God, guns, and Battletech. In my opinion, Battletech is the best game to start new players.
@nunyabidness3075
10 ай бұрын
Alpha strike maybe. I don’t think most new players are going to appreciate something as crunchy as classic.
@KMCA779
10 ай бұрын
I prefer it on hex grid, especially for new players
@eddapultstab2078
10 ай бұрын
@@nunyabidness3075both are good for different reasons. Alpha if you know the players have a very limited time frame and classic if you know they are really into indepth strategy and possibly go into the rpg as well.
@Seeric85
10 ай бұрын
If you want a 2-3 hour game you can just play Classic BattleTech which is Alpha Strike with about three layers of extra autism. I personally prefer it because it has a lot more depth and the Mechs get to shine much more with their differences.
@saigancat
11 ай бұрын
Alternating activations and damage taking effect at end of phase are so big. Also the price difference, model count difference, there's so many reasons to try out BT. And if you want something more crunchy than Alpha Strike there's CBT, or you can scale out for planetary invasions using battleforce, there's space combat, there's SO MUCH avilable in these systems. Also, that's great water, where'd you get that?
@Lord_Aussem
11 ай бұрын
It's so easy to get into when a lance is 4 mechs! That's why I couldn't help myself! Thank you, I made the Rivers myself. They're just cardboard that I painted and coated with gloss mod podge. They're a bit warped because it's such a cheap material, but they make an excellent quick option until I make something more permenant.
@Ragnaroknrol
10 ай бұрын
@@Lord_Aussemif I may, here is a great alternative for rivers from a master at DIY terrain and such. kzitem.info/news/bejne/yY6D2q5sgoh3qqAsi=6vOBMCzSMel7I8ed I had the same issue with warping and then tried this. So good.
@eddapultstab2078
10 ай бұрын
@@Lord_Aussem classic battletech is very crunchy on the rules but I keep coming back to it for over 20 years because it's health and damage system sets it apart from most games. Instead of a single pool of hit points, you have locations with its own armor and structural points and all the core rules can be referenced to a single sheet of paper. We still use the back of a citytech rulebook, that was printed almost 40 years ago, because the rules haven't really changed over the decades and old editions of both the game and rpg can still be used. I have heard a Warhammer ruleset lasts a couple years and then gets rewritten almost completely. Game stability is also a very important feature in choosing.
@dark7element
9 ай бұрын
Strategic Battleforce is an amazing system for regiment-size battles. Unfortunately nobody ever wants to play it because it's (obviously) not possible to have a 1-to-1 representation of units on the tabletop.
@zeterzero4356
11 ай бұрын
Yeah alternating turns are one reason I prefer OPR games over 40k. Feels more like an interactive experience and makes more sense than one army standing around while the other blasts it into oblivion.
@Lord_Aussem
11 ай бұрын
Love One page rules. I tried Grimdark Fututre and it was great!
@MKmaki6094
10 ай бұрын
Agreed, I really did not like 40k's I go you go sequence. It's great at ;east that HH added something similar with reactions
@lordhamster9452
10 ай бұрын
Yes OPR might be bit too simple for some but it is quick and simple fun which is something we sometimes need.
@dark7element
9 ай бұрын
40k has a lot of problems but OPR fucking sucks
@vp21ct
10 ай бұрын
If an Alpha Strike game feels too short with just Lance on Lance action you could try going for Company scale force on Company scale force. Battletech also supports combined arms for some real interesting fun.
@cloacky4409
10 ай бұрын
Just bought the beginner box and painted my first mech ever!! Im so hyped to get into tabletop Battletech!
@RenegadeVile
10 ай бұрын
The way damage is applied in this game is also, in many ways, more realistic. After all, everyone's shooting, and it's perfectly feasible that you gun each other down simultaneously.
@Bikes-and-Bytes
10 ай бұрын
Had this happen, when the last two mechs totalled each other and the point of Elementals won the day as they were the only unit still standing
@eddapultstab2078
10 ай бұрын
@@Bikes-and-Bytestry mass casualties ammo explosions. I was GMing and set up my brothers stinger in a duel with a commando. Several rounds was game of cat and mouse as the player was buying time for an initiative that was to his benefit. When it happened, he immediately jumped behind the commando, and its soft back armor. The commando unfortunately missed with his srm pack, only one arm can be pointed towards the rear. He fired the medium laser and hit the torso and criticaled the srm 4 ammo, he almost survived but it still cored his mech into a draw. Good times.
@Bikes-and-Bytes
10 ай бұрын
@@eddapultstab2078 hilarious!
@tschriv
10 ай бұрын
Just a side note, the mech paint jobs are top shelf. They look great.
@shawnadams1460
10 ай бұрын
Man this takes me back to Highschool! I found mechwarrior in a little strip mall in 91-92 after having played the original MechWarrior on a DOS colour computer. I walked in and recognized one of the 'Mech' names, it was a pewter miniature and the guy who works there pointed me to a bin that had the original tabletop box and the 3025 Technical readout, I WAS HOOKED. So our 11th grade year we convinced the VP to let us use a small storage room during lunch breaks and for an hour after school. We got to set up some epic maps with terrain, there was six of us and some of those 3v3 games lasted WEEKS!
