As someone with a background in formal philosophy, I take a lot of umbrage with Qimir and Mae's perspectives that the Jedi giving up part of themselves is in some way a limitation or injustice. A large part of philosophy as a discipline is understanding that giving of oneself and the surrendering of the self is a necessary part of growth as an individual; it's not a lessening of a person to give up attachment, but rather an understanding that we must grow beyond it. Sol's moment of anger and then acceptance was absolutely beautiful, and something I identified with personally a great deal as he so quickly allows himself to feel the full breadth of human emotion and reaction to trauma, but then conquers that pain with the understanding that the best thing he can do for himself and those that fell is to make actionable steps forward in a positive direction. Sol survived Jecki, and his acceptance of her/the team's deaths was one of the most Jedi moments we have ever seen on screen.
@michaelmccarstle4527
Ай бұрын
Well said, friend. Well said.
@Vulcanerd
Ай бұрын
Also, Sith reasoning has always seemed specious and self serving while sounding deep and profound. What do you want? I just want what everyone wants, freedom. Ok, but freedom to do what? You say to wield your power as you see fit, but there’s been a history and mountain of evidence where “your way” inflicts death, suffering and harm. With no disciple, no control, giving in into your worst instincts.
@kito-
Ай бұрын
Which philosophers or philosophical views do you have in mind here?
@nicholasarkis6116
Ай бұрын
I'm a Jedi Apologist, so take this as you will. I've never understood why some people think Jedi had to be emotionless monks. They aren't Vulcans. Yoda spoke to Luke about old friends. Was clearly friends with the wookies. Obi-Wan thought of Anakin like brother. Was friends with Dex. Could Jedi love? Obi-Wan says he loved Anakin. But a Jedi's highest calling, highest priority, will always be to serve the Force. For light and life. I think a friend of a Jedi has to be comfortable with that. A Jedi must be able to live with that. Jedi have to be willing and able to let people go. This doesn't mean they are unfeeling or unsympathetic. But death isn't the end for them. Transforming into the Force isn't a bad thing for them. In some ways, a Jedi can likely feel a friendship even deeper through the Force.
@nicholasarkis6116
Ай бұрын
Another thought: Why'd she put on the helmet? Perhaps she's missed the feeling of the Force. It's been a while since she'd been a padawan. Using and feeling the Force the way the Jedi do, the hard way, is something that can fade. Maybe it can be rediscovered. Ahsoka suggests this. But that takes time. Training. Discipline. Maybe years. If only there were another way. A quicker, easier, ultimately more seductive way to tap back into the Force. That's what the Stranger is selling her. The gateway back? Anger. Fear. Aggression. That's what he's suggesting that she take into that helmet with her.
@marjoe32
Ай бұрын
Love the talk like always yall get me thinking and laughing.
@michaelmccarstle4527
Ай бұрын
I am absolutely on board for the dichotomy between Sol and Qimir. They have quickly become one of my favorite examples of polar opposites in regard to philosophy. Every word out of Qimir's mouth pisses me off, because it's all just pretty lies. On the other hand, I just want to give Sol a hug, because he clearly feels a deep remorse for whatever it is he did wrong in the past and desperately wants to make things right. Unlike Qimir, he wants to take responsibility. As unlikely as it is, I just want the two of them to have a long conversation. I could listen to them debate philosophy for hours. And I really need whatever workout and diet they had Manny on, because he is absolutely ripped.
@michaelmccarstle4527
Ай бұрын
Also. My fiancée had the same reaction to the lightwhip as Sara did. She paused and said "Wait. What??? That's a thing? I want one." I'm so grateful that this show is getting her more interested in Star Wars.
@auntvesuvi3872
Ай бұрын
Thanks, Joseph! Thanks, Ken! 🌑
@Sadie3233
Ай бұрын
Such a great discussion of the deeper humanist themes in the episode, series and Star Wars more broadly. Especially appreciated the discussion about various kinds of intimacy as represented in the actions and values of Sol and Qimir. All the best.
@stubbywankenobi1
Ай бұрын
I think Sol keeps almost telling the story just to remind the audience that the motivations of characters has yet to be revealed and that all will be revealed soon. Otherwise some people will judge character actions without thinking about the missing pieces and will be confused by their actions
@Jaaol1
Ай бұрын
This is great stuff, guys. Don't understand why it's taken me so long to find you
@ForceCenter
Ай бұрын
We’re glad you’re here now!
