So glad him and Alex are ok. Blows my mind how far the cars have come and how zhou was perfectly fine.
@kalasmournrex1470
2 жыл бұрын
No doubt. An accident like that would have been fatal as recent as the 1990s.
@bndncn
2 жыл бұрын
Absolutely. I'm so relieved there's redundancy between all the safety systems. Halos save lives.
@Mexiturtle345
2 жыл бұрын
i was shocked seeing him walk around the paddock like normal towards the end of the race. Thank god for all the safety measures that saved Zhou's life.
@somdusazerate
2 жыл бұрын
yeah sure but that's to be assumed. in a similar time period rally cars have improved beyond this to a point where you can just send a WRC car into a ditch at 100 mph and the rollcage will keep you safe. formula 1 cars of course cannot have such a huge cage around them but my point is I don't think that crash was so bad that you couldn't survive it in a top spec fully modern race car of any sort
@anameyoucantremember
2 жыл бұрын
@@kalasmournrex1470 Would have been fatal in 2017
@mastur_grunt4244
2 жыл бұрын
Let's appreciate that even though the result of this accident is that the driver is able to compete less than a week later, we are still pushing for safer cars.
@alunesh12345
2 жыл бұрын
Believe in JESUS today, confess and repent of your sins. No one goes to heaven for doing good but by believing in JESUS who died for our sins. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.(John 3:16)🥳❤️😗❤️😁❤️😚❤️
@El.Gatito.
2 жыл бұрын
@@alunesh12345 this was all mechanical engineering masterclass in a league of its own, don't even attempt to pull that Jesus bullshit into this matter because he doesn't exist and it is all lies.
@alveolate
2 жыл бұрын
safety has to first, second, third, ... and last. anything that even has the potential to jeopardise any safety should be top priority for all regulators and officials. if this blade style roll hoop has any sort of weakness, then raise the standards. safety improvements should be as maximalist as possible. i don't ever want to hear news of an F1 driver getting killed in a race ever again... not even any serious injuries. on that note, sausage kerbs need to be eliminated.
@weaselworm8681
2 жыл бұрын
And tracks too! How the car got stuck was horrifying. If there had been fire omg.
@verticalflyingb737
2 жыл бұрын
@@alveolate literally just don't go off track and the sausage kerb won't hurt you lol (this is a joke)
@futeditzs2482
2 жыл бұрын
Once again the halo proved that it saves lives, it was one of the best inventions in Formula 1
@kekkonenprkl
2 жыл бұрын
Wouldn't have saved 4 out of 20 drivers in the current grid, though. Taller drivers heads protrude over the halo line and they wouldn't be able to duck when inverted, bounching violently and HANS device restricts forward movement. And a few more drivers would have their helmets touching the tarmac as well. Luckily Zhou happens to be one of the more average sized drivers.
@Mike-jv4rz
2 жыл бұрын
F-1 has been improving safety for years - tech used in other racing and domestic cars as well.
@kekkonenprkl
2 жыл бұрын
@Goat Exactly, that's why the roll hoop is the principal roll structure. But it snapped off and halo has the secondary roll stucture role. But those taller drivers would have been severely injured in an identical scenario.
@Luke121201
2 жыл бұрын
🙌Charlie Whiting 🙌
@pmrich7035
2 жыл бұрын
@@kekkonenprkl Is there a specific height for the halo? As a primary safety device, I would think that the regulation would require a “minimum height above helmet” Sounds as though you know more than I do since I didn’t even think about driver height - just wondering
@jmannUSMC
2 жыл бұрын
The thing I absolutely love about mechanical engineering is just how much you can learn when designs fail. I'm very happy Zhou walked away from this incident and because this critical safety part failed, it will be redesigned in hopes that it never does again.
@Parker--
2 жыл бұрын
The safety part didn't fail, the carbon fiber it was attached to failed. In order to prevent this again, it will take a drastic change in regulations and design. It would take something more akin to a "roll cage" around the cockpit to prevent such an event; something all the way to the floor of the chassis. The carbon fiber will always be the weakest link.
@Ale-nv2bo
2 жыл бұрын
@@Parker-- Ah remember when cars started getting bigger and heavier and everyone was on board with it because of "safety", it is so ironic that those bigger and heavier cars behave in dangerous ways during cashes. When cars where lighter roll structures didn't crumble so easily and cars just flipped again instead of sliding upside down.
@Parker--
2 жыл бұрын
@@Ale-nv2bo There's always give and take and all the rules regarding everything else are arbitrary to begin with. If they want to make a legitimate change so that the car is safer in this situation again it will take a drastic change. Of course, the question is do they actually want to make such a dramatic change for safety? Who knows. They could just as easily shrink the cars back down, still add a roll cage and keep the speed by changing engine specs and a billion other arbitrary rules if they wanted to. It's a matter of if they actually want to.
@warrmalaski8570
2 жыл бұрын
@@Parker-- Amen to that brother. Unlike steels, there is no failing by degrees in carbon fiber. Its 100% to 0 % in a instant.
@hava1715
2 жыл бұрын
@@Ale-nv2bo Surely you would rather be sliding in a car with a feature to stop your head getting hit than being in a car that’s flipping with no feature
@CIinbox
2 жыл бұрын
I always thought that the roll hoop was part of the monocoque just like the halo. Thanks for this vid to clear this up!
@ASJC27
2 жыл бұрын
Both it and the halo are not part of the monocoque. They can’t be - they’re made of titanium while the monocoque is a carbon honeycomb composite. Both have to be attached to the monocoque with either glue or fasteners.
@tedt7991
2 жыл бұрын
It should definitely be
@pabloarroyo1023
2 жыл бұрын
Unfortunately, a carbon fiber roll hoop would just get worn away really quickly. Carbon fiber is very strong but hardly abrasion resistant enough and would still deal with the delamination (layers coming apart) issues
@macedhx
2 жыл бұрын
If you think about it, it is, it's glued but all of the carbon layer are glued toghether aswell
@vrcshortys152
2 жыл бұрын
@@tedt7991 that would be extremely dangerous
@st3althyone
2 жыл бұрын
It was shocking seeing Zhou’s car being tossed around and dragged on the track and then stopping at the tire barrier. I watched it live on F1TV, and I couldn’t believe it when the accident happened. I’m glad that Zhou came out ok from this accident. It could’ve been so much worse. Thank you for the excellent breakdown, Scott!
