I used to be a pacifist; then someone started tea-bagging after they beat me in a video game, at which point I realized they were ontologically evil.
@crescendo5594
2 жыл бұрын
Getting tea-bagged in video games is a rite of passage. You should be grateful. It’s only then that you can reach a new plane of existence.
@matthewfiedler4739
2 жыл бұрын
@@Flyzo.0 yes it’s true a esports team don’t remember which one we’re playing valorant and tbagged after winning a point and the opposing team got offended and tried getting them banned from the event then people on Twitter tried getting games to implement a ban for sexual harassment ie saying tbagging is in that category
@nsaylor9
2 жыл бұрын
Sounds like you were playing a violent game. Pacifist claim deboonked.
@tylergmorales17
2 жыл бұрын
sarcastic terrorism or something idk
@amishshaggy
2 жыл бұрын
Most based take I've heard in a while. Stay strong brother/ sister
@BluntforceJ
2 жыл бұрын
Violence is never the answer. You can just kindly ask an attacker to stop.
@Gigakoopz
2 жыл бұрын
If they mug you, just say no. They legally cannot take your possessions. Jokes aside, the idealogy works but if she would of brought up the option for the victim to use lesser lethal force like for example taser and pepper spray.
@jonsmith590
2 жыл бұрын
@@Gigakoopz Destiny actually addressed that by forcing the kill only stipulation for testing the moral principal. Using less than lethal force goes into practicalities or what levels of violence could be used, which I don't think Destiny was particularly interested in because he would agree with that idea of escalating force would be the ideal.
@jimtreebob2096
2 жыл бұрын
Just submit to the mob
@blake9668
2 жыл бұрын
Actually, when Reverend Martin Luther King Jr. was attacked by Roy James at a Southern Christian Leadership Conference in 1962 in Birmingham, Alabama, MLK refused to fight back and ordered the audience members to back away. When Roy James was finished, he was stunned that no one in the crowd had intervened. He was so stunned that he let MLK get up and talk to him, man to man, and it was from this that Roy James began to see the world differently....without anyone inflicting violence on him.
@libertyprime1614
2 жыл бұрын
Violence was never an answer, but a question, and the answer is "yes".
@trololkhil9868
2 жыл бұрын
Everyone is a pacifist until they suffer at the hands of someone truly horrible.
@codyboone3658
2 жыл бұрын
Too true
@gunkid6368
2 жыл бұрын
Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth -Mike Tyson
@mojojoji5493
2 жыл бұрын
Ouchy make me thinky thinky- my dumbass
@Magni87
2 жыл бұрын
Soo... We're all pacifists?
@AmonGus-mi4rz
2 жыл бұрын
Such a good quote
@bluex610
2 жыл бұрын
Wow she really said rape is "Probably" worse than misgendering someone... Like both are on the same morality level, wtf 😆
@johnmorris8444
2 жыл бұрын
It’s a real toss up. Rape my body or rape my sense of self. I can’t say which is worse. /s
@sxint369
2 жыл бұрын
@@johnmorris8444 no way ppl are this braindead holy fuck 💀
@thenayancat8802
2 жыл бұрын
Well, if you consider that both exist on spectra - where rape is apparently anything from a drunken fumble on one end (where one party is sober enough to consent and the other isn't) versus being slammed in every orifice by 10 dudes on the other end, and misgendering can be anything from somebody calling you "them" instead of "she" on one end, and somebody purposely harrassing you and calling you a dude/f-slur etc... Yeah rape "probably" is worse.
@westingtyler1
2 жыл бұрын
yeah, I was actually annoyed she tried to give a calm and measured response to this. I would have said, "is that a joke? hurt my fefes with some words, or commit violent assault against me, which is worse? hm, let me think about it."
@sepro5135
2 жыл бұрын
I haven’t arrived at that point there, but if it’s just about the „probably“, destiny says probably in these types of cases A LOT, when they are similarly or more so extreme and he never goes back on his probably, so her doing it is not that wild, if we want to stay consistent.
@Stratocaster42
2 жыл бұрын
Being misgendered is "probably" worse than being raped? I don't think this person has any concept of how utterly horrific and damaging being raped is
@theaqua1517
4 ай бұрын
Being misgendered and being raped are two completely different things. One is mistaking someone the another is a horrific experience which causes possibly trauma for life ,pain ,PTSD,trust issues ,negative body image ,destroyed self-esteem,mental issues ,etc. to the victim who is/was forcebly violated against their will
@nilkonom
2 ай бұрын
being misgendered is rape, obviously
@PaperMache7
2 жыл бұрын
This kind of absurd ideology never holds up when you expand it, it just ends up with "We should allow society to become a living hell because life has infinity value".
@kevinligutom6994
2 жыл бұрын
Can't tell if you're talking about this debate or if you're talking about Pro-Lifers :D
@frankmarano1118
2 жыл бұрын
Ironically I find it a sick way to view the world. You're going to worry about the potential life of someone trying to kill you? In that case you're just too soft for this world.. might as well roll over & just call it quits now. & this isn't even getting to someone whos trying to kill your family or wife! Even more so they should be dealt with in any way that protects those important to you
@ab-hx8qe
2 жыл бұрын
@@synchronium24 I think your confused. The death penalty is a republican stance, democrats are only cool with murder if it’s an innocent baby.
@user-sr1pp7sv9q
2 жыл бұрын
@@kevinligutom6994 Not allowing women to murder their babies out of convenience is how we create a civilized society instead of the hell we’re already living in
@powercore2000
2 жыл бұрын
It's frustrating because this is the strawman pacifists position. A non brain dead pacifists is hesitant to use violence but still will in extreme cases, like rape obviously
@verbatim7508
2 жыл бұрын
pacifism is what i like to call a "chocolate teapot" philosophy-it's neat, aesthetically pleasing, and superficially agreeable, but completely melts down when you actually try to use it practically
@GaryThaScary
2 жыл бұрын
I love this.
