Samuel Griffin patented his 6 stroke engine design the 'Griffin Simplex' in 1886 as well as other related patents. These engines were used to power generators as they were too heavy for a mobile use. However, they soon built up a reputation as reliable and dependable engines working long hours without missing a beat. Unfortunately Samuel Giffins business went bankrupt in 1923. Two working examples remain at the Bath at Work Museum in Bath England.
@driverjamescopeland
8 ай бұрын
This is actually the Crower 6-stroke, named after famed cam and valvetrain tech Bruce Crower. The injection systems and valve controls to acheive this cycle were not available in the 1860s. The engine showed great promise... but didn't see much in the way of success, due to inherent nature of water (freezing, corrosion, etc.). In stationary applications where freezing temperatures aren't a considerable factor, and weight/space isn't an issue... it's a great option.
@andrewday3206
7 ай бұрын
I spoke with Crower. They stopped developing the 6 stroke when Bruce’s health had problems.
@driverjamescopeland
7 ай бұрын
@andrewday3206 - I thought he had sold the rights prior to his passing... as it was rumored a German company and Ford were revisiting the cycle back in the late '90s/'00s. Ford abandoned their smaller industrial engine lineup. I haven't seen or heard of anything out of Germany either. The specific power density is actually lower, requiring a larger engine to produce the same amount of power. The benefit comes in the form of efficiency and duty cycle... as more energy of the original combustion event is captured, and the 6th stroke aids supremely well in cooling. The biggest problem came in the form of accelerated erosion of the ring lands and grooves. Much the same as with any other water injection system... tiny droplets of water turning to steam at such high pressures cause microscopic fractures in the surface as carbon is removed from the base metal.
@andrewday3206
7 ай бұрын
@@driverjamescopeland They may have sold the rights I am unaware of that. I had gotten in touch with them asking for assistance in using an engine as a reciprocating reformer converting hydrocarbons into H2 and CO2. Two questions Why is the specific power density lower? Seeing burning fuel produces H2O and CO2 why doesn’t that have the same effect on the metals? Your response has my interested it was thoughtful Thank You
@driverjamescopeland
7 ай бұрын
@andrewday3206 - the lower engine volume-specific power density is due to the energy source. For the sake of comparison, we'll use Bruce's eureka engine as an example. While the injected water helped to both extract more usable power from the origin combustion event... it still didn't change the fact that all your power was result of that single event, now distributed over a 50% longer cycle. Power is always limited by the amount of air/fuel the engine injests during the intake phase. While it did get more power per pound of fuel burned... it effectively reduced the intake phase by 33%. Picture it this way... a 10 cubic inch engine in 4-stroke configuration, ingests 10ci of combustible mixture for 25% of the overall cycle. A 10 cubic 6-stroke only ingests for 16.6% of the cycle... which is 9% less. The 6-stroke was also inherently more limited in it's RPM, due to precise injection timing, and diesel injectors not being particularly suited to water. All said and done, the 6-stroke proved to be about 20% less power dense compared to a typical road-going 4-stroke of the same size. As for the water causing additional wear... it's not the H²O, so much as its state. When produced in standard combustion the water is already in a vapor state. In the 6-stroke, it is injected in a liquid state... which even with stratified injection, contains droplets. These droplets often end up vaporizing at the ring lands of TDC (top dead center) displacing the far more viscous oil... not only leaving these nearly microscopic areas without lubrication, but creating pressure waves in a non-ideal location. The result while from different causes, was much the same as when cavitation erodes the edges of a boat prop. Where the engine really held promise, was industrial applications where high duty cycles typically dictate lower engine speed, larger flywheels, and considerably larger cooling systems to acheive sustained torque. The 6-stroke addressed all of these while offering two other advantages... lower cylinder count, and better fuel-specific efficiency. Bruce was basically achieving modern diesel efficiency with gasoline 30 years ago. Also, with two power strokes per cycle, and a longer relative duration of torque output... you could acheive continuous reliable torque with only three cylinders instead of 6. Even with today's material technology, primarily advanced ceramics... I doubt we could produce a injector that can reliably overcome the challenges of water. Quite the sad case, as it would make for an outstanding stationary power unit. The block would also need provisions for the ring lands... also possibly ceramic... but that's insanely expensive, low tolerance to thermal shock, and takes the potential for catastrophic failure to a whole new level.
@driverjamescopeland
7 ай бұрын
@andrewday3206 - as for your idea for a reformer... I'm curious as to why you essentially wanted to liberate the hydrogen from the hydrocarbon chain, just to have two gasses, with the carbon already oxidized and stable? I'm sure you have a purpose... I just can't quite grasp what would justify the losses.
