24:30 boys talk for 20 minutes, say nothing. Grace comes in and "Shard is chunk of gods power. Dawnshard is chunk of gods will." Boom. Edit: She keeps doing it.
@Talsar624
3 жыл бұрын
The dawnshards are LIVE, LAUGH, LOVE, and uh CHANGE
@brianpclare
2 жыл бұрын
Change: Cultivation, Ruin, Cultivation, Invention Live: Preservation, Autonomy, Honor, Endowment Laugh: Whimsy, Ambition, ?? Love: Devotion, Mercy, Odium, Valor Honestly not the worst possible arrangement. Laugh is the hardest one to find shards for, Love actually makes sense
@TayNez63
3 жыл бұрын
Gator girl stunned Eric with her....Grace
@glitchcast4
3 жыл бұрын
lol
@elArqui22
3 жыл бұрын
Just like warbreaker: 1º Intent: you imagine how it will work, what it wil do 2º Command: you give the order with a specific phrase. 3º Investiture: is given with the Command for it to wrok, that`s why the sleepless dont want her to bond with a spren, because she needs investiture to make it work
@Trisjack20
3 жыл бұрын
Sounds like sense
@Buphido
7 ай бұрын
And, along those lines, I believe that the Shards are the Intent of Adonalsium, the Dawnshards are the Command of Adonalsium, and the entirety of the Spiritual Realm is the Investiture of Adonalsium. It also follows the pattern; Investiture was not split, so it consists of 1 big chunk, Command was split into four more parts than Investiture, so 4, and Intent was split into four more parts than Command, so 16.
@joaofarias9986
3 жыл бұрын
The Dawnshards are the Cosmere's Infinity Stones, but more religious(ish) than sci-fi(ish)
@Trisjack20
3 жыл бұрын
I don't think so. The 16 Shards are more like them, recepticals of power. The Dawnshards are something different again. My opinion only.
@carlsmith4568
3 жыл бұрын
I personally believe that the Dawnshard existed BEFORE Adonalsium did. Primal concepts/commands that Adonalsium found. Tools that Adonalsium used in order to channel his investiture into creation. Adonalsium is investiture, pure investiture and nothing else. Only once he obtained the Dawnshards did he posses the ability to have a purpose. The reason I believe this is because if Ado created the Dawnshards instead of vice versa, then how could they destroy him? How does one destroy God, using tools that God created? Dawnshards are not possible to conceptualize. They are fundamental concepts that give all purpose to the universe. The name Dawnshard was simply given to them. This is my theory.
@Haxerous
3 жыл бұрын
You can destroy a God if a God wants to be destroyed, especially given the role Intent plays in the Cosmere.
@lukeatkinson9727
3 жыл бұрын
Also man has been doing this for years, take the handgun for instance! We created this with the sole purpose of destroying! X
@billie6547
3 жыл бұрын
I think this as well. I think the Dawnshards were not created by Adonalsium, though I do agree with the other replys that if they are created they can still be used to "kill" it. But I did interpret the text to mean that they existed already. Like you said primal concepts.
@EvenGodsDie
3 жыл бұрын
"if Ado created the Dawnshards instead of vice versa, then how could they destroy him?" Adonalsium was never destroyed. You even say that Adonalsium is investiture, and clearly all of the investiture still exists.
@EvenGodsDie
3 жыл бұрын
@@billie6547 Concepts cannot exist, without a conceptualizer. It seems that Adonalsium had the intent to create the material world, and imposed his will upon existence to make it happen. The Dawnshards are like a lens that focus/shape the intentions of Adonalsium into reality.
@markd.9538
3 жыл бұрын
My theory: I think the dawnshards are safe Shard “containers” - and if there are 4 dawnshards, then each can hold / handle 4 shards of adonalsium each - possibly without “ascending” the dawnshard holder (at all). I think Hoid gave up his dawnshard because he wants/needs access to investiture from all 16 shards. Accessing the magic systems of all shards suits his purposes (whatever they may be). I think to re-assemble adonalsium (if that is even possible), you would need to unite all 4 dawnshards (each holding 4 shards of adonalsium each). Thats my best guess based on current information anyway.
@kbea121
3 жыл бұрын
The Dawnshard novella is so exciting because it's like we've been staring at a half finished puzzle trying to figure out what the big picture is, and Branderson just handed us a piece with face on it but we have no idea where it goes
@edelopo
3 жыл бұрын
1:23:05 I disagree with Evgeni, you DO need power to swear oaths, and that power comes from the spren. You can have the right words (Command) and mean them (Intent), but if there is no spren to form the bond you don't become a Radiant.
@tanyam928
3 жыл бұрын
Someone asked Brandon if one Dawnshard is still different from the rest after the events of the story. He said yes. So it being stored in a mural was not what was different. I think what is different is it has gained sapience/awareness. And I think it was used in the creation of Nightblood so it is the Dawnshard of Destroy but was given a more specific directive of destroy evil. It didn't work how they wanted. But now the sword has gained awareness and is becoming more sentient and drawing in more and more investiture so it can be self directed in how it goes about carrying out the command
@cameronmoylan
3 жыл бұрын
if Nightblood is a dawnshard that will be such a brilliantly infuriating subversion - bc I heard the term dawnshard and was like oh ok like shardblade so a cool sword, maybe an honorblade. Then realized they were definitely not swords so if it comes full circle I'm gonna explode
@elinorth7920
3 жыл бұрын
I was going to say this made no sense due to timelines not matching. Then I remembered that the scouring was only a few hundred years ago . So you could be right but I think it is a fairly large reach. This is due to the lack of reference to some outside power during the awakening of night blood in warbreaker
@tanyam928
3 жыл бұрын
@@elinorth7920 we don't know much about what went into making Nightblood. But Shardcast has gone on about it theorizing that something extra went into making it more powerful. Shard intervention or something. I think they talk about on one of the Nightblood Shardcasts
@thekwjiboo
Жыл бұрын
Well if you read closely, it's said that the mural showing the sun in 4 pieces, that they were "nearly" symmetrical.