@ZachBobBob
Ай бұрын
Damn now I really want an Obi-Wan x Satine steamy romance novel. Also that the Sith using the word friend conversation made me chuckle. A pet peeve of mine is people calling others 'my friend'. It always feels so manipulative and insincere, but maybe that's because the only people I've know that say that were always nasty pieces of work. Also also I totally agree with the playful music, I rolled my eyes at that and I totally agree with the weird editing.
@Barf-Barfolomew
Ай бұрын
Loving the Acolyte. Some of the best Star Wars since ESB imo. We are finally getting to see Dark Side training in live action! I have a theory that Osha will end up being Plagueis by the end. I love this idea. The show is titled the Acolyte after all. But Even if no one is Plagueis and everyone winds up as just new characters I’m fine with it. I never get mad at Star Wars. I’ve always watched it as if it’s history and that’s just what happened a long time ago in A galaxy far, far away.
@nicholasarkis6116
Ай бұрын
I can deal with the mini series long movie aspect. Just make the episodes close to an hour. Longer episodes would quell much of my grievances with The Acolyte and most live action Star Wars. Another favorite series of mine that has the one season long story mini series movie vibe is Stranger Things. But they have long episodes. Moments can breathe, beats can feel more earned, and the pacing feels better. But I digress. I'm still very much enjoying the show.
@michaelmccarstle4527
Ай бұрын
My only thing about extending the runtime is that it would then require a significant budget increase. If they made a movie the length of thus show, it would cost double what it already does. And I don't necessarily care about Disney spending more money, but, unfortunately, for the shows to succeed, they unfortunately seem to have to operate on a much lower budget, relative to the films. It's not fair to those who are actually making the show, but it is sadly the reality of the business side of things.
@ZachBobBob
Ай бұрын
Agree, or if they absolutely must make the episodes in this short format drop it as a binge so it flows better.
@Vulcanerd
Ай бұрын
I’ve said this a bunch elsewhere, but I feel like these types of storytelling shorthands have been used in animated stuff like TCW and Rebels where a single moment or scene is supposed to convey whole feelings, meanings, themes, etc. But, it doesn’t seem to work as well with live action? A common criticism of not having enough time to develop characters or relationships or fully delve into a storyline would be mitigated if we could have longer episodes. If we could have seen an earlier scene with Osha studying with the Jedi, if we could have seen her forming friendships with Yord and other classmates, that would immediately get us invested into multiple characters at once (or even more). It would also allow for more like what it means to be a Jedi. How do the Jedi reconcile having to be more stoic to maintain clarity while dispensing justice with compassion through the republic, etc. They are giving us a scene like in TCW where, then, we can fill in the blanks, but it feels too sparse in Acolyte? Not sure.
@nicholasarkis6116
Ай бұрын
@Vulcanerd I think you're on to something. I'm currently re-watching Rebels. I've been amazed at how almost every episode feels like a complete story, despite the shorter length for being animated. I wonder if it's because each episode is conceived and written as a short stand alone story? Viewed together, they create a larger whole in terms of a series or season arc. But some live action series feel like they wrote the whole thing at once and broke the episodes up later. The weird thing is, I'm almost certain that's not how they do it. They do conceive and write one episode at a time. But the pacing doesn't always feel like it. I don't understand why.
@venenders170
Ай бұрын
@@michaelmccarstle4527I’m sorry but no they would not need a bigger budget for this show. There are shows with hour long episodes with more episodes in a season with smaller budgets than this show. The shows budget is already massive and respectfully what is on screen shows none of it so it’s less the team needs a bigger budget but rather they need to manage that budget far better than they have.
@thelodownshow313
Ай бұрын
Wow this discussion was so deep. Thanks guys
@zachmartin6519
Ай бұрын
So, Unknown Planet may not be Ach To, but if not then it is the Jakku to Ach To’s Tatooine. In any case I loved the Qimir and Osha stuff. If in the first half of the show he was mirroring Yoda on Dagobah, this episode they were mirroring Rey and Luke on Ach To in TLJ. When OSHA followed him to the pool for his bath I was getting vibes of Rey following Luke as he went about his morning routine. Then when they engage instead of doing what Luke did and trying withhold in order to reject Rey, the Stranger uses mystery and lack of answers to string Osha along.
