Here’s how much Protestants who claim to believe in the real presence of Christ in the eucharist, actually believe in the real presence: They throw the leftovers in the trash
@bottomoftherabbithole
9 ай бұрын
Poignant dagger of an observation. I was genuinely floored and taken aback when he seriously claimed with a straight face to believe what the Holy Fathers taught about the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Lord have mercy!
@KevinDay
9 ай бұрын
So the Protestants who don't throw the leftovers in the trash must be the True Church then? Or are you going to pretend they don't exist to suit your narrative?
@bottomoftherabbithole
9 ай бұрын
@@KevinDayobviously no sweeping statement can be applied to all Protestantism, due to the nature of its ever-fragmenting and degenerating nature. This comment obviously wasn't meant to be a polemical argument. But it is indeed quite poignant for those that do treat their own "communion" bread/oyster crackers/oreos/skittles in that way. Feel free to take this seriously and engage with the substance of the video at any point. Or better yet, watch my video on Protestant epistemology first
There are Protestants that do believe in the real presence, but there are many that also see it more of a symbol or sign. We would all do better to not speak on things we are not experts on. I am guilty of this personally from time to time. The ones that didn't reform as far from the Catholic church generally take it more seriously. Say Lutherans/Presbyterians, didn't go quite as far as say Baptists. (Although there are a minority of Baptist denominations that take it a bit more serious.) I am a Protestant myself, but I fully respect my Catholic/Orthodox brothers and sisters in Christ.
@Momonga32
9 ай бұрын
I love this surge in Orthodoxy. The Holy Spirit is moving people to the truth, Praise God Almighty
@rigavitch
9 ай бұрын
Indeed!
@bottomoftherabbithole
9 ай бұрын
I wholeheartedly believe what we've experienced as far as conversions go in this country is only the tip of the iceberg. I think the Christian landscape in the West is going to look radically different in 10 years. Grant this, O Lord!
@AppalachianScotist
5 ай бұрын
A surge yet by all metrics we have it looks like the EO church in America is imploding...
@AustimosPrime
9 ай бұрын
Dude. The way you explain things and briefly preface each point makes the arguments extremely bulletproof. You’re a very skilled orator. I’m grateful you’re online promoting Orthodoxy. God bless!
@dtraxinger25
9 ай бұрын
I've been going at this for a while, but that's it, this just convinced me of Orthodox.
@andrewm9079
9 ай бұрын
Glory to God 🙏🏻 ☦️
@bondservantandbrideoflogos7570
9 ай бұрын
Glory to God. Come and see the Divine Liturgy as soon as you can 💗
@jacobschultz7201
9 ай бұрын
Let God arise ☦️ welcome! Praying for you, my friend
@joeskill4663
8 ай бұрын
I’m just starting. 😀…came back to God in 2021. Went to a charismatic Church for 2 years. Now been attending an Easter Orthodox Church for one month. I’m enjoying the learning process. Pray for me ..👍🏽🙏🏽❤️🩹
@FaithfulComforter
6 ай бұрын
@@joeskill4663God bless you 🙏☦️❤️
@lizziepavlakou4440
9 ай бұрын
How I wish my son could see your video ,I’m Greek Orthodox I’m Cypriot unfortunately my son is now Protestant it’s very sad because he’s a completely different person for the worst.keep doing your work for our Lord ,teaching His truth I hope many will be saved from watching your videos especially in these times please pray for me. Thankyou for making this video ,may our good Lord bless you and your family.
@EBlmnop69865
9 ай бұрын
I love that you began this video praising Jeff’s anti-abortion work. I also found him through his pro life/street preaching videos and found them so blessed and inspiring. You’re so excellent at respectfully debating his claims!
@Nihit_Arora_Eagle
9 ай бұрын
I'm a former hindu converted to pentecostal protestantism(11 years ago) now eventually on my way to orthodoxy☦️ My desire I may get baptized in orthodox church❤
@prayunceasingly2029
9 ай бұрын
I was baptized in a pentecostal church in Jesus name only. I hope to one day get baptized in the name of the trinity. In the name of the Father, son and holy spirit.
@gabrielgabriel5177
5 ай бұрын
This is where pentecostals are good. They bring people from other religions to christianity. But they still have an error. Its good you found orthodoxy. I hope orthodox church would herself do more missionary effort as pentecostals do in all the countries of the world.
@acekoala457
9 ай бұрын
He's Arguing like James White because James White is his mentor. I used to follow Jeff too but I wasn't convinced of Calvinism and I almost became Lutheran. I'm glad I became Orthodox.
@broman9075
9 ай бұрын
I was introduced to the fathers by Dr James white, trouble is I decided to study the fathers and church history and now my wife, kids and I just attended our first Russian Orthodox Church yesterday. We're home, so in one way I must thank Dr White, otherwise I'd still be a calvinist. We did make a pitstop in Lutheran Church before making it to Orthodoxy.
@SaltShack
9 ай бұрын
Dr. White is a wonderful, talented and brilliant scholar. His criticism of Orthodoxy is limited to disagreement with the “smells and bells”. It seems his objections stem from ritual being anachronistic and unnecessary in a modern literate society. In other words why worship, experience the fullness of the Gospel, as the Apostles, Apostolic Fathers, Church Fathers, Saints and Martyrs did when you can read scripture yourself and call on the presence of the Holy Spirit to you personally? The answer is ignoring the Church is ignoring Scripture and without it you are subject to heresy. The Orthodox Church is the only Church that remains faithful to the fundamental principle of enduring consensus that Scripture defines as pleasing to the Holy Spirit and is in fact as the Church was when it was as Scripture commands of One Mind and Judgement before the Great Schism.
@AgapeJiuJitsu-nz4vj
9 ай бұрын
Welcome Home!!!
@bondservantandbrideoflogos7570
9 ай бұрын
God bless those who brought you here, and pray for those and forgive those who are off the path. Grace and mercy and love of God to you and those who’ve impacted y’all’s lives to get you there.
@alexanderderus2087
9 ай бұрын
Amen brother!! Welcome home ☦️🙏🏼
@ScottKlaudt
5 ай бұрын
Thank God
@tubalcain6874
9 ай бұрын
I'm 65, and late in life I walked away from the evangelical Protestantism of my birth. I was received into the Orthodox Church ☦️ and never looked back. We've been seeing an exponential growth in our little Antiochian parish, particularly with young men and young families. Evangelicalism is getting more goofy, and compounded with the degradation and increased coarseness in our culture, I think this growth to the ancient church is a given. I'm seeing more attacks against Orthodoxy coming from the unnerved evangelicals. Not a day goes by anymore that I'm not thankful that world is far in my rear view mirror.
@RonaldSeese-sx4ow
9 ай бұрын
I was a Baptist Protestant until I read the apostolic fathers. You’re right that you won’t remain a Protestant once you know the truth. I knew there were some things wrong but didn’t understand.The real Eucharist was the first thing I realized was wrong with my church reading the fathers. After that I reexamined all our doctrine in light of both the scripture and the fathers. Everything suddenly made sense that never made sense before. Then I just had to figure out which ancient church was the least innovative and most true to the original and decided on Orthodoxy. My wife Alyson is still Baptist, please pray for her conversion.
@NavelOrangeGazer
9 ай бұрын
Well it all depends on what your willing to give up to follow truth. There's lots of money in protestant circles and many aren't willing to give that up. That's why they'll come up with ridiculous arguments to avoid coming to Orthodoxy.
@lionofjudahlambofgod9132
9 ай бұрын
Ive never met one Orthodox evangelist. If someone doesnt believe enough to care for the lost and dying souls around them their faith is vain. The true church keeps the commandments of Jesus and one of them is to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
@acekoala457
9 ай бұрын
@@lionofjudahlambofgod9132 I guess you've never heard of St. Herman of Alaska, St. Raphael of Brooklyn, Sts. Cyril and Methodius, St. Patrick of Ireland or Metropolitan Makarios of Kenya. Just because you haven't met them doesn't mean they don't exist. This isn't an argument against Orthodoxy. Because what is "Saving Souls" worth when you are giving them falsehoods borne of Satan?.