@tkirchmann
2 жыл бұрын
Mom: Did you fail another test? Scarbs: I didn't fail the test, I departed from passing it.
@CaseyCollier
2 жыл бұрын
I was thinking the exact same thing.
@toolbox-gua
2 жыл бұрын
Thank God drivers are OK. Incredible accident and very interesting videos with lots of explanations for us the regular viewers.
@justmy-profilename
2 жыл бұрын
It's called a halo 😇 but it was engineered as every other part of the cars, so thanks engineers for drivers being OK 😉
@Adrian_Nel
2 жыл бұрын
Don't thank god. Thank the engineers.
@Andy123Harris1
2 жыл бұрын
Is it possible that the “blade” style resulted in greater shear stress by digging into the track? A more rounded hoop would have perhaps been subject to lower sideways force as the car slid across the surface.
@amjan
2 жыл бұрын
Yes indeed.
@Wozrop
2 жыл бұрын
That tracks, I suspect we may see a ban on the blade style roll hoop, but I suppose we'll have to wait for the official investigation to bring all the facts and findings and a recommendation.
@johnnytwospice1971
2 жыл бұрын
Like using a baseball bat to remove a barnacle versus a mailbox
@barbonson_richards
2 жыл бұрын
sheer stress is not gonna cause delamination of the carbon
@griffincurran451
2 жыл бұрын
i think that you might be on to something
@duncanbell315
2 жыл бұрын
When I was doing them there was the combined static test and there was a reverse theoretical test that you passed by proving your calculations in FEA. The latter was very often, er, well, extra material is extra weight and up there it heavily effects your CoG, so yeah, the reverse test calcs were perhaps wishful thinking. Also bears mentioning that the hoop passes ONLY this combined test, swap the values around, change the values, worn't pass. Remember the old side crash tubes? Literal tubes at 90deg to X? Literally only worked along their axis, hit the barriers slightly oblique and they were useless. The cars are designed within the rules with no consideration to driver safety, dirt truth. The rules need to consider this, always. However, no-one will stand up in the TDs meetings and say "we know our car is unsafe in situation X, please change the rules".
@mydeadtrim
2 жыл бұрын
no way these got hacked someone get the FIA on this now 😭😭😭 or maybe it was them
@projecttitanium-slowishdriver
2 жыл бұрын
A great video again from Driver61. What I have learned from my co-workers ( one has done a Ph.D. in how to repair metal fractures of the airplane with glued composite plates) is that bonding is a much better way to connect parts than glue and bolted connections, less stress, and no weak points. I do a lot of fea calculations for rollover structures with implicit and explicit code, at this point for big machines, for example, the vertical load can be 100 tonnes. I do prefer explicit code because it allows progressive damage model to steel and weld structures and their alloys, to design lighter structures than implicit code.
@Infiltator2
2 жыл бұрын
yeah only problem with the glued composites is that for the calculations it is harder to define how the loads gets turned over. As for bolted/riveted (bolts are rarely used) connections you can to that way easier. In the c ase here i would suggest hat the adhesion between comb and top layer of the carbon failed. Therefore a bolted connections would improve that. because then the load would be applied to fully use the strength of thestructure. It also would help becuase such impacts can cause delamination which then weakens the carbon
@andresmartinezramos7513
2 жыл бұрын
I was wondering and if you could answer wonderful, and if not, maybe you could ask your friends: Could it be that the initial vertical impact damaged the carbon composite debilitating the bond between the top layers and the rest of the monocoque? Then, the sliding after could have caused the debilitated structure to detach? Could this happen to an up to spec part or maybe it suffered from defects during manufacture? It is my understanding that small imperfections in composites are both easy to appear during manufacture and hard to detect.
@Infiltator2
2 жыл бұрын
@@andresmartinezramos7513 I comes down how its all layered up. I dont know if they use a core for example or ift its just layers of CFRP. If its done with a core im sure the weak point is between core and the first layer of the net.
@andrigtmiller
2 жыл бұрын
The picture seems to show left over adhesive (those reddish spots that are left behind), so I'm not so sure that it was the carbon fiber alone, but certainly some of the adhesive clearly failed too.
@jameshogge
2 жыл бұрын
I'm actually beginning to wonder if there was improper surface preparation on the monocoque: large regions of the adhesive were removed in their entirety which could suggest it had failed to properly bond to the carbon fibre.
@testpilotian3188
2 жыл бұрын
@@jameshogge yet more to suggest a return to how it was done for last 50+ years without many issues. Even if the “new is better” brigade still want to glue the roll hoop on, why not use bolts too?
@Shiinamusiclyricssubs
2 жыл бұрын
@@testpilotian3188 the glueing method spreads the load evenly, while the bolts method apply very strong pressure points right where the bolts are located, and also weaken the carbon fibre itself since you need to drill holes in it. I do not see a better solution other than increasing the amount of carbon surface woven into the roll hoop
@Sergeeeek
2 жыл бұрын
@@Shiinamusiclyricssubs well don't bolt it to carbon fibre then because it breaks so easily.
@jameshogge
2 жыл бұрын
@@Shiinamusiclyricssubs You would want to go the other way: carbon integrated into the roll hoop would break (its too stiff, you need something compliant to absorb energy) at the first deformation leaving just the titanium.
@regachom1
2 жыл бұрын
how the roll hoop is fixed to the car should be looked at. a larger surface area when bonded to the chassis or better integration into the monocoque
@PiousMoltar
2 жыл бұрын
Or if it's the carbon that failed... maybe the whole titanium structure of the roll hoop should have... "tendrils" as it were, reaching out deep into different parts of the monocoque, rather than just being a small flat surface stuck to it.
