This episode was recorded on 03/01/23. Took a delay because of holidays but normal Fri schedule will resume! Podcast links below! If you're enjoying this content, why not check out other entertainment content from SVB on his second channel the SVB-Side: www.youtube.com/@SVB-Side The best way to support my content is still www.patreon.com/svb Soundcloud: soundcloud.com/ow_svb/the-great-2022-debate Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/6sRWutKTc0gnWuguo62Vpa Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/svbs-group-up/id1490256265
@StorminNormin411
Жыл бұрын
It was recorded in the future!?
@sphenodon2016
Жыл бұрын
@@StorminNormin411 at first I literally thought it was a typo but then I realized... Europe
@StorminNormin411
Жыл бұрын
@@sphenodon2016 OH YEAH!. thanks
@Nynzy
Жыл бұрын
Bless you for doing these, I absolutely love them and thank you!~
@V_ii
Жыл бұрын
thank you
@GetQuakedOn
Жыл бұрын
the hanzo bug was sadly in our early access build and it was reported a few times. im not too surprised that it wasnt fixed sooner
@backstabber3537
Жыл бұрын
small indie company ur asking for too much smh
@BloodRain222
Жыл бұрын
you play for clip candy and complain when you get dumped on as doom
@canineh2o227
Жыл бұрын
Damn
@tinychimp09
Жыл бұрын
@@BloodRain222 jealous
@BloodRain222
Жыл бұрын
@@tinychimp09 yes im very jealous of feeding
@cashraymond464
Жыл бұрын
Flats word is gold, game desperately needs more sense of progression or more dopamine hits besides the great gameplay. No saying loot boxes cuz that won't work, loved it but makes sense why not just needs somthing 🤔
@KiaSoulEV-rt4sg
Жыл бұрын
whatever “something” they give us will be stingy garbage. give back loot boxes.
@fuscello
Жыл бұрын
Hard challenges like “win 300 games as rein” to get some cool skin would be really nice, as you would always be working towards something
@brettoreo7018
Жыл бұрын
Easily one of the best podcasts around
@jaybanks5803
Жыл бұрын
SVB is the best host.
@jsj0520
Жыл бұрын
Winton bogur
@stickypicc7969
Жыл бұрын
Winton Bogur
@BannanaOverlord
Жыл бұрын
Winton bogur
@Geturgutsoffme
Жыл бұрын
honestly spitting facts
@dravenbluesummers
Жыл бұрын
HE lost my respect the second he said money matters more then the game RiP BOGUR
@askers_
Жыл бұрын
@@dravenbluesummers you have an infantile view of the world.
@rusty4265
Жыл бұрын
"This is just how monetization is nowadays" isn't a good defense of shitty monetization. "Read the ToS" is such a braindead take. When you grew up with Half Life and Halo and N64, this monetization is downright offensive. $20 skins? Literally nothing of value I can earn? A game I bought taken away from me? Nonsense.
@ObeseWizard
Жыл бұрын
1:30:00 I don't like this argument. People *DO* say that Anthem stole their money. And they're kinda right. They have no legal repercussions, sure. But it really sucks for them. The difference for OW1 is that it was still very much alive. Sure it wasn't the blockbuster hit that it used to be anymore, but it had a dedicated playerbase that was still playing. I understand that the ToS says they have the right to shut the servers down. But just because they are in the legal right to do so, doesn't mean that it's something we should just accept. What if the ToS was legally able to say something ridiculous, like you have to sacrifice your firstborn child to play? My point is that just because it's in the ToS doesn't mean it's something that people can't be frustrated about. I personally don't like OW2 more than OW1. I know a lot of people will say that's "rose tinted glasses", and there was CERTAINLY a lot of frustrating things about OW1, but as a casual it was a blast to hangout with friends and play OW1. In OW2, that desire to play the game is just gone. Maybe that's because of my own personal changes instead of the changes to the game. But either way I don't care much to play OW2, and on top of that my friend group REALLY doesn't care to play OW2. And since OW1 is quite simply entirely gone, there's no way to go back and have fun with my friends in OW1 again. And that sucks a lot.
@ObeseWizard
Жыл бұрын
I've posted two comments now on this video that are fairly negative, but there was a ton in this episode that I agreed with. It's just a lot easier to discuss things that you don't agree with. Either way, whether I'm agreeing or disagreeing with the discussions, I just appreciate the fact that these discussions exist, and I appreciate that this podcast exists. Please keep making more content
@vegardstmoe917
Жыл бұрын
yeah a weird example where people got ripped off there should be laws around making certain info avaible before shutting down servers
@sepianunderground8288
Жыл бұрын
host is awesome, asks great questions and very intelligent
@bedeviere
Жыл бұрын
svb alt account spotted
@sepianunderground8288
Жыл бұрын
@@bedeviere was i too obvious
@RyanReynolds42069
Жыл бұрын
I nearly shat my pants reading how funny this comment thread was
@jsan2548
Жыл бұрын
@@RyanReynolds42069 Why only almost? Why not cut loose and live a little?
@arcadia6081
Жыл бұрын
When SVB said he felt like a spoiled child for being slightly disappointed with OW2... I definitely feel he is justified in this feeling. Being juxtaposed with the past few years of OW1, 2 looks like the best thing in, well, years. But looking at the entire rest of the industry, OW2 has a LOT of work to do, from monetization to matchmaking to balancing, 2 leaves a lot to be desired.
@LesStewartLPS
Жыл бұрын
I think a lot of dedicated Overwatch fans have just been putting in time for years and fell into a certain set of habits. Seasonal Events would come around and you'd play enough to get all the skins for free and get placed in rank then grind your role/or a role close to getting to the next tier. In Overwatch 2, both of those routines seem worse. If you want to grind the Battle Pass, playing Competitive seems to be a worse time investment because finishing the Challenges in QP is just easier. I really miss duo-tank, but the game is a ton of fun atm and I'm playing more regularly instead of intense bursts. I am really excited for the PvE content and I think expanding the world of Overwatch will attract even more players. The setting has always been compelling, I just hope Blizzard is able to iron out issues in ranked and incentivize more than simple routine play.
