I agree, 3rd-5th was a sort of Golden Age for 40k. As it is, every time I learn more about 10th edition, it just makes me angry. The rules are just insane. It's a game of Wargear requiring special command points just to pop smoke or throw a grenade, special rules that should be stratagems are treated as wargear, no-points for upgrades making a flamer cost as much as a Lascannon and encouraging "pile-it-on" list building, and all of this on smaller tables while often requiring more models than ever. Pure insanity.
@celtofkernow
2 ай бұрын
Just getting folks back having a blast with it at the mo. 1500pt games I remember being a big game, plays surprisingly quick compared to smaller games of 10th ed.
@Grymbaldknight
9 күн бұрын
I recently made an unrelated post online praising 4th Edition. As such, this video jumped out at me. The 4th Edition Rulebook is absolutely one of the best publications GW has ever put out. It was back when the company was big enough to have a real budget, but small enough to still have "soul". The book reflects this, being very much "by hobbyists, for hobbyists", but with a tremendous amount of polish. Although 4th was imperfect - lacking some of the strengths found in some other editions - I really think that it's when the hobby peaked. The tone and character of 40k had stabilised, and the rules were flavourful without being too complicated. As an aside, by far the best way to run 4th Edition is to allow the use of supplements from 3rd. Although many amazing books were printed during 4th, a lot of 3rd Edition Codicies and supplements had a lot of character which was lost towards the end of 4th. Running 3rd Edition extras on top of 4th Edition's rules is, in a lot of cases, the best of both worlds.
@celtofkernow
9 күн бұрын
@@Grymbaldknight all too true. At my club we indeed play with many of the 3rd ed codexes/supplements. My minds gone blank but I think Eye of Terror book with the Legion of the Damned and 13th company is a favourite.
@Grymbaldknight
9 күн бұрын
@@celtofkernow Eye of Terror is an amazing book, you're right. The 3.5 Chaos Codex is also far superior to the 4th Edition version of the book, which stripped out all of the flavour. The various Chapter Approved books from 3rd Edition are also worth revisiting. For instance, the Deathwatch supplement, the Vehicle Creation rules, and the Codex updates (along with a lot of the extra missions) make for amazing ways to spice up 4th Edition games. As I say, although 4th was very polished, some of the Codicies from 4th were a little stripped back. Using older supplements really preserves much of the flavour. Out of curiosity, which later rules (if any) do you port into the game when playing 4th?
@celtofkernow
8 күн бұрын
@@Grymbaldknight At the moment none. We're keeping it honest. We may add the run mechanic but nothing else is jumping out at me. What about yourself?
@SuperFaygoman
Жыл бұрын
I started getting back into 40k and realized just how much everything has change. I was young when I started on 4th and its simplicity made it very easy for me to comprehend at a young age. So far I'm likely 9th alot but I will agree that 4th will always hold a special place in my heart. I would love to go back and play 4th again some time. great video!
@CornishCrusade
2 жыл бұрын
Been having similar thoughts at the moment - dug out my old 4th ed books recently, currently assembling some army lists for combat patrol!
@celtofkernow
2 жыл бұрын
With the name Cornish Crusade, are you Cornwall based? If so so I know a small club in North Cornwall with at least one 4th player ;) .
@CornishCrusade
2 жыл бұрын
@@celtofkernow I am indeed, West Cornwall area! If I can find time to come up that way, it should be fun! Is that the club near Quethiock?
@celtofkernow
2 жыл бұрын
@@CornishCrusade nah way north, nr Bude. Dice and Dagger Gaming Club, should be able to find it on Fb.
@doghou5e
23 күн бұрын
I think that people forget other editions exist and that you don't have to tie yourself to GW's insane release schedule. You don't even need to tie yourself to one edition and older codex are way cheaper but I do agree that 4th is a very good one and probably my favorite after the massive sand box that is 1st edition Rogue Trader.
@lordceiver7697
2 жыл бұрын
Very good video. I sometimes watch an Age of Sigmar battle report and the worst I saw was just five terrorgeists vs five bloodthirsters, nothing like the game (fantasy) I enjoyed. Anyway I'm looking forward to your 40k battle reports.
@celtofkernow
2 жыл бұрын
Many thanks.