@Hotrancidgrease
10 ай бұрын
The reason i left 40k/Kill Team for Battletech is due to the constantly changing rules. BT Alpha Strike is stable baby!
@Lord_Aussem
10 ай бұрын
Yeah I haven't played 40k since 8th for that reason. I still play heresy though. Love that stability. It's so much more accessible.
@fredgilbert2032
10 ай бұрын
CBT is even more stable not much has changed since the 90s other than additional tech and new units. Cool thing to me is the old units are still viable in the newest timeline thanks to the BV2 system to mostly balance forces. IMHO BT and AS hit their stride when you get into combined arms. Mech, Tanks, Infantry, Battle Armor, Arty, and Air (even ships if you're feeling froggy) make it so much more immersive and feel like an actual battlefield. There are even systems to fight space battles before you even make planet fall. Oh, and the RPG to play out the bits in between. This can be a very immersive universe with many different playstyles and subgames.
@TheAchilles26
10 ай бұрын
My buddy and I spent an entire day on like three consecutive lance on lance matches of Classic Battletech, each match was like 3-4 hours, but Classic BT is SO much grittier in detail than Alpha Strike, with armor and structure for each limb, exact location of heat sinks, weapons, and ammo being relevant. We haven't gotten around to trying Alpha Strike yet
@fredgilbert2032
10 ай бұрын
Battletech has a pretty good companion RPG where you can fight the battles using AS or CBT. Some of my best BT experience have been campaign style using the RPG to play out the stuff in between the battles.
@Atlas3060
11 ай бұрын
Alpha Strike is fun for skirmishes and light campaigns so you'll do just fine smacking the robots around. The game itself came from Battleforce where 1 Mech could represent 4-6 actual mechs on the field, it was an abstracted war game for Battletech to allow bigger fights. If you ever get into the customizing aspects of it all, you just use Classic (aka Total Warfare) scaled Battletech and translate the stats to Alpha Strike cards. Glad to see another recruit in the Inner Sphere. Have fun.
@Moe_Infinity
10 ай бұрын
1:30 To be fair in this setting, tanks (and other vehicles) are really dangerous. Some of them could easily core mechs, especially those packing things like Autocannon, PPC, Gauss Rifles etc. Also glad you're enjoying BT! -Comstar welcomes you-
@eddapultstab2078
10 ай бұрын
Praise Blake, I mean good luck out there don't go into any batchalls unless you completely understand what the heck a batchall is. I have been playing for years and it still gets confusing.
@dark7element
9 ай бұрын
It's mentioned numerous times that even when mechs were at their most dominant (e.g. late succession wars), tanks were still the most common vehicle on the battlefield. Running with the whole feudal metaphor, if battlemechs are the "knights" which make the decisive moves of the battle, tanks and mechanized infantry are the "men at arms" who form the battle line that the knights sally from behind.
@SecondReversal
10 ай бұрын
So I'm 0:01 seconds into the video but I just have to say those paint schemes look spectacular
@randomusernameCallin
10 ай бұрын
40k: Shorter games use less minis. BT: Longer games use less minis.
@135forte
10 ай бұрын
That moment when you realize that it doesn't have to be GW's way. If you want longer games, Classic Battletech is the go to. A lot more book keeping on a model to model basis; rather than just taking a point of damage you are tracking damage to each part of the mech and potential losing individual weapons.
@joshuawilson8804
10 ай бұрын
Battletech is easier and less stressful of a wargame. You paint a lance, and you go at it with a fairly basic wargame. Cardboard cut outs are allowed. I don't feel like I invested enough for a small car. I remember in a club some 40k guys were setting up. I set up a small Battletech game, and we finished by the time they started their first turn.
@logandaley1544
10 ай бұрын
Warhammer never grabbed me on tabletop, only the Total War game. BattleTech got my attention and managed to get me to buy minis and go to the game shop every couple weeks to play. I think the setting and the small mini count for a force made it feel less intimidating to get into
@Lord_Aussem
10 ай бұрын
Yeah it's an awesome entry point. And something about battlemechs makes the battle feel huge still. It's a great choice.
@eddapultstab2078
10 ай бұрын
I always thought Warhammer looked neat and liked the idea of leading massive armies but the price tag to get in, even 20 years ago is immense. Me and my friends often joke you need the revenue of a third world country to get into it.