@michaelvigil3436
2 жыл бұрын
That’s not always true though, have you seen the movie Hacksaw Ridge? It’s based on the true story of a pacifist who was on the front lines of WW2 who didn’t kill or harm anyone. In fact he saved over 70 people including his wounded enemies and won the Medal of Honor.
@nickhutcheson8580
2 жыл бұрын
@@michaelvigil3436 I think what separated him from others is his strong amount of courage. Most people wouldn't be able to do the things he did cause it took a strong amount of faith.
@broorb4104
2 жыл бұрын
@@michaelvigil3436 you could argue the analogy still holds. an entire army cannot be pacifist, nor was that medic from hacksaw working alone. you could argue he was employed by people, defended by people, and kept busy picking bodies up by people with guns.
@miracleifebigh688
2 жыл бұрын
@@michaelvigil3436good for him, that's a decision that he chose to make despite how hard it would be on him. But his beliefs don't scale, if his entire unit adopted his pacifism, they would all be doomed.
@okman7504
2 жыл бұрын
Pacifists when they think real world fights are like Undertale fights:
@okman7504
2 жыл бұрын
Just dodge the attack pattern bro
@sokmalinowy6038
2 жыл бұрын
not that far off, some people tried going for the genocide route a couple of years back.
@DeansDiscourse
2 жыл бұрын
Really puts the phrase “bullet hell” into a new context.
@GeekyC
2 жыл бұрын
Legit the first thing i thought of XD
@lozdbzmario
2 жыл бұрын
lol even Undertale understands sometimes violence is literally the only option ie Omega Flowey / Asgore.
@niclastname
2 жыл бұрын
She's already falling apart right at the start with the trap-condom thing. It's not retaliatory. It's not even an active defense. It's a passive deterrent that the aggressor is required to inflict upon their self by violating you. It's like saying that a home security system is unethical "because if someone breaks in, it sends the police over to arrest them, and their imprisonment causes more harm than the break-in". It's like the dumbest take ever. The aggressor is 100% _directly_ causing their own harm to their person. The condom-trap thing isn't a weapon. _The rapist has to do it to themself._ If your pacifism extends THAT far, I don't even know what to say. That couldn't be more the fault of the perpetrator if they tried. You basically can't even argue in favor of self-defense if that's too much...
@gabemord5088
2 жыл бұрын
"Most people don't want to be raped" No, literally nobody wants to be raped. If you want to be raped, it isn't rape, that's called consent 🤣
@fisharepeopletoo9653
2 жыл бұрын
For some reason this reminds me of an episode of SVU. I think it was SVU, definitely some crime show. There was a website for people with rape fantasies, where a person could sign up, give their info, tell how to get into their home, and then experience a rape fantasy through inviting someone in to do the deed. An angry husband in the middle of a divorce found one of these websites and signed his wife up, so the rapist in the situation was under the impression that this woman wanted it and in no way was actually doing something non-consensual but they were just playing out a fantasy. It was an interesting episode that's stuck with me to this day simply because of the circumstances being so strange. I'm pretty sure in that episode the actual raping offender walked free while the husband was locked up. In this very specific situation, if you were to have had a gun and killed the rapist, I wonder how that would turn out? A situation like this completely changes the dynamic
@imyournme6632
2 жыл бұрын
There is some crazy people out there bro.
@seanw7462
2 жыл бұрын
No it isn’t lol. That desire would have to be expressed for it to be consent
@chickenandksivideoreviewer9739
2 жыл бұрын
If someone drugged, kidnapped and assaulted you, but you ended up enjoying it after the fact, they wouldnt be a rapist?
@AndrewNajash
2 жыл бұрын
Well that’s not true, if someone breaks into your house and robs you but you secretly really like the idea of being robbed they still robbed you, the crime that was committed just happened to overlap with what you wanted, it doesn’t mean it was a consensual exchange of goods, it was still a robbery. If someone murders you but you secretly wanted to die it doesn’t make the murder consensual. If we indulge the hypothetical idea that some number of people actually want to be raped, that this is a fantasy that may exists in some people, it wouldn’t mean that what happened to them wasn’t rape, it would just mean the crime that was committed happened to overlap with what they wanted to some degree, it doesn’t mean it was a consensual interaction at all and it would still mean the attacker is still a rapist, they didn’t have access to this persons desires
@TheIcymushroom
2 жыл бұрын
In one of her deleted tweets she says rape is good and natural and required for functional society, in another (don't know if its deleted yet) she said that if you use of one of those anti-rape contraptions (that basically castrate the attacker lol) you deserve life sentence. Absolutely vile.
@synlion
2 жыл бұрын
What. The. Fuck. Who is this person?
@plaguemouse5549
2 жыл бұрын
Source?
@donk8961
2 жыл бұрын
Only way she got any action (I am saying she is a rapist)
@melody42069
2 жыл бұрын
why are the tweets always so much spicier than the conversations? i’m only 30min in & this seems way tamer than i’d expect reading that. sigh! (rhetorical question, we all know the answer)
@Figgy20000
2 жыл бұрын
This is too extreme for me to actually believe
@abshaheen5713
2 жыл бұрын
Destiny is on his “own your shit arc” I’m here for it. He defends all his shit and expects the same of others. I hope this arc never ends
@FrederikHaaning
2 жыл бұрын
Agreed. It's like that brief period with Vaush when he pressed him on socialism. Morally neutral vs morally good etc.
@Millennialaire
2 жыл бұрын
Wait, he's already past his hydrate after potty break arc?
@contentsniffer
2 жыл бұрын
Pretty based bro
@jeremias-serus
2 жыл бұрын
Amen
@sepro5135
2 жыл бұрын
@@Millennialaire I think it’s a dual-arc kinda situation
@galaxychar
2 жыл бұрын
It’s so disturbing watching someone view rape as an ‘inconvenience’ and constantly downplay what it is and does to a person. I honestly think Rose doesn’t view it as a big deal and that is much more of a reason for her mindset here than any sense of morality. It comes across like she has some sort of incel past/resentment against women behind this as I can’t reason her word choices here otherwise. Edit: Oh my fucking god, she really thinks someone cutting your arm with a knife is worse than rape.
