I really like this idea of "next step" games list. Wouldn't mind seeing similar short lists later on with different starting games or even "sidesteps". And thank you for all the content you make!
@claytonnguyen5458
6 жыл бұрын
Rahdo love your channel, you have introduced me to so many new bigger games. Keep up the good work😁
@jyoung10
6 жыл бұрын
What a good list - appreciate the thought and time that went into coming up with these recommendations.
@brendonius6054
4 жыл бұрын
This video is exactly what I’ve been looking for! Ive managed to get my wife enjoying Gateway games now onto Next Step games! Thanks Rahdo.
@davekoehnlein4575
6 жыл бұрын
Very interesting list! I loved this one. Thank you for another awesome entertaining video Richard! Hope you and Jen and the pups are doing well :)
@joshyaks
6 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the well-thought-out video, RIchard! Biblios, The Quest For El Dorado, and Isle of Skye are all AMAZING games (and I've heard good things about Valeria Card Kingdoms, though I've only played the excellent Villages of Valeria in that series). In addition to The Quest For El Dorado, I'd highly recommend Clank! as a next-step deck builder.
@mattpburgess
6 жыл бұрын
Wow - putting out a lot of content today Richard!! Thank you! 😊
@Straddllw
6 жыл бұрын
My first modern boardgame: game of thrones, second: dead of Winter, third: Terra Mystica. I guess I missed the boat on gateway/next step games XD
@13shivan
6 жыл бұрын
Between 2 cities has such a genius concept...maybe I should check it
@clumsydad7158
6 жыл бұрын
it does sound cool... I never understood about it before
@benjamincarter6095
6 жыл бұрын
Enjoyed the list. Possible alternative to Fresco that I really enjoy using as a next step is Viticulture. Start with the base game to get them hooked, then use advanced board, then add in expansions.
@ricke1732
6 жыл бұрын
Good list! Some choices seemed a bit odd, but we don't watch Rahdo's videos for normalcy! Here are my thoughts on your picks: 10. Sushi Go -> Between Two Cities is a great choice. I would probably suggest Bunny Kingdom or Oceanos, though. 9. Splendor -> San Juan is a great game, but I would recommend Portal of Heroes. 8. Love Letter -> I don't see much of a connection between this and Biblios. I would probably recommend Hera and Zeus (or whatever the new reprint is called now). However, I think Biblios is an EXCELLENT next step for For Sale, which I think is a better Gateway Game than Love Letter (by a mile). Both games play in two distinct haves where the first half is all about building your hand of cards you'll need for the auction in the second half. 7. Stone Age/ Lords of Waterdeep -> Fresco is a perfect next step for these games. I would probably also suggest Kingsburg if they liked the dice use in Stone Age. 6. Dominion -> Quest for El Dorado is a great next step for basic, vanilla Dominion... But Dominion with even one expansion is more complex than El Dorado. My pick for a next step here would be Super Motherload. 5. King of Tokyo -> I think Escape is a bit of a stretch here. For Yahtzee style dice rolling and accumulation of special powers, I would suggest the classic Roll Through the Ages as a next step... Or possible Ancient Terrible Things. 4. Catan -> I haven't played Valeria Card Kingdoms, but it sounds like a good choice here. Usually I ask what they liked about Catan - if it's the player interaction and rolling dice for resources, I suggest Boomtown. If it's the building roads and settlements on a communal map, I recommend either Dark Horse or Milestones. 3. Pandemic -> I haven't played Big Book of Madness yet either, but this one seems very out of left field. I always suggest Forbidden Desert for a meatier next step in the Pandemic universe. 2. Carcassonne -> Isle of Skye is a perfect next step for this game. No complaints here. 1. Ticket to Ride -> I think Suburbia would be an excellent alternative next step for Carcassonne, but it's an extremely odd choice for TtR. I would recommend New York 1901, Airlines Europe, or Via Nebula.
@dougglug1
6 жыл бұрын
Really enjoyed this - thank you!
