An interesting note from BigBattery engineering team: *_"Just to let you know, the cell inside this battery is called the BYD blade. If you search for "BYD Blade" on KZitem you can see a lot more information about this extremely high tech cell. We use it because of the quality, performance and safety. You can literally pierce a hole in the cell and it still functions with no thermal runaway at all. There are a few KZitemrs who have done that test and also BYD has released that test video. It is the same cell that is in the BYD Han EV, the number two EV in the world by sales. As you may know, Tesla and Toyota have both announced in recent months that they are going LFP globally and getting away from volatile NMC chemistries. Tesla and Toyota are planning on using it in their new EVs and released that information recently. You can read about that more on KZitem again by searching "BYD Blade"._*
@NebukadV
2 жыл бұрын
We want a block-diagram (including seperate paths for above and below 2 GHz ;) )
@Thesignalpath
2 жыл бұрын
Ha!
@bfx8185
2 жыл бұрын
:D :D :D :D
@gettestudios
2 жыл бұрын
Great episode Shahriar!
@vincei4252
2 жыл бұрын
The first 29 seconds put a big smile on my face especially seeing Pooch and patting the family :) Welcome to the renewables revolution. I went off grid almost two years ago. 54kWh of LiFeP04 and a Solark 12K and 13kW of solar panels. I don't do grid tie but I am able to switch the house back to grid if I need to which I haven't done since September 2020. System all built and installed by yours truly.
@bzuidgeest
2 жыл бұрын
Why? The batteries are very expensive. I live in the Netherlands and power outages in my country and most of Europe are rare. Electricity cheap. Centralized energy storage even on community level is much cheaper. Some people dream of being self sufficient, but that requires much more then a battery. If society fails or something, where are you going to find the replacement when it inevitably breaks down. If you are the only one with electricity you are also a mayor target. You won't survive long in the apocalipse. 😀 If that's your reason.
@edc1569
2 жыл бұрын
I have a grid tied system, fill it up on cheap overnight power and discharge it during the day, can use it as emergency power if I need
@egonotto4172
2 жыл бұрын
If the lab continues to grow like this, it will soon be larger than the universe :)
@KeritechElectronics
2 жыл бұрын
That's one big-ass battery, and a nice & clean wiring too!
@supercompooper
2 жыл бұрын
Let's do power analysis of the inverters and how well the other supplies reject inverter noise!
@paulpaulzadeh6172
2 жыл бұрын
Nice to see your face and not only your hands shariar,
@robertwatsonbath
2 жыл бұрын
When I first saw the white rectangular conduit my brain experienced some sort of multipath fade, I went "Oh, wow, WR90 waveguide".
@samfedorka5629
2 жыл бұрын
7:13 Date of Manufacture: 2022/1/4 Dectection Time: 2022/2/14 Very nice to have that information on a QR code, and they have even gone with a lager code so they can spell out "Dectection."
@DmitryAvsioukov
2 жыл бұрын
8:42 it says Status NOMAL. Shame.
@youdontknowme5969
2 жыл бұрын
lol maybe it's en español ("not bad") /s
@FrankReif
2 жыл бұрын
I think I remember reading in the LiPo4 literature that limiting depth of discharge to 90% max capacity considerably increases the number of cycles the chemistry can handle - so the cells end up storing more kWhs in total. It would be interesting to hear from the engineers working on this chemistry to verify how to optimize for the full service life and to modify the BMS accordingly. If your energy supplier allows it, the ability to perform arbitrage can end up making you a considerable amount of money, which pays for battery at the cost of potentially having a partially discharged battery during a power outage. I think this will be common with BEVs that have serviceable battery modules, hopefully standardized across the industry, so that the cell chemistry can do the work necessary before recycling.
@zaprodk
2 жыл бұрын
If you cycle them between 20 and 80% and don't pull/charge more than 1C, it will extend their lifespan to 30+ years.
@KD0CAC
2 жыл бұрын
Maybe I missed , but It is important that it should been emphasised more - so that it can not be missed ! ;) Having an automatic disconnect switch - to avoid killing or injuring lineman repairing everyones power loss ! Thanks again
@apexmcboob5161
2 жыл бұрын
Did you have a look at the 240/120 V output waveform? Just curious how close to a sine wave it was.
