Thanks for hosting that debate. Lots of facts and angles I was unaware of. I do think a central difference between the two viewpoints did not get addressed, and that is fat burning vs. sugar burning. Peat and his followers prefer sugar as the main fuel because from their parsing of the literature, it burns more cleanly than fat, even if the fat is of the saturated kind. Carnivore dieters are often ex-carb-addicts (it took me a while to understand that carbs is a euphemism for cake, sodas and white bread), so have a highly exaggerated antipathy towards sugar in all forms. There are good arguments on both sides, and in the end it may turn out that people just may be genetically better adapted to either sugar or fat as the main energy source. This was another area that should have been explored: to what extent this key divide in nutritional thinking can be traced back to genetic deviations in hominid evolution, Neanderthal genes and so on. A topic I find deeply fascinating, but not something the bioenergetic folks particularly care about.
@CK51515
Жыл бұрын
I think Chaffee's positon on fructose does not hold. Which gives some indication into his blind spots
@chuck1804
Жыл бұрын
His whole view on saccharides is suspect. Exogenous glucose is "toxic"? in an organism that runs predominantly on glucose as a fuel source. Pair that with citing Lustig et al who has been widely and repeatedly debunked.
@CK51515
Жыл бұрын
@@chuck1804 Precisely. Nothing should be assumed from any perspective, because all perspectives are inherently distorted by the observer's distortion. So I feel it is important to question even at the most fundamental concepts, pitch the so called experts on each other and see where truth potentially lies. My recent understanding is much more inline with Ray Peat's approach. But even then I am constantly asking does Ray or Georgi have blind spots. Amazing what learning can take place when we look again with fresh eyes.
Жыл бұрын
With respect, for the majority of my life I thought that looks are superficial and judging people by them was shallow. What I didn't realize is they reflect people's health. Stopping thinking that and working on myself was an integral path of significantly improving my life. Yes, there are exceptions and it's good to refrain from unconstructive comments. I just encourage people to work on themselves. Totally worth it.
@Nervedraz
7 ай бұрын
Brian, have you heard of Brooke Goldner MD from Goodbye Lupus? She would be an interesting guest on one side of a debate as she strongly believes that an ANTI-ANIMAL based diet is essential towards recovering and maintaining health. I personally do not agree but she has attracted a very significant following and claims to reverse fatty liver and all kinds of autoimmune diseases with her approach. Please look into this and let us know.
@ocho33
2 ай бұрын
Sounds like another starvation approach
@jasonmarlowe4758
Жыл бұрын
I've been on carinvore for about 6 weeks. I feel much better than I did prior to starting and my energy is always high throughout the day. I started this style of eating not for weight loss, but simply for health optimization. I've also completely removed all caffeine, tea and coffee from my diet. One thing I've added to my diet that makes me feel even better is local grassfed, pastured A2 Raw Whole Milk. I feel great after drinking a glass full after eating eating a couple of grassfed ribeye steaks.
@ad-ross
Жыл бұрын
Great show! The pro-metabolic approach is far more sustainable for me although I still track calories, I'm eating healthy versions of my favorite foods.
@IonTrone
Жыл бұрын
great idea to organize the discussion! yes, more of them please! I liked your moderating style, it facilitated the flow and the flowing discussion
@briangryn3680
Жыл бұрын
Awesome, thank you!
@tiggerzzz
Жыл бұрын
That was a great interview!
@briangryn3680
Жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed :)
@thedude_96
Жыл бұрын
I would challenge your perspective on the Georgi Followed during his time doing what he termed "low carb". During an interview with Tucker Goodrich he talks in more detail what his supposed ketogenic diet was and he describes it as lean meats very little fat combined with highly starchy vegetables. This is vastly different to the majority of other keto and carnivore diets label and practice. Goergis' switch to his current diet he claims to have lost 60 pounds but I wonder if he changed his diet further if he would have even greater success. The example of sugar is the most conflicting piece of information he promotes and higher sugar intake makes sense in communities that are literally starving to death but he needs to seriously flesh out the hypothesis he follows because, he is one of very few groups who promotes free use of sugar and not every one associated with ray peat associates using sugar so liberally. Please remember I'm not bashing him here but I think he seriously needs to clarify this information because there are many different diets that can be followed to achieve keto and the message he talks about places all of them into the bad camp with no clarification yet he wasn't largely against Dr Chaffee in terms of eating mostly meat and fat.
