Your points about Narrative Gaps were spot-on, that's a great way to conceptualize it! I'm a fan, in general, of symmetrical rules, because to me it creates a consistent "physics" for the world, that the world operates a certain way regardless of the presence or absence of the players. That physics engine is a playground for me to stimulate whatever I need while remaining fair and consistent, rather than arbitrary. It may be controversial, but I'm actually not a fan of "the GM adjudicates everything" types of experiences, where they're assumed to be performing all sorts of asymmetrical forms of rules that they then "break" as they see fit. That's not to say that one method is superior to the other, but I have definitely developed a preference over the years. Every game should be conscientious about which approach they take! You also make a very good point about unintentional asymmetry; I'll need to be careful about that in my game!
@cmagoun497
4 күн бұрын
I am generally a fan of symmetry also and I agree with you physics comparison... but having run large, detailed superhero games and various incarnations of D&D3.5, Pathfinder, etc., it is sometimes nice to streamline enemies. I appreciate minion rules and simplified stat blocks, even though those definitely introduce some asymmetry (and wonkiness) at times. But yeah, I also am not a fan of an over-reliance on "rulings not rules." I am all for making rulings, but I do want my rules to be "complete" and "make sense". As you said, "be conscientious about which approach you take."
@ravenroc1784
7 күн бұрын
Yes they punish us every chance. They get.
@robhannum
7 күн бұрын
I think the reason why anyone plays a game is to have fun. I always leave it up to the DM to be the one to enforce/include what rules make the most sense to maximize the fun. That's it, just a general statement. As a player, when things are too easy because of the mechanics - boring.. As a player, when things are almost impossible - frustrating. The sweet spot, I think, is to make it a challenge but not so much that the board flips or you lose a friend. hehehehe........ Thanks for sharing, great video.
@cmagoun497
7 күн бұрын
In general, I think the warning is to understand the Law of Unintended Consequences. You added a new wound rule, great! Now your players go into every dungeon with various penalties and injuries... is that really what you want?
@robhannum
6 күн бұрын
@@cmagoun497 No.. I understand and agree with what you say.. honestly.. I am just saying.. don't blame the rules.. don't blame the DM.. there are some imperfections.. here and there.. correct them as you see fit.. but deal with them as you may.. and my main philosophy FUN.. make it fun .. For the players.. for the GM.. from my experience.. I have seen people stick with a DM for 20 years.. why..? they complained.. but never really got into correcting anything.. .. and 20-30 years went by.. so sad,, DON'T be sad.. play and have fun .. or don't.. that is all.. as for your argument.. very specific.. and I do not know enough to know why.. so I am a generalist.. have fun.. or dont do it.. that is all..
@robhannum
6 күн бұрын
I will put it in another way that I think is the summary.... "Let the Wookiee win." yep.. that is all..
@beaudwayful
6 күн бұрын
Losing, in RPGs, can be interesting though. Lose fight, get captured, now have a cool escape scenario. I only don't like losing if it feels contrived, arbitrary or inescapable. If I decide to fight a foe that is too difficult, and I should know better, that's on me. If I have atrocious die rolls, that's just bad luck. But yea, I don't want to be arbitrarily punished by the GM.
@cmagoun497
6 күн бұрын
Yes, fun is the ultimate goal. For me, part of that fun is seeing how the rules I design, or the rulings I make, impact the fun of both me and the players. Thus, there is an element of over-analyzing that goes into that fun -- I am just making videos about it now.
@Drudenfusz
2 күн бұрын
You started out mentioning that symmetry is between layers, like it usually indeed is used, but then talked only about symmetry between characters. I think it is silly to chase after symmetry between characters, the only thing of interest is the symmetry between the players. That is why my own system I am working on is GM-less which is usually the biggest symmetry breaker in our hobby, that was not even mentioned since the video got lost in the symmetry between characters.
@valery_bondarchik
6 күн бұрын
But why would you need symmetrical or "fair" rules for PCs and NPCs? Does it matter that injuries only penalize PCs? What matters is whether the injury system is fun. Minions are fun, who cares that there are some edge cases in the rules. I really like when asymmetry simplifies things or makes my life as a DM easier (one such example is monster abilities instead of monster spell lists)
@cmagoun497
6 күн бұрын
I don't think you NNED fair/symmetrical rules for PCs and NPCs. Tabletop RPGs by their nature are somewhat asymmetrical because they are heavily focused on the PCs, and rightfully so. But as I mentioned in the video, sometimes we create rules that ultimately just penalize the PCs. If you have a travel/journey system that ultimately just imposes penalties on the PCs as they get to the main adventure... is that bad? Well that rule better be pretty darn fun, give the players interesting decisions, create a fascinating narrative, or have some kind of risk/reward upside, or really what is the point? I think my players like the wound/injury system in our game, even though PCs are generally the ones who are stuck with the lingering penalties. I think we all agree that it makes combat more exciting when they can down an enemy with a quick mortal wound... and it makes the choice of bringing adequate healing important. The point is that sometimes we create rules for one reason (say a more detailed sim) and what they add is... less fun?
@valery_bondarchik
6 күн бұрын
@@cmagoun497 oh, I absolutely agree that we should be careful with adding more rules. I was just thinking that NPCs don't need to work as PCs rules wise. They just need to behave in a believable manner from a player's perspective. Other than that the rules can be completely different IMO
@cmagoun497
6 күн бұрын
They can be... and I think sometimes it's great. Minions in D&D4e are great and I use them all the time now. I think you have to be thoughtful about asymmetric rules though. When we played Crown and Skull and tried to map the fights, I realized that the rules didn't really work mapped because there isn't an action system for monsters the same way there is for players...? That was my fault for mapping the combat, I think -- C&S is meant to be vague and Jeremy Bearemy.
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