@ObeseWizard
Жыл бұрын
I miss duo tanks as well. I *DON'T* miss double shield. But that was fixable without needing to completely remove one of the tank slots.
@Real_MisterSir
Жыл бұрын
There's also something about really sinking into a game and making it yours, understanding all the fine mechanics, and being able to appreciate just how much of its complexity you're able to process directly through your gameplay. It's not often that a game allows its players to dive so deep into its nuances and keep learning, while also at the same time being able to offer a rather casual experience too if that's what you fancy. It's so easy to fall back into OW as an enjoyable comfort pick, so easy to grab a quick set of matches, so easy to queue up with a friend or two. And on top of this, imo there really hasn't been any solid or disruptive multiplayer games launched in the past couple of years - heck, no high-end game in general that really offered a huge incentive to invest the same amount of hours into it, as the avg OW player is used to already. At least for me, I have honestly been sitting and waiting for a new game to truly take over the spot and scratch that itch of diving deep into its gameplay, its lore, its world, etc. Cyberpunk could have been that if they didn't F it up so badly.
@rusty4265
Жыл бұрын
My friends and I played OW1 off and on for years. But we'd always come back for events to play for a few weeks and earn some skins. Now, the events serve no purpose for us. It's a meh activity that you play a few times before going to back to comp or qp. The core gameplay is fun but the monetization just ruins the entire experience for me. Maybe it's unfair for me to 'cling' onto the idea that skins should be free, but I played that game for 6 years. A random game update calls it Overwatch "2" and now I have to spend $10-20 on a recolor? I'm not about that, and I'm not supporting that model. Meet us halfway and I'll listen. Until then, I'm not supporting OW2.
@cashinowt
Жыл бұрын
@@ObeseWizard Me too man I miss having my tank buddy and playing zarya.
@fuscello
Жыл бұрын
@@ObeseWizardhow would you remove it tho? Just straight up ban the orisa sigma tank duo? I feel like 5v5 also has other upsides other than removing double shield anyway like less cc (less cc in 6v6 would mean dove is meta 24/7), more carry potential to dps with less health on the map, making tanks fun again (how the hell was hog sign a remotely good comp?) and many others although smaller
@reformed1trick739
Жыл бұрын
I don't like the label "early access" It feels like it's just a label they keep as an excuse in their back pocket
@tbrighton8531
Жыл бұрын
Been playing overwatch since the original beta. I have officially quit the game. I finally come to realization that this game is never going to be good because Blizzard is incompetent and they don't deserve my money. Plenty of other games out there
@nickjohnson7666
Жыл бұрын
I think the role content creators played in overhyping the game was extremely understated. As soon as they were chosen to join the “special” dev meetings, all the CCs started simping and shoving hype down twitters throats nonstop. That played a huge role in the disappointment. The product we got compared to the BS hype is LEAGUES apart lmao. Also Bogurs entire take summed up: “I’m making more $ so who cares?” Why even have him on here? 💀
@TheDevilEdo
Жыл бұрын
Yeah that dude is dumb as fuck lmao
@msim93
Жыл бұрын
Completely agree. I was an active OW player all through the dark days, watching CCs, keeping up with everything happening in the game. Prior to the special dev meeting, there was well thought out skepticism and criticism against 5v5 and the progress of the game. Balance concerns, concerns that it won't fix issues with OW and instead expose worse issues that double shield was covering up, etc. After the special dev meeting? Nothing but positivity. Nothing but hype. Did we ever get an explanation for the flip in narrative? Nope, because NDA. Just trust us bro. From a viewer perspective, I didn't understand it then and I don't understand it now.
@juuloveh
Жыл бұрын
What I think is DELUSIONAL is the fact we should have to pay more than 8 USD for a legendary skin (20-22 rn) that is fit to just one out of 34 characters. It is a skin, they have the base model of the character and bones are rigged, they make a design and then model ontop of the silhouette. The coming up with the design is probably the longest part of the process, why should we pay 20$ for just a skin? I just don’t get it.
@KisukexMomohime
Жыл бұрын
Flats using Anthem as an example is one of the worst examples of all time he could've used anything else.
@justinbride97
Жыл бұрын
why was it a bad example?
@kenpachi7900
Жыл бұрын
@@justinbride97 Anthem is a bad example because Blizzard has Heroes of the Storm which is a giga dead game, yet they still keep the servers up (game is also older than OW). Saying it's ok to turn off a game because the bottom feeders of the industry like EA or Ubisoft or Gearbox did it before, or because "it's in the Terms and Conditions" is a dog tamer take. What Flats doesn't seem to understand is that profit is one thing, but you also have to build goodwill with your customers, which Blizzard has been historically very good at. I would never buy an online only game from Nexxon because of their history of shutting down games (which is why I never got into Lawbreakers that they published). I will never buy an online only game from EA, Gearbox and Ubisoft for the same reason.
@aerostrafe1075
Жыл бұрын
@@kenpachi7900 Personally to me its only ok to turn a game's servers off if literally no one is really playing it like Lawbreakers which I did play servers were so empty that finding a game was next to impossible. A game like anthem should never be an online only game since I should be able to play that game without having to connect to a server since its not a pvp game.
@prestigini3150
Жыл бұрын
Flats is such a force in the overwatch community, idk how I missed him overwatch 1!
@cheech6234
Жыл бұрын
He a diamond dps player that got seagull to carry TF out of him to me he is someone that can't control his own habits with food
@TheBillykurtz
Жыл бұрын
@@cheech6234 Dude why the hate? 1000% uncalled for. First he's a top 500 tank with or without seagull. In Overwatch 1 he only played main tank and all the meta tank hero's now were considered "offtanks" in Overwatch 2 (plus hog exists and no one likes that character). Yeah he's not as good at DPS or support but that doesn't mean anything. Emongg and a lot of other tanks are the same way, and again Uncalled for about the weight....
