I think it is possible Katharine could have committed suicide because of her inability to bear a child for the party seeing how much of her being was dedicating to serving the needs of the party. While there is no evidence of it outside of speculation, suicide is not unusual in the setting.
@nineteen-eighty-four-lore
3 ай бұрын
There's one confirmed suicide (according to Julia). Her first lover killed himself before the Thought Police could get him and Winston takes it as a given that a lot of the disappearances are actually suicides too, so it's probably not that unusual. It's possible.
@CaptainUnusual
3 ай бұрын
I just came up with another theory. Maybe Katherine was arrested seven years before the novel and she denounced Winston under torture (or said something that made the TP suspect him) so SHE'S the reason Winston was put under surveillance in the first place.
@johnburn8031
3 ай бұрын
That's an excellent theory.
@CaptainUnusual
3 ай бұрын
Thank you. The only weakness in the theory is how goodthinkful Katherine is, but let's face it, the Party will arrest anyone - even those who are innocent by their own standards.
@BoJenfa
3 ай бұрын
@@CaptainUnusualis it possible that the simple fact that their marriage didn’t work out has caused Winston to be put under a microscope? I mean if she was sufficiently brainwashed, then Winston must’ve been guilty of wrongthink, right?
@glensmith491
2 ай бұрын
@@CaptainUnusualI call my retirement day my asshole day because their are some people who will only learn my true thoughts about them that day.
@mitchellline4242
3 ай бұрын
I think you need to remember just how common death is in oceania. His wife could've easily died in any random bombing
@jimcameron6803
3 ай бұрын
Winston clearly believes that Katharine is still alive during his stay in the Ministry of Love: "He confessed that he had murdered his wife, although he knew, and his questioners must have known, that his wife was still alive." Part III, Chapter 2.
@alanpennie8013
3 ай бұрын
That does seem to establish his innocence.
@benthomason3307
3 ай бұрын
Hey, when you get around to talking about room 101, I think it would be very pertinent for you to mention the very reassuring fact that psychologists have since found that it's simply fundamentally impossible to torture someone into believing something (in fact they'll end up far less receptive to your beliefs if anything, since they'll associate it with torturers). Orwell based this plot element on the Moscow Show trials, where prisoners were made to confess to outrageous crimes in front of cameras. Orwell assumed they'd been tortured into believing these accusations, but after the USSR fell we learned that the truth was that their families were simply being held hostage. you know, just in case someone like alex jones watches the video.
@scitchmunkey5587
3 ай бұрын
One of the most natural and human moments Winston experiences before he meets Julia and his mind turns to murder? it makes me wonder how much this would of contributed to his eyes opening and him becoming a fully fledged thought criminal. Also I think Winston's dark thoughts are just an extension of his general thought crime. I think the T.P. saying he murdered her was just a torture tactic. If they actually thought he was a murderer I doubt they would of bided their time for years. I guess she could of been vaporised but since Winston doesn't know, we never will.
@tarvoc746
3 ай бұрын
Is it just me, or is Katharine kind of the polar opposite of a vaporized person? A vaporized person may physically still be there and alive, but all records, memories and references to their existence are struck from public record and public life. Katharine has references of her life and existence all throughout the book, records, memories, everything indicating that she should be there - only she herself as a living being is a complete no-show in the book.
@jimcameron6803
3 ай бұрын
Winston really isn't a violent man; but he's been thoroughly desensitised by the daily horrors of life in Oceania and, to a large extent, deliberately by the Party itself. There's a reason why O'Brien is so easily able to extract the pledge from Winston to commit heinous acts in the service of the "Brotherhood"; and O'Brien knows this full well when he throws the same pledge back at Winston in the Ministry of Love. After all, the Party would fully expect and require a loyal citizen to be ready to commit all those acts and worse in its own service.
@ZENmud
3 ай бұрын
I'd pinpoint the fact that his job is to "rectify" the true histories, through elimination of news items testifying to those truths, via elimination or revision to match the Party propaganda. Therefore "deliberately by the Party itself" works for me 😅 otherwise, his exposure to the daily "grey turmoil" of city life in London seems too "populaire" in the French sense.
@paulteti
3 ай бұрын
My colleague who escaped Cambodia told me how he and his wife were married. The Khmer Rouge told all of the single people in the camp to form two lines all the men on one side of the room all the single women on the other, they were told to walk forward and shake the hand of the person in front of you, congratulations, you're married.