@HornetADP
10 ай бұрын
Honestly I never played Warhammer and I never played BT Alpha Strike (not yet). I only play Classic BT for now and I enjoy it very much. Initiative works the same in both BT games. When I introduce new players they are always confoused about initiative at first, but when we go through the first shooting phase, they start to get it and everyone likes it. I need to note, that at least in classic BT losing initiative can sometimes even be an advantage (depending on the mission), since you can "body check" your opponents units, so they have to spend more movement points to get around you. But these ases were rare for now. Btw trees don't feel too large for me, since mechs are 8 to 12 meters tall by lore (some might be a bit more and others less) and trees in my own backyrd are 10m tall ... in local forest they go from 30-50m which is way higher than a mech is supposed to be :) I hope you all enjoy BT for many many years to come
@bthsr7113
10 ай бұрын
One of the cool things about Battletech is that more conventional forces like tanks, infantry, VTOLs, strike craft, and artillery are all still useful tools on tabletop and useful assets in lore. Though the rules are tilted to favor battlemechs, and there's a lot of hassle in controlling a large combined arms force instead of a few mechs, you can very much run an all tank force. There's even statted blue and brown naval units. Something that Warhammer doesn't have at all.
@dark7element
9 ай бұрын
It's kind of a "blue balls" in regard to that last bit, because even though they have statted out blue water navy units and stated they exist, they also state that they usually amount to big, expensive wastes of funding and almost never see real combat. Because 1) with dropships, control of sealanes doesn't matter because troops can land anywhere, 2) water-rich planets are a small minority of human colonies (granted, the ones that do exist tend to be highly valuable), 3) naval ships are difficult or impossible to transport with dropships and can't be moved where they can actually contribute to a war, 4) they're target practice for capital-scale weapons in orbit, 5) even if an attacker doesn't have those, heavy aerospace fighters can kill them for a much cheaper cost than the naval ships themselves, and most importantly of all, 6) if you really need to fight a battle on open water, why wouldn't you just use hovertanks, which do the job well enough *without* being useless in every other situation besides that one?
@xampleloginname
9 ай бұрын
Fine looking battlemechs sir.
@jtjames79
10 ай бұрын
I got a hybrid random system. Use a token bag like Bolt Action, but instead of drawing one you draw two and keep the one you want. Player with the smaller army draws first. If both armies are tied, just draw one. I play OPR rules otherwise with some other home rules. With my 3D printers it costs me less to just print out armies for my friends to play at my house than collect commercial. So I get to make the rules (also my friends insist).
@michaelguth4007
10 ай бұрын
During 2nd edition Warhammer 40k, I played both BattleTech and WH. Sometimes, the first player inflicted already so great losses to the enemy that the game was basically lost for the player who had to move second. Friends and I learned from BT and segmented our 40K armies into sections of roughly equal points and used alternating initiative inspired by BT. I think we had to tweak some 40K rules for it to work, but I can't remember any details. Games became much more fun and less dependent on turn-order.
@xczechr
10 ай бұрын
I played my first game of Alpha Strike this past weekend. It was a lot of fun.
@greysonjones5429
10 ай бұрын
Welcome to the Hobby my friend! Thars an excellent table setup and some nicely painted minis. Also, that Lance with the Warhammer IIC, MadCat, Locust, and Phawk is nasty. Thats alot of firepower and high mobility.
@ethanmckinney203
9 ай бұрын
The initiative system that John Hill developed for gis *Tank Leader* system is still the gold standard.
@zephyrstrife4668
10 ай бұрын
At 9:35 when posting this comment; It could be a situation where, during an alternating activation setup, you simply make a phase at the end for save resolution. 40k already does To Hit and To Wound separately. You would just record how many wounds a squad gets during the shooting/melee combat and then have both players resolve wound saves at the end of the round, also alternating between squads.
@Lord_Aussem
10 ай бұрын
Yeah just place a dice or counters next to the unit of how many saves they failed, and at the end of the round, you allocate wounds and remove models. They did this in the new Apocalypse rules too
@VelcroSnake93
Ай бұрын
I prefer the 'alternate' rules where you roll dive for each point of damage instead of once chunk of damage. Makes it feel more like Classic Battletech, like you're firing multiple weapon systems and not all of them are always hitting if you don't miss.
@markbamber7918
9 ай бұрын
i remember playing back when the clans were first invading the inner sphere, battalion sized matches with 40 battlemechs per team went a long time depending on tactics/strategy and mech tonnage. i agree that warhammer/warhammer 40k/ horus heresy would benefit from the turn sequence of battletech
@snipersl270
10 ай бұрын
If you're looking for a skirmish to last 4 hours, check out BattleTech Classic. I'm just getting into it but really loving how you see exactly where your damage goes and seeing critical pop up and maybe a lucky shot takes a whole arm off or blows an ammo bin and explodes the whole mech. Maybe a lucky shot rings the pilots bell and he fails a PSR and falls. Its very cool. I do need to check out AS at some time though.
@eddapultstab2078
10 ай бұрын
Company on company is pretty fun, and can get real deep real fast.