@thekwjiboo
Жыл бұрын
Not nearly, mostly. Sorry for the additional comment, my KZitem freaks out if I try to respond to a response or edit my responses.
@guitoscano
2 жыл бұрын
Also, there’s a moment in RoW in which Kaladin tried to use a Reverse Lashing and realizes that it wasn’t enough to just think of what he wanted as an objective, but that he had to think specifically what he wanted the power to do. His intent was to get that done, the command was the actual “how” of it.
@DwaitBhatt
3 жыл бұрын
About the First Gem, I think it used to hold the Dawnshard, but once Hoid got it, he absorbed it and became the Dawnshard, rendering the Topaz useless. Hence his quote that he was named after a rock that “became completely worthless for my wearing it.”
@Trisjack20
3 жыл бұрын
Very nice. Though I would prefer it if he were not a Dawnshard and never had been.
@edwardguest1404
11 ай бұрын
@@Trisjack20we know he was a dawnshard. Hence his immortality
@Trisjack20
11 ай бұрын
@@edwardguest1404 I agree that is confirmed as of the Sunlit man (The only cannon confirmation of that statement) but my point is not that he is not one, it is that I would prefer it if he was not and never had been. It is now clear (As of this latest release) that is definitely did hold it. I still think it's a shame, would have preferred a different answer but that's the story and I am sure it will be an excellent one. He could have been immortal for many many reasons. In the Cosmere immortality is not exactly rare.
@edwardguest1404
11 ай бұрын
@@Trisjack20 it has been confirmed in WOB before however if you mean in text explicitly sure. That’s fair if you don’t like it you don’t like it
@Trisjack20
11 ай бұрын
@@edwardguest1404 Absolutely, not denying it is definitely the reality :) it clearly clearly is!
@maggiecearley3061
3 жыл бұрын
Grace is a glorious 5head. Dawnshards are cognitive will; radiant oaths are commands. Beautiful.
@ilregiallo4151
3 жыл бұрын
My theory: Ok, so there should be four Dawnshards, the foundamental Commands/Words that created the universe, and everything in the Cosmere has to follow their will. According to the mural, it seems that every Dawnshard has 4 Shards related to it: I think their Intents are different ways to follow this command. For example, we saw the Dawnshard of CHANGE. There are 3 Shards related to change: Ruin, Cultivation, Preservation (to preserve something, you have to change something else, something get changed anyway). Their intents are different ways to CHANGE things. There should be one more. I strongly believe that another DS could be UNITY (or UNITE!). There are 3 known Shards that want to bring people together: Honor, Devotion, and Dominion. You can bind people together through oaths/paths/laws etc., through force, or through love. We still miss one in this group. (By the way, I think this DS is not only about relatonships between people, but is the law that keep the unverse together: all the forces like fundamental interactions of physics, ore the bond between the 3 Realms could be products of this big divine command) (I'm not a physicist, so I could be very wrong about this) Another possibile Dawshard could be LIVE (related to Endowment, Odium, maybe Ambition?).
@ianeggleston9991
3 жыл бұрын
I had the same idea, though I desagree about preservation because he is the polar opposite. I was trying to come up with 2 more shards that could relate to change. I came up with Innovation, empowering others to create/cause change. The other that I doubt much more but could work is Chaos (maybe an implementation of this could be Luck/Fouchen, forgive spelling), the idea of random or impartial change.
@petermcgill5365
3 жыл бұрын
I like this
@maxwelljohnson5221
3 жыл бұрын
Ugh I just have a problem with preservation in change 🤦
@djbrouwer7712
3 жыл бұрын
Endowment could be in change as well, as to endow could be used as a synonym for give, or gift.
@ilregiallo4151
3 жыл бұрын
@@maxwelljohnson5221 I know it sounds counterintuitive, but trust me, it makes sense. I had the idea while I was reading Warbreaker the first time (Vasher reflects about how often preserving something means destroying something else). Think about this: if you are a drifter on a desert island, how do you survive? You have to build a shelter, you have to hunt animals, you have to burn wood to make a fire. To preserve yourself you have to destroy and to create. This is also a very common idea in eastern religions, particurarly in Induism: Creation, Preservation and Destruction are put together in the Trimurti. And there is one thing we know: Ruin and Preservation are two sides of the same coin. They stay together. Another way to intend Preservation is: "Ok, everything must change sooner or later, but for the moment this things won't change". Preservation could be about redirecting change. The illusion of not-changing things.
@markmittelbach7975
3 жыл бұрын
So I wanted stronger words and verb commands. So my theory was "Be", "Change", "Experience", and "believe". Be is enduement, preservation and dominion. Change is ruin and cultivation. Experience is Autonomy and odium. Believe is honor and devotion.
