegal that he doesn't even have human DNA.
@cjcoleman3893
Жыл бұрын
Destiny, a fetus having an undeveloped consciousness means nothing. The fact a fetus is human and alive inherently makes killing it meditated premature killing murder. If I have a asshole friend who kills my pet fish, you'd say he murdered your fish. the fishs lack of consciousness means nothing. He still murdered your fish. A child is a mutually owned property by both parents. Intercourse is defined as business and commerce. sexual Intercourse is therefore sexual business and commerce. The fetus is called the product of conception. Literally the product of 2 business partners sexual business and commerce. Since the fetus is a mutually owned product /property regardless if it has a consciousness when a mother decides to get a willful abortion she automatically is engaging in the wrongful destruction of someones property which by definition is a crime. Just like if your friend murders your fish, if your sexual business partner kills your fetus you can therefore claim she murdered your baby. Its the same thing. A sexual union is the legal consummation of marriage. In marriage union the partners are no longer legally considered independent beings. By law your spouse literally is considered a part of yourself. Thats why married couples cant be compelled to testify against their partner in court, beceause your spouse is literally and legally yourself. The bible says the two married people shall become 1flesh and is why a marriage union is treated as such in our secular court system. After a woman has sex which is technically the finalization of a marriage there no longer exists this idea of 'my body my choice' no beceause you have legally and sexually entered a union. A wife's body no longer is her own but is also her husbands and vise versa the wife literally owns the husbands body too. Thats what a union is, a combining of 2 into 1. The Bible also says it as well, says that the man owns the woman and the woman owns the man. there is no independence nor individuality in a legal union. When a woman aborts a fetus yes she destroys her own body but since her body is owned also by her husband it also means she is wrongfully destroying his property as well, which is a crime.
@cjcoleman3893
Жыл бұрын
By arguing a toddlers consciousness is sufficient to call it alive than clearly a fetus kicking in the womb should be sufficient proof to call it conscously alive. Destiny unwittingly was arguing the other guys point. Besides if a single celled organism is fundamentally considered alive, No life anywhere is measured by consciousness. Even if AI becomes coscious and self aware it wont be considered alive. Though id still be wrong to destroy someones robot even though the destruction of it isnt murder , its destruction would still be a willful crime just the same as destroying a fetus except a gestating fetus is objectively alive and so we call its destruction murder
@cjcoleman3893
Жыл бұрын
A fetus is not a potential life its actually alive although parasitic in its nature a born child will die if left on its own and so even the born baby is a parasite doesn't justify killing it . PARASITIC life is still alive
@ytname6602
Жыл бұрын
I'm interested to hear Destiny's opinion on abortion, as you often hear conversations such as these monopolized by men, it's refreshing to get a woman's perspective.
@WaterYaDune
Жыл бұрын
Ok I’ll accept this one
@jasonmacfarlund2703
Жыл бұрын
Guys the joke is that destiny is a girl's name. If destiny was a girl, this wouldn't be funny. AMAZIN
@RizeCondor
Жыл бұрын
Hahaha
@bladddeesa
Жыл бұрын
YOU
@ytname6602
Жыл бұрын
@@johnlonne7062 I don't understand why you would think reproductive rights were meant to be a joke..? Not a good look man.
@spluv1
Жыл бұрын
what i love about this is that destiny isn't here to win, he's here to talk. and the millisecond the talk devolves, he puts the discussion back on track, and when the talk has been talked, he's quick to conclude and thank the participant. there is absolutely zero aggression, and so much courtesy. absolutely wonderful.
@alrulz6402
Жыл бұрын
Shows you the difference between left and the right
@kevinjoker2
Жыл бұрын
@@alrulz6402 The terms Destiny uses to describe himself is "Omniliberal" (a term coined by Destiny to represent his "better" version of neoliberalism) and "a very big social democrat".
@whatNtarnation90
Жыл бұрын
@ToonahFish he's talking about the guests. Right wing people in general are infinitely more likely to have discussions like this. Even destiny admits right wing people are "nicer" than left wing. Destiny is also considered an enemy of the left, so he's much more "right wing" optically. Left wing people just show up public debates to hold signs and scream.
@kevinjoker2
Жыл бұрын
@@whatNtarnation90 If you wholeheartedly believe that political stances on complex topics that require extensive debate dictate one's temper and their ability to have a conversation, then maybe consider that the media that you personally consume is literally tailored to what you desire to see.
@ceasursmoke1391
Жыл бұрын
u mean when he lost the argument, hes quick to end it
@caesarsfirst2132
Жыл бұрын
Coming from a right wing perspective, destiny (which is in fact a girls name) does this 10000 times better than crowder. It’s great to have actual real life conversations where everyone walks away amicably. It’s okay to disagree on controversial topics, and talk them over like adults. The good faith effort gives you results like this, instead of the wild “college kid BTFO’d” or pushing someone to yell at you crowder gets. GG Destiny, out here doing great work
@johnwinchester6934
Жыл бұрын
Crowder isn't going to actually debate college kids he is going because he know the blue haired twitter people will loose their minds on camera. That content is watched and spread 100× more than an reasonable debate and he knows that.
@mckenziecartercameron5762
Жыл бұрын
Except its all men talking about things that don’t, and won’t, ever effect them on any level compared to the woman (relatively speaking). The reverse is not true. If men were forced to carry a child this would not even be up for discussion or debate.
@juiced9432
Жыл бұрын
@@mckenziecartercameron5762 🧢
@bovineavenger734
Жыл бұрын
Good faith? the fact people get aggressive isn't crowder's fault, it's that he's dealing with lefties who think words are violence. Honestly Destiny was extremely hypocritical and full of double thinking in his arguments here.
@aidan7655
Жыл бұрын
@@mckenziecartercameron5762 you are so right, Destiny should stop healthy conversations with pro life men trying to educate them about abortions. I don’t know why we didn’t think of this sooner
@hickspaced2963
Жыл бұрын
It’s actually refreshing to see destiny help them out in formulating their arguments rather than massively dunking on em at every given chance.
@monadouroboros
Жыл бұрын
It's definitely a different approach but don't you think that arguments are meant to be conclusive? Otherwise you'll talking endlessly. Destiny does not have a good point and no one can convince him so it would have been fine to end the conversation quicker
@alexhendrickson5388
Жыл бұрын
@@monadouroboros that is quite literally the opposite of how a debate is supposed to work lol
@monadouroboros
Жыл бұрын
@@alexhendrickson5388 well if you can't argue with sufficient convincing points then the conversation ends what's the matter with that
@alexhendrickson5388
Жыл бұрын
@@monadouroboros because then there's no debate. and a lot of times those "sufficient convincing points" are not points at all. they're just plain dunks or gotchas and there's little to learn from those types of "debates"
@monadouroboros
Жыл бұрын
@@alexhendrickson5388 you might see it that way, when debating you're presenting relevant information to counter the opponent. You're ideas will be challenged and if you don't have the resources you will feel that way.
@V___X
Жыл бұрын
Don't let this facade distract you from the fact that Destiny is actually pro-women's names
@endlessannie8620
Жыл бұрын
@@johnlonne7062 🤓🤓
@AndersLiljeblad
Жыл бұрын
Preach!
@SteveHat
Жыл бұрын
Probably why shes so interested in women's rights.
That second kid was so nervous... kudos on him for going through it anyways.
@annemiekaudiofreak
Жыл бұрын
While he is nervous, I think he is still very well-spoken. I understood what he was talking about. When I am nervous, I stutter and stumble, and become wholely incoherent. ಥ‿ಥ
@annemiekaudiofreak
Жыл бұрын
@@iamhereblossom1588 Not giving a value-judgement on his argument. Nor am I saying I didn't understand his argument. I am not sure what you are getting at with this comment.
@cesper554
Жыл бұрын
and kudos to Destiny for kindly throwing him a quick life raft to get him back on track and reorganize his thoughts in that opening moment
@jonv1776
Жыл бұрын
@@cesper554 that was good on Destiny. Otherwise.... Things might have gone off the rails quick for the young man.
@screeechbud
Жыл бұрын
@@cesper554 he's been kind of duo-ing as a moderator during this little segment of vids from the looks of things. i think it's nice that he's giving a chance to college kids to debate but not making it entirely hostile despite the weight of the subject.
@cullsans
Жыл бұрын
The worst part about the abortion conversation is that we have only 2 sides, pro-life and pro-choice, but it is such a nuanced conversation that I feel like two people could have the exact same beliefs but identify differently as pro-life/pro-choice. At the end of the day no one wants abortions to happen and I think this common ground is often ignored when debating this topic.
@awilson8521
Жыл бұрын
"No one wants abortions to happen" Then, ban it. The fact is; people want the choice to abort and not carry a child to term. Otherwise, they would carry the child to term and give the child up for adoption or keep the child. Abortion is an unnecessary and evil choice.
@cullsans
Жыл бұрын
@@awilson8521 Fair enough, and how do you feel about exceptions for rape or instances where if the pregnancy is carried to term the life of the mother is greatly endangered?
@out_of_orbit1968
Жыл бұрын
you'd be surprised to know lots of people celebrate the abortions, as if its something to be proud of.
@cullsans
Жыл бұрын
@@out_of_orbit1968 Lot's of people as in more than 0.5% of the population?
