Think of every movie you had to sit through that had a ten minute exposition dump or hand-holding internal dialogues. Boring right? Now compare it to media that just let you wade to the deep end at your own pace and immerse yourself. You don't need the script with by-lines to enjoy the magic
@technomage6736
Жыл бұрын
You're comparing apples to oranges, as well as discounting the happy medium most of us seek. We simply don't get that happy medium with Souls games, rather we get the opposite extreme of hand holding.
@colbyroland6776
Жыл бұрын
@@technomage6736 it’s ok to seek a middle ground but don’t seek it at fromsoft. I prefer the extreme.
@decker5758
Жыл бұрын
Well I mean there's lord of the rings...
@GrayCatbird1
Жыл бұрын
At the same time, there is genuine enjoyment in something that tells the full story. It’s literally what Souls lore channels are doing, and their success shows the interest for that approach. There isn’t one way to do something good.
@LokiHades
Жыл бұрын
@@GrayCatbird1 and that’s fine. It gives those people the drive to do that and give their interpretations. It wouldn’t be half as compelling without the intrigue and the amount of speculation needed, and is much more akin to real history in that accounts are never perfect and will always contain bias coloured by their points of view.
@LoreHunter
Жыл бұрын
Let's tell some stories from our first playthroughs. It can be a memorable encounter, a fun story or lore theory you held, etc. Mine is a bit of a common one, with a bit of a twist. I avoided spoilers going into the final months of Elden Ring with an iron fist. Leaks happened, I avoided it all. Except for one bit of information: Melina was behind the Night of Black Knives and she turns on you. As much as I wanted to erase this knowledge from my head, I couldn't help but side eye Melina the whole time, knowing that she would betray. But over the hours I came to realize that this information was mistaken, that someone had confused Melina for Ranni, and I felt terrible that I'd been so dubious of her. So when I learned what her role was in the story, I couldn't do it. I had to find a way to save her. And that's when I stumbled across Shabriri. He gave me what I wanted, salvation for someone who I had wrongly judged. Despite Melina's warnings, I proceeded down the route of the Lord of Frenzied Flame, ready to sacrifice myself and spare her. Well, you know what happens from here. As the final scene of the game played out before me, I felt the twist of the knife of fate that had ironically turned Melina into the person I feared she was. It was a brutal moment. It was wonderful.
@TheBrokenOrder1
Жыл бұрын
After I finnished the game I was puzzled with the Radagon/Marika situation. I kinda knew that they could transform into each other, but it wasn't until I returned to the first trailer that I really understood what it all meant that Radagon tried to fix the Elden Ring with the same hammer that Marika used to destroy it. I felt a shiver down my spine when it all came together.
@Writh811
Жыл бұрын
I had finished the Morne questline and was really bummed about Irina. I took my anger out on Godrick and as I passed through the Keep I saw a weird ghost talking about his grapes. When I came out the other side I was very confused. She sounded and looked like Irina but she said her name was Hyetta. She wanted the item I had gotten from the ghost so without looking at the item description I figured, "have at it." She wanted more so I figured I'd keep an eye out. It bugged me how much she looked like Irina, so I went back to the Weeping Pennisula. Maybe I missed some step in her quest or something, I thought because sure enough Irina was gone. I was getting a bit confused especially because while resuming my exploration of Liurnia I was attacked my "Friend" Edgar who also gave me a grape. It was at this point I read the description. I would have stopped but I figured, nothing happens if I do that, so I wanted to see where this went. I found the Eye of Sauron and just had to explore that spot, which lead me to a plum. But she didn't want that... yet. After stumbling into grapes she eventually upgraded her tastes. Later I would get lost in the Shunning Grounds under Leyndell after killing Morgott. After giving the least graceful descent to the bottom things started to get tense between the women in my life. I felt like I owed Irina, my actioned caused her to get amnesia or something and I killed her dad (as far as I knew). Melina was not happy but fortunately I retained custody of Torrent. I remember hearing you can get married in this game so I assumed I was "marrying" Irina in some ritual that had me strip naked. The least I could do for messing up her life. Then things got handsy and hot and next thing I know I came out talked to Irina and then rested and she had burned to dust.... I was already dex/faith, so I just went from Lightning focused to fire and Frenzied Flame focused. I felt so bad about everything that happened with Irina. She noted the suffering in the world and I had seen the corpses piled high in some pretty defiled places. The world had soured to its core that it victimized the meek and blind. It was overrun with prejudices of all kinds and I myself was not spared them as a tarnished. Such a cruel world should burn, I thought. The game was showing me how little it valued its own life. I knew I could not be deterred, so of course it was up to me to bring it to its end. I never met Shabriri as we already walked the same path. But I would later get context as to why Yura's clothes were just laying up on the mountain, even though he died in Altus.