@BossBoos697
Жыл бұрын
@@cheech6234 Such a hate comment
@erikhendrickson59
Жыл бұрын
@@TheBillykurtz Flats & Emongg literally have a video series where they play each others; roles. Emongg is Plat-ranked on Tank and Flats is Plat-ranked on Support, despite both being T500 on their main roles.
@cheech6234
Жыл бұрын
@@BossBoos697 obvs hit a soft spot of yours, don't be fat and people won't roast that simple it's a choice not something that he doesn't have control over
@jorrellrichardson3181
Жыл бұрын
Bogur is wrong about most of his argument. Most of us aren't streamers. You can't apply that logic to the majority
@jorrellrichardson3181
Жыл бұрын
Alot of things about overwatch 1 were superior. 1st. I agree with so many of your points but your conclusions are just wrong
@Vastspartan
Жыл бұрын
@@jorrellrichardson3181 Tell me what was superior in overwatch 1
@donnyboy7067
Жыл бұрын
Overwatch 1 was the better game. Blizzard gutted overwatch gameplay wise.
@ultraviolenc3
Жыл бұрын
@@Vastspartan first of all, long term progression. You had level boarders, you could grind achievements, you could collect every single skin in the game, you could grind ranked. In ow2 you have 2/4 of these things, but no even new achievements. Every season is like a separate entity and there is nothing that really interconnects them and shows your overall investment in the game. Second, ow1 was much more tactical and less deathmatchy. You had a bit more time to think about a good team play. Also Rein mirrors were much more fun, a concept of off tank was a good and unique thing, workshop modes such as mercy and doom parkour were very fun, there were even speedrun communities, both heroes got reworked so all these maps are irrelevant now. Rank icons are absolutely terrible, idk why they didn’t just copy them from ow1, especially top 500 one. Decay system is terrible, in ow1 I could grind all roles, now I just can’t maintain it, it takes me about 3-4 updates to get to my real rank, I can’t do that every season for every role, its too annoying and time consuming. I still enjoy Overwatch 2 a lot, but I miss all these things I mentioned.
@nickjohnson7666
Жыл бұрын
100% not sure why he’s even on here if his entire take is “I get money so I don’t care” like brooo the ego 😂
@chronosoul1837
Жыл бұрын
This is the crazy thing about Quick Play since Season 7 in OW1. After Season 7, Quick Play became way more competitive than the Competitive Mode in OW1. If I remember correctly, it was around Season 7 that the complaint about "smurfs in rank" was on the rise, in the community.
@stolensentience
Жыл бұрын
The Copium Re-Up. New podcast name.
@nikospyridis9579
Жыл бұрын
About the whole wanting 2CP back, personally I think it has to do more with the maps than anything. Hanamura, Temple of Anubis, Volskaya were the maps that got me really hooked into the game and I loved playing them in every meta that I did play. For low/mid rank plebs like me, it was one of the first and only maps that people kind of learned how to play, especially on the defensive side (except Volskaya first, which is a hard point to understand for these elos). You would see teams learn where to sit, how to move back to the point if needed etc. Even attackers would sometimes know a few basics like moving to the right building on attack and stuff like that. So pretty much, I think it's more of a nostalgic take, our first experiences with the game and it's more map based. Like personally, I'm as hooked for "bring back 2CP", as in bring back Volskaya Hanamura Anubis as I am hooked for Numbani, another one of the maps that were similar to the previous 2CP (teams even in low rank learnt the basics of where to push and where to sit)
@gacktdirge17
Жыл бұрын
Bogur : i make big money, idc about players, ok then.
@shoegaze3750
Жыл бұрын
basically this whole podcast theyre saying the game is trash while trying really hard not to say the game is trash and they only play it for money
@boltywolty123
Жыл бұрын
Facts. Damage control!
@TheDevilEdo
Жыл бұрын
Pretty much, yeah
@donnyboy7067
Жыл бұрын
If overwatch dies then their salary dies.
@gagan9209
Жыл бұрын
Literally it felt forced as fuck. Samito praising about the game here meanwhile he shits on his channel and can't play the game anymore. He uninstalled it.
@backstabber3537
Жыл бұрын
@@gagan9209 samito is a crybaby what do u expect
@AlexBerkk
Жыл бұрын
There's an argument to be made that when you take down servers for an online game, you should publish server side code for community, so it has a chance to be maintained, but not sure if it applies in Overwatch case
@askers_
Жыл бұрын
Flats is on hard copium if he thinks the stuff in the battle pass is good.
@salvadortapia5558
Жыл бұрын
Ironically you’re on hard copium for having to pay and/or missing out on the rest of the Greek skins bc they aren’t in the BP.
@SirenRyan
Жыл бұрын
It IS good. It’s like 6 nice legendary skins, a mythic skin, and a whole slew of emotes/intros/weapon charms/sprays for $10. Other gamers like Apex players all said how jealous they are of our BP.
@maxl2778
Жыл бұрын
@@SirenRyan everyone gets the same skin though. Why pay for a battle pass for skins that everyone has? You’re practically paying for the default skin if literally everyone has it
@SirenRyan
Жыл бұрын
@@maxl2778 Because most of us actually care about how a skin actually looks and not about feeling like a special edgy boy because only 1% of players have it lmfao
@maxl2778
Жыл бұрын
@@SirenRyan If you cared about how skins actually looked you would select the default skins every time. They’re the most iconic and easily recognizable, the only reason people want to buy skins is for something *different*
@rosenracht
Жыл бұрын
6v6 being an arcarde mode with the open cue tank balance sounds fun!!
@pimpfighterROQ
Жыл бұрын
OW 2 is looking more and more like the mobile games that looks good and is free. But underneath it all is just a pay for everything and is a grindfest just to keep you playing and coming back for more.