@guocaipan5838
6 жыл бұрын
Thanks for doing this! Love your analysis & explaination eventhough I am not so in to euro games. You are like the Deckard Cain in the world of board games :)
@rahdo
6 жыл бұрын
Hello my friend! Stay awhile and listen...
@Jonaelize
6 жыл бұрын
This was an awsome idea for a list. Really liked it. Oh, and my gateway games were Arkham Horror and Agricola.
@EclecticCamel
6 жыл бұрын
I enjoyed watching this list. I am perpetually measuring and weighing what really makes a good gateway and then next step, as I'm teaching games pretty often to newer gamers. I think you would have been okay skipping the correlations to gateway games as those were a little wonky in spots, but overall fun to watch / listen to. :) Edit: Biblios is a good call, but I would put it after another drafting game and an auction game like Fleet. I would use Elder Sign after King of Tokyo and Deus after Catan.
@bobnetherton4957
6 жыл бұрын
Thanks for doing this series. I'm always on the lookout for good recruiting games :-) Since Ticket to Ride is, at its heart, a set collection game, I like Herbaceous as a step up. It may seem odd at first, moving from a big board to a little box game, but they both feature set collection, card drafting, press your luck and a little bit of take. The difference is that in Herbaceous, you only get one chance to pot your cards and it kicks all of those mechanics up a notch in intensity. It is still easy to learn, so a Gateway Plus, but oh so difficult to master :-)
@rahdo
6 жыл бұрын
good call :)
@antgerfitz
6 жыл бұрын
Really Great idea for a video. My wife and I enjoy 7 Wonders Duel, so we must check out El Dorado. Also have to check out Fresco, and Suburbia.
@mikeb8454
6 жыл бұрын
Another great list Rahdo! Any chance you could do a top 10 list of your favorite deckbuilding games?
@rahdo
6 жыл бұрын
someday, but the voters keep choosing other stuff
@ko9
6 жыл бұрын
Excellent video, and excellent topic! Very good idea to talk about this, and open discussion about it. I think a lot of gamers would like to get more people excited about deep euro games, and it's often that you'll start with one little game they turn out to love. Very useful to think about where to take them next :-)
@isaiasvallejo7002
6 жыл бұрын
Wow! Thanks for including the funky choice of Valeria: Card Kingdoms! :)
@boardgamecloset
6 жыл бұрын
This was a fun list. Thanks for sharing this!
@jollyroger1009
6 жыл бұрын
My gateway game was Power Grid. An online forum recommended it as a step up from Monopoly.
@Vadimaster
6 жыл бұрын
My choices for next step: Deck building: Aeons End or Marvel Legendary Worker placement: Champions of Midgard Engine building: London
@rahdo
6 жыл бұрын
i seriously considered london :)
@Jonaelize
6 жыл бұрын
Since we have Aeons End, we are getting rid of all our other deckbuilding games.
@rahdo
6 жыл бұрын
yeah, i thought about AE, but it seemed like too much of jump. but i forgot about the cool "tutorial setup" thing it does. perhaps i spoke too soon...
@Jukejointjeze0n
6 жыл бұрын
I was really thinking about Champions of Midgard, but then realized I can teach is just as easily as the LoW. I would have said Manhattan Project.
@EclecticCamel
6 жыл бұрын
AE is def more of a 3rd step, I wouldn't call it a next step game. I wouldn't suggest Champions of Midgard only because it's not that great of a game.
@cromusz
6 жыл бұрын
Really great recommendations!
@AlexandreOliveiraMCZ
6 жыл бұрын
Amazing list, thanks a lot. Great video as always.
@jomibaco
6 жыл бұрын
Hi Rahdo, thanks a lot for this video in particular and for all of your runs thoughts. I'm going to buy 1 of this 4 games, which is your favourite? -The voyages of Marco Polo -Grand Hotel Austria -Vikings -Riverboat We liked a lot the game Azul so i was thinking another game from the author (vikings and riverboat) We own games like Isle of Skye, suburbia, castles of mad king ludwig, CCXL, kingsburg, stone age, takenoko, CV, caverna, orleans... Regards from Spain. P. S. I found a local store that has in stock Vikings, so the 4 games are available.