@skullingtonfx4441
2 жыл бұрын
She might be an incel. This is also her fetish... her head ain't on right
@bearythebear69
Жыл бұрын
she obviously has a mental delay, look at her posture she also has the low IQ eye area.
@yourancientancestor
6 ай бұрын
I'm starting to this she has some personal connection to this topic, maybe she was raped and isn't granting herself any empathy for whatever reason and feels the need to project this mentality to everyone on earth, or she is a rape apologist/wants to engage jn rape, or possibly something else entirely. But this is how I hear her defenses bc it feels purely emotional
@shattered7579
2 ай бұрын
@@yourancientancestor exactly
@DorkoDoes
2 жыл бұрын
The arguement she’s making is laughable and she’s only making it cause of the attention she’s gotten from it. She can’t even make a strong case 🤦♂️
@wandarah
2 жыл бұрын
Exactly.
@thetherapist53
2 жыл бұрын
"This is tricky for me." "Maybe I'm just weird." "I've gotten a lot of blowback for this." Yeah, this is what happens when you hold an inherently absurd and irrational position.
@keithfilibeck2390
2 жыл бұрын
this is what a REAL contrarian looks like, I'd almost be impressed if they could hold on to it to its natural conclusion, but this person would break the moment someone was beating on them and wouldn't stop and they also had a way to instantly kill the aggressor at any time.. they'd push that button in a minute.
@mikethered4864
2 жыл бұрын
She claims to have done other debates before, and im very curious to watch them. Because this is by far one of the easiest debates Destiny has ever had, she was backpedaling and unable to defend herself under the most BASIC critical questioning.
@haydens5321
2 жыл бұрын
when you dig your heels into a stance that you haven’t spent much time thinking about
@Gigakoopz
2 жыл бұрын
What is the irrational position?
@Paradoxonification
2 жыл бұрын
@@Gigakoopz That you need to respond to violence with the exact amount of violence.
@IAmVenix
2 жыл бұрын
Calling this person a pacifist is pretty charitable, their ideology seems more in line with cowardice.
@keithfilibeck2390
2 жыл бұрын
delusional empath, someone who holds so much empathy, it actually causes more overall harm to good people, these are the most dangerous people to get power in any place, as they are so virtuous and so delusional, they can't be bartered with and will never give mercy or bend on their tyranny.
@galaxychar
2 жыл бұрын
@@keithfilibeck2390 You hear her calling rape an inconvenience and think her problem is too much empathy? I think she just doesn’t care about rape.
@skullingtonfx4441
2 жыл бұрын
@@galaxychar it's her fetish so she imagines it's enjoyable
@keithfilibeck2390
2 жыл бұрын
@@galaxychar yes, she has so much that she empathizes with criminals and rapists, people with too much empathy find a way to feel for the worst dregs of society, its very weird.
@airyrose9568
2 жыл бұрын
@@keithfilibeck2390 i don’t think it’s empathy.. or if it is then maybe she is dangerous? because to my understanding empathy is to “feel” or be able to share/understand another’s feelings. if she’s empathizing with rapists and is doing those things - feeling for them, sharing or understanding their feelings. that’s real bad.
@Seaneey
2 жыл бұрын
Arguing with a pacifist is the worst
@Jaryism
2 жыл бұрын
1:05:00 Caller Question: "Is MIS-GENDERING someone WORSE than raping someone?" Girl: hmmm.... sigh, that's a good question, well.. as a trans person obviously misgendering someone is really bad, we have a lot of terfs that are just really mean....... BUUUT, I guess I will say, the psychological impacts of getting raped "might" be a little bit worse in the long run. Me: -.-' Am I even living in the same reality as these people? Who are these people, seriously? Holy shit, fucking duh! YES, getting violently RAPED against your will by someone is MUCH MUCH worse than someone saying a "he" or "she" on accident to someone who'd prefer a different word, wtf dude.
@Gchildwarrior
2 жыл бұрын
A softball question that is an instant no, but she turned it into a certified bruh moment
@darkaquatus
2 жыл бұрын
She doesn't believe in morality, yet she keeps using moral arguments to defend her position. That's why almost every single one of her positions and arguments are self-contradictory. This debate is a waste of time, because she's like a child who has never experienced life in any significant way. Her privilege is showing to the point where she can no longer make the distinction between good and evil. Like they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
@CrazyIrishmen7
2 жыл бұрын
Well said 👏
@tramarthomas6105
2 жыл бұрын
She's a waste of time
@idkhbtfmandnowimsad994
2 жыл бұрын
One of the only good things from this was that she was engaging in the hypotheticals and at least trying to answer. That made it a little more bearable, however dodgy her perspective was.
@williamself1224
2 жыл бұрын
It would have been nice if she believed in a brush.
@williamself1224
2 жыл бұрын
And a hair dryer
@RafaAnto
2 жыл бұрын
Just finished watching the "debate". Very lukewarm if anything, Destiny basically had to baby her into trying to figure out her position on the spot (Don't know how many times Destiny reiterated: "That's a question of practicality, no morality"), which I would say she didn't. Her position is just "I don't like it when people die" and not much more.
@Iaksones
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah I'm 12 minutes in underwhelmed and looking in the comments to figure out if this is going to be worth my time, going to make me better able to understand or communicate my super mainstream positions (defensive and offensive violence aren't weighed the same morally). It's looking like no, she's not worth a damn.
@ar8590
2 жыл бұрын
For real this is so stupid. This woman has like the mind of a 10 year old.
@joycewible8816
2 жыл бұрын
Pretty mind-boggling to me that someone who has never been raped can say with their whole chest "rape isn't that bad" 😑
@Gchildwarrior
2 жыл бұрын
I'm fortunate to never had that happen to me and I KNOW it's wrong on so many levels based on upbringing and media. The F is wrong with this idiot?
@shaggystonerable
2 жыл бұрын
Watching someone with this much privilege try to meander real life situations they have no clue about is really painful. She is a fine example of a trans person not being at the bottom of the totem pole.
@blake9668
2 жыл бұрын
How are you privy to her personal life?