@SeriousWand0254
Жыл бұрын
Clearly some people want abortions to happen
@sirxellington7836
Жыл бұрын
“Maybe you’re just not a fan of toddlers… are you a pit bull fan?” Best destiny joke ever
@HP-tw6tl
Жыл бұрын
10:26
@alexandermasters7827
Жыл бұрын
I hate that I was trying to make a connection between Mr Worldwide and toddlers for a good 5 minutes.
@cameronkluger3976
Жыл бұрын
@@alexandermasters7827 hahahaha
@AscendedLife1
Жыл бұрын
Student 2 Yash, had a way better take and line of reasoning to counter Destiny than 99% of the people Ive heard him debate and discuss. Great conversation.
@ucouldtell3326
Жыл бұрын
Why do you believe destiny didn’t push back more on some things?
@onlyeveryone2253
Жыл бұрын
@@ucouldtell3326 he wanted to try his reasoning without priming too much probably
@phanomtaxskibididoodoo
Жыл бұрын
No he didn't. He kept asserting that the potential for life is attached to the fetus but contradicted that earlier when he attached the potential for life to action, when he claimed that having sex has the potential for life thus a person concedes agency by having sex.
@Astric24
Жыл бұрын
@@phanomtaxskibididoodoo I imagine if he had more time he would've gone deeper on the subject, but at the end he mentioned a difference between a positive action of getting an abortion to end the potential vs a negative action of avoiding the fetus developing in the first place
@phanomtaxskibididoodoo
Жыл бұрын
@@Astric24 timestamp?
@PitchBlackYeti
Жыл бұрын
Leaving the final word always to the other person is a really great gesture of good faith, possibly it will encourage more people to come and chat in the future
@balooojeffersong4234
Жыл бұрын
Sounds like your just coping with the fact that your boy destiny got completely NUKED FROM ORBIT by the first guy.
@diversitydeliverer7094
Жыл бұрын
@@balooojeffersong4234 Lmao
@balooojeffersong4234
Жыл бұрын
@@diversitydeliverer7094 got something to say tough guy?!!
@diversitydeliverer7094
Жыл бұрын
@@balooojeffersong4234 Yeah your dumb comments are hilarious
@PitchBlackYeti
Жыл бұрын
@@balooojeffersong4234 are you 15? It's a rhetorical question, don't answer...
@mathiasstone
Жыл бұрын
Damb, mad respect to the second guy, Yash. A bit nervous but still well spoken. No disconnects from reality or hyper emotional arguments. I understand everything he said, I respect his arguments and think they're pretty good for his side, even if I disagree. Mad Props
@edmaldonado8207
Жыл бұрын
Word. He seems like someone who you could compromise with.
@vendetadesign
Жыл бұрын
@@edmaldonado8207 For sure. Definitely a person looking to expand their view instead of just trying to play defense.
@gabelincoln3608
Жыл бұрын
Yeah I agree with what he says for the most part
@SafeTea237
Жыл бұрын
I mean, its the same argument every pro-lifer gives: fetuses have the potential for life and its this potential that makes it wrong to get an abortion....except then you'd have to concede that sperm and eggs have the potential for life as well which anyone would agree isn't true and therefore demonstrates this argument is garbage lol.
@TheKmagz
Жыл бұрын
Yash's journey was fantastic to watch. It's always cool to see someone get more comfortable with their environment in real time. Kudos Yash.
@paulmd7747
Жыл бұрын
Too bad his position is totally unintelligible.
@KoRNeRd
Жыл бұрын
@@paulmd7747 quite the opposite. He had the most concrete and grounded in moral and legal theory point.
@paulmd7747
Жыл бұрын
@@KoRNeRd Destiny clearly pointed out the hypocrisy and contradictory nature of his point and he sort of just ignored it. Yash's point is this. . . "abortion shouldn't be allowed if a woman is just being an irresponsible slut." The problem with this position is that you are forced to allow abortion if the woman was raped. . . thus meaning you don't consider the fetus a person deserving rights. Yash's entire "potential" position is totally irrelevant if he agrees that it is acceptable to end that potential when the woman isn't being a slut but not ok to end that potential when she is.
@Dmahmoud17
Жыл бұрын
@@paulmd7747 another way of saying you couldnt follow it
@5ubjugator
Жыл бұрын
@@paulmd7747 lmao jokes on you
@notoriuzfat
Жыл бұрын
I think Yash sounded like a younger version of destiny. Very fast spoken and concise. And got further down the line than a lot of pro life people make it. Better debates from college students than I would have expected.
@edclink5068
Жыл бұрын
I thought you said YAUSH for a second there
@limear
Жыл бұрын
not enough gay f words
@meltedsnowman9637
Жыл бұрын
I think the only time Yash started running into contradictions was at the end of the conversation where he started getting into the potentiality stuff, where destiny correctly pointed out that he was kind of dancing between the two concepts of referring both to potentiality and to the thing itself.
@stefangordik7940
Жыл бұрын
son of the CEO of google
@hannesboos1549
Жыл бұрын
@@edclink5068 the conservative arch enemy of Vaush
@mr1nyc
Жыл бұрын
What you are doing is admirable. It shows that college kids do still care about developing their positions. As someone a generation older than you, I see much of my own maturity and development through your journey to understand yourself, the universe, and seek fulfillment through purposeful action. Probably a lame non-meme comment but whatever. Keep it up!
@notoriousriot250
Жыл бұрын
Tbh, he was criticizing right wingers for doing what he does.
@DJ-zg4ec
Жыл бұрын
@@notoriousriot250 how so?
@IRepko
Жыл бұрын
@@notoriousriot250 no, he criticizes right wingers for never challenging themselves with anybody besides college kids, but always has said college campus should be a place of open debate.
@TRSCARLET
Жыл бұрын
@@IRepko but destiny doesnt only debate college kids
@IRepko
Жыл бұрын
@@TRSCARLET exactly
@kevinmcdonald6560
Жыл бұрын
so much better than crowder: (1) no controlling the mic (so you can cut off your opponent from making complete arguments) (2) no bovine audience to applaud your sarcastic one-liners (so you can further unsettle your inexperienced opponent) (3) no avoidance of pre-event publicizing (so you can avoid experienced debaters)
@austinhale5699
Жыл бұрын
The thing is you want to try to avoid publicizing it or else all you are gonna get is fans. In the Livestream, destiny had a hard time finding people to argue cause the audience was nothing but fans. The more of a surprise the event is, the more your opposition will come.
@kevinmcdonald6560
Жыл бұрын
@@austinhale5699 good point, i often wonder if crowder only lets his fans know when he does his because he is always surrounded by fans that cheer on all his gotchas
@austinhale5699
Жыл бұрын
@@kevinmcdonald6560 not as much as you think. I used watch crowders change my mind videos all the time (though stopped watching him after seeing his live streams are nothing but screw you jokes to the left and his content at one point for 2 months was about how the election was stolen) the video don't usually contain that many cheers or jeers from the crowd. Hell he had people cheer for him and he has had people boo him
@kevinmcdonald6560
Жыл бұрын
@@austinhale5699 yeah i used to watch him too, i do recall some guy called yusef(?) who got the crowd to cheer him on against crowder, was interesting, i recall nick fuentes interviewing him afterwards
@Fxrrxt2x
Жыл бұрын
I wouldn’t want to discount the good discussions Crowder has had - he’s been at this for a while now and of course theres been some bad ones, like with that socialism debate for example where Crowder was getting mad.
@af4396
Жыл бұрын
To me it's pretty simple, you can't debate this argument (as a secularist/humanist) using simplistic morality or zoning in on "when something is alive". That can go to ridiculously complicated places, like not jerking off to commit mass genocide of sperms... The simple thing is, value human life. There're two humans here, the mother and the baby. Which one has more value? Well, I'd say most people would subjectively believe the mother does, because she objectively is more useful (can make more babies) and she has a deep, rich life experience, memories, loved ones, maturation, goals etc. The baby, is a clean slate regardless of "if it's alive" or not. Now, the baby is still a life at that point. It's a simple life, much less developed than even a dog at that point, though. However, it has the potential to be fully developed human, the most advanced life form we know of. That makes it more valuable than a dog. It's not only objectively more advanced, it's the parent's child. So, subjectively and objectively the baby has a lot of value. BUT, most would still argue less value than the mother of the child... so.... If the mom is in danger... If the mom is emotionally scarred in the way she got the baby... if the mom has no support to properly raise this baby... the mom gets to decide. A healthy, happy mom in a good relationship will most likely never decide to get an abortion. A mom with lots of support will most likely not decide to get an abortion. But a mom that has been raped, a mom who's life is in danger, a mom who has been thrown away by her partner and family... let's just say you need to save yourself before you can take care of others. In a healthy society, abortions would not happen no matter how many clinics existed. I use the same argument for guns. In a healthy society, school shootings wouldn't happen no matter how many guns get sold. Abortion is NOT the problem. And the argument (at least mine) has nothing to do with when life starts. Life is already there. It's in the dad, the mom, the sperm. Consciousness is a cloud of abstraction. But what's real is the value humans give to different people, at different times.
@nickzakrath7080
Жыл бұрын
Now that's a really good argument ya got there man.
@pierre2898
Жыл бұрын
Yosh actually put the most compelling argument forth out of everybody although he was so nervous.
