Compared to 8e, infantry got multiple nerfs (no step up, much weaker rank bonuses, no parry save, harder to charge). At the same time cavalry and monsters got multiple buffs. Points have stayed mostly the same. While you still can pull some mileage out of elite infantry, iconic units like state troops and dwarf warriors are now reduced to a cruel joke.
@siremilcrane
4 ай бұрын
Playing Bretonnia in 8e was pure misery, I definitely do not want to go back to that
@NapoleonicWargaming
7 ай бұрын
Sad State Troop noises :(
@Tulkash01
6 ай бұрын
Lol. The dwarf “dirty trick” relies ENTIRELY on the opponent DECIDING to charge while KNOWING what it would entail…
@binnsi2251
7 ай бұрын
If infantry were able to charge as easily as cavalry, then cavalry would be kinda redundant. I don't think infantry are in a bad spot at all. They serve their purpose of being the anvil rather than the hammer most of the time, unless you made them too small or flimsy. If you dont set them up properly than that's a player issue, not a infantry issue.
@ja37d-34
7 ай бұрын
This.
@ruas4721
6 ай бұрын
Its a game design problem.
@binnsi2251
6 ай бұрын
@@ruas4721 what is?
@stepansraka3608
6 ай бұрын
Problem is, anvils lose lots of their value in a world where nigh-invincible flying monsters dominate. Enemy can easily wreck everything else while ignoring your 300+ points anvil. Even if you get lucky and manage to charge him, monster is likely just to retreat in good order and fly away next round. Counters are few and far between. Magic is either unlikely to put a dent or too short range. Most warmachines were nerfed into the ground and then some (while retaining point values from 8ed).
@binnsi2251
6 ай бұрын
@@stepansraka3608 The only thing they dominated are the minds of unprepared people and those who only discuss the "issue" but never played against it. There are plenty of tools around if you are willing pick them up and to use them. Iam glad monster are viable instead of warmachine, ranged and magic dominating everything like your precious 8th ed.
@pinch1loaf
6 ай бұрын
This game should not have spells that give whole units tons of movement like Fly(12). Single characters, sure, that makes sense, watching whole flanks of an army hop on steeds is soo lame.
@uruk_bye1232
7 ай бұрын
I think it's just how undercosted some cav are compared to the infantry options. They're just too much better for the point. Skirmishers, on the other hand, are totally fine, and people need to learn how to abuse them more.
@kingofcoinjock
6 ай бұрын
One big problem with depending on magic to buff your infantry - you are not counting on your opponent running things like the Infernal Puppet or Oaken Staff.
@oitoitoi1
7 ай бұрын
I was in the opinion in 8th ed, and am of a similar opinion now, that getting rid of thunderstomp and stomp solves a lot of problems. For infantry now I think they should have kept +3 rank bonus, +2 isn't enough to determine frontal charges from cavalry.
@ja37d-34
7 ай бұрын
Atleast Hordes can.. :)
@Grimmrog
6 ай бұрын
Most infantry not being monsters is useless, they just get chewn up. Not being able to strike back is their major issue. Take handweapon and they lack punch against the big boys to wound. Take great weapons and they strike mostly last, but lose so many that they do not have sufficient strikes left. So linehammer with a wide line is the only way agaonst the big boys to give them sufficient attacks. I have seen so many large blovks being just overrun by the typcal monsters they do not even stand proper enough to hold for flankings. Only a very few elite infantry units are worth considering. Melee and ranged combat is dead for infantry, unless you are khemri or wood elves. Or gobbos on spiders. But those arent infantry to begin with.
@jonathanpickles2946
7 ай бұрын
Slann have Fly and cannot join units without Fly. Ogres etc. get one attack per wound so if you do 3 wounds you remove 3 attacks same as with regular troops (with some scope for rounding in your favour). Monstrous infantry being viable doesn't really help vanilla ones anyway. Chosen, Hammerers and Swordmasters seem good enough though. Just another 13 armies to go.