@shaggystonerable
2 жыл бұрын
@@blake9668 Twitter, her own streams, debates with other content creators, etc. Basically, her own words.
@lou9511
2 жыл бұрын
I didn't realize she was Trans, that makes a lot of the transphobic sounding comments make more sense 😂 I figured somehow this debate touched on Trans issues or something I'm only halfway through
@blake9668
2 жыл бұрын
@@shaggystonerable That might give you some insight into her character, but it doesn't give you insight about her personal life. Unless you were with her 24/7, you can't definitely say that she's never been in [blank] situation. Do keep in mind that we all react to different events differently, and the same is true when it comes to trauma.
@shaggystonerable
2 жыл бұрын
@@blake9668 she's not going to sleep with you Blake.
@Karen_Marie
2 жыл бұрын
She's going to be so embarrassing about this in a few years. You can tell she knows she's wrong, but is just too emotionally invested in the virtue of her stupid position to admit the error.
@mielipuolisiili7240
2 жыл бұрын
Would you like to talk to the manager about it?
@Karen_Marie
2 жыл бұрын
@@mielipuolisiili7240 yes please, have him call me but only if he's at least an 8.5.
@mielipuolisiili7240
2 жыл бұрын
@@Karen_Marie What if he's a she tho? 🤔
@Karen_Marie
2 жыл бұрын
@@mielipuolisiili7240 then no.
@adrycough
2 жыл бұрын
@@mielipuolisiili7240 He wouldn't be a she, as he's a manager. Dummy.
@Chukwu_TC
2 жыл бұрын
I wish he had this debate with someone better at debating. It seemed like she was learning her arguments as they spoke about it
@the_inquisitive_inquisitor
2 жыл бұрын
That's the only way to hold her position.
@crescendo5594
2 жыл бұрын
It’s simply a shoddy moral position. He said it basically right away, that to follow the logical path, she would have to either admit her stance has contradictions and she’s satisfied with that fact, or, she has to lean fully into the logic wherein she says murder is always worse than anything else, without exception.
@mielipuolisiili7240
2 жыл бұрын
Anyone who is smart enough to be good at debating would have to realize that this is too absurd of a position to defend.
@deebo429__
2 жыл бұрын
The worst part is she says shes talked about this before. How? How has no one provided the littlest pushback to show her it's deranged. It took like 3 questions to get her to start caving
@mielipuolisiili7240
2 жыл бұрын
@@deebo429__ Dylan gave her plenty of pushback but she's really good at squirming out of any disagreenment without having to either change her positions or provide good arguments for them.
@shadowwizarddrip
2 жыл бұрын
If a man was arguing this woman's position he would be called a misogynist
@BluntforceJ
2 жыл бұрын
Technically, it is a ma- never mind.
@shadowwizarddrip
2 жыл бұрын
@@BluntforceJ uh oh
@murdoch3396
2 жыл бұрын
I’m only 20 minutes into this debate, but I already get the feeling that she only takes this position because it’s avant-garde and gets her attention on Twitter. It didn’t seem like she thought through her original positions at all.
@iamthekulture3822
2 жыл бұрын
I thought we left pacifism in middle school wtf?
@2wenty256
2 жыл бұрын
lol yeah
@stevena.7022
2 жыл бұрын
Some of my best fights were in middle school.
@the_inquisitive_inquisitor
2 жыл бұрын
@@CharlieKellyEsq I understand that you have things that I want. Give them to me.... or else
@mielipuolisiili7240
2 жыл бұрын
I'm pretty sure there are also non-retraded forms of pacifism where the right to self defence is respected.
@axson8
2 жыл бұрын
I left pacifism back when I was 7 playing Runescape. She said she'd be my GF guys, I gave her 1500 gold. Never again
@dermywermy080
2 жыл бұрын
Self Defense is a human right in my book. I fundamentally believe if someone is violently aggressing on you, you have the explicit right to end that person. Anything else looks like hell, and alows criminals to do whatever they want.
@DefinitelyNotAMachineCultist
2 жыл бұрын
It's fascinating how people conflate violent (justified) self-defense with _initiation_ of violence and _retaliatory_ use of force (i.e., retribution after a crime is already over). Des mentioned that if someone got wronged, them hunting down the wrongdoer personally isn't something he's onboard with (mostly). He's explicitly about defending self-defense, while trying to avoid putting the burden of “proportionate” use of force on the victim of an aggressor. The state being a monopoly on the justified _initiation of force_ or the justified _retaliatory use of force_ (and providing _collective defense_ on a regional level) does not mean that _self-defense_ has no place in a civilized society. Surveillance is not security, and emergency services are only minutes away when seconds count. I think we need a new term like “crime denier” to describe people who don't acknowledge this…
@dermywermy080
2 жыл бұрын
@@DefinitelyNotAMachineCultist it is a strange phenomenon. I think people just fundamentally don't understand aggression and when the correct time to protect yourself is. It might have to do with the fact we have lived in such a peaceful time for to long.
@DefinitelyNotAMachineCultist
2 жыл бұрын
@@dermywermy080 I'm betting that “energy illiteracy” & “crime illiteracy” are going to become bigger issues going forward. A large chunk of first-world (and occasionally privileged third-world) people don't understand the importance of things as basic as energy security for survival or deterrence for crime reduction. These things are on the same level (or almost the same level) of importance as agriculture for civilization. I was losing my damn mind a while ago. I was arguing with a greenie about why harsh penalties are needed for anyone seriously attempting to sabotage a power plant. That's the case even if they didn't directly harm a single human in the process leading up to the final act of sabotage. Seriously, I ain't arguing for locking people up for littering, illegal copying or even stealing a candy bar here. You're literally putting lives at risk by cutting off the grid abruptly, but some people refuse to accept that. The FBI even announced in 2006 that it considered ecoterrorism to be one of the greatest domestic security threats facing the US. There are ruthless bandits and, even worse, _nutjobs_ out there who have become hooked on causes detached from reality (to give their wasted lives meaning). They can only be dealt with through dialogue and reason _after_ they cut out their wannabe thug shtick.