@phantasticmrphasma9874
Жыл бұрын
Reverse-empathy is real.. so many people’s faux-empathy (like: i’d keep all braindead individuals sustained by machinery, no matter the cost/resource required, on the basis that they COULD possibly wake up) is actually just the fear of a world in which THEY themselves could be wronged/neglected/eradicated. The whole mentality is not ‘killing a being that has potential is wrong’, it is ‘killing me if i have potential’ or ‘removing my chance of achievement’ is wrong. The big argument is whether or not a foetus has any sentient feeling. I believe all living creatures have a similar level of life-awareness and personal value for existence. I DO NOT believe that any creature is objectively less valuable than a human. This is where the debate loses me because it is soaked in human self-preservation and essentially, narcissism. Now, if i have a being inside of me, that i did not want, although it was admittedly my fault/mistake, silly constructs and principals of ‘A means B and ‘If C is C then D must mean E’, will not be of more value to me than being free to not accept a life-changing and health/body changing process that involves a being existing inside me that is parasitic by nature. I cut through all the BS, life is not precious, it is abundant and only worth what other beings deem it to be but objectively it is not worth anything in the scheme of things so if i have a choice of limiting my life (by accepting a circumstance that i did not desire) or not, then i would be comfortable in ending a very basic version of ‘a life’ to preserve my life/health/wellbeing/freedoms.
@jimmynegatron4619
Жыл бұрын
@@phantasticmrphasma9874 So you have characterized the larger pro-life take of not turning life support off for people as narcissism, but don't recognise the irony of then saying you would snip the umbilical cord to prevent something that was the result of your own actions.
@fourtyseven47572
Жыл бұрын
I feel the best counter to Destiny would be asking him if necrophilia is motally neutral. If he only values experience then he should think so
@BabudroSun
Жыл бұрын
@@phantasticmrphasma9874 Technically speaking, sure. Children are parasites. But you auto-lose all credibility when you literally want to say that foetuses are parasites. And no, "parasitic in nature" does not fix anything. I understand what you're trying to say, but you _need_ to use different language to describe it. Talking about kids as parasites is just absurdly cringe.
@meltedsnowman9637
Жыл бұрын
@@fourtyseven47572 The counter to that was that you value the conscious experience of the friends and family of the person involved, and that you value the conscious experience of people who would feel better with the assurance that they wouldn’t have their corpse defiled once they died.
@willjchill4274
Жыл бұрын
Yash's arguments were such a pleasent surprise. I was always very mathematical in my approach to moral statements (i.e. invoking rational agency arguments) in order to walk through heated discussions like this, but the last couple of years of internet debate bros made me lost in the spectacle. Major shoutout to Yash for rejuvenating my interest and I sincerely hope Destiny takes some notes from that exchange for future debates.
@Re-Todd_Howard
Жыл бұрын
Which person was Yash? The first dude?
@Re-Todd_Howard
Жыл бұрын
Oh, nevermind. He’s the second dude, I hadn’t watched that far yet. Yeah he seems pretty smart.
@123sleepygamer
Жыл бұрын
I'd literally bet money that Yash has an I.T. or STEM major, he seems to have that "engineer mind" where you logically go from one section of the problem to another. "Thinking like a computer" is what it was called by my programming professor, because to be a good programmer you literally have to get into the mindstate of a dumb ass machine [It sounds really stupid but it's a thing trust me, ask programmers or even network security folks like me.] Some people use that way to analyze lots of things in life and while it can be good lots of times, a dash of creativity is always welcome.
@deebo429__
Жыл бұрын
He also debated very well. Didn't try to interrupt or claim any gotchas or use and debate bro tactics. Just a good philosophical debate.
@adrianime5838
Жыл бұрын
He was fine, but his consequential argument can be pushed back on really hard. Destiny chose not to for whatever reason, but saying "agreeing to have sex is agreeing to potentially become pregnant" is not a winning stance. Which seemed to be the crux of his position.
@RubberTag
Жыл бұрын
What I like about Destiny is that He seems to be debating in good faith. I am a Christian and a pro lifer and I have not seen much of Him but I really liked the first debate. Not dumbing down and trying to help and debate in good faith. God bless!
@johnl6192
9 ай бұрын
Get well soon
@RubberTag
9 ай бұрын
@@johnl6192 Jesus Christ died for our sins!
@FunTylerVids
6 ай бұрын
if you’re interested in an apposing position check out abolitionists rising on youtube, great channel that gives some interesting arguments against abortion and from a christian perspective 🤝
@picodrop
Жыл бұрын
I appreciate the amount of decorum Destiny exhibits talking to random college students. It's very nice
@Sinbios
Жыл бұрын
Yash is based, he addressed most of Destiny's probing with a pretty consistent principle. Probably the best pro-life proponent Destiny has debated on the abortion topic.
@cyrusp100
Жыл бұрын
Most pro-life people would not consider him pro-life since he conceded he would allow abortions for rape victims and minors. By that standard even Destiny is pro-life - he would criminalise abortions >20weeks.
@JoeMama-ik7qf
8 ай бұрын
jesus seems like pro life and pro choice are just arbitrary terms haha@@cyrusp100
@TeethSkylark
Жыл бұрын
I love these "Change My Mind" vids! Thank you for keeping this format alive. I think it's a really neat way to get discussions going!
@shepardprime13
Жыл бұрын
Even thou I dont agree with Yash's perspective I can't deny that it is such a great way of seeing things. He was so nervous talking about this whole thing. Thumbs up for Yash!
@hastehaste9582
Жыл бұрын
I’m pro-mind yo business. I’d like to ask these pro-life people.. if your wife or daughter was in a extremely high risk labor and the obgyn doctor came out of the room and said.. you have one choice.. either the child survives or your wife dies. What would be their choice? If they’re pro-life.. how do they let either the mom or child die?
@barbarioushardwell5616
Жыл бұрын
Doctrine of double effect?
@rohanking12able
26 күн бұрын
Thats im just gonna tell ya disingenuous. Why tf do you think a pro choice person wouldnt have trouble choosing between there child and their partner. 😂😂😂😂😂😂 why do you think id or anyone would go well if its 50 50 im choosing for the woman here. Because she has zero agency in a 50 50. Now if youre saying its going to kill the mother to have the baby. The question becomes what does she want. Police, doctors, security, jail workers, SOLDIERS choose others lives over their own allot. In terms of i can catch a deadly disease, i could be shot, i could be a pow and tourtured for life. If these people can choose that for people they probably dont even know. Why is it that we shouldnt ask the mother in this situation "do you want to live or die for them to live. Theres going to be a sacrifice made and youre the one that has any understanding of your position in this"
@mazdaroadster-mx5
Жыл бұрын
"maybe you just hate toddlers, are you a pitbull fan?" deceased
@MediumDSpeaks
Жыл бұрын
The dog or the rapper
@captainradio5894
Жыл бұрын
That was teenager level of dumb
@arnold6893
Жыл бұрын
@@MediumDSpeaks the rapping dog
@gamingwhilebroken2355
Жыл бұрын
@@MediumDSpeaks The group of breeds colloquially referred to as pit bulls
@robertf3606
Жыл бұрын
Such a good joke deserved at least a chortle, not the dead silence it got
@sikamankouka3971
Жыл бұрын
Yash has a large brain, he'll be going places
@ryans.1900
Жыл бұрын
Really enjoyed this... You're not talking down to people or disrespecting their opinion, but simply engaging in an amicable discourse in hopes of reaching a rational point of view
@TheCrazedGuitarist
Жыл бұрын
It must’ve been difficult because anti-choice people are idiots
@seaurchin4451
Жыл бұрын
My dad was in a coma and we had to pull the plug. They said to him, it felt like he was drowning. Every gasp of breath was painful. He was kept alive by machines but was basically being tortured. We pulled the plug to release him from the pain and suffering we were causing just to keep him alive. The first kid just doesn’t get it.
@ravichandrakumarchouturi1900
Жыл бұрын
You mu rdered your own father.
@seaurchin4451
Жыл бұрын
@@ravichandrakumarchouturi1900 And I’ll do it again! Bop bop!
@buusteed99
Жыл бұрын
So you think it's equal to stop a life of a person that's being tortured by being alive and stop a life that is healthy and normally developing and everything is fine, lol
@seaurchin4451
Жыл бұрын
@@buusteed99 yes
@buusteed99
Жыл бұрын
@@seaurchin4451 Iq -10000000
@shujolive
Жыл бұрын
I’m finding the first student’s attempt to dismantle what Destiny is saying really interesting. In what universe can the first 2-5 years of a person’s life simultaneously is the most important to their lifelong wellbeing, and overall trajectory for their life, but also be “less important” than the rest of their life’s conscious experience? He didn’t really think this one through too much, and I’m surprised that Destiny didn’t bring up the fact that these formative years stick with you all your life whether you remember them or not.
@Markipilar792
Жыл бұрын
Thanks ❤for watching and commenting, use the above number to acknowledge a price🎖🏆🎗 !!!!!
@CrimzFN
Жыл бұрын
I'd say your time in the womb is pretty formative as well haha
@noggogo6932
Жыл бұрын
You didn't get it. He was arguing by contradiction. It is dubious toddlers have the same full consciousness as an adult, but concluding they are worth less is absurd. (BUT: Brave New World/WEF types do see newborns as candidates for abortion, as evidenced by new laws being proposed, but then again they would extend this to all non-elite people--just beasts of burden.)
@Khanfuzed1
Жыл бұрын
The experience and net consciousness of a toddler is waaaaaay closer to the 30 year old than to that of a sub 24 week fetus.
@blacktigerpaw1
Жыл бұрын
A toddler is still aware they exist, while a fetus at that stage does not. Most pro lifers struggle with that.