@kekkonenprkl
2 жыл бұрын
@@PiousMoltar Even a few simple bolted connections in addition with the usual adhesive would prevent the top most layer of the carbon structure being subjected to all of the stress and tear away. The adhesive is strong enough, but the strength is limited to the layer strength it's directly bonded to. A few bolts would relieve some of that stress to a thicker area/volume of the structure. But they haven't done that because they aren't required to, as long as they pass the tests, they will use a method that saves most weight. But it wouldn't add much weight to the car if it became mandatory to add some bolted connections there, especially if a more exotic alloy would be used. Not for the current season though, can't really require them to update their monocoques with the current budgets until next year.
@iammars142
2 жыл бұрын
@@kekkonenprkl Agreed. No need to reinvent the wheel here. Add some bolts in addition to the bonding they already use.
@kalle5548
2 жыл бұрын
@@kekkonenprkl yeah and a plate on the other side to bolt into, just the bolts would not add that much strength because they would rip right through the carbon, but a larger brace or plate would require every carbon strand to snap, as well there should be carbon string layer in a sort of U shape imbedded into the carbon around the holes so that the bolts can’t slide and rip through the carbon, also keeping the adhesive
@Chris-qn3oo
2 жыл бұрын
agreed, looks from this that the flat surface the roll hoop is bonded to has layer lines only on a single xy plane... an improvement could just be to bond to surfaces on the xz and yz planes as well, at least that way if one fails there are 2 other planes of layer lines to hold it.... i am not a composite expert, but it makes sense in my head!
@Weltbummler23
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for putting that together, was wondering what happened to the roll hoop there. Was so surprised to see only the halo keeping his head off the ground.
@jama211
2 жыл бұрын
Hurts to think of what could've happened without the halo - the back of the car would've still been some protection as the front tips up, but his helmet would've been dragging for sure and who knows what injuries or worse could've happened.
@SimonAmazingClarke
2 жыл бұрын
As a design engineer who has worked in aerospace composite design I have the following comments. Firstly this component took loads that were not envisaged st the concept stage. Secondly, while bonding is excellent,I think thos should be attached to the structure underneath better. Increased load paths and mechanical as well as bonded attachments.
@danielcgomez
2 жыл бұрын
I think that the design needs to be updated to have the actual roll-hoop extend much more below the current 'bonding' area ...The potential for such awesome and variable dynamic loads/stresses cannot all be accounted for ...and now that the authorities see that there is actually a failure point still present(bonding intersection in this case), they can do some updates. Extend the Roll-hoop 2, 3 or even 4 times lower into the Tub superstructure(even bonding it with the Tub structure at several points on different planes maybe?) ...I'm just so happy that Zhou was able to survive this one!
@amjan
2 жыл бұрын
Perfectly said.
@wivaquif
2 жыл бұрын
I had imagined the roll hoop to be an integral part of the chassis and not just stuck on, this illustrates the teams are putting weight and performance before driver safety.
@Addyboy0190
2 жыл бұрын
i've been saying it should be made of titanium when it already was, but i will say it needs to be better anchored to the safety cell
@curnath
2 жыл бұрын
Easy thing to say with the benefit of hindsight. I can't remember the last time we say a rollhoop detach in that manner. And again, apparently it wasn't the anchoring/glue connecting the rollhoop to the monocoque that gave way, but the carbonfiber of the monocoque itself.
@GonzoDonzo
2 жыл бұрын
@@curnath and wtf is the fia doing if their tests are so extensive and yet alpha romeo still got the chassis approved?
@arghnews
2 жыл бұрын
@@GonzoDonzo Did you even watch the video? This is such a strange accident, the roll hoop is tested in other ways, this will and should in time be incorporated into the testing and thus the design requirements of it. Alfa's roll hoop fully complied with the FIA's tests.
@dghtr79_36
2 жыл бұрын
@@curnath I don't think the carbon fiber failed, the design did, there obviously was a flaw in the way the layers were laid down if the bonding glue held and it ripped a piece of CF out when I first saw those photos I actually thought that regulations had changed and they did away with roll hoops or they are much lower, since the old test was a stick from the top of roll hoop to the nose of the car, and the drivers helmet mustn't reach the stick, now there is halo doing most of that protection, and the roll hoop is kind of redundant - which this accident kind of proved, it did absorb some of the initial shock though, so perhaps a crumble zone instead of hoop is now more fitting nowdays, and the sides of the halo should be slightly higher so no drivers helmet would ever protrude above it
@curnath
2 жыл бұрын
@@dghtr79_36 Roll hoops are definitly not redundant. There are lots of other ways accidents might happen that would be prevented by it. Just imagine a car running into and over the back of another one at the start. Happened a million times by now. No crumble zone is going to absorb that momentum. Having no roll hoop would mean the drivers would be unprotected from the back. I don't know enough about the crash or the way CF is layered to judge wether that would pose a weakness to this kind of application of force, or if its just that Alpha had some faults in their layering of this particular construction. Seems strange to me, considering it's far from the first time we see a car sliding upside down, but basically never saw the roll hoop detach like that...
@EJFXxx
2 жыл бұрын
thought they were designed to deflect lose tires, not roll over protection because like you said, low center of gravity makes overturns very rare ...the monocock intake handles rollovers
@drundub73
2 жыл бұрын
Imagine being the design team who designed the halo and knowing you saved this guys life .
@michaelhenderson4073
2 жыл бұрын
The concept emerged when the FIA's safety working group was looking to protect the driver from flying objects. Two recent examples had been the flying spring that hit Felipe Massa's head, and the flying wheel that struck Henry Surtees at Brands Hatch in 2009 with fatal results. Prototype testing showed that any protective device would have to be fantastically strong to work at formula car speeds. The original designs looked pretty awful, but Ferrari had a hand in making them look compatible with F1 car shapes. There were many in the FIA technical family who worked on the original research and development, but the concept was formulated and pushed forward by Peter Wright and Andy Mellor.