@bottomoftherabbithole
9 ай бұрын
@@lionofjudahlambofgod9132this is irrational, shallow and honestly, corny. Also ironic, considering you're commenting on a video of an Orthodox Christian evangelizing Protestants lol. I recommend watching my video on the fatal flaw of Protestant Epistemology. Time to start taking the truth seriously.
@NavelOrangeGazer
9 ай бұрын
@@lionofjudahlambofgod9132 assuming you are American we are literally less than one percent of the population so chances are it's likely most people would go their entire lives without encountering an Orthodox Christian. Yet somehow you're here... This is yet another thing protestants need to make up their mind on. Either we don't evangelize or "stop evangelizing protestants" (the new cope due to protestants not believing any one sect has absolute truth and instead having opted for a soft relativism in the wake of the ecumenical movement). Protestants can't have it both ways.
@t-bonet-bone713
9 ай бұрын
Wow, I was just out tonight walking, listening to your vid on epistemology, and the protestant beliefs for about the 6th time, and thinking “I hope he (being you) will make more vids on Orthodox vs Protestant beliefs and then BOOM!!! There it is! I can’t listen to it tonight, but I had to say something now, and I definitely will listen to it tomorrow morning! You may or may not know it, but these videos are so helpful for those of us who are searching. Technically, I’m still a protestant, but I Just need to figure out one more thing and then most likely off to be a catechumen at the local Greek Orthodox Church! I’m taking my time yes, but I want to be absolutely sure I am going in the right direction. Your vids have been a huge part of that-Thank you is not enough to express my sincere gratitude for you.
@joanna400
9 ай бұрын
@@otarisuxiashvili22You can spam this in every comment, it doesn't change the documents like the Alexandria document and recent Vatican admissions that you are wrong. I was Roman Catholic and converted for good reasons.
@monicatofan8732
9 ай бұрын
Come home to Orthodoxy
@jimatreidēs
9 ай бұрын
Great video once again! There is no Protestant who reads church history and patristics with an unbiased mind, that will not become Orthodox.
@WhiskyRidge
9 ай бұрын
Exactly my story. After years of not being settled with Protestant churches, I set out to find the original church with the commitment to have the intellectual honesty to embrace what I found - which is Orthodoxy.
@nezz4168
9 ай бұрын
And the truth shall set u free God Bless u brother!@@WhiskyRidge
@joshuatrott193
9 ай бұрын
I know many who have become Anglican after reading apostolic father's
@bottomoftherabbithole
9 ай бұрын
@@joshuatrott193closer but no cigar
@bottomoftherabbithole
9 ай бұрын
@@sameash3153 there is no church outside the Church my brother. Being closer in doctrine than your average run of the mill evangelical doesn't cut it. There is only one faith. One Lord. One Church. One Baptism. Do not delay. "It's later than you think." -St. Seraphim of Platina
@saltnpepperfire318
9 ай бұрын
I about half way through this. As a Catholic I feel like so far you have done a very amazing job answering these claims! You get my subscription!
@giessel
9 ай бұрын
I spent several years following Mr. Durbin's work in 2018. I greatly admire his zeal for Christ and seeking truth. After a long journey in the world of protestantism and atheism, my husband and I have been received into the Holy Orthodox church this year. Praise God! As someone who grew up with a lot of these protestant pastors, thank you for being respectful. I truly believe they will come to the true faith through love and respectful dialogue. God bless you. ☦️
@fantasia55
9 ай бұрын
Durbin has a zeal for Durbin.
@jacobschultz7201
9 ай бұрын
Excellent work as always, glory to God. The thought and effort you put into these vids does not go unnoticed. Thank you and please keep it up!
@josephk4310
9 ай бұрын
The Orthodox Faith, is about, a continuous life of Repentance and Faith until we pass on to the afterlife.
@fishosoficaldebaitsphiloso7760
9 ай бұрын
I don’t think Durbin will take the bait. Big time pastors have too much to lose generally in humbling themselves to their errors. Fair and polite presentation Paul. Much better than the one on Ortland in that regard. Good job. 😊
@NavelOrangeGazer
9 ай бұрын
This is for any protestants that have stumbled upon this vid. If you are going to make anti Orthodox applogetics. Actually do your homework read our saints, our Church fathers. Dont just lazily repackage anti Rome apologetics. This hackney panicked anti Orthodox polemic that has arisen in recent years due to those leaving the various protestantisms due to their thirst for truth isn't going to get better with lazy apologetics.
@TheTransfiguredLife
9 ай бұрын
💯💯
@WhiskyRidge
9 ай бұрын
The level of ignorance is astounding and detrimental, sadly.
@aaronwolf4211
9 ай бұрын
Honestly, I hope they keep it up. Because this steady, trickling stream of converts will gradually then suddenly transform into a thunderous waterfall into the deep pool of Orthodoxy. Glory to God!
@Grizaptimus
7 ай бұрын
I recently found an Orthodox Monastery in Oklahoma City of all places. I've been going there for just over a week for the daily services. It was a bit odd as Other than the Priest and the Reader, I was the only one there. One thing really struck me though. This was not a performance for an audience! They didn't start the service when I got there. If no one showed up, They still would have performed the liturgy! That right there hit me like a box of rocks. I must admit that I still have some issues to deal with, Icon's mainly, but Fr. gave me some books to read. I just finished "Becoming Orthodox" and am starting on The Mystical Marriage: Spiritual Life According to St. Maximos the Confessor. I think one of the most difficult things for most Americans is really the sheer culture shock of it all. Because that is what it is, a completely different culture. Anyway I am looking forward to going back this morning when I get off work.
@Dlee-eo5vv
9 ай бұрын
Thank you, reader Paul, for holding firm to the deposit of faith. It is tempting to water down in order to not offend, but without clear truth, we do great injustice to their salvation and our Lord. To be clear the flesh of Jesus, it's no just human flesh, it's Devine human flesh.
@slickmechanical
9 ай бұрын
Speaking as Roman Catholic, I appreciate your engagement with protestants. I was raised a protestant myself and it is a dreadful set of heresies. I noticed you mentioned the Roman Church's efforts at systematizing the understanding of Transubstantiation done especially at the Council of Trent in the mid 1500s. I'd like to explain that this systmatization was extremely necessary at the time precisely due to the protestant errors which were abounding and deceiving many. The western Church at the time was battling with whole regions who were turning to these strange doctrines and those regions were interspersed with those who held to the Roman Church. It was very easy to have the traditional doctrines or understandings watered down or corrupted due to protestant influence, so the Church had to basically systematized and define everything. That's why the western Church seems much more of a rationalist perspective than the Eastern which is a much more mystical perspective. The East had to resist Islam but it was much easier to draw distinctions between those doctrines and the orthodox beliefs. Protestantism is much closer to orthodox belief than Islam, and many were deceived. I thought I'd share that. We may disagree about some things but we disagree less with each other than with any other traditions and I pray God restores Christendom with a reunification of East and West to His greater Glory.
@Corolla97ww
9 ай бұрын
Interesting explanation of some of the differences between the Western and Eastern church.
@LadderOfDescent
9 ай бұрын
Roman Catholicism is only a more consistent calvanism.
@slickmechanical
9 ай бұрын
@@LadderOfDescent you have no idea what you're talking about. We have an entire decade long council specifically refuting the errors of Calvinism. They're not the same in any way.
@LadderOfDescent
9 ай бұрын
@@slickmechanical Ok
@LadderOfDescent
9 ай бұрын
@@slickmechanical Aquinas was NOTHING like John Calvin in theology. Light years apart 😂
@PETERJOHN101
9 ай бұрын
I was raised Protestant (nominally) but later researched all of Christendom to discover that my theology has always been Orthodox. You have done a good job here of breaking down Durbin's inconsistencies and expositing the fallacies of his Protestant theology. I don't know that he hasn't experienced regeneration through faith, but most Calvinists seem to fall into Moralism. I find that Calvinists are forever making the case for law keeping while rarely teaching the necessity for grace through faith, *_except_* when attacking Catholicism. This may be of much greater concern than how a Calvinist sees the Eucharist in my view. I enjoyed your discussion. God bless! ☦
@AgapeJiuJitsu-nz4vj
9 ай бұрын
Thank you my orthodox brother !!! Awesome rebuttal on Jeff Durbin.