@stubbywankenobi1
Ай бұрын
I see the Jedi as a noble purpose corrupted by the trappings of dogma and influence. They have strayed from the purpose of serving the force as individuals to protecting against the influence of the dark side as an order. Creating strict rules and guidelines that may or may not serve the force. The influence they wield, due to having no rival or peer to thin their ranks, has become directly tied to the political establishment. They can no longer make decisions about the force without considering the political implications first. They aren’t bad but they are no longer guided by the will of the force
@mrvoltar
Ай бұрын
Vader/Palpatine at the end of Kenobi was hilarious to me. Palpatine was jealous that Vader hated his ex more than him. Sith are weird. After this episode, I'm pretty sure any cameo from the sith master will be related to that grandstanding senator...maybe meeting with him or something. That legislation will pass and the sith will have tightened the vice/noose on the order. SCANDAL! SCANDAL I SAY!
@JSeed47
Ай бұрын
"emotionally nude is up there with emotional canon." XD a ForceCenter well said, Ken
@DerekwKimedit
Ай бұрын
I call this the BOM CHICKA WOWOW episode
@suzygirl1843
Ай бұрын
Men need to learn lessons from Qimir
@eduardoharpa8723
Ай бұрын
Loved this video. Great conversation! But can we for a moment state the obvious? Jedi have it really good. Like really good... Imean, Sol was probably involved with murdering that girl's family, and has lied about it for years. Knocks her out, ties her up, and informs her that she's gonna have to listen to everything he has to say, because... he's been thinking about this for a while... It's funny how everyone gives that a pass because Jedi are always good. As opposed to Sith who are always evil. It's also very likely that Sol and the other Jedi commited genocide... so why is he such a great guy? I don't see it. Is Sol the most evil? No, of course not. Bet he has/had good intentions... But a good guy? Seriously?... Highly doubt it.
@Vulcanerd
Ай бұрын
I think Osha and Mae flipping places was always intended with Osha taking place at Qimir’s right hand. My suspicion is another twist/reveal is coming other than Brendok. My suspicion is that Vernestra is Qimir’s Sith master who’s annoyed at Qimir for making a public mess risking the them being exposed prematurely. She’s been working hard to keep this event hush-hush and, by the end, will dispose of Sol, Mae and Qimir and takes Osha as her apprentice and burying this entire event under the rug with her power and they’ll vanish into the shadows until PT. All of this isn’t to say I disagree with you. The Sith are about manipulation, destruction and suffering through giving into your anger, suffering, sorrow, but for this narrative to square with the PT (and they may not), Sol, Mae and the rest have to be “take care of” and this entire sequence of events wiped from history. V is in the position to do this and has the power. Also, I’d rather that then some series of happy accidents.
@TheNamekianClown
Ай бұрын
What we really need is a Bathtime Stranger and Exquisite Pajamas Dooku 2-pack. On the lightwhip, they actually do have real leather whips in the Indiana Jones section of one of the shops in Disney World, which continues to shock me haha. They got rid of the Holy Grail, they don't have blasters, but they have a real leather whip.
@SpideySense62
Ай бұрын
Is it wrong to want a Congressional hearing episode? 😊 Venestra may not be Sith...but she seems suspicious.
@gsarngad
Ай бұрын
"Hey Mr. Shame, have you got a name; I don't feel like calling you buddy." - Chris Cornell
@cloverraven
Ай бұрын
There’s a spot with high dark side energy on Ach To
@alfje5492
Ай бұрын
I thought the reveal of this series was going to be Osha as the 'evil' twin, now it feels like Vernestra is being set up as the hidden Sith master... I'm starting to warm to this series and if it sticks the landing, I can finally move it from the mediocre to quite alright category.
@jcc9erz
Ай бұрын
The pause discussion reminds me of Eddie and the cruisers when wordman explains a caesura
@jeremypage3370
Ай бұрын
How about introducing a jedi ewok? Might as well...
@signaturefloors4288
Ай бұрын
I love you guys so much….but I’m really not sure I’m watching the same show There is no consistent tone…. characters make choices that make no sense and contradict themselves…. the episodes are way too short….