@fredyvaldez7295
3 ай бұрын
It's shocking how close thr Khmer Rouge came to 1984, remember this movement took power decades after the book was published and yet they where almost 1 to 1 as stupid, power focused and relentlessly evil in their purges as the party in 1984
@kallekas8551
3 ай бұрын
Rediscovering a book, film and a concept from my youth. I am enthralled…many thanks for your truly impressive work.✊
@Cyberspine
3 ай бұрын
An early title for the book was 'The Last Man in Europe'. Maybe that title would have carried the extra meaning that Winston, despite being a flawed and morally depraved man, was still a man, while others around him no longer were.
@toddsmith5715
3 ай бұрын
I've watched several of your videos, and I have to say that not only are each of them interesting, but that this was a great idea for a channel.
@nineteen-eighty-four-lore
3 ай бұрын
Thanks. 👍
@dereks1264
2 ай бұрын
"Lie back and think of Big Brother."
@matthewpivarnik6358
3 ай бұрын
On a related note, a video about "Julia" by Sandra Newman would be really cool. For anyone who might not know, it was a fantastic retelling of the events 1984 from the perspective of Julia and more of the feminist angle on life in Oceania.
@mitchelmodine9197
Ай бұрын
I'm late to the party (or the Party), I know, but I especially love the taglines at the end of your videos, coming as they do straight from Party rhetoric in the novel. And remember: Oldthinkers unbellyfeel Ingsoc.
@JohnWilliamNowak
Ай бұрын
I've always wondered about the ramifications of O'Brien's statement that "all the confessions here are true. We make them true," which to me suggests Katherine was killed to make Winston's confession of murder "real."
@ritawing1064
3 ай бұрын
The cobblestone incident reminds me of the description of Dali's assault - or fantasy thereof - on his sister in Orwell's essay on the painter.
@georged7059
3 ай бұрын
It really bugs me that this Chanel isn’t called nineteen eighty-lore
@ZENmud
3 ай бұрын
Don't get four-lore'n ... 😢🎉
@josepigroyper370
3 ай бұрын
I could see it Wistion was an evil man he just happened to live in a cruel and horrible world
@pathutchison7688
3 ай бұрын
Binging your channel. Just discovered it two days ago, and wanted to say that I think you do great work. Excellent insights and thoughtful commentary. 👍🏻
@nineteen-eighty-four-lore
3 ай бұрын
Thank you. I enjoy making these videos and I love the book. :D
@blu12gaming44
3 ай бұрын
The Party could have also said he murdered his wife as a metaphor for the fact that he abandoned the system of control exerted through a love-less (and likely forced) marriage that was itself an extension of the Party's will. So to the Party Winston may as well have done so as far as they were concerned, since it wasn't Catherine's life that they saw as being murdered, but her value as an instrument of their control. He didn't actually kill his wife (as in the actual human being), but he terminated one form of control that they imposed on him (their marriage and its utility in enforcing the party's will upon him). The Party likely saw their estrangement/separation as the moment when Winston began to defect from the Party, and eventually lead to his outright rebellion. So yes, he didn't actually kill a person (which is irrelevant to the collective organism that is the Party) but he did destroy the Party's mandated Marriage and the subsequent hold it had over him.
@schizoidboy
Ай бұрын
When one considers how Winston's co-workers, who are devout party loyalists ending up becoming unpersons, it's just as likely that Katherine ended up the same way. She could still be alive somewhere, but considering loyalty and obedience is no sure fire way to keep alive in Oceania it's just as likely she's not alive. I made a comment earlier about how no one in the book seems to die a natural death, it is possible that she's an unperson.
@GregoryElliott1973
3 ай бұрын
The thing we have to realise and ask ourselves is, with all the Double Think going on in the Book, Did Katherine really exist after all?
@tenacious3911
3 ай бұрын
Adaptions of Nineteen Eighty-Four attempt to paint Winston as a clear cut heroic and sympathetic character, even though in the book he is far from a good man. I do not think Winston was ultimately vapourized; not every enemy of the state suffers such a fate. For example Rutherford was not vapourized; instead evidence in favour of his innocence was struck from the public record.
@clearlypellucid
3 ай бұрын
I always perceived his violent thoughts and urges as symptoms of his desperate urge to lash out at his society and break the confines of his existence, rather than something inherent to his character. Every time he thinks about harming people it's because he's viewing them as an agent of society or an obstruction to his freedom.
@Jasmine1991forever
3 ай бұрын
I watched the movie "The Hitcher" recently and the strange relationship between the guy driving the car and the Hitcher reminded me of Winston and O'Brien. Moreover, Julia in 1984 and the waitress in "The Hitcher" are both expendable, secondary to the relationships between the male characters in both movies. So maybe Winston did murder his wife, or denounced her so that she was exiled to the gulag.