@drundub73
2 жыл бұрын
@@michaelhenderson4073 Thanks for that , very interesting . 👍
@twcmaker
2 жыл бұрын
I used to build yachts and bonding parts to parts was on the increase to save 'through bolting'. However, we had delamination problems too. If a part failed, the naval architects would put plate (ply or metal plate) beneath for strength. Then ultimately use plates with bolts welded to them, from the outside in, through the piece being bolted on, through the laminate (grp or Carbon f) and sandwiching the whole structure with another plate beneath, then washers & nuts. Serious "belt & braces" but we were responsible for people's lives. Great video thank you 👍. Jamie
@BananJumper
2 жыл бұрын
Am I the only one getting redirected to ripplesomething channel while clicking on this channel? I also got push notification about their stream, when searching for driver61, the first result is also this ripplesomething. What the fuck?? Edit: No im not :D
@edvinobing3576
2 жыл бұрын
They got hacked
@BananJumper
2 жыл бұрын
@@edvinobing3576 thank you, for second i thought that my vanced app got crazy
@wunkskorks2623
2 жыл бұрын
1:36- I hated the idea of the halo when it came out but, seeing this perfectly timed pic proved me wrong again. I don’t think Zhou would be alive or at the very least be able to walk if it hadn’t been for the halo. That said, maybe over the past few years the drivers have become a little too cavalier due to the cars being all but death proof at this point.
@kapilbusawah7169
2 жыл бұрын
I don't think so. Racing drivers achieve the limit no matter the risk, within reason.
@paulcopeland9035
2 жыл бұрын
I don't believe "able to walk" fits into this equation. Without the halo, his head would have been severed. Walking without a head is not an option.
@CaseyCollier
2 жыл бұрын
The cars aren't "death proof." That's the kind of ignorance and complacency that'll get drivers killed. Even if you think you've planned for every eventuality, there are still going to be things that you likely haven't accounted for. Murphy's Law: anything that can go wrong will go wrong.
@wunkskorks2623
2 жыл бұрын
@@CaseyCollier didn’t say that they were.
@CaseyCollier
2 жыл бұрын
@@wunkskorks2623 You said, "all but," meaning that you think they're nearly "death proof." That just simply isn't the case, which is why I pointed out the flaws in that thinking.
@jetzereitsma1276
2 жыл бұрын
Certain pictures of the car hanging in the fence show red glue still attached to the monocoque. My suspicion is that the glue did fail.
@Bilgediver
2 жыл бұрын
However the Halo did what it was there to do.
@VandepoelM
2 жыл бұрын
Amazing explanation, easy enough to understand, and in depth enough to not confuse! top notch!
@ASJC27
2 жыл бұрын
B sport’s video from yesterday is much better (and coming from an actual f1 engineer). Highly recommend, just as all the rest of his content.
@suprememaxpayne
2 жыл бұрын
I think an actual rounded hoop would have worked and not dug into the tarmac as much
@colehartel7206
2 жыл бұрын
Is this based on any kind of actual evidence or calculation?
@Thijs99
2 жыл бұрын
Great video as always. A little sidestep: did you also notice the new trend in ‘22 that after contact the rim fails and a tyre (and shrapnel from the rim) gets lose from the cars? I guess this is a new safety concern with the new cars (and 17” wheels).
@justmy-profilename
2 жыл бұрын
Happened already at Max's crash at Silverstone last year. I haven't seen that in 30 years before, but a couple of times since then. Seems to have started with the introduction of stiffer sidewalls for rear tires mid season last year, and with the 18" rims, now all wheels have these stiffer sidewalls.
@colehartel7206
2 жыл бұрын
The shrapnel we saw from the rim looked like it was just the plastic rim cover (a.k.a. wheel shroud), which quite predictably shattered instantly upon impact. Probably nowhere near as much of a safety concern as the pieces of jagged carbon fibre that regularly break off from the oversized front wings the drivers can't even see.
@bpp325
2 жыл бұрын
In the old days the roll hoop or roll cage was one shaped piece of similar material surrounding the driver. Now with the roll bar, a dissimilar material bonded to the C/F, the loads are transferred to the localized portion where the materials are bonded. I worked with C/F for many years and while it has extraordinary strength, its weakest is in shear and seemingly what/where the forces were applied here.
@mydeadtrim
2 жыл бұрын
FIA needs to investigate how this channel got hacked, but how will this affect lewis’s straight line speed from a slow corner??!
@antarjones7888
2 жыл бұрын
Great video. I wish it was longer. My question is did Zhou’s helmet ever make contact with the track?
@Salafessien
2 жыл бұрын
Geez got channel hacked by crypto lowlives
@RogerM88
2 жыл бұрын
Wonder if body work around the rear tires would prevent some crashes like these.
@thathobbyguy6135
2 жыл бұрын
It would but it would look pretty stupid
@Painful3rection92
2 жыл бұрын
No it doesn't. Indycar already tried that 10 years ago
@Jason911_
2 жыл бұрын
Channel has been hacked 😶 Hope they can sort this out
@patrickturner479
2 жыл бұрын
Sauber always built really save cars after the accident of Karl Wendlinger in 1994 at Monaco Grand Prix. And I think, they will find out a way to improve their cars as they did same in the past. For me it's totally unbelievable how Zhou survived the landing behind that barrier. That means helmet, halo and the rest of the car still protected the driver enough to get out the wreck without major injuries.
@danielsgrunge
2 жыл бұрын
That was extremely scary to watch... It seems like some of these recent accidents are getting more violent each time Glad we didn't have em while the halo wasn't here yet some years ago
@morgan200three
2 жыл бұрын
I feel like the tracks need to be held to higher specifications to meet the 2022 spec cars now, as intensive as the current ones are the cars are clearly getting just a little ahead of them now
@MrJr1976
2 жыл бұрын
Bruh. Do you not remember Canada 2007? That is THE most violent impact I've ever seen on a racetrack. F1 cars have been crashing violently for years. The Halo has protected far fewer than seatbelts, roll hoops, carbon fibre monocoques, and kevlar fuel tanks have. People like to say how many lives the halo saves. It's maybe 4 people in the past 4 years from injury. The HANS device alone has likely saved dozens of drivers from serious crippling injuries or death. An aeroscreen would be a much more visually appealing all-encompassing cheaper solution than our current halo. Btw, the halo would NOT have prevented Massa's injury because that was caused by a small piece of debris which would have slipped through the GIANT holes in the halo.