@forkbeard606
8 ай бұрын
Water injection in the 4 stroke IC engine was developed in aircraft engines in the 1930s as well as in the gas turbine engine for jet planes. Although the 6 stroke may offer higher thermal efficiency it comes at the cost of lost additional crankshaft power to power the last two strokes. The question becomes whether the power gain from that scavenging cycle is offset as a gain by the power used to complete the last two cycles.
@Rose-f2t
8 ай бұрын
@@canadianoddy8504 Wow, with narrow minded people like you we would still be living in a cave
@mikeskidmore6754
8 ай бұрын
It does not matter. If you need more power just use a larger displacement engine. This concept is like getting some extra power out of the gasoline already burned.
@Rose-f2t
8 ай бұрын
Aircraft engines used water injection only during takeoff for the first 5 minutes. At takeoff airplanes are the heaviest and applying 100% power caused the exhaust valves to overheat, so water was injected. There was a gain in power but it was not used at cruise, since at cruise the power is set back to about 60%. Water injection was used in most airliners and military airplane engines until the mid 1950s. By then jet engines took over the airliner industry.
@adoreslaurel
8 ай бұрын
Also, if in a car, quite a sizeable water tank would need space to fit it, which means additional weight.
@mikeskidmore6754
8 ай бұрын
@@adoreslaurel I have a 7 gallon water tank on my 6 wheel drive truck with a 265 HP 3208 Cat .. 89 gallon fuel tank . 7 gallons lasts most long says .. I carry to 5 gallon gas cans with extra water in them
@maninthemiddleground2316
8 ай бұрын
Would have loved if this video provided sample power and torque numbers for comparison. Also, I think this “6-stroke” engine can actually benefit from a camless design aka freevalve using solenoids to push the valves instead. This will result in even better efficiency and more finely tuned timing.
@m.anejante1687
8 ай бұрын
Is alawys the same nonsense repeated by ignorants just to attract more ignorants. What's proposed is nonsense and makes the engine a lot less efficient.
@mikeb3172
8 ай бұрын
It gives 33% more power at the same RPM (crankshaft turns 33% more). Torque is difficult to guess. The steam expansion stroke may be more powerful than the gas/petrol stroke.
@m.anejante1687
8 ай бұрын
@@mikeb3172 No, is all BS... Goes against the rules of physics.
@shawns0762
8 ай бұрын
I have patents for this, Bruce Crower made a running engine with this basic concept. The main problem is that conventional valves will oxidize over time. I have patents that eliminate conventional valves and replaces them with a rotating shaft with angled ports in it. As the shaft turnes it opens and closes intake and exhaust ports. This also allows the intake to open at 0° TDC and close at 0° BDC which is a must for this concept
@mikeb3172
8 ай бұрын
1) The gas/petrol stroke needs around 10-15deg before TDC. 2) Valves covered in carbon (from the standard power stroke) don't oxidise.
@shawns0762
8 ай бұрын
All conventional valves need time to ramp up, in other words the intake valve is open a little when the piston is moving up. This would inevitably lead to oxidation above the valve face. The same would be true on the exhaust side, there would be a loss of steam pressure
@rpsoren
5 ай бұрын
What is your patent numbers, I'd be very interested in looking at your design. Thank you.
@shawns0762
5 ай бұрын
@@rpsoren it's a provisional patent from a few years ago. I already made a straight six model with rotating parts. The "port shaft" would be twice the diameter of the piston bore. The concept has an engine with compression ignition and no conventional cooling system. It would have 2 electronically controlled injectors per cylinder, one for fuel, one for water. When the engine reaches operating temperature the computer would alternate the firing of the water and fuel injectors.
@scootpegune609
8 ай бұрын
I can see this working well for a generator or anything stationary. In a vehicle you've got too many variables, freezing temps being one of many.
@bernieshort6311
8 ай бұрын
Excellent point as the water would have to be prevented from freezing especially when the vehicle was not in use.
@bobirving6052
8 ай бұрын
This is already solved. Many current vehicles use water injection in the engine. The military figures it out in wwII to use water/meth. Almost every vehicle driving is water objected and winter is not a problem. It’s called windshield washer fluid “injection”. 😂
@v4skunk739
8 ай бұрын
@@bernieshort6311 Anti freeze says hi.
@fstanl3636
10 күн бұрын
@@v4skunk739I don't think they will like antifreeze being burned like that...
@TheWhateverContent
6 күн бұрын
Also, cylinder wash down.
@YodaWhat
8 ай бұрын
This 6-stroke engine is interesting mainly for stationary applications, where both the injected water and the combustion water can be reclaimed and recycled using a *large radiator* to cool and condense the hot gases. That eliminates the need to continually supply new purified water from elsewhere. Radiator air temperature will still be easily hot enough for making domestic hot water, and for heating buildings, which will be great for reducing or eliminating power draw from the electric grid if the combustion fuel is still available... preferably natural gas or propane, for clean burning. Off-grid would also be possible.