@pankratiast
6 ай бұрын
That was masterful!! Your articulation and gentleness is a blessed addition to the Orthodox faith!! God bless you!!
@deadalivemaniac
9 ай бұрын
One thing I’ll say as a Calvinist convert is this: Protestants, you need to understand your apologetics are why we’re like this. When I was Protestant, the way I argued was never an issue. It is still exactly the same. Aggressive but not unkind. Its widespread. A good example is Sam Shamoun. When he was Calvinist, nobody batted an eye and every Protestant cheered him on. As soon as he left Protestantism, that’s when his actions became unacceptable. Anyone who engages in online apologetics as a Protestant debates this way in comments. Not as extreme as Sam but still quite aggressively. But, the second I was Orthodox, suddenly it was triumphalist and arrogant. I was arguing wrong. I was being uncharitable. Nothing about how I talked or acted changed, it was only my views. So if you’re wondering where all this is coming from, you created this beast. And many of us, myself included, were becoming increasingly aware of the heresies and errors of Protestantism. The two combined are the fruits you’re now seeing in online interactions with Orthodoxy. Meet us in person and it’ll probably be far less heated since this is how people debate online.
@bridgerbond
9 ай бұрын
I would love to sit down in person and grab a coffee with you - at least I know I would have someone who knows church history better than me. I know we’ve been back and forth on another thread but I’ve enjoyed our convo. Hopefully, I’m not that rude Calvinist Protestant who is uncharitable. I’m direct but sincere - and I hope that is coming across on our other thread.
@Journey_of_Abundance
9 ай бұрын
There's simply no refuge for the protestant position on these issues. It's all just reactionary to Rome, just as it was in the beginning.
@Rue1008
5 ай бұрын
Thank you - I am a protestant and I needed to hear this ... on my way back to the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church ... researching and more researching 🙏
@MrEvoXI
9 ай бұрын
So when they baptize new church members is that a resacrifice of Christ? Since Baptism is death, burial, and resurrection with Christ..
@acekoala457
9 ай бұрын
Zoopers. Never thought about it that way.
@nicodemuseam
9 ай бұрын
Baptism is a participation in the death, burial and Resurrection of the Lord.
@franciscafazzo3460
8 ай бұрын
not true
@gregorypizarro9403
9 ай бұрын
I was a Reformed Christian for a very long time. I came back to the Holy Catholic Church. I’m in the process of with rites and becoming a Melkite Greek Catholic. Great response!
@mildroar
9 ай бұрын
When he reads John 6:29 and says all we have to do is trust Jesus and believe in him, I can’t figure out how protestants in general, conclude that believing in him doesn’t require you to adhere to any of his other teachings. I think that message is what is driving me to look into Orthodoxy having given up Protestantism in my youth (the only version of Christianity I had experience of). Protestantism seems to me to not require any commitment, just tell everyone around you that you believe in Jesus and so you are saved, and that’s that. Hard for me to believe that something as important as the salvation of your soul could appear so noncommittal. From my limited understanding of the Church (ecclesiology, theology, history, etc) I don’t think it was ever understood that being a Christian was supposed to be that easy.
@mildroar
9 ай бұрын
I see you sort of address that a few seconds later. Haha. Anyways, I appreciate your channel in helping me towards the faith. God bless you and your family.
@ShrakeApologetics
Ай бұрын
I was a Protestant evangelist and apologist who is close to becoming a catechumen of the Greek Orthodox Church. What led me out was the church fathers and church history. As well as interpretation of scripture, why are the Protestants right vs 1000 years of church history? And lastly, poorly formed arguments from Prots against the Traditional Churches. Thanks brother! I’m trying to take Protestants with me.
@bottomoftherabbithole
Ай бұрын
@@ShrakeApologetics glory to God. Grant this, O Lord!
@deadalivemaniac
9 ай бұрын
As a former Calvinist who took many pointers from Durbin and especially White, I loved you bringing in the presuppositional approach. I’d love to see someone knowledgeable on Calvinist theology throw the wrench of total depravity into their works. And I’m honestly surprised Durbin pulled the whole “They disagree,” bit, you’d think him being a Protestant would know that when arguments over sects get brought up.
@nivchek
3 ай бұрын
Thank you. I’m an Orthodox convert of 24 years but this type of language, as Mr. Durbin is using it, is still very triggering and upsetting for me. Thank you for pointing out what he’s doing, which really helps me keep my mind clear of this Protestant drivel. Thank you so much, Reader Paul!
@BeardedMi42
2 ай бұрын
I would love to see a debate with Jeff Durbin! Let’s go!
@jeremiahstiles3383
9 ай бұрын
As someone who also benefited from Durbin's ministry in the past, I love how respectful you are in this video. For what it's worth, I also appreciate the restraint on putting sound effects/gifs in, as that can be a distraction from the core of your content, which would be a shame, because I think your arguments deserve undivided attention. Thanks for doing what you're doing here. Lord have mercy on us, sinners.
@definit1on119
9 ай бұрын
I am Protestant who loves orthodoxy I do think I’m being lead into orthodoxy theologically. I don’t believe in once saved always saved as well as saved by faith alone. I was having this conversation about icons which Protestantism is against how ever our church has a nativity scene. 🤔
@micahwatz1148
9 ай бұрын
“Do not work for the food which perishes”
@aliyamathiesen7290
9 ай бұрын
Another reformed convert here! Keep up the great content! Hopefully Jeff sees this!
@elijahyungwirth9743
9 ай бұрын
Im interested in learning about early church teachings. I grew up non-denominational, went atheist for a good while which God miraculously brought me out of. Im currently denominationally homeless and genuinely want to know what Christ intended the Church to look like. Can you give me an idea of a book or two where i can learn about some Church history?
@bottomoftherabbithole
9 ай бұрын
"Rock and Sand" by Fr. Josiah Trenham is an *absolute prerequisite* for anyone inquiring into Orthodoxy from a Protestant background. It was sold out for a while but it may be back in print now. If not then it should be extremely soon. Start by watching the 2 hour interview he did summarizing the book on KZitem. Just type rock and sand fr. Josiah and at will pop up! May our risen Lord continue to bless and guide you and confirm you in Holy Orthodoxy🙏☦️
@OrthoChi20
9 ай бұрын
Excellent, and gracious response video to the false teachings of durbin! Glory to the Holy Trinity and thank you brother Paul 🙏🏼 ☦️
@rachel.wilson
8 ай бұрын
How did I not know you had a channel?! Subbed!
@bottomoftherabbithole
8 ай бұрын
I'm honored! And I'm glad you commented, as I didn't realize till now I was only subbed to you on my music channel, and not on this one. So right back atcha!😁🙏☦️
@Simonet1309
5 ай бұрын
What is so irrational about protestant belief and sola scriptura, is that it rejects the very church which wrote and compiled their Bible. They condemn the very faith of the people on which they attempt to base their faith! I thank God daily that He led me out of the heresy of protestantism and into the true Church and the fullness of the Christian faith thirty years ago. ☦️☦️☦️ God bless you brother Paul.
@sifu9683
9 ай бұрын
Awesome! I luv Jeff's arguments against abortion, and have followed many years, but is unfortunate he is not Orthodox. Keep him in your prayers!!!
@argvas373
7 ай бұрын
Nice icons! Do you have saint george?
@bottomoftherabbithole
7 ай бұрын
Glory to God! Yes, he is on the right beneath St. John the Forerunner ☺️
@areyoutheregoditsmedave
9 ай бұрын
i like jeff durbin too. his addiction outreach and anti abortion work is truly something to admire.
