Babe, wake up! The Queen has returned! And she's picking water lilies for the River daughter!
@GirlNextGondor
4 ай бұрын
🏵🌼🏵
@flamingosedai1820
4 ай бұрын
lmao. Tolkien:"Don't think about Tom too much. It's not important." Fandom: " Challenge accepted."
@sirwilliam4128
3 ай бұрын
😂🤣
@pennyc8572
3 ай бұрын
I know, right?! And am I the sole fan who was glad Peter Jackson DIDN’T fool with adding the layer of Tom, et al, to the movie? That sees the Tom interlude into the rest of the narrative in LOTR as totally superfluous? I remember reading LOTR as a kid and when coming to the Bombadil/Goldberry part, thinking, “Um…why?!”. 😂
@colindunnigan8621
4 ай бұрын
As I've gotten older, I've come to appreciate Goldberry (and Tom) more. "Have peace now until the morning! Heed no nightly noises! For nothing passes door and window here, save moonlight and starlight and the wind off the hill-top."
@Enerdhil
4 ай бұрын
I am always struck by how well Tolkien writes dialogue for female characters.
@saeedshahbazian9889
4 ай бұрын
@@EnerdhilI'm always impressed by how well he writes everything 😁
@expred
4 ай бұрын
Yeah, I'd love to visit Tom's place. At the edge of adventure, a cozy and psychedelic place of comfort. And banger ass tracks to sing-along-to. Sip some magical singing water before embracing on more adventures involving evil trinkets, wraiths and whatnot. It's such a breath of comfort, yet in a mystical way. My headcanon is that Merry and the Pippin picked up some psychedelic mushrooms by accident from the Old forest, explaining some of these events and Tom is just a normal dude singing a lot. Okay I'm just joking around here. Maybe... Anyway, I always used to skip it, now I love reading these passages. So on the same boat as you :) edit: i realize now your comment was more about Goldberry as is the video; I just woke up and not fully cognizant yet, sorry. Anyway, I also love Goldberry's mystical aura and near-annoying ambiguity about Tom. "He is, as you have seen him." Okay, thanks for the info :D
@Makkaru112
4 ай бұрын
@@Enerdhil notice how treebeard/Fangorn speaks several lines of Tom. Gandalf does too. In the movies.
@Makkaru112
4 ай бұрын
@@expred hundreds have said that skipping Tom and the song and poems and or the description of a tree and a leaf or something on the side of the road don’t get Tolkien. As it’s all important. Heck. Even faramir said to Frodo he wouldn’t take the ring even if he saw it on the side of the road somewhere.
@jpbjoel
4 ай бұрын
With Goldberry and Tom, I’ve often thought of them as demonstrating in their marriage the interaction between Nature and Mankind if Mankind had not Fallen. The elves had not fallen as a race (they had as individuals) and Nature entwined with them, and together, places of beauty and solace were created. Goldberry and Tom showed what the interplay of unfallen Mankind and Nature would be like. More rustic, closer to the beating heart of the Earth, less etherial and more sensual than the elves, rustic and more fun, but no less wonderful. The Eruhini are of Arda, but fallen Man is distanced from it. G&T give a glimpse of what life in Arda would be like for unfallen men. I haven’t pondered on this in some time, but it’s how G+T make the most sense to me. That’s the best thing about your videos for me, Lexi. Even when real life is crazy for months on end, you create a moment to allow me to revisit Tolkien’s work - and that allows me the space to think about different, simpler, but in many ways deeper things.
@Duiker36
4 ай бұрын
I really like how you've phrased this, and I pretty much agree.
@izzycurer1260
4 ай бұрын
Sounds kind of like Enkidu and Shamhat in the epic of Gilgamesh.
@rikk319
3 ай бұрын
How can you fall as a race and still have individual free will?
@akseiya
2 ай бұрын
@@rikk319 How can you have individual free will but somehow not fall as a race?
@rikk319
2 ай бұрын
@@akseiya If you're judged on your individual choices, your race has nothing to do with it.
@TolkienLorePodcast
4 ай бұрын
Whoa, the parallels with Galadriel are eerie. Can’t believe I never noticed that before!
@ninasurr3902
4 ай бұрын
I always thought she had a touch of Persephone - she appears at the cusp of summer and fall, and the perils the hobbits face are natural and alive before they meet the Bombadils (Old Man Willow) and dead and supernatural after (the barrow wights).
@crhu319
4 ай бұрын
I would love Overly Sarcastic Productions take on that! They did wonderful deconstructions of Persephone
@eluthiccgol4715
4 ай бұрын
Oooh. Really like the idea of Goldberry being a Maia of Ulmo.
@paulbrickler
4 ай бұрын
I think she most likely was, a lower-level one, a river-sprite Maia in the company or service of Uinen.
@Enerdhil
4 ай бұрын
I like that concept too.
@c.antoniojohnson7114
4 ай бұрын
I believe she's a river sprite, lower level.