@jackjones9467
7 ай бұрын
My thought was a 3-valve head, instead of a double lobe cam. 2 valves for fuel intake exhaust, 1 for water exhaust. That way you could separate straight steam exhaust to keep away from things such as a catalytic converter, as mentioned by someone in the comments, and O2 sensors and the like that may be damaged, and could possibly be recondensed as in some steam engines.
@ArnoldsDesign
8 ай бұрын
This is ingenious. Basically it's an ICE/steam engine hybrid. Using residual heat from the power stroke to create steam is a good idea. It is heat energy that otherwise would've been wasted through the radiator.
@JasonMunley-z2z
8 ай бұрын
Thank you for understanding the concept. The water used to cool the engine should be used for work instead of drained into the universe as heat.
@MattyIce2214
8 ай бұрын
Then no hot water for heater core during winter
@JasonMunley-z2z
8 ай бұрын
@@MattyIce2214 true.
@danw6014
8 ай бұрын
Steam would actually have to come into the cylinder under pressure for this to work.
@ArnoldsDesign
8 ай бұрын
@@danw6014 It would get injected as atomized water under high pressure, and then flash vaporize. Water expands at a 1600:1 ratio.
@jamest.5001
8 ай бұрын
Use the exhaust to distill the water! Use a replacable stainless steel evaporator and a condensor chamber then store the water in a pre injection tank. The evaporator evsporating water at about 2,x tfe usesge rate, when the preinjection tank is full. A valve opens/closes to keep the evaporator from burning up. It being only about 22,,gauge stainless steel about 1pint to ,,1qt. For smaller engines , on larger engines it can be mounted on the back of the cat converter. Using some of its heat basically ab1 gph tiny stream into a hot chamber between 20& 80% full of water, after a certain number of hours and loss of efficientcy the boiler/evaporator can be change or cleaned removing water deposits! Remove and soak in CLR or something!
@tristanjones7735
8 ай бұрын
I have always thought about running a boiler off the exhaust as a form of energy recovery. The problem is that your exhaust needs to be somewhat unrestricted, but have maximal surfacee area for heat transfer.
@jtdiomond1
8 ай бұрын
@@tristanjones7735 If you're somewhere that's warm enough to not need antifreeze, and engine design that can run warm enough to turn water to steam could probably run off the engine coolant, running post steamed water through the regular cooling system.
@brianolliver5506
8 ай бұрын
I thought of this 40 years ago, however my idea to take maximum utility of the waste heat was to stay at 4 cycle and gate the exhaust heat into another cylinder of suitable size to take advantage of the expansion of water which is 240 volumes, on a common crank.
@sagaronline265
8 ай бұрын
my gudness
@benjones4365
8 ай бұрын
Have a look at the 5 stroke engine.
@lcl7wrkr
4 ай бұрын
My great-uncle Leonard Dyer worked on this concept and even got a patent for it through his brother Frank, my grandfather...one thing i didnt hear mentioned is the difficulty keeping this engine lubricated during the flash from water to steam. Otto Lutz came up with something he called "Schutzol 39" in the 1940's but it was meant to prevent corrosion in his MW50 methanol/water injection system he developed during the war. But this was not intended as a lubricant, also apparently it was emulsifying just fine in water.
@rientsdijkstra4266
5 ай бұрын
This is a good example of the trickyness of computing with percentages: 50% is, and at the same time is NOT (!)) 15% than 35% (depending on the definition of %) ... It is literally 15% higher because "percents" are the things we reckon with (percent-points we would say in Dutch), however the real difference is much bigger than 15%, because 15% "percent-points" is actually 15/35 = 42.875% of 35%. So an increase the efficienty from 35% to 50% leads to a nearly 43% (!!) higher output from the engine. Or, if we for instance assume that the efficienty directly translates to range on the same amount of fuel, and we also assume that a certain amount of fuel gives a range of 100 miles with the standard engine with 35% efficiency, then the engine with 50% efficiency would give a range of 100 * (50/35) = nearly 143 miles, which is an increase of nearly 43%...
@greggc8088
8 ай бұрын
Harley would love to have it on one of their motorcycles. 😂😂
@thamesmud
8 ай бұрын
It would probably be better to think or this as a compound engine. Turbo compound aircraft engines like the Wright R 3350 took energy from the exhaust and geared it to the shaft. Napier took this concept to its logical conclusion with the Nomad 2 which gave a thermal efficiency of about 40% It ran with an overall compression ratio of about 27:1 and a manifold pressure of 89psi above atmospheric. The engine was a simple piston ported 2 stroke but the turbocharger was effectively a gas turbine and the engine pushed a lot of technical boundries for 1954. With modern common rail fuel injection and computer control the system the turbo compound deserves another go round but the Net Zero loones have killed IC development stone dead.