@callsignburka7446
Жыл бұрын
Millicent is Michaela Reborn in his sister's form with her accursed Scarlett rot upon being reborn their memories of being the god they once were are erased no longer are they blonde like their mother they now bare their father's red hair just like his other siblings, Radahn and Melania. She weeps because she faintly recalls she had a task of curing the Scarlet that's so afflicts her beloved sister, she is missing her arm just like her sister she is found in her mother's Church the only thing that can even help is the unalloid Golden Needle made for his sister Melania (Lots of interchanging "He's" and "She's" in reference to only one being but that's kind of common in this story, apologies if it makes it unreadable or confusing)
@MrNarxy
Жыл бұрын
when i started i wanted to avoid the story as much as possible so i got lost and explored just to have fun on the nearby beach or in random caves it took a friend of mine 2 days to realize why i was moving so slow and randomly to teach me to at LEAST get to melania, the horse, and leveling in general.
@highbrednxtus
Жыл бұрын
Stumbling across Godwyn at the bottom of Stormveil and wondering what the fuck I had just stumbled across. Figured it was a god and made me think of the second half of Bloodborne. The roots on his body looked very Cthulhu
@a5hen
Жыл бұрын
That's the thing. The fact that there is no proper answer means you get to figure out your own views, which also lets you discuss with other people, hence learning something new. It keeps the community engaged with the lore.
@caseycoker1051
Жыл бұрын
I've always thought that they aren't trying to tell you a story throughout your play through as much as they are making a world where a story is happening and you get to experience it throughout the play through. They want you to feel like the story would be happening whether you were there or not. It would make sense that someone who wandered into these events would only gather bits and pieces of what is happening around them. Your character's understanding of the world and it's events are just as limited as yours are.
@justinchalifoux4424
Жыл бұрын
I’d like you to like my comment so that I can screen shot this comment right here to help with my fantasy story. Absolutely wonderful, mate!
@whirlwind872
Жыл бұрын
@@justinchalifoux4424 novice mistake. if you ask for something on the internet, you will get the opposite. A lot of people have seen your comment and deliberately chose NOT to like it, precisely because you're asking for likes. Never ask for likes, its literally never a good idea.
@Nidhogg
Жыл бұрын
Wonderfully said. For all the lore excavation we can do (and it's great fun, don't get me wrong), the most important relationship you can have with these games is on an emotional/experiential level. We miss the forest for the trees sometimes.
@TheSkyfolk
Жыл бұрын
This is why I stay away from widely accepted interpretations of the souls game stories util after I've become satisfied with my own understanding and interpretations of the games. I have discussions with other people also theorizing but in general it's best to enjoy the games' lore and story on a personal level before letting other people convince you of things. I'm glad you've made this video, I hope it encourages people to engage more readily with the games on their own terms.
@kimlee6643
Жыл бұрын
This reminds me of the dichotomy between a person who explains why a painting is so complex and nuanced and in need of study versus someone who noticed it somewhere and since then it has become their favorite desktop wallpaper. They don't talk about it at all, but they keep it close to themselves and revisit it in the privacy of their own minds. As for a little ER story... I spent dozens of hours afraid of "killing" Rya in order to soak Varré's little terrifying white cloth. To me, fueled by the experience of past Souls, Varré represented the "evil" path through the game, and murdering Rya, a suspiciously close potential victim, would fundamentally alter my feelings towards this first play-through, and thus towards the whole game. Wanting to invade, I was torn over making this decision and facing its extreme implications. Hyetta exacerbated it further. Well, we all know it was otherwise.
@SmoughTown
Жыл бұрын
Well said my brother - and it all culminates in you repairing the world as you see fit...or burn it down. What do YOU think is right?
@LoreHunter
Жыл бұрын
I always burn it heh heh heh
@Dexerinos
Жыл бұрын
Very nicely explained, I really liked the comparison to David Lynch. I have no idea where I found it first, but at one point I read/heard that watching a Lynch movie is like going thru a curated gallery (of some artworks) ... everyone will have a different experience after and that is A-OK :)
@Knicksin7
Жыл бұрын
Good essay homie. Keep it up. Beautiful merge with film theory.
@DreamskyDance
Жыл бұрын
I mean, yes... This is exactly my interpretation of the story and lore of Elden Ring. Completely agree and am commenting more for the algorithm than needing to say more on what you said :D Ok..i would just add that i love various mythologies and have read and researched a lot on some more obscure mythologies and stories from around the world, and Elden Ring is the first game i ever played where i had that same feeling i had when researching a obscure deity from long forgotten people. But even more because the nature of the game is that you participate in it. Personally i would coin a phrase to call Elden Ring an Interactive Mythology RPG...