@johnscanlon8467
4 ай бұрын
I think it comes close to the answer, but don't forget she's the river-woman's _daughter_, not the river-woman herself. As far as we know from the Silmarillion, none of the Ainur have offspring among themselves, but there is a precedent for one reproducing with an Elf (Melian the Maia and Elwë/Thingol, parents of Luthien). So my hypothesis is that a Maia of Ulmo (embodiment or guardian of the Withywindle, or possibly Baranduin) was involved with a non-famous elf in the distant past, and Goldberry is the result. It's simplest to assume an elven father who departed west due to physical death or ennui, because in Tolkien's world a human/maiar couple wouldn't happen. (In GRRM's world, her father would of course be Bombadil himself.)
@Enerdhil
4 ай бұрын
@@johnscanlon8467 Goldberry a child of Ulmo?! 😱 It would explain why he isn't married, though.😅
@paulbrickler
4 ай бұрын
Once again, I'd like to compliment you on your art selection for the visuals. I watch other Tolkien channels and see a lot of the same (very, very well-produced) images repeated there. Many of your selections are new to me and equally well done.
@GirlNextGondor
4 ай бұрын
Thank you!!
@kayla-Rey22
4 ай бұрын
@@GirlNextGondor So who on earth was that supposedf to be in the final art photo? Goldberry is described as being as slender as a willow-wand yet the person depicted in that picture is anything but slim. Her thigh is thicker than my whole body. Has Goldberry benn on steroids?
@andrayellowpenguin
4 ай бұрын
I always thought Goldbery very interesting and could never understand why almost nobody talks about her, when everyone is wondering about Bombadil. So happy to see this video! ❤
@pwmiles56
4 ай бұрын
It's probably not very important, but I think it likely that Goldberry descends from the river-fairies in The Water-Babies (1863) by Charles Kingsley -- a strange, pro-Darwinian children's story which was a Christmas gift-book in Tolkien's youth. The fairies are portrayed similarly to real water-creatures, rather like young-Goldberry, and they have a Queen who would be the River-woman.
@Makkaru112
4 ай бұрын
And said mother easily has a connection as a Maia of Ulmo’s lot
@itsjkforreal
3 ай бұрын
... i.o. descends - ascends maybe?
@pwmiles56
3 ай бұрын
@@itsjkforreal I meant it was her ancestry as a concept :-))
@michaelogrady232
4 ай бұрын
"And her heart was beating!" A very interesting observation.
@GirlNextGondor
4 ай бұрын
Rules out barrow-wight, I should hope 🤣 💗
@michaelogrady232
4 ай бұрын
@GirlNextGondor It implies perhaps there were other similar beings that did not have beating hearts, that were purely spiritual, or illusory. From the time I first read it as a much younger man it always seemed a strange way to describe a corporeal being. To be sure, Tolkien did not just add the line as filler.
@Enerdhil
4 ай бұрын
@@GirlNextGondor Yes. Goldberry has white arms, not wight arms.
@Requiemslove
4 ай бұрын
I always read it as a double meaning, in that first he was surprised at Goldberry being corporeal, maybe she'd been taunting him and tricking him for a considerable time? And he didn't "think" she was, but some incorporeal spirit playing tricks on him. But also, and more immediate, the quite obvious boy meets girl meets boy scenario. "And her heart was a beating". I wouldn't be surprised if her reprise was "and his feet were a floundering"
@pwmiles56
4 ай бұрын
@@Requiemslove She's actually a semi-transparent river-nymph, of a kind known to biology, being larvae of insects such as mayflies, damselflies and dragonflies.
@alesiabradley5399
4 ай бұрын
I love the characters of Tom Bombadill and Gold Berry. I felt that the fellowship of the ring wasn't complete without them in the movie. I was also disippointed about the fight for the shire. That should have been included too.
@crhu319
4 ай бұрын
The movies are crap without those. Those two events are the absolute soul of the book. They symbolize Tolkien's utopic Catholic vision of what life could be, and how to feel to achieve it, AND that you cannot ever "go home again" after participating in any conflict abroad. It changes you AND your home. These are absolutely the critical points Tolkien made about conflict and harmony. It also makes no sense that the hobbits become leaders at home with no demonstration of what they had learned in war.. and how Frodo felt isolated in a Shire touched by war. SO MUCH could have been done with both. Instead we got what seems like 20.minutes of gay-adjacent greetings and battle scenes that should have been laid aside for the extended edition so the emotional parts of the story got more space. For this reason I don't mind at all extending Arwens part so much, she is serving as Goldsberry and Glorfindel both. As wormtongue kills Sharkey anyway this is less shifty but misses that the setting is the point.
@lotsofspots
4 ай бұрын
When you said "wights' barrow" I heard it as "white sparrow" and was momentarily confused. This has been your help-with-the-algorithm interaction for today!
@MatejCadil
4 ай бұрын
I love seeing my illustration used in the video! 😁 Great video as always, I love especially the comparison of Goldberry with Galadriel. It was always obvious that there was a similarity, but the number of parallels in the narrative is striking. And at the same time the differences are even more interesting. Goldberry representing the seasonal changes in natural landscape, whereas Lothlórien is so enchanted in its time bubble, that even the seasons do not work there as they would normally do.
@wxwaxone
4 ай бұрын
The observation of Goldberry’s expressly emphasized seasonality being the opposite of Galadriel and her Wood’s expressly emphasized disruption of the usual seasons is really important, I think. Tolkien did that on purpose, for certain.