@DefinitelyNotAMachineCultist
2 жыл бұрын
@@dermywermy080 I mention both of those issues as even an average third-world illiterate understands the importance of energy and defense in the same way they appreciate agriculture. It's only midwits in the most safe and secure societies on the planet that lost touch with the basics they take for granted.
@skullingtonfx4441
2 жыл бұрын
She has a fetish for it She should only apply this logic to herself
@SaltyReverend
2 жыл бұрын
It's always terminally online people who only have face to face interaction with real humans once a week or less that say shit like she does lol
@deussivenatura5805
2 жыл бұрын
You just discribed me perfectly, I don't agree with her retarded views though.
@bokajon
2 жыл бұрын
aren't you yourself terminally online Vastil?
@the_inquisitive_inquisitor
2 жыл бұрын
@@sw3783 I don't even know what that question means.
@brain7890
2 жыл бұрын
When she kept harkening back to peoples fantasies on twitter to prove points? Not even using real instances of violence to justify her point
@SaltyReverend
2 жыл бұрын
@@the_inquisitive_inquisitor Yeah I figured when I typed my comment these replies would get pretty crisp lmao
@PhilDM
2 жыл бұрын
this person isn’t a pacifist, they’re complicit with evil.
@biggerdoofus
2 жыл бұрын
I think it'd be best if "pacifism" was about universally reducing violence when practical rather than a personal refrain from violence. I don't know if that'd still be considered "pacifism" though. In this case, the moment one's own death becomes the risk, restricting options is just martyrdom in vain. Meanwhile, reducing the instances to begin with would be far more effective at reducing violence.
@glumdrop4672
2 жыл бұрын
As far as I'm aware, pacifism just means you see violence as a last resort, not that you should never fight back ever, even to defend yourself..
@FishForSalmon
2 жыл бұрын
That's exactly what a pacifist is. A person capable of great violence, but chooses to avoid aggression and deescalate situations without using violence. Violence is a last resort. If you're incapable of violence, you're not a pacifist, you're just harmless.
@swordyshield
2 жыл бұрын
yea that was my understanding as well, crazy to see someone believe that you literally cannot protect yourself even if getting like violently R**ed
@dameionarutogaming9728
2 жыл бұрын
like the main purpose of a lot of martial arts, simply as a last resort, not just to go around challenging people to fight them
@Nightknight1992
2 жыл бұрын
@@dameionarutogaming9728 yes, a lot of them come with an inherently pacifist philosophy, they just equip you with the tools for protection and self betterment
@PressA2Die
2 жыл бұрын
@@FishForSalmon PEACEFUL, That quote you just butchered is for PEACEFUL people not pacifists. A Pacifist is someone who would not resort violence under any circumstances, not a last resort.
@brain7890
2 жыл бұрын
She literally continues to agree that people can be justified in defending themselves. The amount of times he’d ask something and she goes “well I’d have to think about that” then why are you even here debating if you have no opinion on thjs
@subblonde3101
2 жыл бұрын
She just doesnt think rape is that big of a deal.
@hornfan722
2 жыл бұрын
Just a masterclass in exploring someone’s philosophy through questions and unveiling it’s absurdity in real time- even she knew she was wrong by the end
@Tavat
2 жыл бұрын
I guess so. But then again, she’s arguing (perhaps) from a more real-world position with circumstances that actually occur, which creates grey areas. Then again, her pacifist position seems absolutist, so that’s a pretty difficult position to defend when given hypotheticals.
@barahng
2 жыл бұрын
@@Tavat Using violence in self defense to prevent your own death or injury (or of a loved one) does actually occur though, it happens all the time. Her position sounds like one you would only take if one has never experienced unwanted physical aggression. Ironically she can only have that experience because we live in a liberal society with rule of law (relatively) and there are things like police which are willing to use violence to enforce the law which protects her and removes her personal need for self defense.
@whatNtarnation90
2 жыл бұрын
@@Tavat in real life, if you threaten someones life against their will, you forfeit your own right to live. Its as simple as that. Her positioning is not based on reality what so ever. The rape thing for example, if someone is willing to rape you, which we can all agree with her that rape is not as bad as death........ except if a rapist is willing to rape, youre really going to be such a fool you let them rape you, despite the fact they could also kill you after...... i bet she is also a communist, because in a perfect world communism works, but not if you put to brain cells together
@Nyarlathotep_Flagg
2 жыл бұрын
Wouldn't call it a "masterclass", but she was quite a prime example. And it was not that hard to unravel her reasoning.
@derekjetter4039
2 жыл бұрын
@@Nyarlathotep_Flagg what about a level 1 harm and retaliating with a level 10 harm. Explain the ethics of that.
@steco5441
2 жыл бұрын
Easiest debate of all time
@southernlogicyt
2 жыл бұрын
Why does it feel like this woman views grape as just another form of sex rather than violently violating someone against their will
@Onthebrink5
2 жыл бұрын
Because it is the worst flavor of Kool Aid.
@ryanoconnor3454
2 жыл бұрын
There is just no ethical or rational justification for her side and it shows
@deebo429__
2 жыл бұрын
It's only deontological. "life is sacred because life is sacred"
@potato-vh7ks
2 жыл бұрын
@@deebo429__ ??? what deontological philosopher has ever said that "life is sacred because life is sacred"? did you mean circular?
@deebo429__
2 жыл бұрын
@@potato-vh7ks no it's deontological because it's valuable because it's a rule. The outcomes of the rule don't make it just, it being a rule means it's just. Don't murder your rapist because murder is wrong because life is sacred. The rule is life is sacred, you should care about it because it's a rule not because of what the rule does for you
@potato-vh7ks
2 жыл бұрын
@@deebo429__ yes rules are what is valuable in deontological ethics, but what I was trying to get at is how do you arrive at the rule "life is sacred"? from a categorical imperative or what? deontological ethics don't just arbitrarily choose its rules.