@AVoiceCryingInTheWildern-vt6ed
9 ай бұрын
No, it is not. It is all 100% unbiblical nonsense. JD and his apostate church are not Christians.
@ministeriosemmanuel638
9 ай бұрын
I would love to have both of you meet and discuss these things!
@camerond424
9 ай бұрын
Dude this is very well done! Glad I found you! God bless
@eddardgreybeard
9 ай бұрын
As you stated, transubstantiation is simply a dogma attempting to explain in autistic detail what happens during the liturgy of the Eucharist. It affirms the real presence, which is something (as you stated) all pre-reformation Christianity absolutely taught as integral to the faith and the Christian experience. I have a lot of respect for Jeff Durbin also, and certainly wouldn't attribute to malice what might honestly could be attributed to simple ignorance (or his close friendship with rabid Anti-Catholic James White), but transubstantiation, consubstantiation, etc. they all reach for the same thing. It's the real presence, the literal body and blood of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
@acekoala457
9 ай бұрын
James White is more like a mentor to Jeff. I think James was getting him ready to take over his ministry but he eclipsed him.
@jeremyfirth
9 ай бұрын
I don't know who said it originally, but I love the quote: "Roman Catholics believe the Eucharist is real. Protestants believe it is symbolic. Orthodox believe it's real because it's symbolic."
@mjramirez6008
9 ай бұрын
there are proven Eucharisic miracles so not symbolic, no, no. Body, blood, soul, and divinity of our Lord.
@jeremyfirth
9 ай бұрын
@@mjramirez6008 I think that phrase is using "symbolic" in the original Greek sense, where "two things come together", as in when two rivers combine to become one river. The bread and wine are transformed in the Body and Blood of Christ, but they still retain their original nature. Much like a saint who has begun to experience theosis.
@shaunsteele6926
9 ай бұрын
Protestantism is simply the attempt to find Christ outside of the church... which isn't impossible, it's just much more difficult. Like trying to paddle to Hawaii in a kayak rather than on a ship.
@n.d.wilson2975
9 ай бұрын
I'm one of those weird people who enjoy hearing what 'the other side' has to say about things, which is why I appreciate videos like this. "Responding/answering so-and-so as a such-and-such" can be a super helpful format for those who genuinely want to understand opposing view points. I'm a seminary-trained evangelical Protestant who has read most/all the Ante-Nicene Fathers and.. I'm still Protestant. So, for anyone who's curious, we do exist :) It is lamentable, however, how incredibly ignorant so many evangelicals are of church history. I really appreciate Jeff. While he can paint with too broad a brush, I'm not sure it's fair to criticize him for not being sufficiently precise concerning Orthodox/early theological formations given that the focus of his argument lay elsewhere. Even so, I appreciate the content - keep up the good work!
@johnsherfey3675
9 ай бұрын
Mm the bias of like every comment with a heart, but this one 😂.
@bottomoftherabbithole
9 ай бұрын
@johnsherfey3675 haha I wanted to respond to the comment so I was holding off but he can get a heart reacc AND SO CAN YOU😂
@bottomoftherabbithole
9 ай бұрын
I appreciate you sharing your perspective, my friend. I'm glad you enjoyed and found it worthy of your time! Respectfully, you may be well read, but that doesn't mean you have a coherent paradigm. There is absolutely no way to reconcile evangelical ecclesiology with the early Church's ecclesiology or with authentic Christian epistemology. It's a kill shot to the whole theological system. I definitely would love for you to watch my video on Protestant epistemology for more on that. As for Jeff, his lack of familiarity with the early church/Orthodox teaching (or willful ignorance, I can't say which) is absolutely critical for him to honestly and accurately polemicize Roman Catholicism. So he really opened himself up to this critique by biting off way more than he could chew. Not only did he end up undermining his own apologetic against RCism, but he also ended up exposing the futility of his position in the face of church history in the process
@n.d.wilson2975
9 ай бұрын
Thanks, @@bottomoftherabbithole - I wasn't quite prepared to make the argument "Protestantism is a coherent paradigm" (although I think it is), only that it's possible to be familiar with the Apostolic Fathers AND still be a confessing Protestant. It was a bit tongue-in-cheek, but if one were to have only read the comments, one might not believe it were possible. Thanks for the recommendation re: Protestant epistemology. I watched about 75% of it, but didn't find it particularly compelling. Largely because the kind of Protestantism you describe is not one I'm familiar with, nor is it espoused by any confessional Protestant I know. If Protestantism's recognition of the NT cannon were based solely on the authority of divinely sanctioned group of church leaders, it would be on shaky epistemic ground indeed!
@bottomoftherabbithole
9 ай бұрын
@@n.d.wilson2975 outside of the Church deciding the NT canon there is no normative binding authority with regard to what books constitute it. Beyond that, the "y" in the equation from that video is the irrefutable point and fatal flaw, even if one wants to grant Protestants the intelligibility of the canon. There's no way out
@robertotapia8086
9 ай бұрын
@Bottom of the rabbit hole @ Reader Paul great work my brother thanks for taking the time to teach us. Your Catholic brother Robert from Puerto Rico 🇵🇷
@siriusley13
9 ай бұрын
I have watched Mr. Durban and I would also love to see him converse with you and explore Orthodoxy. I have respect for him also.
@MM-jh4cp
9 ай бұрын
We will pray for the gentleman who has disregarded all the church father’s writings, sacrifices, deaths, and teaching based off of the Christ/apostolic foundation in truth and worship. It’s never that easy and heaven is a daily minute by minute battle. Amen
@steelfalconx2000
9 ай бұрын
When he says "all you need to do is to believe", he doesn't realize he's invalidating the need for protestantism altogether. Catholics believe, why not be Catholic then? He's not refuting anything in this video because he can't. He's not a church authority. All he's saying is "we are A, they are B". Well, is that good, or bad? Is that objectively correct? Is it wrong and why? When he talks about transubstantiation he states he doesn't want to consume human flesh, but he doesn't believe it's human flesh anyway so there's no problem... Basically everything about protestantism is just "Catholic - X" but it doesn't add anything. Orthodoxy has some very different points of view and they matter not just historically but also because it affects your salvation and the giving of yourself to God.
@jlynn5680
9 ай бұрын
I love your videos and discussions. I wish that you would do this more often. Very informative, heartfelt, and interesting. ❤
@prayunceasingly2029
9 ай бұрын
I was raised in an anabaptist, Arian Christian type of sect. They think they're the continuation of the 1st century church. But they hold all sacraments as symbols and think their ministers are the same authority as the apostles. I became a trinitarian protestant, and became a calvinist a bit later on, but couldn't stay a calvinist. I have attended orthodox churches but its not easy for multiple reasons. Its so foreign, that even roman catholicism seems more familiar to me. Which i never thought i would say. But i honesty like the orthodox church better as well because Roman catholicism seems to be in a bad condition these days because the pope is a really bad communicator, and does really questionable things. Thanks for making this video
@freedom8383
4 ай бұрын
Were you involved with the Church of God (Restoration)?
@prayunceasingly2029
4 ай бұрын
@freedom8383 it is called the two by twos, but the actual members call it "the truth", and calls their members "the friends". Started by William Irvine around the year 1900.
@valerieprice1745
9 ай бұрын
I don't know how anyone could really believe the Eucharist developed over time. He leaves out the blood, like Roman Catholics have left out the blood. I have to think it's a deliberate effort to deprive Christians of some miraculous effects by leaving out the blood, coming from some unseen money men behind the scenes, because it crosses denominations. Jesus was really clear at the last supper. There's no ambiguity. And half the Eucharist is not the Eucharist. "For the life of the flesh is in the blood."
@joshuadonahue5871
9 ай бұрын
Do they only take the bread and not the wine at apologia church?
@valerieprice1745
9 ай бұрын
@@joshuadonahue5871 I attend an Orthodox Church, so I don't know, but it certainly sounds like they don't take Communion at Apologia. The Roman Catholic Church has stopped including wine in the Eucharist, which is troubling. Maybe they can't afford wine at the Roman Catholic Church anymore.