@rahdo
6 жыл бұрын
vikings is hard to get and i've never heard of a reprint, so i'd jump at that :)
@KSweeney36
6 жыл бұрын
I love Isle of Skye. I often play with my daughter
@EmiZViolet
6 жыл бұрын
Have you heard of Age of Rivals, rahdo? It's a drafting card game where everything that happens is automated. I've found it perfectly complex (new challenges are awesome too) and a fantastic two-player treat. Favorite phone game. Can be played free on Kongregate if anyone's interested.
@rahdo
6 жыл бұрын
sounds cool :)
@fearanarchy
6 жыл бұрын
Biblios is always a great recommendation. I usually teach For Sale first, but that is not a prime Gateway anymore. I would've said Splendor-> Century: Spice Road but I guess too close
@BrandonGraham
6 жыл бұрын
Splendor to Century is like baby-steps. Super tiny baby steps.
@oonwc
6 жыл бұрын
It's interesting how I have a different "next step" game for pretty much every one of your examples. 10. 7 Wonders. Obvious, really. While I like B2C, I think of it more of a city builder than a drafting game. I'd also have put Fairy Tale and Among the Stars before B2C as a next step to Sushi Go. 9. Century: Spice Road is the obvious choice, but I do like San Juan. 8. I just don't relate Biblios to Love Letter. My choices would be Coup or Shadow Hunters, but they're not for 2 players. Maybe Welcome to the Dungeon? 7. I prefer Viticulture, but Fresco's good too. 6. Haven't played El Dorado. I'd have voted for Clank!, maybe Dale of Merchants. 5. Yeah, Escape as a next step to KoT is a stretch. How about Alea Iacta Est (Order of the Gilded Compass), or Pandemic: the Cure? 4. V:CK seems to me like a next step to Machi Koro (is Machi Koro a next step to Catan?). My pick would be Roll for the Galaxy for the "roll to produce stuff" feel, or possibly even Concordia for the "cities on a map producing stuff" feel. 3. Gotta be Defenders of the Realm (or the Last Stand). BBoM is good, but I just don't think of it in relation to Pandemic. 2. Isle of Skye is a good pick, but isn't Delve the obvious next step? I'd even recommend Suburbia here, not for TTR. 1. Airlines Europe, Railways of the World or Via Nebula would be my picks.
@rahdo
6 жыл бұрын
10. i seriously considered it, but in the end, i liked that b2c offered such a different experience. 7W is basically a super advanced SG and like i said, i was trying to present folks with options that aren't just "more of the same" 9. reasonable suggestion, except i didn't really like the game, especailly at 2p. for my money, san juan is hugely superior :) 8. welcome to the dungeon is a good idea actually... my problem is i haven't played it, so i can't really include it on a list of games i recommend :) 7. considered that one, also seriously considered charterstone 6. i think race is better than clank (both great) and i like the addition of the board to shake things up, which dale doesn't have. 5. thought about pandemic the cure, but since i was already doing a next step from pandemic, i decided i wanted to include more new games. 4. i did think about concordia, but in the end, i really like the "look how the act of rolilng a die to generate goods can be so radically different", and since i really dislike MK, V:CK was the no brainer. 3. again, dotr is basically just a reskin of pandemic and adds dice and triples the length. i think it's important to give people something really different to expand their horizons, instead of more of the same. 2. good idea, but still not different enough for what i was going for. 1. i came so close to going with RotW. really close. VN i didn't think of... good suggestion :)
@bobnetherton4957
6 жыл бұрын
You make some very good suggestions. Completely agree on Welcome to the Dungeon (bluffing) and Century: Spice Road (race). And Valeria Card Kingdoms is very much Tiny Epic Machi Koro, so MK would be a perfect step up from Catan. What about Harbour as a gateway from Catan to La Havre as either resource management or worker placement (it is a nice blend of both in a simple game).