@Runedragonx
8 ай бұрын
This could be viable as a hydrogen engine, all the exhaust should be pure water vapor, so send the exhaust through a condenser to a storage tank where it can be used for the secondary (steam) power stroke, and have that secondary exhaust go back to the hydrolytic cell where it can be made into more fuel. You wouldn't need to refill on water as often, but the problem remains, hydrolysis requires expensive materials that *_will_* degrade rapidly. How often would one need to replace their cathodes and anodes?
@m.anejante1687
8 ай бұрын
Clearly you have read some ignorant speaking about stuff he does'nt understand and you repeat his nonsense to keep promoting ignorance. When naming anodes and cathodes you are clearly speaking about electrolysis, not hydrolisis, that has nothing to do with it. If you were at any time to take a physics book and read it, to try and learn instead of make an effort to keep ignorant, you would knew that electrolisis is a very loooooong and sloooow process, and is absolutely incompatible for use in any kind of engine/motor to make hydrogen as a source of fuel. Engines ALREADY work with hydrogen, and ALREADY produce water that gets expelled from the exhaust (watch the back of the cars on any stop and you will see them dripping) The problem is, hydrogen provides more disadvantages and difficulties than solutions, so it's needed mixed with some other stuff (carbon, nitrogen, sulfur) to stabilize it, handle it and use it safely. Also, is easier and faster to get in this way. That's why they say: Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt.
@jeffreyrousay221
8 ай бұрын
@@m.anejante1687comment sections should be about the exchange of ideas and learning, not berating people who ask questions.
@AtlasReburdened
8 ай бұрын
@@m.anejante1687The irony here is unreal. You let your eagerness to show his foolishness make a fool of you. 1st: electrolysis as he proposed isn't invalid because it's "looooong and slooooow", whatever tf that means. It's invalid because it uses more energy than you get from burning the hydrogen again, and so adding it represents system losses instead of gains. You can make it as fast as you want, but you can't make it break unity. 2nd: hydrogen isn't mixed with *cooling gasses* to "stabilize" it. It's mixed with them for the obvious reason that it combusts at temperatures that can do damage. Either straight up melting poorly cooled metal, or even in well cooled metal, rasing the surface temperature to the point that unspent hydrogen can diffuse into the metal and cause hydrogen embrittlement. If you had bothered to study anything you attempted to lecture this fellow on instead of just stretching your feeble knowledge in the hope that no one would notice, you would know all of this. Now climb down from that confidence peak on the Dunning-kruger chart, and actually study something instead of spouting your half baked psuedoknowledge dribble.
@m.anejante1687
8 ай бұрын
@@AtlasReburdened That's the problem, see.... I DID bothered to study and also made a thesis related on the matter. Once you study, you learn electrolisis is LOOOONG AND SLOW because you need HUGE ammounts of current to split TINY ammounts of water in HUGE ammounts of time, while the engine oxidizes HUGE ammounts of hydrogen in TINY ammounts of time and you can't sustain a production rate to equal consumption, not even to get close. And no, it does not uses more energy than you get from burning it, it uses the same. So, since you don't even know the first law of thermodynamics, please stop proving yourself a fool and never again speak about who studied,. because, clearly is you who didn't. And also no, is not mixed with other stuff because of burning temp... Since In an internal combustion engine efficiency benefits from heat, so more heat obtained from the fuel, more efficient the engine. Actually is mixed with other stuff, because THAT'S HOW WE COULD GET IT FROM UNDERGROUND SINCE THE BEGINNING YOU M0R0N!!!! If we could get pure hydrogen we would have used it that way from the beginning and we would have used other or better materials and or less fuel YOU M0R0N!!!.
@christmassnow3465
8 ай бұрын
I've read somewhere (Don't have the link) that the water vapor from the burning gasoline is extracted before the outflowing combustion products leave the exhaust. (The result of the combustion is carbon dioxide and water). It is possible to condense the vapor and store the water for use.
@robertdavis100
8 ай бұрын
won't the 2 power strokes have different power outputs?
@volentimeh
8 ай бұрын
Quite a lot different, but that won't harm anything mechanically, the compression and power strokes are already placing radically opposing forces on the mechanics of the engine, the "water" stroke is mild in comparison.
@philmed7675
8 ай бұрын
These engines would be awsome for backup power generation. The combination of a gasoline and steam engine, brilliant. These engines most likely could subsitute gasoline for natural gas/propane/alcohol or even hydrogen. I would guess the engine wouldn't require a cooling system. If so, you could use the cooling system as a way to distill and purify water for reintroduction in to the fuel system. So you lose a little power output. The trade off's are reasonable.