@snipersl270
10 ай бұрын
I believe it. @@eddapultstab2078
@spacewolfblackmane19
10 ай бұрын
Personally for me I love both but for different reasons. As far a Table top goes, I much more prefer Classic as while it's much slower and more numbers heavy. That indepth feeling just absolutely make every mech, and more importantly ever VERSION of every mech feel all the more personal. But Alpha Strike can be easier to learn at least for people who prefer faster games, and streamlined units. For me I've come to love that personal touch. Like you can just take a side lines glance at a mech and their record sheet, and immediately get a good idea as to the type of person blessed, or cursed to have to use them in battle, and how. Hell the chance of head shots, and falling over alone can really shakeup and determine a game by itself.
@eddapultstab2078
10 ай бұрын
If I do a major campaign where the players have dozens of mechs in service, I would use classic to mostly the parties missions and alpha strike to quickly assess other unit actions of their unit. I think that it would be a great way to get indepth without going crazy with the paperwork in my opinion.
@erdervv
10 ай бұрын
BT has better rules, you can play all variants of the game with the same minis, and for a starter player, a single lance to try out alpha strike and classic BT goes from 20 to 25 bucks. It's not only a better wargame, it's pricing and value compared to 40K is insane.
@augustinelim1985
10 ай бұрын
Tanks may be infinitely more practical, but Mechs are infinitely cooler. 😎
@gammafighter
10 ай бұрын
Damage happening simultaneously isn't perfect but it feels more true to actual combat. Especially since one-shots are pretty rare with mechs. Warhammer feels more like a JRPG. You have to wait for your turn before you can swing your sword at the guy trying to kill you. This is especially apparent in the shooting phase in Age of Sigmar and you get doubled. Your opponent can (hypothetically) shoot your crossbow unit, charge another unit, fight that other unit, move again and shoot your crossbows again before your crossbows can even shoot back. It feels so artificial.
@99zxk
2 ай бұрын
Battletech was bigger than Warhammer in the 90's. They had a cartoon, video games, books, etc. They've had decades to learn stuff and haven't.
@epicstyle1000
10 ай бұрын
Games workshop and warhammer could learn DONT go to war and attack your customers
@Krix6426
10 ай бұрын
I do use 3D buildings and trees in the mix, but I love Alpha Strike on a grid map. It is less fiddly so saves a bit of time. I agree with you on timing ex.
@guitarhausdoesntknowwhatac3285
10 ай бұрын
The single best thing about Battletech as compared to WH40k IMHO is that units that were designed way back in 1984 operate under the same mechanics today as they did back then and despite the ensuing time period can still be valid choices even when dealing with more modern designs; Like someone pitting a succession wars era army could credibly threaten an ilkhan era one by virtue of being able to put considerably more units on the board then his opponent.
@SwiftJustice
10 ай бұрын
Now _this_ is --podracing-- wargaming
@xenofett7008
10 ай бұрын
As a former diehard 40k player from the 90s, I have to agree I enjoy Battletech much more. Warhammer 40k requires a serious investment in miniatures and codex books etc. Plus Games Workshop keeps revising 40k rules, models, and editions every 5 to 10 years. Battletech you can start playing with very little investment and can work your way up and the game has changed very little since the 1980s. I also enjoy the fact that we have the Alpha Strike option for Battletech for faster paced game sessions.
@curtisthornsberry4236
10 ай бұрын
I used to play malifaux, also a skirmish style game. You moved a single guy (Plus possibly connected units on occasion) and did their whole turn. then the other guy moves his one (sometimes more) dude. having more models meant you get more "turns" as you get to activate the rest of your crew at the end of the turn. I'd play a necromancer and summon crappy zombies to activate at the beginning of the turn and aim to alphastrike my opponents models at the end of my turn with my good stuff.
@ASNS117Zero
10 ай бұрын
With regard to tanks vs. battlemechs - the in-universe explanation is that because Myomer bundles are so good, the mobility allowed to Battlemechs simply crushes what tanks are capable of from an all-terrain perspective. A single mech is capable of taking down an entire line of armored vehicles due to them being able to just outrun the tanks ability to track on their target. It wasn't until later in the timeline that you got lumbering, slow mechs like the Annihilator, Atlas, or Urby that violate this convention. And even then, tanks and armored vehicles are still used. It's a weak explanation that isn't really grounded in reality. It doesn't take into consideration what advantages Myomer could have had for conventional armored vehicles, for starters. It also doesn't factor in beyond-visual-range doctrines and capabilities, at least in any believable way. In a LOT of ways, the weapon systems used in Battletech are actually *considerably* worse than real life weapon systems (missile systems being by far the worst offender - LRMs only having about a km of range is hilarious), but I've always chalked that up to limitations based on game mechanics that translated too hard into the lore.
@eddapultstab2078
10 ай бұрын
The way battletech describes it, tanks have hit the bottle neck as far as design is concerned. You can put better weapons or more slabs of armor, but a box is still a box at the end. Myomers are artificial muscle that, when powered, are not only strong and highly responsive but is also structurally durable. The reason why mechs can't do a 360 degree twist normally, although some designs can, is because they are built these muscles. Mechs grew in popularity kinda because of a crazy weapons demonstration that went so far off the rails that every despot lightyear away thought they were lagging behind and dropped fortunes in the name of keeping up with the Jones. By the time they sobered up, mechs actually became a useful line item for certain applications and a force multiplier for most armies. If you want to know more watch Tex Talks battletech: the Mackie, if you have not already seen it. He covers alot of great ingame history.