@danielsgrunge
2 жыл бұрын
@@morgan200three I get that same feeling
@danielsgrunge
2 жыл бұрын
@@MrJr1976 Yep, that was violent but it's a different kind of crash, not nearly as dangerous cause the car flying around protects the pilot from that massive kinetic energy Even tho the monocoque was damaged it was nothing NEAR just ripping the roll hoop off, that would insta kill Zhou without the halo, that's it Of course a seabelt is more important but there are some crashes where the halo just straight up saves the guy 4 in 4 years isnt good enough? What if we had 4 dead drivers in 4 years? Keep in mind only 2 drivers died in the 80s during official GPs...
@MrJr1976
2 жыл бұрын
@@danielsgrunge 4 drivers saved from injury. Grosjean would have died, Zhou would have lived, whoever it was in Spa would have been injured and Lewis could have died. The reason why Zhou would have lived is the way the cars are designed. If you flipped a formula car upside down, the high part of the nose and the roll bar/intake is generally a straight line above the driver's head. A plexiglass aeroscreen and a roll bar built into frame of the car would be a better combo. And if you wanna get REALLY technical, Grosjean's problem was caused by those stupid Armco barriers that force the drivers to submarine.
@spoony8232
2 жыл бұрын
Good thing Zhou is a short driver, if he was as tall as Russel, his head may have taken a lot more of an impact.
@cobar5342
2 жыл бұрын
Zhou must have been terrified. That would have been a fatal not so long ago
@hummakavula3750
2 жыл бұрын
The halo absolutely did its job protecting the driver and likely caused the failure of the roll hoop.
@CBTruth123
2 жыл бұрын
Fantastic analysis and explanation yet again, keep up the great work
@thomridgeway1438
2 жыл бұрын
I disagree! I have a suspicion and I'm sure I am in the minority that 'The Halo' did not save Zhou. On the contrary - it added to the speed of acceleration ... he was very lucky. It acted as a skid and caused more rotation. I think the gap between the top of the engine housing / air vent would have been more than enough to protect Zhou's helmeted head and actually act as an anchor, dig into the tarmac and slow the car down. Instead it became a missile and could have gone absolutely anywhere. That is only a theory, and is most likely wrong, but it should be put out there all the same. What saved Zhou was the incredible strength and flexibility of the car, not the halo. The halo is a work in progress, and must not be considered a success yet. In certain situations it may cause far more harm than good.
@nomoremr.niceguy4778
2 жыл бұрын
Not picking a fight here but the front of the hoop has scour marks and sparked like the Fourth of July. He’d be headless with out it. Lucky man.
@nomoremr.niceguy4778
2 жыл бұрын
Front of the halo I meant. Stupid autocorrect induced spelling errors.
@nomoremr.niceguy4778
2 жыл бұрын
They should consider attaching a lower support section to that hoop that wraps around the monocoque. Build it into the tub as a key structural element? Just thinking out loud .
@RH-hz9ly
2 жыл бұрын
I think this is the first time I saw someone goes upside down and sliding around the track. Watching and listening to f1 commentators made me learn to watch the whole shot, what's going on the background And to see Zhou's car in that condition is really scary
@Medevah
2 жыл бұрын
Can we all take a moment here and acknowledge that Jules Bianchi’s death is literally the event that saved the lives of Grosjean at Yas Marina, Hamilton at Monza, and now Zhou at Silverstone? Never forget the event at Suzuka that led to this.
@darren8453
2 жыл бұрын
Would be good to know the difference in the tests / construction / mounting between the roll hoop and the halo if anyone knows.
@Cecil97
2 жыл бұрын
im surprised with how many are in comments saying George is super dangerous and reckless because they think British media is running to cover for him. Its like the people going after Max for minor mistakes.
@ethrboy
2 жыл бұрын
he literally caused a terrible accident but go off
@LeeMooEez
2 жыл бұрын
Having brain doesn’t mean having the same inteligent level like the rest.. Oh we got one here xD
@Cecil97
2 жыл бұрын
@@ethrboy there are 3 players in this accident Zhuo who didn't do anything wrong, Gasly taking a risk to take a gap approaching a corner and George who veered left to setup for a turn. They both caused the accident but nothing out of gross misjudgment but multiple layers of unfortunate coincidences.
@jameshogge
2 жыл бұрын
Haven't seen a single comment saying this anywhere. Anyone who does is probably a clown
@ethrboy
2 жыл бұрын
@@Cecil97 no. it was George's fault 100% i bet you it was intentional
@Billydevito
Жыл бұрын
Relying on the carbon fibre to hold such an important safety item is just DUMB ! The adhesive is only holding onto the outer layer of CF, and that later is relying on the inter-layer bonding strength. The correct system of attachment should be bonding AND mechanical through bolts with anti-pull through pads. This accident highlights the shortcomings of this design and will surely lead to improvements. Great video.
@1_5RCBiker
2 жыл бұрын
B Sport (ex Force India) did a video on this. He had a good look and it was the 'Glue' that failed.
@myburneraccount3208
2 жыл бұрын
Another issue could be that the original, downwards impact could have slightly damaged the carbon fiber. the stuff is super strong, but it is also pretty brittle, so once it gets even tiny cracks or damage it will be much more susceptible to failure.
