This episode is finally here! Here's a poll. Do you think that is the Stormfather or not in the prologue? strawpoll.com/polls/NPgxkB6ron2
@jyotitripathi559
2 жыл бұрын
I was totally convinced that it's an imposter but you guys made a compelling argument in this episode and now I'm not sure.
@modesmolano4295
2 жыл бұрын
Why not put subtitles in Spanish? you lose a very large community
@atticuswench1561
2 жыл бұрын
I was definitely thrown by the different tone than we are used to hearing from the Stormfather in the prologue, but I’m with you guys, I definitely think it’s still him. He’s just kind of course corrected from the whole experience with King Buttface and is using a different approach with Dalinar. So pumped to have this episode! You all give great perspectives!
@17thShard
2 жыл бұрын
@@modesmolano4295 Sorry, I missed this earlier. We don't even have the bandwidth to transcribe and put correct English subtitles, which alone would be a huge amount of resources for our long videos. We use the KZitem autogenerated ones which only generate in English. Transcribing and translating into other languages is even harder, as I'm sure you can imagine. The Spanish fans and cosmere.es are fantastic, of course! But it's really quite infeasible. -Eric
@KaladinVegapunk
Жыл бұрын
Idk, the theories that it's Ishar are still really compelling, hacking the connection, I'm one of the ten fools, etc But he seems way too lucid haha, Ishar was looney toons Tanavasts cognitive shadow, maybe Or just Stormfathers personality being different when he bonds dalinar, having decided to be a lot more cagey and stern the second time around
@solitaryrecluse7740
2 жыл бұрын
I found it very funny and ironic that all the readers in-joke that Dalinar and Jasnah thought Gavilar could read because of Szeth's writing turned out to be true and Gavilar actually could read.
@2thechase
2 жыл бұрын
I think the fact that the Navanni argument and the meeting with Eshonai not being included are further evidence of how much Gavilar sucks. It's his narrative of the night and they are simply not important to the story he's telling himself. Little did he know...
@17thShard
2 жыл бұрын
That's a very good way of looking at it. -Eric
@gavinsmith9871
2 жыл бұрын
I still kinda want Gavilar to see what Dalinar's become. I think he'd be hella jelly.
@sflytal
2 жыл бұрын
BUT we finally understand why Sadeas liked Gavilar so much
@woofergranade2044
2 жыл бұрын
Oh gosh. That is so awful and true. They both sucked horribly.
@KaladinVegapunk
Жыл бұрын
@@woofergranade2044 ehh, sadeas is still worse. He may be a manipulative asshole but Gavilar at least internally knows he's being awful to Navani, that small glimpse of empathy is more than we ever see from sadeas. But the way he treats her and Dalinar pissed me off so much haha..not to mention Jasnah I just still love that in RoW we assumed he knew they were heralds, was totally savvy and involved in all the big plots with Kelsier..but here we realize he was in WAY over his head, his only real accomplishment was the void light Still..Kelsier as a Seon in a trenchcoat made me so happy, reminded me of tricking the ire in secret history haha, so classic
@adoniscreed4031
Жыл бұрын
@@KaladinVegapunk By all indication, Sadeas was a pretty great husband 🤣 Unlike Gavilar
@KaladinVegapunk
Жыл бұрын
@@adoniscreed4031 that's a really fair point bud! Hahah they did seem to get along thick as thieves and worked together, point to sadeas there. Hard to say, sadeas was happy to torch the rift, gavilar apparently was fine with triggering a desolation just to be immortal, which i would say is a dick move The missing piece here though is if Stormfaker really is Ishar hacking his connection, or the real Stormfather
@saraholivares4747
2 жыл бұрын
At 37:30 you guys compare Vin and Dalinar, and I have a thing I don’t know if anyone has ever pointed out. Investiture behaves similarly around both of them. In HoA, the mists are “reaching” for Vin like fingers or hands, and in Oathbringer the Lightweaving maps are swirling around Dalinar and Navani notices them behaving oddly, “reaching” toward him “like the hands of petitioners.” It’s a little thing, but so similar it seems intentional. The thing I know for sure about Vin is that she was chosen by a Shard to be a Shard, and I think that’s why it happens to Dalinar too.
@ShaunshankRedemption
2 жыл бұрын
Does anything similar ever happen to taravangian? I know Brandon decided later on that one but it may be in RoW
@saraholivares4747
2 жыл бұрын
@@ShaunshankRedemption Not as far as I know, but the difference there would be that he wasn’t chosen, he sort of stole the Shard. We’re told in HoA that Preservation chose Vin since she was born to one day take the power. And then Honor/Tanavast set the Stormfather to chose someone to receive the visions, to prepare them for _something_ , and he’s chosen Dalinar.
@ShaunshankRedemption
2 жыл бұрын
@@saraholivares4747 but that doesn't really make sense, Vin was a catalyst but she wasn't the hero
@aravpradosh1244
2 жыл бұрын
@@ShaunshankRedemption it does make sense , preservation supposedly planned everything and chose vin to become a catalyst as you put it
@saraholivares4747
2 жыл бұрын
@@aravpradosh1244 This, exactly. If you read the chapter epigraphs in Hero of Ages, written by Sazed, he explains that Vin was chosen at birth by Preservation for a long-term plan that involved her at least ascending.
@Sheija
2 жыл бұрын
The Chana Davar thoery also finally excplains why her mother wanted to kill her, presumably she was also buying into Ishar's whole kill budding Radiants idea. Also, from a writerly perspective, bringing up Chana's red hair in the very chapter a Herald dies seems like the final nail in the coffin for me (just based on Brando's lecture series and how he does foreshadowing etc). It's a completely random and irrelevant tangent otherwise (or a serious red hairring ;).