@meanderingshade
Жыл бұрын
Just came across this video, I haven't played in quite some time, but I was just sat mulling over my own thoughts on 40k after I had been looking through my old collection recently too. I think I agree with you for the most part, at least in a grand overview of the system/s. I started around the beginning of 2nd ed and for that reason it holds a special place. I still love it and would lean in favour of it if I ever wanted to run a very small and very detailed skirmish game of 40k. It's still a lot of fun, but it is a very distinct style and feel of game and I think it suffered at higher points levels. But I did really enjoy playing larger games throughout 3rd and 4th editions. I've said to friends often that 4th edition really reads in my head as 3.5 as it is really 3rd with a bunch of the add-on/experimental rules included and polished to a nice finish. I really did prefer the aesthetic and feel of play of 3rd though and the 3.0/3.5 codices. As in I just love to get out the 3rd edition core book to pore through once in a while, I feel it just captures the 40k grim-dark for me a bit more than 4th... 3rd edition also had some really fun rules add-ons/experiments throughout its lifespan. The vehicle design rules were fun and I think scaled well up to city-fight and apocalypse sized games. Kind of makes it a little simpler to retro-engineer modern releases back into older editions too. In my own personal opinion everything after the release of the 4th edition rulebook felt like the real rise of noticeable power creep and huge dull shooting and slogging games. So I wouldn't presume to say best or perfect, but for me I think I would have to say that my "ideal" game or ruleset of 40k, if I wasn't just going to just use all the 3rd edition plus all it's extra rules released in all the chapter approved books etc. Then I would say it would be using the 4th edition core book, with the 3.0/3.5 codices. I believe the codices were great and the 4th edition rulebook is just a cleaned up and concise version of what came from 3rd. Yeah that'd be it... 3.5 edition :D my ideal 40k is somewhere in there using the 3rd and 4th edition core books as book-ends. :D Thanks for an interesting and thought provoking video, Take care ;)
@celtofkernow
Жыл бұрын
Awesome. Agree with what you saying!
@DioBrando-jm7uf
Жыл бұрын
I really like the 6th Edition Imperial Armour books and the 7th Edition formations (for thematic army building rather than power). I like looking through the older books, though. I like how infantry had durability because there wasn’t so many high-powered units. A Heavy Bolter and a Storm Bolter in a Tactical Squad being considered “high rate of fire”.
@HotDiceMiniatures
2 жыл бұрын
Man the nostalgia this video brought me back to is just intense! Great video buddy. Loved every minute.
@celtofkernow
2 жыл бұрын
... nostalgia bait..... ;) . Hopefully soon to follow with some actual battle reports! Cheers.
@ja37d-34
Жыл бұрын
Never understood that bullshit with wounds on vehicles in later editions..
@bremer1701
Ай бұрын
probably the only way to make vehicles more durable.
@Lordvader1212
2 жыл бұрын
4th edition was great. Haven’t played 40k in years. The new version seems to have really small battlefields and no manoeuvring or tactics. Basically it is rolling dice and coin tossing a game.
@celtofkernow
2 жыл бұрын
Thats what i have seen of it too...
@chrisjones6792
15 күн бұрын
Tomorrow I'm playing my first game of 4th since I was a kid!
@celtofkernow
15 күн бұрын
@@chrisjones6792 good luck and have fun. What army you taking?
@stevenkennedy4130
10 ай бұрын
WFB 6th. W40K 5th. Thanks for the share!!
@ScooterinAB
3 ай бұрын
What drives me crazy in modern editions is the page of rules per unit. Not that there is a page of rules that you need, but that entire units differ only by one stat on the gun they have. You have a page of rules that's almost identical to another unit, but has one thing different. Of you have units that all just have the same one wepon, then have a unit that is exactly the same but with a different weapon.
@adamfox1669
Жыл бұрын
Great video. I feel the same & still have my old 4th ed. set. Mainly Heresy right now but we are tweaking the rules to be more like 4th.
@celtofkernow
Жыл бұрын
Cheers. I have to say Heresy gave me one thing I really liked... updated version of the old designed SM vehicles. :D
@Sybok51288
2 жыл бұрын
4th with 3rd books!
@Potacintvervs
2 жыл бұрын
Chaos marines 3.5 best codex
@celtofkernow
2 жыл бұрын
Hopefully will be up against that book shortly, as a player wasn't up for the duller 4th ed one. Plus he'll probably be using Legion of the Damned.