@SG-1-GRC
4 ай бұрын
I always got the feeling that Tom and Goldberry were aligned to the spirit of place 'gods'. River spirits in Goldberry's case and certainly in Tom's case you gather that within his own 'Kingdom' he's very powerful. So much so that the ring has absolutely zero influence on him. But outside of it might well be another matter. Both Tom and Goldberry are clearly closely aligned to nature and Tom's chief role seems to be both to nurture it and prevent it from being imbalanced, hence his contention with 'Old Man Willow' which is a form of nature turned into a malevolent force. In either case everything about Tom and Goldberry is always tied to place. They are reminiscent of the lesser Gods of place worshiped in particular by the Romans and by the Teutonic and Celtic peoples. Gods tied to a particular river, spring, forest or even a region. All powerful in their own place but otherwise limited in power. Tom contends with local matters, his enemies are local, his wife local, his acquaintances generally come to see him (not the other way around) unless they live nearby, like Farmer Maggot. He is tied to 'place'.
@retbookers
4 ай бұрын
I love Tolkien's ethereal description of Lady Goldberry. The man had a way with words.
@robertcoplin2830
4 ай бұрын
I've wondered about Goldberry. She and Tom are favorites of mine. I think that the idea that she is linked with Ulmo, perhaps a Maia, makes a lot of sense. I also have wondered if she and Tom are Elementals of something like. It seems likely that they were sung into existence when Middle Earth was.
@Enerdhil
4 ай бұрын
You mean during the Ainulindalë? That could be true.
@tiltskillet7085
4 ай бұрын
Why, the answer is right there, Springing fair in the video: Goldberry, GNG my dear, she's a merry yellow berry-o!
@robingile4301
4 ай бұрын
Meeting a lady at the river can be life changing.
@EriktheRed2023
4 ай бұрын
Leonard Cohen wrote a song about that.
@michaelman957
4 ай бұрын
I always figured Tom was basically Man before the Fall (an un-Fallen Adam), so Goldberry could be an un-Fallen Eve.
@gganbp
4 ай бұрын
Haven't seen the video yet, but I gotta say you always come up with the best video ideas. We all love to theorize on merry fellow Bombadil, but Goldberry is as mysterious as him. Surely we can learn more about Tolkien's world by diving into her character. Edit: Watched it now, I loved to hear about Goldberry's connection to Ulmo and especially her place in the story and themes of LOTR. Her and Bombadil are more connected to Middle-Earth (both in universe and in the meta narrative) than I had previously thought. Beautifully crafted video 💛
@joshuapatrick682
4 ай бұрын
the River daughter? boom... when's lunch?
@GirlNextGondor
4 ай бұрын
It's right now, apparently 🤣
@joshuapatrick682
4 ай бұрын
@@GirlNextGondor :)
@joshuapatrick682
4 ай бұрын
@@GirlNextGondor hey am I dreaming or did you change the title because I feel like I wouldn't have made that joke if it was up there already? I won't tell if you did.
@hipsterhunter4eva901
4 ай бұрын
This was fr a great video. I loved the comparisons to Galadriel. I never thought of her as a “Galadriel-warmup.” I also love that you dissected Goldberry as opposed to Tom. I don’t think I’ve seen another Tolkien channel do that.
@sulljoh1
4 ай бұрын
70th birthdays are beautiful 💜❤️ 80 and 90 are hard but most of us will get 70
@frankydaulman2291
4 ай бұрын
Ahh the unique and beloved Goldberry thankfully getting some attention at last. Blessings of Elbereth upon you.
@AmatureAstronomer
3 ай бұрын
Tom? "Old Tom Bombadil is a merry fellow, Bright blue his jacket is, and his boots are yellow. None has ever caught him yet, for Tom, he is the Master: His songs are stronger songs, and his feet are faster." Goldberry is Tom's wife.
@RJCE420
4 ай бұрын
She is the River-woman's daughter
@David.Bowman.
4 ай бұрын
I don’t believe there is a River woman. I think it’s a deliberate mistranslation, a device of Tolkien to pick homophones but to use both their meanings from different languages. In this case in Welsh (the inspiration for Sindarin) the word ‘merch’ can be ‘woman, girl, maiden’. But in other languages, the word ‘merc’ is at the root of words meaning ‘mark, boundary, border’ ie Mercia, Westmarch, the Marish etc So I think ‘river woman’s daughter’ is more like ‘daughter/maiden of the river’s edge/border’. What’s fun is applying this concept to other names and I found something interesting for Finduilas: (also from Welsh) Ffin > of ‘boundary, border’ Dwr > water Las > maybe short for ‘lass’ girl/maiden (as in ‘Frodo-lad’ and ‘Rosie-lass’) So ‘Finduilas’ can perhaps also be interpreted as ‘maiden of the river’s edge/border’🫠
@ravendelacour1917
4 ай бұрын
That translation suggests Goldberry is a liminal being between the elemental realm of water and the material world.
@David.Bowman.
4 ай бұрын
@@ravendelacour1917 Indeed. And one has to wonder what water we might be discussing and what kind of border. Can you think of another example, perhaps more biological than geological?
@ravendelacour1917
4 ай бұрын
@@David.Bowman. Are you aware of the mythic concept of the Anima/Animus, the living spirit of a place? Goldberry strongly resembles such a being embodying the waters of the Old Forest and Tom the land. Each representing where raw primal nature of the land and the human intersect. Their relationship embodying the water and land mingling and providing the land life.