@GreekSuperman
Жыл бұрын
Upvoted purely for the pun
@josephhicks87
2 жыл бұрын
When Hoid meets Shallan in a flashback (towards the end of chapter 45 Middlefest) he's taken aback and drops his cup and has to compose himself. So maybe he sees Chana in her? Just a theory.
@17thShard
2 жыл бұрын
I like it! Though could also be that he's shocked spren bonds are (kind of) back. -Eric
@josephhicks87
2 жыл бұрын
@@17thShard that's definitely true. I was in the middle of a reread and so it stood out more after the SA5 prologue.
@pretty5793
2 жыл бұрын
That is literally the first thing that came to my mind when I heard the prologue. It really bothered me that he was shocked but his later interactions don’t satisfy my understanding of why he is so shocked!
In regards to Shallan somehow not recognizing her mother's portrait (assuming she is a herald) shallan has been repeatedly shown to avoid, disassociate, and repress things about her past even when it's in her face like with her shardblade and spren(s?). I don't think it's unreasonable that she would avoid making the connection of the portrait or avoiding seeing them at all. Maybe this should have been shown in the text but I do not find it inconsistent with Shallan's character.
@HOSTILEWORKPLACE
2 жыл бұрын
I like this theory and if you interpret the bright, blinding light of her "mother's soul" as her avoiding this. On my current reread I'm noticing every small little disassociation she has and it totally works.
@rebeccaroy3751
Жыл бұрын
I agree.
@jacktheiling9054
2 жыл бұрын
If the Chana Davar theory ends up not being confirmed, that will be the biggest red *Hair*ing......
@hubrisnxs2013
2 жыл бұрын
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh
@KaladinVegapunk
Жыл бұрын
There's no way it's not confirmed hahah... We know Taln never broke, and we know that basically all the Heralds were there, in a library or in karbranth Aaand Shallan killed her mom in the same month as the assassination At this point if it ISNT her it would be actively misleading the readers haha and that's not sandos style
@adoniscreed4031
Жыл бұрын
It is so weird that I have read all of these books and have absolutely zero clue about where this theory even came from... I've seen absolutely 0 hints about this in the story 🤣
@JediBlueDog
Жыл бұрын
@@adoniscreed4031From what I can gather, Chana the Herald is distinctly stated in the book 5 prologue to have red hair(it’s a random comment that Gavilar makes for no reason other than the reader really), and Shallan also has red hair. Also Shallan killed her mother in the same year as the feast(1167) and in the book 5 prologue the stormfather says that he just felt a herald die. We also know that Taln is confirmed to have never succumbed to the torture so the theory is that after Chana died to Shallan, she got sent back to Braize and fell to the torture causing the Desolation. Hope this makes sense!
@rebeccaroy3751
Жыл бұрын
Hahaha! Shallan would be proud of this pun.
@VoidLantadd
2 жыл бұрын
On Shallan having or not having seen the Herald portraits which would reveal Chanah as her mother: I think Shallan already knows deep down that her mother is Chanah and is actively repressing it. Shallan would be entirely capable of looking straight at that portrait and pulling the old "doesn't look like anything to me."
@trielt1
2 жыл бұрын
Regarding Dalinar nearly 'killing' the Stormfather, I think it's because he was close to breaking an oath. When he properly bonded the Stormfather, he was told "I WILL NOT BE A SIMPLE SWORD TO YOU. I WILL NOT COME AS YOU CALL, [...] YOU WILL BE A RADIANT WITH NO SHARDS". By accepting those terms, I believe Dalinar was then bound by oath to never summon the Stormfather as a Blade, and trying to do so risked violating his Radiant oaths.
@Bronimin
Жыл бұрын
I personally think he made something like an honourblade
@legendsofabhaile
2 жыл бұрын
GOSH you make like 130 bucks off of patreon a month, you can't afford to make your HUGE rotating cast of stars full time jobs out of shardcast? Love you guys, glad to see you back Jess!!
@17thShard
2 жыл бұрын
Hah! Thanks for the kind words! Really though, our Patreon is doing really well for our subscriber count. -Eric
@legendsofabhaile
2 жыл бұрын
@@17thShard glad to hear it man, been a patron for a minute!
@swyts
2 жыл бұрын
FINALLY!!!!!! I hadn't been listening since ROW follow-ups, but I think I've filled in all of the gaps since then, just waiting on this one since the prologue release. Preemptive like.
@17thShard
2 жыл бұрын
Oh, and we still have way more RoW topics to do. We were going to record them in March, but then, uh, yeah. -Eric
@hubrisnxs2013
2 жыл бұрын
Dude! Me too! I tried to bribe them on Patreon to release it sooner lol. Preemptive thank you Shardcast!
@Haxerous
2 жыл бұрын
I think Gavilar just massively misunderstood the visions (and the Stormfather) and believed he was to become a Herald. Plus he doesn't seem to know much about the Radiants to figure out what is going on. He doesn't know what happened to the heralds, and the Stormfather just played along to see where this went. With Dalinar it didn't matter cause the desolation was already here and he might as well give him the truth.
@david7996
2 жыл бұрын
Entirely possible. My issue is that sometimes in the prologue this really just doesnt feel like the stormfather. Other times he/it totally does, which confuses me a bit
@rebeccaroy3751
Жыл бұрын
I love that Eric calls Thaidakar "Freakin' Thaidakar" multiple times. I feel like Kelsier would really appreciate that.
@2thechase
2 жыл бұрын
Okay, so Eric might not like this, but what if it's not Ba Ado Mishram that Thaidakar wants, but the gem that she is contained in? A gem of such size and perfection that it can hold a heavily invested cognitive entity. I see two possible reasons for this: Selfish Reason - to safely move himself off of Scadrial Altruistic Reason - to trap whatever entity is invading Scadrial (that Harmony reveals in Bands of Mourning)
@17thShard
2 жыл бұрын
Okay see that sounds pretty cool to me, honestly. -Eric
@cbpd89
2 жыл бұрын
I totally love this theory!