@dark7element
9 ай бұрын
I think the way they try to explain it is that making a myomer shorter (or longer) than a particular length makes them less and less efficient, and that the most efficient type from a power-to-weight/energy use ratio perspective is the 5 to 10 meter long myomers used by mechs. As for why all the weapons have such short range... that's much harder to come up with a plausible in-universe explanation for. Partly I think it's explained as, long range shots like that are just too difficult to make in the kind of mid-range high-speed brawl that a game of CBT represents. In "Strategic Battleforce" which has company-sized units, vehicles with LRMs, long range autocannons etc. are able to make attacks against targets that are more like 2 kilometers away, which is closer to being realistic.
@eddapultstab2078
9 ай бұрын
@@dark7element one thing should be noted that missles In battletech are possibly smaller than alot of popular anti tank missiles used today. We are talking man packed ATGM sized missles although I don't know how much they weigh but in game an individual lrm is about 5 to 8 kilograms each and can hit targets about a kilometer away which is on par or better than most at weapons excluding the javelin but most shoulder fired weapon systems. Srms weight in between 8 and 10 kilos a piece and mrms are literally just rockets at 2.5 to 4 kilograms each, although completely unguided. Autocannons are actually pretty simple to explain, each type gets a progressively shorter but larger barrel basically trading accuracy, and thus range, for a more devastating warhead. There is a mech grade cannon larger than an ac 20 because it would be as massive as the mech itself. Lasers have a particular weakness that, unlike in the movies where just touching a laser and somebody disintegrates or explodes, it needs to paint the target area consistently over a duration to deal damage. If the the target area moves too quickly or changes sides midway and an entire Salvo is almost completely mitigated. Larger lasers have a more effective range but still runs into the same issue. So the ranges with lasers could be seen as the optimum effective range where environmental and situational factors are mitigated to deal optimal damage to the target.pulse lasers have a bonus to accuracy because they release so much energy in a short burst which makes it easier to target, except innersphere versions which have a somewhat shorter range over their clan counterparts. It could mainly be that like star wars, battletech takes a page from earlier wars where there were alot more close quarters brawls and knife fights rather than the much longer ranged battles we now see today. While there are cases of record multiple kilometer tank kills from another tank they used to be rarer occurrence, atleast in the 80s and 90s.
@dark7element
9 ай бұрын
@@eddapultstab2078 Yeah when I ran Mechwarrior (or "A Time of War" as it's now called) I always described lasers as 'slashing across' the target rather than being a point impact. When unfortunate infantry gets hit by a medium laser the way I described it is basically slicing them in half like a giant blade, which seemed suitably gruesome - or, making the cover they're crouching behind explode. I think part of the lack of stand-off range weapons is due to doctrine as well as tech limitations. There *are* various types of long range missiles in BT, including real-world style cruise missiles, they just aren't the go-to weapon. Battletech forces tend to have a smaller amount of manpower and a longer "tooth to tail" ratio compared to real militaries and often they're either mercenaries or feudal vassals, which means it's not a big deal politically if they take casualties. Reliance on cruise missiles in the real world is not necessarily driven by cost effectiveness, but by political considerations. The USA and other western nations are very casualty-averse. in Battletech, a lot of the armed forces would prefer to have cheap weapons systems that can be fired a lot in low-intensity conflicts for low cost. And if some of those mercs or members of warrior houses or whatever get wounded or killed, the average citizen on the street doesn't particularly care, especially since the highly mechanized nature of battletech warfare tends to keep casualty counts pretty low (I ran multiple company-sized engagements including quite a bit of tanks and infantry, and death tolls larger than a couple dozen per side were rare. I think the biggest death toll from a "major battle" was about 60 total, for both sides). It was kind of funny, actually; since some of the players in my game were used to Warhammer 40k and similar ultra grimdark universes, when they would hear that, say, this corrupt colonel's private militia had killed three thousand people in an illegal campaign, their reaction was like, "What? That's it? What's all the fuss about?" I had to out-of-character inform them that that was a serious atrocity by Battletech standards which would be an embarrassment to the Federated Suns as a whole if it came out - especially since this was close to the Combine border and the killings were being carried out against the Japanese-speaking population.
@eddapultstab2078
9 ай бұрын
@@dark7element you also tell the Warhammer gamers that the typical starting point of 3025 and onward is also where the military industrial complex has reached the boiling point. Cruise missles aren't used because most of the components and programming that makes it a useful weapon were among first priority targets including, nukes, warships, planetary defense systems and were subsequently destroyed in short order at cost to protect their territory and all the houses literally did it at once so recovering such technologies were next to impossible in some cases, especially when another faction would drop the hammer on the mere sniff of a wonder weapon possibility. By the 31st century, billions already died in mass and the most destruction has already happened.