@David.Bowman.
4 ай бұрын
@@ravendelacour1917I wasn’t familiar with that term but they definitely do fit that description! I was being more broad - though not unrelated - the ‘border’ is a womb, and the ‘water’ being amniotic fluid. What’s fun is if you break down the name Elbereth Gilthoniel: ‘gilth’ could come from the Gothic/Germanic ‘kilþei’ meaning ‘womb, uterus’. ‘oniel’ could be a singular suffix taken from Latin ‘-onia’, which formed Roman goddess names. Which brings me back to my other comment where I mentioned the British legend of Sabrina of the River Severn. Which matches up nicely with your description 😊 So Goldberry can also be linked through metaphor, etymology and mythology to Varda herself!
@kelleyursu8610
4 ай бұрын
Goldberry; don’t keep her waiting
@oldlifter530
4 ай бұрын
I just thought of Tom as representing Tolkien's love of Great Britain's country and country folk.
@DrTimes99
4 ай бұрын
She's the secret love child of Ulmo and Yavanna. As a result she is not a Valar or Maiar. as she was never an Ainur. Yet she is clearly not a Child of Illuvitar. The stillness of a flowing river, or the persistence of change in the seasons, a being of beautiful paradox.
@sbeaber
4 ай бұрын
That... is, surprisingly, not a bad theory. A child of two Ainur... Great theory!
@Requiemslove
4 ай бұрын
An interesting theory, but it is flawed. The problem is, Eru is THE God. The first and the timeless, the immutable, the forever, the has always, will always be. Eru, created everything, even that which Eru didn't consciously bring into being, exists due to Eru's subconscious thought filling in the blanks. That is what the "nameless" and such as Ungoliant are. Ultimately, everything owe's its creation to Eru, for only Eru "can" create. If Goldberry is the love child of Yavanna and Aule, well, guess what, the conception of that is because of Eru, on a very real biological level. Eru is THE God of Tolkien's world. And much like God, for Tolkien, creates EVERYTHING as far as he as a Christian, is concerned, so does Eru. They are one and the same concept. Goldberry is then a child of Illuvator, because EVERYTHING is. [Even Tom Bombadil]
@wxwaxone
4 ай бұрын
What a theory!
@DrTimes99
4 ай бұрын
@@Requiemslove Child of Illuvitar in this sense is a reference to the Children of Eru Illuvitar, those being Elves, Men, and the "adopted" Dwarves. Goldberry is not any of those three.
@Requiemslove
4 ай бұрын
@@DrTimes99 Yes. I know that. You merely quote the Silmarillian, Dr Times. But Eru created far more than the "races". Directly or indirectly, Eru creates EVERYTHING that exists in all of the universe of that fiction. That includes all the Valar, the Maia and all the lesser spirits after which. Be that direct creation or indirect creation. Direct being that which Eru is well aware that Eru did. Indirect being either that which came FROM what Eru created, as in the albeit rare progeny OF Valar's and maia, or that which Eru subconsciously made, because EVERYTHING needs an opposite. That is for example what Ungoliant is about. Yes, in fact, Eru CREATED Ungoliant. Whether Eru would choose to accept that or not. What I am saying here is that in the case of Goldberry, whatever she "is" directly or indirectly she was created by Eru. There's no way she could "not" be, because EVERYTHING see's it's uttermost source in Illuvatar. From the children Eru claims directly to every spirit Eru fashioned in the dawn of time itself to "not be lonely", to the nameless and the evil and the foul things that crawl around in the dark recesses away from the light, to every progeny of any sentient creature that has ever been. All of it, EVERYTHING is created by Eru. Eru is the spark that causes everything that has ever or will ever be, cause to be. The alpha and omega and every other phrase. The centre of all that there is. Because Eru is THE God of Tolkien's fiction, and is much akin to Tolkien's Christian God. [That is regardless of any of us knowing in the very LITERAL sense that Tolkien himself, made everything, that is a moot point in the case of the canon of the fiction]
@emdeejay7432
4 ай бұрын
Perfect discussion to listen to while im outside transplanting a bunch of seedlings in the fog while its lightly misting rain. Not rain just mist drops. Perfect discussion for this. Loved it thanks.
@louisebrouillette5580
4 ай бұрын
Goldberry has always fascinated me, so thank you, Lexi, for this deep dive into her lore. It's a great day when GirlNextGondor teaches us!
@Scrub_Jake
3 ай бұрын
Man I love being in the time I’m in… my father was an arguably bigger Tolkien fan than anyone I’ve ever met, read everything, watched everything, etc… but he never really got to experience such philosophy on the topics as I get from these kinds of videos. Thank you young lady, every year my respect for Tolkien and his effect on the modern world grows.
@jamiee7367
4 ай бұрын
A thought occurred to me during the discussion of Goldberry possibly being a Maia of Ulmo: If I'm not mistaken (please correct me if I am), Tolkien didn't fully abandon the concept of some Maiar being children of the Valar until _after_ the publication of LotR. So in that context, Goldberry being "daughter of the River" might then take an interesting meaning.
@Enerdhil
4 ай бұрын
Nevertheless it is ancient lore, which Tolkien would dismiss later in his life.