@Trisjack20
3 жыл бұрын
nice thought
@HeadCannon19
3 жыл бұрын
If those are the four Dawnshards, then I would sort the shards as: Be: Preservation, Dominion, Endowment, Autonomy Change: Ruin, Cultivation, Invention, +1 Experience: Odium, Devotion, Whimsy, +1 Believe: Honor, Valor, Mercy, Ambition These aren't necessarily perfect, and some of the Shards could fit in multiple categories
@mac5565
3 жыл бұрын
I see a Command as purely being the button you press in order to actualise an Intent, whether "magical", in our eyes, or not. The Intent would then be less a specific plan to be carried out magically, but more of a desire for a certain effect. Like how a Windrunner's Intent in lashing something upwards is not literally "temporarily rewrite this item's spiritweb so that its Connection to the ground is nullified", but simply "lash this item upwards". So it is the Command, the purposeful mental effort, that carries out this Intent through the Nahel bond. The Commands that are possible for a person to give successfully are dependent on how invested/sentient they are (inanimate objects can do a lot less than normal people, who can do a lot less than magic users, etc.) as well as on the magic system they're bound by. I would then call a Dawnshard not literally being a Command, as Nikli puts it, but the embodiment of Adonalsium's original Command, which opens use of that Command type (usually only possible for Adonalsium itself) to anyone regardless of how invested/sentient they are. However, the "magic system" Rysn is currently bound by is effectively real-world physics, which will not allow for the Dawnshard to really do anything.
@ianglazko3256
3 жыл бұрын
I'll be honest, when I was reading there was a point where I just started laughing because I realized that you were going to have to admit that the Dawnshard was in the undersea cavern in Aimia!
@geosustento8894
3 жыл бұрын
Am I the only one who feels this whole Daenerys Targaryen realness towards Rysn? EDIT: Also this reminds me of Rincewind and the eighth magic.
@stviz87
3 жыл бұрын
Heck yeah, can't wait for Rysn to fly on the back of Chiri Chiri yelling Drakaris to the fused
@justinvinson2266
3 жыл бұрын
What if the 4 are: Exist (from nothing came everything, all matter) Change (allowing all matter to have potential, positive, negative, and neutral, develope or regress) Time (giving all matter and change reference) Connection (giving all matter, change, and time some sort of representation in all three realms) Fun vid, keep up the good work!
@ceadda_said
2 жыл бұрын
Survive.
@haun0905
3 жыл бұрын
If Preservation would be under the “change” dawnshard, would Autonomy be under the theoretical “connect/bind” dawnshard that Grace brings up? Preservation is not changing. Is Autonomy not connecting?
@QRebound
3 жыл бұрын
Rereading Oathbringer, and I wonder if it's relevant that when Shallan is imitating a spren in Kholinar, she is imitating a Mandra.
@TheJedimaster95
3 жыл бұрын
My analogy for Intent and Command: -an arrow, which represent the Archer Intent of harming is target -the bow, which is the Command, meaning the medium that enacts the intention.
@F3d4ykin
3 жыл бұрын
Couldnt it also be that the Intent is to slay with the arrow & the arrow itself is the Command? I love your thinking!
@k-majik
3 жыл бұрын
Perhaps a Command is 'what' you want to do, but Intent is 'why' you want to do it?
@elArqui22
3 жыл бұрын
I guess the intent is the "what", what you imagine, and the command is the order, like on Warbreaker
@trolledchaos6531
3 жыл бұрын
Hey so just to add to Argent’s theory that the dawn shard is like storing breaths in an object: after Rysn receives the dawn shard and she is talking to Drlwan(?is that his name?) on the wandersail and she notes that the colors in the room are suddenly more vivid, like how breaths do. Just a thought, anyways, I love your podcast and I’m very excited for you guys to explain rhythm of war to me after I finish it
@guitoscano
2 жыл бұрын
Have you read Harry Potter? There’s a moment when Harry tries to torture an enemy with the Cruciatus curse. However, he can’t because he doesn’t REALLY wants to hurt her that bad, he doesn’t have it in him. So the curse (Crucio!) would be the command, whereas the willingness to hurt the other person would be the intent. I see this as a similar thing in the Cosmere.
@17thShard
2 жыл бұрын
I like this. -Eric
@Wilks228
3 жыл бұрын
There is a lot I also don’t hate in this.
@joshuafischer684
3 жыл бұрын
I think you focus way too much on visualization. A better way to think of it would be understanding. You have to understand the Command and Intent in order to perform an action.
@17thShard
3 жыл бұрын
Okay sure but where does the understanding go then? :P -Eric
@joshuafischer684
3 жыл бұрын
@@17thShard The understanding would be used (unconsciously or consciously, doesn't matter) in performing whatever action. Its not really a tangible concept like Investiture or anything. Also, this is splitting hairs arguing over terminology instead of anything relevant.
@Shaz1993xoxo
Жыл бұрын
In listening to your conversation about the 4 dawnshards I'm leaning towards 3 being connected to the realms and an outlier. Think (cognitive realm) Live (physical realm) Connect (spiritual realm) Change (outlier)
@e443productions9
10 ай бұрын
I think Grace had it mostly figured out lol. Y’all over complicating it for real. I think it’s something like: Command = the literal words or symbols that carry a specific meaning associated with an action (i.e. saying “fetch keys”, or writing an Aeon) Intent = what your will is behind that specific action = visualization The Dawnshards are literally the words Aldonalsium spoke to create the universe, and becoming one of the dawnshards means you know what his specific commands were. It’s kinda like how there were key words to control the lifeless in Warbreaker, and the same thing with Knights knowing the exact words to say at the right moment. It’s the words. However to be able to use those commands you have to have actual power to make into reality, which is why Rysn probably can’t destroy the whole universe. I’d wager that you need power/investiture to be able to use a Dawnshard, and have a specific Intention behind its use. Like you have to know what you can do with it in order to visualize it.