@joshuadonahue5871
9 ай бұрын
@@valerieprice1745 I know the Roman church changed the practice centuries ago, but I thought that that was one of the sticking points of the Reformation. I'd be surprised to learn that communion of all practices remained unreformed, as it were.
@wylian84
9 ай бұрын
Protestants take wine/grape juice at communion
@miracles_metanoia
9 ай бұрын
Eastern and western rites use wine at every mass. Sometimes only bread is distributed, but the altar has both species.
@eveneo5897
9 ай бұрын
God bless you and your family
@kevinjanghj
4 ай бұрын
When I was in a Bible Presbyterian church class for catechumens decades ago, an elder answered my question about the definition of a sacrament in this way. "A sacrament cannot save you. The Catholics (he also meant Orthodox too) hijacked that term Luther, a Reformer, was also wrong about the Real Presence." I wasn't convinced at all. If Catholics and Orthodox preceded Protestants, wouldn't Protestants be the real theological hijackers?
@petertherock7340
9 ай бұрын
As a Catholic who shares the faith of the ancient Church along with the Orthodox, I find Jeff Durbin’s actual understanding of the history of the Eucharist to be gravely deficient. Of course, he has never studied the faith in either a Catholic or Orthodox institution. In the end Jeff Durbin is a protege of James White. Eastern and Western Christendom agree on many aspects of the Eucharist, the Sacraments, and the Liturgy. We both appear to agree that Martin Luther and the Protestants abandoned the Faith of the early Church in a substantive way. 😊😊😊😊😊😊😊. John 6: 53-55. Call it Transubstantiation or Transmutation. It is the same Eucharistic Miracle. 👍. From the Catholic perspective, transubstantiation is not a novel doctrinal development of the 13th and 14th centuries. It is an explanation of what the early Church always believed. The Orthodox are more resistant to precise theological language concerning the Sacrament of the Eucharist. If one actually studies the Church Fathers, they will end up being Catholic or Orthodox… but never Protestant. 😊
@crispyjitsu
4 ай бұрын
I like Jeff’s work towards Mormons. I watched a lot of his stuff but I’ve been led to holy orthodoxy.
@littlefishbigmountain
9 ай бұрын
This is going to be a bit vulnerable of an admission, but when I was operating under the presupposition of Sola Scriptura I became very compelled by arguments both against Trinitarianism and in favor of Binitarianism. There’s still some unresolved question marks from it if I’m being honest, but whenever I actually started looking into finding a Binitarian congregation I realized that they were extremely rare, and often they came hand-in-hand with other beliefs such as we must keep the Law of Moses, and they had a very cult-like mindset that all other Christians were heretics. To be clear, the resources I was compelled by made no such claims. I didn’t find this out until I started trying to find actual congregations, although I did see someone ask a question about this in the comments and his suggestion was where I started looking when I realized all this. Basically the Holy Spirit put Proverbs 3:5-6 on my heart. I realized that either almost all Christians are wrong about the Trinity even today and throughout the entirety of church history as well and this Judaizing and ostracizing remnant had the true view of God, or else it didn’t matter how compelling I found these Scriptural arguments to be because there must be something more here that I wasn’t seeing. That came at the end of a long process of studying all these denominations and whatnot, Calvinism this and Dispensationalism that etc. etc., and that’s when it really started to dawn on me how deeply flawed Sola Scriptura really is. An image popped into my head of Protestantism as a crystal, it looked like some type of quartz, but whenever it got even a featherlight touch it just fragmented more and more, practically infinitely divisible. Because of all of this, I love when you pointed out that every heretic in history has used the Bible to support their error! It’s also become extremely apparent to me the irony of Protestants accusing Orthodox and even Catholics of “leaning on their own understanding”.
@noenduringcity
9 ай бұрын
That's one of the points I make about Sola Scriptura: If you really follow Sola Scriptura you'll have a very hard time "proving" Trinitarianism using just the Bible. If someone had to reconstruct Christianity only using the Bible, I seriously doubt they would be Trinitarian and would probably come up with a bunch of other heresies as well. Even the most strictly Sola Scriptura Protestant owes a huge debt to the true Church for so many doctrines. Ultimately, you have to go beyond the Bible to even have the Bible to begin with.
@aaronwolf4211
9 ай бұрын
It's great you realized this and got onto the right path. I've noticed that the unitarian track is quickly growing in Protestantism. 20 years ago it would have been totally bizarre to find someone denying the Trinity yet still claiming to be a Christian. But it's all thanks to Sola Scriptura. If you don't have the right hermeneutic, you can make the Bible say whatever you want it to say. It's madness. May God continue to bless you on your journey.
@noenduringcity
9 ай бұрын
@@aaronwolf4211 By God's Providence and Grace, I became Orthodox in 2011. Glory to God!
@aaronwolf4211
9 ай бұрын
@@noenduringcity Glory forever!
@littlefishbigmountain
9 ай бұрын
@@noenduringcity Exactly this!! Even when I was a Protestant, I used to use that argument against Calvinism, that not one in 10,000 would come up with that theology if you just gave them a Bible. However, this really takes it even further to its logical conclusion. Good thing the gates of hell will never prevail against His church! May the Spirit of Truth lead us into all truth in love ☦️❤️
@ducky1016
9 ай бұрын
You seem so kind, thanks for the video
@HowToBeChristian
9 ай бұрын
Just double checking: So you are of the Eastern Orthodox Church that Jeff was referencing in his video, correct?
@deadalivemaniac
9 ай бұрын
Didn’t think I’d see you here! He is. Love your content, as another Eastern Orthodox follower.
@bottomoftherabbithole
9 ай бұрын
hello my friend! this is kind of hilarious because years ago and long before I launched this channel, I was thoroughly enjoying your videos responding to the likes of James White and others. Never thought we'd be interacting personally! You do great work against Protestantism, really thorough and gracious; I respect it! To answer your question: Yes, I am an Orthodox Christian
@HowToBeChristian
9 ай бұрын
@@deadalivemaniacDoing research for our video on Durbin. First time seeing Reader Paul’s channel, but I like his style!
@HowToBeChristian
9 ай бұрын
@@bottomoftherabbitholeAwesome! Nice to find your video on here. I did enjoy your reasoning for not continuing on in responding to Jeff any further in the end. Is “Eastern Orthodox” a title you would use for yourself, or just “Orthodox Christian”? I was wondering if it was similar to how people like Jeff just say “Rome” instead of “Catholic Christian”.
@HowToBeChristian
9 ай бұрын
At 12:43 you talk about “transmutation”. Is their an Orthodox Catechism where I can read more about the difference? Also, would you say “transubstantiation” is wrong, or just not something that needs to be believed at this moment? From the video, it sounded like it was just not a teaching you thought needed to be specified, but I was curious if you thought it could possibly be true still.
@oneyzuniga6482
9 ай бұрын
as a RC, I greatly appreciate your magisterium. It is a shame we / both have departed from the first millennia, we should be working harder for a reconciliation.
@gregcoogan8270
9 ай бұрын
No just Rome, and it is a shame, but the doors of the Church is open 24/7, come back in!
@czuw2967
9 ай бұрын
Rome has innovated too much in the last 1,000 years for there to ever be a legitimate reconciliation. The only way is to renounce the heresies and become Orthodox.
@benkai343434
9 ай бұрын
I just wanted to comment on your question re the opening intro used by Apologia Studios, there's one youtube channel that, while not having the same intro, consistently has quality videos being put out, this being @harmonyharmonyharmony. Not sure if other people have brought this channel up, but he's made some extremely good content.
@matveyignatyev
9 ай бұрын
Can you please do a video on flat earth? I am interested in your thoughts and research on it.. I am curious about this topic..