@obelix703
3 ай бұрын
Whether he did or didn’t do that, what is for certain is that Winston is a terrible person in general. It’s a fact that pales in comparison to the world of Oceania, but it’s so interesting that Orwell decided to not only make this protagonist flawed, but repugnant.
@josepigroyper370
3 ай бұрын
I kept getting that feeling when I read the book back in high school I remember getting physically angry when I read about the child story in his childhood but to be fair besides dystopia I mainly used to read books like political theory and legends like the authorian legends where generally is good vs evil and the good guys are only bad by the fact that they are brutal
@johnburn8031
3 ай бұрын
Another possibility is his wife became a non-person. 🤔
@johnburn8031
3 ай бұрын
Oh, you mentioned this possibility.
@d6spair
3 ай бұрын
i mean it’s kinda unlikely, she was a literal drone, like not even the “concerning” kind like syme, she was legitimately brainwashed and stupid
@johnburn8031
3 ай бұрын
@@d6spair so was his neighbour Tom Parsons. He was arrested for thought crimes despite not having a thought in his head. It's possible that Katharine Smith was accused of a thought crime. Maybe she was having a lesbian affair or was addicted to gambling. We don't have enough information from the novel to say. Syme was vapourised because whilst he was fanatically devoured to the Party, he also understood too clearly the purpose of Newspeak. Edit. O'Brien didn't accuse Winston Smith of murdering Katharine Smith in the novel. Only in one of the film adaptations.
@DavidMacDowellBlue
Ай бұрын
I am startled you didn't mention the Thought Police might have killed Katherine themselves.
@gintautassickus6390
3 ай бұрын
Not gonna lie. I completely did not know of her existence. My mind probably drifted away when I was reading that part.
@JohnWilliamNowak
Ай бұрын
Hey, it's a big novel...
@LucasBlanco-b3f
3 ай бұрын
Hello, I really like your videos, even though your mic could be better. 😂 I was wondering if you would do another speculative theory video, and if you do, I have one that might interest you: Is it possible that the three superstates are working together in some way? As in the war, being a front for them to keep their power.
@shadowbanned1999
3 ай бұрын
It is one global state just presented differently. Kinda how the "intel agencies" have been doing it forever. Name a terrorist organisation over the last 25 years that wasn't funded by Blackmoney from the C 👁 aye.
@jvcyt298
2 ай бұрын
Perhaps Winston's wife left him for an inner party member, or was taken from him by one? Such a devout believer, and attractive woman would be desired by powerful men.
@Felix_IV
3 ай бұрын
Great video!!!
@johnburn8031
3 ай бұрын
O'Brien didn't accuse Winston Smith of murdering Katharine Smith in the novel. Only in one of the film adaptations.
@nineteen-eighty-four-lore
3 ай бұрын
No, it's other interrogators that do that. Winton recalls it.
@johnburn8031
3 ай бұрын
@@nineteen-eighty-four-lore I'll have to look it up.
@ImaginaryNumb3r
3 ай бұрын
He did not murder his wife, the accusations of the Thoughtpolice are just par for the course. Just as O'brian denounced his existance, while confirming the existance of Big Brother, Winston did not kill her. However, he did kill her in thought. As such, he commited murder in the eyes of the Thoughtpolice. All other speculations here are fairly thrilling, but they strike me more as extended hypotheses.
@EternalSearcher
3 ай бұрын
So much great content on this channel, but the source is short so you have to come up with all the insane theories - did Winston murder his wife - is Winston really mentioned in the Newspeak dictionary by name
@zexfafa2794
3 ай бұрын
If the Oceania is just Brittan Theorie is true whice it most likely is, than Ingsoc and 1984 universe already exists. I would like a video on comparing North Korea and China to Ingsoc and 1984 universe
@ksay7649
24 күн бұрын
i think she committed suicide, the book says allot of people do and she had let BB down by not producing children
@garyturner5739
3 ай бұрын
But Winston and his wife didn't have any children in the book.
@johnburn8031
3 ай бұрын
Nor did O'Brien accuse Winston Smith of murdering his wife.
@cooltaylor1015
3 ай бұрын
What about 1984 crossover fanfiction. Imagine Son Goku has just come in 2nd in the World Martial Arts Tournament. He has gone off on his own to train. He arrives on Airstrip 1 after a strange bumpy accident. And just Goku's all over the Party. At first, he doesn't realize they are doing things. Then he sees what they are doing, and beats the party up. Every last one of them. Kid Goku of course. He shows
@dumpsterpsycho2894
3 ай бұрын
Winston had violent tendencies? Just like me fr fr
Пікірлер: 64