@leiluna8100
2 жыл бұрын
With the way Mishram is described as being 'The one who could rival him' I feel like the Heralds were maybe encouraging/ helping her take over from Odium or try to depose him even, then when things went sideways they betrayed her by instructing the radiants on how to capture her. Great episode, love hearing all your thoughts as always!
@thepocketboy
2 жыл бұрын
Shallans last Truth will be admitting she caused the desolation
@tadious9415
2 жыл бұрын
One thing with Honorspren I think they can lie too. The leader of them, Sekeir said that Kalak was recused from high judge because he'd suffered one of his fits or something untrue. So I don't think they'd do it often, but I think they can and would lie in the right circumstances.
@solitaryrecluse7740
2 жыл бұрын
I agree, sometimes the honorable thing to do is to lie. It's more likely that highspren are the most opposed to lies.
@christopherneedham9584
2 жыл бұрын
@@solitaryrecluse7740 It is literally never honorable to lie. The reason that the honor spren are able to lie is because they define what they mean by honor.
@solitaryrecluse7740
2 жыл бұрын
@@christopherneedham9584 I don't know... that sounds like the kind of sentence that leads to master's thesis in sociology. Call me a moral relativist, but I don't like the use of the word "never" in any judgement. Still going to upvote you though since you made me think for a while. 🤔
@ilregiallo4151
2 жыл бұрын
I actually think that was a form of self-deception, something like "Oh If Kalak doesn't agree with me, he must be delusional again!"
@tadious9415
2 жыл бұрын
@@ilregiallo4151 Idk that seems a bit generous to the honorspren. They also took Adolin agreeing to let them try to prove that he was personally responsible for the Recreance, and they in turn ignored that and put him on trial for all the crimes of humanity.
@kenthomas8168
2 жыл бұрын
To Kate's point about the storm father feeling like multiple personalities mismatched and something Ian(I think, maybe windrunner) said, a lot of the 'inconsistencies' can be explained well by the storm father harboring Tanavast's cognitive shadow. I think that there is, or was, a Fuzz-esque Tanavast hiding within the storm father. Before he was more at the forefront. Now he's hiding, I think specifically hiding how aware he is from Odium. He was able to hide and be at the front while Odium was exiled to Braize, but not when when Odium is allowed on Roshar. That's why he was sooo bothered by a Herald dying. It meant that he would need to go into hiding once the new herald broke, and like he said 'I'm not ready'
@Gnobshobble
2 жыл бұрын
Spoilers ahead, beware: The stormfather lying really recontextualizes all of those moments of "well you just never asked" like man what does he want with good old dally-d
@swyts
2 жыл бұрын
To back up Evgeni, I crawled out of a 2nd story window when I was a baby, and I had no injuries.
@masonwheeler6536
2 жыл бұрын
Likewise, my little brother crawled off a balcony and emerged unscathed.
@fenris5932
2 жыл бұрын
kids are bouncy
@astrouphel
2 жыл бұрын
This couldn't have come at a more opportune time! I just watched your video about 10 crazy things in RoW and was craving more Stormlight content from 17th Shard
@XavierRD
2 жыл бұрын
Ian's reactions to both Evgeni's fall from grace and babies comments are amazing.
@Schluggo
2 жыл бұрын
Wooo as a Secret Project spoiler-free enjoyer I can return to this channel!
@CudiBuddy4Life
2 жыл бұрын
I feel like everything is going to fall apart in the 5th book; Dalinar fails but becomes super important as a background character in the second half of the series. Jasnah basically becomes the new Dalinar 6-10
@brianstevens3923
2 жыл бұрын
Been waiting for this one. I know I’m about to be told things I never thought of for 3 hours. Love it
@juan.o.p.
2 жыл бұрын
I've been waiting for this since the day I read the prologue!!!
@woofergranade2044
2 жыл бұрын
The way “Stormfather” appears to Gavelar reminds me an awful lot of Preservation appearing to Vin.
@GrapefruitPizza
Жыл бұрын
When did Preservation appear to Vin? Or do you mean Ruin?
@k-majik
2 жыл бұрын
Woohoo! I've been so excited to hear your thoughts on this one, I'm watching it straight away and might comment more thoughts later. By the way, thanks for all the amazing discussions as Brandon has deluged us with fantastic stuff :P PS No idea what to make of the Stormfather, maybe this episode will sway me one way or another?
@17thShard
2 жыл бұрын
We talk about the Stormfather extensively here! -Eric
@k-majik
2 жыл бұрын
Update: I think the Stormfather is the real Stormfather, I was leaning that way and your arguments convinced. I'm totally sold on Chana Davar though, I'd be surprised if that wasn't true!
@alexvergis1017
2 жыл бұрын
My two possibly crazy theories: 1) I find it interesting that at the end of Oathbringer, Jezrien is intially unconcerned that he is about to die. You would think that if dying was going to send him back to Braize he would be more concerned about it. You could say that he wasn't thinking about it, but perhaps what is happening is that his disconnection from the Oathpact prevents him from returning to Braize. In addition, all the heralds are involved in dangerous activities, there is an extremely low chance that they could have all survived for 4000 years (especially with Odium wanting them to return to Braize). It seems logical then that if Chanarach is Shallan's mother, then a Herald can only be sent back if killed by a Shardblade or Radiant Blade. Which would explain why Nale and Ishar are so determined to stop Radiant orders from arriving, any Radiant Blades risk a new desolation. 2) From memory, highly-invested entities with strong connections to a particular shard cannot move far away from that shard's influence. It's possible that Kelsier wants Ba-Ado-Mishram to connect all the Ghostbloods to herself, so they can go wherever she goes, granting them freedom.
@haldalas
2 жыл бұрын
I really like the Ghostbloods theory. I wonder if she’d even be able to leave Roshar, though, being so much of Odium?