@lruddy8820
Жыл бұрын
The blizzard wasnt making money because of lootboxes is a bs argument, overwatch wasnt making money because it wasnt updated for two years wasnt being marketed and wasnt drawing in new players to buy their game, OW1 was a pay to play game there was a way for them to make money and they didnt take it for over two years
@chronosoul1837
Жыл бұрын
Everyone that hates being against Roadhog is like an ulting Ramattra. "SUFFER as I have!"
@Bluemansonic
Жыл бұрын
24:52 THANK YOU, idk why nobody is discussing or even acknowledging this
@Nickelback8469
Жыл бұрын
I'm not sure if it's intentional or if it's just a disconnect between Bogur and me, but he came off as pretty self righteous in some instances and it made it difficult to listen to his inputs without irritation.
@SuperboneOne
Жыл бұрын
Feel free to fact check me, but I believe the Blizzard yearly earnings report always showed OW1 making a TON of money every year. The loot boxes got bought by whales. Was it a great system? Maybe not. But there's got to be some sort of in between that's still good for free players. "Blizzard has to make a profit" is an idea that you guys keep improperly wielding in these videos, because yes they have to make money, but you're saying it implying that their profit margins are really small. They make huge profits off MTX. Their pricing scheme is centered around end of year reports for stockholders, showing they can keep making more and more money year over year. Having money to pay their workers is not at all in question here.
@SuperboneOne
Жыл бұрын
Also, I'd love to see you guys talk more about the death of "not quickplay/comp" modes aka Arcade and Arcade-adjacent modes. The move to 5v5 changed balance in a way that killed open queue, mystery heroes, deathmatch, etc. This is a loss of content, in a way, because it was an alternative to the same old game day after day. With those modes being thrown into chaos by tanks being extremely strong (and even healers self-healing in some cases) it's really limiting the overall game and its appeal to some elements of the casual playerbase. We haven't gotten much communication about how those modes might be saved, and the loss of alternative game modes is a ticking time bomb before the general playerbase burns out on quickplay/comp.
@empiresteve9
Жыл бұрын
Bogur should work for blizzard, his “you think you know what you want but actually it is *I* who knows what you really want!” hubris would fit right in. Mained tank and dps from Season 1. I would go back to OW1 in a fucking heartbeat if I had the choice. Instead, I’m not even going to finish this seasons battle pass because the game legitimately does not offer me the experience I’m looking for anymore. 5v5 is VASTLY inferior to 6v6 for me. I would rather get stunlocked at hanamura point one every spawn of my gaming career than whatever OW2 is trying to convince me is fun. I understand I may be an extreme minority and I’ve accepted that, times have changed and blizz made a choice to attract more players. That’s their prerogative. But the idea that NOBODY had more fun in OW1 than OW2 is a laughable take
@scumlord4709
Жыл бұрын
I’d rather pay the 60$ again and have lootboxes. Idc that a streamer doesn’t care about skins.
@SkyKnight742
Жыл бұрын
"Anthem/OW1 died and they turned the servers off, deal with it" Just give us the goddamn software if you're gonna stop selling it. Anthem makes $0, just release server software. Not even the code, just binaries and let ppl run their own shit. Something something capitalism bad
@brites4
Жыл бұрын
you guys are: "they have to charge 1000 for skins or they'll go broke" lol it's not like that, sometimes the elasticity of the price fails and they're actually making less money selling too high. They're not that hot in the gaming industry anymore to charge like other games do.
@TheDevilEdo
Жыл бұрын
Bro thinks 20 bucks is 1000 dollars
@brites4
Жыл бұрын
@@TheDevilEdo bro bro bro bro... per skin stupid motherfucker...for people not in the US is much more, for me is 1/10 of minimum wage
@trumpetdoty27
Жыл бұрын
The discussion around 6v6 is what I miss the most. Tank synergy is the thing I LOVED the most in OW1 that was unlike anything else in gaming. Glad that was a topic even a bit in this podcast
@msim93
Жыл бұрын
Completely agree. I loved when they started talking about that. Nothing else in the game felt as good as when you could synergize with the other tank.
@boltywolty123
Жыл бұрын
Damage control much? The game is in a worse state than OW1. So many players have left. There’s less features than OW1.
@verbal_backflips9493
Жыл бұрын
It's way better than one
@donnyboy7067
Жыл бұрын
If overwatch dies their job dies. They have to damage control the game. They're saying 7/10 yet this update was enough to get my entire friend group to stop playing the game. Doubt we're the unique ones.
@ervinaspetrauskas1716
Жыл бұрын
and i haven't played ow2 for over a month and barely touched season 2 some days ago. and i already had 1.9k hours on ow1
@scar4513
Жыл бұрын
Would love to have custa, avral, samito, freedo all at the same time in one group up episode
@prestigini3150
Жыл бұрын
One day
@Geturgutsoffme
Жыл бұрын
custa and AVRL together hits different. by far my favorite opinions on the game. but this episode sounds like a battle LOL
@Nyxtia
Жыл бұрын
No one man could moderate this
@scar4513
Жыл бұрын
@@user-uo5jx7sg6h avrl legit the best caster in owl he understands the pro scene better than most of them and well mannered.
@fuscello
Жыл бұрын
@@user-uo5jx7sg6hthey both have a really good understanding of the game
@strawberrydialectics
Жыл бұрын
love this podcast. i love long-form discussion content! i would love to see stylosa and sooshi on here sometime!