@SarcasmFiend23
Жыл бұрын
On command and intent, allow me to stray into an extended analogy to explain my thoughts: To make an internal combustion engine turn over and keep running, you need three things: air, spark, and fuel. Spark ignites fuel, air feeds the flames, boom, ignition. To make AWAKENING happen, you need three things: breath, command, and color. In my mind, breath is obviously the air that feeds the flame, color is the fuel, the substance burnt away without remnant, and the command is the spark, it’s the thing that actually starts the fire. Okay, cool. But what makes the spark happen in a car? Really, two things: power and the specifications of the spark plug to fit that engine. So you have two parts of the command in awakening, the power, or the verbalization, and the specification, or the intent. That intent, through that lens, feels like it has to include the visualization aspect. It feels like picturing the outcome would fall into the design of the spark plug, rather than in the power source being applied to it. In listening to you all discuss, it got me thinking so I wanted to write it out. It feels like it fits to me
@phillip5084
3 жыл бұрын
I keep thinking of the dawnshard being the 4 ways to break adonalsium, each dawnshard breaks it & categorized it in half somehow (2^4=16). So each of the 16 shards fall into categories of splits broken by the different dawnshards what all of the splits are though is the hard point. Another way to say this each shard isn’t categorized into groups of 4 in 1 dawnshard, but instead more like a tree where each level of branch is a dawnshard breaking point.
@Chirag259
3 жыл бұрын
Didn't that match the mural in Elantris in the room in the library leading to the perpedicularity on Sel? It similarly depicted an Elantrian falling through the blue disk with light on the other side.
@sflytal
3 жыл бұрын
What if, instead of "protect" as a Dawnshard, it's "Survive"
@helplessblobfish3935
3 жыл бұрын
That could mean Kelsier holds a dawnshard!
@benbratetich1409
3 жыл бұрын
@@helplessblobfish3935 I like that a lot because Keliser is hinted to being the leader of the Ghostbloods, Lord of Scars.
@DavidDcruz
3 жыл бұрын
With regards to Intent and Command, I think while Awakening Nightblood, the Command to "Destroy evil" but without a well defined Intent (with understanding of a deity) makes Nightblood confused about what is evil and what he's supposed to destroy.
@ceadda_said
2 жыл бұрын
Reminds me of a primary concern about our own potential for the same thing with an Artificial Super Intelligence, not comprehending the commands given to an ASI could mirror the nightblood command to destroy evil. Actually it's almost exactly like that huh, I wonder whether this is what's going on with the lore in the series.
@geosustento8894
3 жыл бұрын
OMG I WAS WAITING FOR THIS
@jake61494
3 жыл бұрын
When the WOB says the weapon used to kill Adonalsium was "expended" it could just mean that the people holding the Dawnshards (which you'd call Dawnshards themselves) died in the process of the Shattering. And while the people died, the remnents (the 4 Commands) remained. This would imply the Dawnshards were different people than the 16 Vessels. which I don't know if we actually know for sure. And also maybe the one different Dawnshard is Hoid, who somehow survived being used in the Shattering due to the nature of the Command he held (survival or protection or w.e). He has since given it up, somewhere along the way.
@petermcgill5365
3 жыл бұрын
That’s cool I didn’t think that hoid might be a/was a dawnshard
@sotek2345
3 жыл бұрын
I think Ryan went though 2 stages that lead her to the Dawnshard. First, her actions in the Reshi isles identified her as a potential and Chiri-Chiri went with her. Then, she successfully embraced Change (accepting her disability - regrowth can't heal it). This made her viable for the Dawnshard which is why only she feels the mural.
@jake61494
3 жыл бұрын
I like "Survive" as one of the commands, rather than "Protect". If I'm trying to think of 4 core "ideas/instincts" you want to build into all of creation. "Change" - the ability to grow, evolve, adapt. "Survive" - The instincts to find food, to flee, to fight, to not just lie down and starve to death. Maybe the desire to procreate falls here too. Uhmmm. Those 2 are as far as I got. As for Command verse Intent, I pretty much just agree with Argent. Command is nothing but words, or an order. "Fetch Keys" is just words. I don't think "Intent" is the "how do you want me to go about this" though like you suggested. I think Intent is more of having an understanding of what it means to fetch keys. So if you had the right level of intent and understanding, and gave the Command to find something, the awakened object would be able to go around the world searching for this object. Similarly, you'd need understanding of the universe to make changes on a large scale, like you said. Can't change a planet in orbit without an understanding of what orbit is, where the planet currently is, where you want it to be, what does it mean to move it...etc. So I like the idea that Rysn can't do any of this without access to Investiture. If she had Investiture, she could Command Change in things that she has enough of an understanding of, and an understanding of what it is she wants to do. But you'd need the expanded mind/understanding of a Diety (or Shard) to fully make use of such a Command
@ElijahStormblessed
3 жыл бұрын
Kelsier the Dawnshard of Survival confirmed?
@thepocketboy
3 жыл бұрын
I think survive is too specific. I like "Persist" That seems better to me and survive still falls under the umbrella of persist, protection and preservation.
@genznnGaming
3 жыл бұрын
Dawnshards = The most important words a Man can say, is this what Gavilar was referencing to ? Did he know about Dawnshards ?
@Trisjack20
3 жыл бұрын
Could be but I still think for him it was the immortal words. The oaths of thr Knights Radient.
