One of my favorite parts of Adrian Goldsworthy's book (In the Name of Rome) is when he decides to end the chapter that was dedicated to Marius with a quote Marius gave during the Social War. Marius was called out to battle by some Social War opponents who said "Marius if you're a great general, come out and fight" To which Marius replied "If you're a great general, make me fight even if I dont want to"
@GreggOld
Жыл бұрын
I find it so funny that this conflict was completely avoidable. Rome didn't want to give full citizenship to the Socii, so they all went to war, then in the end they gave citizenship to the Socii. Not one of Rome's greatest moves.
@alekisighl7599
Жыл бұрын
The social war and later the battle of the colline gate all but ensured that the filthy S*mnites were thoroughly pacified so it was worth it imo
@7777Scion
Жыл бұрын
Welcome to the greed of humanity. Nothing's changed. Putin's Russia, North Korea, corrupt politicians in Australia, Finland, and even the Americans.
@jasonmuniz-contreras6630
9 ай бұрын
And for good reason, the italians worshipped "Italia" and not "Roma". After Roma defeated Italia, in other words after the Romans taught the Italians that Roma would be their main goddess that they would owe allegiance to and not Italia, these latter were granted citizenship. It was not that the Romans were just being selfish about granting them citizenship, a lot of those allies were Osco-Umbrians with their own political ambitions, especially the Samnites.
@MattieK09
8 ай бұрын
@@jasonmuniz-contreras6630100%
@micolashcage
7 ай бұрын
@jasonmuniz-contreras6630 This is entirely wrong. The one and only reason why the romans generously decided to share their roman citizenship with italians was because they were desperate. There was a tangible fear of Etruria and Umbria joining the revolt which would had cut their supplies from Cisalpine Gaul and likely been the end of Rome. That and the defeat in the battle of Tolenus with the numerous corpses dragged back to Rome was the final wake up call and it's only then that the Romans were willing to negotiate. There was no reason for Romans to teach the Italians to worship Rome when so many of them already did, at least at the time the social war started. They wanted to be full fledged Romans with all the perks and privileges of being one. They were angry at Rome for being used in wars and then discarded, oftentimes left without land and still treated like dirt.
@thedemonhater7748
Жыл бұрын
This is a criminally underrated channel. You explain an incredibly complex and obscure event in roman history very well.
@geordiejones5618
Жыл бұрын
I see the Social War and the Sullan-Marian rivalry as basically one continuous conflict from 91-82. Especially because Cinna and Carbo stoked the fears of the Socii against Sulla, and then when Sulla arrived back on the peninsula, he made sure to slowly march across Italy to reassure the Italians that he viewed them at least somewhat as Romans. By the time both Marius and Sulla had died, all of Italy was truly Roman, and that's what allowed Pompey, Caesar, Antony and Octavian to raise a crazy amount of legions.
@7777Scion
Жыл бұрын
Rome raised huge armies in the 3rd century B.C., so, no, that is not a viable theory.
@doublem1975x
Жыл бұрын
@@7777ScionThose patrician armies in the 3rd century bc represented all of the patrician and land owning plebeian class combined in Rome. So maybe 100 k at most. They had to play Fabian tactics against Hannibal for a decade or they were going to become extinct. The Socii war increased that number into the millions. Octavian and Antony 20 legions vs Brutus and Cassius 18 legions or Severus 45 legions against Pescennius Niger would’ve been impossible in 3rd century bc.
@flaviusjconstantius
6 ай бұрын
@@7777Scionexactly. The Punic wars alone, should be enough evidence of that. Hell, even Pyrrhus was shocked and ultimately had to withdraw from Italy because of it.
@geordiejones5618
Ай бұрын
@@7777ScionBy relying on auxiliaries of their conquered allies and subjects. That's how they conquered the Mediterranean, but after this there were no more allies and only frontier subjects. That's why the imperial legions as early as Tiberius are almost exclusively frontier bred and trained. The Late Republic civil wars bring an end to Roman legions dominated by Italian soldiers. All the fuss over the Senate inadvertently led to the Iberians, Gauls, Greeks/Illyrians, Sicilians and North Africans all being trained and battle tested in the Roman style of warfare.
@jordangreene1385
7 ай бұрын
Fantasies of Rome, I never lived through, taking up my mind.
@michelwardynski6498
Жыл бұрын
Great video on a neglected event in Roman History!
@JustinCage56
Жыл бұрын
Always a great day when you upload!
@dr3wbert94
Жыл бұрын
These are amazing videos. Thanks for shedding light on some of the most forgotten periods of Rome’s history!