@andrewpackham8236
5 ай бұрын
These giant hardback rulebooks all seem to be designed as tomes full of interesting things to pore over, try out, get inspired by, and gradually learn. Which for me is why it's such a shame that GW is so quick to scrap an older edition for a new rulebook with not a whole lot different. It seems like such a waste having to buy a new 300 page bible every few years, when these rulebooks could last a generation if they took the time to playtest and perfect before churning out a new book for the sake of it.
@ImperialDiecast
2 ай бұрын
5 years, preferably 6, between edition would have been great. but 6th edition lasted for 1.5 years it was hilarious.
@EliWintercross
6 ай бұрын
I started playing 10th this year after quitting 40k many years ago. While the game is ok and I am having fun playing with friends, I find some of the changes so damn weird and annoying. Vehicles have wounds? Cover no longer gives saves but improves saves and twin linked is re-roll to wound? Wtf? 4th edition is definitely imo the best version of the rules, I still have my 4th edition rulebook and codices. Might see if I can get my son interested in playing some 4th.
@Gridash
5 ай бұрын
Really enjoyed your video, and made me want to try out 4th Edition.
@celtofkernow
5 ай бұрын
Go for it.
@RavenShinyThings
Жыл бұрын
Agreed, codex mess in 4th but rules were good. Just needed dice in the bag with a faction bonus for first activation role of each turn.
@ImperialDiecast
2 ай бұрын
i liked 5th edition because it was basically 4th edition but with run moves and true line of sight and (i believe) also wound allocation. run moves made reliance on transports for assault oriented armies less mandatory, and tlos / wound allocation meant you couldnt keep removing your bolter guys until the last 2 men in the squad were the heavy weapons and the special weapons guy, firing away till turn 5 or something. experiencing the loss of upgrades earlier than you had hoped made NOT taking them worth considering rather than an auto include.
@celtofkernow
2 ай бұрын
@@ImperialDiecast I liked run, but I didn't like tlos. For me the area terrain rules and size levels were favourite as it allowed thematic tables without worrying about if I could see through windows to fire my battle cannon, from one side of the table to the other through windows. I may be playing it wrong, but in 4th special weapons can be taken out, if you cause as many hits as models in target unit hits are divided between them.
@Tehstampede
4 ай бұрын
I started playing in 3rd edition but had by far the most fun with 4th edition overall. Now as an adult I have the disposable income needed to be able to pick up any units I want or need, but I don't have nearly as much fun playing the game now. I don't really like true line of sight in a miniature wargame because of how it encourages people to game the system and discourages them from getting creative with model conversions. The Area Terrain rules went a long way to mitigating this and were much healthier for the game IMHO; I also like how the 4th edition rulebook stated that just being able to see a wing, banner, or tip of a gun did NOT mean you could see the enemy model, and that you had to actually see the model's body in order to have line of sight to it. In the modern editions, if the very tip of a a model's left arm can see the top atom of a tank's antenna, then you have line of sight...this is terrible and not fun to play at all.
@thecappeningchannel515
4 ай бұрын
Agreed. First time I had my vostroyans shot due to their tall hats poking up over a hill, I just gave up on 40k
@EliWintercross
3 ай бұрын
This stuff makes it near impossible to keep a wave serpent out of los, because the Eldar Grav tank hull is already quite wide and then you have the wave serpent shield parts that stick out further
@thecappeningchannel515
3 ай бұрын
@@EliWintercross yeah. But a Wave Serpent has solid protection already. And can stay out of range. 3rd is less lethal than 10th. No need go stay out of los.
@ThroatSore
2 жыл бұрын
3rd for me, though the armour rules were a bit odd. It's never really been a balanced system though as far as I could tell. The rules bloat and unbalanced beardyness is at a current zenith.
@celtofkernow
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, it was close... I still have most 3rd books, but 4th being a better book won out. Though it was 3rds, battle for armageddon, that got me collecting Salamanders chapter..... and steel legion.
@davidmiddleton7958
6 ай бұрын
Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, 4th Ed was the culmination of everything learned from 3rd Ed. Though lossing the ability to assault after exiting a vehicle was a blow. For myself, I came onto the scene near the end of 2nd Ed. The 3rd Ed allowed you to field an army! The Codexes were slimmer & cheaper!
@ImperialDiecast
2 ай бұрын
3rd ed codexes had so little background in them that you wondered how people knew so much about a faction and had to look it up online. when 4th and 5th edition codexes were released, the fluff section was back and about 20 pages on average which gave a proper history and organization to each faction and also told you a lot about every unit.