@Bronimin
Жыл бұрын
Killing their physical body probably just shunts them to the cognitive realm, short trip to the peaks and they're back. Their connection to the physical realm is through the pact, so they can go right through.
@somanyroads1994
2 жыл бұрын
Don't want it to go to his head but Evgeni is hilarious. "Ian stop derailing the episode" lol
@thexerun8812
2 жыл бұрын
100% agree with Jess on the Stormfather. I think Brandon wrote this line in to cover himself “I will never trust your family again”. That says to me that Brandon is using that line to have the Stormfather know things he has to know, but not reveal them to Dalinar. Like with how he knew about the Oathpact or multiple other times. He doesn’t answer anything unless asked directly. Combine that with First Draft Brandon. And I think that’s all it is.
@ashleyromero1996
2 жыл бұрын
This was really worth the wait! I'm glad yall did this one as a longer episode, we needed that time to discuss.
@elArqui22
2 жыл бұрын
24:20 I think the stormfather AND Tanavast were acting together since tanavast shouldn`t have died until the oath pact was broken, and it only brakes when one of the heralds "breaks" with out the ten of them being in Braize, I think... thats why when a herald dies, Tanavast freaks out saying "A Herald… A Herald has died… No. I am not ready… The Oathpact… No. They mustn’t see. They mustn’t know…", and even if he died before, like the preservation shard did, he could be hanging around after death
@hubrisnxs2013
2 жыл бұрын
That's a rrrrrrreally good theory, and not just because I happen to agree 👍
@MrKyuuren
2 жыл бұрын
Gotta love being within walking distance of crazy town for the next 18 or so months! Even this very rough draft is a renaissance merchant's worth of spice
@atticuswench1561
2 жыл бұрын
Finally. I think you guys are great, been going hard on all your videos since I read Mistborn in December. I cannot believe I’ve been sleeping on Brandon Sanderson for so long. Love your content!
@17thShard
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the kind words! And yeah it took a while to get to this one because of the secret projects. But hopefully it's a good one. -Eric
@hubrisnxs2013
2 жыл бұрын
Right? How far have you gotten into the other series... Have you gotten to Stormlight Archive yet?
@atticuswench1561
2 жыл бұрын
@@hubrisnxs2013 I have finished Era 1, Era 2, and all of Stormlight. I’m obsessed. I haven’t read Elantris or White Sand. I’ve been watching The 17th Shard stuff after each book, they definitely have the most in-depth and interesting content. I’ve really enjoyed the journey. I’m on a Stormlight re-read now.
@hubrisnxs2013
2 жыл бұрын
@@atticuswench1561 I totally agree. I had the same reading order, and so, yeah, it's obviously the best one! Also, reading 3500ish pages since December? For the general public, that'd be insane, but to the average Sanderson fan, it's kinda the bare minimum. By the by, going into the back catalog for 17th Shard 3+ years has been more than worth it for me. What's your favorite episode so far?
@atticuswench1561
2 жыл бұрын
@@hubrisnxs2013 oh, goodness, it is so hard to say which episodes are my favorite. I enjoy the character breakdown episodes, all the RoW reactions and of course any theorizing. The WoB episodes. The death rattle eps. Just really love this channel over-all. It is so nice to hear other people nerding out. I don't have anyone that enjoys reading what I read to discuss this stuff with so I am really grateful I found this channel.
@csummer3594
2 жыл бұрын
Ill be honest, I was more excited about this podcast about the prologue than the prologue itself
@EllenSmyth
Жыл бұрын
Regarding Fused Gavilar: I have always thought that the Soulcast kings & Knights Radiant who'd been Soulcast so that they could be reanimated to fight to take back the Tranquiline Halls was legit foreshadowing. I believe we will see that happen. Does that mean that Gavilar will be reanimated early as Odium's Champion? Probably not.
@MateusAntonioBittencourt
2 жыл бұрын
I'm surprised how everyone strongly believes that that was the real Stormfather. While reading it, and after, I was constantly vacillating between thinking it was and not. Currently I'm more in the camp that it isn't. I did a reread after the prologue came out... and the relationship the Stormfather have build with Dalinar, and other people like Syl and Kaladin, doesn't match with the "Stormfather" in the prologue. And there's tons times where the Stormfather would have lied and actively deceived Dalinar. We have seen the Stormfather become more aware of himself, humans, emotions as the bond progresses. Like we've seen with Syl and Pattern. But the "Stormfather" of the prologue even without a bond is fully aware... has plans... a personality. It would feel like a betrayal for the character who have been build so far... specially with his send out for Eshonai on RoW.
@coydepratt9877
2 жыл бұрын
I think most people probably just think that a fake storm father would be a silly, impractical, pointless plot line
@MateusAntonioBittencourt
2 жыл бұрын
@@coydepratt9877 Why silly and impractical? I think it could be Ishar trying to transfer his bond of Herald to another person. Speaking of silly and impractical, this is the same prologue that has Kelsier talking to Gavilar in a Seon on a Trench-coat. That is top silliness. But why Gavilar being wrong about the identity of the person he thought was the Stormfather "silly, impractical and pointless". Is he also being wrong about the identities of Nale and Kalak "silly, impractical and pointless"
@freakyphil93
2 жыл бұрын
100% agree with you here. If that was the actual stormfather, we have to throw out everything we know about Spren. Spren cannot change their minds without the Nahel bond. Spren cannot go against their natures. To suggest that the stormfather, a LITERAL SPREN OF OATHS, is capable of lying is silly.
@Bronimin
Жыл бұрын
In the way of kings, the Stormfather is believed by the Vorin church to be one of the Heralds, Ishar or Kalek, ascended. The same person. We later learn that they aren't, but that sort of thing is exactly the type of joke Brandon likes to sneak in, to have a Herald disguise themselves as the Stormfather.
@fioqw4596
2 жыл бұрын
I was waiting for this soo much since the preview dropped. There are soo many questions I need shardcast to answer/debate........