@jcc9erz
Ай бұрын
Do you guys think we will ever get a Star Wars series other than mando that is multi seasons. I’ve been wanting something more than one season offs where we can build connections a lil deeper with cast and stories
@BobbyM817
Ай бұрын
Yes. Andor and Ahsoka are getting another season. Plus, the way Leslye has talked about Acolyte, we could possibly get another season of that show as well.
@jcc9erz
Ай бұрын
@@BobbyM817 my personal hope was Kotor adaption to a series.
@cloverraven
Ай бұрын
Only episode Ive really liked so far.
@randyrodriguez2398
Ай бұрын
Wow, im new following you, even subscribed, enjoy a lot the positive way you take this series, but almost all the theories of today are terrible, lol... "in one final chapter Vern goes to the senate and exposes the sith with no proofs?" lol... i really hope all this interesting mysteries come to a coherent end, if there's a problem with this series is in my opinion the length and the number of chapters, everything seems rushed and at the end it can be not worthy, also the one chapter by week formtat goes against this kind of story, it's good for the weekly conflict in fandom, but i'm sure people would've liked more if they had not to wait to discover the hidden things, keep rocking and stay safe....
@ohimarc9983
Ай бұрын
What if sol is their father and they force ft him
@bunartist
Ай бұрын
I just read an interview with Lesyle Headland about Oshamir (Osha x Qimir ship) that was published today that brings alot of insight, worrying insight to be honest. Lesyle said that she ships Oshamir, and that Qimir is basically her avatar in the story. In another interview, she also said she channeled a lot of her own thoughts and feeling into him. This isn't an accusation or a condemnation, because writers can channel their feelings into villains without supporting their actions. But this insight, combined with the fact that she's apparently a fan of SW Legends media where Jedi-good and Sith-bad dichotomy is broken, and I'm nervous. I don't mind villain-protagonists with complicated moralities and sympathetic aspects, who are even justified at times, but I do need their stories to ultimately make it clear that they are evil, in the wrong, and this is not the path you should take in life. That this is the message viewers walk away with after the curtain closes. And in Star Wars, I feel the Jedi, for how flawed they are, perhaps incredibly so, are striving for good. Meanwhile the Sith's philosophies may feel convincing, but they lead to evil. They are evil. So where is Lesyle Headland going with this story ultimately, in this season and beyond? How I feel about this project will depend greatly on what the answer to this question is.
@alfje5492
Ай бұрын
Sadly, people will read their own version into a story anyway. A while ago I had a very interesting conversation with a MAGA-head who adored Andor as it reflected his struggle against a dictatorial government and why he should take up arms to protect his freedoms!
@lunarmodule6419
Ай бұрын
At least in ep3, the singing witches were fun lol. Ep6? NOTHING happened. Boooring. Osha is an non-hero - she does nothing...
@venenders170
Ай бұрын
I’m sorry but I just don’t see what you guys see in this show. To say that 95% of this episode was good and that the team behind this show definitely know what they’re doing and going rings very hollow for me. There’s so many little problems that keep mounting up each episode that just make me not enjoy this series and question the team behind this shows competence. Osha ready to have her own sister killed because she killed 2 Jedi but Qimir who killed 8 Jedi including 2 of her friends and tried to kill her,Sol and her sister and is the one who set her sister on this path gets a pass because he’s naked and hot? She’s with him for less than a day and is already starting to be curious about his teachings and ways despite all he’s done? Venestra and the other Jedi arrive just as Sol leaves and quickly find the bodies and yet there is zero reaction or emotion from either of them, and the fact that collecting the bodies had to be ADR in otherwise they would have just left them there. Bazel instead of going straight to Sol to tell him Mae is a different person by a myriad of options instead opts to try to fight the criminal the Jedi were after who killed other Jedi? Mae constantly switching between attempting to kill Sol to im gonna wait and see how this goes is only rivaled by the number of times Sol says I’m gonna tell you everything that happened on Brendok. Sol not being able to tell it’s Mae from just sensing her or feeling her killer intent, him not seeing the tattoo on her forehead or how her mannerisms are different from Osha. Also Mae having not seen Osha in 16 years but spends 5 minutes with her is enough for her to know enough of her mannerisms to copy and fool Sol. Why doesn’t Mae try to kill Bazel he knows she’s not Osha and would break her ruse by telling Sol, she could have easily done that when he was trying to fight her. How all of this is just fine for you guys because it’s Star Wars is just a mystery to me.
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