@ENKTDeeColon_and_randomnumbers
2 жыл бұрын
Reminds me of both the crash Diniz had at Nürburgring '99 and the controversy surrounding SNELL's testing of bike helmets
@DavidDeblaere
2 жыл бұрын
The fact he just walked out proves it didn't fail. These things are incredible in every way
@PiousMoltar
2 жыл бұрын
Um, the fact he walked was because of the halo and just plain luck. The roll hoop was gone. It was not helping.
@UncIe_Drew
2 жыл бұрын
@@PiousMoltar it took the brunt of the flip and held for a bit as you can see in the track damage. To say it didnt help is bs. The halo saved him during later part of the slide but may not have saved him on it's own with no roll hoop. It did its initial job and just opens the door to more development.
@isavedtheuniverse
2 жыл бұрын
@@UncIe_Drew Yeah, I agree. It seems totally reasonable to conclude that the roll hoop AND halo together kept him safe, and that its not guaranteed that only a halo would have saved him. Oh well, people want to be all angry or conspiratorial or blameful apparently.
@lcker6973
2 жыл бұрын
Another F1 engineer said it was the glue that failed since you can see parts of it still in place
@maozedong549
2 жыл бұрын
WTF ...how come there are 7.6 thousand likes on the live
@ab8jeh
2 жыл бұрын
Sounds like the location where the hoop is fixed to the monocoque needs beefing up somewhat or wider at the base as scarbs suggests at the end.
@ivanangelov8825
2 жыл бұрын
I guess the halo will be extended to protect more the driver in case of hook failure. If they mount them together it might pose bigger risk for bigger shocks on the driver, which might kill him. In this crash the car slid in somewhat predictable way, with only the final flip being quite scary, and the road being too close to his helmet.
@kylethompson3218
2 жыл бұрын
The Halo saved him 100%
@VekhGaming
2 жыл бұрын
Halo won't be extended because of the safety compromises. They tested it, any bigger and it would start hampering marshals trying to extract a driver too much from what I've heard. Unfortunately can't make a perfectly safe car, but at least we've reached Safe under most sensible circumstances.
@BatMan-oe2gh
2 жыл бұрын
I had the feeling that after the initial impact, the car started spinning on it, and that spinning was the cause of it failing due to the different forces being placed on the roll bar. But it is still good that they will investigate it, and probably introduce another safer system. And to see Zhou smiling afterwards shows really how good safety is these days. I enjoyed the explanation in your video, very informative without being overally technical.
@lordomacron3719
2 жыл бұрын
i think the most likely solution is to have the roll hoop fully intergated into the monocoque rather than a seperate peice added to it.
@eddie_23
2 жыл бұрын
bro the channel got hacked😂😂😂
@Philter-Coffee
2 жыл бұрын
So from personal experience carbon fibre is brittle, especially under a lateral load (bending along the 'grain'). Also regular titanium isn't the most abrasion resistant. As a breakdown - a sharper shape of the hood, in a material which will grind relatively quickly to form a sharp corner/edge (sharp points will snag and catch on tarmac), and supported by a small rim of adhesive on a brittle material with stupidly high peak loads from the hood snagging. Simplest fixes I can think of - hard metal cap to prevent grinding as much as possible, hardened titanium or maybe a thin plate of tool steel. thin and narrow sheets of titanium to work as legs underneath the hood which would give strength to the mounting area on the monocoque. Think like a pair of ratchet straps made of titanium and glued under the carbon fibre which supports the hood. It would mean carbon fibre is supported and way less brittle, as it takes on the material properties of the Ti as an additional bit of strength to stop the carbon fibre from cracking around the adhesive and letting the hood detach.
@samidilfar766
2 жыл бұрын
Oh fuck Driver61 channel is hacked
@Dasycottus
2 жыл бұрын
Ultimately, this was a spectacular success story for the Halo.
@roadtoawesomenessxd
2 жыл бұрын
Honestly that crash might've been good for him seeing how fierce he was a week later some racers need to crash to overcome certain fears. Can work both way tho. I'm just glad that cars are safe enough to make sure the drivers survive these experiences.
@whyjnot420
2 жыл бұрын
Something amusing/interesting to ponder: Some of the very earliest forms of pottery is taking clay, rolling it into long thin pieces, then layering them to form the shape of something akin to a vase. Contrast this with wheel turned stuff later on and you see the main difference is that the former is additive the latter is subtractive (if you will). The modern day 3D printed stuff like talked about in this video is really a high tech version of that technique which itself is only slightly younger than dirt.
@anthonypetty9288
2 жыл бұрын
Many thanks for the review and explanation. Best wishes from NZ.
@dextercarrie8131
2 жыл бұрын
I think they should introduce a titanium base structure for the titanium upper part to sit on as it was not designed for multi twisting forces. Bonding it to carbon fiber is strong, but ply direction during layup introduces uni-direction strength/weakness. I have experience in design with high end products and would recommend a different titanium to titanium hard mechanical mount as the carbon body can integrate the lower portion.
@tonyhull9427
2 жыл бұрын
It looked like Zhou’s helmet dragged along the track too. I wouldn’t be surprised if his helmet was full of gravel.
@mmavr_
2 жыл бұрын
It didn’t. Pictures showed the helmet undamaged when he took it off
@donaldmoser212
2 жыл бұрын
Great video. So did Zhou's helmet show evidence that it made contact with the tarmac?
@Alucard-gt1zf
2 жыл бұрын
No Zhou is quite small and there needs to be at least 7cm of gap between the top of the helmet and the "lowest" point of the "top" of the halo With how tight f1 drivers are strapped in there's no way for his helmet to touch the tarmac fortunately
@docmccoy9813
2 жыл бұрын
@@Alucard-gt1zf So the roll hoop is basically redundant
@danielvega6191
2 жыл бұрын
One of your best recent videos.
@dorin-mariancirlan9995
2 жыл бұрын
fkn hackers
@ISOTROPOSPHERE
2 жыл бұрын
In regards to the 3d printing featured in this video, F1 has long utilized these tools both in rapid prototyping and additive manufacturing on a small scale aspects. The roll bar appears to be created as a master pattern using stereolithography (SLA), then cast using traditional foundry methods and finish machined to spec. Smart and Cost effective.