@loadingerror9975
Жыл бұрын
Yeah but a baby that was just born would have a closer conscious to a fetus than a 30 year old man. Is it ok to kill a baby right after it's born?
@blacktigerpaw1
Жыл бұрын
@@loadingerror9975 Are you arguing that's what happens?
@meyer2534
Жыл бұрын
To student 1: I would even go as far as saying the experiences a toddler makes are some of the most important ones in a human life. We learn the basic things at that point like balancing and understanding other humans.
@razzlejazzles
Жыл бұрын
Yea honestly the first few years of life are the most formative! Let's say you have a person who was severely abused as a baby. They might not remember that when they are grown, but it would have a significant impact. So many neural pathways are being solidified in those years. Anyhow there is an inherent value in consciousness. If I had the choice to save a newborn baby or 1 thousand embryos in a lab, I am going to save the baby.
@ikey6779
Жыл бұрын
Student 1 was trying to say is that your memories define make who you are. If you lost all ur memories u wouldnt be the same person that you once were.
@spenser9908
Жыл бұрын
How can you not say the same of a fetus' experiences?
@iemgote7249
Жыл бұрын
I don’t think you’re right here. If the importance of consciousness is based on how fundamental the cognitive properties being formed are, it would suggest that the foetus’ is greater since the groundwork for what you are referring to is laid at that stage. This would mean the foetus’ consciousness would be superior to everything after it, degrading as age progresses.
@theshambler6814
Жыл бұрын
The second guy had some really great points, but was just hampered by his confidence and ability to articulate those points. I’d like to see what he is like in a few years and has some more life experience under him.
@Ludwig1625
Жыл бұрын
acting as if 90% of people on campus wouldn't be the same if under the same circumstances. And of those people how many would have the courage to use their own reasoning
@douglasschrift4453
Жыл бұрын
@@Ludwig1625 not a single thing in their comment implied that others on campus wouldn’t be nervous too. All they said was that they’d like to hear their arguments in a few years. That’s it. Nothing more. Nothing less
@HNHDebates
Жыл бұрын
@@Ludwig1625the fact that your name is meant to reference Beethoven and you're being smug and trying to either purposefully misinterpret the comment or be dumb is rich
@driyagon
Жыл бұрын
his arguments were also so much more thought out. he was considering many nuances of the idea before presenting his point
@zzzMrgamerzzz
Жыл бұрын
I love how destiny slips a joke in every once in a while to make the person feel comfortable
@KGBos
Жыл бұрын
It certainly made me feel comfortable and I’m hidden behind a screen.
@tyhaaland165
Жыл бұрын
i consider myself in the center but lean right, absolutely love watching destiny and these change my minds. Destiny is sharp and articulate. I don't always agree with him but its refreshing to hear someone who is as well spoken as him
@edwardlynch6550
Жыл бұрын
Well spoken doesnt mean start. The man has 0 knowledge about what he is talking about. He said cancer is normal. And that toddlers have complex understanding. They cant even shit in a toilet. But they recognize they are alive? Lol
@enriqueperezarce5485
Жыл бұрын
@@edwardlynch6550 a complex understanding in the way their able to take in the environment and interact with it and able to learn right and wrong. Also yes cancer is normal, you can get cancer out of nowhere simply because your cells like to “protest” but your government secret police (immune system) stomps them and commit genocide against the “protesters”. I just used geopolitics to describe a immune response lmao.
@angelbrother1238
Жыл бұрын
I consider myself in the center and lean center lol The right and left have become far to extreme for my taste but when it comes to abortion I’m pro life .
@shampineXV
Жыл бұрын
Said well
@Niro314
Жыл бұрын
very important to listen to people we don't always agree with. I try that with ben sharpiro, he just gets way to extreme too often
@outdablusht565
Жыл бұрын
I don't agree with abortion but I don't agree with stupidity either. If a woman or child is raped they should NEVER be sentenced to now expand the bloodline of the rapist
@cankne2602
Жыл бұрын
It is so refreshing to hear a respectful, mutual conversation about a hot political topic. The conversation flows so much better when both parties are respectful. This is done way better than Crowder! Love the new content!
@connorcampbell5274
Жыл бұрын
It's better content because conservatives actually talk about what they believe. The last change my mind video Destiny (a girl's name) did, wasn't exactly bad content; but dude, it's just night and day. The average college progressive/"liberal" is brain rotted. It's clear these students have engaged with their own positions.
@rttp-righttothepoint6656
Жыл бұрын
but, its not crowders fault directly. people hate him bc he is on the right. if his name was joe blow with no show and a vocal republican, it would be just as nice as this. this is also polite bc destiny is largely seen as ON THE LEFT> there fore he does not cause TDS or auto hate syndrome. if you watch crowders CMM, he is beyond respectful and nice and gives benefit of the doubt to the person who sits down.
@brandonden795
Жыл бұрын
@@rttp-righttothepoint6656 Crowder uses tactics to rile the other person up if he can (if you watched his CMM you know this is true), he'll use his binder as a bludgeon in debates against people but never actually reference it and does surprise visits so no one can actually challange him. He has zero intention of changing his mind because his mind is his brand and that's his living. Contrasted, Destiny schedules the event, is way more respectful and I fully expect that the thumbnail for any CMM could say, "This student totally changes my mind on this", in big bold red letters as has been the case before
@cankne2602
Жыл бұрын
I watched crowder for years previously because he had the only conversational platform. He would instigate the other party which would obviously make the other person uncomfortable and that is when someone is less likely to say or argue the points they may actually feel. When the conversation flows in a comfortable manner, the other person tends to feel comfortable enough to argue their side properly. That is where Crowder fails. I stopped watching because I was looking for a mutual, respectful conversation. I wanted to hear both sides evenly.
@ennuiii
Жыл бұрын
@@connorcampbell5274 oof just say you're hyperpolarized and move on brother, no need to waste your time looking for other seals to clap with you. like xo you really think talking like this, does anything positive for anything other than ostracizing the other side? just got to get that dunk huh? but Republicans for sure are just the intellectual paragon of politics I guess
@pimpmasterfuture9400
Жыл бұрын
The Yosh discussion was really good, you should debate him again with more time. He really made me think.
@jordanwhite8718
7 ай бұрын
Honestly, that first debater really flips hard. He went from saying all life is precious, to toddlers, ain’t worth shit.
@jameslee-kh5xt
7 ай бұрын
i think ur getting wrong idea. 1st guy said any kind of potential life is important even fetus, but destiny said he define life with consciousness thus fetus arnt really life. so 1st guy said in his view toddler have not fully develope consciousness so does toddler worth less then fully develpoed consciousness is what he wants to say. i think.
@jordanwhite8718
7 ай бұрын
@@jameslee-kh5xt That’s the problem though. He doesn’t understand Destiny‘s arguments. He doesn’t seem to understand that just because the toddlers conscious thoughts are not done developing. That doesn’t mean that they are not there. A toddler can laugh. Cry learn a new language faster than most adults. There are so many complex processes going on in a toddlers brain in order to help it grow. The idea that toddlers don’t have a consciousness is just an insane statement to make if you are pro life, or even if you’re pro-choice. It shows that he either doesn’t understand what Destiny is talking about or is just a psycho.
@jameslee-kh5xt
7 ай бұрын
@@jordanwhite8718 no they just don't agree on each others points. they just view what fetus are like every other pro-choice pro-life people. To me Destiny point of view does not make sense because i see life as conception/fertilization. Destiny said fetus is like construction materials in construction site and finished building is human, but for me materials are sperm n egg, n as fertilization happens the building is being built automatically n 9 month it is finished.
@mrmonkebig30
Жыл бұрын
Really enjoyed the conversation between Destiny and Yash. I admire the way they both argued in a productive way.
@sticks1990
Жыл бұрын
That last guy couldn’t stop. “ when I say DNA I mean biologically.“ then five minutes later “ when I say DNA I mean philosophically“
@eightbitmilitia
Жыл бұрын
I’m pretty pro life, but I do appreciate the conversation coming from Destiny. It’s rare to have an articulate conversation coming from the left without personal attacks and it’s nice to see. Thank you Destiny for not attacking my beliefs or character for holding an opinion.
@SRM13
Жыл бұрын
Shit opinion but it is yours
@j3551kuh
Жыл бұрын
It’s rare for either side to have a debate without dumbing it down with personal attacks.
@anthonyl9126
Жыл бұрын
This behavior was uniquely a liberal behavior before the wokies took over.
@NekoEspada
Жыл бұрын
I used to be extremely pro choice, now I'm a little on the fence. I've spoken to a few women who've had abortions and they told me that they feel quite depressed after the procedure, they felt like they lost something important. While I still somewhat agree with pro choice, I think the abortion movement has gone too far, where the first option is abortion and not putting safe sex first. I think abortion should be a last option. Nowadays you have a lot of promiscuous men and women who don't care about safe sex, they're obsessed with sex, they just do it raw and think who cares just get an abortion after.
@aliyaanwald6149
Жыл бұрын
thats where youre wrong. It is majority of the time everyone's last option. Most people are not promiscuous, the average woman has only had three sex partners
@DobesVandermeer
Жыл бұрын
I think it's fine to say you are against abortion but also not make it illegal. I think alcohol consumption is a net negative but it doesn't need to be illegal
@LipSyncLover
Жыл бұрын
A lot of pro choice people like myself agree with you that safe sex is paramount and abortion should be a last resort. It might only appear to be a primary option being pushed....because it's the thing being taken away. And doing so is literally killing vulnerable women.