@sflytal
3 жыл бұрын
I think Rysn was able to Change what another wanted. What they needed. Because she was able to convince Nikli to change how they protected the Dawnshard
@ceadda_said
2 жыл бұрын
Nice observation!!!
@AikenFrost
3 жыл бұрын
Let me drop my hot take in support of Ian's: Dawnshard isn't Investiture at all, they are explicitly Commands. And that's why Nikkli say Rysn had to agree to never bond a Spren. Because if she does bond one, she will get investiture she needs to ACTIVATE AND USE the Command/Dawnshard. Taking from Dresden Files, a Dawnshard is more akin to a Mantle.
@archvenison563
3 жыл бұрын
I think that Intent is what you want to do, investiture is a power source, and the Command is what lets you use Investiture to achieve your Intent. How Commands work is different for each magic system, while Intent is basically the same ("this is what I want to happen"). So for Radiants, the Commands are the oaths. A Radiant can do lots of things with lots of Intents, but if they go against their oaths (like Kaladin in WoR) they lose access to the surges. In Awakening the Command is the spoken (or thought) bit, while the Intent is whatever specifically you want to happen. In Allomancy the Command is the metal, and the Intent is whatever specifically you want to happen. In AonDor the Command is the Aon and the Intent is... well you get the picture.
@firstofthemoon
3 жыл бұрын
Do we have a confirmation that Adonalsium was somewhat invested in Yolen? because for me, it wouldn't make sense that the ultimate God of the Universe would be invested in a planet. That raises the question that haunts me: Did the use of the four Dawnshards need a part of Adonalsium (from the physical and cognitive realm, not the spiritual) to be located around Yolen? or it was as simple as to use the commands in the right way, without having to play around with those concepts?
@aprils9178
3 жыл бұрын
Question: does Wit have the same goals as the the hoardlings????
@aprils9178
3 жыл бұрын
Follow up question: Does Wit now possess a dawnshard???
@Melancholy_Scholar
3 жыл бұрын
Perhaps the first mural depicts a dawnshard-empowered use of the transportation surge, presumably used to come to Roshar.
@Algafixx
3 жыл бұрын
Do we know who were the Dawnshards (possibly one was Hoid) when Adonalsium was killed? Did they change a Dawnshard for a shard? If not, we are looking for (possibly) 4 people present in the shattering that didn't take a shard but were willing to kill Adonalsium.
@isaacschwartz1257
3 жыл бұрын
Who says you can't hold both. I figure Odium had one at one point. That would explain how he was able to fight and kill two other Shards at once over on Sel. It would also explain why he's having trouble this time if Honor had the Unity Dawnshard and killing Honor weakened Odium enough that he had to pursue the long game strategy with the desolations.
@maxwelljohnson5221
3 жыл бұрын
Someone help me relate command and intent to mistborn. When you burn the metal that is command and what you want it to do is intent? Or what about Elend consuming the bead of leraisium? Is that the command or the intent? He was barely even conscious.
@tylerhadlock5062
3 жыл бұрын
I would say that the command is the burning of the metal. As most of the time before it becomes instinctual your commanding the investiture to flow through you by burning the metal. And the intent would be to preserve as we know from Brandon, that is why Allomancy is of preservation. The intent of Allomancy is to preserve yourself through the magic, and the command is burning the metals to reach preservations investiture
@17thShard
3 жыл бұрын
I would say Intent is you wanting to choose to burn the metal, and the "Command" is the metal itself. Tyler, you're not 100% accurate in how you are quoting that Allomancy being of Preservation WoB. (I should know; I got that one.) I wouldn't say magic systems have "intent." I'll talk about all of this in an Intent video in a bit. -Eric
@tylerhadlock5062
3 жыл бұрын
17th Shard okay I see what your saying Intent is more a personalized aspect in using investiture. Where it doesn’t directly apply to the magic system in the way Connection or Identity would. Is the metal the command because it directs how the investiture is to be used. Like how an awaking command directs the usage of the breath. So each metal is a type of command for each type of different allomatic power. I really like that idea. Thank you for responding!
@maxwelljohnson5221
3 жыл бұрын
@@17thShard thanks for the response Eric!
@EllenSmyth
3 жыл бұрын
The Words on the Dawnshard Mural: I think that's the actual Command, one of the four primal Commands that created all things and that, more importantly, shattered Adonalsium. And because Commands are according to the Sleepless something no mortal can understand, perhaps the language is a divine one. “The most powerful forms of Surgebinding transcend traditional mortal understanding,” Nikli said. His body began to re-form, hordelings crawling back into place. “All their greatest applications require Intent and a Command. Demands on a level no person could ever manage alone. To make such Commands, one must have the reasoning-the breadth of understanding-of a deity. And so, the Dawnshards. The four primal Commands that created all things.” He paused. “And then eventually, they were used to undo Adonalsium itself. . . .” --Dawnshard 190
@orm11videos26
22 күн бұрын
Intent vs. Comand in awakening is spelled out very clearly in warbreaker when Vivena Is learning to awaken. “The Comand brought the life, but the intent - the instructions from her mind - brought focus and action.” So the Comand is the words and the intent is the visualisation
@kipling9625
3 жыл бұрын
I think the mural works like a coppermind, only , It isn't attached to an Identity
@LordXamon
3 жыл бұрын
I asume the different Dawnshard is the comand of to be life. So, investiture tends to become living and sapient (or whatever is the right word) over time. And the Cosmere is just so full of habitable planets and new entities. I would assume one of the Commands of creation is to just to be life or to be sapience. So makes sense to me that that one dawnshard would gain sapience itselft and to be the special one.
