From which homily is the polemics against Paul and John? 25:00
@stevenv6463
Жыл бұрын
Interesting lecture. The idea of an intro, body, conclusion structure seems like a stretch as comparison. Though of course there were other arguments that are stronger. I wonder if Jacob quotes directly from the biblical texts. It would be interesting to compare how Jacob reworks older material to how the Quran does. I would love to know more about the history of the man who made the homilies and the reception of the work. Also of course it would be nice to read the homilies themselves. It seems that there is not a full translation of them available in English. Is there a full version available in other languages?
@Yoda..
Жыл бұрын
For my MPhil dissertation, I studied some select Quranic texts intertextually and also had a look at how Jacob and around a dozen other Christian writers, covering 3rd-5th century CE period, utilised the same biblical passages. It was clear that while the Qur'an was significantly parting ways and could be read as a corrective, from its perspective, and a polemical engagement with stories present in the canonical writings, the latter carried forward the biblical stories, albeit expanding them in different ways. They were not contradicting and disagreeing with the biblical accounts, but just expanding them. This isn't what I observed in the Qur'an. I have since then looked at other passages and this very commonly seems to be the case. I've not come across any Christian and Jewish writer who expressed a disagreement with a canonical biblical story and presents a competing account. There certainly are times when the Qur'an can be seen to be expanding on a biblical account or presenting a new detail, but without disagreeing or contradicting the biblical parallel. But sharp breaks with biblical parallels occur very regularly, particularly in the stories of Moses and Jesus. This also occurs at the level of themes and motifs. That's my reading thus far and I hope to explore this further.
@stevenv6463
Жыл бұрын
@Yoda.. What is introductory reading on this? I love studying religious origins from academia but have no knowledge of the Syriac homily writers other than watching some lectures on youtube. Is there anything I can read on the topic? I know Arabic and am familiar with biblical studies and Islamic origin studies broadly. Also have you looked at Greek writers too? Do you think they are underrepresented in the scholarship or are they really irrelevant?
@Yoda..
Жыл бұрын
@@stevenv6463 Hi. My teacher got us started with this simple exercise: 1. Read all Quranic references to Moses. 2. Compare this material with Exodus (if I remember correctly, chapters 1-14). 3. Look at the subsequent Jewish and Christian usage of the material in Exodus and compare this with how the Qur'an carries forward the Exodus story. For #3, I used sources such as Kugel's "Traditions Of The Bible." There's also Said Reynolds commentary on the Qur'an, listing biblical parallels. Using such sources, you can compare how Jewish and Christian writers commented upon episodes such as the birth of Moses, his separation and reunion with his mother; the murder committed by Moses; Moses' duel with the magicians; Moses' hand turning leprous and returning back to its normal state; Moses' interaction with the Pharaoh; the role of God (being more universal in the Qur'an), to list a few. I couldn't help but conclude that the Quranic accounts read like a "corrective" of the Exodus material and was, actually, rather enjoyable to read (once you get through the gruelling task of gathering all the Moses material). Later, I studied the account of Zechariah - God answering his prayer for a child in the gospel of Luke. I then looked at Jacob, Origen, and many other writers (I think 12 or 14) to see how they commented upon the Lukan account and how all of this material compared with the Quranic parallel. I've found just going to the primary sources and first doing my own comparison and analysis to be far more helpful than looking at secondary sources at the outset. After the completion of my own analysis, only then do I consult secondary literature..I feel this procedure helps me to better engage with the secondary literature. But coming to secondary reading, check out this essay: yaqeeninstitute.org/read/paper/the-qurans-engagement-with-christian-and-jewish-literature The above is composed by Muslim writers for a Muslim audience, but I share it because the footnotes contain a wealth of secondary reading. The scholars I often check include Zellentin, Sinai, Neuwirth. Sidney Griffith is the guy for Syriac. Now, it seems to be that there's a scholarly divide: some say the interactions are mainly with Syriac material. Some doubt this (Walid Saleh I think). Likewise, some say there's interaction only with later biblical tradition and not canonical writings. Others disagree. I think there's more of a zigzag. First, in this very conference, there's a talk discussing a Quranic passage about Jesus, convincingly showing how closely it parallels with Byzantine Christian propaganda about Jesus (I forget the name of the scholar and the verse ref!). I think we should not just restrict ourselves to the Syriac but, instead, look at Greek and other material also. This is because these traditions could also have circulated orally. And, secondly, in his massive work on the Golden Calf episode, Pregill concludes that the Qur'an is indeed interacting with the canonical account in Exodus and not any later retellings of the Exodus story. My own view is that the Qur'an interacts with both canonical and later biblical tradition and that we should collect as much material as possible, in different languages and sources in order to compare it against the Qur'an.