@peaceofcrap
Жыл бұрын
Regarding the Stormfather not becoming a blade to Dalinar, I got the impression from their conversation in Words of Radiance that this was an extra oath that Dalinar was taking on for the Stormfather's comfort because of his reluctance to enter a bond in the first place. I get the impression that historically the Stormfather and Nightwatcher could and did manifest as blades, but the Sibling's Bondsmith was probably always restricted to plate alone for obvious reasons. This is a roundabout way of me saying that I think Dalinar's oath never to summon the Stormfather is unique to him and is not an Ideal in and of itself but is no less an ironclad part of his Nahel bond with the Stormfather which is why violating it could make the Stormfather into a deadeye.
@hubrisnxs2013
2 жыл бұрын
11:46 Oh goodness! Windrunner with the dope joke nobody got! He's already a Herald? Nobody?
@ethanbrinkman3401
Жыл бұрын
My Crack theory: BAM is the spren of Roshar. She can originally pump out lifelight like stormfather does stormlight. Odium unmakes her and when she pushes out her investiture it's voidlight which changes the singers. I think she was the first unmade.
@wynnefox
2 жыл бұрын
On the topic of Preservation and Vinn, On rereads of Secret History, I think he pretty much established that back when he was "whole", Preservation saw the best way to "Win" was to tie. So he set his pieces up very subtly against Ruin's, so after he lost his mind, Preservation's natural movements pushed Vinn into place using Ruin's own moves against him resulting in the death of both of them.
@davidmorales-dm7xm
2 жыл бұрын
Finally!!! Thank you guys for doing this! On the prologue, I find Gavilar's character just great. He's such a jerk and you can see it through and through. The part where he says he would just give up to keep fighting is one of the best lines on this entire series for me, what an a$$h0le.
@connor_phillipz5689
2 жыл бұрын
One of the most interesting things I think we learned from this prologue is that the Stormfather can just lie to Dalinar. In Oathbringer when he is telling them the truth about the Heralds he says "In these millennia none have ever died and returned to damnation" which we know now is completely false. I think the implications of that are massive.
@hubrisnxs2013
2 жыл бұрын
I didn't notice that and, yes, that's another one. The only way that could be true is that if the Herald that died didn't go back to Braize... Granted I still hate the theory that Chana was killed the night Gavilar died and broke when the Everstorm arrived
@17thShard
2 жыл бұрын
Grace definitely thinks a lot of Oathbringer chapter 38 is false. How much though is anyone's guess... -Eric
@deadmatt666
2 жыл бұрын
1:52:40 i am increasing sure that Ba-Ado-Mishram either was a bondsmith spren that was unmade or at the very least bondsmith type powers, and when everything with Ba-Ado-Mishram happened, the radiants saw how a bondsmith unchained (or surges in general) no longer being bound by honor, it made them realized how dangerous these powers can be, plus given Ashyn was destroyed (Ishar being minupulated by Odium into experimenting with surges). they decided both to imprison Ba-Ado-Mishram and to give up their oaths.
@mearlytheadministrator9562
2 жыл бұрын
I think a possible dead herald candidate that is overlooked is shallan's mother's friend who is also killed that night
@TheBarackAttack
2 жыл бұрын
Hi, new viewer here, I've been going through old podcast episodes after recently getting into the Cosmere and noticed something extremely concerning. I feel like we don't get enough time for Argent's show & tell and would like to request that he get his own segment.
@_argent
2 жыл бұрын
👀
@TheBarackAttack
2 жыл бұрын
@@_argent keep fighting the good fight brother, ✊
@17thShard
2 жыл бұрын
Hey I am just trying to have a good balance of nonsense without padding these episodes too much! -Eric
@liberTvalance
8 ай бұрын
Jesus.... I get on a couple other series for a year and just realize today that this was released and you guys reviewed it.... AHHH...
@karloswald407
2 жыл бұрын
So who’s POV is the Dai Gonarthis death rattle from? That seems like it would be a big moment if it’s potentially going to be happening on screen. “Let me no longer hurt! Let me no longer weep! Dai-gonarthis! The Black Fisher holds my sorrow and consumes it!” Could be Moash?
@Betadel
2 жыл бұрын
Woah, I like it
@woofergranade2044
2 жыл бұрын
I think that in the moment when Dalenar forced Storm Father to open the gate he almost forged a new Oath Blade. A sliver given physical form maybe.
@EllenSmyth
Жыл бұрын
Regarding Gav as a Herald: The words he's looking for are KR words, I believe, because it seems that the correct path to replacing Ishar would be to first become a KR Bondsmith and then reform and rewrite the oathpact. There are words for the oathpact: oaths that need to be spoken, hence the name oathpact. But I don't think a regular human can just create a new oathpact. They need to have powers first, investiture first, and so that's why Gav needs to become a KR Bondsmith first. Even before I read this prologue today, really since OB and the Battle of Thaylen Field, I had been thinking that Dalinar's nine but seems like there should be ten (ten with Venli) would be the new oathpact. These 10 match the books, too, if you count RoW as being both Eshonai/Venli. So the books are each themed around a new herald. The only issue is that we have 0 Dustbringers and 2 Lightweavers: Ash and Shallan. Not sure how that will play out. (Oh, the Chanarach Davar theory! I'd never heard such. I hate it, and yet, that would explain why Shallan might become the new Dustbringer Herald...)