@shibasurfing
2 жыл бұрын
The whole “blade roll hoop” concept seems suspect to me. It will by definition transmit a huge lateral force.
@philipcooksey3422
2 жыл бұрын
By definition, any shape would transmit the same amount of load, its just distributed differently. That's how statics works
@shibasurfing
2 жыл бұрын
@@philipcooksey3422 Sure. That’s my (relatively uninformed, and probably poorly expressed) point. The problem appears to have been the bonded carbon delaminating at the interface. So distributing the force over a greater spatial and temporal extent should help with keeping the roll hoop from detaching. Same force yes, but better distributed. The blade seems like it will concentrate the forces into one moment of failure.
@jameshogge
2 жыл бұрын
@@shibasurfing This is why the blade flares out at the bottom. It's not an issue with the blade design itself - which would mean it should be outlawed. Rather, it's an issue with the mounting which should then be specified in the rules or tested more stringently. Alternatively there could well have been a manufacturing defect. We just don't know yet
@shibasurfing
2 жыл бұрын
@@jameshogge i see what you are saying. That totally makes sense. I guess my question is, does the circular hoop do a better job than the blade of distributing the initial impact over a greater period of time? This would reduce the force. For a blade, it hits the track at once instant. A circular hoop would hit the track and then continue impacting for some time, decelerating it over a greater period of time. I could be completely off-base but it's what popped into my head.
@jameshogge
2 жыл бұрын
@@shibasurfing I'm not entirely sure it would. If anything, I think you might guess the blade design would be better. Reducing the peak force / spreading out the impulse over a longer period of time would come from flex within the shape of the roll hoop. Both designs would be very stiff in the vertical direction but the blade would be more flexible as soon as there is a lateral component to the force thereby cushioning it a bit? Then again, that is also a very double edged sword: flexibility in the bonded region may allow it to peel up from one edge - essentially only one edge of the join will take all of the force and it will tear away from that point. That would be my hunch anyway. Of course its incredibly difficult to guess how stiff these structures are - especially since they'll have complicated internal geometries to maximise the strength while keeping weight low. That's what the FEM analysis will be used for
@gabormiklay9209
2 жыл бұрын
2018 Monza: in FP2 Ericsson crashed the Alpha spectacularly. Although the roll hoop stayed intact there, because of the lighter cars and the not full fuel load. It's worth to watch, you can see the full structure of the actual roll hoop, not only the drawing.
@byanymeansnecessary9329
2 жыл бұрын
The fuel mass is negligible, usually about 90kg at the start of most races.
@gabormiklay9209
2 жыл бұрын
@@byanymeansnecessary9329 Fuel limit is 110 KG/race. And it's not negligable at all. That roll hoop is detached because of the added weight.
@byanymeansnecessary9329
2 жыл бұрын
@@gabormiklay9209 And Merc has won races using about 85 kg. Just because max fuel is 110kg doesn't mean they fill it to the brim for every race, and Silverstone is not a fuel heavy race. The load imparted on that roll hoop and the direction it was forced in would have caused it to fail even on empty tanks. In the 2018 Monza crash the roll hoop hit dirt, and not the track. Pay better attention buddy.
@gabormiklay9209
2 жыл бұрын
@@byanymeansnecessary9329 Still, at around 200 KPH (Zhou's speed before turning upside down) 90 KG is significant. Also: roll hoops are designed to hit tarmac (because what else could and upside down racing car hit first).
@christianpoirot8692
2 жыл бұрын
You mentioned that bonded joints are stronger to carbon than bolted joints, and while that may be true in the fact that the epoxies can hold ~3500psi, and they will just extend the footprint to meet the load requirements, the problem that caused this to fail, as you also mentioned was delamination of the carbon, which can occur for various reasons including voids in the part. The FIA should take a look at the material allowables from the carbon failure to see if they need stricter testing of each of the carbon parts, that interface with the roll hoop, especially if they are produced out of autoclave. Teams should implement solutions that don't rely on only stressing the top ply, either with a bolted joint with a backing plate to spread the load and prevent the fastener from pulling through the carbon in a crash, or through the use of joints that spread out through multiple plies of the carbon
@castleromeo3150
2 жыл бұрын
“Zhou” is slowly turning into “Joe”😂😂
@24gundrop6
2 жыл бұрын
Just imagine if the car was on fire trapped in the barrier 😢 The FiA should be thinking about this and how to solve it
@filoudadidou
2 жыл бұрын
What's your point? Driver61 is speaking about the roll hoop, not the halo?? Do you want a lmp1 with the driver entirely covered?
@24gundrop6
2 жыл бұрын
@@filoudadidou bro i was just trying to bring awareness to this
@dillon8212
2 жыл бұрын
Great content as always! I don't think the FIA needs to depart from static testing versus just understanding all of the likely directions that the hoop could be loaded. It was an unusual event how the car rolled and I think the more likely culprit of the failure boils down to assumptions on the magnitude and direction of force (which is more of a kinematics problem). Teams already use FEA to design most if not all parts since it's been around for a long time.
@jonaskussama
2 жыл бұрын
Can anyone remember the last time a F1 car lost its roll hoop? The crash was really scary, they'll need stronger roll hoops and tests after this one
@KarlPuidet
2 жыл бұрын
bruh did you even watch the video? clearly the hoop itself didnt fail
@HoosierRC
2 жыл бұрын
Driver61 you have no idea how many times I’ve seen that role hoop survive an Indy car crash over 220 mph. Roll hoop FAILED miserably. Poorly built cars the FIA seem to call “safe”.
@myleswilson494
2 жыл бұрын
Needs to be integrally mounted as part of the load frame monococ not just bonded strongly to the carbon fibre surface on the roof.
@trevorhintz1290
2 жыл бұрын
No doubt that the halo was a much needed safety feature for the cars. However, one of the biggest problems I notice with it is there is still enough space for smaller pieces of debris to by pass it and still be able to hit the driver.