@Ziferten
2 жыл бұрын
That was my first thought after seeing the gross waveform it was providing to the battery during charge.
@briansauk6837
2 жыл бұрын
@@Ziferten Same question here - would love to see the FFT on a scope. A decent inverter should be able to a couple percent or less THD.
@christopherscholz
2 жыл бұрын
@@briansauk6837 the best tool for this kind of measurement is a power quality analyzer.
@briansauk6837
2 жыл бұрын
@@christopherscholz Definitely - but for those without one you can get a decent measurement with a scope, and it is somewhat educational to drill down to that level.
@SeanBZA
2 жыл бұрын
Just had the cellular service provider replacing batteries by me. Lithium iron phosphate, 4 packs replacing the old SLA blocks, each lithium pack having built in charge controller, balancing, and 12V per block. 4 blocks installed for the 48 V system voltage, and each one comes with integrated BMS, with a GPS and cellular comms, because they are a very stealable item. The install then involved taking the packs, and encasing them during install in a filled epoxy, with reinforcing steel and chains in the epoxy, to make them harder to steal. The replacement strategy will be to undo the rack from the floor, and put it on a trolley and roll out, needing a small crane. But with a 15 year expected life not a problem.
@vincei4252
2 жыл бұрын
Are you in a colder climate?
@SeanBZA
2 жыл бұрын
@@vincei4252 Nope, just in a country where stuff that is not stuck in a massive concrete block will be stolen, especially battery packs.
@idooggoodi
2 жыл бұрын
Great video as always. You may also need some insulation for your warm water pipes. You can save up to 30% energy.
@ericl5973
2 жыл бұрын
I have the 12kw version of that inverter. It has an auto transformer built in to provide a neutral output in a split phase system. When running in transfer switch mode, it has quite a bit of idle current flowing into the unit (~3A). I took some power measurements and it appears to have a large capacitive load inside the unit given the leading current when I looked. Unless you are running a lot of inductive loads on the inverter, the power factor seems to be pretty awful (PF ~ 0.44 with 500w of computer/networking equipment load) when running as a transfer switch.
@johnkelly7264
Жыл бұрын
Can you pls tell us the name of the 3rd party app you found for talking to the battery BMS.
@danielegger6460
2 жыл бұрын
Very nice electrical setup. But dude, what's up with the plumbing? Put some insulation around those pipes to easily save some energy...
@Thesignalpath
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, it is on my list to fix. :)
@gabiold
2 жыл бұрын
@@Thesignalpath If it's under/inside the house, that loss still heats the house.
@meganwinters5163
2 жыл бұрын
Great presentation of your setup & this battery 🔋 Just wondering if you've seen the puncture testing videos of these cells here on KZitem. These cells are even safer than traditional Lifepo4 chemistries when punctured or overcharged 😊👍.
@danielgabriel4932
2 жыл бұрын
Do you plan on installing solar panels also for your setup sir? I love to see those also 😀
@Thesignalpath
2 жыл бұрын
Yes, I hope so.
@pufero1
2 жыл бұрын
@@Thesignalpath try jasolar they are good ones whit good price.
@benmodel5745
2 жыл бұрын
Marco Reps and now you as well!
@reps
2 жыл бұрын
😶🌫
@Thesignalpath
2 жыл бұрын
I enjoyed the video! I didn't do a teardown of the inverter, but I may do it in a separate video.
@gabiold
2 жыл бұрын
@@Thesignalpath Marco seems to have better setup 😜, but your battery is bigger. Americans always prefer bigger things. 😂
@GJackie24
2 жыл бұрын
Wow your analysis skills are nothing short of amazing and comprehensive. You examine all aspects of any project. Well done. Did you have a certified electrician mount the inverter and wire the system or are you allowed to do that yourself ? I would guess the transfer switch on the actual breaker panel you would probably need an electrician ? Does this need some sort of inspection as well before you can use it ?
@JerryBiehler
2 жыл бұрын
Generally you are allowed to do your own wiring in your own place in the US
@daffyduck8244
Жыл бұрын
You know why do people always say in case linemen are working on the power lines. I've been an electrician for 40 years and I always assume working on an installation that power must always be present I'm sure lineman who work with 1000's of volts are just as causious as myself. I've sen lineman work on lines and they ground out the conducters onto metal just for that reason to protect themselves.