@orm11videos26
Ай бұрын
My possibly crack theory is that before the shattering the dawn shards were a single command “be”, which adonalsium used to create everything then spit from its self, becoming the dawnshard, the first shard, which 20 people together used to shatter adonalsium, and splitting it into the 4 dawnshards of modern cosmere in the process. I say 20 people because the 16 vessels plus one for each dawnshard (including hoid)
@Buphido
7 ай бұрын
I don't know if this theory came into existence before or after this episode, but there is a theory that, the 4 only words in all of the cosmere books that have been seen written in all caps, are the names of the Dawnshards. These 4 words are: (Spoilers for Dawnshard and Stormlight up to this point and The Bands of Mourning and Mistborn up to that point) CHANGE (when Rysn became Change) DESTROY (when Nightblood is drawn, this theory also states that Nightblood currently is that Dawnshard) SURVIVE (when Kelsier found the freezing southern Scadrians and helped them survive, it is theorised that he is that Dawnshard) UNITE (in the context of Dalinars visions, though I don't remember the exact scene; there is no good theory for this Dawnshards current whereabouts).
@EllenSmyth
3 жыл бұрын
Mural = Map to putting Adonalsium back together? I have always thought that Wit's endgoal and the endgoal of the series was for all of the god's spren and all the god's men to put Adonalsium back together again. The mural makes it sound like we need four parts of four parts each to come together first before putting these final four parts together into one whole. So, which parts go with which? Are Odium, Cultivation, Honor and one other part of the same fourth?
@IceGavel
2 жыл бұрын
So, if I understand it correctly, every Dawnshard is a primordial Command, and each of the four was used by Adonalsium to create the Cosmere. They were also used to _shatter_ Adonalsium, and each Intent is specific to something - IIRC, the Dawnshard in _Dawnshard_ was "Change". It's also been stated (I think by WOB) that the specific Intents of the Shards were not accidental, but were _influenced_ by something. The Aimia mural leads me to believe there's a connection here - that the Commands of the Dawnshards shaped the Intent of the Shards (instead of the normal other way around, where your Intent might influence your Command). For instance, Change would have resulted in the Shards Cultivation (Change by natural and encouraged growth), Ruin (Change by destruction and degradation), Invention (Change by the deliberate act of sentients), and maybe Endowment (Change by way of giving gifts). If we can discover similar through-lines of connection to Shardic Intent, and if this little pet theory I've been sitting on is correct, we might be able to deduce the Commands of the three currently unknown Dawnshards.
@williamyzaguirre7237
Жыл бұрын
Be / Become / Relate / Express This allows for an internal/external and active (positive)/passive (negative) split Be: preservation, dominion, autonomy Become: cultivation, ruin, innovation Relate: mercy, devotion, honor Express: whimsy, odium, ambition
@algea_algea
3 жыл бұрын
Argent with the best take. "Let there be Light" yes! That's what kind of Command we're talking about.
@pooppooper4252
Жыл бұрын
"the four primal commands that created all things" kinda sounds like the 4 fundamental forces. "gravity", electromagnetism, strong force and weak force. Investiture is something like energy. Energy =/= Force!
@specialnewb9821
3 жыл бұрын
The passage describing what the DS is to me suggests that the commands predate Adonalsium. If they created all things then they created Adonalsium ... and so originate with the God Beyond. Ed: my 4 candidates Change (alteration) Will (thought, bind, includes laws of nature) Be (protect, stasis, create) Soul (feels/spirit/connection) Remember you're god here. Start with BE to make existence, define the existence via WILL, the process of Be shaped by Will is CHANGE, and the reason reality is more than an empty mechanical process is SOUL.
@oneukum
3 жыл бұрын
1. There are multiple commands to doing the same thing with drastical differences: Lifeless are the prime examples.- commands matter 2. You can do Intent without full visualization. When you order an object to defend do, you do not say from what. In fact, you do not know. Or take Nightblood. 3. You can swear the Immortal Words BEFORE you are bonded. The spren cannot be a required source of fuel. I am afraid if that weren't the Cosmere you would call commands "spells" and Investiture "mana".
@drakedecker4874
2 жыл бұрын
I actual it have some expertise on the subject of commands and intentions. I used to supervise communication courses for executives. An intention is like you all say. Something you want to happen. But an intention can have varying degrees of intent. The highest intent, is truly KNOWING it will happen and it happens. “Know it..” There are also varying degrees of knowing. knowing encompasses the specifics and the how and doesn’t necessarily need visualization but it wouldn’t throw off the command either The command DELIVERS the intention. Or manifests it. The command usually doesn’t literally have to be “CHANGE” each time. I can imagine Rysen having an intent for something to change and delivering the command with with word “NOW” at the end of a sentence. Just like in the real world.. if your intention is high enough you don’t even need verbal commands.. or you can use random words instead of the exact words.
@lieberman0253
3 жыл бұрын
Rythum of war spoilers below I think the shard could be split up like this. (Spoilers are shard names) 1: change: cultivation, invention, ambition, and ruin. 2: live?: endowment, autonomy, preservation, and devotion. 3:feel?: odium, whimsy, mercy, and one unknown one. 4:act?: honor, valor, dominion, and one unknown one. I feel the least confident about live and act. With knowing 4 more shards I think it's now a little easier to categorize them.