@jake53105
10 ай бұрын
Read the channel name as Lord Autism, thought “hell yeah, bro.” This is good too though.
@Lord_Aussem
10 ай бұрын
Hahahaha that's amazing
@midshipman8654
10 ай бұрын
personally, im a bit eh on alternating turn order when it comes to things larger than a skirmish. In terms of larger bodies of troops, it is more simulative to have them function at the same time at a strategic level instead of everyone responding on the indivigual micro level. But I do understand fun wise it is less down time doing alternating. However, I always thought it would be cool if more wargames split the difference and had their army activations divided into thirds, like main body, left flank, right flank. or furst line, second line, third line. Preserving that strategy level coordination, but largely reducing the wait time, and allowing some slightly more smaller scale back and forth. I think that movement effecting accuracy and evasion inversely thing is pretty epic though.
@christofersvensson370
10 ай бұрын
Fantastic table!
@hellgore8541
10 ай бұрын
I come from Battletech (playing since beginning of the 90's) and started 40k with the (then) new Necrons around 2003. It almost immediately occurred to me how nondynamic 40k is in comparison to BT. In the years and Editions that followed GW never managed to improve on that but rather tried to convince everybody "yeah this edition is the good one without flaws, so we don't need alternating activation" - but everytime they blew it. In 5th my friends and me had a short time experimenting wit the same activation mechanics as BT in 40k and they were so much different and much more interesting dynamic games even though the balancing wasn't too easy - unit power levels differ from IgoUgo and we never got all the flaws sorted out, as new editions rendered the rules useless time and again. There are a lot of sites in the web that discuss this matter, but I haven't found a working alternative so far. If there is a set of alternative rules using alternating activation for 40k 10th ed out there - please point it out to me. I'll happily give a try again after being already bored by IgoUgo in 10th again.
@MikeOldani
9 ай бұрын
100% on the 40k initiative unfairness. The first way to fail is to deploy unwisely. However sometimes it's better to go second because usually you deploy in cover and first move forward, which means second player gets first shots really. We don't need your campaign system though, Battletech has a campaign operations book.
@mwatkins0590
2 ай бұрын
you should make painting tutorial videos
@weirdo3116
10 ай бұрын
from my years of gaming (either table top or video games) is that you can never fully judge a thing until you've put in a good ammount of time/games in. Cause the grass is always greener some where else. Doesn't mean their isn't problems where you're at or that you can think one system in better than the other. Just that in general you should be more patient and diligent before making a full commitment into a thing. an example here would be that shooting thing. I think is it kinda BS that my guys in warhammer can't shoot back when they get shot at. But i'd also think it's BS if I catch a guy by surprise, kill him in the shooting phase, and then he still get's to shoot.
@honstalys
4 ай бұрын
I play all 3. CBT, Alpha Strike, and 40k Of them, I prefer Alpha Strike to the other two. It has the alternating rules of CBT, and at least approximates CBT in terms of crunch rules, but it's so much easier to play even at larger scales.
@lucasgundersen5611
10 ай бұрын
Hey I love the paint scheme you've got going on, I've been trying to replicate it and for the life of me I can't find the shade of brown you're using. Would you mind if I ask what paints and shades you used to pull that scheme off?
@kingbobb007
10 ай бұрын
I don’t play 40k and likely never will, solely because of UgoIgo and the rest of the turn sequence. Last time I played a game like that was War Machine 2.0, and totally dropped that when 3.0 didn’t adopt alternating acts . UgoIgo is as archaic a mechanics as roll to move, and creates so many NPE moments.
@ramonjimenez5944
11 ай бұрын
if you like the unit activation style of game. Try onepage rules grimdark. Its 40k with those type of rules. You can even use your current and past 40k minis.
@Lord_Aussem
11 ай бұрын
Yeah I tried one really small game of Grimdark future, it was pretty great! I’m curious how it scales up to larger armies. Also want to try their Fantasy rank and flank game
@ramonjimenez5944
11 ай бұрын
@@Lord_Aussem also stick with alpha strike. The game gets so much better when you add more points with infantry tanks. Especially objective missions. They are my favorite. Really keeps you changing up tactics organically.
@lordhamster9452
10 ай бұрын
Hard agree 40k is a fun setting and model line but the game has things to be desired and could lear a lot from other games. It is important to try different things. War games have a lot to offer for anyone interested. I’ve tried my first game in the setting of the 30y war tis week and started reading into a new (old) game centered around landships and both were cool experiences. Warhammer is good but not perfect or end all.
@zephyrstrife4668
10 ай бұрын
Honestly, I love the idea of doing the alternate activations in a wargame, since it gives more of a feeling like everything is going on at once rather than each person's turn taking forever. However, Mechs are less science fiction than it seems. The ones from Battletech are more along the lines of Tanks with Legs rather than Basically Power Armor along the lines of Gundam. As a famous scientist once said: "If you put a missile on treads, it can go anywhere a tank can. If you put it on legs, it can go anywhere a human can!"