@xDevscom_EE
2 жыл бұрын
Yay, Sunday TSP :) This battery seems a good match to my 500V 120A Chroma DC load. Do you plan to have solar as well, to go even more off-grid?
@Thesignalpath
2 жыл бұрын
I am thinking about getting some solar panels. :)
@xDevscom_EE
2 жыл бұрын
@@Thesignalpath looking forward for Part 2 then :). My lab power consumption is about 1700 kWh per month in winter (if one to trust power utilities monitoring data) and about 2600-2900 kWh in hot summer here, so half wasted on HVAC to keep ppms at prescribed +23C. Calibrators, resistance stuff, standards, 3458s are always 24/7/364 on, logging data.
@JD-xo3xz
Жыл бұрын
Just a quick followup, did you ever get to the BT antenna and route it outside the case? Also how has the battery been running? Any firmware updates needed?
@zaprodk
2 жыл бұрын
Shariar, you don't want to have balancing running all the time - it wears down the cells and wastes unnecessary power. Only enable top-balancing.
@googacct
2 жыл бұрын
Nice demonstration. I have a similar DIY setup, but using 24V instead of 48V. What is the track you are using for routing your wiring?
@logmeindog
2 жыл бұрын
Looks like an easy setup. I use LiFePO4 batteries in my motorcycles and they've really worked great. Much safer than LiPO or Li-ion, which is what you want when it is in your car or in your house.
@vincei4252
2 жыл бұрын
Which brand of LifeP04 batteries are rated for vehicular vibration and low temperature charging? Charging them below 0C is guaranteed to reduce their lifetime. Well, unless you live in a warmer climate.
@bzuidgeest
2 жыл бұрын
I though electric motor cycles where still very much impractical. To little room for batteries so to little range. No doubt incredible fast too .
@logmeindog
2 жыл бұрын
@@vincei4252 I've used Battery Tender LiFePO4 batteries in the past but now use Shorai LiFePO4 batteries exclusively. They are used in motocross, which is pretty ruff stuff. When it is cold out, I turn the headlight on for a few minutes before starting. That warms the battery up enough to ensure a full power start. After that, the charging of the the battery keeps the temperature above ambient. It would be an interesting test with a temp probe to record battery temps but I rarely ride or charge when it is cold out.
@logmeindog
2 жыл бұрын
@@bzuidgeest My motorcycles are gas. Where I live electric mopeds and ebikes have really taken off. Gets you to and from work easily. Some of the nicer ones are using LiFePO4 now. I've talked to people who complain that their Li-Po powered electric scooters do suffer performance loss when cold but haven't heard anything from the Li-ion or LiFePO4 folks.
@bzuidgeest
2 жыл бұрын
@@logmeindog you have me confused, that is not how your original comment reads. Maybe you meant for accessories.
@ericklein5097
Жыл бұрын
So they advertise a 150A continuous discharge BMS but according to the app its a 200A BMS...
@xntumrfo9ivrnwf
2 жыл бұрын
Wait, why did you need to put the BMS in sleep mode before connecting the electronic load? I assume you would start with a very high R load and slowly ratchet it up to low R / high current.
@ebrombaugh
2 жыл бұрын
I wonder if you could use an ESP32 with the Bluetooth BMS info to DIY a standardized BMS interface?
@xntumrfo9ivrnwf
2 жыл бұрын
I'm sure there are already numerous great projects along these lines (i.e. ESP32 or equiv.). The Home Assistant community is huge and they've implemented almost any device you can think of (especially for energy monitoring)
@OctavMandru
2 жыл бұрын
Hy, I'm hoping there's some sort if automatic switch over for times you are out of thr house
@xntumrfo9ivrnwf
2 жыл бұрын
I didn't quite understand why the waveform used to charge the battery is so ugly - is that just a downside of the inverter?
@tinfever
2 жыл бұрын
Regarding the inability to monitor low currents, do you think they wrote the firmware that way to hide the swing-to-zero limitation of any current sense amplifier they might be using? Even if they could calibrate the zero point by taking a measurement with the output MOSFETs disabled, that wouldn't help since it isn't an offset error over the whole scale.