@Cha05typhoon
Жыл бұрын
Beautifully explained! This is something that I've never actively considered but certainly experienced and loved. Interested to see how/if my experience changes with this actively in mind on future playthrus
@jacobstaffordmiller1635
Жыл бұрын
oooo I can hear the subreddit seething already... Great vid! I feel like one of the moments that really opened my eyes to this game was when I heard beautiful singing in the weeping peninsula, I was sure it was a glitch but I followed it anyways and... BAM! ganked by bats. No glitch, I was just stunned that I actually fell victim to a Siren and it happened so naturally.
@tewrecks6410
Жыл бұрын
Yes! I feel very excited when you post one of those.
@eldenring_area
Жыл бұрын
Well done... 👍
@ahbooza
Жыл бұрын
This way of storytelling allows for maximum role playing. You are your Tarnished and you choose how you complete your quest and understand the story. It’s very tabletop-rpg like, another one of Miyazaki’s favourites.
@Frozenkex
Жыл бұрын
No it doesnt. Its nothing like an actual RPG - be it elder scrolls, dragon age or witcher. You dont know anything about your character or motivations and you arent offered much, none of the characters in the world develop or are fleshed out and the way you are "understanding" the story isnt immersive at all. How are item descriptions communicated to you? It comes from a narrator, not a fictional writer like in Elder Scrolls book. Your character almost never has any option to say anything you have to "interact" with npcs, what is that? How are you interacting? All npcs are reliant on player to talk to them, and multiple times in a non intuitive way. So many things about quests are frustrating to the point that most will just look it up on a wiki - not great role playing. The game has no other options besides just murder everyone and everything...
@ahbooza
Жыл бұрын
@@Frozenkex what is an “actual” rpg? As long as the player is able to insert themselves into their character, it’s role-play. And yes, the “story” seems predetermined with the NPCs and narrator, but this is something Miyazaki has been saying for years. He wants to evoke his own experience of reading western fantasy books he barely understood. He’d often fill in the blanks of his understanding with his own version of stories, and as he learnt the language more, his understanding of the stories also became better. It’s storytelling through experience. People who found the secrets hiding the stories of his games did so by reliving their experiences over and over again. I think it’s unique and multilayered, and definitely has more than enough rpg elements in it. Only Sekiro doesn’t follow this formula, and in my headcannon it’s just Miyazaki telling everyone they can absolutely do more contemporary narrative styles if they choose to.
@Frozenkex
Жыл бұрын
@@ahbooza None of the "secrets" are all that secret, they only feel special to you because theyre obscured. If none of it was obscured it would be clearer to you that it's not that deep and that there isnt all that much to find in the first place. I'd argue Elder Scrolls has more secrets in addition to player choice and agency, as well as simple stories to follow and characters you can interact with more organically. If most of your players are left scratching their heads, if they need to look stuff up while playing the game, your storytelling has failed. If you think it is all awesome because you enjoyed Vaatividya videos - well then the storytelling isnt in the game and its all really thanks to vaati. Most people arent gonna replay the game multiple times, should you make significant part of the game accessible only to the few who will? That's ridiculous.
@ahbooza
Жыл бұрын
@@Frozenkex the fact that you’re commenting on an Elden Ring channel proves that a lot of people share a love for this style, and you disliking it is entirely your own opinion (which is okay), and you indeed share it with others out there, but again that’s not the point. Miyazaki’s intention is for the players to create and believe their own stories based on what they found in their game. He’s stated multiple times the “real” story shouldn’t matter, because in the end the individual players decide what it is. We’re too caught up in the concrete that we forget that this is, after all, a video game, and the player is given agency to make of it what they feel like based on what the devs provide. Everyone has a different Elden Ring story, and we share them, compare notes, and come to agreements and disagreements. In the end, no matter what Vaati or any other lore channels say, if I believe Godfrey is a simp who wants to steal my Tarnished’s glory by entering the Erdtree after I worked hard to burn it in hopes of getting Marika’s blessing again, then that’s the story to me and no one can tell me otherwise. In essence, you’re right, there isn’t much storytelling in Elden Ring, but the “story” is designed to give players the freedom to insert their own versions of it. It’s definitely unconventional, but that definitely doesn’t mean it’s bad or a failure.
@ghostgate82
Жыл бұрын
Opening with the David Lynch quote is perfection.
@NeedsContent
Жыл бұрын
Excellent work! This is a perfect encapsulation of what makes Souls games so provocative. Thank you for sharing.