@tormado
10 күн бұрын
Very cool from an engineering standpoint. I do think that it's going to be extremely tough to make something like this power-dense enough to make any sense. I have to wonder about onboard processes for purifying or distilling water.
@krisdabaliguy6850
8 ай бұрын
I feel like if you were to make a hybrid out of this, it would be great in maybe a Prius. Gen is used to charge the batteries and power wheels. The benefits of it being in a hybrid is that you are able to have the batteries heat the tank the water is stored in
@sleepyrasta420
5 ай бұрын
All very well until it's winter and you go to start your vehicle in the morning but the water has frozen and turned to ice
@ft-shareinternational2146
5 ай бұрын
You right, I didn't think that far. :(
@GOTTHEDAWGINME
9 күн бұрын
The water would make the engine cool down and heat up repeatedly making the metal dilate and shrink down a couple times in a second, so I suppose structural rigidity is a huge challenge as well
@joejoejoejoejoejoe4391
8 ай бұрын
An ideal single expansion, non condensing steam engine will be about 11% efficient, so of the small amount of heat taken by turning the water into steam, less than 11% will be turned into power, so you're using 2 more strokes, and that friction for very little. You'd be better off just using the Atkinson cycle.
@bernieshort6311
8 ай бұрын
Another excellent point as well.
@YodaWhat
8 ай бұрын
@joejoejoejoejoejoe4391 - In your 11% figure, are you counting on preheated, pressurized water, or what? Does it include normal efficiency losses in a boiler, burning its own fuel? The full suite of details matters! An optimized version of this engine could be supplying supercritical steam made hot for free with exhaust heat.
@fullsend2908
8 ай бұрын
only requirement is distilled water. if its not crud will build up on every hot surface the water vaporizes off of
@briansture4353
8 ай бұрын
Nothing will ever replace the coil and magnet for simplicity. Magnetic power is too simple for words.
@davidbrayshaw3529
8 ай бұрын
No, but they're only one part of the equation. Faraday, Sturgeon, Tesla... they're a long time dead.
@spacesergeant101
3 ай бұрын
If this can completely replace the cooling system for an engine, and thus be variable to maintain an ideal temperature, then this would be a likely next step in engine design.
@pauloconnell7668
8 ай бұрын
Freezing temperatures would be a serious problem as antifreeze would be a contaminant.
@chrishoff402
7 ай бұрын
I'm reminded of the Saudi Prince quoted during one oil crisis that the price of a barrel of oil was cheaper than a barrel of water. Throw in the purification process for the water used in an engine of this type over regular tap water and its probably cheaper to just use a plain old gasoline powered 4 stroke engine.
@John-qc6of
8 ай бұрын
Mix water and diesel or petrol and water under a vacuum so that the emulsion does not seperate when stored. Adjust the engine timing, compression etc. A fuel water mix of 10 to 30% can work like a fuel/steam engine as the ignited portion of the mixture vaporizes the water and the steam gass/ volume is much more than just the ignite gass volume and the power output increases dramatically. The thing is to design a motor that can take this mixture but a standard diesel engine works fine with about 10% water mixed in. The water must be degassed in a vacuum chamber to remove the air so that it will stay mixed with the diesel. It does not seperate out when mixed like this even for a very long time and no emulsifing chemicals required.
@YodaWhat
8 ай бұрын
Interesting point about _degassed water!_
@buckminsterfullerene2294
7 ай бұрын
I think you are missing the point here the heat is already there, so using that heat to expand water to create steam is extremely efficient in fact it’s been around for 200 years and it’s still used today in steam turbines because it’s the most efficient 2:08 energy producing system.
@thamesmud
8 ай бұрын
A couple of issues with this would be: 1) Poor specific power output as the bmep of the steam stroke would be low. 2)Water contamination of the oil and potentiomal hydraulic locks. Steam engines have cylinder drains to cope with this. 3) If the steam in the exhaust condenses it will is likely wash out combustion pollutants and concentrate them. This might be used to control soot like a DPF but the water needs to be dealt with. Old oil engines often used water filled exhaust pits but in those days you could just dump it down the drain.
@icedout7606
8 ай бұрын
2. if you inject too much water it will become wet steam and condense. the solution is to find the ideal volume of water to be supplied so that it sufficiently cools the engine, but is still in low quantity enough that it becomes superheated dry steam, which wont condense in the cylinder 3. water reclamation and filtering from the exhaust system
@thamesmud
8 ай бұрын
@@icedout7606 Or just not bother and make a turbo compounded two stroke.
@jamescarter8311
8 күн бұрын
Seems like, although you're recapturing some of the heat energy with water, running cooler would have a negative impact on the first power stroke. I guess it works though since Porsche is doing it.
@braddofner
8 ай бұрын
I want a ICE car that turns the wheels with an electric motor and uses this engine for power production. Basically a HV generator.