@jaro6985
2 жыл бұрын
Its fuzzing the data to make the interface cleaner, as they are doing with the balance voltages. But yeah swing to ground might be around 0.5A depending on what current sense amplifier and shunt they are using.
@vincei4252
2 жыл бұрын
It could also be done to hide the current draw of the inverter (any inverter, really) I have that exact same Growatt inverter (that I no longer use) and if I remember correctly it pulls over 150W in idle which was unacceptable based on the size of the battery bank I had at the time. Also TSP points out the fans are loud. He hasn't heard anything yet! Try drawing a hand full of kilowatts through that Growatt 6000 and it'll sound like a jet engine - fans are a consumable for this model. I had other issues with it and took the loss and replaced it after 2 weeks with something more suited to my usecase. Oh, and also truncating the millivolts from the battery cell display would also stop questions about the battery balance - that is important information but it's good to see you can get it in a third party app.
@gabiold
2 жыл бұрын
@@vincei4252 150W loss at idle is unacceptable whatever battery pack you have. The problem is that typically you don't need 6kW, but 600W at max, but you still have to size the inverter for peak load. I think, if someone not just retrofits an old wiring but willing to make some rearrangement, it would be beneficial to have a low power network with a low loss inverter for those loads, like that furnance, refrigerators, lighting. Then a high load network with a bigger one which would not operate all the time, but only when needed for big loads, like electric ovens/cooking plates, washing machines, such. This level of automation would need specifically designed inverters though.
@TheBackyardChemist
2 жыл бұрын
How does this solution compare to UPS units marketed for rack server use, from EATON, APC, etc.?
@AndyFletcherX31
2 жыл бұрын
If you want to build your own battery pack LiFePO4 cells are fairly cheap. I recently got 16 x 280AH EVE cells for about £1900 inc VAT etc. delivered to the UK from China. Adding an enclosure to compress the cells and a BMS the whole thing comes out at less than £3,000. Just be careful with short circuits and make sure you have a good breaker as close to the cells as possible as these cells have an internal resistance of 0.17milliohm meaning the pack can deliver peak currents well in excess of 10KA.
@paulpaulzadeh6172
2 жыл бұрын
What is the efficiency of converter? What happen if battery get fire ??
@yaghiyahbrenner8902
2 жыл бұрын
why does some power inverters use a boost converters and others transformers ?
@wva5089
2 жыл бұрын
What wire management trays are you using? And what's your line switch? An imo?
@SirBunghole
2 жыл бұрын
Given the inverter can accomodate really poor quality inputs, I assume that even a cheap gas powered generator that produces basically a square wave could be used to top up the batteries in an emergency.
@Thesignalpath
2 жыл бұрын
As long as the current/voltage are respected, it looks like you can charge this battery with even terrible AC current waveforms.
@VeryokayDIY
2 жыл бұрын
Its interesting, I think even cheap gas generators doing prefect sine wave as having three phase geberators inside. Probalby the frequency stability and voltage regulator can be a problem however.
@gacherumburu9958
2 жыл бұрын
👍👍
@lennywintfeld924
2 жыл бұрын
How do the economics of this compare to a similar capacity permanently installed natural gas genset?
@gabiold
2 жыл бұрын
I can't answer you that, but this kind of setup has a potential to charge the battery with PV, in which case it is just uncomparable. The natural gas prices (at least in the EU) are pretty much became ridiculous, so here, gas-operated generators are the last you want, that's for sure! You are lucky if you can even afford heating your house during the winter.
@lennywintfeld924
2 жыл бұрын
@@gabiold Wow, I hope the situation will change for the better for you in EU. Here in NJ, USA I switched to natural gas from Nr. 2 oil for home heating around 11-12 years ago. The cost of the new equipment was paid for in around 4 years with the lower cost of gas. That's why I thought a gas genset might be a better choice than a battery backup system (and I think the gas would continue to flow when a battery charge would be gone).