@sodakhilljack7147
9 ай бұрын
Hey so maybe I'm in the right place, please explain the orthodox view on salvation. All I know is what the Bible says, you must be saved by grace through faith. Church cannot save you, only faith in jesus. So I'm not defending Protestants I can't call myself one anymore, but help me understand what orthodoxy teaches. How does the church save you? Doesn't that contradict the bible? Be gentle I'm learning and I mean no disrespect.
@bottomoftherabbithole
9 ай бұрын
Welcome, friend. Salvation is "theosis" (Greek word for deification)... progressive union with God; a real ontological change in our being. This is not to blur the eternal Creator/Creature distinction. We do not become absorbed into the Holy Trinity! We don't become God (capital "G"). God's Essence is unknowable and unapproachable, and completely transcendent. However, we are united to God in His Uncreated Energies, which illumine and transform us--primarily through (ironically) the Mystery of Mysteries, the Holy Eucharist....which is literal communion with God Himself. “The Son of God became man that we might become god…. [It is] becoming by grace what God is by nature.” + St. Athanasius the Great “The saints become that which can never belong to the power of nature alone, since nature possesses no faculty capable of perceiving what surpasses it.” + St. Maximus the Confessor kzitem.info/news/bejne/s5uey3WZp4SBoIo
@RonaldSeese-sx4ow
9 ай бұрын
I totally understand. As a Protestant you’re used to a 30 second ‘elevator speech’ that sums up the whole faith and atonement points. I had the very same question and it was hard to pin down the kind of easy answer I wanted. We do not view salvation as merely a one time event where you say a prayer and you can mark down in your Bible the day you got saved… Orthodox theology fully acknowledges that salvation begins with God's grace and is received through faith. This aligns with the biblical message that we are saved by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8-9). Grace is seen as the unmerited favor and love of God towards humanity, and faith is the response to this divine initiative. Faith in Jesus Christ is essential and foundational in Orthodox belief. The Orthodox Church is often described as a "hospital for souls." The Church provides the means through which believers can receive healing and grow in their relationship with God. The Church is not seen as a replacement for personal faith in Jesus, but as the context in which faith is nurtured and expressed. “Synergy" (cooperation) is between God's grace and human free will. While salvation is initiated and sustained by God's grace, human beings are called to actively respond to and cooperate with this grace. This involves a life of prayer, worship, good works, and spiritual discipline. Orthodoxy teaches that salvation is by God's grace received through faith in Jesus Christ. The Church provides the context and the means (through the sacraments) for this grace to be received and lived out. Salvation is seen as a synergistic process involving both divine grace and human response, encompassing the entire life of the believer in a journey towards theosis (think of theosis as sanctification as you know it but also with the context of glorification as in Romans 8:30) This view does not negate the necessity of personal faith but places it within the communal, sacramental, and historical context of the Church.
@sodakhilljack7147
9 ай бұрын
@@RonaldSeese-sx4owmay God bless you brother that is the best answer I have heard anywhere and it makes perfect sense to me. Thank you so much for your time and help. I have asked this question in a lot of places but never gotten an answer that explained it. This was what I needed to hear. I can't tell you what a blessing this is.
@sodakhilljack7147
9 ай бұрын
@@bottomoftherabbithole thanks so much for your answer, I watched a couple of your videos, some of it used terms I am just not familiar with or understand. There is a lot more to orthodoxy than Sunday morning, Sunday night and sometimes Wednesday and as long as you're saved you're good theology. Thank you for being patient enough to answer me, I greatly appreciate your help on my journey. God bless you brother
@sodakhilljack7147
9 ай бұрын
@@RonaldSeese-sx4ow a better way to put it is an answer that I understood, some of the terminology is new to me and I don't fully understand some of it. That's bad on me not the folks who have tried to explain it. We don't have an orthodox church locally I will have to drive about 45 min to get to one so it's not easy to get answers!
@nicodemuseam
9 ай бұрын
Well done, brother. For the Heterodox watching, I hope you receieve with peace of mind the sound doctrine laid before you, and depart henceforth from Heterodoxy into Orthodoxy, as many before you have done and will continue to do. It is no small matter, the wisdom of God, and we should desire to in no way to depart from the Ancient Faith. May God have mercy upon us and save us, for He is good and loveth mankind.
@raywest7222
9 ай бұрын
Sounds like he needs to read john 6 Edit: ALL OF IT!
@BaronEvola123
9 ай бұрын
The whole problem with Protestantism is that it must be reductionist, rather than accept the fullness of the church. They really don't have a choice being selective in what they quote.
@Spirit1443
9 ай бұрын
Thank you for your help understanding that believing in Jesus, as all we need to do, would mean to believe in every word, command, teaching, parable he teaches us, entailing "working out our salvation with fear and trembling", as he spoke through Paul, and his holy spirit spoke through his brother James to the churches that faith alone is dead faith. Our faith in Jesus alone means we do the works he tells his disciples to do.
@SeekTheCross
9 ай бұрын
Romans 4:5-8 New King James Version David Celebrates the Same Truth But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works: “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered; Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”
@Spirit1443
9 ай бұрын
@@SeekTheCross I studied an enormous amount of Protestant influenced Christianity through out my born again life and since becoming in contact with a Greek Orthodox monastery monk u have been digging into the Orthodox teachings deeper and have come to a realization that Orthodox seems to be the truest to scriptural teachings and early church apostolic traditions. Im in the verge of going to an Orthodox academy to jump all in towards a conversion
@DoaPenyembuhan
8 ай бұрын
I really love prayer corner setting. ❤️❤️❤️
@user-db1iv5bu8o
6 ай бұрын
Excellant... gracious...very loving...bold..clear ..teaching of Truth. I appreciated jeff in my early years of searching...his saving of babies ministry...and his ministry with JW's and mormons. Then to find out his ministry was in my town and then his services were very close to me...i was so excited. I had nothing i believed in as The Truth...with him..i was suspicious of his smooth talking. I too wonder if he knows what and how he teaches...and methods he uses( like it is his position and job to sell) I loved your entire message and the way it was presented...in every way. I am so very grateful i walked away from there because something just wasnt right...all the while condemning myself for being so critical of all the churches i was investigating
@FatherSonSpirit1
9 ай бұрын
I kept asking God for the truth and I am now reading “the history of the church” by Eusebius.WHY ISN’T our pastors telling us and guiding us to these early church followers? There’s nothing wrong with CS Lewis or these modern writers, but I think it’s due to the Seminary schools. That has unwittingly become our authority but Protestants have issue with the authority of the very FIRST people who did it! Now the authorities are universities seminary and divinity colleges, the ancient church is “outdated” - that is what the protestant pastors preach. I think the modern church grieves the Holy Spirit. Now I know why I felt more saddened after going to church.
@James_Wisniewski
22 күн бұрын
Jeff Durbin is kind of doing what Mormons do when he uses the term "Real Presence." He's saying the same words as people who came before him, but by them, he means something fundamentally different from what anyone who came before him meant by them.
@steadfastgodcast
9 ай бұрын
This was another fantastic video! Great explanations on each point. Lord bless you brother ☦️
@Boethium
9 ай бұрын
Really appreciate your video. A lot of what you’re saying sounds extremely familiar, especially the beautiful simplicity, and compelling nature of Protestant argumentation. I think you hit the nail on the head: if you read the church fathers, you will not come away Protestant, especially not a Reformed Baptist. I have been attending an orthodox church for the the last few months, and the priest recently asked me if I wanted to be a catechumen, so that’s pretty exciting. May God bless you and your channel, brother. You’ve got yourself a new subscriber, looking forward to more videos.
@aaronmyers4665
6 ай бұрын
I remember seeing recently, James White wearing an Orthodox cross
@paulhale3031
9 ай бұрын
Wow, you said all that from the few words that we heard from Jeff. Amazing
@TruSciencePro
9 ай бұрын
Can someone point me to some good books on this subject? Many thanks and blessings.
@bottomoftherabbithole
9 ай бұрын
"Rock and Sand" by Father Josiah Trenham!