@Aquapumpkin
Жыл бұрын
Yeah, people always change the diet yet still think they are adhering to the definition of the diet, and then go about saying it didn’t work for them. Equivalent to people eating Atkin Bars who say keto made them feel shit
@cremes
Жыл бұрын
Shoot a link to that Tucker Goodrich discussion here so we can hear it and formulate an opinion. I've heard him mention his prior diets as being keto or carnivore but I never heard any details about it, e.g. a daily or weekly menu he followed.
@ocho33
2 ай бұрын
Why do you think our ancestors ate fruit and honey in abundance for energy on their hunts? The biggest issue I see is a true ketogenic or carnivore diet would be impossible. Unless you think our ancestors had keto bricks or ketone Esthers they fueled on sugar. This idea we just didn’t eat unless it was an animal is so silly. And all these animal based diet tribes that the carnivore people love to cite, thrive on animal based carbohydrates (dairy and honey). The Peat approach is being bastardized by obese Americans who want an excuse to eat all the sugar they want just like how the keto diet was/is bastardized (dirty keto). It’s all the same nonsense really. All I can say is that after a year doing strict carnivore everything started getting worse. Cramps, low energy, limp dick, insomnia. And this seems to be a very common thing. Happened to Saladino too. When I added fruit and honey in and began implementing bioenergetic principles into my lifestyle everything improved. Dramatically. I am still pretty low carb and I don’t think insane amounts of sugar works for everyone but the low carb community have become the dogmatic folks now. Carnivore zealots are starting to sound like vegans did 15 years ago.
@simonburt2716
Жыл бұрын
I follow the bioenergetic viewpoint, but the fact that Georgi drink liquid refined sugar (soda) instead of polyphenol-rich nutrient-dense fruits and well-cooked starches is a big no-no for me. I think he’s wrong on calories-in-calories-out. He should run a caloric deficit to lose the extra pounds. Many gain so much weight, get fatty liver and metabolic syndrome in the Ray Peat Forum.. And thyroid, caffeine, aspirin don’t prevent them from that.
@marekjurek3433
4 ай бұрын
calories in and out is just estimate ..... how you can calculate calories out ... mission impossible....even in is a difficult one isn"t it?
@HealthMasterJedi
Жыл бұрын
What type/cuts of meat are considered fresh?
@SoulEscalator
Жыл бұрын
I don’t understand, omega-3 Is also PUFA, but isn’t omega-3 good for us?
@briangryn3680
Жыл бұрын
Correct it is a PUFA...you will hear differing opinions about Omega 3's...my next video is on this topic
@SoulEscalator
Жыл бұрын
@@briangryn3680looking forward for it.
@chargermopar
Жыл бұрын
I eat out 3-4 times a year and always at a buffet. Pretty much all I eat is some kind of meat, eggs , cheese and yogurt. No veggies, very few fruits and only yard grown. Honey will make me vomit because it tastes so nasty. This has been my diet for most of 40 years. No chronic health issues, and a nice stable mood. My belief is that there are differences in biology, but here's my rule. No leaves, stems seeds or roots. If you want to eat fruit, that's your choice. Although they are roots some people seem to thrive eating cooked tubers as part of their diet.
@fedegroxo
Жыл бұрын
Carnivore is a good survival diet
@SoulEscalator
Жыл бұрын
What about palm oil? It is mainly saturated fat. So is it healthy or not?
@SG-ji5ij
24 күн бұрын
Not. Too high in polyunsaturated fats.
@andrewshouler2223
Жыл бұрын
Would appreciate an interview with Dr. Garrett Smith regarding cholestasis. Thank you!
@Aquapumpkin
Жыл бұрын
These bio energetics guys get too lost in the weeds. That stuff might be good for the 5% of people who seem to have very stubborn health who need to look into more nitty gritty issues as to why.
@ocho33
2 ай бұрын
“These carnivore guys get too lost in the weeds. That stuff might be good for the 5% of people who seem to have very stubborn health who need to look into more nitty gritty issues as to why.”
@oskaredwall7662
Жыл бұрын
I would like to see Georgi dinkov and Christopher walker. Talk about probiotics and gut health.
@TheRambocop
Жыл бұрын
Georgi is against probiotic, he talks in favor o antibiotics.
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