@tanlund5735
8 ай бұрын
I think the Stormfather’s prime directive is to find someone to take up the shard of Honor, but that person would need to be a bondsmith to first reforge the shard. Now that there are two bondsmiths, even if Dalinar looses the contest of champions, Navani could still reforge Honor and ascend. Which may be why Rayse was so freaked out when she bonded the Sibling
@dookieshoe2905
2 жыл бұрын
What a pleasant surprise on this beautiful Saturday. Freaking Thaidakar makes an appearance after how many years of waiting?! XD
@oneukum
2 жыл бұрын
14:30 Whence did Aesudan get an Unmade? That is the big unknown. 21:30 Would you really want your spren to talk about you to the next symbiont? Because that is what such a conversation would imply. 45:30 Did the Stormfather want to reestablish the Knights Radiant at that time? Replacing the heralds is a rational option at that time. Who sets the goal? 57:30 The Everstorm has fundamentally changed the situation. 1:42:00 Does Thaidakar know about antiilight? 1:44:00 Aesudan seems to be playing Navani to be underestimated. For all her brilliance Navani is a snob. 1:47:00 Antilight is also an anti-Kelsier weapon. 1:50:00 But there is something in the archive. Urithiru had begun failing. 2:15:00 The problem there is that Honor would also be bound by "ownership" of information. If you learned something under the even informal understanding that you not tell, he would need to heed that.
@hubrisnxs2013
2 жыл бұрын
Great list of questions. Before responding with my own, what do you have as tentative theories on the answers?
@oneukum
2 жыл бұрын
@@hubrisnxs2013 1. This prologue is not the full truth about Gavilar. Aesudan and Gavilar cooperated. 2. Urithiru's troubles were a symptom. That was the reason they could not just release Ba-Ado-Mishram.
@matiasbar
2 жыл бұрын
I know maybe is not the theme of the prologue but, i really want to talk about how taravangian and dalinar will conquer all the Cosmere. Taravangian win the duel of champions, Dalinar become his commander, and the two can talk in the fire about what planet will destroy next. Dalinar embrace the odium :O
@connor_phillipz5689
2 жыл бұрын
1:15:00 LMAO. I really hope that is word for word what happens. That would be hilarious.
@freebird6591
2 жыл бұрын
I wasnt sure it was Stormfather in the beginning, considering the diffeences in appearance and personality. Could he be considered quite new in terms of courting Gavilar and using interactive sentience? As in, he might be even more unformed than with Dalinar and so would take on aspects of them? Takes on traits of the possible bonder, as an instinctual template of consciousness while he slowly forms his own. Hence the difference in personality with the brothers, as he slowly claims his own individualty as the books go on and shifts away from his dalinar-like sense of honor, control, determined frustration etc. Edit:. ...Aaand i just heard Jess' thoughts on the Stormfathers difference... To quote South Park, "this is making insanely good sense".
@freelance4200
Жыл бұрын
The stormfather is encouraging oaths opposite of the radiant oaths. He says he's not even close when he says "it is not the destination that matters, but how one arrives there." And he says gavinar is close at "Give it to me. Now." I think the "stormfather" was making an antiRadiant.
@Bronimin
Жыл бұрын
He's not trying to get a radiant oath out of Gav, he's trying to get Gav to agree to take his share of the Oathpact.
@SneakyTogedemaru
11 ай бұрын
1:11:44 - and that's when I subscribed to Chana Davar theory. Timeline even has a wiggle room since Chana could've held for a while like I can imagine her holding for like 6 years so that appearance of Taln lines up with the moment he got back to Roshar, but then also who knows how long he wandered before entering the city, so that's additional bit of wiggle room for the timeline there. But then question stands why Lin interested Chana and were she ever interested in him in the first place if the skybreaker neofit associate of hers really was a lover. I can imagine Lin being a very different person at the start and past finding Chana around the time or soon after trouble found Davar family and set Lin on the path he ended up on... Narrative fits, and there can be a lot to Chana's story there beside "just being there to get killed". Her thoughts and reasons for all those things and personal struggles she faced back then very well might be explored in Stormlight V or back half, however sorry I am to place yet another expectation/excuse on the back half... But then I do feel like it would be more fun to get more on the heralds, all of them, since the last desolation or since the recreance, to maybe see their perspectives on the recreance and their ways to keep living their lives, what they found fun and relaxing, what was they thinking about during those long centuries, like there's ten immortals right there and every story of an immortal I read or watched so far ended up in some cool themes, if a bit repetitive, although I'd imagine theoretical eternity of the future and many hundreds of years of the past would make anyone's mind race in loops...
@HMK-nh4ft
4 ай бұрын
Is there anything fundamentally different between the unique spren (the stormfather, sibling, and nightwatcher) and the un-made? Is it possible for more Bondsmith, if they bond with the un-made? Something like what Renarin has going on?
@wizthrift
2 жыл бұрын
Along the point of Shallan's mother she wanted to kill Shallan because she was becoming "one of those" most likely meaning a radiant which her and the other heralds didn't want to return.
@juanperret7044
2 жыл бұрын
The thing with the storm father is that he's always all about not changing and so resistant to it. So the idea that he would change is very peculiar
@ShaunshankRedemption
2 жыл бұрын
You mention Ba Ado Mishram being a princess of the voidbringers when talking about the singers, but humans are the real voidbringers. Perhaps she was a princess of the humans. That would fit the timeline better.
@17thShard
2 жыл бұрын
So that is an interesting idea for sure! What highprincess of the Voidbringers means is very much an open question, so this is possible. I am not sure how much stock we should take of Hessi's legends. Hessi clearly doesn't know the full story, and certainly for thousands of years they would assume the singers are the Voidbringers. (Though realistically I don't even think Hessi knows the singer = Voidbringer association. Depends when Mythica was published, but I assumed it was pre-WoK?) It is definitely possible though. I tend to prefer the idea that BAM is some very important spren of Roshar, and given the human invaders aspect, I don't know how well that fits together. That said, we really have no idea how much the human Voidbringer stuff works, and so that's all probably much more prominent than we think. -Eric
@freebird6591
2 жыл бұрын
Perhaps Ba Ado Mishram, in her attempt to be a source of forms and power for a (mixed?) group of singers/humans, was unable to handle the sheer amount of numbers requesting access thru her. Her reaching for the capacity to provide, required her own tone/rhythm, one of a peoples who have abandoned both sides of this war. Perhaps the listeners are some of her followers who fled- abandoning their attempt at independence- for isolation and peace. Fleeing before her imprisonment. Her own particular fusion tone may be one that eventually became discordant with the pure tones of Roshar but with so many holding to her forms and tone, coupled with her inability to handle so much, created a feedback inteference between the claimed Identity of the 3 toned planet Roshar, itself. Requiring some radiants to imprison and stop her from vibrating the planet apart ha. Also, i think ba ado mishram was originally Cultivations first daughter who was unmade by odium. Sja Anat is either Odiums rogue bonsmith or even Ba ado's child born to odium.