@dravenbluesummers
Жыл бұрын
Elden ring won game of the year! BECAUSE they didnt choose free to play Overwatch doomed themselves to be a low quality use and abuse game the second they took the immortality over Quality approach=f2p Ow1 died from no content not double shields With content and removal of some shields ow1 slamms ow2 Lost a mad amount of respect for BOGUR seeing as how he dont care how good ow2 is as long as he makes money ....... Rip BOGUR
@Furkan123Furkan123
Жыл бұрын
You don’t know what you’re talking about
@GraphiteBlimp27
Жыл бұрын
A big thing I think about 6v6 with support play was that you had a tank fight to contribute to. Big easy targets to either hit with heals or cooldowns which allows a support player to manipulate and control the fight. In my experience of OW2, I have no problem dueling DPS that try me, or shutting down a Doomfist, what is an issue is that you can’t afford to look to make a play before your teammates die. In far too many games, teams lack the sense to avoid unnecessary damage or slow their play down, causing you to have to just constantly pump out heals as they face tank. If I look to contest the enemy Ashe as Ana, my DPS will feed in the time it takes one shot. Or my Dva will sit main and get shredded. In OW1, the tank CD cycle and protection they provide, one support to keep them both topped off as you attempt to carry the match with a big sleep, Zen volley, etc. Just feels like you have no time to be offensive, which is ironic considering the direction they took the game. Makes support way more boring for me. Also, while they tried to make it easier to carry in OW2, and somewhat succeeded, they made it even more easy to throw. One weak link is a bigger detriment than it ever was. The meta support ever since launch, Kiriko, also prevents hero plays and adds to this feeling on any role you play (wakes up your sleep, undoes your shatter or makes you go through someone on Doom, makes Echo beam useless, etc.) Well literally after I make this comment SVB makes the same point about carrying/throwing. Another thing I’ll add is that in 6v6 I feel like there were more momentum moments where you could W in and “walk” on them but OW2 is sooooo stale-matey. In OW2 there are moments I see someone blatantly misplaying and I’m like “oh they die” but they live, our team doesn’t have the killer instinct to rush them down or they get bailed out by Kiriko. Also in 6v6 you could potentially 6k and there are more players and thus more opportunities for double and triple kills as well.
@johnsonspark171
Жыл бұрын
Support in OW1 was literally easy mode
@GraphiteBlimp27
Жыл бұрын
@@johnsonspark171 you’re not wrong, I just thought I’d enjoy it more in OW2 since it seemed like you could be more offensive, but as the game has developed it’s more boring than ever. I just think the tank fight is what kind of defined an OW match (and not only supports, but tanks like Rein or DPS like Mei got a lot of their value in the tank fight) is lost.
@TheDevilEdo
Жыл бұрын
@@GraphiteBlimp27 Agreed, I also thought you would be able to be more offensive but nah. Not only it's really fucking boring, your impact is way lower than tank and dps. It's shit.
@aerostrafe1075
Жыл бұрын
@@GraphiteBlimp27 The tank matchup is really stale. I swear I can't stand Orisa personally. Not because she is OP but because she is the only tank where you as the tank are better off just completely ignoring her. DPS should ignore her and the only supports that should look her way are ana/zen. Ana to anti nade her and zen to make sure the discord lives on her. There is no tank fight against Orisa since I just go winston to fry everything else.
@TattyUk21
Жыл бұрын
Sam's nerf of making sojourn Soldier 2.0 sounded so good to me. I am one of those low lvl players (plat at best) make the rail a cooldown, she is different enough to soldier as she has easy access to high ground and doesn't need a massive flank to get there. The shop seems scummy for the reasons they mentioned most of the items could be 50% cheaper, feel like decent value and will tempt players to actually buying them more consistently. The biggest businesses in the world offer goods at good value or cheaper walmart, mcDonalds, amazon etc. unless they are big tech hardware companies. $10 for a legendary skin I'd be tempted but $20 nah your alright if i want to piss money away i'll go get drunk with it, atleast I'd have the benefit of getting drunk. I have Hopes for PvE as I have friends who I hope will be tempted to play as the barrier to entry in PvP is high and they couldn't get into it the difference of OW compared to most shooters id so far it can take alot to get into it.
@toraow
Жыл бұрын
They should host $10,000 tournaments every season for us to strive for and be able to shine/get exposure
@johnsonspark171
Жыл бұрын
you'd get shit on
@ultraviolenc3
Жыл бұрын
I think it was the first SVB podcast that I didn’t enjoy whatsoever. Bogur was disrespectful to the ow fan base the whole video telling to shut up if you disagree with his rants. Flats is just inconsistent. Either game is in a bad state or in a good state, make a choice already. You can’t say balance is bad, but the game is good bc they will add more skins and holiday events, that’s not how it works lol.
@sleepyperson21
Жыл бұрын
The only thing coming to my mind during this episode. Was Bogur's Burgers by Winton, Winton Burger by Bogur. While listening to on my walk.
@TerrencetheGreat13
Жыл бұрын
I feel like QP can be more competitive than Comp because in QP, people are more likely to play their mains and best heroes instead of the meta picks “needed” for rank.
@josephbarker1551
Жыл бұрын
I can't believe Bogur made a Bojack Horseman reference at 55:11 about rose colored glasses.
@jaxsolaris1177
Жыл бұрын
What exactly makes it a Bojack Horseman reference? I’ve seen two people say this so far, I haven’t seen the series myself yet. But rose colored glasses metaphor has been and is a thing outside of Bojack as far as I’m aware
@wiggimax
Жыл бұрын
It would be cool if they made contract packs like tf2. You could maybe buy some dps contract package and after completing challenges you could get a skin or some diamond weapon or something. Would also love if there was a stat clock attachement that would count and show kills on a weapon. Would pay for that on favourite characters.
@greyfalconow9467
Жыл бұрын
Nice, had some work to do and needed a podcast to listen to.