@littlechurchlore
Жыл бұрын
Loved this :) I relate to the story telling technique, I find it exciting and compelling.
@KosOrSomeSayKosmo
Жыл бұрын
I think the David Lynch opening quote is very spot on as I think both he and Miyazaki like to play with, revisit, and emphasize moods and atmospheres with a narrative style that shows more than tells.
@excaligaming2435
Жыл бұрын
Wonderful video. I had the same experience, friends who never played a fromsoft game, but heard so often about the convoluted story(telling) and lore. They did go into the game trying to see a secret in every bit,waiting for the big epiphany and hanging themselves up in rather meaningless details and in the same process, losing the sight on the things that actually unfold before them bluntly, sadly.
@battlericky17
Жыл бұрын
I love this video. Some dude on insta said elden ring has 0 story, and i was like well somebody didnt read any items or even try to play the game
@HalcyonEX
Жыл бұрын
Miyazaki is a masterclass in storytelling
@billyshakespeare1696
Жыл бұрын
I think you’re missing the fact that a big part of the experience IS using our imagination to creatively link these puzzle pieces together. Trying to figure out the puzzle is a huge part of what makes these games epic experiences. I would argue that’s a major part of the experience, sifting through the mystery & intrigue and not just taking everything at face value.
@LoreHunter
Жыл бұрын
I totally agree! Perhaps I didn't state that clearly enough, but the creativity totally runs through the process of solving it all the way to the conclusion you reach. You are the glue that puts it all together and makes it complete.
@felixgauer2447
Жыл бұрын
Also: Figuring out the Lore is also a gratifying experience on its own that can be enjoyed.
@LoreHunter
Жыл бұрын
Hell yeah. When I say "experience" the game, I'm cheating a bit because I consider the hours spent out of the game exploring the world as part of that experience. The stickiness of From's stories in my head are a huge part of the appeal.
@IncandescentWriter
Жыл бұрын
0:50 And that's why I started playing these games. Elden Ring was my first to explore when it was untouched and untheorized. I'll have to wait for more like this. :)
@maltajade9058
Жыл бұрын
I love this truth and message. I remember reading my mother's Dean Koontz novels or picking out the dustiest and most frayed hardbacks like We Speak No Treason by Jarman and nd not fully getting it all but loving and devouring it nonetheless. Reading The Wolf of Winter in 6th grade and then reading it again at 18 then again in my late twenties was an incredible experience 😂 Those stories, fully understood or not, stuck with me. And definitely fed and drove my creativity. I hope more people dive into the unknown and relax in that embrace. It's confusing, scary or frustrating, but well worth it when you finally let go to enjoy and dream and imagine for yourself where yhe stories lie. I mean, we all got that from Ranni's ending, anyway, right? 😉
@LoreHunter
Жыл бұрын
I had a similar experience reading The Three Musketeers in 4th grade. I hardly understood any of it, and yet I remember the details that I did pick up on to this day, and often with more clarity than anything else I read around that time.
@eveocate
Жыл бұрын
I really admire the way this captures the experience of Elden Ring and its collaborative, personal, and semi-emergent story. I imagine I'll definitely be referring people to this video because I see it as expressing things so succinctly. For a start, I can tend to get lost in giddy rambles if I try to explain (like this, sorry to anyone that reads!)! For me, Elden Ring is the closest experience I've had to exploring expansive folklore. I admire FromSoft's ability to replicate that in this medium, especially without the benefit of the forces (e.g. centuries) that lead to creation, morphing, loss, etc. I'm happy to know that there are so, so many other fans sharing in the same joys and wonder. It feels so heartwarming and vibrant! In terms of personal stories, I really cherished the experience of taking a week off with my partner for release. We avoided anything online so we could each tottle around the world with a pencil and journal, building our unique versions of ER. Whether making a note of NPC lines, flower types, colour associations, architectural styles, item placement, questions, ideas, or staring at a relief through our telescopes, it felt so, so joyfully curious. We each found and thought different things because we simply went in different directions and have different play-styles. For me, I see all of those experiences and our iterative speculation as our story. We created, refined, combined, or discarded ideas as we discovered more of the world but I feel it all added to the sense of a meaningful journey, and it's a journey that's still ongoing. Personally, I value possibilities and feel energised by the way people weave their version of FromSoft worlds. I value their experience and the way their writing and speaking reveals their unique mind. It's why I enjoy this channel so, so much. I never really want "an answer" because I tend to see categorical phrasing and framing as a little arrogant and stifling. In my mind, it's always been a bit difficult to reconcile forceful claims and defensive consensus about The Story(tm) with Miyazaki's interview responses on the subject. Thank you again for the video!