@howardsimpson489
7 ай бұрын
Momentum not inertia. Water does not evaporate, it is flashed. A better approach would be to run two 4 stroke cylinders into an water injected expansion cylinder. A six cylinder engine could do this with an altered crankshaft sequence.
@joeclark7888
8 ай бұрын
It is a very interesting idea for sure.As the other commenter pointed out,will the steam cycle pay for the extra 2 strokes with something left-over? That is the question.
@happydays8171
8 ай бұрын
High school friend would win truck pull at fair (stock class, must be legal to drive on street), by bolting a hay bailer flywheel between flywheel and trans. Once he got that up to desired rpm, nothing could stop it. Why not have this engine spin at 7k rpm and power a generator that supplies power to a vehicle's wheels via electric motor, like a train? Excess electricity would be stored in a battery and not wasted. The engine would maintain it's most efficient rpm. Once the flywheel got spinning it would use less fuel to maintain the rpm because of the gyro wheel's stored inertia.
@myMotoring
8 ай бұрын
it's basically petrol-steam hybrid.
@vasiltin3314
10 күн бұрын
It will needs of water with pH 7 but destilated water is pH 5.5, in two words no future , the real future are ethanol and methanol
@DavidJohnson-yg8qm
8 ай бұрын
I'm thinking the efficiency is the important aspect here. A more efficient engine will return bettermpg in a motor vehicle. It's a pity they weren't available 20 years ago and developed further
@hillbilly4christ638
8 ай бұрын
Remember that guy Glum from Gulliver’s travels? It will never work! Look, someone will attempt to develop this idea, go looking for money, the money gets gobbled up and the project ends with investors empty handed.
@roberthirst860
8 ай бұрын
Great idea to improve efficiency, instead of dumping waste heat in an external cooling system do the cooling internally. Unfortunately it gets to minus 30 degrees here. Also steam engines use a lot of water.
@cripticdestiny
8 ай бұрын
first thing came to my mind is that a vehicle with this engine will have to carry an almost equal amount of water and fuel in two different tanks. means much more weight penalty and space needed to accomodate that water tank. which immediately eliminates motorbikes and small cars from being benefitted by this engine. even buses or trucks are out of the question. what CAN benefit from this are massive locomotives, stationary electrical generators and cargo ships with onboard reverse osmosis devices.
@forkbeard606
8 ай бұрын
Not necessarily. The amount of water needed is only enough to produce a phase change. Water goes to steam at 16 times the volume of water.
@jandoerlidoe3412
8 ай бұрын
How about using ceramic engine parts (Cylinder, piston valves ) that are stainless , allow much higher working temperatures than steel can withstand, the higher the temperature the more potent the steam that is produced....
@cadespencer6320
7 ай бұрын
ceramic is delicate though
@patturk7408
8 ай бұрын
Neat, but your second power stroke kills your thermal efficiency. It takes a lot of heat/thermal energy (2250 kJ/kg) and even though it uses some wasted heat to vaporize the H2O, it still takes energy. Any C02 left in the chamber when the water is injected, and you have a corrosive mix no matter how pure the water. There will need to be a lot of material research to make it viable. Good point on reducing/eliminating a cooling system.
@kennymichaud5366
8 ай бұрын
How’s does the engine do in cold weather when it’s freezing outside? Does the exhaust gas freeze?
@philoso377
6 ай бұрын
Nice video and presentation. However residual heat spans from the cylinder to the exhaust system. If not inject to the cylinder can be injected at the turbo rotor inlet. If any corrosion there the maintenance cost can be reduced significantly.
@IO-zz2xy
8 ай бұрын
Early VW beetles used to have a port that could be used for water injection. Regards from South Africa
@micahlawton
8 ай бұрын
Put that in a predator 212 on my go kart so it doesn’t overheat from my fat ass
@gene1554
6 ай бұрын
Could you use a 3rd valve for the second power stroke, removing the need for a water injector., making the quality of the water a bit less critical?
@alext8828
8 ай бұрын
I like it. It makes a lot of sense. I have to think about that water contamination issue some more. It seems ridiculous that such a good idea is shelved because of a water purity problem. What did the Germans do when they used water injection in the planes during WW2? Maybe they didn't care about wrecking the engines at that time. Ceramic filters come to mind. I say make it work. It's worth the effort. How much gas can it save. I bet it can save a lot.
@tonyshepherd39
7 ай бұрын
Yes but all stainless steel !👍😁
@GalenMehling
8 ай бұрын
Also distillation will only reduce corrosion of water injection systems. The water will bond with hydrocarbons causing a far more corosive and toxic byproduct
@MrMonkeybat
8 ай бұрын
When water bonds with hydrocarbons you just get simplified partially combusted hydrocarbons. That is how you make methane and hydrogen it will all just combust in the next cycle.