@Requiemslove
4 ай бұрын
@@Enerdhil He would be the authority on it all. Still, it's interesting to consider nonetheless. I get the impression he abandoned that specific strand because of the sheer headache it would cause. How much bigger would the geneology be if the Valar and offspring [?] were also included? [Along with all Samwise's children, ETC...]
@GravesRWFiA
4 ай бұрын
the 2nd night in the house Frodo's dream implies a link between the house and the West. goldberry being a miar of Ulmo makes a lot of sense suddenly
Having watched farther, I change my answer to Tom being an uncorrupted Man (evil thus has no power over him, nor even does death) wooing a playful Maiar. Which is honestly quite a wholesome romance.
@tarkadal5563
4 ай бұрын
This doesn’t make sense to me, because Men in Tolkeins lore were always subject to death, death being Iluvatar’s gift to men.
@Requiemslove
4 ай бұрын
He is described differently to that of a man. If I recall he is described as somewhat taller and yet as burly as any dwarf yet shorter in stature than a man. Beside which he is known as "the first". If we take that literally, the FIRST sentient being, period. At the least of flesh and blood. Tom was walking before there were the Elves. No Ent's had been created, and no Dwarfs were awake yet. I see him more as a caretaker sent to Arda by the authority [Eru] to better prepare it for what was to come, which eventually set aside that duty when Bombadil found a spot in Arda that Bombadil cherished. We have to remember that even the Ainur didn't take up physical forms until they went to what would become the "undying" lands. Which lends credence to the very real possibility that Bombadil really WAS the first. [as in the first sentient being sent to Arda] I see it as Eru cast about Eru's gaze, looking for a likely gardener, and then fixated on whatever passes for the spirit of Tom Bombadil, who was more than willing to fulfil that role. [initially]
@HonkIfYouLoveBeer
4 ай бұрын
Bombadillowing! 😂 I’m using this moving forward as a gentler synonym for ‘faffing about,’ like the crooked-yet-joyous path to completing weekend chores
@JanjayTrollface
4 ай бұрын
I can't believe I hadn't really noticed most of the many parallels between Goldberry and Galadriel.....
@Marcelocostache
4 ай бұрын
Most likely she is a minor god ( a Maia)
@tornadomuchacho
4 ай бұрын
I was so excited when I saw this content in my feed. Thank you!
@DavidRoberts
4 ай бұрын
Thanks for another video! Always a good day when they land. I like how you even formatted Tom's prose with linebreaks to reflect the poetic meter of his speech 🙂
@omarsalama484
4 ай бұрын
Best channel on KZitem!! ♥️
@ImagineMySurprise510
4 ай бұрын
I think I favor the idea that Bombadil is a manifestation of Ea itself, which is the master but does not dominate others, and Goldberry is that part of Ea that is the progress and process of the living things on Ea, the turning of the seasons, and the things that a life on Ea. Thus Bombadil and Goldberry work in concert to make a total whole. This is reflected in how they worked separately yet clearly in concert in laying the table before the meal.
@1977rodi
4 ай бұрын
I'm glad you talked about her. She's one of my favorite characters of The Lord of the Rings novels.
@stoner36s
4 ай бұрын
Married with three children, divorced, re-married for coming up on twenty years. I wish I had met a woman in my youth who came close to your interest in Tolkien. You/she would have been my Rosie Coton. My wife supports/entertains my obsession with Tolkien, but she doesn't get it.
@PrometheanRising
4 ай бұрын
To love Tolkien is to be like the elves and live in two worlds at once.
@expred
4 ай бұрын
@@PrometheanRising Well put! Perhaps that's also why getting immersed in Tolkien lore seems so therapeutic to me, it's a different world I love to learn more about, and it feels I've been living there for a long time.... yet simultaneously I live in a completely different world to it. The other world (Tolkien's lore) is quite like being able to see to the Unseen realm, a place where other fans dwell, yet while inhabiting the "Seen world". hehe. Listening to a lore channel like this one really sends my mind to another place... another mind, actually, that of Tolkien's. I know Tolkien himself thought that Middle Earth is the same world as the world we live in ; while I don't personally like to consider this canon (even though it is), that means we Tolkienists could also say we're living in two different eras, instead of worlds, at once :)
@expred
4 ай бұрын
I can partially relate, however I wanna say it's delightful how these days we can at least discuss these matters online with other fans so easily :) Different people in my life have different roles, one person does not have to fill all the needs we have. Obviously it would be amazing to have a partner who loves discussing Tolkien, but the main thing is she supports and entertains it. And you can talk about the topic with other people, for example right here. But I get what you mean. My friend, married for 10 years, said "She never really understood Tolkien though... Well, there's still time for a divorce" LOL (this was a joke between us, obviously this is not something to have a divorce over. But a good laugh we had over it) edit: replying here to @stoner36s ... KZitem comments are quite confusing sometimes, to realize who is talking to who.
@ecthelion1735
4 ай бұрын
I like how you put the Slender as a willow-wand poem on top of the Chonkberry fan art 😂
@redstarling5171
3 ай бұрын
Butterberry
@napoleonfeanor
4 ай бұрын
At the council, it seems Gandalf had no idea Tom was still there while Aragorn seemed to know him.