@diandrea4
Жыл бұрын
Thx LH, great reminder to be like water.
@Graff-z4x
Жыл бұрын
This this this 👍🔥 just scored a ps5 2 days ago and Returnal was my first experience so this resonates big time!
@hiroshima19
Жыл бұрын
When I saw the tree sentinel for the first time, I said nope, and walked down to the beach to play with the land octopi
@mr_peach7704
Жыл бұрын
Think I’m going to have to look into Returnal. And rewatch Twin Peaks. Very well done, my man.
@lefthandcigg4253
Жыл бұрын
Twin peaks was a dope show. I still watch it every now and then on rainy days just for the vibe
@milkenobi
Жыл бұрын
I played through Elden Ring and became obsessed with the lore. My fiancé players through it as well and I just asked her what she remembers about the story or world and she said “not a clue” And that’s okay. We both enjoyed every inch of that game.
@viralengine908
Жыл бұрын
Bold yet thoughtful rebuke of some of the criticisms of the last week
@neilsanders2341
Жыл бұрын
That’s how I’ve always taken their stories, walking through them in the shoes of the protagonist and reckoning with the world through the experience. The first Dark Souls was the quintessential experience of this for me, beginning the game as a nobody, coming to grips gradually with the mechanics then being told I’m the chosen undead but not really believing it. I was convinced that Sens Fortress was the end stage of the game and there would be a cool cutscene at the end to give me an epilogue then get thrown into Anor Londo was insane, for me as the player and character.
@bplus2625
Жыл бұрын
I appreciate this video more than most other lore based videos. I can't tell you how many times I've shared strange perceptions and takeaways that I've had in comments just to have a bunch of replies from people who think they have it all figured out and feel the necessity to prove to me I'm wrong. I'm just sharing my thoughts from my experience and my imagination and there's nothing wrong with that.
@sunniedunbar6889
Жыл бұрын
Returnal gave me goosebumps. I felt actual dread.
@giovanniprovost
Жыл бұрын
112 hours in, rune level 116 and I haven't finished Leyndell access to The Snowfields. I don't mind... the journey is the key to enjoyment.
@ctiradctirada2775
Жыл бұрын
"the story of Elden Ring is not an equation to be solved, you dingus"... meanwhile Goldmask, the dingus stretching his arms...
@MrBoBoBo
Жыл бұрын
Officially goated in this community for quoting Lynch
@ronthorn3
Жыл бұрын
I was absolutely bored when I first watched season 3 of twin peaks, I put it down. Picked it back up with a newly opened mind years later and wow, season 3 became my favorite, I just needed to mature some more within my life before I could appreciate it. Min like my experience with fromsoft games, I couldn’t get into them every time I tried, then 2 years ago I beat blood borne after hours and hours of fighting with the controls to today, platinuming every single souls game, bloodborne, sekiro, demon souls, and elden ring. I have tons of merch/toys from these games now and they are my all time favorite games.
@justinchalifoux4424
Жыл бұрын
How do you think one would go about having a fragmented story telling while also revealing mysteries in a satisfactory way? I’m trying to make a fantasy story that has our characters in a section of the world who’s founders died long ago. I want to reveal what happened to them one day, but I also don’t want to ruin their “mystery”
@seano6859
Жыл бұрын
I mean honestly I think the point of deep diving lore in a lot of ways is about trying to get a better understanding of the artist making it, and their creative process/outlook. It’s interesting to look at alchemical symbolism in Elden Ring because it highlights what Miyazaki and GRRM are looking at while writing and what concepts they are using from other works- it just shows this interesting mix of creativity and inspiration. Like you don’t read Dark Souls lore for 3 hours because it’s a super strict subject you’re gunna get tested on- you do it because you wanna know what Miyazaki was thinking/feeling when we wrote it and what tht ultimately meant to him. I think that’s what a lot of people mean when they talk about a game having a “true meaning” or a “right interpretation” something. Same kind of art analysis any/every other medium gets.
@LoreHunter
Жыл бұрын
That's kind of what I'm talking about when I'm talking about better understanding the game. You're never really going to know what they were thinking/feeling when they wrote it, but you're engaging in the shared experience between writer and player. The "true meaning" or "right interpretation" is just coming to a better understanding of the work and being satisfied with conclusions and connections you have internalized, as Miyazaki mentioned in the last part of his quote on storytelling that I shared.
@seano6859
Жыл бұрын
@@LoreHunter yea I guess I should emphasize I’m not disagreeing or saying you shouldn’t value your own interpretation - because that’s always the most important thing - just saying the overall analysis by the community is also great! The whole process is worth while.