@gabiold
2 жыл бұрын
@@lennywintfeld924 Yeah, here most people invested in natural gas staring in the early-middle '90s, it was the cheapest energy carrier until these political f**k ups. We get government support up to the average consumption, which is nice. The problem is that the average is calculated in a way that most people will fall out, because all the endpoints added up, incuding temporary homes, like weekend houses, endpoints that does not even use gas for heating (maybe just for cooking), or at all. The unsupported price (in this country) is somewhere 6-7 times higher than the supported one so if you fall out for example by just 300 m3, which is not much, you'll pay roughly 3 times more in the whole winter season. Many family is speculating, a lot of people (trying to) switch back to wood, but the wood prices doubled since March this year, and this won't end. For comparison, the wood price was roughly on par with natural gas prices (price/MJ, +/-30% due to different woods), but only when you can have dried out wood. Now, there isn't even enough wood to meet the abrupt change in demand, the fresh cut is not dry, so you'll get 50% of heat out if you burn it in this winter, and the prices are double now... So it can, and, in my opinion, will reach the unsupported natural gas price by the start of the heating season. Electricity prices are gone up as well (doubled), but for comparison, the unsupported gas price is as high that you can feel free to heat with electricity when you reach that level of consumption. The only option I see that might be cheaper is heat pump heating, geothermal or air->fluid kind, but the initial investment is just beyond the capabilities of the most. And heat insulation too, that's the cheapest "heating" so far. Yeah, of course, the building material prices also climbing and climbing since the onset of COVID, they'll give quotes with validity date for one day now...
@markwyman2912
2 жыл бұрын
What about EMP's
@Larry-pu3wz
10 ай бұрын
I had 3 of these b.atteries until 2 of them failed. After 4 months they were still not working and not replaced. While I was packing them up to send back to Bigbattery the 3rd battery started smoking and burst into flames burning down my shed and everything in it. BigBattery won't respond to my emails to discuss a resolution.Buyer beware.
@JustinAlexanderBell
2 жыл бұрын
0:07 Cat!
@largepimping
2 жыл бұрын
Really curious if you considered rack-mount battery options such as EG4 sold by Signature Solar or SOK sold by Current Connected. If so, would be very interested in hearing your thought process. Cost (obviously) isn't everything, but the Big Battery Rhino is about $480/kWH while the others are around $350. I'm ignoring shipping because some of the sellers make you (in effect) register before they'll calc that for you.
@zaprodk
2 жыл бұрын
Clearly a JBD (Jiabaida) BMS with this LCD panel and that terrible spelling mistake "NOMAL" - I wonder how they didn't fix this after years. I guess they simple don't care at all.
@diavalus
2 жыл бұрын
Glad someone else mentioned this
@NoahFect
2 жыл бұрын
@@diavalus No kidding. Attention to detail is one of the things I'd look for when adding 14 kWh worth of lithium batteries to my house. That embedded BMS is just embarrassing.
@jetfu400
2 жыл бұрын
do you have solar?
@Thesignalpath
2 жыл бұрын
Not yet, hopefully I'll get one in the future.
@tamaseduard5145
2 жыл бұрын
👍💖🙏
@hzmeister9596
2 жыл бұрын
This is all nice and everything but for the ~8k+ you spent on this you could have gotten double the capacity in deep cycle lead acid batteries(you have the space for it), a bunch of solar panels, and a NG standby generator. Not really sure the cost/benefit of this kind of home backup power makes sense here.
@christopherscholz
2 жыл бұрын
This is a little more complicated: lead acid batteries don’t last nearly as long as Lithium Ion batteries. But then gets 98% or so recycled. LiB recycling doesn’t exist to date, only second-life. So depending on the use case, maintenance and your environmental philosophy, you might choose one chemistry or the other. It’s great to have choices!
@bzuidgeest
2 жыл бұрын
That is with the current price reduction a 6000 plus dollar battery. Nice and all, but still not economical. I live in the Netherlands and we just don't have any grid power failures and electricity is cheap. (Getting more expensive sure to Ukraine war). The battery is twice the price of the average solar installation at least. We can supply surplus solar back to the grid and retrieve it later. I would like such a battery, but the price is far too high to be interesting. I also prefer solution on the community level where you have economies of scale and can use chemistry or systems with a larger physical footprint. Every house replication the same inverters and batteries and other infrastructure just isn't very green.