@deebo429__
2 жыл бұрын
@@potato-vh7ks I have no idea where she's grounding her life is sacred argument, but it's the deepest she gave for the arguments had here. I don't think she's thought it through to that far, but it's clear she's not evaluating her ethical considerations in the outcomes of those considerations, but only in life being preserved above all.
@fleewilly5709
2 жыл бұрын
8:30 Yeah, and the vast majority of epar victims require hospitalization afterwards. If one of the two people in the scenario is going to be hospitalized either way, better it be "attacker in hospital after unsuccessful attempt" than "victim in hospital after enduring assault."
@Dhrazor
2 жыл бұрын
I think rape(as any other type of torture) worse than murder... so I think my stance is pretty obvious on this... and yes rape is extreme, it is up there with setting someone on fire or throwing a bucket of acid on them or mutilating their genitals...
@AndrewNajash
2 жыл бұрын
The more pacifists there are the more people I can beat in a fight and therefore the less soy I am, I love pacifism but not for myself
@the_inquisitive_inquisitor
2 жыл бұрын
I agree: I'm the only person who should be allowed to own guns.
@Muddabitch
2 жыл бұрын
Based
@andrewcox5873
2 жыл бұрын
I say the same thing about gun rights. I hope they ban all new gun sales, because I've already got tons of them
@the_inquisitive_inquisitor
2 жыл бұрын
@@andrewcox5873 I too would like to rob and pillage with impunity. I can make my own guns from scratch, powder and ammunition and all. Banning all sales just means my pipe shotgun is the baddest weapon on the block.
@brain7890
2 жыл бұрын
The fact that she used the sentence “people tweet about wanting to kill pedophiles” instead of real instances of violence to prove a point is bizarre
@crescendo5594
2 жыл бұрын
If someone wants to use an appeal to emotion fallacy, using pedophiles as the source is perhaps the worst possible option. She’d be better off using the baby Hitler time-travel analogy than the pedophile one.
@PEJK6771
2 жыл бұрын
I think pedos should be dropped into a woodchipper. (After a fair trial of course)
@creepyjesus1471
2 жыл бұрын
They seem like they spend a lot of time inside on twitter and have never experienced a violating situation before. Or maybe they have and are coping hard. Idk
@wolfmayner6274
2 жыл бұрын
Welcome to 2022 where people live on the internet more than they do in the real world. It truly is bizarre.
@adrycough
2 жыл бұрын
How do people get addicted to twitter? It's so boring and lame
@relevantusername3342
2 жыл бұрын
Man that introduction is insane, people who have never experienced hardship are insanely blind. I bet 100% of rape victims would disagree with this person.
@emptea4437
2 жыл бұрын
I feel like this person just genuinely doesn't really know what real rape looks like. Just the fact that she draws the line at physical harm as if rape can't be physically very harmful tells you everything you need to know.
@Xenor999
2 жыл бұрын
It is physically harmful but not as much as murder.compartively you need a lot of physical pain to die and majority of rape victims don't suffer that much as compared to like pain of getting killed and also getting their whole lifetime taken away from them.if u ask a rape survivor after their recovery which is possible for most of the cases atleast to the point that they want to live and not to die,the women would most likely say that she is better off now and wants to live life rather than saying that it would be better if she was killed rather than raped.
@emptea4437
2 жыл бұрын
@@Xenor999 she keeps saying that when someone's trying to physically harm you like beating you up (without killing you) or cutting off your arm then killing them in self defense is a lot more justified because "rape isn't as extreme as physical harm"
@falseprophet1024
2 жыл бұрын
9:00 She is fine with a device that stops rapists, but only if it doesnt hurt the rapist? Like what in the actual fuck?
@mikaelst.vixenberg475
2 жыл бұрын
Same. I was like "Then wtf is the point of the device, it would make the rapist even more pissed, if it can't even incapacitate him/her in some way".
@chrish344
2 жыл бұрын
Dude please bro don’t use violence bro please bro just talk it out please, just let them attack you bro please
@BattieGames
2 жыл бұрын
I fully trust destiny on the ethics around rape. Since destiny is a woman's name
@tinyclown799
2 жыл бұрын
I don’t know how someone can simultaneously have a rape fetish - or any fetish which involves a highly taboo/controversial act - and then also have an opinion that involves that fetish which is also highly controversial, without having the introspection to realise you might be biased. Rose has stated she just wants to do whatever for clout, I think she knows she’s self-knowingly wrong and engaging in some incredibly disgusting behaviours for selfish reasons. Wilfully choosing to be a bad person and I hope she never makes it.
@531d4
2 жыл бұрын
It seems like most of her motivation for the arguments is she hears an action someone takes in defense and goes “that seems really violent though”.
@KonigGustavAdolph
2 жыл бұрын
Why is it so hard for people to distinguish between actions taken to dissuade an action against you and "punishment". This argument is used all the time with shootings.
@lil10dot
2 жыл бұрын
idk what you're responding to but there's no way you think contemporary preventive actions are divorced from punishment or r*venge
@KonigGustavAdolph
2 жыл бұрын
@@lil10dot Funny, the legal system literally does this every single case. Most specifically I am speaking of the "____ isn't supposed to be a capital offense!!" folks. The dude killed in the bodega in NYC did not die as "punishment" for trying to steal chips or yelling at Jose Alba. Michael Brown wasn't killed as "punishment" for strong-arm robbery.
@damnedifido1062
2 жыл бұрын
I saw the thumbnail and I’m like “I beg your pardon?”
@M0nILP
2 жыл бұрын
Her position can be summarized: 1. rape really ain’t that bad (and women need to shut up about it) 2. yes you can kill if you die otherwise 3. yea you arm is pretty important you can kill there too 4. life no matter how miserable is the most valuable thing which connects her perfectly to anti abortion views
@AdamAlbilya1
2 жыл бұрын
"One who's merciful towards cruel people, could seamlessly end up being cruel towards merciful people..." - She surely isn't there yet in principle, and hopefully would never get there as well; nonetheless, the pragmatic results of embracing/exercising such a naive view, put into application within our horribly immoral world-however morally pure it might repackage itself-would massively backfire on the expenses of innocent people.