@oitoitoi1
Жыл бұрын
For me 3.5 was the best and most complete edition (3rd with all the faq's and Cityfight), 4th was nice too though. The current edition just seems painfully awful. Would love to find a regular gaming community for 3rd ed 40k and 6th ed WFB. I totally agree regarding line of sight, was a big problem in fantasy too with cannons in 8th edition. Agree regarding scratch building terrain too, one of my favourite parts of the hobby that GW have pretty much completely removed from their games. Makes the game even less accessible for kids too.
@celtofkernow
Жыл бұрын
3.5 and 4th was a hard call. But the new rulebook for me gave it an edge... saved carrying so many rules on paper around.
@Flamethrower1942
4 ай бұрын
4th was my favourite too , i liked 2nd but at the time I was too young to really understand it .
@celtofkernow
4 ай бұрын
Good to hear the 4th support. Never tried 2nd, as I came into the hobby just before 3rd dropped. Though I did enjoy Gorkamorka, which I believe was 2nd based.
@Flamethrower1942
4 ай бұрын
@@celtofkernowYeah that’s was a blast of a game .
@ergofargo
2 жыл бұрын
Find the Warhammer 40k 4th edition Facebook group for community support.
@HotDiceMiniatures
2 жыл бұрын
He mentions this group in the video. Just sayin.
@celtofkernow
2 жыл бұрын
:D Nowt wrong with an extra plug.
@antigrav6004
11 ай бұрын
Love 4th. Its what i started with
@christianvandenboorn6001
2 жыл бұрын
I realy like the smaler scale of 40k 4th edition. And it had realy fine terrein rules, were it was doeble to have line of sight bloking terrein without needing realy big pieces. So you need to be mobile, to see youre enamy. One flaw was in 4th, you could consolidate in a next unit after combat. This was a flaw were some armies could make to mutch use of. And what i realy found a good addition to the game were the missions out of 6 and 7th edition. But i give you right, that 4th was one of the best editions. It was realy fun to build more smal armies to paint other colours.
@celtofkernow
2 жыл бұрын
Nicely said!
@christianvandenboorn6001
2 жыл бұрын
@@celtofkernow ï startet playing with 3th, and quit after 7th. Because 8th was a other game. I would say every edition got a little bit better. With the exception of line of sight. I realy like the rules from 4th with the leven of terrein, and the sight you have true terrein. This rule made indirect fire, and mobiliteit usefull. With that i dont like snapshots. I like it in a game were you need to take decisians. With that i would love 40k with rules from 5th, sight of 4th, missions from 7th with books from 3th ore 4th. Sadly that to 6th and after that the scale goes up. Balance goes down. And buying books got prioriti
@celtofkernow
2 жыл бұрын
@@christianvandenboorn6001 heartily agree. I didnt make it to sixth as I was running out of steam on buying books and I think fine cast stopped me buying a lot by then. But least now picking up older codexes are relatively cheap, and makes for a fun game. For example: I brought the necromunda box set when it was re-released, loved the look of the models (even though they were massive) but by the time I got to working on them there seemed to be 9 extra books and I had no idea what I actually needed. In the end I shelved them, wasnt much in a mood to spend a couple of hundred quid of various expansion books. From what was looking to be a small investment, the game went it bonkers.... I have the web version, that'll do.
@ScooterinAB
3 ай бұрын
What's funny is that the army scale is going backwards. In 2nd edition, you'd have maybe 3 units. 3rd Globetrottered that up, and it just kept spiraling out of control with each edition. Sure, big games can be fun, but when the cost of everything has tripled and you absolutely, 100% needed a $300 model on the table to even try to play, people couldn't participate anymore. Now 10th is trying to pull things back towards that few units of play, but it's done so in a rather peculiar way.
@happytreefrog1264
2 жыл бұрын
The Games Workshop has certainly changed. They have completely abandoned their Grim Dark origins for the sake inclusivity (monetization), prices are through the roof, and the Space Marines have been rehashed as "Primaris" - which is absolutely ridiculous.
@ObjectiveMedia
Жыл бұрын
What do you mean by “inclusivity”?
@happytreefrog1264
Жыл бұрын
@@ObjectiveMedia - Wanting to get literally EVERYONE on board. I started this hobby back in 2004, and it was quite a niche thing back then but it was better. More love and passion went into it. Now it's become mainstream, and the result is monetization. Essentially, they're trying to appease the masses. "They" being the Games Workshop. It's quite sad.