@joannakeenan3355
4 ай бұрын
It was Elrond who had forgotten Tom, not Gandalf. Elrond then wondered aloud if he was the same being as was heard of long ago, and if he was, should he have been summoned to the council. Gandalf just says that Tom would not have come.
@fluorotoluene
4 ай бұрын
I always thought of Tom as an embodiment or necessary aspect of *the* song, and as Goldberry as a singer of some sort - a Maia of Ulmo definitely works
@jpfischer6003
4 ай бұрын
This channel fucking gets it
@hglundahl
4 ай бұрын
Alors, belated happy birthday to Papa Burns, and Blessed Pentecost in advance!
@beatleblev
4 ай бұрын
I get the impression that Goldberry was one of the Children of the Valar from the early Legendarium who was retained and used in the LotR as a transition from the Shire to the wider world the Hobbits will be plunged into in the near future. She might have been a daughter of Ulmo at one point instead of one of his people. I think of her as the Kami of the Withywindle. Perhaps during the Shaping of Arda, some Maiar were assigned certain land / water features and some of those Maiar became attached to their pet project in the same way that other Ainu get attached and then confined into a particular form. The closest Ainu to Goldberry for me is crotchety old Carhadras. If it took physical for I imagine it would look like old Clint Eastwood yelling, "Get Off My Lawn!" Sweet Goldberry is his opposite in personality of course, but they are the sort of fey nature spirits that were part of the Legendarium before the Valar went from gods to angels.
@istari0
4 ай бұрын
Interesting thought. I wonder if there is anything specific in either volume of The Book of Lost Tales that talks about a character that could have been proto-Goldberry.
@Enerdhil
4 ай бұрын
"Children of the Valar" is an old lore concept. I am not a fan of them having kids.
@Enerdhil
4 ай бұрын
Are you using the Japanese word "Kami" for "God?" Are you making a reference to Miyazaki's "Sen to Chihiro no kamikakushi?" (Spirited Away)
@Enerdhil
4 ай бұрын
You don't think Melian is closer to Goldberry?
@Requiemslove
4 ай бұрын
@@Enerdhil Neither was Eru. In my head-canon, when Melian had a child Eru began to try and crunch the numbers of the eventual geneology, got a SERIOUS headache and then decided "you know what, it's hard enough work keeping tabs on all the MORTAL babies, I don't WANT this headache as well". And then just snapped Eru's fingers, or whatever Eru does when Eru makes a choice, and, no more Valar babies. I guess even one true Gods have second thoughts every once in a while...
@zimmerwald1915
4 ай бұрын
1:46 Totally heard this as "white sparrow" at first, did a double take.
@GirlNextGondor
4 ай бұрын
Little known fact, the Downs were infested by the feral descendants of the Witch-king's aggressive albino songbird collection. Or maybe I made that up just now.
@zimmerwald1915
4 ай бұрын
@@GirlNextGondor If Saruman can have the allegiance of crebain out of Fangorn and Dunland, surely the Witch-King can have seduced some of the birds of the north to his service.
@SPierre-dm4wo
4 ай бұрын
@@GirlNextGondor I also heard "white sparrow" and had a good laugh (in my defense, my cats are reenacting the Kin-strife at top volume tonight). But thinking about the hypothetical albino sparrows now... those have a LOT of creepy potential. Imagine them congregating around travelers on the downs as the first sign of the coming of the mist...
@Enerdhil
4 ай бұрын
@@SPierre-dm4wo Harbingers of mist.🤔 Makes sense.😁👍
I went through a stage of obsessing about Tom and Goldberry trying to work out what and who they are. Then the conclusion I reached is they are magical beings, mysterious and ancient the remains of things long gone and forgotten from history never recorded and remembered only by a few of the wise. They are an enigma and that is what they are and who they are - understanding them is like trying to catch smoke in your hands or hers cats - if you come close to understanding them they evaporate and disappear an answer doesn't exist it eludes understanding- they simply 'are' and that is all anyone can know, it's a zen like answer and I think that is what Tolkien meant - that sometimes awe or fascination is enough and all we can hope for with characters like this as they are beyond any other form of analysis.
@eliscanfield3913
4 ай бұрын
Maybe it helps that Goldberry has a rather hobbit-ish name while Galadriel has a pretty foreign one from the hobbits' perspective. It probably feels a bit more comfortingly familiar; it's certainly not ethereal.
@JohnDoe-nq4du
4 ай бұрын
Leave it to Tolkien to write a mayfly-december romance in which the immortal nature spirit is the mayfly side of the equation.
@Makkaru112
4 ай бұрын
What about her connection to being the lost Maia of Ulmo? Winglid? Mermaids have their own origins in real world mythology. So if 'Wingildi' means 'foam-maidens' there is a very obvious cognate with the origins of Aphrodite/ Venus aka the Morning Star. Nice shiny Venus up in the firmament, a merry yellow berry-o indeed.
@Makkaru112
4 ай бұрын
I’d love to hear your reply. Thanks for the heart sticker
@rubycube1506
4 ай бұрын
She's clearly Anna Livia Plurabelle 🙃 (Sorry but I always think of her when reading or listening/watching something about women somehow magically associated with rivers/ponds.)