@zarbworld
2 жыл бұрын
In a world where everyone inhabits her ideology, all it takes is one person to think “I can do something utterly horrible and not only will it be to my advantage, but I will also get away with it.” Not only would that person be smart, but they wouldn’t even necessarily be in the wrong because nobody fulfilled their moral obligation to stop said person under the presumption that any act of aggression is inherently morally detestable.
@StollentrollAce
2 жыл бұрын
Sounds like the movie Demolition Man 👍 oh and true!
@Gigakoopz
2 жыл бұрын
You realize that lesser lethal weapons exist, right? You realize that, right?
@4thcolour288
2 жыл бұрын
A trans woman saying "rape isn't extreme"? Curious
@xoxothx
2 жыл бұрын
Very interesting.
@zestylem0n
2 жыл бұрын
This sounds like someone that's been living a completely sheltered and unremarkable life and has no clue what any of the things she's talking about actually feel like. She's missing such an integral part of the human experience that she can't fathom the amount of suffering she's deeming acceptable in order to preserve human life.
@LamesAMA
2 жыл бұрын
Justifying her pro life position by saying rapists having to pay child support is legitimately unhinged. I don't think this person has ever talked to a rape victim.
@fisharepeopletoo9653
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah I'm a pacifist, you wanna fight about it?!
@SgtEaglefort
2 жыл бұрын
in addition to the mental/psychological/spiritual damage that happens during rape, physical damage can happen like skin tears among other things. even irreversible damage
@Nofixdahdress
2 жыл бұрын
My parents are like this. Actually asked once when I was like 10 what they'd do if they had to kill someone to keep them from killing me. My dad said, and I quote, "I'd really want to, but I hope I would have the strength to not resort to violence."
@peterbarlow5709
2 жыл бұрын
27:37 “I don’t value a dog’s life as much as a human’s life” okay now she has officially crossed a fucking line
@hhhapz
2 жыл бұрын
Felt like Rose Mulet didn't even know what their own position was.
@rayman878
2 жыл бұрын
that's because her position is indefensible
@the_inquisitive_inquisitor
2 жыл бұрын
The only way to defend her position is "stupidity and/or willful ignorance"
@sigmundsigma6888
2 жыл бұрын
@@rayman878 I agree
@drewsimone100
2 жыл бұрын
Rape? murder? pacifism? self-defense? can't we talk about the real issues like being ratio-ed on Twitter?? L+ Ratio + Destiny is a girl's name + Luh black people forever
@distrom-sc254
2 жыл бұрын
hell yeah tell it like it is Ron Jeremy
@glumdrop4672
2 жыл бұрын
Ron knows what's up
@carnivorous_vegan
2 жыл бұрын
I luuuuh buullaaahhh peeeppooo
@Johnmoonman
2 жыл бұрын
I feel like she's trying and failing to distinguish between morally good and morally permissible. Things can be permissible without being good. There's moral gray area.
@kento2771
2 жыл бұрын
What’s an example of something that’s morally good?
@Johnmoonman
2 жыл бұрын
@@kento2771 I'd say altruistic things like feeding homeless people is a safe bet
@damiennewman1992
2 жыл бұрын
This was such an odd conversation. She basically agreed with him in every way from the start, but then says 'naah it's probably still bad' at the very end. Then repeats it.
@lancerkain
2 жыл бұрын
"everyone should allow trauma to protect the lives of predators, rapist lives matter" This lady, probably
@zthreetwo9874
2 жыл бұрын
Bro what
@skillcosby3095
2 жыл бұрын
Pacifism is the ideology of the sheltered.
@carlquitcheefin
2 жыл бұрын
I dont think that she's ever been robbed or sexually abused
@pazmello
2 жыл бұрын
Enjoy Destiny while we have him. We’re gonna miss him when he’s gone.
@Gigakoopz
2 жыл бұрын
Wdym when he is gone? Are you foreshadowing a ban?
@pazmello
2 жыл бұрын
@@Gigakoopz I hope not. I’m just saying he’s a dope mind and we gotta appreciate him while we got him.
@1Nevergone
2 жыл бұрын
I have NEVER heard worse arguments from someone with horrific points than what this girl was saying.
@AyakaVR
2 жыл бұрын
She looks like Chloe Grace Moretz but after a 7 year meth stint.
@SeverelyGlitchy
2 жыл бұрын
Uncalled for... But not precisely incorrect.
@AyakaVR
2 жыл бұрын
@@SeverelyGlitchy I read it back after I posted it and yea it was a little mean. I humbly apologize to Chloe.
@SeverelyGlitchy
2 жыл бұрын
@@AyakaVR lol
@sharonbalbina825
2 жыл бұрын
The anti-raype device is to me like holding a knife and someone willingly walks into it
@ShouVertica
2 жыл бұрын
Ah yes, going into a debate with zero preparation and no thought devoted to your position, what could go wrong?
@Gchildwarrior
2 жыл бұрын
"It's super easy, barely an inconvenience."
@DrownedLamp
2 жыл бұрын
Punch first, ask questions while punching.
@SeverelyGlitchy
2 жыл бұрын
Don't forget more punching after you've got your answers to those questions.
@the_inquisitive_inquisitor
2 жыл бұрын
I don't get paid to fistfight criminals; I might shoot one for free though.
@fibblestix
2 жыл бұрын
actually getting modern day debates with the sonic inflation meme will be the highlight of my year!
@lustrazor44
2 жыл бұрын
Tell me you live a sheltered life without telling me you’ve lived a sheltered life
@Cid_1
2 жыл бұрын
This literally rotted my brain
@MrUltiblood
2 жыл бұрын
So, this confirms it. Any time someone says "As a trans person" it ACTUALY means "As a sheltered white kid from a rich or at the very least upper middle class household who has never faced adversity and had to make my own cuz I was bored"
@healingv1sion
2 жыл бұрын
I've never known a man that understood the concept of man on woman or man on kid r word so clearly. Good on ya Destiny.
@ithinkimhipster502
2 жыл бұрын
Violence is never the answer, its the question and the answer is always yes.