@TiagoCortez84
2 жыл бұрын
Nothing failed. That's why the man is well and racing this weekend.
@LaczPro
2 жыл бұрын
For me, the scariest thing wasn't the crash or the flip, not even the sliding. It was the place the car landed. What would've happen if the car was on fire like when Grosjean crashed in Bahrain? Everything worked like it should, and the anti-roll bar needs some improvement, but nothing like that space behind the wheel barriers. Also FIA, do something about the sausage kerbs, please
@Suicaedere666
2 жыл бұрын
Great video, thank-you to everyone involved, it is greatly appreciated🙌❤️🙌🤘💖
@forrestgump5315
2 жыл бұрын
Wow, i didnt realize how close this crash was to being fatal
@AirborneSapper82
2 жыл бұрын
Wow. Excellent video. Very informative. Thank you.
@pauljs75
2 жыл бұрын
So it's anchored in a way that didn't adequately anticipate how composites can delaminate with tearing forces? So they may need to make the structural safety component anchor like a bulkhead that goes through the entire car somehow, rather than simply being adhered to the surface of an underlying frame. At those kind of forces, perhaps it wasn't treated like a stressed member as it should have been. Maybe consult with engineers in aviation? They've dealt with lightweight composites for a long time, and forces encountered and focused upon parts such as landing gear. They should be able to tell you what's a yea or nay on heavily stressed elements. (Or those that have that potential.)
@joemak100
2 жыл бұрын
Very clear and concise video of incident. Leaned a lot from this. Thumbs up.
@markchip1
2 жыл бұрын
I was surprised that they're only bonded to the tub but not also bolted through the tub and then through another very substantial plate underneath!
@WildwoodClaire1
2 жыл бұрын
"Small mistake"? WHY can't you just admit that George Russell did something stupid and almost killed another driver?
@TheEulerID
2 жыл бұрын
The one thing nobody ever seems to mention is the marshals who were standing behind that tyre barrier and in front of the fence. You can see them scattering in the TV replays as Zhou's car heads their way. It was also lucky that there wasn't much kinetic energy left when the car hit the fence. Those are designed to stop debris, not one of these modern, somewhat obese modern F1 cars.
@tomhutchins7495
2 жыл бұрын
Great video, super informative and as always Scarbs makes it easy to understand. I'm guessing 3d-printing the entire car out of titanium is out of the question though.
@andresmartinezramos7513
2 жыл бұрын
Too heavy and not only would it be prohibitively expensive, it ould be significantly worse at absorbing energy from crashes
@brittgardner2923
2 жыл бұрын
It sounds like either they'll need to extend the titanium into the monocoque in such a way that it bears against the fibers more laterally, so that the matrix doesn't separate under shock or torsional loading, or they'll need widen the hoop and have it swoop down into the halo or side pod so that the roll hoop is integrated into the survival cell. My guess is they go with the first option for now, and possibly some version of the second for future car generations once they figure out how to do it without being ugly and ruining the car's aerodynamics.
@IparIzar
2 жыл бұрын
Tipping them over is hard until you lift the nose so much you practically invert the angle of attack of the front wing, making it lift you more.
@billfreeland5489
2 жыл бұрын
I remember watching my uncle's best friend, Tommy Thompson (running mini-indy for Young Black Racers of America I believe) when a multi car accident sent him over the wall upside down and backwards. Car was in pieces, tub was intact, but roll bar had bent, tommy could not breathe the 20 minutes it took to get him out ( took 2 jaws of life), but he went to long without O2 and did not survive long after that. Of the car would have cleared the wall by 3 more inches, he would have lived. 😓
It really was a weird accident that is not going to happen again. Adjustments to the halo might bring more security, but can't do much else. You would expect the car to flip and tumble. Maybe the halo stopped that tumble, but ultimately it is the life saver of the sport.
@IRONMAN-oh5od
2 жыл бұрын
It seems the halo also played a part as well, it helped keep the car upside down for an extended period as the car was balanced upside down on the halo, I'd say the roll hoop and halo in tandem need to be looked at.
@jpdemer5
2 жыл бұрын
That "glue" is stronger than the carbon composite it's attached to - it's what they use to put commercial jets like the 787 together. There's no frame or chassis that you could attach the hoop to, so the only things you could do to prevent this are (1) make the composite itself stronger (a job more for the chemists and materials scientists than for the engineers), or (2) build the monocoque around the hoop, so it's fully incorporated into the body of the car. The latter design would not fail unless the crash was so catastrophic that the monocoque itself was crushed.
@blackknight1013
2 жыл бұрын
I think the most amazing thing for me is how many lives the halo has already saved. Mostly because before it was introduced I can't think of an F1 incident where someone has been badly hurt or killed due to the lack of protection it provides. Seen close calls like Alonzo at I think Barcelona when he had a car slide at speed right across the front of his car nearly clotheslining him. Yet now it's saved two for sure, and even Hamilton likely got saved from injury when Max's car rode over top of him at Monza.
@RWBHere
2 жыл бұрын
Nicely explained, both of you. 🙂👍 So glad that the halo worked. Less than 20 years ago, if that had happened, he would have been dead. I'm wondering how much of that Carbon fibre failure was down to the car being so wide that the roll didn't continue until the car hit the tyres? Incidentally, all that saved the spectators from being hit by the car was the wire fence. Perhaps it should have been further away from the tyre barrier?
@bobuk5722
2 жыл бұрын
When did the failure happen! In the initial vertical impact, skidding across the track, when ploughing through the gravel or a combination of two or more? I imagine that the impact loading and drag coefficients are very different depending on the surface the hoop was interacting with. I would think the FIA must now be looking at some rotary dynamic load test spec as well as the static load one(s). Fascinating to hear how these hoops are manufactured and thanks for that.
@TheWebstaff
2 жыл бұрын
That roll hook makes we think if it ever got near a drive its game over no matter, might have well just be a cutting wedge.
@Capitainetim
2 жыл бұрын
that halo features saved so many life, it's crazy :O
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