@Omalley69
7 ай бұрын
Squigs hit pretty hard :p
@jonathanpickles2946
7 ай бұрын
@@Omalley69 Ha yeah and I'm sure Night Goblin fanatic delivery blocks will also do fine
@uruk_bye1232
7 ай бұрын
Agreed. Your average troop seems to be designed to die and take up space. Only hyper-elite infantry really get to do much. I've learned to manage my expectations with my gors, and they're really just a dense delivery system for my characters. No more, no less.
@GilthosDrakoniss
7 ай бұрын
Infantry works just like it should and did in every addition before eighth. it is an anvil mostly and works best when you have plenty of shooting and magic so the enemy has to rush to you. It would be nice if they didn’t remove the +1 combat resolution for out numbering.
@ruas4721
6 ай бұрын
Thats just wrong. Infantery before 8th was never only an anvil, dwarfs and elves had realy powerfull MSU tactics and overall there was less damage in the game which made twohanded weapons much more viable for infantery. Also the army building favored infantery much more.
@Willabrador
6 ай бұрын
Im atill loving my night goblin mobs and fanatics! Maybe they count as dirty tricks haha
@adamdoyle284
7 ай бұрын
Those were good comments on the sword masters, however using warriors of chaos against them as an example was a mistake as warriors have their own dirty tricks, one aspiring champion could have an enchanted aura to give all units in base contact 'strikes last' so effectively if the warriors charge they would Initiative 7 vs the sword master at Initiative 2, and if the swordmasters charge, the mark of slanesh will have them striking each other simultaneously. Bringing Walk Between Worlds into it is a good call however most WoC will bring the infernal puppet making it even harder to cast, and they may have even had battle lust or demonic strength cast on themselves respectively giving them hatred and many more more attacks per model. Swordmasters are good but do not make the mistake of underestimating your enemy's own abilities.
@grlmgor
7 ай бұрын
Most of the chaos army has ensorcelled weapons which are magical attacks.
@kingofcoinjock
6 ай бұрын
Swordmasters seem like the type of unit you should just fireball.
@ClydeMillerWynant
7 ай бұрын
I wouldn't want to be overly critical of the battle report involving the Chosen Warriors as it was a well put together report, the armies looked good and I enjoyed it well enough so thanks for making it! Nevertheless I'm not sure it really did much to promote the case for infantry. *SPOILER ALERT!* If I remember rightly four infantry units saw combat and three of them were wiped in one round. The other one was the Chosen and didn't they win one round of combat narrowly which ironically turned out to be better than winning convincingly as not killing enough knights brought the ridiculous rule about giving ground over the table edge into play? It was a nice play to use the spell you describe here to stop the Brets getting much out of their charge and it's obviously highly likely that the Chosen would have won out against that unit in the end , but mostly that battle was 'Herohammer' from the Hippo-Lord and the Demon Prince, some dodgy rules, an entertainingly hopeless Hellcannon and I think a misplay that meant the Demon Prince got done in when he might otherwise have gone on to beat one of the game's most elite cavalry units on his own.
@chiddy786
6 ай бұрын
For survivability, a lot of infantry get to take a magic item on the champion and a magic standard . An obsidian loadstone for the champion gives it a magic resistant 1. And the war banner gives it a bost to combat res. Helps the unit become an unmoveable block.
@gilessmith-x1y
7 ай бұрын
We should really say elite infantry are struggling a bit, for example a unit of 40 goblins or 30 men at arms is dirt cheap, like 100-150 and just quite difficult to take off the field due to warband
@gilessmith-x1y
7 ай бұрын
empire state troops should be in the above bracket but they are a bit overpriced for what they are really
@earnestwanderer2471
7 ай бұрын
For Dwarfs... Is there any reason to run standard warriors in a competitive list? If so, any reason not to give them great weapons? It really seems like Quarrelers with great weapons and shields is the only logical choice. Maybe Thunderers, but perhaps the decreased range of the handguns makes them suboptimal.
@triplecrownwargaming
7 ай бұрын
I think it really is either longbeards or quarrellers/thunderers for your main core. If you’re taking quarrellers though you may as well upgrade one unit to be rangers as they’re just a better quarreller!