@seano6859
Жыл бұрын
Great content!
@davinsosa1438
Жыл бұрын
I fucking love David Lynch. Great start to the vid lol
@santiagojara8056
Жыл бұрын
Lynch and Elden Ring? Yes, please
@MrBedZeppelin
Жыл бұрын
Imagination is more important than storyline. I said that. I may have read it somewhere what is more important is you just read it, right now and your imagination is running wild trying to think who said this famous quote.
@jipowap
Жыл бұрын
I hope we can preserve Miyazaki's brain when he dies, so one day we can read his memories and fill in the blanks. It is all infuriating, even if it is fun, to look at the stone lookouts and not know who made them.
@desfefe
Жыл бұрын
Miyazaki and RR Martin working together looks to be a match made in heaven, even if I have no idea what Martin's contribution to ER is.
@jipowap
Жыл бұрын
@@desfefe His contribution was the contents of the intro cinematic, it turned out. All else was iteration, addition and recontext on Fromsoft's part.
@lahunica2726
Жыл бұрын
@@desfefe it was said multiple times, he helped building a world and events that happened long ago that shaped the Lands Between as we see it now.
@hare75
Жыл бұрын
This video is for people who complains that elden ring nominates best narrative
@Tommy9834
Жыл бұрын
So the real story was, the journey we made on the way.
@l0rdfr3nchy7
Жыл бұрын
The lore of these games amaze me, but i have to look them up online. The loss of mystery this brings actually feels like it lessens the experience. While my knowledge of the pieces coming together greatens my respect for FromSoft. It's a hard balance to walk for sure =)
@SaintTrinaLore
Жыл бұрын
This one was super fun thank you! Have some engagement :)
@LoreHunter
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the engagement (and being awesome)
@Ripdric
Жыл бұрын
So the story of Elden ring is the friends (and feet) we met along the way!
@NickCombs
Жыл бұрын
Yep, we are dinguses (dingi?). Yet it is pretty much impossible not to keep searching for one "whole" story, even if it can only be our own. On another note, it personally does not work for me when these stories lean so heavily on past culture as touchstones. It cheapens the experience a little bit when I realize the vision is so clearly derivative rather than hiding the inspiration in more novel concepts. If I was looking for that kind of story, I would be playing a game that advertises itself as such (like Hades, Tomb Raider, or God of War) instead of a game that's supposedly set in a new unique world.
@NickCombs
Жыл бұрын
And yes, I do know the twist of Returnal. That doesn't justify that the game describes itself as being about aliens & time loop mysteries.
@LoreHunter
Жыл бұрын
I feel what you're saying, while also being more comfortable with it. In the case of Returnal it is more blunt with its borrowed iconography and symbolism, but what works more for me is that it is not *about* those things, moreso suggesting them. The subject matter is within the game, but it has a patchwork of touchstones that when experienced I think do focus the vibe for me. But I don't really fault someone who feels like it is laundering its meaning a bit.
@NickCombs
Жыл бұрын
@@LoreHunter I get what you're saying and I totally respect it. Although I still feel like they could be improved by distancing the theming from the source material more, I've still really enjoyed the stories of both ER and Returnal. Sorry if I come across more harshly than intended.
@sandrosacco2281
Жыл бұрын
I think that of all the souls Elden Ring is the best written, I don't criticize the method with which the story is told, on the contrary I found it fascinating and pushes the player to explore. What I criticize is the total lack of support for the player's memory. Do you want to build a hyper-complicated plot with deep intertwining between dozens of characters, eras and populations? Great but you can't expect the player to remember everything. From has to accept the fact that a jurnal is absolutely essential, at least of major events. Even a simple card of the main characters in which the main information discovered by the player is entered, something that helps the memory to put the pieces back together between one game session and another.
@Frozenkex
Ай бұрын
They dont click though. lmao. It gives more like "Is this it?" reaction.
@AlexanderJoneshttps
Жыл бұрын
Can't for Elden Ring to be GOAT!!
@joyboy7538
Жыл бұрын
Elden Ring itself, is one small adventure of the overall adventure, which is my story. I had the opportunity to tell my children and perhaps my grandchildren, of an age in which I became.... The Elden Lord 🤣
@technomage6736
Жыл бұрын
This is the opposite extreme of hand holding. Just cuz I don't want every minute detail explained, quest markers, and hand holding, DOESN'T mean I want nothing explained at all. It's like being told "You should stand up to that bully", so you blow the guys head off with a shotgun. You didn't have to go THAT far! Jeez
@LoreHunter
Жыл бұрын
Lol that comparison though. I think you get like 70% of the picture just as information. That being said, it still is requiring you to actively engage in discovery.