@chasethedane9784
2 жыл бұрын
Do people still play these old editions? I would love to have some games
@celtofkernow
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah for sure, but finding them is always a challenge. I would check Facebook groups such as Middlehammer or Warhammer 40k 4th Edition. Warhammer fantasy 6th edition has had a very strong revival, be good to see the same with old (ish) 40k.
@ObjectiveMedia
Жыл бұрын
The older 40k rulesets are vastly superior to the more recent editions. They totally ruined the game with 8th Ed imo.
@celtofkernow
Жыл бұрын
I stopped when 6th came out, you made further than me!
@celtofkernow
Жыл бұрын
I stopped when 6th came out, you made further than me!
@ObjectiveMedia
Жыл бұрын
@@celtofkernow no I actually stopped around 3rd because I naturally gravitated away from the game (nothing to do with rules etc) but since coming back into the hobby a few years ago I’ve been appalled at the 40k bat reps I’ve been watching.
@johncalabro8710
Жыл бұрын
What are your thoughts on 5th edition? I feel the 4th had the best army codexs but 5th the better rules.
@celtofkernow
Жыл бұрын
I think there was a lot good in 5th rules. I did a few tournaments with those rules, but definitely felt the creep in codexes. Also was never a fan of the true line of sight. I think area terrain and size height was done better in 4th, it gave blocking terrain without the need for massive solid walls.
@johncalabro8710
Жыл бұрын
@@celtofkernow I agree with the true line of sight not being as quick and more annoying than 4th. I will say the rendering weapons (from rolls of 6 hit causing no armour save into making rolls of 6 in wounding) and vehicle damage roll were better in 5th no glancing hits making the vehicle destroy. Also deep strike and running I enjoy.
@rrwholloway
Жыл бұрын
2nd edition is still the most fun.
@boom_raccon2591
Жыл бұрын
Does 5th Edition used the same codexes as 4th? The only thing that changed was that the figures weren’t Metall anymore? I think
@celtofkernow
Жыл бұрын
5th edition definitely got new codexes. Pretty sure: guard, space marine, dark elder, tau, nids and maybe necrons.
@celtofkernow
Жыл бұрын
Oh and some newer ones like grey knights
@boom_raccon2591
Жыл бұрын
@@celtofkernow but did they look different?
@ImperialDiecast
2 ай бұрын
@@boom_raccon2591a little bit. they were also softcover and black and white, but each unit entry had a background story to it and artwork instead of an outline.
@KoW4LsKy
Жыл бұрын
Let me add that there are no overpowered units like from 5th edition onwards, when every new release was OP, and ditched every fluffy aspect of pervious codex.
@celtofkernow
Жыл бұрын
Very true!
@johncalabro8710
Жыл бұрын
Celtofernow thank you for the video. Can I ask in the future you can do a battle of 4th edition?
@celtofkernow
Жыл бұрын
Most definitely, I am painting my second edition necrons and catachan. Once painted they will be out for battles.
@jedschubser1
26 күн бұрын
2nd Edition is the Best! Oh, perhaps I should watch the video first... brb
@happytreefrog1264
2 жыл бұрын
21:57 - Yeah, it's gone because they want to sell you terrain now. Disgraceful. You should check out a KZitem channel called Commissar Gamza. He literally rips Games Workshop apart, and he's quite funny.
@celtofkernow
2 жыл бұрын
I have come across Gamza... interesting vids :D. Though seems to be into the 3d printing thing.
@truth44_
6 ай бұрын
More about 4th edition man 🙏🏻
@Rob94hawk
2 ай бұрын
Get a hold of the 2nd edition weapons codex. Every weapon unique. Entertaining. Blast templates. Everything from D6 to D20 damage & wound rolls. Now everything is a D6 roll. Boring.
@ja37d-34
Жыл бұрын
I agree... Started in 2nd Ed, loved it, for what it was, and had a hard time switching to 3rd Ed. But I did.. Then 4th Ed improved on the most stupid things 8close combat some vehicle rules for example) and my favs had an army book again (Space Wolves but i also played Orks). Streamlined and on a decent scale, not too much bullshit. I enjoyed the 4th Ed. After that? And these days? Not so much.
Пікірлер: 92