@hubrisnxs2013
2 жыл бұрын
That's a great theory! Isn't it the case though that Odium, at least, doesn't have access to the Surge of Connection? The Singers say the 10th surge (Connection) is a false one pushed for by Honor, perhaps also indicating Cultivation doesn't have access to Connection either. Maybe that's why Cultivation and Odium are able to see into the Future?
@freebird6591
2 жыл бұрын
@@hubrisnxs2013 if i remember correctly, honors true surge was Adhesion.
@hubrisnxs2013
2 жыл бұрын
@@freebird6591 that's the one for bondsmiths right? Then yes, and thanks for the correction. Adhesion then is the false surge the Fused say is a lie
@freebird6591
2 жыл бұрын
@@hubrisnxs2013 yea and adhesion is for the windrunners as well. Selective memory in play by the singers as they were of Honor long before they left for Odium. Im guessing its easier to lie to themselves concerning honor and his true surge than admit that they left their god for a far more controlling and abusive one. Cultivation gives the surge of regrowth, honor has adhesion. Going out on a limb here by saying all other surges were agreed upon/manifested from their physical force in reality to a surge of harnessable investiture via spren. I think all shards have some form of future sight, thru their connection to the spiritual realm tho some are better than others. Honors was average. Cultivations was good. Odiums is better?
@coydepratt9877
2 жыл бұрын
Could Cultivation be who is pushing the Storm Father towards the Kholin family?
@LrnecBuma
2 жыл бұрын
When i think Of Mishram conecting to the entire planet of singers that could sing to the rythem of voidlight/anti investirue in unision I forget exactly the details i just remember what was going on with Venli when she like connects to the stone and she experiences shaping the form or something through rythem?
@wraith.ferron
2 жыл бұрын
Weird thing I just thought of: Travangian recieved his mother's death rattle from his own point of view, which meant the death rattles have a targeted audience who may or should have had a connection/Connection to the intended audience. Imagine who these people could've been if their lives hadn't been changed by Taravangian's actions.
@heatherrockwell9012
2 жыл бұрын
Amazing editing move cutting Ian's rant off after "But-"
@kandkchadwick-fisher3158
2 жыл бұрын
I think it is the stormfather. Remember that he showed the visions but at first he was very against any new radiants or aligning himself with anyone. I think that isn't just a response to the recreance but also to Gavilar.
@matiasbar
2 жыл бұрын
the vission of shanon is awesome, thx for all the work u do !
@Funilesh
2 жыл бұрын
I believe it is the real Stormfather but his personality is kinda affected by Gavilar because he's trying to bond with him and so maybe they're influence each other. Like how Gavilar looked regal and commanding and noble to others
@storyspren
2 жыл бұрын
When the WTCC hints and answer make everyone so happy and Ian go "I hate you" you know it's brilliant :D
@gordonhenderson9213
2 жыл бұрын
I also thought blue head as the same color of a kolos. Maybe he is using a body of one of those for the projection or something along those lines.
@patrickboyle1135
9 ай бұрын
I feel like there have been some new hints from Brandon since. There's this WoB, answering a question about Shallan's drawing people as better versions of themselves: "As will all sort of future sight/foretelling in the cosmere, it is not necessarily telling the future so much as seeing possibilities. And Shallan has… we’ll get into this in Book Five. Shallan’s a little extra good at this, for Spiritual mumbo jumbo. (It’s not necessarily just Spiritual mumbo jumbo, 17th Shard.) In this case, we have a very distinct reason why this is happening with Shallan that you might be able to put together. It’s pretty obvious. But you should be able to see these things with Shallan very early in the books. As early as Words of Radiance, I was sticking in little nods to this. She is able to grab glimpses of the Spiritual Realm in ways that even other Lightweavers can’t do. Lightweaving always has a bit of this, right? And this comes back to what’s going on with the Realmatic Theory and Plato’s Theory of the Forms as kind of a foundational text that helped me develop this in my mind. You’re seeing more perfect versions of who you could be. When she’s doing a sketch, she’s sometimes sketching not who you are, but who you could be."
@oneukum
9 ай бұрын
In this discussion, frankly, what is the point of replacing the oathpact? The Everstorm now exists and the contest of champions is supposed to end the desolation. What do you need a new oathpact for?
@katieamarsh
2 жыл бұрын
Waking up to this is a huge treat!!!
@magdilen7
2 жыл бұрын
Finally got around to watching this! I think that is the Stormfather in the prologue. Could Cultivation have asked the Stormfather to show the visions to Dalinar? Tanavast knew that Cultivation was good at seeing the future, so its plausible that the Stormfather knew that as well. Its also likely that they had some sort of long standing relationship. I think Cultivation could have convinced the Stormfather to show Dalinar the visions after his visit to the Nightwatcher, since he had stopped drinking and started following the Codes.
@jcmshurtleff
2 жыл бұрын
My theory is the Chana is her mom but that she is also Formless. Chana was working with Ishar on a way to get off planet and he was trying to bond their souls to a new body and thought it would work better with their own children. Things go sideways when Shallan kills her
@rickymanwaring2066
Жыл бұрын
do you think the storm father had talked with taravangian or given him visions?