@LipSyncLover
Жыл бұрын
@Aliya Anwald I thought average was actually 7 I guess it depends on your source. But you're right I think most people are only single digits in people they slept with. I'm married and I've been with 5.
@rebeca3284
Жыл бұрын
@@aliyaanwald6149" only 3 sex partners " and they are not promiscuous? Ahhh, the foundation eroding. No wonder abortion is up for discussion.
@CognitiveLoad_QMarkKickKO
Жыл бұрын
I can’t say I’m a huge fan of destiny but after watching his debates I have so much respect for the manner in which he debates in good faith, and also the fact that he seems to not cherry pick silly college freshmen with little knowledge to make himself look good, I.e. Steven crowder
@dazuko8839
Жыл бұрын
Indeed, he's does it better. Crowder is a joke
@noblepursuit591
11 ай бұрын
Why not just say that you don't like Crowder? They're doing the same exact thing here. Also, Crowder holds these in all sorts of locations, not just colleges. The videos are out there, so there's no excuse to not know this unless you just don't care or you're just lazy.
@blackbeanburger3357
Жыл бұрын
the discussion with the 2nd guy was really, really good i would even go so far as to say i would really like to see a follow up debate with that guy.
@streetninja510
Жыл бұрын
yash was spitting some fire
@westerngroovetv
Жыл бұрын
facts. i literally came to comments to see what ppl were saying after that and everyone is quiet. I've never seen destiny lose a debate like that. i was like fuck he got smoked.
@thepratter
Жыл бұрын
@@westerngroovetv I don't think Destiny got smoked. Yosh fared much better than the rest of the students imo, but Destiny kind of caught him at the end when he brought up the different "what if" scenarios. What I believe Yosh did extremely well was stay fairly consistent with his viewpoints, and despite being nervous articulated them very well.
@hydrocraftpower
Жыл бұрын
I think Yash did great, but I think near the end, destiny was displaying that his argument was pretty arbitrary - just like destiny's. Why wouldn't the act of condoms or birth control be immoral itself?
@jasonh4604
Жыл бұрын
Except it's not arbitrary. Using Destiny's own metaphor, having building materials and then destroying them is not the same as destroying a building. But as soon as you begin putting the pieces together (egg + sperm) then the potential of that building comes into play because they are no longer separate parts.
@thelyonking5812
Жыл бұрын
Actual best Destiny content, love these real world conversations. This is way better than those Crowder vids where he just plays gotcha. These conversations feel way more good faith and real, plus the college kids seem way smarter than Crowder vids (wow when you put in the best and smartest people you talk with rather than the dumbest people you end up with good discourse rather than hammering down talking points, who could have guessed lol). I'm pro choice, but I thought the 2nd guy Destiny talked with made some decent arguments and stood his ground even though he was nervous, although he wasn't able to sway me over to his side.
@Charge11
Жыл бұрын
This is the same exact thing as the crowder vids. Destiny just confirms your biases and Crowder doesn’t
@fluivanny
Жыл бұрын
@@sdjslkdjlsskldjslkdjsl8262 same bro i fuck with crowder but even i have to admit hes not the most honest debater.
@thelyonking5812
Жыл бұрын
@@Charge11 Is it? The format is the same but Destiny feels like he is engaging in much better faith. No book of stats to pull gotchas out of and no interrupting of the students. He had more conversations that are in this video and he did them all live so we know all of them, he isn't just selectively choosing the ones that make him look best like Crowder does.
@DurpenHeimer
Жыл бұрын
@@Charge11 Literally nothing like Crowder's and if you can't distinguish that then you must be extremely new to the debate community
@thelyonking5812
Жыл бұрын
@@sdjslkdjlsskldjslkdjsl8262 I've noticed that, he suddenly gets upset at the use of some words but at the same time he claims to be all about free speech and anyone who gets upset over words is a snowflake
@dexanwtripontidis3652
Жыл бұрын
Drama is fun but I think content like this should be encouraged, amazin job
@TitoMako
Жыл бұрын
The first student has a mindset that terrifies me: I do not want to exist indefinitely as a vegetable because of his views on the human experience.
@10XSeiga
Жыл бұрын
What an extreme fringe case.
@gabelincoln3608
Жыл бұрын
He’s a little extreme but he’s mostly right besides the rape part. The government will make you live as a veggie
@tom_see
Жыл бұрын
it feels like he doesn't have the awareness that suffering is a thing... ahh to be young again
@rebeca3284
Жыл бұрын
😂 He was responding to a hypothetical question that Destiny presented, shhhh...calm down.
@juicifer2024
11 ай бұрын
bro yash is on top of his shit i thought he was gonna fold multiple times but nope he was able to articulate his position very well and stay morally and logically consistent
@tjbes
7 ай бұрын
I do agree that he stayed morally and logically consistent, but his argument still fell apart upon scrutiny. But he is consistent which I very much appreciate.
@kongeethegod
Жыл бұрын
"I think you might just hate toddlers" The look down of contemplation probably thinking "kids do think and talk a lot. Do I just hate toddlers?"
@edclink5068
Жыл бұрын
Toddlers at a few month old aren't conscious, and they're defenseless time to test out my new karate
@christianlima987
Жыл бұрын
I think the dude saw destiny was destroyed so bad he gave destiny time to think about the ad hom.
@kongeethegod
Жыл бұрын
@@christianlima987 destiny got destroyed explain
@VARMOT123
Жыл бұрын
Make debates with Yash a regular thing on your stream on various topics. He is good at debates and was able to articulate them well
@antebagaric1970
Жыл бұрын
Yeah, with some experience he might lose his excessive nervousness. Could be good then.
@paulmd7747
Жыл бұрын
I disagree. Yash's position made no sense. It was all post hoc justifications for his personal opposition to people avoiding consequences for sexual activity. Pretty obvious that he actually does support abortion, but is personally against people being able to have sex for the purpose of pleasure and not pregnancy.
@thedude8526
Жыл бұрын
@@paulmd7747 I'm curious where you got that from. Sounds like you're only assuming. There is no such thing as having sex only for pleasure. There is always a risk for pregnancy, unless the man/woman is sterile or have had their tubes tied or a vasectomy, and whether you ignore that or not does not change the reality that one of the results of sex is conception followed by pregnancy. People that use the sex for pleasure argument are merely dodging their own accountability for the pregnancy.
@jgbgw591
Жыл бұрын
I appreciated the nervousness. It's very human and he articulated himself so well in spite of it. Destiny comes across arrogant even though I appreciate his intent with these segments.
@Red88Rex
Жыл бұрын
Student 2 was great, with more practice and confidence he would be able to debate destiny and the like with ease. He should make a channel!
@teratoma.
Жыл бұрын
yeah, dude seems very interesting
@robdigital5920
Жыл бұрын
Agree!
@sebastianjanssen6693
Жыл бұрын
These conversations are more "expand my mind" than "change my mind".
@IRepko
Жыл бұрын
I think the change my mind was to give people that came an idea of the sort of thing he was doing, not that it’s an exact replica
@kaded_
Жыл бұрын
well changing your mind involves admitting you were wrong initially so you don't see many people do that
@dragonbreath8769
Жыл бұрын
Brother, you are on to something here. Your practicing what everyone preaches. Almost anyone doing what you're doing will take shitty shots at opponents, talk down to them, in general, some of them that are good can make it subtle but it's just not in good faith and I feel like the more these videos you do the more it's going to shine a light on those behaviors you see like people are so used to seeing that they just think that's just the way you need to debate that's the way you have to act I mean people are are that kind of ignorant and I think it's important that officially younger folks have the opportunity to see what it looks like when somebody truly in good faith is there to have a discussion and and well trying to persuade the person treating them with respect I mean it's amazing the way you're treating these kids I mean I flew off the handle watching the video I was so pissed off at a couple of them keep doing what you're doing bro this is this is some powerful s***
@cosmicrae789
Жыл бұрын
saying something is right because it's "natural" or "comes naturally" is a logical fallacy. anytime i hear someone bring up that logically fallacy in arguments about where life begins and abortion debates i wanna so badly explain why it's not a proper explaination or justification for a pro-life or even a pro-choice argument. as always these videos are so interesting and important, thank u
@alexanderTheVegan
Жыл бұрын
Nobody said "it's right because it's natural". That phrase doesn't even mean anything. What is "it" even referring to??
@awilson8521
Жыл бұрын
What logical fallacy are you referring to? There is such thing as an antecedents and consequences in logic.
@asb4412
Жыл бұрын
@@awilson8521 Naturalistic fallacy.
@samuraidog1510
Жыл бұрын
I dont understand, life literally does begin at conception and willfully killing your offspring out of convenience (as in the vast majority of cases) in abortion is objectively wrong. “bu-bu-but the woman cant care for the baby!” As I said, a convenience issue that couldve been solved in the bedroom where the female willfully engaged in an action that not only could, but is literally designed to get her pregnant (and not to mention penetrative sex is not the only way for both individuals to get their orgasms there are safer alternatives or just pull out) and as such when you take that risk and inevitably get pregnant that is on you. And not just you, but the newly formed life that is inside of you which is an entirely separate human lifeform biologically which you *do not* have the right to straight up murder it out of your own personal sense of convenience because it violates your hedonistic and degenerative life style of having trains ran on your holes. Simple as that. Morality is objective, Murder of the innocent is wrong.