@grlmgor
7 ай бұрын
Quarrelers and Thunderers only have WS3. Another reason you take Warriors with great weapon is their cheaper to fill out the ranks. Thunderers become pointless once you hit the core minimum as Irondrakes out shine them with quick shot and higher stats.
@winterh46334
6 ай бұрын
Warriors with gw and banner of hesitation win vs most cav. Quarrlers imo are just outclassed by rangers.
@kivati
7 ай бұрын
Gone back to business as usual for Warhammer Fantasy, prior to 8th. Infantry still have uses, I'm not leaving home without them!
@anthonyparente7858
6 ай бұрын
My block of 40 Skeleton Spearmen performed very well this weekend at a tournament, just gotta go very wide.
@triplecrownwargaming
6 ай бұрын
How wide were you running them? I think the fact you can grow the undead units back and just use them as tarpits gives them a fairly unique purpose other armies infantry just can’t do
@anthonyparente7858
6 ай бұрын
@@triplecrownwargaming I ran them in a 10x4 formation. Also yes, if you are playing an Undead army or another army that is essentially unbreakable, it's best in my opinion to have big blocks that can't flee and get caught and destroyed. I imagine when I play my Empire I will probably use smaller units.
@Grimmrog
6 ай бұрын
I love dwarsf I am the dwarven fan player, and dwarves have only heavy infantry outside of the gyros. Hammerers, irondrakes and rangers, even longbeards are a maybe. the rest is not good. or competes with too viable other options (like ironbreakers). worst about the dwarves is their low ini, they are mostlikely to strike last even with hand weapons, an if you look at some monster special rules and spells who require initiative test you know that this is what people use against dwarfes. And as someone said, know one is going to charge your hamerers. While the gyro is great compared to other flyers his # of attacks is too low to do anythign and the steam gun is to weak to truly hurt infantry. irondrakes are probably the better variant of dwarfen ballistas because they can have more wounds, can move and stand and shoot. this makes them a viable hybrid. however stupid linehamering is probably what works best for dwarfes. But it's ahrder for them to execute due to M3. go to wahrall, wtahc what others play, and see how all those infantry groups get eaten. It's sad. it's painful.
@chrismushan9396
6 ай бұрын
Are infantry viable? Sadly, NO. Bit of a shame when compared to 8e where every unit type had a viable role in the game. Nevertheless,Warhammer Fantasy lives again. Where there’s life there’s hope.
@Dryzual
7 ай бұрын
On retrospect, people whinged super hard about infantry hordes in 8th and ive even read many claims it was a reason the game died. Careful what you wish for.....
@triplecrownwargaming
7 ай бұрын
We certainly weren’t those people haha
@ruas4721
6 ай бұрын
Hordes sadly still work pretty well
@Dryzual
6 ай бұрын
@@ruas4721 Id take Hordes over dragon meta. Dragons should be powerful but I believe they shouldn't allow Regeneration magic items, a limit to ward saves and perhaps up their cost a bit.
@ruas4721
6 ай бұрын
@@DryzualOld world has many terrible game design issues. Like the combined profiles of monster lords. It just doesnt work and need fixes.
@stepansraka3608
6 ай бұрын
Infantry was overtuned in 8e, but nerfing it to the ground via global rules while keeping points the same is asinine design decision. Blocks of infantry are the most iconic thing about WFB.
@gilessmith-x1y
7 ай бұрын
One other consideration is using terrain to your advantage: Positioning behind a low linear obstacle is very powerful in this edition and angling your unit so the cavelry would have to close the wheel into terrain will cause them to become disrupted.
@Texx180
6 ай бұрын
I did try the archmage with swordmasters and the ethereal spell in my 2nd game. Unfortunately.... my opponent had a medium size unit of Grail knights, and of course got the charge. ~11 attacks, I8 (vs swordmasters I7), hitting on 4s, wounding on 2s, no save. It did not end well for the swordmasters. Unfortunately another common Cav unit that shuts down the HE infantry combo.