@thejestor9378
10 ай бұрын
GW had a large scale game with this style of system.. it was their official Apocalypse game. Apparently 40k players at the time didn’t like it.. and now they want it.
@christianhall3916
10 ай бұрын
I love Battletech, but I have two big problems with the initiative system. One, when using combined arms, it leads to a cheese where you "initiative sink" with cheaper units, and two, if you lose initiative over and over again, you can be effectively locked out of certain tactics that you need the last move in order to enact. In its defense, the initiative system leads to a nice meta for lance composition, where you have one fire support, one generalist, one brawler, and one backstabber, because it lets you get the most use out of your early moves within each turn that the enemy can easily react to and also your late moves that they can't.
@dark7element
9 ай бұрын
If you mean "initiative sink" with individual platoons of infantry, the rulebook handles that - you're supposed to move all infantry on a single init phase, after the vehicles and mechs have gone. If you mean using light scout hovertanks and so on to initaitive sink... well, isn't that what they're supposed to be for? Initiative is how you represent the advantage those kinds of units grant.
@christianhall3916
9 ай бұрын
Except you can literally hide them in a corner of the map and they still grant the benefit. I played the game pretty competitively for a while using megamek, and the arguments over what was and wasn't cheese were endless. Played using large maps, sometimes double-blind even, so the problem may be much less on smaller maps where you can't hide something so easily.
@dark7element
9 ай бұрын
@@christianhall3916 If you couldn't use scout vehicles as initiative sink, would anyone ever take them? I think the answer is "unless you're playing one of the scenarios that specifically calls for them, no. They will just be ignored and contribute nothing to the battle except wasting the points of whoever bought them".
@billtrent6520
10 ай бұрын
If want something a little slower from battletech classic is a good option though this only if you have four hour with game of 4kbv
@cyclone8974
10 ай бұрын
yep those trees are way too big.
@zenosAnalytic
10 ай бұрын
Absolutely re: turn order. Honestly I'd prefer if GW'd just add an initiative stat and have both players "play" at the same time, from highest initiative unit to lowest. Also, remove overwatch as a strategem and go back to how it USED to work, and how it still works in most turn-based video games: the unit sacrifices doing anything else that turn to shoot at the first unit that moves into firing range.
@mortichro
2 ай бұрын
I can get an entire collection of CGL Battletech releases with probably slightly less money than a 3000pts worth of units for 40k.
@Rapman21
4 ай бұрын
Alpha strike is a great game. Classic Battletech is simply more granular. AS allows company or even battalion sized battles in a reasonable amount of time. Also, your example of changing 40K to all damage is resolved at once was interesting. TBH, you just changed 40 to SAGA. 😂 I would watch one of those. To see how much 40k would be different.
@falconiusazurius5572
10 ай бұрын
I appreciate where you are coming from with this. But I like my games to be more multi-dimensional, tanks, infantry and aerospace units. I guess the next Epic will be the ticket?
@Lord_Aussem
10 ай бұрын
All the games have their place in the end. Having the variety is fantastic. And some games have such a low cost of entry that it's hard not to get into them! From what I understand Battletech does have other units like tanks and infantry. But I have yet to explore that avenue. But I still mostly play Horus Hersey as of right now.
@Tuner010
8 ай бұрын
Home brew is ok if everyone agrees with it for those rules but generally we have a rules book for the game. And it's good fun. Also I haven't got too many games in either though I have enough for a company. 😅😂
@LaBambaMan
10 ай бұрын
Battle tech is the superior game without a doubt. And you get two games in one with Classic and Alpha Strike. Worth noting; Alpha Strike is designed to be played with larger forces, usually company level armies (roughly 12 mechs and maybe some vehicles per side). Classic is the real nitty gritty, four mechs a side, heavy simulationist vibes game. Battletech shows how to do phase systems, which I generally dislike, correctly by having everything essentially happen simultaneously. And by using an alternating activation system in the movement phase instead of that god awful, outdated pile of garbage that is IGOUGO opens up so many more tactical options and keeps you engaged. I can't think of a single thing 40K does that makes it a good game, and its continued seat at the top constantly baffles me.
@scottwalker6947
10 ай бұрын
The regular BT game could last a couple of hours for certain scenarios.
@HeadHunterSix
10 ай бұрын
The main thing GW needs to learn from Battletech is that long-term fans are what keep a game alive, and that every customer should be valued, rather than looked upon as a wallet to be exploited. "You will not be missed" is an attitude that only holds until things go wrong (and sooner or later, they will, GW) . Practical implementations of this mindset can be seen in the many ways that BT players have free access to rules and record sheets, in the Alpha Strike cards that come with the force packs, and the acceptance of proxies, no WYSIWYG, and no unit is ever relegated to "Legends" status. It's clear to see that CGL isn't just trying to churn the ruleset to sell more books and models.