@notavinav
Жыл бұрын
I can't accept this. I can't believe Miyazaki presented a story making sure it cannot be uncovered.
@LoreHunter
Жыл бұрын
Are you telling me the man who made the pendant in Dark Souls 1 has an answer for everything
@notavinav
Жыл бұрын
@@LoreHunter nah what I'm saying is that I'm in wilful denial 😣
@BraidzMC
Жыл бұрын
"Berserk of course" 🤣
@giorgitsereteli2809
Жыл бұрын
People complaining about Elden Ring getting the nomination for best narrative this year deserve to be placed in a special room in hell. One where they just play the cinematics of David Cage games on loop.
@TheFpsNinja
Жыл бұрын
Mixed feelings about this one. I don't think it is right to say that the lore is merely in service to the experience. Experience never exists in a vacuum; it is always structured by external forces. In games, the lore is one of those external forces. It is the narrative half of the ludonarrative. What this means is that there IS some bedrock lore structuring player experience. It is worthwhile learning what that is and how it fits together. And that, I think, is what we mean by "solving the lore." We should care about solving the lore, moreover, because it gives us deeper insight into the game's meaning and significance.
@LoreHunter
Жыл бұрын
I think we generally agree. What you're talking about I refer to as understanding in the video. I would not characterize the lore as being "merely" in service to the player experience, because the continued experience of piecing the world together and coming to a greater understanding is one of the longest lasting ways I engage with these games. This is what I think Miyazaki is talking about in the last part of his quote that I reference about his approach to storytelling, where it is coming to an understanding of everything and piecing it together for yourself in a satisfying way. However I don't think meaning is found exclusively or primarily at the end of this process, it is something that starts with your first reactions and builds from there.
@mysteryneophyte
Жыл бұрын
Yeah right dude
@AlriikRidesAgain
Жыл бұрын
I mean, I pulled objectively wrong conclusions from it, so... I kind of feel like I didn't.
@LoreHunter
Жыл бұрын
Alright, I'll make an exception for you. Just you though.
@AlriikRidesAgain
Жыл бұрын
@@LoreHunter bruh, I thought Marika was dragon. Like, legit.
@ashencometmom5291
Жыл бұрын
@@AlriikRidesAgain you're simply built different
@AlriikRidesAgain
Жыл бұрын
@@ashencometmom5291 it's like... I thought I had it all pieced together. Missing Dragon God seemed a checkov's gun, dragons work with the golden order, Placidusax is missing half of himself like a splitting occurred which is like a Marika thing, she's made of stone, Lansseax can take human form, dragons control time and the whole Fortified Manor/Roundtable Hold thing could be explained by that, there's symbology seemingly referencing Marika in Farum Azula... Then I read some item descriptions and just felt like a moron.
@emil4448
Жыл бұрын
glad they included my favorite religion, berserker
@brianstanton2721
Ай бұрын
Non of that demi god shit lol this game is straight god tier! Not often we get a perfect game! Even if it's not perfect, I dare a game to get closer, not many have , that's a real exclusive club lol
@soliderack
Жыл бұрын
The soulsborne series Elden Ring included is purposely made to be left open to individual players interpretation.
@VelkasConsort93
Жыл бұрын
3k plus views and only 350 likes, come on tarnished ones
@lordofcinder8884
Жыл бұрын
I am a big fan of souls games and it's lore just not a big fan of it's narrative , it's unique yeah but not brilliant or great in my opinion Unique in the way that players have to piece together the story of the game which is not something many games do but doing that through item description is honestly lame and lazy, instead of making an actual engaging narrative they just copy pasted a book inside the game , it's basically reading a book in a video game where you are supposed to play and if you say cutscene are the same thing well at least cutscenes are fun to watch and engaging sometimes while reading is just reading and it's boring I may be too lazy to read but not lazy to fight an epic boss instead
@josephwille6464
Жыл бұрын
My problem with the idea that we are co authors of the experience is whenever I try to do that with fronsoft it is always a very negative experience for me. I am a cheerful person. if i were to go through the story and go with my gut on endings id have very shallow much simpler stories of good vs evil. and before i even reached the end of thr game those fanciful ideas of nobility and whos right and whos wrong would be shatteted. replaced by the idea that nearly everyone is selfish and therefore evil. Letting this catch me by surprise is not a pleasant or welcome experience for me. and yet im incapable of letting my imagination run wild and fill in the blanks in a way that doesnt set me up for disapointment in a fromsoft narrative. because of this i simply cannot except Miyazaki's assertion that i help co write the story because that story is always smashed by what lore thr game does reveal and the emotional whiplash from that is very negative. if i experienced a fromsoft story thst way i wouldnt play fromsoft games. instead i go in knowing its s big mess i csnt understand but there's some cool fights to ve had and vaati vidiia will explain the story later
@brandonwright2285
Жыл бұрын
Video games were always about living a story. Not being read one.