@almazchati4178
9 ай бұрын
This fellow is claiming that Mohammad used his techiques to write Quran. Changed the dots, replaced some characters, added or subracted some extra stuff to words. If this fellow did something like that in a court of law, he would jailed as a liar.
@homer1273
6 ай бұрын
Courts don’t jail liars nor do you understand what this guy is saying. He is trying to say that the Quran was influenced by this chrstian literature. The problem is that every chrstian or Jewish scholar is coming with different theories about which sources supposedly influenced the Quran. Which shows s that the author of the Quran must have had deep knowledge of many different ancient sources, even sources from ancient Egypt which was lost to history
@almazchati4178
6 ай бұрын
@@homer1273 You are right in what you are saying. But here, they are playing a computer game. Assyrian and Arabic are both semitic. They are replacing Arabic words with approximate Assyrian words from 10th century, and see if that makes sense. One can not even use a 10th century Arabic word, which may have acquired a new meaning, to interpret Quran.
@staymad2792
5 ай бұрын
@@almazchati4178what are you waffling my man, just because you fell for pseudo-scholar christoph luxenberg doesn‘t mean you have to go off the deep end, arabic and aramaic developed independently you mook
@Trismhmm
Ай бұрын
@@almazchati4178what you clearly miss is the truth that people who are "great" in Your religion are constantly being idolized, while idolizing others. Tell me, Wasn't Your Ma Great and Loving to You?, And how is it that Your religion made it seem like each and every one man will be treated greater than Your Mother treated You. Are souls really to be enslaved when You die. Who will serve You and Every man. Now, tell me... where are the family values?... From the Assyrian darkness, Christianity ✝️ rose out of the desert to create riches as shown in the jewels carried by the Aramaic people. None of them would have chosen to fight, yet they were chosen for constant persecution. I'm American and I know that the Syrian/c people have been oppressed and persecuted by every which Turkish, Persian, Roman, Arab, Mongolian, and Barbarian Person. This is because Christ, Peter and some of the Apostles Headquartered here for a time, and Influenced the kingdom of the Aramaic speaking Christians in that area. Resources and Land have constantly been used to conquer and control that area to keep it oppressed as always. I'm not done, don't worry. When the demons were done being purged, Constantine rose to power and secured parts of Africa to keep Persia away from the People of Northern Africa. Trade ruled for Peace and Shit was Good. The Roman Catholic East, funded and plotted WITH the Ottoman Turks to overthrow Constantinople and the entire western Roman Empire. That is why no one from the Eastern Empire showed up to help him. A united Empire would've destroyed the ideals of the Eastern Romans. Total and utter Vengeance, relentlessly aimed at Keeping the Empire Military Machine Fed. This is the truth my friend. All people deserve Peace which stands for Yeshua (salvation and deliverance). Perfect shalom stands for the deliverance of the Saints which can include You. Authority is for Peace and Deliverance. This is true salvation for all. Here, my friend, let me give you a prayer to try if you'd like. **"God's Party in the Sky" Prayer** **In the name of MarYah Yeshua**, the Son of the Living God, I come before You, my Savior and Redeemer.