@Lok0Yoko
9 ай бұрын
Then Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. - John 6:53 "Wherefore, He says, that whoever shall eat of His bread shall live for ever; as it is manifest that those who partake of His body and receive the Eucharist by the right of communion are living, so, on the other hand, we must fear and pray lest any one who, being withheld from communion, is separate from Christ's body should remain at a distance from salvation; as He Himself threatens, and says, "Unless ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink His blood, ye shall have no life in you.". Moreover, He says in the same place: "Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink His blood, ye shall have no life in you.". Also in the same place: "Unless ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink His blood, ye shall not have life in you."" - St Cyprian of Carthage
@Lok0Yoko
9 ай бұрын
Thanks Reader Paul! I'm going to share this with my protestant family! :)
@exposingpowerfullieslivest5082
9 ай бұрын
Amazing! Great video
@bottomoftherabbithole
9 ай бұрын
Glory to God! Always appreciate you tuning in and your support, my brother🙏❤☦️
@SaltShack
9 ай бұрын
“Quote Mine the Church Fathers”. That’s a brilliant way to put it, but that’s absolutely what’s necessary to be Protestant. Picking and choosing quotes and Scripture passages to justify, whatever is as you say extremely dangerous because every heresy ever uttered was accompanied by misapplied Scripture passages. Bringing in the Church fathers only complicates things as the Church fathers don’t always agree. The beloved St. John Chrysostom didn’t agree with himself. His ideas on asceticism vs marriage turned 180 degrees from his early writings to his later writings. Without the fundamental organizational principle of the Church, consensus, that Scripture defines as pleasing to the Holy Spirit and Practiced by the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostle Church ever since is precisely the fingerprints of the Holy Spirits continued inspiration on the Body of Christ without which you are open to heresy from every source. Christ didn’t offer bread saying this is like my Body and this wine represents my Blood. In the presence of the Holy Spirit I’m praying to participate in the substance God said he was offering his Apostles. Sola Scriptura, without the Scriptura. It all boils down to the only thing that’s Sola is the sole opinion of Calvin, Luther, Billy Graham, Joel Osteen or ……fill in the blank and that in no way approaches the authority necessary to challenge the Church of the Apostles. Who knew it John Chapter 6 says it all. Our bibles can be so much slimmer now. No need for all that talk about Truth and heresy, commands, from John by the way, to be of one mind and Judgement, orders against schism, Bishops, Priests and Deacons all proved by the existence of the obedient Church.
@borealopelta7284
9 ай бұрын
Looking for some clarity on orthodox understanding about anyone outside of the church. Is there a chance that Protestants or Catholics can be saved outside the Orthodox Church or is it an absolute no to anyone outside the church?
@LadyMaria
9 ай бұрын
We don't know how frequent it is that God makes exception, we only know the path that Christ has given us in the Church. We do pray for everyone.
@orthodox_soul
9 ай бұрын
This is a pertinent question that I had myself (I think most of us converts cross this bridge sooner or later). Think of it like this. You have two scenarios: When Jonah went into the water, he had no prior knowledge that his life would be spared, or by what means God would spare him. When the waters came upon Moses, he already knew God would save him and by exactly what means. In the case of one individual, it had not been revealed, but in the case of the entire collective (any and all who boarded the Ark) it had been revealed. Basically, to consciously reject Holy Orthodoxy and choose not to be received into the Church is like an individual assuring themself they'll be like Jonah, even though the scenario God has prescribed as a general rule pertains to the collective like Moses. In other words, people tell themselves that they're like Jonah when even Jonah didn't know he would be a Jonah, if that makes sense. So, to put it as simply as possible: 1.) We maintain the teaching that there is no salvation outside the Church (the ark). And yet... 2) God will have mercy on whomever He pleases (like Jonah). Therefore, we can conclude that... 3) Those who die outside of the Orthodox Church *can* be saved *by being joined to the Church through some extraordinary means in death* (so it's *still* the same principle of being *IN* the Church/joined to the Body of Christ that is ultimately our salvation). So no, we don't automatically condemn everyone outside the Church to Hell--we don't claim to know who will be damned at all, as such final judgement belongs to God alone. But when it comes to people being saved who are outside of the Church, the things is (apart from baptism) we don't know what those "extraordinary" means of being joined to the Church are that God uses, or who those people will be, since it hasn't been revealed to us. So we always abide by the normative means that have been revealed which is Baptism and Chrismation.
@borealopelta7284
9 ай бұрын
@@orthodox_soul thank you
@tylerguenette4039
9 ай бұрын
What was the song at the beginning?
@shannon6708
9 ай бұрын
Jesus said it himself "This is my body which will be given up for you...Do this in remembrance of me" If Jesus said this. I believe him. Plus, all the eucharistic miracles that have taken place and continue to take place. The church and her sacraments are what separate the men from the boys if you will. Only saints in Orthodoxy and Catholicism. Just saying. We are still here and attest to the fact that the gates of hell will not prevail against Gods church. Thank you for this. I think you slayed him on this topic.
@gregcoogan8270
9 ай бұрын
Only in Orthodoxy. Rome is in schism from the Church and has changed/added to the Apostolic deposit of faith.
@ShannonWooster
9 ай бұрын
Still it is the sister church and you cant deny the miracles, with the eucharist, some saints incorruptibility and the power of the rosary and Mary's intercession is undeniable. Although, I wish purgatory wasn't real@@gregcoogan8270
@orthodox_soul
9 ай бұрын
Great video brother, another solid presentation. One can only hope and pray that this somehow manages to make it's way into "Mr. Durbin's" circles to a degree that he feels warrants a response--he's one of the Prot. pastors I pray for regularly. Much love and respect to him. One thing that occurred to me (with respect to the segment of the clip you didn't play, where he went into Scripture) after he basically stated that, to simply believe *is* to eat and drink of Him, was that Christ contrasted this perspective in another passage that associates the consumption of spiritual food with **action** rather than mere belief: After Jesus meets the Samaritan woman, the disciples come to Him and implore Him to eat something. He responds, "I have food which you know nothing about", and then reveals this food is to **do** the will of His Father. One might possibly try to make a distinction that, in one instance He's giving an instruction to us v.s. in the other He's referring to Himself; only the problem is that in both cases, the underlying principle is still the same, in that they both relate back to doing the will of the Father, regardless if the subject is the Apostles or Christ Himself. So, as you said in the video, if one truly believes, then it follows necessarily that we are called to certain actions as an integral part of that confession of faith, like being baptized and receiving the precious Body and Blood. You can't separate the believing from the doing.
@Val.Kyrie.
Сағат бұрын
Oh! That’s why his name is familiar, pro life.
@pavelcrestin1
9 ай бұрын
Hristos a înviat!
@BecomeAnOrthodoxChristian
9 ай бұрын
Adevarat a Inviat!
@kukumatz4502
9 ай бұрын
Your videos are brilliant Reader Paul. Much love from a fellow convert in Britain!
@theKingsJester88
9 ай бұрын
As a Lutheran looking into Orthodoxy.. i disagree with Durbin on many levels. Lutherans affirm Christ is truly present in the Eucharist. Have you engaged with Lutheran theology at all? Id like to hear a good response to them.