@P_Bad
Жыл бұрын
I agree with the sentiment that we dont need OW1 to come back, but i dont agree that some of the things took out from Ow2 shouldnt come back (like end cards, on-fire, put Lootboxes into the battlepass progression) but yah keep 2cp out of the game and maybe down the line the Xbox funding can allow for more supported modes like 6v6 and more. And the part about monetization is the system just needs fundamental changes to be rewarding to F2p players, i actually dont see how any new F2p player would keep playing this game being strictly free as the game is just not rewarding, games can have strict monetization if the fact that free players can still unlock things in a general speed compared to payed players, i just dont get the sentiment that things cant change with the store
@SuperTwoU
Жыл бұрын
I don't think you can say loot boxes weren't predatory and actually not come off as a shill. Like somehow they argued both that no one had to spend money cus of loot boxes, but also that you had to spend thousands to get a specific skin. It really reeks of just being pro-Overwatch 2 at any cost. It's strange cus they all seem to acknowledge the current shop is a joke, but for what ever reason are acting like players are the entitled ones. No, it's very much Blizzard. Removing skins from the battle pass to put exclusively in the shop and replacing those battle pass skins with random green recolors. Blizzard literally uses every psychological manipulation tool in the freemium tool box. This is not a company that should be defended on this front. Like yes sure, non-profitability leads to StarCraft 2 (a game I still play and enjoy actually), but profit being the driving factor leads to Diablo Immortal. Blizzard will go exactly as far as they think they can go without being sued. And it's pretty easy to see that they do in fact cross that line now and then.
@ultraviolenc3
Жыл бұрын
Did they really say you had to spend thousands? Sounds strange to me. I’m pretty much sure you got so many coins from duplicates in loot boxes you could buy any specific skin you wanted just with coins, you didn’t have to rely on random.
@jomwatches
Жыл бұрын
Overwatch has been struggling with balancing for a long time. Open Queue and 6v6 are possible to be balanced and fun, but require an adept balance team. Role queue and 5v5 are easier options so that's why they have been chosen.
@burgos7114
Жыл бұрын
Flats having to preface what he says as “so I don’t get sued” kinda tells me something I’ve been wondering. Unfortunate if true
@billykritikos7734
Жыл бұрын
Love the podcast, but goddamn I could not focus after Bogur put the fucking Winston plushie for his cam. Laughing more than listening this episode.
@kielmessersmith1956
Жыл бұрын
Man Bogur, how's that boot taste my guy? Yeah they needed a change to make more money for future content, but they could have done it without being scummy and predatory about it.
@BunnyOfThunder
Жыл бұрын
I have to jump in on the "Do you miss OW1" thing... because no. 5v5 and CC reduction is why I am playing OW2 at all. I don't want 6v6 and I *very* don't want more CC.
@RiftEnalios
Жыл бұрын
CC is a weird thing because like, in some ways it’s absolutely needed, but also not. Like League for example there’s so much CC while OW1 there wasn’t a whole lot but now there’s even less and it feels way better to play
@berzerkmk
Жыл бұрын
6v6 gets completely blamed when shield meta is the kulprit of the downfall of the off tank role plus current state of DPS and support is definitely caused by 5v5 so I think people need to open their eyes and hop off the bandwagon of 5v5
@RiftEnalios
Жыл бұрын
@@berzerkmk that entire response confused me so much
@BunnyOfThunder
Жыл бұрын
@@berzerkmk I can agree that sustain is a big part of the issue. That includes shields but also defense matrix, Zarya bubbles, healing numbers, etc. Too much sustain leads to boring fights and a lack of playmaking, and the only way to win is through CC and one-shots. So I agree that Blizzard needs to be careful not to let sustain overly dominate the game like it did in OW1
@jorrellrichardson3181
Жыл бұрын
Flats explain warframe then
@nathanreaves8984
Жыл бұрын
1:21:00 Great idea for a competitive reward system. I don't think weapon skins should go across all heroes though
@pandaman1559
Жыл бұрын
CD for Junkrat mine is 8 seconds in case anyone was wondering.
@nickjohnson7666
Жыл бұрын
Yeah but he has 2…so 4 sec basically
@rudyramirez125
Жыл бұрын
The"Do you miss OW1?" Portion dragged and I feel like Sam's question to the panel was completely ignored and Bogur... what was even said during this entire portion? He gets it? Kind of just rambles on without any general point of discussion to the topic.
@Odor0us
Жыл бұрын
Yeah bogur never has anything decent to add to these unfortunately
@simend5116
Жыл бұрын
I heard and liked the idea of having skin vouchers. Would be cool if they had these instead of the themed legendary skins that are chosen for us in the bp, so we can choose which one we want.
@stefans3696
Жыл бұрын
20 Dollar worth for a skin? 😂. I would maybe buy a skin for 4 dollars not more and I can’t understand ppl they buy it. I have the money ez for it but no! And have no reward after games killed the game fun for me and I play it maybe for a few min a week.
@spankyhunter
Жыл бұрын
i used to play a game called star wars galaxies. spent hundreds of hours playing. then they shutdown the servers. its been over 10 years. we dont own games anymore, we pay a lease to access the servers. if blizz decides to shutdown the servers that it. any money you paid to them is gone. other games that are gone are warhammer online & wildstar are both games that i know ppl spent thousands of dollars on & are now totally gone. such is the world we live in now
@johnmetzakis2910
Жыл бұрын
To get fair the profits go to the shareholder dividends not the the dev's, they are still overworked and underpaid and we know Blizzard has the bank to pay them but it wont happen. The monetization it really needs more adjustment, I feel the issue isn't what unable to let go of OW1, it more like how they push the envelope. comparatively, skins are 2-3 times more expensive than OW1, assuming you bought loot boxes and take the drop odds into account. I feel they should just move the character to rank 20 in the pass, and offer more currency, heck have all the items the same as the premium but you don't get them you just unlock to buy them with currency, so like once you get to level 80 on the free pass you have like enough to currency to buy a Legendary skin. with ad mentioned currency is also gained from games etc, what they need to get rid of also is the Rotating FOMO skin unlocks, just have them all available and rotate a discounted one. Its stupid if i want a particular skin, i have to not only keep playing that hero constantly but hope it rotates the specific skin i want to unlock, this feature needs to piss right off.