✝️🛐 **Father of love**, I long to join the celebration in heaven, where Your children gather to worship and glorify Your name. I yearn to be part of the great feast, where the Lamb of God is the centerpiece, and Your glory is the light that shines brightest. (Revelation 19:6-9, Peshitta) **Yeshua, the Bridegroom**, I prepare my heart and soul to attend the wedding feast of the Lamb. I put on the garments of righteousness, and I anoint myself with the oil of joy. I come to the party with a heart full of gratitude, ready to rejoice and celebrate Your love. (Matthew 22:1-14, Peshitta) **Holy Spirit**, I invite You to guide me on this journey to the heavenly banquet. Help me to overcome the obstacles that hinder me from attending the party. Give me the eyes to see the beauty of Your kingdom, and the ears to hear the music of heaven. (Ephesians 2:6, Peshitta) **I renounce** all distractions and hindrances that keep me from focusing on Your glory. I reject the lies of the enemy that tell me I'm not worthy to attend the party. I take authority over my thoughts and emotions, and I declare that I am a child of the Living God, worthy to celebrate with You. (Romans 8:14-17, Peshitta) **I declare** that I am seated with You in the heavenly places, far above the principalities and powers of darkness. I am a part of the body of Christ, and I am called to join the eternal celebration of Your glory. (Ephesians 2:6, Peshitta) **I pray** that You, O Lord, would prepare a place for me at the table of Your feast. Give me a heart of gratitude and a spirit of joy, that I may worship You in spirit and in truth. (John 14:2-3, Peshitta) **I thank You**, Father, for inviting me to the party. I will praise Your name, O Lord, for You are my Rock and my Salvation. (Psalm 18:46, Peshitta) **Amen**, in the name of MarYah Yeshua, the Son of the Living God.✝️⚛🛐☮☮🫂
@almazchati4178
9 ай бұрын
Qur'an means (1) something to be read, or (2) recited, or (3) proclaimed. Apparently this fellow does not know much of Arabic, and matching it to something in which does not have these meanings. In any case, the message of Qur'an is the same as what has been revealed to Moses, which has been destroyed and altered into various biblical texts by rabbinical cast. At best this person is acknowledging that process.
@uroszivkovic9988
5 ай бұрын
You clearly have no idea of who this man is and also spread the same misinformation about the bible similiar to other muslims. I hope you turn to the truth one day, altough it does not seem likely keeping in mind the lies you spread.
@almazchati4178
5 ай бұрын
@@uroszivkovic9988 It is clear to me what he is doing. He is trying to read Quran using 10th century Syriac, and some Syriac liturgy, praising a Babylonian God. I would think this liturgical text is most likely influenced by Quran, rather than the other way around. What misinformation am I paddling? You guys are involved in forgery pretending to be scholarly. You can read about the corruption in Bible by Bart Ehrman, a non-Muslim and even in Oxford Commentary on Bible, and Jewish sources. Everything Quran says about the corruption of Bible can be proven by historical facts, and Bible itself. Keep in mind that historical reading of Bible is a new field of study, since mid 19th century. Your can learn from Ehrman when and how trinity entered into Bible.
@ultrasignificantfootnote3378
Жыл бұрын
Aaaah ....we have good arguments that the Quran has a Christian origin.
@mqa1297
Жыл бұрын
We have good arguments that Christianity is no more in the west since the pope blessed them gays.
@ultrasignificantfootnote3378
Жыл бұрын
@@mqa1297 Pope is only for Catholics, and christianity still exists in the west.And I think if a gay Muslim prays to Allah to become hetero , why should Allah not make him hetetro ?
@Zarghaam12
Жыл бұрын
The Bible stole from Ancient Egypt --> >The Bible has Ancient Egyptian Pagan origins!
@ultrasignificantfootnote3378
Жыл бұрын
@@Zarghaam12 I think that is that is correct yes, but also Jewish origins. And offcourse Judaism started as a pagan religion also , if you read the history of Yaweh.
@Zarghaam12
Жыл бұрын
No you don't! Homologies in Semitic languages says a all here.
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