@SynysterProjects
Жыл бұрын
I mean, this is the same argument that people have been using since the original Dark Souls. "Your interpretation of the lore is just as valid as someone else's". But from the viewpoint of "what is the objective story behind Elden Ring", I don't think that's the right way to view it. There will always be some degree of ambiguousness to Fromsoft's storytelling, but for those of us who are invested deeply in the lore of these games, a surface level of understanding just isn't good enough. That's why we adore content creators like you, Vaati, and SilverMont, among others. You offer perspectives and lore tidbits that most would never realize.
@LoreHunter
Жыл бұрын
Well put. I love hearing other’s thoughts and engaging in it as a collaborative experience. I think the processing of mulling things over and talking with others is totally part of the (intended) experience.
@SynysterProjects
Жыл бұрын
@@LoreHunter I completely agree. I love comparing my own interpretations of these games with other peoples', and I honestly can't wait for the next game to be announced because your Elden Wait series made the wait so much more bearable!
@George-wy2yb
Жыл бұрын
11:28 whiff
@_winston_smith_
Жыл бұрын
There isn't a narrator walking around behind you explaining everything that happens in the real world. Why would you need that in an open world game? Explore. Enjoy. Each person has a unique experience and that's ok.
@Spinexus
Жыл бұрын
I mean we and our character know jack shit when we enter the lands between. We only learn from items we pick up and when talking to people. Elden Ring is hyper realistic in that way. xD In other games there will be your character spam talking shit or a talking head or other plot device that makes sure we get the story.
@Carrot-Man1876
Жыл бұрын
Hi
@QuantumTelephone
Жыл бұрын
Elden Ring is about circumcision
@xinonuzumaki83
Жыл бұрын
Your the Lore Hunter and I’m the Child Muncher Together we are the Foreskin Duo
@sociopathetic17
Жыл бұрын
I love David Lynch and I really like Elden Ring. But imho, they both have thematic plotlines. Not a whole framework of a story. So, basically on the basis of scriptwriting, Elden Ring is a weak game. I'm not talking about narration, talking about the story itself.
@LoreHunter
Жыл бұрын
Just seems like kind of a narrow lense through which to consider what makes a story strong or weak.
@sociopathetic17
Жыл бұрын
@@LoreHunter I feel lazy about explaining the difference between thematic plotlines and a whole story writing. I'm not an expert, but for more than 20 years, I've been writing fantasy settings' both mechanics and backstories as a narrative tabletop storyteller. So, yeah, a weak story with a sweet storytelling for both Lynch and Elden Ring.
@LoreHunter
Жыл бұрын
@@sociopathetic17 No need to explain, I understand, I just kind of disagree. And I think it's probably more of a semantics disagreement, because I think we both recognize and enjoy the approach. Weak just implies to me it would be better if it was stronger, and I don't feel like that's the case. And I doubt that's what you're asserting, but I think that's what I got hung up on.
@sociopathetic17
Жыл бұрын
@@LoreHunter "Stronger doesn't mean necessarily better" approach made me intrigued. I didn't think like you did. Interesting perspective. Maybe you're right, maybe an intentional lack of story suits better to this type of work.
@whiteknob7944
10 ай бұрын
Even the players pick sides, except for me of course I don’t trust any of these demigods. But look at all the pro halig propaganda we have from a lot of lore channels. They’d be the first to blow themselves up for their God. Even a year later and people still believe Radagon is a real person. This story messed with people.
@KratosBruderDesBaal
Жыл бұрын
to me it seems youre contradicting yourself on a conceptual level by preaching how everyone can make their own story out of their playthrough while still dismissing viewpoints that you - on accord of your own playthrough - do not agree with.
@LoreHunter
Жыл бұрын
Someone disagreeing with you does not make you wrong, and changing your perspective through better understanding does not negate previous experience.
@KratosBruderDesBaal
Жыл бұрын
@@LoreHunter Of course that's true for pretty much anything. It 's not about disagreeing or a discourse in general though, but about your dismissal (without any discourse). Because therre is nothing to be gained for anyone by just dismissing a perspective without explaining why.
@GoldenMarionette
Жыл бұрын
Elden ring has an ass story tho so it doesn't matter how they tell the story, it'll still be ass
@SM-nz9ff
Жыл бұрын
Imagine not even understanding the basic elementary school vocabulary word "narrative". LOL those people crack me up FR
Пікірлер: 155