@igbc176
3 ай бұрын
Video starts at 4:25
@buckminsterfullerene2294
7 ай бұрын
Great concept and perhaps water can be replaced with something else to take advantage of the heat.
@daoyuzhang1648
5 ай бұрын
(usually the water is put into the combustion chamber at the start of the power stroke).
@HaroldParks-bd7ng
5 ай бұрын
With many years doing engine R&D and simulations I could spend an hour listing the problems, but the big one is low specific power output and the water. With the modern turbo car engine at 120 bhp per liter why this?
@terenceiutzi4003
8 ай бұрын
My dad had it on his model A Ford, but he had to mix 20 percent ethanol to keep it from overheating.
@christopherstaples6758
8 ай бұрын
@6:30 dump it into a condenser to recollect water or reuse for cooling a tubo down , nothing really new water injections been a thing for quite some time as a way to quickly pre cool inlet, the 6 stoke just makes use of the steam energy
@69andy55
23 күн бұрын
Excellent graphics but talks about the theoretical cycles
@jandoerlidoe3412
7 ай бұрын
Expertly made video with great graphics,clear and concise explanation and well narrated...Not really a water engine, as it still requires conventional fuel... As interesting as it is, I do not see this engine entering automotive use... too complicated and depended on a distilled water supply...
@AquaMarine1000
8 ай бұрын
Some piston ring blow-by is normal, if it contains steam which then condenses in the crankcase and mixes with the engine oil it will comprise engine lubrication.
@icedout7606
8 ай бұрын
keeping the steam superheated will prevent cylinder condensation
@AquaMarine1000
8 ай бұрын
@@icedout7606 Condensation occurs between operational cycles.
@icedout7606
8 ай бұрын
yes, maybe downstream of the exhaust system, not in the cylinder@@AquaMarine1000
@AquaMarine1000
8 ай бұрын
@icedout7606 Yes, it is normal to see water in the exhaust when an engine is cold. But the fact remains that piston rings don't completely seal. This piston ring leakage is called blowby about 0.03% for a new engine that leaks into the crankcase where the engine oil is retained. This is the main reason oil changes are required to maintain the service life of an engine. Blowby volume is at a mininium at 0.03% of six times engine pumping capacity. A modern engine incorporates a pcv valve among other systems to reduce air population. Using high-pressure steam to aid in power delivery can only increase the amount of moisture contamination in the crankcase, which in turn reduces the service life of the oil. This can be overcome by more regular oil changes if economically viable. Cheers
@icedout7606
8 ай бұрын
@@AquaMarine1000 I see your point. I misunderstood earlier. But more steam power means an average reduction in emissions per kilowatt-hour, including soot production, which means the oil will take longer to be contaminated by soot, which could balance out the water contamination - but only partially. The obvious solution is as you said an upgraded crankcase ventilation system to get rid of any steam blowby before it condenses into the oil
@colonelferringeyes9714
8 ай бұрын
And yeah oil and water make a really lovely combination when they get together don't they James....
@ml.2770
2 ай бұрын
I prefer the eight stroke engine. After the fuel power stroke, it injects water on the 2nd power stroke and then on the 3rd stroke it injects unicorn horns.
@kurtminges647
8 ай бұрын
So did we sweep the Achates engine under the rug,,, been around a hundred years and it's better cheaper lighter cooler more efficient,, you could feed it with micromist
@rogeriosartori555
7 ай бұрын
Why not using a 2nd fuel injection instead of water? You can use ethanol or gasoline itself. If using gasoline, both injectors receive fuel from the same fuel tank. If using ethanol, your car needs an additional fuel tank but you'd need it anyway for water on the original design...
@wolfschindler8921
8 ай бұрын
I had ERL water injection in my GTO twin turbo 35 years ago.
@engineerinhickorystripehat
7 ай бұрын
My money is still on the Aermotor 8 cycle , as far as commercial viability goes .
@BlueWaterRedBlood
5 ай бұрын
Toyota dynamic force engine. 4 stroke and 40-41% thermal efficiency. In production and in lots of applications
@aletrip642
6 ай бұрын
What about lubrification? Oil will mix water creating an emulsion.
@Piltexploration
5 күн бұрын
Bring back 2 stroke engines
@eckyhen
5 ай бұрын
Very clever but requires a water tank, pump, lines and injector.
@AllenBarclayAllen
8 ай бұрын
Use liquid 212 farinhight HHO for the second power stroke and you are there 5:10
@tuguybear930
6 ай бұрын
Why not have a separate piston/cylinder for the water injection phase.
@dannytu0322
8 ай бұрын
Not sure if the added complexity and challenge of sourcing distilled water will outweigh the benefits that it brings.