@nazonrev5087
Жыл бұрын
@@samuraidog1510 "because it violates your hedonistic and degenerative life style of having trains ran on your hole" Casually generalizing people that get abortions as whores, nice. ""out of your own personal sense of convenience" You're seriously downplaying the potential harm that a potentially single, financially incapable mother could have on a child. Sure, there are people that go above and beyond to support their family in dire situations, but not everyone is equipped that way. Them going through 20+ years of financial and mental hardship is not a correct punishment for getting pregnant even though you used protection and all the necessary precautions to not get pregnant. "entirely separate human lifeform": What makes a clump cells defined as this? Until the last-ish few weeks of pregnancy, there is no conscious experience, there is no active brain, there is no memory, etc. There's not much genetically that defines a clump of human cells as having specific human attributes, therefore there is no intrinsic human value. "life literally does begin at conception" Sure, biological functions like cell replication, the very basic formation of bones and organs, etc., but, as stated in the above point, personhood doesn't. "As I said, a convenience issue that couldve been solved in the bedroom" They can't be solved though, they can be marginally prevented. Condoms and pills only work so well. So you think people should just stop having causal sex because of the risk of getting pregnant? Delusional. But you might say 'Oh, but the fetus still has the POTENTIAL to become a human' Sure, there are lots of things that have the potential to become a lot of valuable things. But why does the prevention of something that has valuable potential designate that thing at that very moment, in this case a clump of human cells or a fetus during the early stages of pregnancy, to have the same value as the thing that it has the potential to be? A 9 year old girl as the potential to be a hot 22 year old that I could have sex with, but that doesn't mean I am allowed to treat her the same way as that potential 22 year old.
@altart8102
Жыл бұрын
The last guy lost me. But that Yash kid was tight. He was ultra nervous, knees weak arms heavy eminem type beat, but when he got more into the convo, man's was actually really solid. Good points, clear engagement, solid counter arguments... Shake off that mom's spaghetti fam, you're good.
@onlyeveryone2253
Жыл бұрын
I don't think the counter arguments were solid, but he was a solid arguer and person
@ryohio4706
Жыл бұрын
Lmao, tha Eminem description of him 😄
@moleedaboi
Жыл бұрын
I feel like he needed that confidence boost.
@CrimsonWolf69
Жыл бұрын
Unfortunately, he only had one shot, one opportunity.
@deleteyourlife191
Жыл бұрын
I'm in a bit of a dilemma. I'm pro-choice but I also want to control women's bodies. What should I do?
@fatnose0
Жыл бұрын
Focus your attention on their finances and voting rights
@fatnose0
Жыл бұрын
@James Madison key word "would've been"
@fatnose0
Жыл бұрын
@James Madison key word "would of been"
@mathatter9158
Жыл бұрын
That Yash guy seems really bright and brought up some very valid points.
@david_a_sanchez
Жыл бұрын
Whatever you believe, I appreciate Destiny and have a new found respect for him. That's coming from a conservative. He is a great example of having a conversation. Doesn't matter if I agree or disagree with him, I just enjoy hearing his views. It's important to share like this.
@AriaputriM
Жыл бұрын
I never understand why nobody mentions or makes an argument of the fact that fetus can literally not survive without being sustained by the womans body, I'd like to hear that being discussed.
@jay-ki6ie
Жыл бұрын
the first student is well spoken. at some point he was trying to follow argument to a conclusion that destiny wasn't making i think. he was saying that since destinys claim is that life begins when you develop consciousness, that means a toddler who has a comparatively less developed brain is a lesser life because its not as conscious (?) , which is not what destinys argument concludes to. this was not resolved, destiny instead took the path of arguing that toddlers do have a complex conscious experience which the student fumbled by not conceding that because to my understanding the first couple years of your life are VERY important for shaping who you will become because so many complex things are happening that are fundamental for children. I think the point destiny was trying to make in the first place was a human life begins when a fetus first develops that specific human consciousness and that the level of cognitive ability doesn't matter, as long as it has that uniquely human experience it is a human life
@lovelycurls4628
Жыл бұрын
This
@miguelzavaleta1911
Жыл бұрын
His argument did have a HUGE blunder by relying on the word "natural." That word was doing some heavy lifting for him. Destiny was nice to let him get away with it, but I get it -- it's supposed to be an abortion debate, not a a philosophy one.
@christianlima987
Жыл бұрын
The reason the first few years are important is because they unconsciously take everything in. Which was his point. Like destinys example a single cell and light. But if we did use your logic the 9 months is very important in shaping an individual for the whole of life. His point was since consciousness is developing even after birth how do you justify pre birth being the cut off.
@mo.ka.9661
Жыл бұрын
What is it experiencing in the womb when it develops a brain?
@gcod3d161
Жыл бұрын
@@mo.ka.9661 ‘having a unique relationship with its parents’ according to the last guy
@TheTreekin
7 ай бұрын
Don't let that first guy anywhere near me or my children lol
@marcelbenner993
Жыл бұрын
In regards to the coma argument: You most definitely know that the embryo or fetus will develop a conscious experience. Thus I think the coma argument directly counters this conscience POV, if you say that doctors will tell you that it is "worth" keeping a patient alive because they will eventually wake up. You would be in favor of keeping a 2 week old embryo alive accdoring to that logic,as it will most definitely aquire its conscience in a matter of weeks. Also: How do you know the fetus is conscious or not if phenomenon starts between week 24 and 28? I myself am not truly sure about how to conceptualize this entirely. But so far, I think conception is the only non-arbitrary point in time to have a coherent argument from. That still doesn't mean one should disregard all arguments from the pro-choice side.
@oliver374
6 ай бұрын
The fundamental difference is that the patient would CONTINUE their conscious experience whereas the fetus will only BEGIN it. If it begins, it implies there is none to speak of currently.
@marcelbenner993
6 ай бұрын
@@oliver374 So do you want to balance the extreme uncertainty of a coma patient re-gaining consciousness versus the extreme likely beginning of consciousness of a fetus? To be honest, I don't see a difference... why would the continuation trump the beginning... the result is the same.
@trey3905
Жыл бұрын
that was super fun and interesting. I appreciate how civil it was, and obviously some of these students are nervous so kudos to steven for sometimes helping them make their point before giving his rebuttal! I would love move videos like this.
@zaidenmitchell7061
Жыл бұрын
Destiny low-key got destroyed here
@edclink5068
Жыл бұрын
Nah, the students could've done better as well.
@davidcampos8032
Жыл бұрын
They have the position that when the fetus is created it deserves moral consideration because it has the “potential of life” and Destiny’s whole position is that he doesn’t value “potential life” he values the life in itself he believes “life” begins when the brain is fully formed because that’s what gives us consciousness aka agency aka moral consideration. But that doesn’t give him a W or conservatives a W What we can take away is that this is just a subjective moral question and you can value “potential life” or “life” we will find out the winner by majority opinion.
@horouathos8199
Жыл бұрын
@@edclink5068 Could've nailed him better.
@horouathos8199
Жыл бұрын
@@davidcampos8032 Destiny ceded the argument to the first kid when they were talking about a toddler's consciousness in relation to an adult's. Destiny referenced a toddler's potential to develop to the point of having a richer conscious experience like an adult has, which is precisely the argument the kid was making for a fetus.
@davidcampos8032
Жыл бұрын
@@horouathos8199 yeah because the “potential” there is already existing. He believes you become aware(conscious) when the brain is fully developed in the womb. And that’s when life begins. The potential is there and alive but before the brain is developed the potential is to have awareness(consciousness) not that you have it already. It’s line drawing and you draw it before consciousness and destiny draws it when conciseness begins
@imskinne
Жыл бұрын
Oh please…. If you can start to legislate what or what not a women can do with her body, it will never stop. It’s a choice, being pro-choice doesn’t mean being pro-abortion, it does mean being able to make the decision if it does comes to emergencies, fetal death/child deformities. What’s so hard to understand.
@ddddddd5425
Жыл бұрын
really love how charitable destiny is during these.
@Jlavi25
Жыл бұрын
That’s how debates should be honestly
@HyenDry
Жыл бұрын
@@Jlavi25 Debates are supposed to have a point? that sounds pretty normatively loaded my guy ;)
@kyle8971
Жыл бұрын
Destiny understands that the kids on these campuses are not debaters or professional stans like a lot of the people he deals with online. These kids might have thought through their positions, but they might not have the vocabulary, public speaking ability or confidence like those who argue for a living. So Destiny being charitable is the best course of action to facilitate a conversation, especially when the people coming into these debates aren't immediately devolving into bad faith or fallacious arguments. Destiny does try to match the energy of his opposite and it's why when he finds someone who argues in good faith, those conversations tend to be some of the most productive; even if they aren't the most "entertaining."
@zyloz88
Жыл бұрын
@@HyenDry big words pogchamp
@Awaken_To_0
Жыл бұрын
Yash was fire, even though he was so nervous.
@wolfganghumboldt4830
Жыл бұрын
The soul shit was easily the worst argument I have heard for when life begins. Destiny was charitable to a fault there.