@ZRockwell
2 жыл бұрын
I really enjoyed this debate. Props to her for being good faith and following destiny’s lead. I don’t know why people are being so hard on her, she seems opening to learning and adjusting.
@TonyCox1351
2 жыл бұрын
People are being hard on her because she both held a ridiculous position and was impotent at defending it, but I thought the debate elicited some really interesting discussion and it was interesting hearing Destiny explain esoteric moral hypotheticals. She came in good faith and made for a great stream, I’m glad she came on
@Alaric11
2 жыл бұрын
Tell me you've never had to deal with any real struggle or violence in your life without telling me you've never had to deal with any real struggle or violence in your life.
@Ajyia
Жыл бұрын
She's the prime example of a person who has an ideal that she clearly can't defend against the challenges of reality, but has romanticized the ideal so much that she does not want to let go of it.
@bearimo2867
2 жыл бұрын
You know what, I completely disagree with her takes but Rose is at least very willing to concede that some of her points are very difficult to square, and that she needs to think about her positions more. More of this rather than people unwilling to consider shifting their stance or completely obscufating whilst not answering any diifficulty questions would be great. I give her a lot of credit for thinking through and taking on a far more experienced debater and attempting to answer honestly.
@chronographer
2 жыл бұрын
53:34 James' comedic timing is 100% perfect. "Steven, I already have.'
@realitystrikes1998
2 жыл бұрын
I'd point out to this lady the following: You don't make step by step choices in a life or death fight, you just fight until its over. If your attacker is trying to kill you, if you have the means to you will defend yourself with as much force as you can muster. If the person dies along the way, it is the instigator's fault because you were trying to preserve your life they were trying to end. Period.
@skullingtonfx4441
2 жыл бұрын
She speaks like someone never been in or even deeply thought about being in a life or death situation
@Gigakoopz
2 жыл бұрын
You realize that she adressed this exact argument that Destiny challenged her on, right? She said that r**e isn't really the same as m***er because it typically doesn't end in someone's life been taken away. Did you even watch more then 10 seconds of the video? Doesn't seem like it.
@niks.8957
2 жыл бұрын
@@Gigakoopz Nobody said anything involving that point from the video in this comment though, did you even read the original comment? Doesn’t seem like it.
@Gigakoopz
2 жыл бұрын
@@niks.8957 Bad bait.
@smilinrylan3169
5 ай бұрын
I used to be a pacifist up until around 7th grade, used to be bullied constantly. My mother used to run a daycare and one of the children she watched was the son of a SWAT Officer. She asked him to mentor me and he taught me to defend myself, and gave me more confidence. Over time I gradually changed and came to the point where I realized that it was morally right to defend myself and others, and that by doing so, it also helped eliminate said bullying, because schools wouldn't do anything. Went to the ER multiple times due to the bullying. Now I'm not afraid and I can't recommend enough to learn to defend yourself and understand that it is morally right to defend yourself and those weaker, you have a duty to. Aba and Preach also had this point that if someone attacks you or does wrong to you, unprovoked or for something you didn't ask for, an eye for an eye isn't just, but an eye for an eye and a leg. You deserve to do more than what they did to you for no reason.
@kwk111
2 жыл бұрын
Only equal harm defence is moral? Oh okay, I get it. The r*p* victim CAN defend themselves, but only by r*p*ng the attacker. Yep, makes perfect sense 👍
@levelup2014
2 жыл бұрын
A “pacifist” is just a sheltered person who never experienced how evil the worl can be
@jacobmichael6357
5 ай бұрын
It’s just ridiculous if someone has the mindset to take advantage of people they are gonna run wild in this type of society she is talking about
@ShustOne
2 ай бұрын
I was a pacifist until James' mic kept getting louder
@Nightknight1992
2 жыл бұрын
something about her looking directly into the camera gives me very bad demonmama vibes
@IamusTheFox
2 ай бұрын
Pasifist makes sense only when you are able to defend yourself and others but always avoid causing harms
@tooeasylol
3 ай бұрын
the rape trap is pretty cool, but the way destiny phrased it like a "trap worn inside your body" was like explaining it to a third grader
@oddctioum
2 жыл бұрын
we have People out there who think its violence to say something they disagree with. and im not saying she is one of them but it sounds as confused about the issue at Hand. i mean like: never being in a physical confrontation once in their Life is not enough to arrive at her Point of View. you have to have a distain for the definitions involved. i mean: it sounds like she thinks that rape has nothing to do with violence and cant lead to lethal Force under any circumstance. if that would be the case i could understand her Position. but we have a clash with reality here: in my View rape is probably the ultimate Form of violence and it can often lead to the Death of the Victim. i would rather be Hospitalised, beaten to a pulp instead of being raped violently and it wouldnt go any other Way in my case. i could never have a debate with someone who cant accept this reality.
@uplu7190
2 жыл бұрын
The gun is pre crime defense were as the trap mechanism is post crime punishment. The gun defense can be slippery, as “knowing” someone’s intent can be interpreted in many different ways.
@amazin7006
2 жыл бұрын
Its not punishment though, its defense It ends the interaction immediately
@curtisyue182
Жыл бұрын
What is wrong with our society... its like you cant even r4pe women in peace anymore.
@Adam-zh4hm
2 жыл бұрын
She could've at least washed her hair
@proxyboxie5584
2 жыл бұрын
@@sw3783 "predictive physiognomy, a disproven concept which poses that there are invariable 100% correlations between physical features" where do you even find these terms.
@wisemage0
2 жыл бұрын
Then she'd be inflicting violence against bacteria.
@Adam-zh4hm
2 жыл бұрын
@@wisemage0 😂
@TitoMako
2 жыл бұрын
James googling “Sonic Inflation” at 53:40 made me laugh so hard.
@swaggitypigfig8413
2 жыл бұрын
Looking for TV shows to watch, recommend some.
@cringelord7542
2 жыл бұрын
Band of brothers.
@nendu4316
2 жыл бұрын
The bear
@wowman542
2 жыл бұрын
Mr.Robot, Counter part, Constantine (the nbc series)
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