@triplecrownwargaming
6 ай бұрын
I’m not sure I’d call Grail Knights common 🤔 Common on Bretonnian armies for sure, but you’ll probably only see one unit of them
@Xirianek
7 ай бұрын
Great movie - they are some strong foot units - how about foot Bretonnia Knights? Any idea?
@triplecrownwargaming
7 ай бұрын
In an army with very cheap tarpit infantry and strong cavalry, I’m just not sure they’ll ever have a place
@lockkey1980
6 ай бұрын
I sure as hell hope so! I play Dwarves.
@Marqhll
7 ай бұрын
I'm still learning the rules and I've been studying the Wood Elves inside and out and one of the things that I think that they do well is to take advantage of forests. The fact that they can just produce new forests and also move through cover really makes it more likely that Wood Elves will be able to disrupt enemy charges and put their infantry units like Eternal Guard and Wild Wood Rangers at an even footing with units of Cavalry and fast moving Monsters. Feel free to correct me if you think I'm wrong. I'm only just learning.
@tizianozannin7625
6 ай бұрын
"move through cover" allow WE to ignore the -1M penalty, but they would still be subject to all the other maluses. So it s good to receive charges, but not for charging out of woods ambush-like
@cmxpiipl
6 ай бұрын
@@tizianozannin7625yea this is so stupid. Now the woods are a shitty place for even wood elves. It makes no sense
@kingofcoinjock
6 ай бұрын
@@cmxpiipl'Move Through Cover' seems absolutely useless. It should at least affect charges.. maybe it will get buffed
@owb1979
6 ай бұрын
Without infantry what is my unkillable dragon going to kill for fun?
@JamesTillmanjimthegray
6 ай бұрын
spears and brit polearms help infantry a lot
@ruas4721
6 ай бұрын
Big units with spears are definitly viable. Handweapons are just garbage. Infantery with greatweapons are terrible af most of the time. Not fast enought to get important charges, not tanky enought to get hit and fight back, extremly expensive most of the times. Most infantery units are just anvils, but sadly very boring to play anvils. And also the horde rule is gone but hordes are still the way to go for many core units.
@triplecrownwargaming
6 ай бұрын
I don’t mind some units being anvils, that makes sense and makes for interesting games I think, as opposed to just having an army of hammers. The issue is there aren’t really any infantry units that you can truly call a hammer. I really don’t get the dislike of the look of horde units. I can understand the dislike of the rule in 8th, but big blocks of ranked up infantry is what fantasy is about for me!
@ruas4721
6 ай бұрын
@@triplecrownwargaming I dont mind hordes as an option for infantery, but if its the only way to play it "good", its just boring. Hordes are very easy to play and have boring "gameplay". In my opinion the biggest problem for infantery is the "new old system" of you cant hit back if you die. The only viable option for making damage are greatweapons, but you lose way to many models before you can hit yourself against all the fast units. Magic dont help at all too and most mages are definitly not viable in melee, besides many spells only work for the mage and its unit. Overall Old World has serious synergy problems and the intended system of rock paper scissor doesnt work out. I hope they will fix the game, but for now i will stay with Armies Project most likely. More balanced, better army buidling, more fun units.
@Grimmrog
6 ай бұрын
the problem is, most infantry is just a paper anvil and often does not last before the hammer can arrive, it is harder in this edition to prepare a flanking as a counter to an attack due to the fall back in good order rules which can cause units losing a battle to end up in a pretty bad spot for the prepared counterattack. but there is hardly anything infantry can do against some W6 S6 WS 5+ A4+ monsters out there, only those that can circumvent dicerolls, like armor or wounding (like special rules allowing this or poison attacks). Swordmasters of hoeth shown here are an exception they are basically high WS strike first greatweapons. They circumvent all that makes infantry bad currently, which is what makes them good, but across the board if you take all infantry units 80% of them are useless. Additionally, the magic knows a lot of buff spells currently and any boost on good infantry is a real puncher, while any of those buffs on bad infantry is just a mild enhancement without much use. The current magic system creates a snowball effect here.
Пікірлер: 63