@ksfarmmom
3 жыл бұрын
One of the words you threw out about possible names for the other dawnshards was “stasis” but no one was liking it. I did a little hunting for synonyms. What about Balance? Under the umbrella of that word are, interestingly, the words “harmony” and “rhythm”. Then, opposite of “create” I think “destroy” was mentioned. Apart from that being Nightblood’s favorite word, were the synonyms “ruin”, “shatter”, and “consume”. Food for thought.
@cealvan8941
3 жыл бұрын
A few things, it feels like the shards are adonalseum's intents, and dawn shards are adonalseum's commands With that in mind, if this is the dawn shard of change, or the command for this is "change" you could "change with honor", "change with Odium", "change with autonomy" Etc... So intention is how you want to accomplish the goal, where as command is what you want to come out of the intent, both useless without the other, both needing to be tuned, and trained With that in mind where as gods intents ask appear to be nouns I predict the dawn shards will have names of verbs
@Trisjack20
3 жыл бұрын
Very nice idea
@esbuenodun
Жыл бұрын
Four states of matter Four states of investiture? Solid = metals Liquid = dor Gas = stormlight Plasma = ?
@ADHDlanguages
16 күн бұрын
I thought it was very interesting that in Tress, Hoid notes that they said "this is for your own good" at the shattering. Definitely relevant to the feelings that Adonalsium expresses here.
@Darkrai1201
3 жыл бұрын
Visualization maust be in the Intent. Take Nightblood as the main example. Nightblood wasn't intended to function exactly the way he does but he was just given the command Destroy Evil. Shashara obiviosly didn't have the devine understanding or intent required to weild the ammont of braths that made Nightblood correctly. This is why Vivenna's Sword doesn't work anything like Nightblood. She must have used a significantly less breaths and probably a less vague command.
@Kabissz
3 жыл бұрын
Using the Dawnshards to shatter Adonalsium - using the words of God against God itself. I think it fits in incredibly neatly into the overarching theme (allegory) of all cosmere works: the nature of divinity-belief-worship.
@Reecman
Жыл бұрын
Only partway through the video, but the repetition of the word change just made me think of lift's boon from cultivation to "not change" which hasn't stopped her aging or physically changing. Is this some ploy from cultivation to perhaps make lift immune to the dawnshard's effects or something further into the future, since shards have the ability to perceive the future (possibilities at least)
@DarkMirius
2 жыл бұрын
Watching this in 2022, finaly read Dawnshard (no audiobook and my time schedule is sooo busy) and watching Argent sain "Rayse is Odium" and started laughin so hard :-D
@bennettjones459
6 ай бұрын
I'm currently rereading Rhythm of War with this in the background. I can feel my brain expanding by the minute.
@Bobbobbob984
Жыл бұрын
For the discussion of commands, i think everything you guys are talking about is intent. The commands are how it works which mostly is handled by others right now because noone knows how to do things. Like efficiency. Like the magic system itself is the command. Without a magic system you can't just take investigure and do things. Shards can do more things, change the magic system, make new ones, use investigure directly. Like all the science stuff people are doing with raw investigure, I think that's closer to command. You can't do something if you don't know how or it's handled by a existing system. Like shatter adalnalsium or separate and recombine void and stormlight, or making anti investigure bonds. Or manipulating souls with stamps. I think it's all those gory details that are handled elsewhere. Sandersons magic systems.
@juliegoggans8303
3 жыл бұрын
I think Rysn got the Dawnshard because she was broken. And she broke partly on her own willingness to sacrifice/ risk her self. (Similar to The breaking into 16 pieces seems like it was a willing sacrifice???) That is why she got Chiri-Chiri and that's why she got the dawnshard.
@sirmusicthebard1750
3 жыл бұрын
What if cephandris was the weapon. He could have held "Destroy" long enough after that it warped his spirit web to the point that he was dependent on its existence to "destroy" anyone/thing. So that's why he can't harm/be a carnivore. He worked with the 5 scholars to bind "Destroy" so no one could use its power. The impossible thing he's trying to do is change "Destroy" to "Destroy Evil". That's also how a dawnshard is different from the others. That dawnshard is nightblood. Actually I guess it should be Nightblood.
@thekwjiboo
Жыл бұрын
If the dawnshards were commands like "let there be light" then hypothetically if an invested enough individual with enough knowledge and intent took up a dawnshard, they could also create ex nihilo, and Brandon said many times that the cosmere works like our universe. No creating/destroying matter or energy...or investiture.
@infinityfringe
3 жыл бұрын
The mural depictions of the people going into portals, perhaps it is depicting the original shard holders at the Shattering. It is unknown how the Shards originally manifest, perhaps they create a perpendicularly since they are newly formed from Adonalsium; the portals leading to the Shards through the Spiritual Realm. Perhaps even the portals are summoned as part of the process of the Shattering. On its walls they found strange murals. People with hands forward, falling through what appeared to be portals, emerging into . . . light? "People" in this case doesn't necessarily mean many, it could mean one per portal. I'd bet if Rysn bothered to count the portals, there would be 16.
@johndipietro9301
3 жыл бұрын
If this Dawnshard is only one Command of the four... I think the four are, in overly simple terms, akin to: -Exist -Cease -Change -Understand (this is the weakest though) My first thought was that each of the Shards somehow grouped together in groups of four based on the mural's division, each related to a different Command... but that doesn't make sense itself. The Command and Intent seem to be separate - the Shards are the Intents incarnate, where the Commands are, well, the Dawnshards. The Shards can issue commands of tehir own, but these are the most important. Wild Guess: each of the other Dawnshard murals will be different. This one shows a resigned or understanding Adonalsium, one who knew that even though he was ceasing to be, he was not being destroyed - his power would, per the Command, change into a new form. I wonder if the other plates will show other emotions.