@bottomoftherabbithole
9 ай бұрын
The Orthodox Church has already responded to Luther and the Reformers via the Confession of Dositheus at the Council of Jerusalem in the 17th century. Decree 17 explicitly deals with the Eucharist and rejects the Lutheran position by name. Also, Lutheran ecclesiology is completely irreconcilable with the dogmatic ecclesiology of the first millenium Church, and actually precluded by it as even being possibly tenable. Decree 17 reads as follows: "We believe that the all-holy sacrament of the Holy Eucharist, which we have placed above as the fourth sacrament, is mysteriously commanded by the Lord on that night in which He gave Himself up for the life of the world. For, taking bread and blessing, He gave it to His disciples and Apostles, saying: 'Take, eat, this is My body.' And, taking the cup, giving praise, he said: 'Drink all of it: this is my blood, which is shed for you for the remission of sins.' We believe that our Lord Jesus Christ is present in this sacred service not symbolically, not figuratively ( τυπικός , εἰκονικός ), not by an excess of grace, as in other sacraments, not by one influx, as some Fathers spoke of baptism, and not through the penetration of bread ( κατ ´ Ἐναρτισμόν - per impanationem ), so that the Divinity of the Word enters into the bread offered for the Eucharist, essentially ( ὑποστατικός), as the followers of Luther rather unskillfully and unworthily explain; but truly and truly, so that after the consecration of bread and wine, the bread is changed, transubstantiated, transformed, transformed into the very true body of the Lord, which was born in Bethlehem from the Ever-Virgin, was baptized in the Jordan, suffered, was buried, rose again, ascended, sits at the right hand of God the Father, has to appear on the clouds of heaven; and the wine is transformed and transubstantiated into the very true blood of the Lord, which, during His suffering on the Cross, was shed for the life of the world. We also believe that after the consecration of bread and wine, it is no longer the bread and wine itself that remains, but the very body and blood of the Lord under the form and image of bread and wine. We also believe that this most pure body and blood of the Lord is dispensed and enters the mouths and wombs of those who partake, both the pious and the wicked. Only those who are pious and worthy receive remission of sins and eternal life, while those who are ungodly and unworthy receive condemnation and eternal torment. We also believe that the body and blood of the Lord, although they are divided and broken up, but this happens in the sacrament of communion only with types of bread and wine, in which they can be both visible and tangible, but in themselves they are completely whole and inseparable. This is why the Ecumenical Church says: 'The one who is shattered is divided and divided, but not divided, always eaten and dependent in no way, but those who partake (of course, worthily) it sanctifies.' We also believe that in every part, down to the smallest particle of the laid bread and wine, there is not some separate part of the body and blood of the Lord, but the body of Christ, always whole and in all parts one, and the Lord Jesus Christ is present in His essence, then is with soul and divinity, or perfect God and perfect man. Therefore, although at one and the same time there are many sacred rites in the universe, there are not many bodies of Christ, but one and the same Christ is truly and truly present, His one body and one blood in all the individual Churches of the faithful. And this is not because the body of the Lord, which is in heaven, descends on the altars, but because the showbread, prepared separately in all churches and, after consecration, is transformed and transubstantiated, is done the same thing with the body that is in heaven. For the Lord always has one body, not many in many places. Therefore, according to the general opinion, this sacrament is the most wonderful, comprehended by faith alone, and not by the speculations of human wisdom, which vanity and insane sophistication regarding Divine things is rejected by this holy and above-destined sacrifice for us. We also believe that this body and blood of the Lord in the sacrament of the Eucharist should be given special honor and divine worship; for what we owe to the worship of our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, the same body and blood of the Lord. We also believe that this sacrifice, both before use, immediately after consecration, and after use, stored in consecrated vessels for parting words to the dying, is the true body of the Lord, in no way different from His body, so that before use after consecration, and in itself use, and after it always remains the true body of the Lord. We also believe that the word 'transubstantiation' does not explain the way in which bread and wine are changed into the body and blood of the Lord; for this cannot be comprehended by anyone but God himself, and the efforts of those who wish to comprehend this can only be the result of madness and wickedness; but it is only shown that, after consecration, bread and wine are changed into the body and blood of the Lord not figuratively, not symbolically, not by an excess of grace, not by communication or influx of the one Divinity of the Only Begotten, and not by any accidental belonging of bread and wine is changed into an accidental belonging of the body and the blood of Christ by some change or mixture, but, as said above, truly, really and essentially, bread is the very true body of the Lord, and wine is the very blood of the Lord by which bread and wine are changed into the body and blood of the Lord; for this cannot be comprehended by anyone but God himself, and the efforts of those who wish to comprehend this can only end in madness and wickedness; but it is only shown that, after consecration, bread and wine are changed into the body and blood of the Lord not figuratively, not symbolically, not by an excess of grace, not by communication or influx of the one Divinity of the Only Begotten, and not by any accidental belonging of bread and wine is changed into an accidental belonging of the body and the blood of Christ by some change or mixture, but, as said above, truly, really and essentially, bread is the very true body of the Lord, and wine is the very blood of the Lord. We also believe that this sacrament of the Holy Eucharist is celebrated not by everyone, but only by one pious Priest who has received the Priesthood from a pious and lawful Bishop, as the Eastern Church teaches. Here is the abbreviated teaching of the Universal Church on the sacrament of the Eucharist; here is the true confession and ancient tradition, which those who wish to be saved and reject the new and filthy false wisdom of heretics should not change in any way; on the contrary, they are obliged to observe this lawful tradition intact and undamaged. For those who distort it, the Catholic Church of Christ rejects and curses."
@bottomoftherabbithole
9 ай бұрын
I'm glad you're closer than Durbin on this issue but you need to go all the way ☦️
@theKingsJester88
9 ай бұрын
@@bottomoftherabbithole OK, cool, thanks... is there a place In the first millennium fathers or writings that show same belief that is iterated above?
@VladVlad-dj2ux
9 ай бұрын
I just watched the part where you addressed Protestant faith only issue. Your answer was correct but lacked a Biblical response. Our friend Deacon Ezra Ham (St Elijah OKC) has provided the Orthodox Response: Numbers 21:8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live. They couldn't just stay in their tents and say they believe. They had to go and look at it. "Faith is done with the feet" John 3:14-15 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life.
@bottomoftherabbithole
9 ай бұрын
Oh there is certainly a great deal more that could have been said to explicate that further! This was not at all the purpose of this video, though. Plus there are many resources out there from Orthodox clergy who have dealt with this issue thoroughly and far more sufficiently than I ever could! I only mentioned that in this video due to the fact that some of these subjects and doctrines are inextricably intertwined in historical Christianity.
@antonioj.castaneda7377
9 ай бұрын
Awesome video and response, thank you for creating and posting! I cannot wait to watch with my wife and brothers! IC XC NIKA ☦️ ♥️
@vaporizejello
9 ай бұрын
Brother, the whole 'just believe' thing almost ruined my life. Its utterly heretical. James says 'even the demons believe'. I was protestant 40 years, and thank God I finally found the one true Church of Holy Orthodoxy. The difference has been night and day.
@TheRadChadDad
9 ай бұрын
Glory to Jesus Christ! ☦️☦️☦️ This was an excellent and articulate rebuttal. God bless.
@OrthodoxAlex
9 ай бұрын
Just finished reading the lives of Saint Nektarios and Saint Paisios. Any reccommendations on who to read next ?
@MrMysticmelody
9 ай бұрын
If I may humbly reply. The Garden of the Holy Spirit - Saint Iakovos of Evia is a wonderful book of an extraordinary Saint. Also, My Elder (Saint) Joseph the Hesychast is also highly recommended. God Bless.
@thefirmamentalist9922
9 ай бұрын
Less reading and more attending Orthodox Church services. ☦️
@aaronwolf4211
9 ай бұрын
Three of the most read and most spiritually profitable books on my shelves - Our Thoughts Determine Our Lives (Elder Thaddeus), The Little Russian Philokalia (St. Seraphim of Serov), and My Life in Christ (St. John of Krondstat).
@OrthodoxAlex
9 ай бұрын
@@aaronwolf4211 thank you !
@OrthodoxAlex
9 ай бұрын
@@MrMysticmelody thank you!
@iKentine
8 ай бұрын
Hey Paul, I've been meaning to ask you a question ever since I saw your testimony video. Are you ever going to do a video on cosmology/space stuff? I'll be honest - I was super confused and kinda thrown back when you started talking about it and have never even heard of some of the stuff you mentioned. I can't even remember what exactly you said or where it was in the video, something about geocentric earth with a fixed dome or... something? What does that stuff mean? Would you say that space is fake? Or going to the moon is fake? Or stuff like that? Like I said, this is totally new stuff I've never heard of before and, as a fan of being skeptical about mainstream narratives, I'm interested in what you have to say and why on these issues.
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