@askers_
Жыл бұрын
Tldr
@johnmetzakis2910
Жыл бұрын
@@askers_ sorry just for you ill use sock puppets next time to keep you entertained.
@boltywolty123
Жыл бұрын
Bring back player level progression. There’s no incentive to play anymore from the only levelling system being the trash battle pass. Why no end game medals? OW2 will be dead by the summer.
@Link2855
Жыл бұрын
Really curious how the last year of OW1 6v6 would have been if they put in the Orisa rework early to get rid of double shield.
@burni988
Жыл бұрын
Yeah I'm thinking they could've kept 6v6, reworked orisa like they did and make tanks these brawler styled heroes and less shield reliant.
@christopher5577
Жыл бұрын
Remember most of the ow team is building a pve game we’ve never seen.
@kielmessersmith1956
Жыл бұрын
I think every one of you forgets that overwatch "failed" on purpose. Blizzard let it die slowly so they could re-released the game as a microtransaction swipe fest. They could have rerolled the way cosmetics are distributed without a sequel release, they are passing off the majority of content in OW2 as new content. Like many of us didn't pay a premium price for those things already. To take that and put it all behind additional pay walls is fucking fraud.
@srtnnrnn7405
Жыл бұрын
Please never stop doing these 🙏🙏
@umarrii
Жыл бұрын
1:06:00 - I felt the same as Flats on this issue, until people pointed out that Blizzard revealed that Overwatch had already earned them $1bn by Summer 2017.
@CH4R10T_TV
Жыл бұрын
It feels perverse to me to complain about the idea of a Widowmaker 1-shot when she is so mechanically different from a Hanzo or a Hog instakilling people. Hog feels mostly problematic not due to his 1-shot but rather that combined with his sustain and the fact that the hook is also a crowd control ability. I have unironically seen players complain about the 1-shot potential of Reinhardt or Widowmaker and I think if they removed that but kept spamming two-shots it really wouldn't feel good at all. Widow headshot is the one thing you have against Sojourn in that matchup, it would make Sojourn's doninance worse to have zero 1-shots. If Widow can't pop heads from across the map then I don't know why we would bother making this game anything resembling a shooter. At that point just massively increase all health pools, rework half the characters and get rid of role queue because there's no point. That people even bring Widow up in the same breath as Kiriko or Sojourn or Hog or Hanzo feels insane to me.
@creeyis5092
Жыл бұрын
Yeesh. I was so early the video had "no views". You can tell how bad I'm itching for this podcast every time.
@MrMalimer
Жыл бұрын
I only barely play, but it's good as someone interested in game design to hear people work through their experience of a game.
@cs49500
Жыл бұрын
There's something horrible about not owning shit you buy online. The buy button is a lie 💀
@burni988
Жыл бұрын
40:23 I feel like if they kept 6v6 and just reworked characters like how they did with orisa, maybe other character could've got reworks that either swaps out their shield or just trades the shielding effectiveness for the new brawler styled tanks, then you'd have two meat shields (in the form of the 2 big HP pools in the Frontline) but you can still interact in the game and not just be shooting actual shields all game.
@aerostrafe1075
Жыл бұрын
I wonder if it could be ok to restrict the tank selection in 6v6 where you can only pick one tank that has a full barrier? Example Sigma and old Orisa could never be on the same team. You could still do Reina Zarya since bubbles dont count as shields. If you want no shields you can still do that too. The only thing taken away is combos like Sig/Orisa, Sig/Ram, Orisa/Ram, etc. It could get tricky with tanks like winston and Ram though. Could also have used rein as a basis for shields. Shielding that requires you to do nothing else to shield should be a stronger shield. Shields that are on CDs allowing you to do other things should not be strong shields.
@TheNerd
Жыл бұрын
01:29:00 To be precise, most software is basically "rented" (Windows is probably the most popular example). You don't own Software anymore. You own the rights to use it. Has been this way for like 30/40 years. Software companies faced troubles with copyright and the ownership of intellectual property (if you own the software do you own the rights to use XYZ), so they only give you the rights to use it, but you don't own it.
@stolensentience
Жыл бұрын
You could still install and run win95 you can’t install and run ow1 or anthem.
@TechnologicNick
Жыл бұрын
Beta 2 access was bad. The beta was already active for 18 days until my friends and I were given access. That left us with only 3 days to participate. Two and a half weeks you saw people playing the new heroes on youtube while we were getting cuckolded by blizzard.
@LordTutTut
Жыл бұрын
Just because something is standard in the industry doesn't mean it's good. Apex's monetization is straight up predatory, OW's monetization not being as bad as it is not something to be commended- it should be expected. All the money just goes into shareholder's pockets anyway
@Freaks31875
Жыл бұрын
Good ideas and takes, but I won’t care about the shop. They’re a company their aim is to make money. Let them make money how they see fit. I care about that we’re getting content and our shop is is more fair than any other game on the market.
@kayanono
Жыл бұрын
Happy new year yall o/ great episode so far
@davidrich27
Жыл бұрын
Honestly, the only marketplace thing I really want change is to have crafting materials. If the premium BP even earned enough credits for 1 legendary skin per season, even if they pulled one legendary skin out of the BP to compensate, it would make a huge difference to me. I just want to periodically get skins I actually want from the store for the characters I actually play. I am willing to spend $30-50 per year on BPs for that. I mean, cheaper prices in store would be nice, but if I'm honest, I probably wouldn't buy them piecemeal unless they made them dirt cheap.
@yesman2473
Жыл бұрын
Was waiting for this podcast so bad 🔥 🔥
@bknelson1515
Жыл бұрын
Going off samito at 1:22.. they have to make you feel badass if you are above average or accomplish something or grind really hard.. give us an identity
@wm8401
Жыл бұрын
A nice shot of new money can make anyone adopt some new rationale. I'm hearing attitudes and justifications from our lads I'm not used to but it's to be expected. No matter what, SVB will always be a straight G and ow will always be unbridled dogshit. Still gonna keep playing though. The self righteousness and self loathing I get from ow means too much for me to just walk away.