@LordTelperion
Ай бұрын
I still feel Tom and Goldberry are Ainur. Tom feels like a Maia of Yavanna or Vana, and of course Goldberry a Maia of Ulmo.
@Requiemslove
4 ай бұрын
Well, she's a river spirit, under the governance of Ulmo. I'd say then that she's a lesser spirit, and probably one of considerable numbers. For every major river would have a river spirit, to look out for and protect it. Where Ulmo governs all major bodies of water between lands [the seas] it makes a lot of sense that he would have seneschals and the like operating on his behalf under his guidance. And Ulmo is of course a spirit of Eru's. Should there be other realms unmentioned, outside of Arda, undoubtedly Eru thought up other Ainur's to aid Eru in the building of such realms. The Ainur we know of are the ones of Eru's thought who helped Eru to shape the realm of Arda, after all. Eru itself is... a fictional version of THE God. And pertaining to all that would imply. So, ever knowing, omnipresent, has always and will always be, the whole nine yards. Much like God as in THE God, Eru just... is. A frustrating answer no doubt, but only as much as the version we have in the REAL world.
@shdwbnndbyyt
4 ай бұрын
While I love the works of Tolkein... Bored of the Rings has a great version of Tom & Goldberry....
@jornspirit
4 ай бұрын
...a brilliant exploration and analysis of Goldberry as a character, and looking at the interplay between her and Tom, as well as looking into the similarities and differences with Galadriel is very enlightening, while you show all the respect to not nail her down unnecessarily, as well as Tom... beautifully done - love it! I'm sure that Tolkien put much care, intuition and attunement into the choices of names, pairing up, may it be Sauron and Saruman, Arwen and Eowyn, Boromir and Faramir, or... Galadriel and Goldberry - they share the 'G' as a door into the vibration of their name, between them, but also with Gandalf... co-incidence? - I don't think so. 🌈
@daHarry-ec4ce
4 ай бұрын
for me, Tom and goldberry represent this aspect of the world that "just is", irrespective of whether some upright walking apes (or diminutive soon-to-be heroes) can understand it or not. Some things we just, as an individual, won't know or understand, try as we might....
@zotfotpiq
4 ай бұрын
Tom's a big doof? How does he end up with a babe like Goldberry? Because "getting the girl" is more about being able to make her feel like she's a water goddess than it is about your abs. Be fat and happy and please your wife if you're ever lucky enough to have one, boys. Pick more flowers. Be like Tom. 😉
@mattcarnevali
4 ай бұрын
I’ve always thought of Tom and Goldberry as Father Time (he always existed) and Mother Nature
@izzycurer1260
4 ай бұрын
Tokein hated allegory, so anything he meant by his stories was unintentional unless he was unconsciously channeling some cosmic truth. That being said, if Galadriel is the Empress in a deck of tarot, then Goldberry is the Queen of Hearts. So, basically the same thing, just with some nuance.
@סערתלם
3 ай бұрын
do not really know if Tolkien sympathized with eastern philosophy, but after watching your inquisitive video, it seems that they might represent the yin yang dance at the core of creation.
@DominusHydra40k
3 ай бұрын
I do not care what anybody says. For me.. Tom is J.R.R. himself and Goldberry is his wife.
@napoleonfeanor
4 ай бұрын
I have always obeyed what Tolkien said. Accept them as mysteries.
@anchuisneoir3973
4 ай бұрын
I've always wondered if Tom got around to talking foxes in his monologue given that he did talk about badgers and their queer ways.
@davidanderson_surrey_bc
4 ай бұрын
Who knew you could get 32 minutes of great scholarship out of such scant source material?
@timgearinjr9962
4 ай бұрын
Goldberry as a daughter of the valar was always my belief and Tom is the first archetype "man" was also my thought . He stopped heading west when he met goldberry . The love of your life is more important than your life's journey , they become your life . Just my thoughts . Thank you for your site/ page ....
@bryano1476
4 ай бұрын
I think both Tom and goldberry represents the Tolkien and his wife.
@reflectiverambling1148
4 ай бұрын
This is a total crackpot theory... but as Ulmo had such care for those who went to ME... is it possible that seh is the daughter of Osse and Uinen? osee was a guard of oceans around middle erth, and Unien calmed seas...a child of two maiar would give her the same mysticism as galadriel carries about her...
@Enerdhil
4 ай бұрын
Except for Melian, Ainur don't have children.
@GirlNextGondor
4 ай бұрын
Well, 'River-woman' isn't too bad of a title for Uinen (in her freshwater aspect) and if anyone were to have unauthorized Maia-babies, it would be Osse 🤣 Maybe this is what gave Uinen's plea that Osse be accepted back after his repentance such weight. (dramatically flings off concealing mantle to reveal The Bump) "YOU ARE NOT MAKING ME RAISE THIS IDIOT'S CHILD ALONE."
@Requiemslove
4 ай бұрын
@@GirlNextGondor I think it depends on who/what you mean with the authority. I always saw it like this. If it's the pantheon of the Ainur, the Valar and the Maia below them, their authority is more like "it is decreed". But if it is THE authority, singular, as in the one, Eru Illuvator, that's different. How could Osse and Uinen have a child if Eru has removed the ability for creations of Eru's thought, to even "try" and procreate? They would have to undo literally, what God has done. I can't help thinking that would just not be allowed, or, if it was, they'd be made to pay dearly for it. [and would probably have to directly beseech Eru and come to some manner of accord]
@Enerdhil
4 ай бұрын
@@GirlNextGondor Ossë's toxic masculinity makes Maia-babies.😂🤣😆
@Enerdhil
4 ай бұрын
@@GirlNextGondor There are certainly some females that are attracted to violent males.