@bencemolnar7957
4 ай бұрын
I have an exam soon and these videos really helped me! I wish you would do a full roman history!
@randodrick7247
4 ай бұрын
Try the History of Rome podcast, very similar energy to this for a full history
@andychap6283
Жыл бұрын
This is such an under covered topic, thanks.
@7777Scion
Жыл бұрын
? Under-covered ... where? Certainly not in any history courses in universities all over the Western world.
@Constantine_Bush
Жыл бұрын
Continue the great work.BTW,would you consider doing a video about Emperor Constantine I?
@sotirisl9388
Жыл бұрын
He's back!!!
@Dontknowwhattoputhere347
Жыл бұрын
You made my day
@Serapeum
Жыл бұрын
Glad to hear it
@shannonbrookshire234
Жыл бұрын
thank you for your efforts
@davidhughes8357
Жыл бұрын
Very good . Thank you!!
@Nellynelzzz
5 ай бұрын
great video on some niche history
@LuizAlexPhoenix
8 ай бұрын
I am always half amazed that the bourgeoisie intelligentsia, in the form of republican liberism, decided to copy the Roman system to such an extent. The Social War is a prime example of it being incompetent and prone to civil war. Then again, as a step away from absolutism and towards the plutocratic oligarquies of today, it's understandable why they chose it. What baffles me are the common citizens, specifically those that learn Roman History yet do not learn *from* it.
@EtienneSturm1
Жыл бұрын
Very clear. Thanks! Will you explain in the next video the consequences of how the Senate is sidelining the votes from the Italian tribes?
@Serapeum
Жыл бұрын
Actually, this video is a remake of an older video that was part of a series on the Roman Republic I made; so, I already have a bunch of videos covering the aftermath of this period
@Warmaker01
6 күн бұрын
It was a stupid war that didn't need to happen but Rome was too arrogant to spread citizenship to their allies. Rome has relied on allied manpower. For every 1 man Rome sent to war, the allies together sent 3 more. Their allies had been pretty faithful to them even in the dark hours of the Second Punic War when Hannibal rampaged up and down the Italian peninsula destroying Roman armies left and right. The allies could have easily abandoned Rome and back Hannibal, but they didn't, and it was something that frustrated the great Carthaginian general. In the years after the Second Punic War, Romes allies contributed to the expansion of the Roman Republic. Yet here they are still being a step down from the Romans despite their blood being just as integral into making the Republic as large and as powerful as it was. The war did a lot of damage. It drained Rome's treasury. But also IMO, it made the idea of killing people that you once considered friends and allies even easier. Hell, just a few decades before the Social War, the Romans themselves had already crossed the line in finally doing political murders and assassinations. In my opinion, the Roman Republic did not die at the hands of Julius Caesar or his successor, Octavian. The Republic died with the killings, murders around the Gracchi for political ends, the competition and violence between Marius and Sulla, Sulla's bloody dictatorship, and how the Social War showed just how willing everyone was in killing each other and made it acceptable because it was happening so much. Let's also not forget the corruption of the Republic being on full display during the Jugurthine War 112-106 BC, not long before the Social War of 91-87 BC. Jugurtha famously bribed Roman senators to have things go his way. Actions that had negative effects for Rome herself, the deaths of Roman soldiers, but hey, it didn't matter because a bunch of Senators got rich anyways. Yeah, the Roman Republic died way before Julius Caesar even showed up as a blip on the political and military radar.
@carolinus7566
Жыл бұрын
If you've a dcord server it'd be great to share with ya there to supplement your work & research. These social wars are brought to their climax ultimately by julius caesar. That sentence was the theme used by rome & romeia till the times of the medici financed neopagan school of firenza. At this time the plutocratic 'republic' was resuscitated. Des cartes & the venetian & medici & 'humanist' (erasmus) (de vere aka oxford) themes run on about the glory of the struggle for liberty etc from these times. Its no mere coincidence either that the reformation immediately follows this period. Love what ya did here with this 10m vid!
@7777Scion
Жыл бұрын
No. The Social War was long over by the time of Caesar. In between was the Spartacan revolt, and other military situations. The conflict of Crassus, Pompey, Caesar were all about personal "dignitas" and the class conflicts between plebian and patricians. Had nothing to do with the 'allies' because they were all citizens by then. Caesar's dictatorship and the following civil wars were simply wars between great (as in, successful) generals clawing for personal power.
@GoogleUserOne
Жыл бұрын
Boom nice. I hear people whinging about this being similar to todays environment. (Always. Forever). Roma Invicta
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