@rockenamigo5345
Жыл бұрын
The 40% to 25% dmg nerf on hacked enemies needs to be changed to 30% to help sombra out a bit more
@fuscello
Жыл бұрын
1:31:00 on the refund point, you can just see a ow2 as an update, would you like a refund when they added brig, released sig or made role q? No you wouldnt, so just look it as a big update that also made the game free for everyone, I don’t see the problem personally
@MelonSoda103
Жыл бұрын
Damn Flats hardcore defense of the monitisation system is wild like bro just because it's not as bad as it can be does not mean that you should praise it for being only shitty.
@x_cess1vesamurai940
Жыл бұрын
My great friend knows I love flats and info. So he's directed me hear. I appreciate you all for trying to get our game in the right place. Thank you SVB, FLATS, SAMITO bogur!!! Much love and appreciation for ur time.
@mayitakeyourhatsir8632
Жыл бұрын
I'm going to use this comment section as a place to put a miscellaneous gripe I have with Overwatch right now. OWL skins for JQ, Sojourn, Kiriko, and any other new hero since OW2's release are unavailable. I understand Ram because he just came out, but they already made the skins for the other heroes and the OWL teams used them, why tf can't I buy them?
@donomite059
Жыл бұрын
This discussion sounds so much like the destiny community trying to give Bungie the credit that they deserve for releasing content but also understanding that in their private meetings they intentionally give us the worst to make them believe that we deserve it... copium we pay for their product and they intentionally rip us off for they can not look stupid yes that is coping with the true reality
@Nick-ht5yi
Жыл бұрын
Missed opportunity to call it the great new year debate
@gerharddamm5933
Жыл бұрын
What about next year?
@Nick-ht5yi
Жыл бұрын
@@gerharddamm5933 Gerhard Damm delivering facts and logic to my doorstep
@mauskeleemans
Жыл бұрын
If its really early access then give me back OW1 untill OW2 isn’t early access 😠
@TheeRedNight
Жыл бұрын
To flats lootbox point. The issue isn't no one bought them because they had everything the issue is everyone had everything because they never pumped anything into them...
@Badspot
Жыл бұрын
I would pay money to disable all skins and just have team colors. The game is already an unreadable mess and having every character look different in every other match just makes it worse.
@i.r.weasel7042
Жыл бұрын
Buffing counterpicking by buffing Orisa to fight Hog is not the way to go. We're supposed to be moving away from that type of tactic.
@brokenbutterfly5589
Жыл бұрын
"They have the right to do that." Yeah . . . just because you can legally do something doesn't make it good or shield you from criticism. "You agreed to it in the fine print." That's a bitch stance for abusive corporations to victim shame when they KNOW no one is wading through the legalese and keeping up with every TOS change. Those two lines instantly make me think of Nestle and that is NOT a mental link anyone wants made with them. Also, pro tip. You don't have to pay to keep your servers online if you don't hate your own fanbase and give them dedicated servers. Time to go boot up CoD4 patch 1.0 on my community server.
@TheDevilEdo
Жыл бұрын
lmao
@Liquidice611
Жыл бұрын
its not that i want loot boxes back, i want some currency for playing the game, ranking up is fake news and there is literally no replayable things to earn in the game. so it just feels like u are wasting ur time. flats confirmed blizzard employee....
@chronosoul1837
Жыл бұрын
I think there would be some issue if the green Queen Legendary skin was priced different from other Legendary skins. Because that would be a precedent that there are different "tiers" of a same class of a skin, based on the marketing team's opinion of which skin is worth more than another. Let's be honest, there was 100% some people that purchased the JQ green neon skin because the skins that are "better than another" in the same class of skin is all subjective, from person to person.
@BeanBoy20
Жыл бұрын
Just my opinion but I feel like 6 v 6 could have worked alot better if you had 2 tank roles. One for "main" tank which includes anyone with shields - Rein, Sig, Winston, Ramattra, and a role for the other tanks - Zarya, Dva, Hog, Orisa, JQ, Ball, Doom. I know it would have a big impact on matchmaking times but I feel like that is something that could have been worked around, especially if 2 tanks worked at improving the game.
@anilogo682
Жыл бұрын
There is too much healing in this game in general because their is 1 less hero to heal. AND too much dmg in general since Dva peel / shields gone. :P I feel, besides one shots, everything is dying too fast or too slow. strangely. Nerf dmg AND healing across the board by 16% on all heroes. (and remove 1shots)
@RiftEnalios
Жыл бұрын
Removing one shots makes no since considering we have literal sniper characters 😂
@i.r.weasel7042
Жыл бұрын
@@RiftEnalios Widow's 1 shot could Still be reworked to do DOT like an Ana shot so there's time to counter it with a heal or bubble, kinda like Magnetic Grenade. JUST A THOUGHT.
@RiftEnalios
Жыл бұрын
@@i.r.weasel7042 like apply her sting abilities DOT to her sniper? It’s a interesting thought but it would ruin her identity of the one shot sniper. Snipers take skill so the 1 shot is the rewarding factor to the character
@chadboy1515
Жыл бұрын
Widow takes almost 0 skill compared to many characters in the game. It’s like 80% mechanical, 15% positioning, and 5% gamesense. If you can click heads you carry games. There is no other hero like that in the game. Even other snipers have limited range and mobility like ash. Widow is way too oppressive at the highest ranks and you can literally ask any GM player that plays widow. Only widow players enjoy widow in the game because it is dog shit game design. It forces you to play an extremely dull game of sitting behind corners the whole game and playing way too passive. It’s fun for nobody.
@stolensentience
Жыл бұрын
@@chadboy1515 0 skill compared to other characters. Fucking classic.
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