@JohnLudlow
6 жыл бұрын
I felt the same, though part of that is because I haven't played a ton of games, and partly because I have certain tastes and certain themes or styles just have no draw for me personally. I would choose Aeon's End to replace Dominion (or for the coop entry, I guess) because those the theme appeals to me and there's just so much strategy in that game.
@oonwc
6 жыл бұрын
I think we mainly differ on how closely related a next step game should be from the original game. Maybe I'm overly conservative when I try to ease new gamers deeper into the hobby, so I'll consider a larger leap next time. I'd be interested to hear if you've ever had a next step game fail because it was a bridge too far. The more I think about it, the more suggestions I have - Colony for KoT, any number of Tiny Epic games for Love Letter, Mystic Vale for Dominion, Arcane Academy for Carcassonne, etc. I'm beginning to think that you've just stuffed the number ones of 10 Top Ten lists into one list. Tom Vasel did a "Games Better Than..." series. I suspect you could have done a "Next Step To..." series with each of these games. :)
@JohnLudlow
6 жыл бұрын
I agree with Mystic Vale for Dominion - that's another good choice. Also the upcoming Edge of Darkness for Mystic Vale :)
@littleratblue
6 жыл бұрын
Something a little closer to King of Tokyo that might be good for some people is Deep Sea Adventure. I've seen people get pretty pumped up about it (and it doesn't go from being a 15 minute game to a 2 hour game, when you add more players!)
@rahdo
6 жыл бұрын
yeah, i've seen that one and have been really curious to try it out! :)
@205wrxsti
6 жыл бұрын
Mine gateway game was Power Grid. I think it's most logical step after Monopoly.
@jollyroger1009
6 жыл бұрын
205wrxsti It was mine too. And for the same reason, as a step up from monopoly. Great game.
@pasqualecirone9755
6 жыл бұрын
Was Isle of Skye in there? I saw TTR in it's place on the video.
@rahdo
6 жыл бұрын
yup, it's before the brief mention of TTR...
@TorIverWilhelmsen
6 жыл бұрын
If you want to roll dice to make sets in realtime, but still wants to hit the other players, there is also _Mystic ScROLLs_. Also, less stressful than Escape! simply because the realtime sequences last shorter (until a player calls STOP after using their last die).
@rahdo
6 жыл бұрын
re: the shorter play time, if project elite were available, i probably would have gone with that one...
@Heldermaior
6 жыл бұрын
A top 10 innovative mechanics would be awesome. Or top 10 games that are innovating the industry right now.
@rahdo
6 жыл бұрын
boy, that would be tough to do. there are so many innovations coming out every month, it'd be very tough to narrow it down to 10 amongst 1000's!
@Tellgryn
6 жыл бұрын
The one gateway gate next step game you left off Sheriff Of Nottingham, this game is the one that many can enjoy.
@benmecfslc2506
6 жыл бұрын
Rahdo focuses on 2 player friendly games - cannot imagine playing Sheriff with 2. There are hundreds of next step games, cannot catch them all - I would probably have Paris Connection as a next step to ticket to ride, Mystery Rummy as a next step to Gin Rummy/Lost Cities etc.
@rahdo
6 жыл бұрын
yup, every game i choose had to work well with the full range of 2-4 players (i meant to mention that in the video, but totally forgot to :))
@michaelgrayer7351
6 жыл бұрын
I must admit I would like to see an addendum to this list, something along the lines of "Top 10 Next Step Games that Rahdo Likes for Gateway Games that Rahdo Dislikes". For example (please excuse the educated guessing as to your tastes here) what if someone said "I really like Munchkin, what game could we play together?" Same goes for (say) Sheriff of Nottingham or The Resistance... or the one that I constantly struggle with, Cards Against Humanity.
@Daggerleep
6 жыл бұрын
Its humorous how much you dislike games with any meanness. Its comes through on this list quite clearly.