@stormoflight
3 жыл бұрын
YES! Give me all your pedantry!
@caioeduardo42
11 ай бұрын
omg I understand now how honor "bound the surges"/ If the oaths are like commands you need: command-intent-power, on roshar humans can't get enough investiture without a bond, which means in you need an intermediary figure (spren/stormfather) to arbiter your intent and provide the power to fuel the command, before honor bound the commands to need spren humans could just use the surges with no limiter, therefore planet goes boom
@thepocketboy
3 жыл бұрын
Like David Eddings... The Will and the Word. I see it like this. The Intent is the individual's understanding of what they want to happen. In other words the goal or end result desired. Part of this is the capacity to know and understand what all is involved. Increased mental capacity allows for increased complexity and accuracy of Intent. The Command is the application of the intent or the realization of the intent. It can be verbal, physical, or of your powerful enough a thought can be enough to apply or bring to pass the Intent.
@Arezoo298195
3 жыл бұрын
I think you guys went too specific when it comes to Command and visualisation. What if a person was mute and couldn’t speak? What if they are incapable of visual thought? What if they are blind and what they visualise is different? What if they are non human and have no language? What if...? In all these cases does it mean they cannot carry out Intent? I don’t think so. I think Command is only the FULL understanding of the concept the word of the Command represents which can maybe only be done by a deity.
@NGill-pt1vr
3 жыл бұрын
Y'all need to pay more attention to Warbreaker. The scholars discover commands that enhance their ability to use investiture efficiently. The Dawnshards are even more nuanced and powerful commands. That's my theory.
@wraith.ferron
3 жыл бұрын
Weird theory, but the "adona" in Adonalsium might've evolved overtime linguistically into the "adoda" which forms the prefix of Adolin's name and means light. The mural is described as shards of light. The Dawnshards are the light/adjoining power released during the fracturing that that made the Shards.
@F3d4ykin
3 жыл бұрын
I think Surgebinding is like a magical cnc machine you are given access to use. Intent is the concept you wish to fabricate, the Command would be like the trigger for that effect. Investiture is the fuel that powers the the Surgebinding.
@gordonhenderson9213
3 жыл бұрын
Strikes me that the Dawnshards are adverbs and adjectives to the shards. A catalyst to help enhance the power of the gods. So a boy can be just a boy or he can be a handsome boy, an aggressive boy, a sad boy etc. Rysn in her current state is the descriptor but not the subject. More than a normal person but not regrow your arm special. The mural was invested to find a worthy vessel that Chiri Chiri could vouch for. My guess is a bondsmith has to tap into the power to bond her powers to someone else’s to enhance. Also, since all of the shards are infinity the Dawnshard is the edge any would need for an advantage.
@firstofthemoon
3 жыл бұрын
I think the four Dawnshards were enough to create the principles of the Cosmere, and what the 16 people that shattered Adonalsium did, was to create a weapon that concentrated all the intention of them towards the god, so they could use the will of god against him.
@pespe9812
2 жыл бұрын
Could a Dawnshard or the combination of 2 or more, create new Investiture?? I think that's possible
@viiiewer11
3 жыл бұрын
Eric' needs to chill out and stop subtlety insulting the other casters. EVERY single episode I find myself cringing and feeling so bad for his team as he interrupts them and obnoxiously tries to belittle them while screaming his entitled opinions. I would watch so much more 17th episodes if it weren't for his constant shreeking
@SiempreConMago20Nov
3 жыл бұрын
I think the dawnshards may be commands that each Shard can use. Then, things like "Create" would make more sense, cause each Shard can create. Also each Shard can impose change, so...
@shaunmcdonough7844
2 жыл бұрын
Command = trigger that activates the magic (I.e. words, actions, eating metal etc) Intent = meaning/method of choosing the effect caused by the trigger
@ryanhoar3357
3 жыл бұрын
Hey I know this is super late. But I am firm in the belief that one of the Dawnshards will be Survive. Preservation among others would fall under that
@anomanderrake440
3 жыл бұрын
Somebody get Dalinar down there to translate the not-the-Dawnchant language
@tanyam928
3 жыл бұрын
Or Venli
@nililavi
3 жыл бұрын
1
@thepocketboy
3 жыл бұрын
How does aluminum fit in with the dawnshards? Maybe the dawnshards were originally 1 force and it shattered into 4 during the shattering of adonalsium. And maybe aluminum ties in some how given its ability to resist investiture.
@deadmatt666
2 жыл бұрын
I feel like dawnshard's are to adonalsion, what the honor blades are to honor, Honor blades where created by honor as a tool to give surges to men, and did become sentient unlike honor's small amounts investiture when left alone became sprens. Similarly dawnshards are tools as appose to the shards who when don't have a vessel will become sentient
@woofergranade2044
3 жыл бұрын
What if this shard is the command of Cultivation separates from the power and that is why Cultivation has been able to operate and plan without too much interference from the power?
@esbuenodun
Жыл бұрын
I need to know what their beef with God was! How were they able to gain the ability to locate and use Dawnshards? This is crazy
@tjones107
2 жыл бұрын
the use of the word "breadth" is a play on words with the Breath magic system, I think.
@cveliz_
3 жыл бұрын
I think the first mural could be the 16 vessels ascending.
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