@TheTermigrot
10 ай бұрын
Warhammer only sells miniatures. They have not done long lasting rule sets in forever
@redking36
9 ай бұрын
What about a game where you choose 3 actions per turn? Choose to move, attack, or both.
@micahdouglas2982
10 ай бұрын
I didn’t watch this video. FASA killed itself on the altar of Microsoft when FASA interactive was sold to Microsoft after the success of Mechcommander. Games Workshop had some tough spots, but stayed true to its original premise and didn’t stop making games and miniatures. FASA never made their own miniatures.
@dark7element
9 ай бұрын
Warhammer 40k: A universe that absolutely hates humanity. Space travel is absurdly dangerous and involves flying through Hell. Extradimensional daemons coming through to slaughter humanity is a constant threat. Mankind is surrounded on all sides by horrifyingly powerful alien species that want to devour, enslave, and/or exterminate us. Formation of a cruel, tyrannical despotic Imperial state was the only possible way humanity could survive. Battletech: A universe tailor made to let humanity thrive. Interstellar travel is safe and reliable. Habitable planets with functioning biospheres and worlds rich in natural resources are abundant. There are no sentient aliens, and although dangerous alien creatures exist none of them can pose (much of) a threat to a human military force. ...yet humanity ends up being ruled by a bunch of despotic, oppressive, imperialistic warmongers anyway. It wasn't inevitable. It wasn't forced on us by a cruel, harsh universe. Billions were slaughtered for no reason aside from the fact that militaristic and sociopathic governments outcompete and devour peaceful ones every time. Which of those is the darker universe?
@Lord_Aussem
9 ай бұрын
I'm of the mind that you have to have some elements of hope and optimism in order to make grim-dark more impactful. That's why I don't like the idea of 40k being only ever hopeless and awful all the time. It's too one note. But in my head canon 40k isn't always totally awful. Just most of the time. I feel like Battletech has that naturally which I enjoy. You're right. In 40k things are horrible for humanity because the Imperium has to be horrible in order to survive. They are actually being attacked by traitors, aliens and daemons from every side. In Battletech, Humanity has it all and they still wage never-ending war and cause massive problems. A real commentary on the nature of humanity.
@bulldog71ss33
9 ай бұрын
"You get 2-3 hour games with 40k" No, my buddies play Nids and IG. I get turn 3 in 4hrs and never finish a game.
@Ayoosi
10 ай бұрын
Battletech is 1980s retro-futurism. It is informed by the crunchy games of the Cold War, and basically, a what-if the 1980s was in 2025 instead. One of the biggest reasons BT works is because it doesn't change often-- my Total War rulebook from a decade ago is still 90% compatible with the newest ruleset. GW's constant dataslate balances that push the meta with constant changes, and an edition cycle that leaves little time for casual players to really be involved before a new chunch of rules hits is part of what is off-putting about 40k.
@HotelCharliHill
10 ай бұрын
awesome paint jobs!!! but classict BT 4EVEEERRRR!!!! ;) ps: great idea about trying the system for BT on wh40k. I've wondered for a while: "What percentage of games are won by the person who went second in wh40k?" I bet it's dismal.
@mikael7084
10 ай бұрын
Games Workshop needs to learn how to write rules for their games. My group has house ruled many things GW are too incompetent to fix.
@Lord_Aussem
10 ай бұрын
Yeah I find our game group house rules stuff more and more these days. After decades of playing many games, you just start to see what works and what doesn't.
@michakoodziej5741
6 ай бұрын
An interesting game
@slice1208
10 ай бұрын
Play with more mechs if you want it to last longer or a campaign.
@XRacKS
10 ай бұрын
added classic battletech to me games collection, imo much more fun than warhammer and far less brainload since all have basically the same rules ^^
@user936
10 ай бұрын
Tanks are more... tankie
@elijahherstal776
10 ай бұрын
GW doesn't need to learn anything. Everything they are doing is working out just perfectly fine... For GW. Not us. As far as GW is concerned, 40k as a game is just a mechanism to sell their models. If they can make that mechanism work properly, slobbering fanboys will go out and sell their own children to diddlers in Thailand just to buy a new model or army because it has 'good rules' or 'it's meta'. For GW, the game is working perfectly as intended. GW will not fix 40k. That's what the players are for.
@jeannot7784
10 ай бұрын
Battletech IMO great game but the Mechs are so ugly. Why didn't they pay japanese dudes for the sculpts and the illustrations...
@Aetilus
Ай бұрын
40k is doomed until it scraps igougo. So fuckin boring
@aeonsbeyond
10 ай бұрын
40 k is turn to garbage they remove the entire psychic powers extension of the rules after having an amazing version of those rules in the previous edition they completely scrapped all psychic powers this edition despite psychic powers being a crucial part of the meta and The narrative of game, games workshop ruins themselves on an annual basis
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