@MrGgabber
Жыл бұрын
Life begins at conception, biology is pretty universal with this concept. Destiny tried to argue from vague standards of "consciousness". He didn't even argue if it was alive or not, because it clearly is. Yes, arguing about a soul is arguing from a religious standpoint, and is less effective
@TallCanDan02
Жыл бұрын
First destiny vid I've watched in 2 months. Title and thumbnail managed to hook me, good work August
@cesper554
Жыл бұрын
Great video Destiny. Nice to see civilized discourse, and I thought you hosted this with charm and grace. Bravo
@coreytaylor1007
Жыл бұрын
Yo these are so fun, more of this! Props to 2nd guy, he was interesting and well spoken. Not sure I could follow his logic in the end but it was a good conversation.
@DiscGolf_
Жыл бұрын
Destiny should do more of these. He's exposing himself and most the people that sit down and talk are kind and calm. Way to go.
@leebliss3622
3 ай бұрын
Pfft please
@youngmahalo9406
Жыл бұрын
These people lose because they dont realise destiny is a girls name
@tibiloft7471
Жыл бұрын
Really well done by the students discussing. Cred for showing up in this public scenario, it's an valuable experience. Good points was brought up! Well done guys!
@Markipilar792
Жыл бұрын
Thanks ❤for watching and commenting, use the above number to acknowledge a price🎖🏆🎗 !!!!!
@dukeofminecraft
Жыл бұрын
thank god someone that actually knows how to debate is doing change my minds now, and actually uploading the clips of the discussions with students that know how to debate
@beebbopp2049
Жыл бұрын
"I don't believe things are SUPPOSED to happen" - So, you don't believe in Destiny?
@dragonore2009
Жыл бұрын
These students are better at articulating there positions, then online political streamers.
@MJJ07
Жыл бұрын
I feel the online political streamers try to use speed talking without facts or little facts to run past the conversation while others are observing what is being said and responding.
@terratheterribl
Жыл бұрын
I'm pro-life in the sense that I can't say when life begins, so I don't want to risk killing a life at all. I haven't heard a strong enough argument for when life starts, so I don't choose to risk it. The only thing I'm lenient on is like birth control, health risks or rape, or maybe first week abortion.
@SoldierGeneral64
Жыл бұрын
At least you acknowledge it's the risk and that's it. Regardless not sure why you justify forcing something on someone who is an alive human as opposed to one that is not proven to have one especially with the worse outcomes of aborted babies being born in foster care.
@jesterbons1558
Жыл бұрын
your saying regurgitating shit if yall dont want to risk having a child DONT HAVE SEX HOW ABOUT THAT women need to control themselves
@JewTube001
Жыл бұрын
Well your position it starts a few days after conception, it not conception. Pretty clear, you're not unclear on that. You just can't explain it well. Just where you personally feel the line should be drawn. Which yeah, is garden variety moderate pro-life.
@DistantKingdom
Жыл бұрын
your life started when you came into existence. when this happened is obvious
@SoldierGeneral64
Жыл бұрын
@@DistantKingdom Not really as one can not determine scientifically when this happens during fetus development as not enough current evidence. We can only determine when it definitely can not be given brain not created.
@fedorshestakov8970
Жыл бұрын
Isn’t it interesting that pro-lifers are way more accepting and calm than pro-choicers
@jackmclaughlin605
Жыл бұрын
My guy you’re clearly disabled
@marshclem2255
Жыл бұрын
Because pro-choicers aren’t calm because we feel people are stepping in and taking away our free will by outlawing abortion. To me it literally feels as if a fundamental right is being taken from me.
@sammartensson9897
Жыл бұрын
I hate that it is always focused around ”if abortions are right or wrong”. Obviously everyone wants there to be as few abortions as possible, and the way to get there is not by making abortions illegal. That would be equivelent of saying crime is illegal and therefore wont happen. If you really are pro-life then informing about safe sex, better sex-education and so on is what you should advocate for.
@bradlasalle2888
Жыл бұрын
The idea that "knowing the risk of pregnancy when you consent to sex means you consent to get pregnant, stay pregnant, and deliver the child" fails fundamentally on a number of levels. If you go to the store and forget to lock your front door, or even choose to not lock your door because you live in a nice neighborhood and will only be gone 5 minutes maximum, that does not mean you're consenting to the possibility of someone entering your home and stealing everything you have. If you do lock your door but don't keep your windows locked and boarded up, you're not consenting to the possibility that someone will open your window and do the same thing. If you keep your doors and windows triple-locked and protected, you're not consenting to the possibility that someone puts a gun to your head, brings you home, and forces you to unlock your home so they can do the same thing. Consent to an action is not consent to future actions stemming from said consented action.
@zebo6162
Жыл бұрын
Sex is naturally ordered towards (the potential of) pregnancy in the same way that eating is naturally ordered towards digestion. Just as it is disordered to vomit food or spit food out after eating it, it is disordered to block the natural product of sex. Under this understanding your example doesn’t hold because none of the actions or lack of actions you specified are naturally ordered towards being the victim of burglary.
@bradlasalle2888
Жыл бұрын
@@zebo6162 Your line of reasoning doesn't make any sense because I highly doubt you believe abortion is an equivalent action to burglary or vomiting after eating. This "natural order" doesn't say anything about whether that's a good or bad thing to do, or whether we should permit it as a society. Unless you're here trying to argue we should outlaw vomiting?
@Piglover1221
Жыл бұрын
Student 2 = based pro life god
@Markipilar792
Жыл бұрын
🔝🔝🔝🔝🔝🔝🔝🔝…..ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR PRIZE 🎁
@tracesoftimegallery450
Жыл бұрын
A fetus in the womb is not equivalent to a person in a coma with a .01% chance of waking up but rather a person in a coma with a 90% chance of waking up and Destiny is arguing that it is OK to pull the plug.
@danpolta8759
Жыл бұрын
The axis of comparison was not likelihood of experiencing consciousness. The axis of comparison was certainty versus uncertainty. You can try to break the metaphor if you like, but that's just ignoring the larger point.
@Its-me-no-it-isnt
Жыл бұрын
Well I think it’s ethical to do it, my great grandfather was supposed to wake up with a 90% chance but no one wanted to nurse him back to health, pay for his medical expenses as he would need medical care. Also he was a shitty person who molested his daughters.
@stephanierussell9746
Жыл бұрын
Excellent point.
@liammcfarlin3923
Жыл бұрын
Yash had possibly the best argument for prolife that I've heard in a long time. I'm gonna use that one to play devils advocate and make people mad.
@BornInsane0
Жыл бұрын
Lmfao based
@fourtyseven47572
Жыл бұрын
I havent watched the whole vid but I feel the best argument for pro life would be how we treat corpses. I doubt Destiny thinks defacing graves and necrophilia is morally neutral, but using the logic of concsious experience thats where he would end up
@ennuiii
Жыл бұрын
@@fourtyseven47572 necrophilia would be morally neutral if it weren't for the societal objection to the act, unlike abortion, a hyper majority of humans do not agree with necrophilia, so a person who is willing to put themselves against the odds of all of humanity is a different story. like you would admit a person who kills in a society where everyone is taught to kill is a different situation than someone who kills in our society.
@fourtyseven47572
Жыл бұрын
@@ennuiii so you personally think necrophilia should be legal?
@ennuiii
Жыл бұрын
@@fourtyseven47572 no lol, I, like most people, think it's disgusting, there's no logical reasoning for it though and that's fine, sometimes humans just need to go with majority appeal. you could make a stretch argument and say that the person in their life wouldn't want their body desecrated, but there's no way to prove whether or not they would care. and we don't really value the deads wishes in any other context legally unless it has been put in a will.
@josiahtitus
Жыл бұрын
I love yash man, hes very logical and firm in his views, and just seems like a nice dude overall.
@joshuaherman3278
Жыл бұрын
First guy trips up when stating that the early live of a toddler/child isn't important. Just because one can't remember these moments consciously they are some of the most formative moments of one's life. The emotions and experiences a child has can define the rest of their lives and the possible trauma they have to deal with upon years if the early stages of their live was traumatic. They'll never remember it, but it will stick with them forever.
@Koooles
Жыл бұрын
Yep, if anything I learnt that pro-lifers have some fucked up views about toddlers.
@joshuaherman3278
Жыл бұрын
@@Koooles In his defense he doesn't speak of all of them, I think it was more of an ignorant conclusion to make.
@jgbgw591
Жыл бұрын
I feel like he was being misunderstood. I don't think he meant that it wasn't important. It seemed like he meant that it wasn't as sophisticated and developed. It's ghoulish in my opinion for Destiny to imply that a fetus lacks value simply because it hasn't been afforded a chance to develop yet.
@punaofficialchannel
7 ай бұрын
If you end the development of a fetus or a the development of a toddler none of the future consequences would really matter.
@xander9460
5 ай бұрын
I appreciate that Destiny stays respectful. There's a few other youtubers that do this on campuses, and they are just personally destroying students, calling them dumb, be respectless. Gets no one nowhere.
@Jlavi25
Жыл бұрын
Absolutely devastated the first kid didn’t pick up on the pit bull joke
@Markipilar792
Жыл бұрын
Thanks ❤for watching and commenting, use the above number to acknowledge a price🎖🏆🎗 !!!!!
@dennyduane
Жыл бұрын
Toddler's experiences like walking, speaking, fundamentals of being human. Those years are our most formative years.
@gyn6131
Жыл бұрын
That's true. But most our growth is in the womb. Our characteristics are mostly formed in the womb.
@dennyduane
Жыл бұрын
@@gyn6131 in regards to understanding to consciousness and learning?