@rahdo
6 жыл бұрын
reasons why i try to make clear at faq.rahdo.com #6
@jerrodwarr9706
6 жыл бұрын
My next step recommendation for TTR is Hansa Teutonica
@rahdo
6 жыл бұрын
that's a big step, but i can see it working in the right circumstances :)
@jerrodwarr9706
6 жыл бұрын
rahdo I don’t think it’s much of a leap. Rule book is like 4 pages and very few actions to choose from. Plus it’s “less mean” because you can’t cut someone off of a route. Great two player variant that was later added as well. And maybe the best part is the instructional video with a muppet (seriously very bizarre yet funny)! :)
@danhk-ne8334
6 жыл бұрын
Rahdo, when are you gonna run through Dragonfire? I would love to know ur thoughts on it.
@rahdo
6 жыл бұрын
it's finally arrived, but my wife is away for another week, so i haven't had a chance to play it, and probably won't get it filmed until jan :( i did play a game of it solo though and really liked it. not quite as good as shadowrun, but otoh there's a lot of really pleasing additional content...
@danhk-ne8334
6 жыл бұрын
rahdo, thanks for answering!
@vancampingnerd3263
3 жыл бұрын
How many came here looking for list of Next Step Games that run on Steve Job's Next Cube? And got sadly disappointed..
@rahdo
3 жыл бұрын
afaik you are the first, so revel in your uniqueness!
@vancampingnerd3263
3 жыл бұрын
@@rahdo I do that somehow, funny thing is I owned an RPG/CCG/Board game shop in St.Louis on Hampton Ave and then moved it to St.Charles for many years up until 2012. But I happen to be very much more into classic PCs now that I live in the woods with no one to play with, lol.
@masterbridgemaster1
6 жыл бұрын
Wouldn't Century: Spice Road be a better example of a next step game after Splendor?
@rahdo
6 жыл бұрын
nothing next step about it. it would be a side step at best :)
@TorIverWilhelmsen
6 жыл бұрын
Well, the resource conversion adds one more element to what Splendor has, and puts your engine in your hand instead of on the table, but it's not that big step up.
@Tellgryn
6 жыл бұрын
Stone Age-Lords of Water Deep-Pillows of the Earth all near the same. I would play them in order Stone Age, then Pillows of the Earth and the final one Lords of Water Deep.
@oonwc
6 жыл бұрын
Is Pillows of the Earth the sequel where all the monks take a nap after having installed all the pillars?
@mobileuploads3623
6 жыл бұрын
Tellgryn Pillows 😂
@mkietzmann
4 жыл бұрын
Caveman village? LOL.
@mossydemon1984
6 жыл бұрын
Can't recommend book of madness unless a veteran of the game is hosting. I'm not new to board-gaming but the rule book needs a re-write, seemed tedious and confusing when I tried reading it.
@rahdo
6 жыл бұрын
really? hmm, i guess i should check it again. i didn't find it problematic though, but maybe i missed something?
@mossydemon1984
6 жыл бұрын
My SO and I sat down to play it at our LGS and after 15-20 minutes I still didn't have a clear idea of how the game played out, I remember some of the rules or sequences just not being very clear. I'm sure it's a fine game but I think the ladder would be a barrier for some.
@JohnLudlow
6 жыл бұрын
I've not played Book of Madness but the way the coop was described sounds similar to Aeon's End - you're all interacting and discussing all the time, and some of the cards affect other players so there's plenty of interaction. And particularly with the War Eternal update the rulebook isn't that bad, so that could be an alternative.
@mossydemon1984
6 жыл бұрын
I have Aeon's End / WE, great game :]
@rahdo
6 жыл бұрын
hmm, well tbh i'm not a very good judge of what's a good/bad rulebook, as i read so many of them i can usually 'read between the lines' and grok just about anything. :)
@benlauson555
6 жыл бұрын
It's pretty obvious rahdo has a biased for "helping" games, seems to shy away from "take that" games.
@mattlowder
6 жыл бұрын
So San Juan is a next step game, but this war of mine is a gateway? LOL
@rahdo
6 жыл бұрын
if you watched what i had to say, what exactly did you disagree with?
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