@brianheard4565
8 ай бұрын
An interesting novelty. Read about it then forget, the world is moving on.
@kingearl2596
8 ай бұрын
Sounds interesting, but sadly the big automotive players are never interested in such things.
@robertwolfe4152
8 ай бұрын
Need to make it out no corrosive metals and HHO for fuel, water can be filtered. .
@davenoejoe
8 ай бұрын
Should keep combusion chamber clear of carbon build up if there is any net power gain it should help the economy of the engine.
@dylancrow7919
8 ай бұрын
I have a hard time believing the 5th stroke produces much if any additional power.
@Anhedonis
8 ай бұрын
It expands 400x, so yes, it would make a lot of power.
@dylancrow7919
8 ай бұрын
Where have you got that number? Atmospheric pressure steam at 212 degrees is about 1600x volume of water. The thing I’m thinking of is that there is a dynamic curve for steam where higher target pressures require higher temperatures. So if the water cools the combustion chamber resulting in steam, where does it get the heat to add energy to the system?
@dylancrow7919
8 ай бұрын
To get 50 bar of steam. You need enough energy to vaporize the water and heat it to about 500 degrees Fahrenheit after the evaporative cooling. So now you need to inject the water at about 1000 psi to overcome the pressure in the chamber as well.
@JasonMunley-z2z
8 ай бұрын
Would it be more practical to just use the cooling system, water pump, to drive a steam turbine? As coolant boils inside the engine it could propel a turbine. It would still need a hot, high pressure end, and a cold, low pressure end, somehow.
@RicardoCruz-by7lv
8 ай бұрын
An Columbus' egg idea, for sure... since all ists drawbecks be surpassed.
@PeterBakker
7 ай бұрын
Maybe if you have ammonia ice machine youcan harvest the 25% of water
@rickfarwell4110
8 ай бұрын
Much safer than an electric vehicle!
@adriancampbell777
8 ай бұрын
SIX CYCLE ENGINE 1 INLET 2 COMPRESSION ⚡️ 3 POWER 4 EXHAUST HALF/ CLOSE VALVE RECOMPRESS ⚡️ 5 2nd POWER 6.EXHAUST Six cycle more efficient Ultimate is 4 stroke 6stroke engine ECU CONTROLLED VALVES POSSIBLE TO DO MECHANICALLY CAN RUN WITHOUT USING WATER
@RobertBeck-pp2ru
8 ай бұрын
4-stroke engine with turbo; Water/meth injection only when you need high boost power for short duration. And throw away the direct injection injector. ( A service shops' bread and butter). Keep it simple and trouble free.
@النجيبللإلكترونيك
6 ай бұрын
i dont think so if that motor have a futer why it is not developed or used since 1883
@craigbrown5359
8 ай бұрын
Wow...incredible
@fredakml2459
4 күн бұрын
Still confused on 5th stroke..how it still can produce power when all it does just compress the air back
@Bozemanjustin
8 ай бұрын
Okay, I'm not an engineer but it seems blatantly obvious to me instead of distilling water. Just condense it out of the air like yachts do If you filter the air through an air filter and then condense it, it should be pretty dang pure Also, it could be doing this in storing it in a water tank. Even when you're not driving the car it doesn't use a lot of electricity. Could just run off the cars battery So there's your unlimited source of water. You don't even have to top the tank off. My question is which stroke produces more power, the combustion or the steam? One of them has to push with a different kind of a force. You would think one more instant one more long and torquey?
@mygreatbigfoot1679
6 ай бұрын
Shouldn’t it need a different exhaust and valve system for the steam?
@mattchew-lz4jg
8 ай бұрын
Blowby products include some steam into the crankcase.
@geoffreypiltz271
8 ай бұрын
If this concept has been around for so long then why has it never been developed into a commercially sold engine?
@darwinlong8012
8 ай бұрын
The real problem is that its still trying to operate by pulling energy from fire. By its very nature, a process that needs fuel of some kind. While its true that electric vehicles, to a significant extent, get their power from a fire of some type, that fire is being used at its highest efficiency with our current technology. A piston engine is just not able to reach this level of efficiency and likely never will be.
@philipfreeman72
8 ай бұрын
Forget valves & heads opposed piston 2 stroke is way more simple.
@AllHandlesHaveBeenTaken
8 ай бұрын
I am thankful for 2x payback speed
@VintageCR
8 ай бұрын
"water that's more expensive then fuel" how about no.
@quascar5593
8 ай бұрын
Solution: remove the gas distribution system, like that of a rotary internal combustion engine. Schematic diagram of a 6-stroke internal combustion engine without gas distribution, developed in 2013. If you're interested, I can show you how to do it.
@ujification3504
8 ай бұрын
You missed out the 3 stroke ??. Are one going to be whit out any power stroke?. after water vapor gets out?
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