@Marty-z1y
4 ай бұрын
There's a theory that Ungoliant and the nameless things were sung into creation, maybe Tom is also one such being
@richardclark.
4 ай бұрын
I do not know where Tom came from but I know where he went. In the 4th age he became a rapper with the name Tom daBombadil.
@EmpressOfTears
4 ай бұрын
I adore this... I adore this so much.
@ryanmckeon1134
4 ай бұрын
Return of Rad!
@ColossusBall
4 ай бұрын
This is the best video about Goldberry/Tom ever done. For so many reasons.
@upschutt4842
4 ай бұрын
Well, she is wearing green, so she is definitely the green witch in Narnia ;)
@TheHoneyBadger-yh5vj
4 ай бұрын
May God bless you and your work young lady Next Gondor💙💙💙💙😇😇😇
@_creighton
4 ай бұрын
Your scholarship is so impressive... and more impressively, matched by your delightful presentation. Much respect! Thank you for sharing your insights.
@Enerdhil
4 ай бұрын
Yes. Professor Lexi always gives us a healthy dise of academic vocabulary.😁👍
@Thechezbailey
2 ай бұрын
Girl next Gondrordil. Girl GondorDILLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
@benjythatsme
4 ай бұрын
And my heart starts racing at the sight of a new GNG video. I'm prepared to be enlightened and slightly intimidated by levels of intelligence to which I can only aspire.
@jacobvardy
4 ай бұрын
Until Feanor turns up at my door in a van, i''ll just leave a comment like gentle rain, to ward off the Shadow of the Algorithm.
@napoleonfeanor
4 ай бұрын
Let's get the Silmarils back
@Enerdhil
4 ай бұрын
It's working.😁👍
@jacobvardy
4 ай бұрын
[abandons all other plans] @@napoleonfeanorRoad trip!
@NatsAstrea
4 ай бұрын
I've always thought it was interesting that Frodo's dream/vision of the undying lands came in the home of Tom and Goldberry, long before the hobbits got to Lothlorien and Galadriel.
@ravendelacour1917
4 ай бұрын
Your description of the nature of Tom and Goldberry evokes the classic Goddess/Consort partnership of earlier pagan divinity that Tolkien likely intentionally evoked. Masculine rational understanding of a principle balanced with the Feminine embodiment of a principle. The Masculine Consort tending to Feminine Principle of a place embodied with a living being. Their earlier poetic meeting could be seen as a Goddess or nature spirit testing Tom to see if he was appropriate for her consort both in good nature and possession of the power sufficient to survive the challenges the Old Forest possessed. A mythic form of courting.
@SH-tc7np
4 ай бұрын
My favorite scene Is Tuor meeting Ulmo
@Enerdhil
4 ай бұрын
That scene is epic in The Fall of Gondolin and The Silmarillion.
@ronniecorbett6306
4 ай бұрын
I think Tom is an accidental good created by Morgoth's part of the song. He can easily handle the ring because of this. Every good character in the story are affected by the ring negatively, Tom isn't. Goldberry is his compass that keeps him on the right path with her love she has for him and his love for her.
@AMScott91
4 ай бұрын
I've always wanted Goldberry to be the lost Nimrodel, sense be damned.
@konstantinriumin2657
4 ай бұрын
It's me. I am Goldberry.
@EriktheRed2023
4 ай бұрын
I thought you were Spartacus.
@jimsteele9559
4 ай бұрын
Omitting Tom Bombadil, Goldberry, the Barrow Downs, and Scouring of the Shire are all mistakes and bad choices. Should have kept to Tolkien as close as possible. They blew it.
@kathleenstoin671
4 ай бұрын
There is only a limited amount of time in a movie format to include everything in any given novel being adapted for the screen. I can live without Tom Bombadil and Goldberry when the rest of the story is portrayed so well. Jackson wanted to focus on the Ring and its journey with Frodo to its destruction. In this he succeeded amazingly well and in a very entertaining manner.
@astrogypsy
4 ай бұрын
Don' you crush my lilies! ('Cause lilies be my crush.) BTW, Terrific analysis as always.
@SH-tc7np
4 ай бұрын
Wow Again correct
@brandonluker3660
4 ай бұрын
Who is Goldberry? Why, she is the berry that is made from gold, of course! 💛🫐
@GirlNextGondor
4 ай бұрын
A merry yellow one, in fact
@thetweedcladenglishman
4 ай бұрын
“Who is Goldberry?” She is.
@SH-tc7np
4 ай бұрын
The land itself amidst it's beauty Outlasts us all; Yet itself can be tormented misshapen
@Enerdhil
4 ай бұрын
That seems like the influence of Morgoth's Ring.
@estherandreasen366
4 ай бұрын
Goldberry's association with seasons also reminds me of Vana with her flowers and spring thing. Could we be dealing with a duel associated Maia like Olorin or something?
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