@hubrisnxs2013
2 жыл бұрын
Stormfather lies! In Chapter 74 Striding the Storm of Words of Radiance, the Stormfather tells Kaladin that he (Kal) had killed Syl
@havewissmart9602
2 жыл бұрын
Syl did die. She just came back. I was as dead as your oaths
@hubrisnxs2013
2 жыл бұрын
@@havewissmart9602 his oaths weren't dead, or she would have become a dead eye. I'm pretty sure the recreance was caused by the radiants breaking their oaths and boom deadeyes, rather than gradual stuff. Also, mind you the Stormfather tried to keep Syl from Kaladin, which he was upset at her for breaking, which again shows he was straight up lying. Respectfully, of course
@havewissmart9602
2 жыл бұрын
@@hubrisnxs2013 His oaths were dead. The only way to fix the situation was swearing a higher oath. Syl is the one who says his oaths were dead, not me. Pattern does say that the original radiants could have revived the deadeyes if they were not dead. You can easily revive your own spren by saying a higher oath
@hubrisnxs2013
2 жыл бұрын
@@havewissmart9602 where is this expressly said? She said she was as dead as his oaths, not that she was dead or his oaths were dead. Look, maybe this is a confusion of language. From my perspective, if you want to call being told she can not communicate with Kaladin, and then going against that before swearing a higher ideal DEAD, then we have very different ideas about death. If you mean dead in the way spren mean dead, then we pretty much agree. That is, we agree that Kaladins oaths were not dead... And neither was Syl, so the Stormfather lied. Again, and I don't mean this ironically, all due respect.
@hubrisnxs2013
2 жыл бұрын
Anyway he also lied about no other Heralds dying and going to Braize when he said it in Oathbringer
@danielbroome5690
Жыл бұрын
Just rewatching, BUT no shallan would very well not recognize her mother in those pictures IF she saw them. Because as youve read rythm of war and seen how in denial and hiding her own memories from herself i can very well believe her not recognizing her moms face
@carlsmith4568
Жыл бұрын
I am fully on board for Gavilar returning in book 5. I can’t think of a better emotional antagonist than him. Doubt that it will happen, but I would personally love it.
@Hoid1990
2 жыл бұрын
10/10 - great cast!
@sarahhenthorn9901
Жыл бұрын
On the topic of Ishar sensing when the Herald died - didn’t Shalash and/or Taln sense when Jezrien is murdered by Vyre or am I misremembering? I love the theory and I am very interested to see how book 5 plays out!!
@Bronimin
Жыл бұрын
Yes they sensed it, the stormfather did not
@tanyam928
2 жыл бұрын
I go back and forth if I think it is the Stormfather or not. I have been leaning towards it not being him, but you had good arguments for why it is. Still not totally convinced, he is acting so different. But it could just be he learned from his interactions with Gavilar not to trust and do things differently and circumstances changed with the Herald dying and Everstorm coming
@dagonzalez1757
2 жыл бұрын
What if the Stormfather started giving Dalinar the visions because he found out that Odium was using The Thrill on him to become his champion?
@woofergranade2044
2 жыл бұрын
I still think that something is driving all highly invested being insane. It seems to have started with Honor and maybe it effected Mishra.
@chrisbammer4946
2 жыл бұрын
In prologue of Book 4 it says Navani's office is on the second floor but in book 5 prologue it says its on the third floor
@danielbaker1190
2 жыл бұрын
This is not a contradiction. Women count the ground floor as 0 then the next floors as 1 and 2. Men count the ground floor as floor 1 and the next floors as 2 and 3.
@chrisbammer4946
2 жыл бұрын
@@danielbaker1190 you have a source for that?
@joshuafischer684
2 жыл бұрын
It could just be a simple error.
@chrisbammer4946
2 жыл бұрын
@@joshuafischer684 I'm hunting for the error. Brandon said there was a continuity error in the prologue somewhere.
@chandrireddy8230
2 жыл бұрын
I’ve been waiting for this one haha 😵💫 can’t wait to listen
@chandrireddy8230
2 жыл бұрын
I totally had no idea that Shallan’s mom being a herald was a thing, but I think it makes some sense of why she wanted to kill Shallan. I think ishar condoned the skybreaker’s radiant killing so maybe another herald agreed? idk… huh…
@vamsiampolu8438
2 жыл бұрын
Maybe Brandon is throwing us a red-hairring. But it's an interesting theory, i support it
@thepocketboy
2 жыл бұрын
Will the last oath have to be said by the spren?
@wynnefox
2 жыл бұрын
A thought that just hit me, Only a thought. With Mistborn Era 2 being timelined after Books 1-5 of SLA, what if Trell is Kelsier pulling a Ba-Ado-Mishram?
@ilregiallo4151
2 жыл бұрын
Gavillar is basically a darkfriend from the Wheel of Time ("I'm gonna live forever!" + "Everyone is stupid except me"). In my opinion that is the Stormfather. I'm much more interested in seeing a darker side of SF than seeing an Unmade pretending to be SF. Besides, what other entity could know that a Herald died? The Stormfather or Ishar. I too thought "Chana Davar" was a crack theory, and I too believe it now. There are so many weirdness in Shallan's past that actually giving her an Herald Mommy fit well, connects many things together (The Ghostbloods, the Sons of Honor, the Skybreakers, the Unmade, Hoid, the Cryptics... why should everyone being so interested in a small noble house of Veden?) Shallan has a Magic Dissociative Identity Disorder and Dissociative Amnesia, I doubt she could have recognized her. Maybe she could now, after RoW.
@darknstormyknights
2 жыл бұрын
for the algorithm! ❤
@ryanratchford2530
2 жыл бұрын
Shallan’s mum is definitely a herald
@maxvanhooren8606
4 ай бұрын
Just listened to Brandon reading the prologue, and I thought the artefabrian was "khriss" which we all know and love. Learning that is "Kris" was a dissapointment
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