@gyn6131
Жыл бұрын
@@dennyduane consciousness and learning are just stages of developed in one's life. They are not defining factors of the definition of life. The big bang was the beginning of the universe. Not the first star, or the first planet, or the first bacteria, or the first person. It was the big bang. That was what began it all. Same goes with human life, its the fertilization that begins it all.
@gyn6131
Жыл бұрын
@@dennyduane technically yes. Because if something does not develop right in the womb, it can impair consciousness and the ability to learn later. A woman must choose the best man to create the best genetics with. Then she must treat her body like a temple to maximize the potential of the baby. She must have positive emotions as well. The baby is connected to her and feeds off that energy. The mother is also contributing more to that development during pregnancy, than the sperm has. Babies only take a fraction of characteristics from the father. Nearly 85% comes from the mother and that is because its spending 9 months inside of her.
@tecat3
Жыл бұрын
@@gyn6131 Men with poor genetics should have vasectomies as soon as they're capable of mating
@Bullets_Ouchie
Жыл бұрын
You do this structure far more effectively than Crowder ever did. It is refreshing to see mature discourse between two parties. I believe it is imperative that both sides (myself conservative leaning) TALK to each other calmly to help understand each other's reasoning and where we can potentially meet in the middle for sane policy to help move this country forward. Subscribed!
@link10909
Жыл бұрын
I wonder how much is the interviewer's(crowder vs destiny) influence, how much is editing (crowder leaving out boring/good debaters), and how much is the quality of the people engaging (college leftys being more chaotic than rightys).
@schwann145
Жыл бұрын
Crowder did (does?) these in bad faith, while Destiny is doing them in good faith. That's the difference.
@link10909
Жыл бұрын
@@schwann145 "Bad faith" arguments involve pretending to believe something which he does not. Having a large sign saying "This is what I believe change my mind" doesn't appear to be bad faith. He doesn't hide the terms of the deal and doesn't appear to edit things deceptively, how is it in bad faith? If you mean he is rude, well I agree Crowder appears more rude to those across from him than Destiny does but that may be a function of any one of the options I pointed to. I would argue if anything Destiny acts more out of bad faith (in general) because while he is actually a leftist, he often displays a more measured centrist tone in hopes to move conservatives closer to leftism. He explained this position when Mr. Girl challenged him for having conversations with hard right folks.
@ihsahnakerfeldt9280
Жыл бұрын
@@link10909""Bad faith""arguments involve pretending to believe something which he does not." This is not how most people understand the term "bad faith." Bad faith is understood to mean engaging in dishonest tactics during a debate to muddy the waters or derail a certain point (using any tactic) instead of honestly engaging with the points the way your opponent presents them. Just because you have a large sign announcing your actual belief or just because you were initially honest about your bias and where you're coming from doesn't stop you from engaging in bad faith arguments during the course of a debate. It simply does not follow. If you watch Crowder's "Change My Mind" vids and compare them to Destiny, you'd notice how Crowder is less interested in having an actual discussion to reach a better understanding and more in winning the debate no matter what (the same goes for a lot of Vaush's content, depending on subject), including using dishonest tactics like strawmanning and shifting the goal posts, ie arguing in bad faith. A primary example is his discussion with a college student called Yousef. Iirc Yousef was challenging Crowder's position with some really good arguments, but all it took was him calling a basic doctrine of Crowder's belief system (I think it was the non-aggression principle) autistic for Crowder to latch onto that, pearl-clutch derail the entire discussion instead of letting Yousef make his point.
@JGD714
10 ай бұрын
@@ihsahnakerfeldt9280 the way you described that Yousef argument makes Yousef sound like the one acting in bad faith and Crowder just responding in kind.
@mickpratt8327
Жыл бұрын
First kid was tough to listen to. He holds no value in the cognitive experience of a toddler but would keep a person in a vegetative state alive indefinitely.
@itsyaboyjace9625
Жыл бұрын
i disagree with destiny on most things but i can really respect him for actually having civil conversation with people he disagrees with
@jacepalermo6053
Жыл бұрын
I agree Jace
@sneeky2144
Жыл бұрын
It's baffling to me how difficult it is with most of these people to engage with the idea of what conscious experience. They seem to have a really difficult time understanding what it means to experience being alive. It felt like half of the discussion with each person was Destiny trying to explain what a conscious experience is.
@vintinoo1924
Жыл бұрын
I agree
@christianlima987
Жыл бұрын
Did you watch the video. What is experiencing being alive? How dont developing cells experience being alive, cells are aware of their environment.
@ChuckCannon
Жыл бұрын
@@christianlima987 OP brought up an interesting sticking point which is probably just a way of looking at things that few consider about a fetus since it is isolated and mute and experiences of consciousness are strictly qualitative from current science as far as I'm aware. But that is a consciousness born of a collection of groups of cells throughout the body, not a single cell. A single cell or even a few stages along in development is not "aware" in any sense, it strictly responds to its environment and divides into other cells based on its genetic information like computer instructions, or a math formula. We do not place the weight we do on human life because of any awareness human fetuses have that other mammals do not.
@MrGgabber
Жыл бұрын
Because Destiny's definition was vague and arbitrary, like most irrelevant arguments of consciousness
@ChuckCannon
Жыл бұрын
@@MrGgabber In what way? Did you even listen to his reasoning? (The Emergence of Human Consciousness: From Fetal to Neonatal Life. Hugo Lager- crantz and Jean-Pierre changeux in Pediatric Research, Vol. 65, no. 3, pages 255-260; march 2009)
@SenorJoeBiden
Жыл бұрын
Yash’s argument at 20:00 is why this entire discussion sounds like telling woman what they can and can’t do.
@gyn6131
Жыл бұрын
We tell men what they can and can't do too. It's essential in having a functional society. Rule #1: don't kill other people.
@lkergjoieriojtgijteo
Жыл бұрын
the best argument for pro choice is this: imagine you hit someone with your car. as a result, their kidney has ruptured and you have only minor injuries. you're both at the hospital. the person you hit needs a kidney transplant and you'd be a perfect donor. hell, let's say you're the only compatible donor in the world. it's your fault that the person is hurt. would you force that person to donate their kidney to save the victim of the accident? that would be illegal in today's medical practice. it's the same situation with pregnancy. we cannot compel someone to sacrifice their bodily autonomy in medicine, even if it's to save someone's life, even if someone's life is at risk because it's their "fault."
@lindsaypaige4628
Жыл бұрын
But the unborn baby does not require organ donation, nor is a car accident the same thing intentionally ending someone's life. If thats the best argument prochoice has then it sucks
@lkergjoieriojtgijteo
Жыл бұрын
@@lindsaypaige4628 are you dense? the unborn baby requires use of the mother's body, which almost always includes significant injury (pussy and asshole ripping during birth, bladder problems, etc.), longterm health complications, and sometimes death. a car accident is an accident, just like getting pregnant is an accident. the best intentioned drivers get in an accident- we do not force them to use their bodies to save the accident victim.
@adamr4667
Жыл бұрын
@@lkergjoieriojtgijteo I've tried this argument on people and it always ends up talking about whether you should be able to abort in the 3rd trimester or right before birth for example and honestly when my conservative friends say this I have no response to them
@lkergjoieriojtgijteo
Жыл бұрын
@@adamr4667 if there’s a medical reason to abort in the third trimester, absolutely it should be legal. the vast majority of abortions don’t happen in this scenario and it’s a red herring by conservatives who have 0 empathy or medical understanding. you think anyone is getting an abortion in the third trimester for fun?
@tatosmc
Жыл бұрын
this is so much better content than talking with people that cant develop an original thought and apply critical thinking to topics or towards themselves like sneako or others that u have "debated" with.
@BillAlias
Жыл бұрын
"I know the definition of consciousness" Student 4 has solved philosophy, we're finally done
@truvelocity
Жыл бұрын
None of these questions are about the medical implications involving abortion. Why and when is abortion necessary? These things are not even discussed. Its just completely ignored.
@jhallin5185
Жыл бұрын
abortion is technically stopping a pregnancy, not the dismemberment and removal by suction. could that baby live if an abortion is performed, possibly but not if it's in pieces. but to your original point its almost never necessary to kill the baby outright, and I say almost becuase nothing in support of prolife can leave 1 instance where it had to be done.
@jesterbons1558
Жыл бұрын
because the medical reason damn near doesnt exist its girls using it to take away their bad decisions and irresponsibilities
@truvelocity
Жыл бұрын
@@jesterbons1558 that’s a grossly uninformed reply. 44% of all pregnancies result in a spontaneous abortion (AKA miscarriage) and if you don’t abort the fetus in response to it, it can result in sepsis which can lead to death or infertility.
@truvelocity
Жыл бұрын
@@jhallin5185, I think we need to define what a baby is, first. Because something the size of a lentil at 8 weeks that isn’t even visible by the naked eye and has no viable heart nor brain, isn’t exactly valued unless its for a philosophical or religious belief. Its not like the world is underpopulated or that we need more people at this point.
@jesterbons1558
Жыл бұрын
@@truvelocity right but we definitely need the stupid irresponsible people to keep fucking right? lol you cant admit people like you dont have self control you want a system to come in rid you of your irresponsibilities. what exactly would you do if every single doctor on planet earth decided to stop performing abortions
@stopandthinkaboutit8636
Жыл бұрын
"The broadest scientific definition might be that life is what enables plants and animals to consume food, derive energy from it, grow, adapt themselves to their surroundings, and reproduce." - Dr. Beverly Crusher (STNG) In the context of the episode "cells".
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