@gabiold
2 жыл бұрын
Does the power company buys/sells the energy in 1:1 ratio there? In Hungary it is quite a different story...
@bzuidgeest
2 жыл бұрын
@@gabiold for the moment the do. But this might change.
@paulpaulzadeh6172
2 жыл бұрын
I live 40 years in Sweden, never, never get main power down
@2xKTfc
2 жыл бұрын
My home insurance would get heart palpitations seeing a room like your lab, until they remember that it's wayyy over the coverage limit and not their problem unless it's discussed with them.
@bzuidgeest
2 жыл бұрын
I would expect he has extra coverage for that.
@bzuidgeest
2 жыл бұрын
Why the 240v? I thought you where in the US which is mostly 110? Is it just for a few high watt appliances.
@Thesignalpath
2 жыл бұрын
It gives me 2x120V. US households are actually provided with 240V and a neutral. So half the outlets and appliances are one phase and the other half are on the other phase.
@bzuidgeest
2 жыл бұрын
@@Thesignalpath Houses in the Netherlands are supplied under normal circumstances with 3 phases of 220v and neutral. But we still refer to it as a 220v system, the voltage at the socket. Not the combined voltage. Phases are only combined for heavy users like electric cooking. So that had me confused.
@christopherscholz
2 жыл бұрын
@@bzuidgeest single phase 240V typically 200 A. Transformes have a central tap which makes it effectively two phase 120 V. The geographic dimensions in the US are very different than in a small country like the Netherlands. What works for the Netherlands is not necessarily good for us and vice versa.
@bzuidgeest
2 жыл бұрын
@@christopherscholz no argument there. US geography is very much different, hence why you still have above ground power transport to houses. Which we consider old fashioned. But with much more rocky soil might be needed. What i am asking about is that almost everyone I know talks about the mains voltage as the single phase voltage. 110 for US, 220 for almost all the rest of the world. Tsp is the first American i have heard that refers to mains voltage as 220. Referring to both phases at once. Maybe not technically wrong but still strange. And I do know some US households use the 240 for charging cars and high power appliances. But those are more or less single socket uses.
@christopherscholz
2 жыл бұрын
@@bzuidgeest It’s nominally 240 VRMS. The amount by which the actual voltage can differ from the nominal voltage is defined by the power quality standard that is applicable in your specific jurisdiction. Sure you can live in a neighborhood with underground electric power in the US. For most of us this is not the most important aspect when we choose the place we want to live.
@smbrown
2 жыл бұрын
4AWG or 4/0, looks more like latter to me.
@nxt-1
2 жыл бұрын
Is it me or is Pooch getting a bald spot above his/her(?) right eye?
@Thesignalpath
2 жыл бұрын
He always looked like that. If you look straight at his ear, his hair is so straight that you can see his skin!
@bzuidgeest
2 жыл бұрын
Many cats have thinner hair under their ears. In the direction of the eyes. I guess having less hair in you ears is better for hearing😀
@Dextermorga
2 жыл бұрын
240V and 400V welcome to Europe 😎
@valvemonky4734
2 жыл бұрын
is it only Europe that have these voltages ?
@SeanBZA
2 жыл бұрын
@@valvemonky4734 No, most of the planet, not many countries that use the US voltages. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_electricity_by_country is a good place to start.
@bzuidgeest
2 жыл бұрын
@@valvemonky4734 no, most of the world uses 220v but the US/both America and Japan are mostly 110v volt though both have 240v by combinations of multiple phases and use that like we would use 400v. As usual the US and it's neighbors are a little backwards on these things. No proper use of SI units and halve the voltage almost everyone else has. If you want to know more Wikipedia has as nice chart showing Mains voltage by county for the entire world. Also frequency.
@WisseSpring
2 жыл бұрын
He mentions 240 V split-phase, meaning 120 V per phase, and the frequency displayed on the inverter is 60 Hz. The wall plugs are also obviously "American".
@vincei4252
2 жыл бұрын
@@valvemonky4734 Nigeria has 3 phase 240V power. The only problem is keeping the power on 🙂
@chuxxsss
2 жыл бұрын
Change your password. So others cannot just use a third party app to change things. Like at a caravan park. You did it the easy way. From a former Calibration Technician.
Пікірлер: 118